on liberalism for the liberal

Discussion in 'World Events' started by SwedishFish, May 7, 2003.

  1. SwedishFish Conspirator Registered Senior Member

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    a particular person i know claims she is a liberal. yet when she states an opinion, it raises more than a few eyebrows. from what she says, it would seem that she's far from liberal. so is it better that she at least says she's associated with liberalism or worse because she's lying?

    the opinions are along the lines of hating jews, being gung ho about hitting kids, thinking that any sort of genetic disorder is a result of stupid people breeding, anyone with problems (such as poverty, disease, lack of eduation, etc...) have only themselves to blame.

    she also claims to be a vegetarian yet buys 2 boxes of fish sticks at a time, but that's besides the point.
     
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  3. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    I don't think "liberal" means what she thinks it means...
     
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  5. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Lawn clippings

    Maybe it's one of those perverse things people do for pride. I know plenty of "vegetarians" who eat animal products. People want to think of themselves as something even though they don't want to be it. With enough of a cultural convention, the compromise becomes the new definition.

    I'm mostly used to the process in the opposite direction, someone trying to identify away from something. I remember distinctly two conversations, both of which ended in people being upset at me for calling them greedy. In both cases, the only question in the air was the idea of whether or not greed was a good or bad thing. In both cases, that question was resolved by a negative reaction to the idea of being called greedy.

    But it was simple to me; everything they were talking about had to do with money. I still want an explanation of how an Afghani under the Taleban could afford to pack up and get a flat in Chicago or, more realistically, Canby, Oregon or some other suburban someplace. (The idea that if a poor man doesn't like his lot in life, he should do what he cannot afford to do.) I still want an explanation of why a bowl of rice makes an Afghani man a rich man. (The idea that it would be unfair to introduce a strong economy into Afghanistan suddenly because it would be cruel to the people; how do we know what that relative wage figure buys? If it's enough to have a bowl of rice every day, there's nothing to worry about ....) In both cases, the people I was discussing the ideas with leaned toward money having a higher priority of people. And when asked situationally, they acknowledged it. And yet, knowing that this was a part of greed, they suddenly moved to resentment at being associated with something they found negative. Hey: Your money is more important to you than people. That's a pretty good start on being greedy.

    You know, one of them is the person who told me, in response to American companies taking heat for child labor in Nepal, "People should be thankful; at least those children have the opportunity to support their families." Sometimes I think he was trying on new philosophies for size. Mostly I hope that's what was going on.

    But people don't like to be seen as greedy or selfish, even though they'll talk freely about how important money is, and tell you how they're only looking out for number one.

    And yet they're afraid of the idea. It can't possibly be me. Consider two ideas:

    - It's not that I'm selfish, but ....
    - What? I'm feeling rather selfish right now ....

    I'm given to confessing the second quite frequently; seriously, some days I just don't want to give the guy a dollar. Especially in these days when my economic power is secondary. But how many times do you hear someone say, It's not that I'm selfish, but ...? How many times have you sprained your eyes rolling them in reflexive response to the horsepucky tsunami that you know is coming?

    Look at Americans during these warring times. People will do anything to avoid admitting what they all know. It's not that they're stupid

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    but that they simply don't want to deal with their own consciences. Or something like that. Any day of the week: Truth, Justice, and the American Way. And when it's time to give those things instead of talk them? It's not that I don't care, but .... Or, It's not that I advocate war crimes, but ....

    You should see my front lawn. It's not that I'm lazy, but .... (Actually, that's only a half-pucky; my family instructed me to not buy a lawn mower since we have several that aren't being used--extended family considered, as well; my dad's not a lawn-mower freak like he was a boat freak. Strangely, they can't get it up here, and I'll be damned if I'm taking a neighbor's lawn mower over this lawn. I'll wreck one donated from the family for its lack of necessity, but I'm imagining my neighbors need theirs. In the end, who am I kidding? I hate mowing the lawn, anyway; always have, always will ....)

    The bottom line is that it's very possibly a clash between what one knows they are, and what one wishes to be. Perhaps it is an aspiration, and not entirely a self-deception.

    :m:,
    Tiassa

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  7. SLWK Registered Member

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    It is interesting that the word "liberal" in politics has a different meaning in the US from the rest of the world - Britain, Australia, etc. In fact I think it is the opposite. "Liberal" in Australia is akin to "Conservative" in America.

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