I dont really have the time to research these, and Im not asking anyone to, but If you know some answers off the top of your head, or want to speculate on what a good answer would be, please feel free to add an answer, thanx Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Middle Eastern OPEC countries make so much cash of oil, how much goes to help those who need it in Palestine? If the US didnt need oil, how would the Middle East be different? - a) Would Israel be supported by the US? - b) Wouldn't the Arab countries be much poorer than they are today without the revenue from oil, I know for example Saudi Arabia gets a large part of its fresh water from expensive desalinazation plants paid for from oil, so would an absence of oil make said countries more of a third world country? i dont mean any, disrespect(?), but am trying to be ask as neutrally and be as PC as possible, so yeah =)
America is manipulated by Israel, and has no critical reliance on mideastern oil. Most Arab governments are corrupt, tenuous, and divided- but their assistance to Palestinians is tangible. but it doesn't do the average Palestinian a lot of good. This aid is mostly canceled out by the continuous and planned disruption and destruction of Palestinian infrastructure and society by Israel. The PA depends utterly on foreign aid, to the tune of about 75% of the budget. Saudi provides the PA about $7.7 million monthly, and Arab states combined about $55 million. With corruption and conflict with Israel, it's pretty murky. The EU provides also provides aid to the PA, while the US provides none- and even applies pressure to stop such aid. There is deep controversy swirling around leaking of foreign aid to the PA into terrorist retaliations- But if a diversion of funds was one billionth of what the Israeli government claims (and has been caught forging documents about), then suicide belts would be costing several million dollars a copy.
if israel has such power on the US, why didnt Lieberman/Gore get more than 50% vote? Why isnt the KKK outlawed? Can i see some solid proof on Jewish dominance because right now im still an unbeliever. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
hardly anything unless its to organizations that benefit them on a high level . But this amount is quite miniscule . The money goes to the regimes , for instance in Saudi Arabia , where Fahd uses it to fly his possesions around all day to monaco and back . Or Bin Tawal who plays around with companies and get even richer , sometimes something is been done for the people , but ofcourse this is nothing compared to what goes in the pockets of crazy regimes . Yes , because of the immense Jewish influence within the USA media-finance/economy-politics . But ofcourse helping Israel would become less attracitve economically , but as long as the jews own economics they can find something profitable for the USA if that would be necesary . Saudi Arabia already is inhabited by 35% foreigners , its own popualtion when not into oil is quite poor , and the surrounding Arab countries already benefit little from oil as small oil-states like qatar , uae , kuweit with billionaire sheiks make sure all remains where it is . I think the corruption is so depressing , that if there would no longer be oil , structly finacially speaking , the people of Arabia wouldnt even notice it . Arab countries that are not oil states have an extreme gap between the very richest and the very poor majority ,in the oil states a great ammount of its population is foreign , and the billionaire oil-sheiks are in charge of the wealths . Ive pointed this out many times . You will have to do research yourself , but only at a first glane it is obvious the Jews own the public opinion(hollywood+media) , they are an amazing and quite scaring owners of the $ , and their political involvement in the bush administrations (especially on foreign policy) is great . I have written pages and pages on all this crap , just dig up some threads and you'll find more evidence , do some research yourself , and most importantly do not underestimate the effect capitalism has on this whole matter . Its not JUST the Jews , its their friends who are beneficious with them that hold them up . As for the democrats , I dont think there's such a big difference between those two parties . Im sure whoever supported Lieberman , in the end supports Bush as well as the motivations/goals are the same . Dont think that the democrats would have handled anything any different , especially when it comes to Israel . Lets face it , that 2-party democracy you got going on is a joke . As for the KKK not being outlawed is quite logical . It is for authority much more benficious to leave them be rather than ban them out . The americans uphold some dream society , that dream society is supported by their government , I dont think that people would be happy if the freedom of speech will be banned , even when its about KKK . Now as far as KK goes , the only reason would be an ideological one (they hate jews) , but isnt that shortsighted . Who cares if they hate jews , are they a threat to jews ? Id say there a bigger threat to blacks than jews , and besides they're a powerless joke , they bother nobody who matters ........why would one correct a problem that isnt there by neglecting or ignoring some fundamental rights the peoples of America feel much for ? I wouldnt ban kkk either , its not worth it .
Carnuth: "Can i see some solid proof on Jewish dominance because right now im still an unbeliever. "Don't you understand? We control America. We know it and they know it." -Ariel Sharon Electronic Intifada's Israel Lobby Watch
That quote by Sharon is bogus. It's sure hard to counter allegations that are simply made up. http://world.std.com/~camera/docs/alert/geyer2.html
Radio Kol Yisrael reported the remark, and it has not been retracted by them as far as I have looked into it. The remark to Shimon Peres was an off-microphone aside, and we may never exactly what was said. Perhaps you are right, and Sharon never uttered anything to this effect, although it would be perfectly in character. It is also much in character for any slip-up in Israeli rhetoric toward the US to be swiftly mopped up. I'll concede the quote is hard to verify. Evidence that Israel confidently wields spectacular influence in Washington remains, nevertheless, overwhelming.
(sigh) Spectacular-(spek-tah-kyu-ler) adj. Of the nature of a spectacle; impressive or sensational. I would prefer to address the issue, even if we have drifted from the question about oil, and not semantics and sources- not that the two are not important - but to attack someone's opinions solely on these points is more aggression than dialogue. The point I was trying to make is America's involvements in the middle east are spurred more by the pro-Israeli lobby than by a dire need for Arab oil. There are a myriad of indicators that Israel holds the most powerful foreign lobby in Washington. This is not to whisper conspiratorially that an evil Jewish plot is secretly and illegally undermining[/url] American democracy. My point is that the pro-Israeli lobby works extremely strenuously and effectively in influencing American foreign policy. It is for Americans to decide if this is in their interest. For those who conclude that what's good for Israel isn't always good for the United States, political action is required, including pointing out disproportionate access and influence in high places by the pro-Israel lobby. For an example of effective methods, one can look at a communications manual for lobbyists for Israel. For an example of the successes of Israeli lobby groups, one can regard some trophies. One can observe that many pretenders to leadership, like George W, Al Gore, Bill Frist, Joe Lieberman, John Edwards, et al must be strongly pro-Israeli to have any chance at nomination. From garnering aid to endorsing candidates, the Israeli influence in American politics is truly spectacular.
Shocking & awesome. Took me back to the last time I was punked meself. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Returning from "Gerry(atric) Springer" to our regularly-scheduled thread: Carnuth: "If the US didnt need oil, how would the Middle East be different? - a) Would Israel be supported by the US? This is a very good question, because the contradiction between US oil/economic interests and support for Israel may reveal something important. If someone can make the logical argument why supporting Israel has been good for US energy and business I would like to hear it. I would be interested in looking into other explanations for why America rarely says "no", and rarely issues any demands or even suggestions toward an extremely controversial country that is receiving 1/3 of all American foreign aid, including our largest exports of WMDs. I offer that Israel is more important to American governments than oil. I believe the "special relationship" exists on many levels, including the basest political and religious ones. I also believe that because of Israel's dependence on the US, the keys to mideast peace, or at least relative peace, have always been in Washington, but no leadership has had the courage to pick up the keys against objections of the most hard-line elements in Israel. I want to know what scares American leaders so badly, that Israel is neither publicly criticised, nor quietly instructed. Maybe Kim Jong Il is a comparitively amatuer and obvious player of nuclear poker- I just don't get it. This is not an appeal for wild conspiracy theories- I want to know what has America transfixed. I think that for any US leader, once provided with access to intel for a while, must understand that there is a readily-available alternative to the status quo, not involving a single Jew being pushed into the sea. Israel can be commanded tomorrow by the United States to end apartheid and humiliation of the Palestinians, to return to her 1967 borders, and to allow shared custody of Jerusalem. With less confusion and controversy than the occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq, security could be arranged, and the Arab world could do little but hail Operation Palestinian Freedom. But it is not to be, because there is something else I don't understand. I want to know what it is that keeps every American administraion locked in this unparalleled embrace with the most hard-line zionists in Israel.
Wait a few decades to find out. All the worlds oil will depleted in 70 years. We are using Arabian oil first so imagine that it will gone in less time. Ethiopia is a pretty good model for what the Middle East would look like. A lack of arable lands and nothing to trade for food, starvation and irrelevancy. Israel is a good lightning rod. Probably even without the oil it would probably garner money from Jewish U.S. citizens as that is where it comes from now. Zionists are motivated by religion and not oil so that probably wouldn't change.
Actually they are but not that way . The are motivated by religion negativity . Their positive (what they believe in ) motivation is nationalism . They hated their religion , and its secularity that actually holds the key positions within the almight $ . Hey fraggle...........dont u feel the need to punk him too ?
Hypers: I can't take too much exception to the facts in your first post back to me, though I disagree about such terms as "disproportionate" influence. The fact is, the Israeli lobby acts much as any other lobby. If they are successful, then good for them. If, as I suspect, Israel's interests are close enough to the US's that it makes their job easier, so much the better. I'm glad that you declare that you don't consider there to be a secret Jewish cabal. That right away puts you ahead of some of these posters here, in my book. I find it odd, as well, that anyone could look at a bunch of "shrinking violets" such as Don Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, Colin Powell, or even Bush and say these are guys who cower under the mighty influence of the Jews. I completely disagree, however, that the government makes no demands on Israel, considering that much of their defense against the Palestinians has been micromanaged, including incursions into PA areas that were foreshortened because of American influence, arm twisting regarding this new "road map," their acquiesence in the face of scud attacks a decade ago, and even the manipulation of the election that put Barak in office. Any country that receives US aid has to dance the dance and Israel is hardly an exception.
I'm glad that you declare that you don't consider there to be a secret Jewish cabal (alanh) if it is secret, how would anyone but the conspirators know about it? tho i do not assert that any cabals do or do not exist, it seems plausible that there might be one, a few or many. it is human nature to band together if common objectives exist. if involved it the politics of the m.e and zionism. it would seem to me that it would be advantageous to conspire. i am sometimes mystified why some appear to blindly deny any conspiracy. those that do talk about it are automatically labeled "kooks", which in turn implies that the sane do not conspire so alanh.... tell me how you know there are no "jewish cabals"? why is it impossible that within aipac, there could be a few prominent thinkers that get together on the golf course and conspire? what criteria would you use in your definition of a cabal? secret handshake? profane rituals? virgin sacrifice? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Spookz: sure, there are conspiracies, but human nature makes it so that they tend to be small, given people's propensity to talk. To say that there is a worldwide conspiracy of Jews, or of any other people, is indeed insane, particularly given the tendency of Jews to discuss and argue everything under the sun. You also partially answer your own question when you say that if it's so secret, how is it that the only people who know about it are the worst enemies of the Jews?
Spookz: sure, there are conspiracies, but human nature makes it so that they tend to be small, i agree. small enough to include the president, his inner circle, a few select policy wonks. they sit in the whitehouse and conspire a war. (ignore the congress, bullshit the citizens, manufacture evidence, fake documents.....blah) worldwide is unneccessary (what is that anyway? timbuktoo? bangladesh?). you only need a few well placed influential individuals. how is it that the only people who know about it are the worst enemies of the Jews? friends do not typically go around diggin up dirt on them. that job is left to their enemies (i dont buy the protocols)
