Is America deluded?

Discussion in 'World Events' started by airavata, May 2, 2003.

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  1. airavata portentous Registered Senior Member

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    am i the only one here who has realised this or what? america by all accounts wants to install a pro-US regime in baghdad. that'll atleast give it some sort of representation in the middle-east, apart from israel. does america really think a pro-US regime can last? we've already seen how much the iraqis don't want america to stay now that saddam has been deposed. a pro-US regime will inevitably be brought down by muslim fundamentalists. syria and iran will always exert some sort of influence on iraq, however small that might be. basically, what i'm trying to say is, in the short run maybe the US will succeed in installing a govt. friendly to it, but in the long run, i feel a govt. hostile to the US will come to power. won't the US be back at square 1 again then?
     
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  3. fadingCaptain are you a robot? Valued Senior Member

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    I think you are right. The populous of Iraq would probably vote a muslim cleric as president, given a free election. A country so religiously fundamental will have a hard being stable unless is ruled by:
    a. an oppressive (to the minority) cleric or
    b. an oppressive (to everyone) dictator.

    Maybe I am wrong, but I don't think the citizens of iraq want the kind of freedom or liberty the US advertises. Of course, we advertise these ideals for our own self-interest...
     
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  5. Jerrek Registered Senior Member

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    I don't know what you "realized."

    Yet another lie. If you care to read a bit, you'll see that the United States wants to create an environment where democratic elections can be held and a new government can be elected by the people. Are you opposed to that or not?

    And why, oh why, would the United States want more representation in the Middle East?

    There you go with that lie again. And you are grossly generalizing. Stop it, it makes you look stupid. The United States government and a lot of people, including me, think that the Iraqis have the ability to elect a government that can last. Do you disagree with the fact that the Iraqis are able to elect a government democratically?

    Yay, and we've also seen tons of pro-U.S. rallies.

    Much like Bahrain?

    And Canada will exert some influence on the United States. What is your point?

    You sound like the Germans. "Millions of civilians will die," "it will be a bloodbath," "millions will flee the country," etc.
     
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  7. Allahs_Mathematics Mar'Ifah Ahl As-Suffah Registered Senior Member

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    So the USA is happy with Iran the second ?
    Or are they willing to accept an Iran the second ?

    Because if you have any knowledge of Iraq , than you know this is what democracy will come up with .

    Not representation , just buddies who run oil according to US needs .
     
  8. Persol I am the great and mighty Zo. Registered Senior Member

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    Originally posted by Jerrek
    Yet another lie. If you care to read a bit, you'll see that the United States wants to create an environment where democratic elections can be held and a new government can be elected by the people. Are you opposed to that or not?
    Jerrek, I have to disagree with you on this one. It is very doubtful that the initial elections are democratic. The US will have influence on the canidates. Some administrators have flat out said that a religious government will not be accepted because it will lead to seperatism.

    And why, oh why, would the United States want more representation in the Middle East?

    Oil and 'security'. Oil may or may not have been an initial reason for war, but it is now. 'Security' basically rests on us making sure that a new Saddam Iraq or Iran forms.

    The United States government and a lot of people, including me, think that the Iraqis have the ability to elect a government that can last. Do you disagree with the fact that the Iraqis are able to elect a government democratically?

    I think they can elect just fine... but the results of the election may be disasterous. Iraq has millitant factions which do not get along at all. One faction would get what they want, and the others would try to take it. We need to make sure that a strong government is initally setup to prevent certain dangers when re-election time comes. The initial government is going to be pro-US in that we gave them control of a country.

    Yay, and we've also seen tons of pro-U.S. rallies.

    I'm waiting for a Gallop poll of Iraqis

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    And Canada will exert some influence on the United States. What is your point?

    I think the point is that the other countries want a strong muslim fundamentalist government in Iraq, and they could be successful in achieving that goal depending on how we leave Iraq.

    As long as we are there, we should set it up 'right' before handing it over.
     
  9. Carnuth i dont Registered Senior Member

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    I am an American, I do not invade countries, I do not support the invasion of countries, I do not support personal vendettas by insane presidents.

    However, it is much better that the war ousted Saddam, and I am grateful to the military for doing a superb job and limiting civilian casualties.

    I do support the peace rallies in Washington, New York, Paris, London, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Tokyo, Rome, and Chicago to name a few. I dont appreciate how it seems all anti-american sentiment is aimed at the American people and not the dictator who is in power. Wait till the next election to judge my country.
     
  10. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    Iraqis are speaking clearly: "Thanks. Now get out."

    Americans are speaking nonsense: "We're Number One! Be free! Stop that! Pay up! Shut up! Leave Israel Alone! Don't mess with us either! Who's next? We're broke, and it's Your Fault! Git Some!"

    Yes, America is dangerously deluded. There is a limited time remaining to avoid a geopolitical train wreck. America is on a collision course with a larger majority in the world, who are prepared to actively take down our globally-dependent economy, if we persist in arrogant stealth colonialism.
     
  11. Allahs_Mathematics Mar'Ifah Ahl As-Suffah Registered Senior Member

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    like the people want , right ?
    Or ios it that they just dont know your democratic values , perhaps you should bring wallmart and macdonalds and learn them how wonderfull they are ?

    Only ones wanting that are the Shiaa of Iraq (60%) and Iran .
    In other words , the people .

    Oh u mean isntall a non-democratic elected regime that holds down the Shiaa 960%) by force , perhaps u need someone from Tikrit ?

    guilty , next american please .
     
  12. Carnuth i dont Registered Senior Member

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    guilty? i didnt get my trial - you know, trial...
     
  13. Clockwood You Forgot Poland Registered Senior Member

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    Is America deluded? Yes but far less so than the fanatics in most middle eastern countries.

    Everyone (except possibly god) is deluded to some extent.
     
  14. Allahs_Mathematics Mar'Ifah Ahl As-Suffah Registered Senior Member

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    no i dont , trained by cia u see (u know,cia.....) .

    so............guilty , next american please .

    next american :
    guilty , next ameriCan please

    bunch of words & identity hijackers !!

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  15. Clockwood You Forgot Poland Registered Senior Member

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    Speaking of fanatic, look up one post.
     
  16. Carnuth i dont Registered Senior Member

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    well, as long as all 270 million americans are guilty, id like to bring to light that 99% of Americans are or are descended from immigrants.
     
  17. Allahs_Mathematics Mar'Ifah Ahl As-Suffah Registered Senior Member

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    this guy seems like a confused person

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    elaborate please , what are you aiming at . Who's the Americans and wherefrom are the Immigrants .

    If Id take the first , and u speak of 270 M , ud be talking about USA ? And the immigrants would be.....Euro's ?

    If thats what ur saying , ur such a confused man , all i gotta say is DUH .

    bliblibliblibli
    wiliwiliwiliwili
    uhuhuhuhuhu

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    whats your point mister ?
    and guilty of what , do u know what Im talking about .

    But to be sure , no not 99% is guilty , Id say about 70-80% , perhaps a bit more , perhaps a bit less , Id have to calculate matters , but trust me their guilt doesnt depend on the fact weither they are immigrants , not even from where they have migrated , although it does give a nice picture of things .

    me , AGAIN ? Hey man , stop using all those complicated word without knwoing they're reasonable meaning . Or ofcourse ur using the "common" one , but in that case hey.....Im more than that man , Im extremist , anti-semite , racist , terrorist and what not ....fanatic seems so "of low value" wouldnt u say ? i like terrorist the best

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  18. Carnuth i dont Registered Senior Member

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    presuming you mean guilty of being deluded as the topic says?

    my point is this: Euros, Asians, Latins, Africans- thats a lot more than just Euros dude, you are generalizing america as the people you dont like, no wonder you talk like you do about america. And when you say Euros, that includes France, Germany, and Russia to an enourmous extent! Opponents of the war! What did Asians do? Latins? Africans? The Anglo-Saxon white population you speak of falls very short of 80%. How do all these different people give you a clear picture of anything? You know those polls you see? What are you basing any of this on anyways?

    Going off topic, I live in a community of both Muslims and Jews, and guess what! We actually get along. You see me as pro-israel no doubt, and well, im not. Unlike you I have the strange ability to see things from both sides with minimal if any bias, it comes from being the family moderator for 20 years. Israel is wrong in many ways, but blowing yourselves and other people up to make a point is counterproductive.

    Try to think of Americans as more than one person, just try, you might be surprised at the results.
     
  19. airavata portentous Registered Senior Member

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    jerrek, you seem opposed to any idea that a non pro-USian might have. notall of us are as pro-US as you.
    for lack of anything to say, don't just spew out stuff that takes up space.

    gee man, you must be the only person on this earth who implicitly believes everything bush and co. say. i'm far too realistic to accept that. you mean to say that the US doesn't want a pro-US regime in baghdad? you mean to say after annexing iraq america will just say ''let the people choose whom they want'', and leave iraq alone?

    ummm.. probably because it dosen't want any more nations harbouring islamic terrorists than there already are. the US honestly dosen't want some sort of presence in the middle east?

    there is no doubt that the iraqis can elect their own govt. freely and democratically. but i have difficulty believing that the US has no alterior motives in iraq. will the US really allow an anti US muslim fundamentalist govt. come to power? ask yourself that question.

    so the iraqis want the maericans to stay in iraq? after killing 13 unarmed iraqis? maybe you see only the pro US stuff jerrek. it's reflected in your posts as well.

    i don't know. what's your point in making this stupid statement and saying what's your point?:bugeye:

    no.... i'm just reflecting the facts. you think a pro-US govt. will really last in iraq? you think all the muslim fundamentalists will just lie down and allow their country to be ruled by friends of their enemy? what the germans said was exaggeration. this is hard fact. again, all you can see is the american point of view.
     
  20. Allahs_Mathematics Mar'Ifah Ahl As-Suffah Registered Senior Member

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    Asians quite keep things to themselves , while Africans and Hispanics I dont quite call immigrated .
    Now u try to figure out how exacly the classes are within the USA .

    Was anybody speaking about pro or anti war ?
    I surely wasnt

    How surprising . Dont worry Im not talking about those that dont even own a house (clue ! clue!).

    Who's talking about polls , as If i could care for their opinions they mamble

    Great , I actually grew up in a Jewish neighbourhood , I have plenty Jewish friends and acquintences .

    Aslong as I havent heard U about it , I dont consider u anything .

    biased...lol , both sides...oh man u dont know what ur talking about , my whole life has been both sides (I actually know more on Thorah than Qu'ran , how about that?) , as u have no clue about me I suggest u dont draw dumbass conclusions , mister jew-muslim neighbourhood along getter .
    As for Shaheed being productive , as they see it they are productive in the eyes of God , and they are right , because I see it they are producing destruction .

    Its not production one is after with such a final resort as suicide-bombings , its killing yourself just to scare a guy . Im not expecting u to understand such a thing , as I am sure U have never felt terror your whole life . Thats why we export matters , so those who oppress us can feel a bit too . If we're honest to ourselves , all it comes down to is spite because we know we're doomed .

    Sun Tzu Dont let your enemy think he has no chance , because it will make him fight for his life and make you loose the battle

    Its more like one opressor , one opressed and one trying to do something about it . Toobad the actual % arent quite 33-33-33 .
     
  21. Clockwood You Forgot Poland Registered Senior Member

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    Yeah, but America is the one trying to do something about it.
     
  22. Allahs_Mathematics Mar'Ifah Ahl As-Suffah Registered Senior Member

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    Not national nor International .

    But hey....believe whatever you wish

    Oh wait I c u mean one ofn the 3 .
    U misunderstood , as it is one of the 3 within USA I was speaking about . And as u see it , nope they're the opressor , u should study some of the consequences ur country caused .
     
  23. Carnuth i dont Registered Senior Member

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    Hey if you can do it, so can I

    oh and youre right, ive never experienced terror in my life, until 9-11. And as a student with no effect on the government, I feel that yes, my oppression of all those countries brought that on myself. Kill them all and eventually you'll get the guilty ones? Cmon, not even Israel is that deluded.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2003
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