Americans: Do you condemn this Jewish terrorism ?

last night, the Israeli army in Palestine murdered an entire family of six including this 2 years old baby girl, now, do you condemn this jewish terrorism or as ever, you will be HYPOCRITES by trying to find execuses for the israeli killers ???

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for the past few years muslim extremists have killed countless lives in heartless random suicide attacks on innocent civilians without any reasoning besides that they were israelis...try to look at things from both perspectives, both sides are very wrong, and people like you dont want to admit that.

 

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Blaiming the Palestinians for COUNTABLE Israeli deaths is a blaiming the Maya's for one or 2 Spaniards they hit with their TERRORISTIC SPEARS

 

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Wish it didnt happen at all but what were the circumstances? Were they trying to kill someone else and she was an unfortunate casualty or were women and kids the sole targets? Please expand.

 

When ACCIDENTS are 1000X more then ASSAULTS circumstances are far from relevant .

I understand your wish to expand , please do so , but dont stop at X just because X makes it look less worse than it is .

 

Sadly, when terrorists who murder innocent people hide among their own civilians, this is often what happens. That is, of course, if we're getting an accurate representation of what this is a picture of.

 

guilty , next amerikan

Just remember these words of yours when u see the front of a 747 out your office window , u might figure out the laws of cause and effect just like that .

 

You really are an evil bastared, aren't you. We get another thing like that I honestly would not discount salted earth.

 

Math: and if that happens again, what do you think the mood in the US will be for massive retaliation?

 

By my standards

I doubt the Israelis could justify their actions by my standards. And I think all war action is wrong and stupid, and all human violations are wrong and stupid, so let that stand as it may. But in the question of Israeli conduct in the Palestinian issue there is hardly a question to be asked.

The irony of the scale of Israeli human violations in the name of Judaism and politics being juxtaposed against the scale of the Nazi violation is about as useful to me as the notion that the same Christians who fled oppression in Europe sought merely to be the authority in the oppression balance. It's a quaint argumentative point, but I hope to defuse that particular potential vein of argument. (Pre-emptive? Perhaps, but hey, nobody died for my pre-emptive response.

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)

One of the hard things you'll find about the American response is the prevalence of the Judeo-Christian ethic in our history. Our cultural heritage finds its first distinct expressions in Puritanism, and spiritually speaking, things did actually get better before the plunged into The Abyss. As a result, even being raised in the last quarter of the 20th century, even I was taught the presumption of propriety regarding Israel. At Catholic school (age 15-18) we didn't talk much about the foundation of Israel except for a brief mention by, of all people, the Franciscan nun teaching my religion (Christianity) class. It had its effect; I learned of the Palestinian displacement as if it was a dirty secret that, like mom getting herpes from the mailman would be a dirty secret; it's true, but you just don't talk about it. Of course, I was in college before I finally learned the assertion that Europeans on the American continent resulted in the destruction of 95% of the indigenous population of the continent in the early generations. Point being, the blinding comparison didn't seem to strike Americans of my generation (meaning: those last years of children not having the internet) until adulthood, when the prejudices have taken hold as a sense of firm reality. When someone asked the nun in my class why the Palestinians were displaced, she said (with appreciable, matter-of-fact, self-conscious irony), "Because everyone felt bad about the Holocaust, and it seemed like a nice thing to do."

Hell, I got the hint.

Americans learn that time heals all wounds. Thus, if Israel holds the land long enough by whatever means, it's theirs by right. It's why Americans, despite the efforts of portions of our Irish-American community, didn't really give a rat's behind about Northern Ireland until Clinton, seeking some foreign-policy foundation (any port in a storm) decided it would be easier to work with white people than Semitic, Asian, or Hispanic, speak nothing of African. It's why only the American fringe cares about Tibet. I think what it really is, in the end, is that time dulls all memory, and with Americans and their infamously-short attention span (seven seconds in my youth, and I believe the general statistic is declining), out of mind equals completely out of mind. (Psychology is important in the US; Americans carry huge burdens of stuff they believe is important but want out of mind; sublimation is a bad word because sublime has positive implications. Denial, the search for bliss through apathy. And please remember that we suffer Chronic Data Overload. If you're not overwhelmed in the US, you're not working hard enough. Seriously, there are cultural reasons Americans bury so much; some of why "they" hate us is, sadly, symptomatic of other, more subtle issues.)

Remember: this continent is "our" land because we can hold it. "Might is right" is one of the foundations of the American Way. And yes, that, too, is one of those dirty secrets. (If we don't talk about it, maybe it won't be true.)

And though I hate to say it, one of the things that finally broke the American conscience regarding Northern Ireland was the CNN age: Americans watched news footage of a few of those parades; enough of the IRA (enough "factions") got their acts together long enough to wear a respectable political face while some loyalist paramilitaries kept hitting. Some great footage we got on this side of the pond was of thousands of loyalists being restrained by the British military during march season. Three children were killed in a firebombing and the British had the unpleasant moment of taking spot fire from those who alleged loyalty to the same crown. The Catholic side held their dignity just long enough to make people pay attention. Of course, it helped that it was white people fighting white people, I swear. Even with the available documentation on the web, I still can't figure out what the hell happened in Rwanda.

Yes, this is wrong. And yes, the American government lends the Israeli state material assistance which enables these things. But most Americans don't understand why they should care about this any more than anything else. And, after all, remember that "God is on our side" (er ... according to our President select) and our enemies happen to be Islamic.

Trying to get Americans to care ... have you tried fellatio yet?

It's one of the reasons why I'm thankful that my primary contribution to American society right now is reserved and ideological (e.g. my daughter) and not economic (e.g. as a consumer); next year I will file no income, pay no taxes. I am strangely happy about that. It is a source of deep disappointment and disgust that my government sponsors any human violations anywhere in the world.

My society made a mistake in raising me to believe in certain "American" ideals that the present state of the world indicates are not, in fact, American at all for their inconvenience to our economic and cultural agenda. I cracked the joke yesterday about the irony that we just fought about the word "God" in the Pledge of Allegiance when in fact the part that Americans clearly don't like has something to do with "Liberty and Justice for All".

It's not a big mistake, though. Americans seem quite satisfied with the new ethic; a majority seems to support it.

:m:,
Tiassa

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alanH - about as much as it was the last time, and frankly were the US to actually do something so foolish and criminal, you'd find out first-hand (at least in an economic sense) what the japanese military found out after Pearl Harbour...

 

Sparks: can you elaborate? I'm not really following your point.

 

Tiassa: do you believe that there is ever any justification for violence, for instance self-defense or rescuing someone, that is not "wrong and stupid"?

 

AlanH

I no longer believe that any given incident can be wholly isolated in history. If someone attacks a nation, one of the first things I ask myself regarding what to do about it is "why" it happened. To wit, I believe our war on terror and our Iraqi-Bush War are a bit knee-jerk. Security, yes, but the WoT has been a disgrace. What are we protecting? Our asses? Have we gotten so desperate as to sacrifice the very principles we claim to defend and uphold?

When the enemy is hitting you shoot back. Invading and hunting down and punishing are different matters entirely. That's why Americans are so pissed off: there was nobody to shoot back at this time. So they're jumping on the Bush Doctrine so they can feel proper shooting at anyone.

What that all means in terms of the question is that you do what you must at the moment. But inventing reasons to keep having moments is a bad idea.

When the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, of course we should shoot back. But as to the rest of the war in the Pacific ... hell, the Japanese felt they were responding to eighty years of inappropriate behavior on the part of Americans that began when our ships entered the harbor guns ablaze. A little consideration of the why and how of things would have increased understanding, which would have allowed opportunities for better resolutions than firestorms, atomic bombs, and a bloody flotsam of America's boys.

When Al Qaeda "bombed" the World Trade Center, there were no squadrons to shoot down, no ships to sink. So the president manufactured a situation that upset Americans even more: How different would a little bit of diplomatic dignity have made the Afghani Bush War?

The circumstances warranting force are generally quite limited in my mind. A people have the right to abolish their own government, a person has the right to defend self and family from immediate assault.

But the blood has to come from somewhere, and how is it that a soldier, whose job is entering lethal situations, is that much more important than a child? The decision is made: The Israelis, like the Americans, will preserve as much of their adult, military blood as possible, and exact instead the toll from civilians who are just in the way.

Talk about some messy priorities.

It comes down to two simple questions: "Does the world want a solution or a bloodbath? And how badly do we want that end?"

:m:,
Tiassa

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alanH,
At the moment, Congress is being asked to raise the debt ceiling by $1 trillion to $7.38 trillion. The US economy is in the bowl right now. So if you think that the US is immune to economic sanction, you're an egyptian boatman.
Were the US to use nuclear weapons aggressively, they'd scare just about every other world nation into taking action against them - and economic sanction is the easiest and most effective way to take action against the US right now.
Clearer?

 

Tiassa: I was thinking for a simple yes or no.

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Seriously, though, I disagree with you about us shooting anywhere and everywhere. I think we've been very particular, and good lord, even in how we execute the war we're taking great care to avoid civilian casualties.

Sparks: yep. Since you mentioned nuclear, I can see what you were talking about. I didn't say nuclear, I just said massive retaliation, which I don't necessarily see as nuclear.

 

alanH - Ah. Sorry, I read "salted earth" as something a lot more sinister ...

 

Sparks: it might well be. But it wasn't me who said that, it was Clockwood.

 

alanh,

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Oops!

 

I wish we had no relationship with Israel. Period.