Pride

[Soulcry]

Why do we have this value even though it mostly hurts us? Pride is a value that mostly stops us from doing many things that would benefit us or just make us happy. Is there a way to not to think so much about it? :rolleyes:

[machaon]

Why do we have this value even though it mostly hurts us? Pride is a value that mostly stops us from doing many things that would benefit us or just make us happy. Is there a way to not to think so much about it?

Yes, be poor for a while. Edjucate yourself and love those who do not know how to edjucate themselves.

[Soulcry]

I dont think that you can say poor people dont have pride. In my opinion pride doesnt have too much to do with how rich or poor you are. I am a college student so i am not rich and have often money problems.

[Jerrek]

I am proud of who I am. I am proud of what I've accomplished. I will keep my pride, thank you very much.

[notme2000]

Jerrek,
that's great! I am too, and agree. But I think he means when pride becomes ego, in which cause it's not healthy anymore.

[airavata]

pride is essential. i agree with jerrek. but there's a fine line between pride and ego. strangely enough many people seem to cross that line and become egotistic.

[Soulcry]

Whenever I climb I am followed by a dog called 'Ego'."
- Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900)

[Clockwood]

Pride fules human ambition. Pride is the basis for all vice AND all virtues. Without it we wouldnt have invented anything above the spear.

Heck, even survival instinct could be considered a form of pride. The act of thinking "I am more worthy to survive than the food I eat or that which wishes to eat me"

[fredx]

machaon said:

"Yes, be poor for a while. Edjucate yourself and love those who do not know how to edjucate themselves."

Can some of you breath some air and find some common sense. Machaon is making a good point here. Alot of humbleness can go along way and humbleness and modesty are the worst enemies of pride.

A professor of mine described pride as a better-than-thou attitude, unjustified self-esteem and smugness. If that doesn't do the job for you than I do know what will.

He is also said that a civilised person takes pride in the situation, so while I do not think that it is bad to take pride in yourself, it is sometimes advisible to take pride in the situation more so than yourself. In this way, you can be more of a selfless person and that does not necessarily mean that you have to lose yourself, although that may be a good idea also.

Still, in certain games, like flirtation for example, it may do you well to display some pride but that doesn't make it less of a negative emotion or vice.

Also, Soulcry, neither I nor anybody else can tell you whether you should drop your pride or keep it when dealing with certain situations, only you can decide that for yourself.

[Clockwood]

Without some pride one would slide into a state of depression and self loathing. You would feel that because you have no worth there would be no reason in continuing to live.

Pride is pride, justified or unjustified; Pride in oneself or pride in others. Its necessary in some quantity. A man too humble will often underestimate himself and have little ambition. The world runs on pride.

[exsto_human]

How can pride be anything but an ego? And what possible good can it do? ;)

Pride = Ego = Illusion = Not a path to truth*

*Truth is a path away from illusion(ie. towards non-suffering). Truth is not a destination, only a path.
*ahem*
Ok sorry for the Buddhist insert... But I seriously believe that pride is unnecesary just as hate and jealousy. Pride does no good, pride differentiates when there is nothing inherent to differentiate. Pride is just another silly illusion.

[fredx]

exsto human said:
"Truth is a path away from illusion(ie. towards non-suffering)"

this is interesting, I would like it if you go into more depth about what you mean by this, provided that you could keep it somewhat within the topic of pride. I think you may be on to something here.

[One]

Take pride in your doing not your being.

[fredx]

True, One, thats kind of what I was saying but you put it in a different light, very cool.

[LaoTzu]

Pride is useless.

Shame is simply the other side of pride -- they are essentially the same thing. Self-loathing comes from having pride, not from avoiding it. Self-esteem is a manifestation of the pettiness of humanity. Only by not thinking of the self can the entire issue be solved.

Pride causes conflict, undermines other values when prioritized (as it often is), and blinds one to unsatisfying truths. There are no benefits. I see no sense in praising it.

[exsto_human]

for fred.

"Truth is a path away from illusion(ie. towards non-suffering)"

I may have used the term non-suffering a bit too casualy, as it implys that which is unpleaseant. While my meaning does include that which is unpleaseant, it is all just opposites to that which is pleasant and you cannot eliminate the one without the other. Perfect correlatives, they are the same thing if you will ;), illusions.

Basicaly what LaoTzu just said. :)

[Clockwood]

You have to take pride in things otherwise they have no worth to you. If you love someone you take pride in them.

[LaoTzu]

Originally posted by Clockwood
You have to take pride in things otherwise they have no worth to you. If you love someone you take pride in them.

Perhaps. However, I think I disagree on two counts: first, being proud and taking pride are different concepts. I am not necessarily against the second, as it is just a slang phrase for enjoying things. Being proud as a character is what I see as negative. "Having pride" is worthlessly vain, while "taking pride" is more or less a positive, selfless concept.

Also, I think it possible to love someone without necessarily "taking pride" in them. I think that the phrase probably means different things to different people, but to me it doesn't seem contradictory to love someone and not be proud of them.

[Soulcry]

Oh, i remember this topic..

I remember the main reason that made me open this topic was a girl. I just couldnt approach her even though we were almost everyday together (together with friends). I couldnt approach her cause i was afraid of getting rejected and what would happen to my pride then :rolleyes: I was more afraid of loosing her as a friend if i would have asked her out.

I opened this topic on a saturday night before leaving to a bar when i was kinda drunk ;) Anyway, she is not here anymore. So, there is nothing i can do about it .

[Exotic_D]

I am not religious (any longer) but i am in total agreement with the labeling of Pride as a mortal sin... it fits all the profiling of "evil"... it causes great strife.. undermines peace and unity... and most importantly separates the being from its true self... its humble giving self... for what it's worth, pride is not human nature... it is human conditioning.. pride did not make neanderthals hunt larger game or build more efficient tools... self preservation did... either do it.. or die.. not do it a certain way or you won't keep up appearances with the other cave dwellers... i think the pride we are witnessing in such detail today... is autodestructive... it took a long time to evolve to this stage also...

yes.. ultimately a leader is always chosen... leaders are important.. and necessary... but we all know what happens when leaders govern with pride instead of humility... against the people instead of for them...

i have suffered intensely at the other end of the spectrum of pride all my life... SHAME... pride no matter how little is a learned behavioural response to someone's perception of you... as is shame... constructed to either alleviate or confirm fabricated insecurities that are borne from a contrived societal vantagepoint... with the ultimate goal being total control of the entity... it's really a scam... designed to make you believe you aren't good enough without the big job, good wife, 2.2 kids and a house in the burbs...

if you believe pride is necessary, then by definition you are agreeing to the constraints and slavery that is the human experience... human society... pride ultimately leads to oppression of others or one's self... class division, race division and gene division are breeding grounds for pride and the inevitable outcome of pride is always greed... you can easily thrive on pride itself.. it burns like a barn fire does... fast... furious and until everything lays in ashes... how could anything good come from such a thing?

nothing beneficial comes from pride.. just as shame never helped anyone... being shameful is as conditioned as being proud... with equally devestating consequences... suicide being one of them... self loathing can be experienced even when proud, since it is where the perception of your being is formed it is a finite line... being proud is the illusory peak of shame... but eventually pride lets you down.. because in all honesty you know you are not perfect and will never live up to your ego's expectations... it's a far fall too...

D

[Balder1]

Pride holds you together and drives you to accomplish. It's a good thing, but an excess of it is a bad thing, it seems like.

When I was younger and read what Jesus would say, I always used to agree with him on things such as: "the meek shall inherit the earth", "be humble", and all that stuff. I thought that if everyone was humble, there would really be no trouble in the world. And that's probably right. People who've been downtrodden know how to treat others nicely.