Violent Video Games: Good or Bad For Society?

[Oxygen]

Certain video games which were briefly termed "Murder Simulators" , usually the first-person shoot 'em ups, have been blamed as a contributing factor in youth violence. In the Columbine High tragedy, the press never failed to mention the video games that the punks who did the shooting were into playing. They couldn't run the story without going out of there way to mention the games.

Also in the news, but only for one night and for little more than a video clip, was a story about an inner-city LAN party set up to give the deprived kids and gang-bangers a taste of a different life, a virtual world that they had only heard about other enjoying. The game "Half-Life", a notoriously realistic shoot 'em up, was set up, and the gang members almost immediately teamed up and began blowing the crap out of each other. They vented anger and frustration at each other as though they were out in the streets. After the anger subsided, the fun began. A hall that had been filled with swearing and tension gave way to the laughter of a good game of Steal the Flag. Afterwards, the youths said that it was fun because they knew they could "kill" someone in the virtual world, but that in reality he was really still alive and nobody was in trouble and nobody was left crying. Unfortunately, there was not enough funding to keep the LAN party going and the vioence returned, but to lower levels as the kids realized that in the real world, you don't just respawn somewhere else on the map.

So, do first-person shoot 'em ups do good by most people, or are they a menace?

[Rambler]

IMHO:
I guess its the same as violence on TV. To any well adjusted "healthy" mind its just abit of fun, recreation, a release if you like of our primal instincts to hunt and survive (well maybe more for males) and in general not a problem. However there are always going to be people who need some guidence in the way they absorb what is being presented to them...

Both good and bad just depends on the mind "absorbing" it...same could be said about many many things like hmmmm the bible for example.

[Tiassa]

So, do first-person shoot 'em ups do good by most people, or are they a menace?

I'm of the opinion that FPS video games simply exist. They do nothing. If a person of any age is unable to distinguish between fantasy and reality, we must wonder why. Rather, we're entitled to wonder why.

But it's like anything else ... you have to choose to shoot someone in reality. You have to choose to have a problem with something, and choose to settle it with a gun.

When we look at youth ... I mean, one of the reasons I enjoy FPS is because I've never been a violent person. My folks brought me up to stand up for myself, but I can't recall an occasion on which my parents accepted my reasons for standing up for myself, so there again, we're back to questions of conflict resolution.

I point out a recent school violence case we had in Washington. A 6 y/o boy brings a loaded pistol to school. When caught with the gun and asked why he has it, he says, "To shoot Ellie in the face." Ellie is a 5 year-old girl he knows on the playground. Apparently, he and Ellie had disagreed about something the day before.

The kicker is that when the authorities investigating this situation show up at the residence, it's a crack den. Freebases and guns all over the place, bulletholes in the walls. I'm willing to bet that no video game our young gunman ever played, no song or television show, or soldier doll had as much to do with why he brought a gun to school as the fact that guns are the first solution in the adult world around him.

But playing Half-Life and such has not made me more violent; playing Wolfenstein 3-D and Duke Nukem didn't do it when I was a little younger. When I was about half my present age, no amount of Miami Vice could do it. Sure, my brother and I took to pro wrestling for awhile, but we figured out right away how to do it without hurting ourselves frequently or badly, and even until we were 18 or 19 we still enjoyed throwing each other around the basement.

We must choose to be violent. It is far too easy for parents and parenting advocacy groups to place the blame on the violent products they allow their children to use.

Soapbox, soapbox ... I sure wish my laundry was this interesting.

thanx,
Tiassa :cool:

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Whether God exists or does not exist, He has come to rank among the most sublime and useless truths.--Denis Diderot

[patriotSTORM]

The US Marines use (or used) a modified version of Doom to supplement training (ie: desensitize troops to killing)

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"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred with sweat and dust and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause; who' if we wins' knows the triumph of high achievement; and who, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid sould who know neither victory nor defeat."
-"The Man in the Arena"

[Tiassa]

I thought I'd mention that the Army, once upon a time, used a modified version of the arcade came Battle Zone to train tank crews.

I do not recall, however, that the Chinese ever used Atari's Pong in any way. ;)

thanx,
Tiassa :cool:

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Whether God exists or does not exist, He has come to rank among the most sublime and useless truths.--Denis Diderot

[Oxygen]

Arcade games based on combat training equipment really isn't that new. In Santa Cruz in the older part of the Boardwalk down at the arcade there used to be this game based on the Norden Bomb Sight. You were bombing military targets (you lost points for hitting villages and towns). The whole apparatus was based on the bomb-dropping method that, at the time the game was built (1942), was top secret and so highly classified that it only became de-classified within the last decade. There were other "games" that were really combat simulators when you thought about them, including one that had you manning a "30 caliber machine gun" and shooting at abstract targets that would zoom by. This game was also circa 1942. Were they just innocent amusements caught up in the times, or were the kids of the Greatest Generation* being trained without their knowing it?

*(Greatest Generation is a tag given to that generation that grew up in the Great Depression and served in WW2 by more than a few authors.)

[This message has been edited by Oxygen (edited September 22, 2000).]

[Bowser]

I think that violence is part of human nature. These games exploit that part of our nature, as do most contact sports. I think the Violent Video Games are both good and bad: they serve as an emotional release for desires which have no other source of expression; however, the violence is produced in an artificial environment which has no physical or emotional consequence as it does in life.

What would be the repercussion if I was to write a game called "Hate Crime?" Would tiassa want to play it? <img src = "http://www.exosci.com/ubb/icons/icon10.gif">

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It's all very large.

[This message has been edited by Bowser (edited September 24, 2000).]

[dexter]

i think of it as virtual tag.....

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when christianity ruled the world, it was called the dark ages!
THANK GOD FOR ATHEISM!

voice mail: 1-800-222-6000
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[Bowser]

"i think of it as virtual tag....."

Virtual Tag would never sell on the retail shelves. You need to combat something and you need an objective in order for a game to be entertaining...no, in order for a game to be fun. That's the dark side of human nature, a left-over from our past. ...Domesticated maybe, but still animal. <img src = "http://www.exosci.com/ubb/icons/icon12.gif">

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It's all very large.

[htr44]

personaly i think if someone comits a crime or whatever u wanna call it from playing a video game there just plain crazy or using it as an excuse to get away with one, but thats just my opinoin

video games kick ass

[Tiassa]

Bowser--

One of the things I loved about Half-Life was that I wasn't shooting at fat little Nintendo-Mario characters.

What would be the repercussion if I was to write a game called "Hate Crime?" Would tiassa want to play it?

Tell ya what, Bowser, if it gets you off to shoot at people in a video game 'cuz they're black or gay or Jewish or whatnot, go for it. Just play your stereo real loud so the neighbors don't hear you yelling, "Take that, you filthy Nigger!"

That would have to be one hell of a video game.

Although I did love the game where I was an LAPD Cop and went around solving weird crimes. Anyway, it was, actually, easier to shoot a suspect who appeared to be a minority. The game designers had enough of a sense of humor to allow you that liberty.

If I ever remember the name of it, I'll pass it along. You'd probably get a kick out of it. ;)

thanx,
Tiassa :cool:

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Whether God exists or does not exist, He has come to rank among the most sublime and useless truths.--Denis Diderot

[Rambler]

ROFLMAO :D

[Oxygen]

One day at work we had encountered the workday from hell. All of our customers seemed to have woken up on the wrong side of the bed. We all tried to maintain a professional bearing, even the guy we call "Bad Attitude". When the day finished, the boss told me to print up papers with the names of every customer we had dealt with that day. We copied a stack for each employee, then we had a company party down at the local shooting range where we used the papers as targets. We filled the bays with gunsmoke. The following morning, many customers apologized for having been so rude the previous day. One even asked us how we could remain so pleasant after all the trouble. "Shoot," I said. "It was a hot day and everybody was just a little trigger happy." The boss cracked up laughing and the customers never knew why.

Now that we have games like Half Life and such, we don't have to go to the range. We can shoot our virtual customers and still make money off the real ones. Plus we can drink beer while we're doing it.

[Bowser]

I haven't down loaded these, but it might interest you.

http://hatewatch.org/software.html

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It's all very large.

[This message has been edited by Bowser (edited October 09, 2000).]

[Tiassa]

Bowser--

None of the capsule-summaries appealed to my taste. Let me know how you like 'em.

thanx,
Tiassa :cool:

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Whether God exists or does not exist, He has come to rank among the most sublime and useless truths.--Denis Diderot

[Weaver]

Who can tell? The video games seem too much like training simulations for eye to hand coordination, and who is to say wars will not be fought over the World wide web? We have the programs, so why not just use it?
To me violent video games are a relief from stress, I go to college full time, work part time (soon to be full time) and volunteer at my old high school to train Jrotc cadets. I have absolutely no time to myself except for maybe an hour or two before I go to bed. The video games help a lot. If it werent for them, I would have probably been in a bell tower somewhere.... who knows? All I know is that if you can descern between role-play, and real life. Then you have absolutely no problem...

[crazy2623]

I think that all you people talking about how violence in Video Games and Television are stupid! Kids grow up to be violent because they weren't treated correctly by their family. Using Video Games and movies as an excuse is bull, I play Video Games with violence all the time and im not a violent person so stop being paraniod parents.

[James R]

The direction of causation is very difficult here. The question is: do violent games make people violent, or do violent people tend to play violent games?

I think that if you are predisposed to violence, violent games are one expression for that predisposition. But I doubt that violent games make you a violent person.

Personally, I loved <i>Half Life</i>. I played my way through <i>Doom II</i> to the end. The granddaddy of FPS, <i>Wolfenstein 3D</i> was a lot of fun at the time. I have not had any kind of physical confrontation with anybody since <i>Wolf 3D</i> was published, so I don't think violent games have had a big effect on me.

As a side thought, I personally don't see any point in those boxing/martial arts/wrestling games where there's just two guys in a ring belting each other. Without a plot of some kind, it just seems like gratuitous violence to me.

[ElectricFetus]

I totally do not believe violent video games cause people to be violent. I have been playing FPS sence I was 8! Now if you tell me that video game have made me violent then I will just have to... HUNT YOU DOWN AND PULL OUT YOUR SPIN AND FEED ON YOUR FLUIDS!!! According to Oxygen you will not respawn after this? I hope for your sack this is not true.

[Nasor]

Originally posted by patriotSTORM
The US Marines use (or used) a modified version of Doom to supplement training (ie: desensitize troops to killing)
This is absolutely untrue. The marines experimented with a modified version of doom to teach squad coordination and movement. It had nothing to do with desensitizing anyone.

[ElectricFetus]

Did you know the US army gives away a free video game that simulates what it is like as a US soldier? It true, I have it and its not that great. To think all I needed to do to get it was register my name at the draft bureau.

here is the game: Americas Army (http://www.americasarmy.com/)

[wantknoght]

I would say that even baseball has the potential for triggering aggression, as does a certain cartoon, where a guy goes postal every time he eats a can of spinach. Shoot em up video games, probably more so.

In the past, this was simply accepted, but combined with an emphasis on respect for authority, with the aggression being channeled into the military.

Now, our society has less respect for authority, but more effective means of stimulating violence, along with better access to technical information, via the internet. The result is increased gang activity, and ameteur terrorists.

I'm all for questioning authority when necessary. However, our prisons are full of the kinds of people who will walk on the grass, just because there's a sign that says, "don't walk on the grass." I don't think that's what Thoreau had in mind.

I'm not a Christian myself, but I do think the strong emphasis on Christian morals, which was promoted by such organizations as the boy scouts, once did much to curb excessive violence. I think it would help, if we could have something like that now, minus the gay bashing, and the insistence that everyone believe the Earth was created in six days. I think the fundamentalists have some valid points, but that doesn't mean we're going to solve the problem, by posting the Ten Commandments in the classroom.

I see nothing wrong with violent video games, in the hands of responsible adults, but I do think we need to recognize that certain influences are harmful to children, and they need to be protected from them.

If a twelve year old boy is allowed to view pornagraphic movies, we shouldn't be too surprised, if he decides to try some of that stuff out on his younger sister. I don't hink nudity per se is the problem, as long as it's presented with the right attitude.

If you're a parent, and you allow your kids to watch professional wrestling, I'd say you're asking for trouble. A five year old can't be expected to understand that, if he bounces his little brother on his head, he isn't going to just get up again.

As for video games, I think they are a more effective medium than the technologies of the past, but the underlying problem is not a new one.

[Shin555]

My opinion on computer games is that there good, and they (for me) are a good way to relax.

But some plots on games may have things of a criminal nature (such as the Grand Theft Auto series) but all in all, there part of entertainment. And the mojity of them are based on movies or something that has happened in movies.

So if movies can has crime/violence in them then i see no reason why computer games can't, because nowadays there are age restrictions on the games that contain violence just as there is on movies.

[slim]

"Were they just innocent amusements caught up in the times, or were the kids of the Greatest Generation* being trained without their knowing it?"

** the kids have a head start on eye to hand co- ordination, yep! he'll make an Excellent F16 pilot one day.

"I think that violence is part of human nature. These games exploit that part of our nature, as do most contact sports.'

**Soccer, Football, and boxing are accepted forms of besting an opponent. Dog fighting, and Chicken Fighting all show a premeditated killing element, Those people should try vidio games..

"who is to say wars will not be fought over the World wide web? We have the programs, so why not just use it?"

**It is here, the times are here, so it must be dealt with. I see good and bad, mostly more good if......

"The video games help a lot. If it werent for them, I would have probably been in a bell tower somewhere.... who knows? All I know is that if you can descern between role-play, and real life. Then you have absolutely no problem..."

**this is true.

"Kids grow up to be violent because they weren't treated correctly by their family.'

**This is B/S... a Copout!

"I doubt that violent games make you a violent person."

**Like the fans of the superbowl losers? trashing a town and burning cars? or the deadly European Soccer Games?

"I would say that even baseball has the potential for triggering aggression,"

**True...

prisons are full of the kinds of people who will walk on the grass, just because there's a sign that says, "don't walk on the grass."

**Rebels and Renegades, purely Evil, me first people, shortcuts, cheap way to stardom, and those who were at the wrong place, wrong time.. not everybody is Guilty, thanks to our Judicial System.. Gung Ho Prosecutors play Games too!


****Lots of good replies here, Truth also. I think Violence comes from the Heart. Myself, I do not play Games when it comes to killing anything. nor would I want to enjoy it. To me it is a sick mind that wishes to see blood and guts splatter, and "Winning" over another living creature is not my cup of tea either! Games that simulate such patterns ... maybe they are a neccessary evil?

[ElectricFetus]

Yet I also am a certified wildlife rehabilitate and could not hurt anything REAL even if I had to. That and I’m a pussy and could not beat Stephen Hawkins in a box ring.

[DeeCee]

Well for what it's worth....
I think the good or bad thing is spurious, the subjective morality argument applies. Now as human beings are pack animals we all have desire for valdation and status. Back in the day murder was a popular way of gaining status. It still is in some parts of town but most people have moved on from that and gain status from less risky activities. My personal opinion is that young men have particular problems with status and also with testosterone, this situation is a games designers wet dream. Video games are a function of society and are as "good" or "bad" as the society that coded them. I personally wonder what Iraqi games designers are working on at the moment (apart from leaving town).
"good or bad?"
Up to you.

[Popcorn8636]

I've read about this topic for years now in books, magazines, on the net, etc. A scientific theory as to why some people become violent and/or morbid has to do with peoples genes;
I once read that people who seem to lack their father's genes are more prone to violence, and therefore buy violent games. They may not influence them at all. I'm not sure whether this is still a theory, and there isn't much evidence to back this up. (I myself think it's just a bogus idea).

[James R]

<i>I once read that people who seem to lack their father's genes are more prone to violence, and therefore buy violent games.</i>

What does this mean?

Everybody shares at least 50% of their genes with their father. How can you lack your father's genes?

[Popcorn8636]

:o I don't know. I just happened to come across it in some magazine article. It's a pretty stupid theory I guess. :rolleyes:

[Commandore Zippy]

Genes have nothing to do with this! People, by nature, are violent. Throughout the ages people have fought and killed for various reasons; whether it be money, land, or revenge.
Video games just help people vent their anger and frustration on a screen with pixels rather than a living being. It's not our fault that some crazed idiot who happened to be playing video games decided to go trigger happy and kill people. It's not like all killers are video game zombies. We here all these people b***h'n about how violent video games are and how violent they make people but we forget about the more deadly killers like Saddam Hussain or the Unabomber or Osama who, more than likely, never played a video game in their lives. It's outrageous, placing us in the same category as them. The nerve of those b*****ds!

[Neville]

..."Murder Simulators" :D

I don't know. I think supervision and parenting is the answer. Two 'youngsters' can play the same game and one can understand that it is a game and not get any appetite for violence because they understand that there are consequences for their actions, while the other (i would say one without guidance) could go out and commit attrocities.

[Commandore Zippy]

And how would he be able to commit these attrocities? He would have to get a gun in the first place (Kids can just as easily learn to preform martial combat on T.V. as on video games). And, let's say for example, he was playing Halo or Doom. Do you know of anyplace where this kid could accquire a mini-gun or rocket launcher? And even if he did get his hands on a gun, how would he know how to operate it? The games don't show it (trust me. The way they load gun is soooo fake). No. Parent supervision, although it may be helpful, is not the answer.

[shadowpuppet]

Never once when i was a child watching "Power Rangers" did i thnk to myself it would be fun to go outside, turn into a gigantic robotic dinosaur, and kill mutant things that always came back to life in the next episode.

Parents blame their childrens violence on video games becasue they can't face the fact that their probably the ones that the children hate, and any violence that they had in their heart, the parents COULD have stopped and cured, but they didn't.

I mean cmon kids have played "cowboys and indians" or some other make belive war game for ages.

[Commandore Zippy]

Sorry. I was thinking about that wrestling incident with that kid and his litle sister.

[ElectricFetus]

I agree shadowpuppet I may self have been playing violent video games since young child hood, ever since my mother gained a addiction for Wolfinstin 3D but My mother was always there for me and taught me proper social behavior and the difference between a CG sprit dieing and real death. It improper parenting that cause violent not the games, the games only give ideas to the egomaniac children that would not be if there parents raise them right to begin with.

[nukem]

War games are good well they helped me when this guy broke in to my house and i used moves i did in tom clancys somthing i cant remmember what its called but i used the moves and i knocked the guy out and he said he dident even hear me.

[ElectricFetus]

nukem,

wow so your gaming finger is that strong from over use that you can kill a man with it??? can you crush walnuts bear handed to?

[Fale]

Im guessing your all right but the real questions is, Why would people commit crimes cause of games? How are games, today good for youth or for the society? Please anwser




___________
G Unit Dawg

[Diode-Man]

Certain video games which were briefly termed "Murder Simulators" , usually the first-person shoot 'em ups, have been blamed as a contributing factor in youth violence. In the Columbine High tragedy, the press never failed to mention the video games that the punks who did the shooting were into playing. They couldn't run the story without going out of there way to mention the games.

Also in the news, but only for one night and for little more than a video clip, was a story about an inner-city LAN party set up to give the deprived kids and gang-bangers a taste of a different life, a virtual world that they had only heard about other enjoying. The game "Half-Life", a notoriously realistic shoot 'em up, was set up, and the gang members almost immediately teamed up and began blowing the crap out of each other. They vented anger and frustration at each other as though they were out in the streets. After the anger subsided, the fun began. A hall that had been filled with swearing and tension gave way to the laughter of a good game of Steal the Flag. Afterwards, the youths said that it was fun because they knew they could "kill" someone in the virtual world, but that in reality he was really still alive and nobody was in trouble and nobody was left crying. Unfortunately, there was not enough funding to keep the LAN party going and the vioence returned, but to lower levels as the kids realized that in the real world, you don't just respawn somewhere else on the map.

So, do first-person shoot 'em ups do good by most people, or are they a menace?

They are good for most people. That's exactly right, it looks realistic and people can see just how you can't actually "re-spawn" in real life.

Video games like that show how fragile life can be, and are a fun competitive way to get anger out. ( in the case of those gang members anyway)

All in all, I would suggest learning an instrument over learning to play video games. :o

[Fale]

noob

[ElectricFetus]

noob

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff266/oughtumn/Bump.jpg

[Diode-Man]

Dang dude, that picture is weird.

But she is hot anyhow.

Is he giving some gold pointers?

Porn golf?

[ElectricFetus]

Dang dude, that picture is weird.

But she is hot anyhow.

Is he giving some gold pointers?

Porn golf?

All I was saying is if your going to bump a long dead thread (which by the way is a very good thing) do it right.

[Anti-Flag]

I'd sure like to bump her thread.