two behaviours people like to hide!!

[skyline]

There are only two behaviours that people like to do in secret: first, when they go to the Bathroom to drop their body waste. Second, when people perform sex!!

In your opinion, why human, regardless of culture, always hide them self during the performance of these two human needs?

[SwedishFish]

very good observation. because we are "civilized" and tend to reject anything in our nature at risk of being barbaric.

[Fafnir665]

I think the bathroom is more true then the other. While you can find people fucking almost anywhere, with almost any group watching them, a lot even get a thrill from it, you rarely see someone get a thrill from defecating in public. I think the bathrrom behaivior is more interesting, it may be because humans feel vulnerable while excreting excremant, because you have to expose yourself, and keep the position for a number of minutes usually. It may be also that throughout most peoples lives they've gotten the impression that its wrong or immoral to puclicly perform in such a way, look at the romans, they had public everything, our society evolved to have certain things private

[Charles Fleming]

...you rarely see someone get a thrill from defecating in public. it might not be as rare as you think :D (not talking personally!!)

I don't know Skyline but it's a good question! I have thought parallel to this quandary before. Are you drawing a distinction between 'dumping waste' ( :D ) and draining waste?? I'll continue without your reply for now and I'll just reply to what you've put.

I initially would have said that it has something to do with Penetration of the body. All orafices have some form of 'safeguard' against germs. The ears have wax, the mouth has it's own bacteria, yet orafices which dump probably the deadliest germs are considered more of a liability than the others. Maybe this is why! They are responsible for disposing of the substance's which, within the body, are the most threatening to it.

Maybe it's psychological. I haven't got time to write my comprehensive theory here ( :rolleyes: ) but I'll be back.

[Fafnir665]

personally, i think its a small part instinctual, and a large part social. I think i pretty much covered why i think at least one of the behaviors is private insticntually, the other is for pretty much the same reason, your pretty vulnerable fucking in the miiddle of the savvanah where you evolved... or in a street, but the street is social. Our society has evolved much from the time of humping in a tree. Until recently, like since before WW2, sex was pretty much private, but with the explosion of alternative ideas, it has become acceptable to be activly sexual at as young as 13 years old :eek: that is no longer a stricly private act, people have lost many of their morals regarding this, partly, mostly, because its a pleasurable act, IMHO. Its popular to engage in sex, its a peer pressure thing as well, theres many factors that have lead to the de-privitization of sex. And many of them hold true with defecation, but oppositly. The reason defecating isnt as popular as fucking around, is plainly, it stinks. Your not going to go around talking about a slimy brown stinky thing that came out of your anus, its not done, why? its not pleasurable perse.

faf

[vyze]

I am often accused of being strange. I dress trendy, I get laid alot, but I'm not your average joe. I was born caucasian in hong kong, grew up in britian, and now live in rural america. Maybe this, or television, gives me joy in having sex in public. likes the thrill at watching people's looks of disgust as they drive past me as my girlfriend sucks my cock. and about the poop. i don't poop in public. however, there is a thrill of pissing on tree's, street signs, mustang's, and fire hydrants. i hope this isn't censored. i love you charlie poole!!!

[Olaus]

This is not a valid observation across cultures.

Among various Eskimo groups it is standard and common to find people defecating right there in the living room (into the appropriate recepticle, of course). It's either too cold out for this or, and you wouldn't think this, there are too many biting insects outisde during warm seasons.

Sex is also casual and public. Couples "laugh together" regularly in front of visiting neighbors and children.

As a second example, witness the Samoan traditional house. It's composed of bread tree brranches for support with LARGE gaps between them. There is a frond-weave wall which may be lowered in case of severe weather, but it is not utilized for privacy. Sex and expulsion remain public and mundane occurences.

A question from this might be whether or not Westerners place some special importance on sex that Eskimo and Samoans do not? I'd say that this is intuitively obvious, but it'd take alot of research to know why or specifically how. Perhaps there is a similar issue with expulsion, maybe to do with cleaness in modernity. It puzzles me a bit more than sex because it's even less impactuous and more mundane.

[vyze]

I think then what needs to be descerned is which cultures are we speaking about? Limiting it to "western civilizations" - "united states" - "rural eastern asian" - or what? And then, do we talk about social norms? I'm not sure if anybody remembers the Seinfield episode when almost all of them got arrested for urinating in various parts of a parking garage when Kramer lost the car (I belive). I would be hesitant to urinate in public, but it wouldn't stop me.

[gendanken]

Olaus,
Now, are you sure you know what you're talking about?

[Olaus]

Originally posted by gendanken
Olaus,
Now, are you sure you know what you're talking about?

I should. I'm an anthropologist.

Look it up yourself.

[DarkEyedBeauty]

You seem to be missing the obvious point about defecation. Instinct. We instinctually stay away from feces because they carry diseases. The humans who did not, died of disease and didn't pass their genes on. Most animals have a separate place for where they defecate. And while other animals of their species might smell it, they don't play in it. Some do, who knows why. But generally evolution has caused us to keep it private and sanitary.

Sex on the other hand. I could only guess and say that it's by choice. I think that sex is generally an intimate moment that people want to be shared with only their partner. Now, with generations being more and more involved with casual sex, it is becoming less intimate, probably why exhibitionism and voyeurism are becoming more popular. Just a guess though.

[valentino]

I don't know if it's voyeurism or just a greater openess about sex. I for one consider myself to be a relatively private person, but lost my virginity with four other people in the room. I'm not an exhibitionist or anything, but sex is so common there really isn't the need for that smoke screen to be put up.

[Blindman]

[quote]regardless of culture,[quote]

I think that there are 3 things that cultures do hide…

Committing a crime.
Being different.
Doing something obviously stupid.

[sparkle]

You seem to be missing the obvious point about defecation. Instinct

DarkEyedBeauty, go to India (some parts) or Nepal. You will change your mind.
Have you every heard about how the queens and princesses of the past defecated on the floor, lifted their gowns and walked away? A servant with a showel cleaned up the mess. Errr, maybe I just gave away one of the secrets of European history?

I agree to Blindman's statement. Having sex in public may be considered a crime in some cultures. May change with time.

[freefall]

I suppose this could be wrong but one of the favorite history shockers of one of my teachers was the ancient greek toilets where greeks would all gather to deficate and chat. supposedly they passed around a communal sponge to wipe themsleves.

[Charles Fleming]

Err, that can't be healthy! They could catch all sorts of diseases from each other!

[DeeCee]

Just an observation (or two)
Through fate or just bad career planning I'm obliged to spend part of the day hanging around very old people. The old, in general, seem a lot less concerned with privacy issues though there are notable exceptions. The elderly with various levels of dementing illness seem even more disinhibited. Could this be because the need for privacy is a higher function requiring a young fresh brain to work its magic? Perhaps Old folk in a hurry can't afford to worry about what you think or maybe, just maybe, life has shown them some great secret that can only be appreciated through the haze of old age and they just don't need to give a fuck.
I kinda hope it's the latter:)
If you've ever seen Granny shit in the sink you'll know exactly what I mean.
:m:
Dee Cee

[weebee]

Maybe like the nudists they have just come to the wise conclusion that social customs just don’t matter. But what makes these biological acts behaviour? Surely it’s how we shit and not the actual shitting that’s the behaviour -a philosophical distinction between action and behaviour…the best use for shitting I’ve heard of was the seats that were built in china over carp ponds, feeding the fish.

I would point out that it’s quite a social thing for males to urinate together and even quite publicly (Amsterdam and Paris urinals, thought A’dam brought them in to stop drunk tourists falling into the canals with their pants down). As I understand it pissing competitions are a bonding experience between boys.

I heard that the guy who invented the seated toilet was to be knighted by Queen Victoria, but they couldn’t bring themselves to tell her what it was for.
:D

[sparkle]

What makes these biological acts behavior? I think they become behavior when you consciously attach a meaning and purpose before doing them. Like trying to hide them. Like trying to use them to insult others (blowing your nose in some countries!). Like making a social event out of it. Speaking of: Just try to spray graffiti on a Chinese loo door :D.

[paths]

I think it's because people have styled an acceptable way of doing certain things like eating for example we use cutlery and have a propper style in which we perform it.. toilet stuff is just toilet stuff, you can't do it in a particular modified style to appear in a particular way... also it has a foul odour at times and people may feel discusting for creating that. " Oh my god you made that smell you are discusting!" and then in future whoever witnessed the event will assosciate them with that horrible smell. HAHAHAHA horrid~!

[cthulhus slave]

go sit in the street till a car comes and has to stop cuz your there. then shit right infront of them and you will have all the proof you need that its not normal.
howvwer sex in public isnt that bad.
infact these days its incouraged!:D
atleast by the porn indestry

[Guyute]

Originally posted by Blindman
[quote]regardless of culture,[quote]

I think that there are 3 things that cultures do hide…

Committing a crime.
Being different.
Doing something obviously stupid.



Could you elaborate more on the "doing something obviously stupid" thing. What do you mean......Examples?

Also in my opinon, being different isnt somthing people hide. I beleive that the vast majority of people want to be different and not the same as other people. Yes people do hide little things about themselves but dont we all, and most people get over these things. I beleive that soceity today is turning away from the "Pop Brittany Superficial era" and more towdards the "Be Different Avril Era"(sorry about using these stars, trying to add more picture to my point:p ) Agree Anyone?

-Guyute

[invisibleone]

Well I think that if people are "different" in a way that is generally discouraged by society, then it is more conducive to their well being to try and hide it.

[ElectricFetus]

look everyone I'm naked!

[and2000x]

Perhaps it is because taking a shit reminds others that you are in fact a biological being with a place in nature rather than some spiritual ego dettached from reality.

The sex thing is probably a big problem for some people because it leads to children of course.

If you've ever read some Robert Anton Wilson, he makes the point that most humans use feces as an insult because primates used to throw it at each other. For example: "shove it up your ass" "I don't give a shit" "Eat shit and die" "Poop on you."

[thefountainhed]

Different social/physcal environments will necessitate different adaptations within specific societies. This takes the form of morals/values, etc and become part of the culture. There is no instinctive explanation.

[dspiral]

This is a weird topic, but it makes sense.

One thing I have observed with my kids, my soon use to have his "pooping" spot, were he would go to a corner, or place in the house to poop in his diaper. I always thought this was some sort of instinct. Now that my daughter is at this age, she is starting to do the same thing, she has her special place to go and poop. They also do not like to bothered, or spoken to when they are concentrating on the job. (who does)

Just an observation that I thought was strange, and wondered why we were built this way.

[fireguy_31]

I'm a little late here but I read a post by Olaus and just about shit my pants laughing... This person stated that 'Eskimos' deficate and have sex publicly because it was socially acceptable and, suggested that western society did not do either publicly because it was a social hangup.... furthermore....

Originally posted by gendanken
Olaus,
Now, are you sure you know what you're talking about?

To which Olaus responds:


I should. I'm an anthropologist.

Look it up yourself.

Well, I'm no anthropologist and I can tell you with certainty that the Inuit did not deficate and copulate publicly because it is socially acceptable. Back in the early part of the 20th century - the early period of incursion - the Inuit lived primarily in snow houses (called Igloos) and 'skin' shelters. Neither were very large in size and mostly contained a single area or room. When it came to having sex other people would sometimes be present, it couldn't be avoided.

As for deficating in the 'living room' in front of others; the Inuit only did this in Igloos, and why? Because it was tooooo damn cold to go outside. Who the hell wants to go outside and drop yer drawers in -50 degree celcius weather? That just don't make sense. Also, it wasn't like they could go behind a tree to fuck or shit - they lived high above the tree-line on the tundra.

In conclusion, contrary to Olauss' anthropological view that the 'Eskimos' deficated and copulated in public because it was socially acceptable, I offer a more logical answer: The Inuit copulated and deficated 'seemingly' in public only because of environmental factors, and not because they wanted to or that others wanted to watch.. I offer evidence to this claim by referring to modern lifestyles of the Inuit - they live in homes with bathrooms that have doors on them and sleep on beds in bedrooms with doors on them..... Why? Because it's COLD outside!

EDIT: Here in the south I have seen 'free-spirited' ladies performing oral sex on men and women publicly, come accross couples unable to withhold their sexual urges and 'fuck' infront of me and witnessed countless men and women deficating anywhere and everywhere. On the other hand, while I lived, worked and studied all accross the Arctic I never once saw the things I saw in the south in the north.