OK... I just thought of something. Of all the languages I've seen so far (which is quite a lot), there are a few universal things that NONE of them have. I can sum a lot of it up in this: No natural human language has grammatical markers or particles to indicate the condition of things outside the environment of the speaker/listener or what is being spoken of. When I say this I mean, no language has different verb endings for if the speaker or listener is underground or aboveground, or if they're at a time of plenty, or a time of famine, and on land or sea. All that can be conveyed by grammatical changes is details of the events that are being spoken about, or details of the statement itself (ie, if it is gossip, or if it is something probable). Where temporal and spatial relationships are concerned, there are no absolute markers, everything is in relation to either 1. the speaker/listener, or 2. another event that is being spoken of (ie, if you are speaking of two events). No language has verb markers to indicate that something happened after the new year or before harvest season. However, there are markers for whether things happened in the past, are happening in the present, or will happen in the future (ie, in relation to the speaker/listener) Your thoughts?
i couldnt feel any stupider (i have a good mind to send you to your room) so ahh our language pattern should change if we lived underground? or in space? (i feel even more stupid after that - no supper for you) are examples possible?
No, I'm saying that such grammatical indicators are not present in any of the many languages I've observed, and I'd like to declare them universals (eg, they are universally not present in natural human languages). Of course, early European linguists thought that the "universals" were clearly outlined by the structure of Latin and Greek, but I believe my horizons are broader than that (I have read of a lot of different languages languages from every continent except Antarctica)
Good point, but I think you need to examine tone. Tone is the part of speech where emotion is conveyed. Yes, its not part of grammer, but Chinese (or maybe its Japanese) is very tone-based. Very good examination, though.
chinese mandarin is a four tone language generally, with one soft tone. chinese cantonese is a five tone language. japanese works more with stress sometimes, but is mostly a monotone language. and as far as i know, no, none of them have verb inflections to mark a speaker as speaking from underground. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Hm. Interesting. In some languages I know, there are NO grammatical endings (tonal languages). However, they have certain expressions used to mark the standpoint (elevation) of the speaker. That is usually cloud seven Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!. Example: a government official does not say “I have come to your village.”, but: “I have descended to your village.” For me very puzzling, because mostly the officials live on the lowlands and the villages they grace with their presence by descending upon them are far in the highlands. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! It is also normal that people who visit a government office do not COME there, but climb there. From the highlands to the valleys…Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Hey GB-GIL, I think I found something else to put on your list: There seems to be NO tonal language where the tone is used to convey a grammatical alteration of the “neutral” word. Explanation: When thinking about Slacker’s post, I found that in a tonal language the tone is NOT used to convey emotion. I give you an example: Ma just neutrally spoken means “come”. Ma spoken with a higher tone means “soaking rice” Ma spoken with a twitch means “horse” Ma spoken in a questioning tone means “dog”. The same syllable spoken in different tones gets completely new meanings. Needless to say that tonal languages are quite dangerous to speak if you are not firm. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Well, what struck me was that, although the tone COULD theoretically be used to convey emotion or even express grammatical alterations, it is just not used for that. Example: the tone used for “horse” above comes very close to saying “come” in a very strict way. It COULD mean (theoretically): “you MUST come here at once!!!!” –but it doesn’t. It just means “horse”. Strange huh?
yup emotions and grammatical alterations are denoted by special tone markers but think about it this way, much easier than english to pose a question, just by adding a question particle at the start and/or the end of a statement, without all the fiddling with word order Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Aaaaaarghhhh! When I was still learning it was very embarrassing. I would pose a question to somebody by "conveying it" through lifting my tone at the end (like in English)....and I got a blank stare. After some seconds (eternally long!) I actually thought of adding this little question particle. THEN they would understand. You understand, no yes? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Chinese is character based language. Most characters have a fixed sound and a fixed tone. Therefore, same sound with different tones happens all the time. Usually when the tone changes, the meaning changes. That's because the corresponding character is changed. There are many cases that the sound and tone remain the same but due to different context, the corresponing character and meaning are also changed. Chinese language doesn't use verb endings to indicate anything. It doesn't have verb endings or any kind of word morphing to fit different tense or person. All relations and conditions are indication by adding the relation or condition along some conjunction character or word. For example: I was in bookstore before 2 pm. In Chinese: Two pm before I in bookstore.
