I couldn't really decide on what to name my thoughts here... I decided on science and society because I decided this is where it fit best. I realized some of the madness that we have in this world. Im going to go to college to learn facts, merely an extension of school, and pay 30-50 grand? Doesnt that seem a little outrageous? Nowadays were all hipocrits. Ill expand. First lets begain with a look into the past. When there really were no schools in the past, our lively hood and the economy depended on the future generation to learn certain trades to take off where the adults left off when they passed on. Since schools really weren't around, we used something called APPRENTICESHIP. Makes sense, right? I thought so.. Now to the practical benefits and my main point! Then the hippocracy of it all. APPRENTICESHIP vs COLLEGE! Well lets see here. Apprenticeship versus college? First lets define apprenticeship: Straint from Dictionary.com: ap·pren·tice ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-prnts) n. One bound by legal agreement to work for another for a specific amount of time in return for instruction in a trade, art, or business. One who is learning a trade or occupation, especially as a member of a labor union. A beginner; a learner. tr.v. ap·pren·ticed, ap·pren·tic·ing, ap·pren·tic·es To place or take on as a beginner or learner. So, now that we have that in place.... let me highlight in bold important words, again look above and remember. Now finally to my argument. Why in the world would we go to a college? To learn facts about a particular trade then go and get a job. What apprenticeship? To go and work for someone and learn the trade.....your thinking now, is there a contest here? Surely college is better. YOU ARE WRONG! To make it short and sweet: College: Cost:lots of moolah Learning: facts what you get: a piece of paper Extra: Parties Apprenticeship Cost: Wait? You get paid for learning? Learning: everything of the master (1on1) what you get: everything Extra: Here's the kicker...Experience And now for the Hippocracy of it all! You go and try to get a job out of college. Youve got your fancy piece of paper. But they require experience..Huh? Youve appreticed someone. You try to get the job. You have ALL THE EXPIERENCE IN THE WORLD, but turn you down due to lack of paper thats says: Congrats! You just paid a shit load of money for facts and Zero expierence. I think you can figure out which one is better... Apprenticeship and although this post is "patchy" (ina hurry), Ill list benefits -You learn everything from a master, even little "tricks" of the trade -You get the experience -You get paid -You get 1on1 learning -You learn how to interact with peope in your profession! This is a BIGGY! Any thoughts. Very interesting idea if we viewed a 2 year-4 year apprencticeship as we viewed a degree from a college. I personally think our economy would tremendously benefit. And the second best part: Keeps those damn trouble maker Teenagers' busy. Just a thought. Later T P.S. I speak of experience. I am 16 and have appreticed a jeweler for 3 years. In addition to learning loads of info, I have gained enough experience that I could easily get a job at a jewelery shop when in college. NOT TO MENTION, Ive grow TREMENDOUSLY as a person working there. Thats because its a small jewelery store, the owner is the manager and employee. So he is my friend. I go to the store and its like my second home. I no longer view it as work. I have learned to come out of my "shyness Shell" and learned how to interact with people in a business type way. Im much more mature and much more knowledgable and intelligent of a person now that I did this.
I agree from the student's point of view apprenticeship or co-oping is by far the best choice, for the reasons you mentioned. But in the working world, the problem is job availability. Your apprenticeship or co-op job is competing with others who have either training and experience, or just the degree. I suppose it depends on the employer, and what prospects he sees in you, but even the inexperienced graduate has an edge on you, with nothing but ambition to show. If favoritism through funding or tax writeoffs for the apprentice is shown, that's less of the other crowd that gets jobs. The backlash if any could be harmful to that industry, if many of the apprentices decide to drop out, and the trained people that would have taken their places normally have moved on to other venues. All speculation on my part...from the student's perspective, on the job training is in most cases much more instructive than any classroom book learning. My first few calculus classes were totally different because one taught by the book, memorize and calculate, while the other showed us why we want to do it that way.
I have very strong feelings on this subject. I went to college, as was expected of me, for a couple of years. I stopped going because I realized that it was just one BIG party, disguised as a learning institution. Also, I had to get a job to pay my long distance bills.... No free long distance on cell phones back then. Anyway, I started working, making $4.00 an hour under the table, for an interior designer. I loved my job, I gained wonderful experience, and after 6 months, I was going to appointments in people's homes, designing window treatments for them, making very professional decisions. After 3 years, I was practically running the business, under title of "Project Manager", at the ripe old age of 21. My salary had doubled ($8.00 an hour wasn't much, but it was twice as much as I had been making!) and I was signing company checks, etc. When I left that college town after 5 years, with no degree but over 4 years work experience and a great understanding for the "real world", I got a job in no time, doing what I loved to do, and I have followed the same path ever since. I am in a different field now, and I got to where I am in the same manner. I started on the business/clerical side of an engineering firm, and have worked my way up to an electrical designer in less than 4 years. Experience and the ability to learn by doing are an incredible asset, and if you make the most of your time at any job, you will reap the benefits. I had to leave the first engineering firm that I worked for, simply because in order to advance any further there, I would have needed that "piece of paper", but there are plenty of firms that emphasize the knowledge, no matter where it was acquired, and a few good ones that realize the experience is so much more valuable than the big framed receipt...
I went to a good university, learned a lot, got my "piece of paper," and have been making more than $75,000 a year (something like ~$33 an hour) since I was 22. Yeah.. college is pointless, right? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! - Warren
According to the U.S. Census bureau: Average annual earnings of adults with a... high school diploma: $22,995 bachelor's degree: $40,478 advanced (master's or doctorate) degree: $63,229 Yeah, obviously college isn't really worth the time or money.
I don't think that any of us were trying to say that college is a waste of time or not worth the money in a financial sense (correct me if I'm wrong Tristan and Jaxom). Obviously people who have degrees get offered higher paid positions. There are also plenty of work-educated "learn by doing" people making much less than degreed individuals, doing the same job, and most likely doing it better. That's just the way life goes. I know that my focus on this topic was more on the personal fulfillment found in the job, and the intimacy that is achieved when you start at the bottom and work your way up. I guess it's just a glimmer of hope for those of us with the "college just isn't my cup of tea" philosophy...
and, that's fine for you...just as long as you aren't planning on drinking really expensive tea.Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Yeah and what are they trading for this money? Is it their knowledge? How does a degree in Banking qualify a graduate to suddenly become a team leader of telesales after being at the company for half the time that others have been there (just an example but i bet its happened!)? What did they learn in Banking that contributed so greatly to their input at work? What kind of conclusion comes from the ingestion of the specialist knowledge and learning that comes from doing a degree that gives rise to a qualification for more money than somebody else. I'd say it is the graduates malleability. I have been told that Graduates get better money just becuase they have shown that they can learn. It seems to me that all most graduates take away is just the peice of paper i.e. not the sum-total of three years of learning. Shouldn't that be what the degree is??
The state runs the compulsory education system because the state needs a steady supply of homogenised, flexible and interchangeable workers trained for their places in the economic system from which the state draws its taxes and strength. It ensures through its imposed curricula that people are taught to be the right shape to fill the gaps. This is not necessarily a bad thing. But it has got out of hand. It is becoming more and more a system of indoctrination. It is encouraging to see from this discussion that so far it is not an entirely successful one, but it's getting better all the time. Nevertheless it is also a bit depressing to see so much talk of the financial benefits of the state education system. It would be very strange if we started judging our success and happiness in life by counting our money at the end of it. However it is true that as people with too much money devour more and more space and resources it gets increasingly hard to live comfortably without quite a lot of it. Competition for resources drives us ever onwards into industrial slavery. Pardon my paranoia.
Canute, I agree with you completely, and ever since I realized that things and money won't make me happier, I have been trying to eliminate all of the debt that I have taken on during the last 10 years so that I can get out of the "trap" of capitalism. Amazing how long it can take to get out of a trap that is so easy to wander into. Of course, such well laid traps are rarely avoided. Glad to see that there are others out there that see things the same way, and that there is hope for all of us that value life for what it is, not for what it costs...
