Negative numbers in nature

How does nature make minus numbers. There is no convention of a minus sign.
Answer?
In neurons, there are positive neurotransmitters and negative ones. For example acetylcholine is possitive, says go.
GABA is negative, says stop. Quantity of molecules is magnitude.
Makes huge numbers. Runs combinatorial possibilities off my calculator.

To add one add a molecule. To subtract one add a molecule to GABA.

Don't really know where to post this.
No neuron forum.

 

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minus numbers are made by having one of the integers equal to less than zero. that integer must be greater than the one it is being combined with.

very simple

 

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Thank you but I know what a minus number is.
The question was, how does a neuron know?

 

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well you know that electrons are negative, protons are positive and neutrons are not charged.

If you take the balancing requirements of all atomic particles and see that there needs to be an equal number, the neuron will be directly affected by the electrostatic make-up of the atomic particles surrounding it.

 

i think i see where your going

dont think of it as a neg, think of it as the OPOSITE of a proton ect

like north and south, anti particals and particals

 

I am not the one thinking here. It is the neuron that must do the thinking about negative numbers. It is necessary because you cannot, for example, determine direction without negative numbers.
If right is + then left is -.
If go is + then stop is -.
and so on.
Acetylcholine says go and GABA says stop.
There must be more. It must be universal over nature. Is it?

 

it doesnt care, it just reacts

its like putting acid in a base, the acid doesnt go "this is a base" it just reacts

 

It is all computation. Neurons compute enough so we can sort of talk.
Salt = acid a base ; a is a node that takes minimum of acid and base.
going = go - don't go
To me, the world is a giant calculating machine. What we can do is to find its program.

 

question for you

do you have to KNOW something is hot and that hot burns you to be burnt?

 

I do. I have robots that can feel pain. It is all calculation.
Pain is just data from and to the right place.

bye now.

Harold

 

pain is not data, it is the result of the the data being processed and interpreted.

it is more of an end result.

 

wow. I just wrote up a paper on negative numbers for cognitive science society meeting. I never thought i'd see people other than me interested in them.

cool.

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How do your robots do pain?

Mine see pain if an action is above a threshold. If so, that data is sent to the inhibit tree at the location of the action and is also sent upward to be collected as a pain tree.

I am also interested in the algebra a neuron does since I would like to know its number base.

Spacemanspiff, I have a whole mathematical system that builds trrees that can match any neuron by input size. Neuron functions are assummed. I have about 20 functions, so far. The hardware for this is 8 bit binary integers of base 256. I suspect neurons have a few more bits than that, but I really don't know.
I think this is a tool that you could use. You can make structures on paper, do them in spreadsheets and generally do for brains what switching algebra did for computers.
Ask for Hal algebra on my web site.
Harold

 

This is how pain is received and felt. If you can re-create this please let me know.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/02/20/stoics.wimps.ap/index.html

 

Read that this morning.
Robots do not have DNA. What is used instead are constant data streams.
I said before that pain was sent when the signal was above a threshold. That threshold can be globally changed in the robot simply by changing the level constant.

Pianhere = actionhere > painlimit ;only emits when a > pl
actionhere = doactions - donotdoactions - Painhere

; > is a GTNode. It is 0 unless the input is greater than the inhibit input then it sends out the input signal.
; - is a CNode. It constantly provides difference of its inputs.
So we have local inhibition here, and the pain signal is sent up to a pain collector which combines all painhere to painanywhere.

In a robot, or animachine, all the rules of physics and biology must be followed. I am at the point now where rules are very few and those are questionable. I have the first level done and the second level is partly done. I don't know if I will have time to finish all this.

Thanks for the post.

 

as for negative number in nature (as opposed to just in the brain), they don't really exsist. as was mentioned above, there are opposites; there are also really small amounts of things. but as far as we know, there isn't really negative "stuff". even if you have one anti-proton, you still have one of something, which is positive. IMO, negative numbers are a human invention.

when talking about the brain, chaos theory and attracting as detracting point are very usefull in the discussion of self-regulating systems. for instance, the presence of molecule x causes the amount of molecule y to go down. the lack of molecule y prevents the production of molecule x. there is therefore an attracting point for both molecules x and y, wherein a certain amount of each will most often be found in an uninterrupted system.

For a more concrete example, say you like philly cheesesteaks. you go and eat one. the next day, you have a second one. you do this for a month, and you realise you are really sick of cheese steaks. so you stop eating them all together. a few months go by, and you realise you miss the taste of cheesesteak, so you go have one. The amount of cheese steaks that you desire is being self regulated based on the amount of cheese steak you consume. the more you eat, the less you want, and vise versa.


so in this discussion, negative nembers equate to small amounts of, or a complete lack of a given molecule. positive numbers would equate to large or increasing amounts of a given molecule. these systems in the brain largley self-regulte based on simply chemistry, and behind that, simple physics. chemical bonds between like molecules and the breakdown of others will invite the desire to replace the supply. you don't need to know that you want more cheesesteaks, you just know you do because they provide both physical and psycological satisfaction.

 

I think negative numbers are a human invention, but I see neural transmitters that say stop, and others that say go, but they do not need to be negative.

That is why I asked the forum.

I conclude there are no negative numbers in nature.