Then, Sir, The Judge Is An Ass

[goofyfish]

A Ventura County judge has sentenced 23-year-old Andrew Fonseca to a year in jail for having consensual sex with the 14-year-old girl he later married. His wife, now 15, begged Judge Kevin J. McGee to free her husband and wept on hearing the sentence. The mother-in-law told the judge, "Andrew is living at our house, married to our daughter and he works and supports her. It's been the best thing that ever happened to her." McGee’s answer was to break up the new family and cause its breadwinner to register as a sex offender. As a result, Mr. Fonseca will never be able to work again as a teacher. (Story here – registration required (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-fonseca14dec14.story))

If Judge McGee is of old California stock, he is almost certainly descended from women who married in their very early teens or even younger. Some were indeed pitiable victims, married off by their parents to much older men for, essentially, monetary consideration. Others were not at all pitiable. Like young Mrs. Fonseca, they considered themselves fortunate. Whether these couplings were held to be good or evil depended not on the calendar, as our laws do today, but on the individual circumstances.

Let's consider the circumstances of the present case, then. Which man would you rather see hanging around the girls' locker room, Kevin J. McGee or Andrew Fonseca?

:m: Peace.

[Adam]

It used to be common in Europe - and still is in many places - for girls to be married off as soon as they can reproduce, to much older men.

But...

I think what the judge did was riciculous. But also, the young man should have the wits to wait. The girl was 14. If she truly loves him, then he can afford to wait until she is 16 or whatever the legal screwing age is.

[Mystech]

At one time I'm kinda' sceptical about how well such a relationship could work out, seeing how as the bride still has a LOT of growing up yet to do, and being locked down like that couldn't be a good thing for her, but the judge's reaction was WAY to harsh.

[*stRgrL*]

The judges reaction was a too harsh I agree. But would you want a teacher who apparently finds 14 years olds attractive, teaching your child?

If Judge McGee is of old California stock, he is almost certainly descended from women who married in their very early teens or even younger. Some were indeed pitiable victims, married off by their parents to much older men for, essentially, monetary consideration.

Thats why laws were passed, to protect young children. You and i both know that a 14, even a 16 year old isnt making rational decisions when it comes to love.

Like young Mrs. Fonseca, they considered themselves fortunate.

I think she is a little too young to know what is good for her, dont you?


One last thing: I have a feeling that the husband is actually supporting or partially supporting the whole family. Of course the parents wont object.

Take care:)

[spookz]

i am itching to comment but wont

:D

[*stRgrL*]

Oh please do! What fun is arguing with yourself:D

[tastybrain]

Yes, too harsh. Whether the parents are motivated by money or not, is not an issue in considering whether this guy in his twenties deserves to go to jail. Whether or not he's a pervert, pedophile or otherwise.... well, i'd have to have a look at miss teeny-bop to judge that.

"But would you want a teacher who apparently finds 14 years olds attractive, teaching your child? " (by sTRgRL)


Would you want a college professor who found young women attractive teaching your children? Some fourteen year-olds are a bit big for their emotional britches, if you know what I mean. We can't make any assumptions here about this guy.

Is it a bit fishy, yeah, but let's be open-minded about it.

[Asguard]

that cant happen here

one of the exseptions on STATITORY rape (as orpose to normal rape or whatever it should be called) is that u r or belive to be married to the person under 16

[tastybrain]

yeah, i'm used to not finding that ideal. but then, here's to hoping...

And, as a wise man once said.... "you are entitled to your opinion---you are entitled to be wrong." -C.R.

maybe he has a point....

[Xev]

Are we missing something?

He raped a 14 year old.
Admittedly, it's a bit grey -- 14 is almost age of consent -- but I, for one, don't like the idea of excusing rapists simply because they marry their victims.

Frankly, it sounds like the parents sold her ass - quite literally. The man is a predator, and his sentance is appropriate.

/None of the above should be taken completely at face value, as I am only on my first cup of coffee/

[tastybrain]

uh, rape? that's a bit steep of a claim. the sentence was handed down under the terms of consensual sex (yes, 14 years olds make those decisions, whether or not you think they should)...


anyway, not sure i'd call it rape. with or without coffee....;)

[Neville]

I agree. There are some extreme view here. i think it should be pointed out that biologically some people can have children at this age and sometimes younger! It is decided (presumably) that the age of consent is 16 because this is when mandatory education has finished. While this appears to be because of an effort to create a more 'enlightened' and educated society it could be questioned. It should also be noted that this is the age of consent i.e. they are deemed mature enough to understand what they are consenting to however this surely cannot be the case. Surely while still a teen-ager (inlcuding nine-teen) yrs old they are still withing puberty and as such are not an adult yet!! They cannot be mature enough to understand their decision until they are an adult. The age of consent is 16 could surely be because they are old enough to work and earn their own money then and so are out of the states control (to an extent!) and so legislation does not really have much choice i.e. they are old enough to earn companies their money and so are being screwed here and to ban 'screwing' in general would be a contradiction: earning companies their money by giving them your labour and allowing them to take most of the money earned is exploitation so power physical power relations (?) must be allowed.

[Xev]

tasty, I was quite capable of giving consent at 14. But fucking a 14 year old is statutory rape in most states of the Union.

[Neville]

Yeah but informed consent is a different thing Xev! Informed consent!

[Asguard]

xev its not statitory rape in australia

as i said there r exeseptions to statitory rape, if u belived the person was over 16, if u are or belived urself to be married to the person in question

so from my point of view its NOT rape, even tho its not something i would do and i find the whole thing quite sick its still not illegal if they had been here

[Xev]

Asguard, it's statutory rape here, and that's all that matters.

[CounslerCoffee]

In Iowa the legal age of consent is 14, as it is in South Carolina. Zimbabwes' age of consent is 12!Heres a list:

http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm

[tastybrain]

i checked out the site C. Coffee listed above and read the laws for California. It does state that a "previous or current dating or marital relationship" doesn't nullify the case. So the judge was certainly within his right to hand down the sentence (which was the maximum jail time). So, yes, he was legally guilty of statutory rape. Also, the laws listed the reasons why so much attention is given to statutory rape in California. Apparently, teen births are a big problem in CA. The statistics also point to teen births by men over 20 are highly associated with the spread of STD's. All good reasons to prosecute an offender.

However, i'm not sure these issues are so applicable to the defendent in this case. He is supporting her. (She won't burden the welfare budget of the state). They were married with consent. She's legally able to get married, but not legally able to have intercourse with her husband? Silly, if you ask me. Change the marital laws, if that's the case.

Oh, yes, and I wonder if she's pregnant now...

[goofyfish]

Why?

[Neville]

Good points tastybrain. but yeah, why do you wonder that?

[tastybrain]

Oh, sorry... read in the laws for the state of Cali, that teen birth rates fathered by men over 20 are sky-rocketted. if he got her pregnant, then he's a little more culpable than if he didn't... that's all...:)

[angel_20124]

Comicsans comicsans comicsans comicsans

I do not think that the Judge made the right call by putting that 23 year old guy away because I do not think that he did any thing wrong the 14 now 15 year old girl was just as much a part of this as the 23 year old was and an way she she told him that it was all right for him to have sex with her.

Any way after words they both got married to each other any way and her mom and dad even said that he was living with them and souuporting her while working I think that he should be let out of jail because it just as much her doing too.

[angel_20124]

What would it mader if he got her pragent because of the fact that they got married and he is soupporting her and living with her too.

[mouse]

Asguard, it's statutory rape here, and that's all that matters.
So, it is really a question whether a judge should just blindly apply the law or take into consideration some context before doing so.

If the first is true, why do judges exist? We could replace them quite easily with an automated process if their only function is to look up which laws were violated and what sentences would correspond to those violations.

[angel_20124]

I am not saying that we should replace the judge or any judge for that matter but the fact is that her mom and dad are soupporting the marriage and it also seems like they are also ok with her being peragent and it seems like they really like thier son in law if the mom and dad let her get married to him and are ok with her being peragent then her husband should not be in jail.

[jps]

statutory rape laws are in place to protect minors.
It seems that in this case following the letter of the law has the opposite effect of the laws intent.
Is this girl better off now that her family is not being supported?

[Xev]

He took advantage of a child. He broke the law, and it's a law I support.

He should suffer, yes?

The problem is balancing his suffering with the harm we would do to her child - who does rely on his economic support.

Is this girl better off now that her family is not being supported?

So it's okay to break the law if you're able to pay your way out of it? Should we go back to the Danegeld? Can I kill someone I don't like if I support his widow?

I don't see why there's such sympathy for this slime.
Sentance him to hard labour if that'll provide for the kid, but for fucks sake, don't just let him get away with it.

/Edit:

I realize that my reaction is primarily emotional, but I really am shocked at this sympathy for a child molester. *Shrugs* Just one of the few classes of people I truely despise as classes, rather than despise simply as people.

[one_raven]

Originally posted by *stRgrL*
Thats why laws were passed, to protect young children. You and i both know that a 14, even a 16 year old isnt making rational decisions when it comes to love.

I think she is a little too young to know what is good for her, dont you?

I think that really all depends on the emotional and intellectual maturity of the individual.

On the whole I don't think that girls in this culture are emotionally mature or stable enough to make these decisions, but is exactly the point.

It is a cultural, societal issue.
We raise children at a certain rate.
We coddle and over protect them.
There is a reason that most girls can start reproducing at or before the age of 13.

Depending on how they are raised, I think that a girl at 13 - 16 years old CAN be mature and aware enough to make that decision for herself.

However, in this society, that girl is very few and far between, and the laws are designed to protect the majority of people.

I agree with Adam.
He should have been responsible enough to wait until she was 16 rather than risking their relationship and life together to satisfy his horny desires.

[The Marquis]

bullshit. Thats all it is.

I mean personally, I see no attraction in a 14 year old whatsoever. However, we know absolutely nothing of the circumstances of this arrangement, these people, and cannot make a judgement.
.
Our society wants to make laws to "protect us" against so many things... this is one of them. we're not allowed to do anything at all until our society says it's ok. Crap, crap, and more crap.

Many of us here would know that as 14 year olds, we knew so much and so little. Are we going to legisislate against what we think we know? Are we going to tell people that we know better than them? Are we going to legislate against them knowing anything at all? Are we going to tell people what is right and what is not? Enter 1984....

Fuck it. Fuck this. Her family approves, presumably she does, he does... and "they" fuck up any potential life they might have had.

This is not some pedophile fucking up someones life, this is a guy who decided he wanted to marry a girl who wanted him. And fuck anyone who decides that they know better than the participants.
Who is this "judge"? What credentials does he have? Does he know everything about this relationship? I mean fuck, if it turns out later that she doesnt want this guy, then fucking get a divorce, is there a problem? So the girl is 14. So fucking what, does that mean she doesn't know what she wants? And what is everyone who doesn't "approve" going to do if it turns out they stay together for life, not to mention him not being able to teach anymore? Say "sorry, we had no idea it was real we just thought we knew better than you"?

Fucking useless "we know better than you do's".

[angel_20124]

I do have to say that I agree with The Marquis.
How can some body come along and say that a 14 year old or even an 16 year old is not matuer enough to make thier own decison on if they are in love with some one or not I mean havent any of you been so in love with your boy friends or girl friends that you thought that you wanted to marry them I mean come on the law can't tell us if we want to be with some one or not they can not make that decison for us the only person that can make that decison for us is us we say if we are in love with some one or not we say if we want to be with some or not and for a matter of fact thier are alot of 14 and 16 year olds that are matuer enough to make the decison on if they want to get married or not.

[Vortexx]

...I bet he banged the mother of the child also...I have seen familly affairs like that on Jerry Springer. Such is life in a trashy trailer park....