what is pain?

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by jps, Dec 11, 2002.

  1. jps Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,872
    This question comes from reading this article on plants and pain:
    http://www.sciencenet.org.uk/database/Biology/0211/b01052d.html
    Is pain more than a "response to physical stress aimed at reducing that stress", something that is shared by all living things? If so at what point(if ever) do we draw the line between pain that is and is not morally acceptable to inflict. For example, some people feel that it is wrong to eat meat because it is cruel to the animals whereas others feel that only humans are worthy of this consideration. Few would argue that we have an obligation to shield vegetables from pain. What is the reasoning behind these distinctions?
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Mr. G reality.sys Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,191
    jds:

    I imagine that physical pain has at least two, and probably more, purposes as a feedback mechanism: the central nervous system signaling warning to the brain when the body is reaching (or has surpassed) it limits of safe function/operation under mechanical stress and under environmental stress.

    Emotional pain presumably has similar purpose--behavior modification--but in a more complicated, harder to characterize sense.

    As for the disinctions we make between acceptable and unacceptable infliction of pain, I'd say acceptable is the minimum required for survival.

    Acceptable for survival: a much easier distinction for an individual to make, but far more complex a distinction for a society. Individuals differ in their basic survival needs, so acceptable minimum has varying definition.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Neville Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    696
    A plant has no sense of being so it is not aware that it is in pain. It is numb to the world and as such can be used for purposes such as gathering the minerals and protiens from the earth that we need for survival so that it may be eaten by animals. That may be its purpose in life. I wonder how evolution would explain the existence of plants!?
    It appears that the plants response cited in the article is a physical one and cannot be classified as pain. Pain is an emotion which plants do not have. It could be said that pain is a motivation to remain in existence: as a being. It could also be said plants would not be classified as beings to begin with despite the fact that they are in existence and therefore, are! However with regards to any claims that plants therefore should not be eaten, proteins and minerals must be consumed for anything to remain in existence.
    A plant has no sense-of-being and is therefore suitable for consumption, some vegetarians would say.
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. jps Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,872
    but where do you draw the line between what does and does not have a sense of being?
     
  8. pumpkinsaren'torange Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,159
    plants do not have a central nervous system, therefore, they don't feel pain.
     
  9. Merlijn curious cat Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,014
    so the CNS is the magic substance?! :bugeye:
    I believe I know some AI researchers who would disagree on that the CNS is a sine qua non for pain (or any other sensation)
     
  10. pumpkinsaren'torange Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,159

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    -->

    if plants feel pain, then he does, too!!
     
  11. Merlijn curious cat Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,014
  12. pumpkinsaren'torange Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,159
  13. Neville Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    696

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    Well that doesnt apply to me because i dont think that plants can feel pain.
    I suppose it would be where something realises that it is a being and can interact within its environment e.g. If you kick a plant it does not move but if you kick a dog then it will jump up or move out of the way. Id say that this is true for all creatures that have a sense of being. What makes this true is that fact that the animal knows that if it moves it can avoid such things. It is aware that it exists in its environment. A plant isnt. There are very simple (in terms of genetics) creatures who live underwater in shells and when they poke their heads out, if a shadow passes iver the top they pull their heads back in. This is done because it is aware that it can be seen and so moves. It is aware that it is a being although not as aware as us. I doubt if it could ever be taught or learn problem solving because it is not as aware as us of how to interact with the environment because they have less of a sense of being.
     
  14. Merlijn curious cat Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,014
    I can see: he is getting soree and blue allready
     
  15. hazy Registered Member

    Messages:
    16
    Animals have evolved like human beings to feel this necessary pain, whereas most plants are immobile and do not need such complex neural systems.

    If human were vegetarian/vegan, we wouldn't have to breed so many livestock, which consume alot more plants than we do.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  16. Neville Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    696
    Good point hazy

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    Welcome to sciforums too

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2002
  17. pumpkinsaren'torange Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,159
    :m: plants don't have a CNS. *deja-vu*:bugeye:

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     

Share This Page