The Bhagavad-Gita

[UltiTruth]

The Bhagavad-Gita has much for every one to ponder upon and this thread is for everyone to contribute on snippets from the Gita.

This is what I saw on a calendar a few years ago, and this really changed my way of thinking after:

"You were born with nothing
and would die with nothing;
So why do you grieve on losing something in between thinking it is yours?" (Bhagavat-Gita)

[kmguru]

The problem with philosophy of life in any religion is that it only kicks in after ones basic human needs are met: such as food, clothing and shelter.

I love Gita but only at the highest level of Maslov's heirarchy of needs....same for Ten Commandments or "Buddham Saranum Gachhami"...

[UltiTruth]

I agree km.
But this phiolosophy has much to make a person detached. Did you know that the above verse is commonly played/recited when somebody departs! It is a soother in that one gets a feeling that the departed one would be met again, and that we are just miniscule parts of an infinite game.

And maybe it also allows for becoming less possessive with everything in the world, save the basic needs as you mentioned.
Thoughts?

[EvilPoet]

"Brooding about sensuous objects
makes attachment to them grow;
from attachment desire arises,
from desire anger is born.

From anger comes confusion;
from confusion memory lapses;
from broken memory understanding is lost;
from loss of understanding, he is ruined."
-Bhagavad-Gita 2:62-63

_____

"When he renounces all desires
and acts without craving,
possessiveness,
or individuality, he finds peace.

This is the place of the infinite spirit;
achieving it, one is freed from delusion;
abiding in it even at the time of death,
one finds the pure calm of infinity."
-Bhagavad-Gita 2:71-72

[kmguru]

The degree of possessiveness is akin to the "Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder". One person's desire is another person's need. Unlike Bible that is claimed to be written in stone as the God's word, Gita is written by philosophers. When there is doubt...I always try to go to the source...in this case the philosophy of Vedas.

It is not true that we are born with nothing. We are born with an operating system and a body with sensory perceptions that acquires knowledge as days pass into months and years. By any economy standards the value for a human being is more than nothing. The universe created itself and went through hoops to create this earth and go through Matschya Avatar (fish incarnation) all the way to Rama Avatar (human) for nothing?

The point is, our emotions are a part of who we are. It is in our very soul. And if it takes grief to center oneself - so be it. And reciting to solace one is also a part of the big picture. One without the other is like a day without the night.

The key is in balance...there is another recitation during ones passing anniversery that says....O! soul, come in darkness and go in light. Extrapolated, it also means that one comes in darkness, and ignorance and dies with the knowledge. One may not be able to take physical properties but sure can take the knowledge that was aquired during ones life time.

Imagine at the moment of death, your soul (Information - the memory, application program) was transfered to another body in another galaxy far far away...with your new body, you will still remember who you are and all the knowledge you have. That is "something" on anybody's book....right?

Just some thoughts....

[UltiTruth]

kmguru,
May be we are talking about possessiveness towards different things. Man might be born with the Operating system, but all required software is loaded after birth. And at death, eveything on the system is formatted.
(Hmm... did you say Opera 6 was better?)
I think the verse is about material possessions on the earth, including the relationships with other human beings. All of these are developed after birth and cease at death. The soul according to Bhagavad-Gita is immortal and keeps moving up the chain to reach God.

[kmguru]

My point is , the soul can not move up the chain without a good understanding of the life on earth, that includes earthly matter. Everything that you see on earth - whether man-made or natural is part of earth and understanding things as well as relationships is what fills the knowledge basket.

As I said, being a vegetable can not be a path to nirvana....

BTW: No software is loaded after birth. Only data flows from sensory perception. The decision system is besed on the primary application that one comes with. Otherwise, the soul can not move up the chain....

[UltiTruth]

So what would the verse convey in that case?
And you are saying that the relationships and bondages are important?

[kmguru]

To acknowledge ones limitations and do everything in balance...

Yes, relationships and bondages are important. That is how the soul learns both the darkness and light...to get a complete picture of creation.

To reduce the unnecessary pain and suffering, one needs to do the work with excesive emotional detachment but not a complete absense of it...otherwise you will turn into a robot of today - lose your humanity.

[UltiTruth]

I did read your post somewhere here and do accept that there are various ways to reach salvation (Rajayoga...) and that includes a family life too, but was always sure that the relationships and bondages end when a person departs.

Anyways, there is always a feeling that the dead people return to the same family as the next baby. So, maybe you are right!

[kmguru]

Originally posted by UltiTruth
Anyways, there is always a feeling that the dead people return to the same family as the next baby. So, maybe you are right!

According to a friend who is a Kabala practitioner, in my family - the parents (me & Mrs) have gone through several cycles together while the kids are from elsewhere met in the astral plane.

Go figure...

[Rick]

"According to a friend who is a Kabala practitioner, in my family - the parents (me & Mrs) have gone through several cycles together while the kids are from elsewhere met in the astral plane.

Go figure...


plz help me in figuring!!??:confused:


bye!:confused:

[Rick]

What i Kabala?


Is it an english version of an actual word you could say? i would appreciate some help.thanks.



bye!

[kmguru]

Hi zion:

Do a google search on kabala (also at www.kabala.org), you will find a lot of hits. It is a Jewish mysticism which is before Moses I think. My feeling is that Judaism and Hinduism come from the same roots. Had Hitler known that, who had an obsession with Hindu secrets (Mysticism, Swastika, Arya etc) - he would have behaved differently.

Anyway, since you are learning the astral projections - keep the practice. Gradually you will move through time and space as in to the past and see what you have been. After a few years, you may move through other worlds and/or dimensions.

For the last two years, I am having lucid dreams about worlds that are similar but different from us. I do not know, if there are separate Earths with similar conditions within our universe or they are in other dimensions (branes).

When I had my first astral projection at age 14/15, I was floating close to the center of our galaxy in a matter of seconds. That means the rules are different and are purely information based (akashic records?).

[Rick]

<i>"Anyway, since you are learning the astral projections - keep the practice. Gradually you will move through time and space as in to the past and see what you have been. After a few years, you may move through other worlds and/or dimensions. "</i>

Very interesting indeed.But how is the higher level attained in these projections?

And though it may sound silly,But whenever i project,i feel like its the <i>real</i> me whos there on the plane,i mean i feel pure!

bye!

[kmguru]

It comes naturally with an open mind to possibilities. Your mind has safety system built in so as not to expose you to alien situations. But as you think and accept about diffrent possibilities, the mind gradually opens up to link itself to the universal consciousness. It does not happen overnight anymore than a child can understand complex structures and meanings without the knowledge behind it. It frustrates a lot of people who can say that I have a masters in so and so, why can not I understand the higher functions?

Just as our neural pathways are formed at childhood for pattern recognition and understanding, so the next level takes time. And just as a child can get hurt with wrong activities or understanding, so can the new information cause confusion if not assimilated properly. I think, we are better prepared to handle such new information than our ancient counterparts - since we have more detail knowledge in science and technology. Without a full understanding of physical laws and science, it is difficult to use the new capabilities. Imagine a laptop in the hands of a person in 5th century...or understanding of lever principle to move a large object.

In my case, when I projected myself to the galaxy, I was on a chaise lounge outside in a spring night looking up at the stars. Suddenly my body felt very light and up up I went. I thought, it was cool. At the time, I thought it was just a dream until I saw the picture of Earth in Life magazine. Many years later I saw the pictures from Hubble Telescope that matched like a deja vu.

[Nightpoet]

Originally posted by kmguru
To reduce the unnecessary pain and suffering, one needs to do the work with excesive emotional detachment but not a complete absense of it...otherwise you will turn into a robot of today - lose your humanity.

Isn't it more just recognizing your emotions for what they are, and letting them go? To me detatchment means feeling nothing, but the way I've had these pasages explaine to me is that there is a feeling of serenity and it isn't that emotions aren't felt, its that they're recognised and they are not held on to. Once you realise you have anger, why hold on to it? It'll only make you miserable.

Maybe that's the same thing...

[kmguru]

We can neatpick...but it is the same thing. The way the books say and even Buddhism teaches is that one must act like a lotus leaf where the worldly affairs including the emotions are like water drops on the leaf...they barely touch and more like float on the leaf...

While, we mere mortals would have difficulty in achieving that state due to our responsibilities and obligations and social presentations...one must try atleast to keep such emotions floating in oneself.

[Avatar]

one must act like a lotus leaf where the worldly affairs including the emotions are like water drops on the leaf...they barely touch and more like float on the leaf... a beautiful metaphor, one can only learn from it

[EvilPoet]

I agree Avatar. :)

You know, it reminds me of this
excerpt from the Dhammapada:

If you are filled with desire
Your sorrows will swell
Like grass after the rain.

But if you subdue desire
Your sorrows fall from you
Like drops of water from a lotus
flower.

[sycoindian]

kmguru..

talking about astral projections...

did you learn to do it naturally?? just interested in knowing how the whole thing works...

[kmguru]

Yes, at the time, I was just a super curious kid. I learned a lot from reading books, experiementing and had a teacher/mentor/tutor to answer a few questions. Later on I collected a lot of information without giving away what I was upto from various sources.

My Dad was a major factor in helping me to separate wheat from chaff. There are a boat load of misinformation out there....

[evolove]

If you want to understand the Gita but "God Talks With Arjuna" by Paramahansa Yogananda

[Lykan]

"He who experiences the unity of life sees his own Self in all beings, and all beings in his own Self, and looks on everything with an impartial eye." - Bhagavad Gita

[UltiTruth]

But is that really possible, Lykan?

[Lykan]

Yes. And in order to experience it you first have to be open-minded enough to believe that it's possible.

[Lykan]

Originally posted by EvilPoet
If you are filled with desire
Your sorrows will swell
Like grass after the rain.

But if you subdue desire
Your sorrows fall from you
Like drops of water from a lotus
flower.

I wonder... It seems to me that the point of conflict isn't desire, but attachment to what one desires.

Would Buddha have become enlightened if he hadn't been filled with a strong desire for something greater than the existence he had been living -- enough to leave his luxurious comfortable home and go meditate by the river? What if he had "subdued" that desire and instead remained at home?

I say that attachment is the cause of suffering and sorrow, not desire. Desire in and of itself is good and healthy -- it's just all in how you handle it.

[kmguru]

"Kamana" in Sanskrit is translated as desire.


I would like to translate that as covet or lust. Then it makes sense.

Gita always shows the right path. Even with examples, it is difficult to interprete proper way. Otherwise, Gautama would not have started another religion...

[EvilPoet]

Originally posted by Lykan
I say that attachment is the cause of suffering and sorrow,
not desire. Desire in and of itself is good and healthy -- it's
just all in how you handle it.

Desire

If you sleep
Desire grows in you
Like a vine in the forest.

Like a monkey in the forest
You jump from tree to tree,
Never finding the fruit --
From life to life,
Never finding peace.

If you are filled with desire
Your sorrows swell
Like the grass after the rain.

But if you subdue desire
Your sorrows shall fall from you
Like drops of water from a lotus flower.

This is good counsel
And it is for everyone:
As the grass is cleared for the fresh
root,
Cut down desire
Lest death after death crush you
As a river crushes the helpless reeds.

For if the roots hold firm,
A felled tree grows up again.
If desires are not uprooted,
Sorrows grow again in you.

Thirty-six streams are rushing toward
you!
Desire and pleasure and lust. . .
Play in your imagination with them
And they will sweep you away.
Powerful streams!
They flow everywhere.

Strong vine!
If you see it spring up,
Take care!
Pull it out by the roots.

Pleasures flow everywhere.
You float upon them
And are carried from life to life.

Like a hunted hare you run,
The pursuer of desire pursued,
Harried from life to life.

O seeker!
Give up desire,
Shake off your chains.

You have come out of the hollow
Into the clearing.
The clearing is empty.
Why do you rush back into the
hollow?

Desire is a hollow
And people say "Look!
He was free.
But now he gives up his freedom."

It is not iron that imprisons you
Nor rope nor wood,
But the pleasure you take in gold
and jewels,
In sons and wives.

Soft fetters,
Yet they hold you down.
Can you snap them?

There are those who can,
Who surrender to the world,
Forsake desire, and follow the way.

O slave of desire,
Float upon the stream.
Little spider, stick to your web.
Or else abandon your sorrows for
the way.

Abandon yesterday, and tomorrow,
And today.
Cross over to the father shore,
Beyond life and death.

Do your thoughts trouble you?
Does passion disturb you?
Beware of this thirstiness
Lest your wishes become desires
And desire binds you.

Quieten your mind.
Reflect.
Watch.
Nothing binds you.
You are free.

You are strong.
You have come to the end.
Free from passion and desire,
You have stripped the thorns from
the stem.
This is you last body.

You are wise.
You are free from desire
And you understand words
And the stitching together of words.
And you want nothing.

"Victory is mine,
Knowledge is mine,
And all purity,
All surrender.

"I want nothing.
I am free.
I found my way.
Whom shall I call Teacher?

The gift of truth is beyond giving.
The taste beyond sweetness,
The joy beyond joy.

The end of desire is the end of sorrow

The fool is his own enemy.
Seeking wealth, he destroys himself.

Seek rather the other shore.

Weeds choke the field.
Passion poisons the nature of man,
And hatred, illusion, and desire.

Honor the man who is without
passion,
Hatred, illusion, and desire.

What you give to him
Will be given back to you,
And more.

Source: Dhammapada The Sayings of the Buddha

[Lykan]

Originally posted by EvilPoet
Desire

Source: Dhammapada The Sayings of the Buddha

I wonder... Translation from one language to another ends up distorting the original teachings to whatever extent. I wonder if Buddha were to have said this in modern English, how he would have put it.

[EvilPoet]

Lykan,

I have no clue how Buddha would put
it. It is an Interesting thought though. :)

[moonman]

Perhaps, I don't know if the meaning is distorted though.

Then again in a poem, one word may speak for a thousand.
Love is not mentioned in this one.

What if you desire to be able to love all equaly?

[Rajagopals]

--- content removed ---

[kmguru]

Well, why dont you start the translation yourself and let us have a glimpse of the document....

[EvilPoet]

I have heard of the Uttara Gita but not the Uthara Gita.

[kmguru]

Uttara Gita

I am not sure if Uttara Gita is written by the same folks who gave us Bhagavad Gita. Anyway here is a glimpse:

CHAPTER -I-

ARJUNA, after the successful issue of the battle of Kuruksetra, amidst the pleasures of rank, riches, and prosperity, had forgotten the priceless instructions imparted to him by Sri Krishna, on the eve of that memorable battle. He now asks Kesava again to propound to him the secrets of the Brahma-jnana.

ARJUNA ASKED:

1, 2 & 3.

O Kesava, [ Kesava means the manifested Logos, the union of Visnu, Brahmã and Mahesvara, or the combined Sattva, Rajas, and Tamas Gunas. The word "Kesava" is from Ka-isa-va] tell me the knowledge of that Brahman that is One, and without its like and rival, without Upãdhi (attributes) beyond the Akãsa, source of all purity, that which cannot be approached by argument, or reached by conception, the unknowable and the unknown, and that which is absolutely free from births and deaths. O Kesava, impart to me the knowledge of that which is Absolute, the only above ode Eternal Peace and Purity, the Instrumental (Nimitta) and Material (Upãdãna) cause of the Universe, though itself causeless and free from all connection. Tell me, O Kesava, the knowledge of that which dwells in every heart, and that which combines the fact of knowledge and the thing knowable in Itself.

SRI BHAGAVAN SAID:

4. O thou long-armed one, thou who art the crest-jewel of the Pandu dynasty, O Arjuna, thou art most intelligent, because thou hast asked me a question which is at once most sublime and magnificent - to attain the knowledge of the boundless Tattvas. Hear, therefore, O Arjuna, attentively what I wish to say on the matter.

5. He is called Brahman, who, devoid of all desires, and by the process of Yoga, sits in that state of meditation in which he assimilates his own Self-mantra (Pranava or Aum) with the Hamsa (Paramãtma).

6. For the human being, the attainment of the state of Hamsa (I am He), within his own limits, is considered the highest jnana. That which remains merely a passive witness between the Hamsa and Non-Hamsa, i.e., the Paramãtman and the destructible portion of the human being, is the Aksara Purusa in the form of Kutasha-Caitanya (Atma-Buddhi). When the knower finds and sees this Akara Purusa in him, he is saved from all future troubles of birth and death in this world.

7. The word "Kãkin" is the compound of ka + aka + in. The first syllable Ka means happiness, the second Aka means misery, and the third In denotes possessing: therefore one that possesses happiness and misery - the Jiva - is called "Kãkin". Again the vowel a at the end of the syllable Ka is the conscious manifestation of Mula-Prakrti or the Jiva form of the Brahman; therefore when this a disappears, there remains only the K, which is the One great indivisible Bliss - Brahman.

8. He who is always able to retain his life-breath (Prãnavãyu) within himself, both at the time of walking and rest, can extend the period of his life over a thousand years.

9. Conceive so much of the manifested Akãsa (sky) as can be brought within the range of one's own mental view, as one undivided Brahman then merge the Atman into it, and it, into your own self; this done, i.e., when the Atman is made one with the Akãsa, think of nothing else - as moon, stars, etc. - in the sky. [ This is the Nirvikalpa Samãdhi - the subjective concentration of the mind, in which both the mind and life-breath become still like a flame without air.

There are two well-known processes of practising Yoga: viz., to concentrate the mind (a) at the point where the nose ends, and (b) where the root of the nose begins. The result in both cases is the same as are the further processes of practice, but in either case the instruction of a Guru is necessary, otherwise it is absolutely impossible to succeed. ]

10. Such a seeker of Brahman, after fixing his mind as aforesaid, and shutting himself out of all objective knowledge (Ajnãna), should hold fast the support of unchangeable Jnãna, and think of the One Indivisible Brahman in the inner and outer Akãsa, that exists at the end of the nose, and into which the life-breath merges.

11. Freed from both nostrils where the life-breath disappears, there (i.e., in the heart) fix thy mind, O Pãrtha, [ another name of Arjuna. ] and meditate upon the All-Supreme Isvara.

12. Think of the Siva, there, as devoid of all conditions of life, pure but without lustre (Prabhã), mindless, Buddhi-less.

13. The signs of Samãdhi are the negation of all positive conditions of life and the complete enthralment or subjugation of all objective thoughts.

14. Although the body of the meditator may now and hen become somewhat unsteady at the time of meditation, yet he is to consider that the Paramãtma is immovable. This is the sign of the Samãdhi.

15. He that considers the Paramãtman as without Mãtra, i.e., neither short nor long in metre, soundless, unconnected with vowels, and beyond the Bindu, (Point) i.e., Anusvara, (which produces a nasal sound), beyond the Nãda, i.e., the voice that rises from the throat, etc., and beyond the Kalãs, i.e., the different phases of this sound, is the real knower of the Vedas.

16. He that has acquired Vijnãna, (the Supreme Knowledge) by the aid of Jnana, i.e.., the knowledge derived from books of Philosophy and instruction from a Guru, and has learned to place the object of this knowledge in his heart, and he that has acquired peace of mind, such a person requires no Yoga for further practice, and no meditation for further conception.

17. The syllable (Aum) with which the Vedas begin, which figures in the middle of the Vedas, and with which the Vedas end, unites Prakrti with its Own Self; but that which is beyond this Prakrti-united-Pranava is Mahesvara.

18. A boat is necessary until one gets to the other side of the river, but when a man once crosses the stream, the boat is no longer necessary for his purpose.

19. As a husbandman throws away the husks, after thrashing out the corn, so does also an intelligent person give up the study of books after he has attained knowledge from them.

20. As light is necessary to find the wished-for object in a dark chamber, but when once the object is found, the light is put aside as unnecessary: so also when the Object of the Supreme Knowledge, that is kept hidden by the illusions of Maya, is once found out by the torch of Knowledge, the Knowledge itself is afterwards put aside as unnecessary.

21. As milk is not necessary for a person who is already satisfied with the drink of nectar, so also Vedas are not required for man who has already known the Supreme Deity.

22. Thrice fortunate is the Yoga who has thus satiated his thirst by the nectar of knowledge; he is henceforth bound to no Karma, as he has become the knower of the Tattvas.

23. He that has known the unspeakable Pranava as the one continuous sound of a big gong, or like one unbroken thread (Dhãrã) of oil, without division and separation, understand the real meaning of the Vedas.

24. He, that uses his own Atman as one Arani (a piece of wood that produces fire when rubbed), and Pranava as the other and constantly rubs the two together, he will very soon see the hidden fire thus produced by the friction of the two, even as he produces the fire that is hidden in the bosom of the Arani

25. As long as one does not see within himself that sublime Rupa which is purer than purity itself, and which beams forth like a smokeless light, he should continue his meditations with a steady mind, fixing his thoughts upon that Rupa (form).

26. The Jîvãtman, although (considered to be) very distant from Paramãtman, is still very near to it; and although it has a body, still it is without body; the Jîvãtman itself is pure, omnipotent and self-evident.

27. Although it (Jîvãtman) is (considered to be) in the body, still it is not in the body; it is not affected by any change of the body, nor does it take part in any enjoyment appertaining to the body nor can it be bound down or conditioned by anything that binds the body.

28 & 29. All oil exists in the seed (i.e., pervading the whole of it) and butter (Ghrta) in cheese (Ksîra, i.e., milk boiled and thickened). As smell exists in the flower, and juice in fruits, so does the Jîvãtman which permeates the whole universe, also exists in the human body. Like the fire hidden in the bosom of wood, and like the air that pervades the whole limitless Akãsa, Atman, the dweller in the caves of Manas, unseen and unperceived, becomes its own expressor, and walks in the Akãsa of the human heart.

30. Though the Jîvãtman dwells in the heart,yet it has its abode in the mind; and though dwelling in the heart it is itself mindless. The Yogî, who sees such an Atman in his own heart through the help of his own mind, gradually becomes a Siddha himself.

31. He that has been able to make his mind entirely unsupported and one with the Akãsa, and to know the unchangeable One, his state is called the state of Samãdhi.

32. Though living upon air he that daily practises Samãdhi to make himself happy with the drink of the Yoga-nectar, becomes able to destroy the destroyer.

33. He that contemplates the Atman as No-thing above, No-thing below, No-thing in the middle, and No-thing all round, his state is called the state of Samãdhi. (That is Nirãlamba, non-supported or self-supported samãdhi) The Yogî who thus realizes the No-thingness of the Atman becomes free from all virtues and vice.

[kmguru]

Uttara Gita, Chap 1 contd...

ARJUNA ASKED:

34. Tell me, O Kesava, how Yogîs should meditate upon the colourless and formless Brahman, when the mind is unable to think upon that which it has never seen, and that which can be seen is material, and consequently subject to destruction (change)?

SRI BHAGAVAN SAID:

35. That which is full above, full below, full in the middle, and full all round, is the All-full Atman and he that contemplates the Ãtman thus, is said to be in the state of Samãdhi.

ARJUNA ASKED:

36. Tell me, O Kesava, how the Yogî is to practise meditation when the Sãlamba which thou has just described is unreal and that which is Nirãlamba means No-thingness?

SRI BHAGAVAN SAID:

37. He who, after purifying his mind, contemplates the pure Paramãtman, and looks unto his own Self as he one vast undivided whole of the manifested universe, becomes happy by knowing the Brahman.

ARJUNA ASKED:

38. All the letters have long and short metrical sound, they (letters) are also joined by the Bindu (Anusvãra-point) and the latter (Bindu) when disjoined, merges itself into the Nãda (sound), but where does the Nãda merge.

SRI BHAGAVAN SAID:

39 & 40. Light exists in the voice of the ceaseless Sound, and Manas (thought) in that light; the Space where the Manas disappears (merges in itself) is the Supreme Foot of Visnu. Aiming at the unknowable, where the Sound of the Pranava, led up on high by the Life-Air, disappears, that Space is called the Supreme Foot of Visnu.

ARJUNA ASKED:

41. Tell me, Okesava, when the Life-Breath leaves this body of five elements, and the tenement itself is again reduced to them (the elements), where do the virtue and vice of the man go, and who do they accompany?


SRI BHAGAVAN SAID:

42 & 43. The destiny produced by the result of virtue and vice, the Essence of the five Bhütas - the mind (lower mind), the five senses, and the controlling genii (Devatas) of the five organs of Karma, all these by reason of the Ahankãra (personality) of the mind accompany the Jîva as long as it remains ignorant of the knowledge of the Tattvas.

ARJUNA ASKED:

44. O Krishna, the Jîva, in the state of Samãdhi, leaves all the movable and immovable objects of the world, but what is it that leaves the Jîva so as to remove the nãma of Jîvaship?

SRI BHAGAVAN SAID:

45. The Prãna Vãyu always passes between the mouth and the nostrils; the Akãsa drinks (absorbs) the Prãna (i.e., when the Jïva leaves the body, after acquiring the knowledge of the Tattvas); thus when the Prãna is once absorbed the Jïva does not figure again as Jïva in the arena of this world.

ARJUNA ASKED:

46. The Ãkãsa that pervades the whole Universe also encompasses this objective world. It is therefore both in and out of everything. Now tell me, O Krishna, what it is that is beyond this Ãkãsa.

SRI BHAGAVAN SAID:

47. O Arjuna, the Ãkãsa is called Sünya (vacuum), because it means the want or absence of things or anything. This Ãkãsa has the quality of Sound, but that which gives it the power of Sound (as emptiness cannot produce any sound), thought Itself Soundless, is the unknown and unknowable Brahman.

ARJUNA ASKED:

48. It is evident that the letters are pronounced by means of the teeth, lips, palate, throat, etc.; therefore how can they (letters) be termed indestructible (Nitya), when their destructibility is apparent on their very face?

SRI BHAGAVAN SAID:

49. That letter is called indestructible which is self-pronunciation, i.e., without the efort of any pronunciation, which is neither vowel nor consonant, which is beyond the eight places of pronunciation, which is not subject to long or short accents, and which is thoroughly devoid of the Usma Varnas (i.e, the four letters, S'a, Sa, Sa, Ha, called Usma on account of their pronunciation depending greatly on the help of Vãyu or air - meaning, therefore, subject to no air or breath).

ARJUNA ASKED:

50. Tell me, O Krishna, how, by closing their external senses and knowing that Brahman, which lies concealed in every matter and every substance, the Yogins realize Nirvãna Mukti (i.e., absolute freedom from every kind of bondage)?

SRI BHAGAVAN SAID:

51. The Yogins see the Atman within (them: this they do) when they shut out all their external senses (not by any physical action); for such a person when he leaves his body, his Buddhi [ Students must distinguish between the Vedãntic use of this term and the significance assigned to it in the Esoteric Philosophy. ] (i.e. material intelligence) dies away, and with the death of his Buddhi his ignorance also dies away (i.e., he becomes spiritual).

52. As long as the Tattvas are not known to a person, so long it is necessary for him to practise concentration of mind by shutting out external senses, but once the thoroughly attains the knowledge of the Tattvas he identifies himself with the Universal Soul.

53. From the nine openings (portals) of the body, the waters of knowledge always pass out; consequently one cannot know the Brahman unless he becomes as pure as the Brahman Itself. (Meaning, the powers of mind should be concentrated within, and not allowed to dwell upon external objects through the nine openings.)

54. Thy body itself is exceedingly impure, but that which takes a body (Jîvãtman) is purity itself; he that has known the difference of the real nature of these two never troubles himself with the question of purity; for, whose purity, should he search after? (The Jîvãtman is always pure.)

[kmguru]

Uttara Gita

CHAPTER II

ARJUNA ASKED:

1. Tell me, Okesava, what is the evidence when one, knowing the Brahman as the all-pervading and all-knowing Paramesvara, believes himself to be one with It?

SRI BHAGAVAN SAID:

2. As water in water, milk in milk and (clarified) butter in butter, so the Jîvãtman and Paramãtman become one in union without any distinction and difference.

3. He who with undivided attention endeavours to unite the Jîvãtman with the Paramãtman according to the manner prescribed by the Sãstras (i.e., Rsis) to him the all-pervading and universal Light shows itself in due time.

ARJUNA ASKED:

4. When, by acquiring knowledge, the knower becomes the object of knowledge itself, then he frees himself from all bondage by the virtue of his knowledge, and what need is there for practice of Yoga or meditation?

SRI BHAGAVAN SAID:

5. He, in whom the light of knowledge always shines forth, has his Buddhi constantly fixed on the Brahman, and with the fire of supreme knowledge he is able to burn down the bonds of Karma.

6. Such a knower of the Tattvas, by the realization of the Paramãtman that is pure as the spotless Akãsa and without a second, lives in it (i.e., Paramãtman) without any Upãdhi (i.e., being free from all attributes), as water enters into water.

7. Atman is Süksma like Akãsa , and therefore it cannot be seen by the eyes, nor can the inner Atman, which is like the Vãyu (air) bee seen either; but he who has been able to fix his Inner-Atman by the Nirãlamba Samãdhi, and has learned to direct the course of his external senses inward, can know the unity of the Atman and Antarãtman (Inner Soul or Mind).

8. Wherever a Jnãnin may die, and in whatever manner his death may happen, he becomes one with Atman when he leases his body, even as the Akãsa in the pot becomes one with its parent Akãsa when the pot is broken, matters not where nor how it breaks.

9. Know by the process of Anvaya and Vyatireka that the Atman which pervades the whole body is beyond the the three states of consciousness - waking, dreaming and dreamless sleep.

[ In the state in which although the material consciousness is absent, still the presence of the Atman is perceived as a witness to that state, this process is called the Anvaya; whereas the ignorance by which the man in the Sthula Sarîra, does not perceive the presence of the Atman, although it is ever-present, is called Vyatireka. This twofold process exists in each of the above-mentioned three states of consciousness.

10. He who has been able to dwell with his mind for one moment on a single point (i.e., to perceive the Light of Caitanya) frees himself from the sins of his past hundred births. [ This probably means that the "vision of the fields of eternity" can never be attained until a person is purified from the "sins" of past births.]

11. On the right side spreads the Pingalã Nãdi (i.e., from the sole of the right foot right up to the top of the head where the Sahasrãra exists),[ For clairvoyant description of the six centres in the human body please see "Chakras" with Illustrations, by C.W.Leadbeater] it is bright and shining like a great circle of Fire (or the Sun); this product of virtue (Pingalã) is called the vehicle of the devas. (Meaning, that those who can fix their mind in this Nãdi, can journey through the sky like Devas; therefore it is called the "Deva-Yãna" or the vehicle of the Devas.)

12. On the left side stretches forth the Ida (i.e., from the sole of the left foot up to the Sahasrãra at the top of the head), the brightness of this Nãdi is comparatively less, like the disk or circle of the Moon; it dwells with the breath of the left nostril and it is called the vehicle of the Pitrs. (Meaning, that those who can fix their mind in this Nãdi, can ascend the Pitr Loka and no further; hence it is called "Pitr-Yãna" or the vehicle of the Pitrs.)

13 & 14. Like the backbone of a Veena, or harp, the long tract of bone with many joints that stretches from the seat right up to the head of a human being is called the Meru-Danda (spinal cord). There is a minute aperture or hole that passes right through this Meru-Danda from the Mulãdhãra to the head; it is through this hole that there passes a Nãdi which the yogis called the Brahma-Nãdi or Susumnã.

15. Susumnã is a fine nerve that passes between the Idã and Pingalã. From this Susumnã all the Jnãna-Nãdis (sensory nerves) take their birth: hence it is called the Jnãna-Nãdi.

[That Nãdi that takes its origin from the Sahasrãra, and growing gradually finer, descends through the canal of the spinal column, is called the Susumnã. At first nine sets of smaller Nãdis spring from it and spread towards the eyes and other organs of sense, etc.: afterwards from each joint of the spinal column to which the pairs of ribs are attached, one on either side, and underneath each rib, there are successively stretched thirty-two sets of Nãdis, with innumerable branchlets covering the whole body like a network; these produce the sense of touch and perform other necessary work requisite for the upkeep of the Sthula Sarîra. These Nãdis are so fine in their texture that if 400 of them be collected and tied together,still they cannot be seen by the naked eye; thou so fine, still they are, like pipes, hollow and in this space there exists a certain substance,like oil, in which the Caitanya reflects; for this reason the Rsis call the Susumnã the parent of all these smaller Nãdis, the Jnãna-Nãdi, and consider it to be just like a tree with its innumerable branches covering the whole of the human body,the root being upwards - at the Sahasrãra - and the branches downwards.]

16. The Sun, the Moon, and the other Devatas, the fourteen Lokas of Bhur, Bhuvar, etc., the ten directions,East, West, etc., the sacred places, the seven oceans,the Himãlaya and other mountains, the seven Islands of Jambu, etc., the seven sacred rivers, Gangã, etc., the four Vedas, all the sacred philosophies, the sixteen vowels and twenty-four consonants,the Gãyatri and other sacred Mantras, the eighteen Purãnas and all the Upa-Purãnas included, the three Gunas, Mahat itself, the root of the Jîvas, the Jîvas and their Atman, the ten breaths, the whole world, in fact, consisting of all these, exists in the Susumnã.

[As all outward objects that are cognizable by the human senses are reflected in the Susumnã Nãdi, therefore the Rsis call this body the "microcosm". For instance,when you see the sun, moon, or the stars, you do not actually go near to them in order to see, but you see them because they are reflected in your Susumnã Nãdi. If your mind had the power to go out of your body, in order to see them, then you would be able to see all and everything that lies in the "Royal Road", and in such a case you would know all and every occurrence that takes place in every quarter of this globe, nay, and somewhere else, in this vast universe.]

17. As various Nãdis have sprung up from the Susumnã, the receptacle of the Inner soul of all Jîvas - and are stretched out in all directions of the physical body, therefore it is considered like a huge tree reversed. The Tattva-Jnãnins alone are able to walk on every branch of this tree by the help of Prãna-Vãyu.

18. In this human body there exist seventy-two thousand Nãdis which admit of sufficient space for entrance into them through Vãyu; the Yogins alone become acquainted with the true nature of these Nãdis by the virtue of their Yoga-Karma.

19. Having closed up the nine portals of the body, and being acquainted with the source and nature of the Nãdis that stretch up and down the seats of the several organs of sense, the Jîva, rising to the state of superior knowledge with the aid of the Life-Breath, attains Moksa.

20. On the left side of this Susumnã, and near the point of the nose, there exists the Indra-Loka by name called Amarãvatî; and the bight luminous sphere that exists in the eyes is known by the name of Agni-Loka.

[Of the nine sets of nerves springing from the Susumnã, at first one set enters into the organ of sight, but it forms into a circle before branching out and entering into both the eyes, this circle is called Agni-Loka. Similarly the circle which the second set of the nerves make before entering into the nostrils, is known by the name of Amarâvatî or the capital of Indra-Loka.]

21. Near the right ear exists the Yama-Loka (the place of death) known by the name of Samyamanî, and on its side exists the sphere of the Nairrta Deva, called by the name of Nairrta-Loka.

[Yama-Loka means the sphere of Death, because there exists such a delicate place near the ear that slight injury is likely to cause death to a person; hence this sphere is called Yama-Loka.

Nairrta-Loka is also called Rãkso-Loka. At the side of Yama-Loka there exists a place the nerves of which enable a person to masticate hard things such as meat, etc.; hence this place is known by the name of Nairrta-Loka or Rãkso-Loka]

22. On the west (i.e., of the Susumnã),and situated in the back, there exists the sphere of Varuna called by the name of Vibhãvarî: and on the side of the ears, the sphere is known as Gandhavatî This is the seat of the Vãyu.

[There is a certain place in the back of a man which the ordinary people of he Hindus touch with their wet fingers at the time of performing the halting ceremony. This place is called Vibhãvarî, because here the nerves are so sensitive, that no sooner one fixes his attention there than he becomes covered with Mãyã and falls into sleep. The term Vibhãvari means night or darkness.

Similarly the place beside the ears, whence the air carries the smell, is called Gandhavatî, meaning the place of smell; the place which starts the air to carry the smell into the nostrils is called the Vãyu-Loka.]

23. On the north side of Susumnã, extending from the throat up to the left ear, and in the sphere of Kubera, known by the name of Pushpavatî, exists the Candra-Loka.

[Kubera is the god of riches of the Hindu Mythology; his place is called Puspavatî, meaning place of golden flowers.]

24. In the left eye and in connection with the Isãnya direction exists Siva-Loka, known by the name of Manonmanî; the Brahmapurî that exist in the head should be considered as the microcosm in the human body (because it is the root and origin of the Jnãna-Nãdi Susumnã, therefore called Manomaya-Jagat, or the world of mind).

25. Like the dreadful fire at the time of Pralaya, the eternal dwells at the sole of the feet; the same all-pure eternal imparts blessing, both above, below, in the middle, in and out (of the body).

[When one dwelling in Susumnã, drinks the nectar of happiness, then whatever obstacles may appear to him both from above, below, or the middle of his body,they instantly disappear no sooner the mediator fixes his mind on the eternal dwelling at the sole of his feet.] [ Referring to the direction of certain magnetic currents. ]

26. The lower portion, or the sole of the foot, is called Atala; the upper portion, or the top, is called Vitala; the upper part of the joint between the leg and foot (i.e., the ankle) is called Nitala, and knee (Jangha) is called Sutala.

27. The lower portion of the thigh (Jãnu) is called Mahãtala; the upper portion of it (Uru) is called Rasãtala, and the loin (Kati) is termed Talãtala. In this way it is proper to know the seven Pãtãlas that exist in the human body.

28. In the Pãtãlas where the serpents live in coils, and below the navel, is the place known by the name of Bhogîndra; this dreadful place, like a burning Hell and Doomsday Fire, is termed Mahãpãtãla; in this sphere, the eternal known by the name of Jîva, displays itself in serpentine coils like a circle.

29. Bhur-Loka exists in the navel; in the armpit [ This localizes a great nervous and magnetic centre that directs every motion of the arms.] exists the Bhuvar, while the Svarga-Loka, with the sun, moon and stars, dwells in the heart.

30. The Yogis realize perfect bliss by imagining the seven Lokas,the Sun, Moon, Mars, Mercury, Jupiter,Venus, Saturn, and innumerable other Lokas like Dhruva, etc., in the heart.

31. In the heart (of the person who thus imagines) dwells the Mahar-Loka, the Jana-Loka exists in the throat, the Tapo-Loka between the two eyebrows, while the Satya-Loka exists in the head.

32 & 33. This Brahmãnda shaped Earth [ That is, like the egg of Brahmã.] dissolves itself into Water, the Water is dried up by fire, the Air swallows up the Fire, and the Akãsa drinks the Air in turn; but the Akãsa itself is assimilated in the Mind, the Mind in Buddhi, the Buddhi in Ahankãra, the Ahankãra in Citta, and the Citta in Ksetrajna (i.e., Atman or Spirit).

[Ahankãra here means "self-consciousness", Mahat, or the Third Logos; it corresponds to the Mind in the human principles. Citta means the "abstract consciousness", the Second Logos, corresponding to Buddhi of the human principles. Ksetra-jna, or the knower of the planes, means the Spirit or the First Logos, corresponding to the Atman of the human principles of the exoteric Theosophy. Mind here means the Kãma Mind, and Buddhi means the faculty of ascertaining truth.

According to the definition given by Sri Sankarãchãrya in his Viveka-Chudãmani[ Text in Devanagiri and Translation in English by Mohini Mohan Chatterji. ], the Mind, Buddhi, Ahankãra, and Citta are the four handmaids of Antahkarana; the quality of Mind is to doubt, that of Buddhi is to ascertain, Citta retains or keeps, while Ahankãra, expresses its self-consciousness or shows "I-am-ness". The place of the mind is the throat, that of Buddhi the mouth, Citta dwells in the navel, while Ahankãra resides in the heart.] [ All the explanations in brackets are mere translations, except this portion, which I have simply explained from the teachings of "H.P.Blavatsky" and "Sri Sri Sankarãchãrya ]

34. The Yogins who contemplate me with one mind as "I am he" are saved from the sins collected during a hundred millions of Kalpas.

35. As the Akãsa of the pot is absorbed in the Mahãkãsa when the pot is broken, so also the ignorance-bound Jîvãtman is absorbed in the Paramãtman when ignorance is destroyed.

36. He who has been able to acquire the knowledge of the Tattvas that the Jîvãtman is absorbed in the Paramãtman, even as the Akãsa of the Pot is absorbed in the Mahãkãsa, becomes undoubtedly free from the chain of ignorance, and goes into the sphere of the Light of Supreme Knowledge and Wisdom.

37. If a man practise asceticism and severe austerity for a thousand years, standing on one leg only, he cannot realize one-sixteenth part of the benefit gained by Dhyãna Yoga (meditation).

Those that constantly chant the four Vedas and read other religious works and yet fail to realize "I am that Brahman", they are like the spoons that are used for every cooking operation, but yet remain without a single taste of the foods they prepare.

As the ass bears the burden of sandal (wood), whereby he feels only the weight of the load and not the virtue of the sandal, even so is the case of the (nominal) readers of the many Sãstras, because they do not understand the real meaning of them, but carry them about like the beast of burden.

38. As long as one does not acquire the knowledge of the Tattvas, so long should he attentively perform all good acts, observe purity of body and mind, perform religious sacrifice, and acquire experience and wisdom by visiting sacred places.

39. At the time when the body oscillates backward and forward, the Brãhmana who hesitates to believe that he is Brahman fails to understand the great subtle Atman, even if he be conversant with the four Vedas.

[At the time of practising meditation, when the Susumna commences dancing up and down the spinal cord by the force of the uprising Fire of Brahmã, then the Linga Sarîra within begins to move, which necessarily moves or swings the physical body; if at such a time one fails to consider himself "I am That" his study of the Vedas and Sãstras is simply useless.

Linga is from the word Lîna , which means to unite. As it makes possible the union with Brahman or Atman, therefore it is called Linga; Sarîrã is from the root ISri, I to emaciate, as it emaciates itself with the belief that "I am Brahman" therefore it is called Sarîra. Therefore Linga Sarîrã means that body which emaciates itself and finally enables the Jîva to unite with Atman. Linga Sarîrã is increased by constant talking and other actions, therefore the less is spoken, etc., the better; it is no good increasing the Linga Sarîrã.]

40. Although the cows may be of different colours,but the colour of their milk is one and the same; even so in the case of the Jîva, the bodies may look different, but the Atman is one and the same in all.

41. Food, sleep, fear, and sexual desire men have in common with brutes; it is the addition of knowledge (i.e., the faculty of knowledge of Buddhi) only that makes him a man; if, therefore, he is devoid of this he is but equal to a brute.

42. In the morning a man performs the necessities of life, in the middle of the day he fills his stomach with food, in the evening he satisfies the cravings of his sexual desire, and afterwards falls into the embraces of deep sleep- such is the case with the beasts also.

43 & 44. That hundred millions of Jîva and thousands of Nãda-Bindus [ See the Voice of the Silence by H.P.Blavatsky for the Explanation of Nãda. Bindu is the point where the Nãda ends and is absorbed in the eternal; Bindu, therefore, is the mediatrix, the lady in the Bhãgavata who acted as a go-between between Krishna, the Atmã, and Rãdhã, the Manas. ] are constantly destroyed and absorbed in that All-Purity, therefore the firm conviction that "I am Brahman" is known to be the only cause of Moksa for Great Souls (Mahãtma).

45. Two words bind and liberate the Jîvas respectively, the firm belief of "I" and "mine" (Mama) holds fast and binds the Jîva down, and the absence or want of the same (Nirmama) liberates him from all bondage.

46. When the Mind becomes free from all desires and passions, then only the idea of duality ceases. When there arises that state of Advaita feeling (al in One and One in all), there dwell the supreme Feet of the Brahman.

47. As an hungry person imply wastes his energy in vain when he strikes the air with blows for food, so also a reader of the Vedas and others Sãstras simply wastes his time and energy, if, notwithstanding his study, he fails to realize that "I am Brahman".

[kmguru]

Uttara Gita


CHAPTER III

1. Sãstras are innumerable, and again it takes a long time to understand their real meaning (even if one succeeds in going through them); life is short, but the obstacles are many; therefore the intelligent should only take the real meaning of them as a Hamsa (swan) separates the milk only out of milk-mixed water.

2. The Purãnas, the Bhãrata, the Vedas, and various other Sãstras, wife, children, and family are simply so many obstacles on the path of Yoga-practice.

[This is not intended either for beginners or for ordinary people; it is intended for those only who have risen very high, i.e., above the world of matter.]

3. Dost thou desire to know all by thy own experience - that this is knowledge, and that is worth knowing, etc., - then thou shalt fail to know the end of the Sãstras even if thine age be over a thousand years.

4. Considering life to be very impermanent, try to know only the indestructible Sat, give up the unnecessary reading of books, and worship Truth.

5. Out of all the beautiful objects that exist in this world, most are intended either to please the tongue or give pleasures to sex: if you can relinquish the pleasures of both these,then where is the necessity of this world for you. (Meaning that these two constitute the essence of selfishness in a man's mind; discard them, and you get rid of the selfish feeling, thereby living for virtue and the good of humanity alone.)

6. The sacred rivers after all are but waters and the idols worshipped are nothing but either stones,metals, or earth. Yogis go neither to the former nor worship the latter, because within themselves exist all sacred places and the synthesis of all idols.

7. Agni or Fire is the god of the twice-born who are given to sacrifice; the Munis call the Atman within them their god, the less intelligent portion worship the idols, but the Yogis see Brahman equally everywhere - both in the fire, within themselves, in idols, and all around.

8. As a blind man cannot see the sun although it lightens the whole world, so those blind of knowledge, or the spiritually blind, also cannot perceive the Omnipresent Eternal Peace that encompasses the whole universe.

9. Wherever the Mind (of a Tattvajnãnin) goes, it sees the Paramãtman there because all and everything is full with the One Brahman.

10. As the serene bright sky is observable with all its panorama of forms, names, and colours, so he who is able to realize the idea that "I am Brahman" - in spite of all forms, names, and colours - alone can see the eternal Paramãtman actually.

11. The Yogi, while meditating, should contemplate that "I am the whole universe"; in this manner he shall see that Paramãtman - the Abode of Supreme Bliss - with the eyes of his knowledge. As long as he shall think of the Akãsa and identify himself with it, so long shall he consider the All-pervading Paramãtman like Akãsa itself, for the Great Subtle Production from the Portal of Moksa, the All-full Abode of Nirvãna, the Eternal Paramãtman dwells in the heart of all Jîva, in the form of the Ray of Knowledge - the Spiritual Soul - in man; this Paramãtman should be known as the Brahmãtman of the Paramãtman-knowing Yogis.

12. He who has been able to identify himself with the whole universe - as the One Brahman - should carefully avoid the desire of eating every man's food and selling all kinds of things.

[There would be no difference between a man and a dog, if he takes impure food and eats every body's bread. Impure trade also destroys the purity of a man's mind.

13. Where the Yogis stay for one second or even half a second, that place becomes sacred like Kuruksetra., Prayãga and Naimisãranya because the thought of Spirituality for one brief second has a greater effect than one thousand millions of sacrifices.

14. The Yogi who considers this universe as nothing but the One Brahman, at once destroys both virtue and vice; consequently for him there is neither friend nor enemy, happiness nor misery, gain nor loss, good nor bad, honour nor dishonour, praise nor blame; all these become alike to him.

15. When a patched-up cloak with a hundred holes in it, is able to keep off the summer's heat and winter's cold, then what is the necessity for wealth and riches for a man whose heart is devoted to the worship of Kesava (Brahman).

16. O Arjuna, the Yogi should not think about or concern himself for his maintenance; if, however, such a thought is necessary at all, then let him beg for alms simply to maintain his body, and protect himself form cold by the clothes of charity; to him diamond and stones, green vegetables and coarse rice, and all other objects in this world, are of equal value (i.e., he becomes indifferent to all).

17. O Arjuna, he who does not covet material objects, never takes birth again in this world.

[kmguru]

O Arjuna, he who does not covet material objects, never takes birth again in this world. - Uttara Gita, 3-17

Do you recognize any similarity with Budhha's teachings?

[Rajagopals]

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[kmguru]

The curse?

I understand. Perhaps that is why you could not see my postings. They are invisible to Indians as most meanings of old Indian texts. :D

just kidding...

[Rajagopals]

--- content removed ---

[kmguru]

Originally posted by Rajagopals
Its up to individual to believe or not.

Beliefs are in short supply in sciforums. The proof of the pudding is in eating. So, if you have a different interpretation - let us have it.

I assume the truth still stands invisible in front of you and its you who cannot see the truth.

Then enlighten us, we are all eyes...

About “old Indian text” again you people are misguided or in a wrong path.

What path is that? Have you been in our path? How do you know it is a fact? And misguided? Who is guiding? How do you know him/her? Did your guide had a fight with our guide? How do you know, we even have a guide for such a simple journey?

[EvilPoet]

Originally posted by UltiTruth: "The Bhagavad-Gita has much for every
one to ponder upon and this thread is for everyone to contribute on
snippets from the Gita."

"For all things born in truth must die, and out of death in
truth comes life. Face to face with what must be, cease
thou from sorrow" -Bhagavad Gita 2:27

[UltiTruth]

EvilPoet,
mind elaborating what this means?

[EvilPoet]

UltiTruth,

No, I don't mind elaborating. I was just trying to get things back
on topic. IMO - we have strayed very far away from the original.
If it bothers you, I can edit my post. I don't mind. :)

[UltiTruth]

Oh, I was really asking you about the Bhagavad Gita 2:27 bit!
:)

...and out of death in
truth comes life?

[EvilPoet]

Oh ok, sorry for the misunderstanding. :)

I would be happy to elaborate (if I can) but I'm not sure
what it is exactly that you want me to elaborate on. Do
you mean explain what the quote I posted means? Or
something else?

[UltiTruth]

...and out of death in
truth comes life...

What does this mean?

[EvilPoet]

Perhaps it is just me (very, very possible) but I think the quote is pretty self explanatory.
Here is another translation (see below), does it make it any clearer as to its meaning?
If not, I think you would be much better off asking kmguru to explain its meaning. In my
opinion, he is far more knowledgeable than I am in this area and can explain it better.
Not trying to put kmguru on the spot or anything. ;)


"Death is certain for anyone born,
and birth is certain for the dead;
since the cycle is inevitable,
you have no cause to grieve!"
-Bhagavad Gita 2:27

[UltiTruth]

This one is quite self-explanatory. Thanks.

[EvilPoet]

You're welcome. :)

[Rajagopals]

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[kmguru]

Dear Rajagopals:

I have waited a long time for someone to come forward and discuss Sanatana Dharma - like a spider weaving his trap...he he he...

Looks like my wish may come true. When I have a little time, I would answer to your post. In the meantime, please visit my earlier post of my definition of Sanatana Dharma. Our debate may heat up a little but at no time I would like to attack personally and I hope, you do the same.

The problem with debate on a forum like this is that, we can not write a book to get our point across. At the sametime, complex thoughts can not be explained in a few paragrapghs. Try doing that with Cellular automata or Cybernatics or theory of constraints, or Chaos theory and its practical applications etc. Normally I provide short answers - so sometimes one may not "get it" without reference to context". But we will try and have fun. OK?

[Rajagopals]

as you wish (transalated from Hindi)!

love

Raj

[spookz]

Originally posted by Rajagopals
The interpretation is just the beginning, I have not even included the real Yogic meaning of what that poem really stands for, because you won’t understand unless other wise you are initiated to the practice of “Shodashakshari” in the Hamsa method.


i got my ticket and i am on my way!


;)

[Rick]

"Jaise aap ki marzee"


He understands it...isnt it Km?

;)


bye!

[Rick]

Raj,

"Even though the universe is filled with almighty, like a blind man who can not see the sun, a man who is not interested to know the truth (blind with anger, arrogance and
ignorance) will never understand the truth"

This Blind with anger that you write... is it the real stuff in Uttar Gita? damm,you never know.'cause you know you might be following another translator author who has interpreted this sentence as this.Not realizing truth might also mean that GOD lives in another Dimension?;) isnt it? but thats my interpretation...

what do you think?

bye!

[evolove]

The Supreme Soul in this body is also called the spectator, thepermitter, the supporter, the enjoyer, the great Lord and the Supreme Self.

[spookz]

Originally posted by zion
you never know.'cause you know you might be following another translator author who has interpreted this sentence as this.

bye!

i think raj does his own translations

[Rajagopals]

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[Rick]

I didnt say God <i>as</i> a dimension.I said God might reside is the Dimension where There is Perfect state of consiousness(Heaven).And may be that is the end of our Soul EVolution.When we project,we enter another Dimension called Astral Dimension closer to Reality.

Perhaps that is why it is said that when Shiva's third eye will open it will be the the end of the world,As a new Dimension will be added...

just thoughts...


bye!

[kmguru]

On the otherhand, Shiva's third eye could be a metaphor for blackhole formation in a nearby system that showers massive neutron radiation on earth to destroy all life....

[Rick]

Quite Possibly.

The things that Gods Taught us could be interpreted in many ways...Since i think during those times one could not understand Dimensions exactly.So gods found a way to impart knowledge of theirs through various ways.Think about it.I have heard several times that God Resides in Heaven.Indra is Lord and King of heaven.The heaven is a place where everyone is happy.It is a place with perfect consiousness state.Another Dimension stated.
what do you think?


bye!

[Rajagopals]

“Perfect state of consciousness” can we call that Heaven ? I feel this could also inform us of the problems in future and we tend to worry for that unnecessarily. This might induce a state of laziness as we know what’s on our way. Since this also initiate a Godly feeling of hyper ego which might also result in agony at the end with the knowledge that man will never become God. So altogether its nothing but another Maya (illusion) by the great magician He Himself.

This perfect state of consciousness could also stop the time as the deliberate query about any instance of an event (time) brings back memories of complete information. And this will allow us to travel in time, and I feel this will be the only time when we feel our self, our soul, rather than the end of it. We will see our self different from the rest of the world; we will find our self out of the control of time and the events. An independent existence within a very fragile, predictable, chain of events, triggered from the human thoughts.

Even at this stage we carry the ego of body as body is required for senses to exist. We know the rest of the universe except us. And by the blessing of the Lord Shiva, if the opening of the Third Eye of the Lord is happening to him, then his ego gets dispersed by the sheer amount of love the Lord has for everything existing. We will get amazed by the quantity of love that he has imparted to the universe, we will lose the ego of the mind, and this is the only time when we loose our self and join the almighty for eternity.

The destroying power of the third eye is only for the ego of Aham (knowledge of self). Ahamkaram (arrogance) because of the (non-existent) heightened thoughts of self, is what is going to get destroyed. This destructive power will finish any other self derived thoughts and feelings and push the individual to the universal knowledge and existence.

[EvilPoet]

Rajagopals,

I have a question: what is the difference
between Uttara Gita and Uttara Kanda?

[Rajagopals]

Originally posted by EvilPoet
Rajagopals,

I have a question: what is the difference
between Uttara Gita and Uttara Kanda?

First of all Uttara Gita is part of the Bhagavath Geeta, and Uttara Kandam is one of the seven sections of Ramayanam.

In Uttara Gita, the Yogic practices are detailed with its results in its originality, but in Uttara Kandam the philosophy of life is detailed from a different perspective.

Uttara Gita is the advice given by Lord Krishna to Arjuna, Uttara Kanda is the story of Sita and her sons after they Sita has been discarded by Sri Ram.

One contains intricate details of Yoga and meditation, and other details the philosophy of being human.

[EvilPoet]

Thank you for answering my
question, much appreciated. :)

[UltiTruth]

Attended a recent seminar on "Contemporary Corporate Challenges: Ancient Indian Solutions" conducted recently.
Basically it was trying to find solutions primarily based on the Gita!

[druj]

Sorry but if God is pure awareness as emptiness
then how does a soul climb the chain of
evolution?

To where does one climb to reach God?

My understanding of Jnana is that a person
knows the Self by continually seeking
the source of the I until
the knot of the ego is completely detatched
from the body. This
knot, according to Ramana Maharshi,
is an energy spot to the right of the heart
yet at the sametime not in the body -- and
as pointed out thus far -- identified with
the consciousness of the SUN.

According to David Godman, who is the biographer
of Poonjaji, Ramana's most well-known disciple,
only a few people have
actually achieved SELF-REALIZATION.

Ramana Maharshi says that there IS NO EVOLUTION
only pure awareness.

Actually I AGREE WITH ALAIN DANIELOU

who teaches that the THREE does not collapse
into the ONE

Personally I think that Advaita Vedanta

is the origins of the All-Seeing Eye Freemasonic
External Path of DE-EVOLUTION.

This is exposed, unintentionally, by Prof. Abraham Seidenberg's
"The Ritual Origins of Geometry" -- (a popular essay in Vedic
studies): Squaring of the Circle for Brahman sacrfice altars
in 3,000 B.C. Seidenberg also promotes human sacrifice
as social engineering to maintain creation as the
separation of heaven and earth -- in the academic journal
Folklore.

It Was At That Time that INFINITY became a CLOSED SET
Necessary to create the exact same area for the square
and the circle.

THE ONE or the SELF that is defined by the Brahmans

instead of the Adi Shakti -- which is the Dravidian
Taoist-Basque-- Shaivite -- Cosmic Mother Trinity -- Also Expressed by the Pythagorean 1:2:3:4 whereby 1 goes into HEKATE the INDETERMINATE.

Esoteric Buddhism was an attempt to deal with the "DEAD-TREE ZEN"

INDIFFERENT EMPTINESS of JNANA (Dyana-Chan-Zen) Yoga.

In otherwords -- just hiding out in the Empty Awareness

-- even if you completely know your SELF

and stating that only the SELF is really and

since I know the SELF, I am not doing anything

since ANything that I do is actually Brahman.

You can see the moral problems this can create.

This is the actually closely connected to the Tree of Life
and Knowledge from Genesis (equivalent with Earth and Heaven
respectively). Brahman is the "I" that separates or harmonizes
the two.

I agree with Prof. David Loy's critique of Brahman in
NONDUALITY: A COMPARATIVE ANALYSIS, Yale Press.

This issue that I've exposed continues to be
a heated debate on Indian philosophy listserves
and will continue to be so until the Apocalypse
happens. Sorry to expose the problem again.
My latest research is available at the conspiracy
forum of Guerrillanews.com -- just do an extensive
search under my name over the last six months.

For further information please see my "The Actual Matrix
Plan" published online under my name, Drew Hempel, M.A.

[EvilPoet]

Originally posted by druj
published online under my name, Drew Hempel, M.A.
Are you related to Mark Hempel?

[druj]

That depends...Mark Hempel of what location?

drew hempel

[EvilPoet]

Originally posted by druj
That depends...Mark Hempel of what location?
That depends? On what? The Mark Hempel I'm referring
to is the webmaster for this site: Wingmakers.com (http://wingmakers.com/)

[druj]

It's possible but not that I know of.
Very likely an extended family member.

[EvilPoet]

Thanks for the reply, much appreciated. :)

[river-wind]

Druj- what is your understanding of Jianism? (I hope I'm even coming close in spelling that right)

[kmguru]

Originally posted by river-wind
Druj- what is your understanding of Jianism? (I hope I'm even coming close in spelling that right)

That is a whole different topic....

[UltiTruth]

Originally posted by river-wind
Druj- what is your understanding of Jianism? (I hope I'm even coming close in spelling that right)
Jainism of Mahavira?

[sargentlard]

My god this book come from my religion and i don't know crap about it:( ...it has some beautiful text in it though;)

[firingseeds]

can anyone tell me the story of the goose and the boy? the boy is ringing the goose's neck and a priest starts admonishing the boy about it.

[kmguru]

Originally posted by firingseeds
can anyone tell me the story of the goose and the boy? the boy is ringing the goose's neck and a priest starts admonishing the boy about it.

Never read it in Bhagavad-Gita....try in another topic...thanks

[firingseeds]

thanks for that.
it was a hindu story tho - a very good one. this boy was ill-treating this goose. a priest came by and admonished the boy, saying to him, that for his karmic retribution, he may one day be the goose being bashed. the boy replied to the priest, saying, how do u know i wasn't the goose and this goose wasn't the ill-treater?
something like that, anyway.
cheers

[Rajagopals]

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