Earths Magnetic Feilds changing?

[(Q)]

Nilequeen

A decrease in the strength of the Earths magnetic field allows more cosmic radiation to penetrate to the surface. If, and this is a big if because we really don’t know the full effect, the magnetic field had gone to zero, most of the cosmic radiation traveling towards Earth would have penetrated to the surface. In that case, we would have noticed mutations in animals. However, no mutations are known to have taken place.

[Dwayne D.L.Rabon]

starting at the begining of the collaspe of the poles, when the poles collaspe the magentic felid is broken in to many pieces at least a 100 per pole, these broken pieces of the magnetic field turn into exstremely large hurricanes which travel towards the equator, when they reach the equator they then collaspe as the orginal pole collasped, these hurricanes move very slowly towards the equator taking some 346 years to reach the equator,
a example of this hurricane is the red eye of jupiture, the eye of netptune, the red eye of juptier and other planets is the event of a hurrican from the last polar switch on that planet, example saturn once had a eye and serval smaller ones that have disappeared, currently satrun has no magentic feild, this is due to the event that the eyes or hurricans have reached the equator of saturn and collasped and now saturn is without a magentic field untill the magentic field of the staurns core reforms. this same thing has happened on neptune, the red eye of juptier one of the most famous sights of the solar system is the hurricane left over from juptiers pole reversal which occureed in the 1300s around the time of the plague in europue, the red eye of juptier will soon dissapear when it reaches the equator. juptier has had other eyes which have disappeared juptiers magentic field is still returning and is not yet at its maxuim. this same event happens on the sun during it magentic feild reversal, when the poles collaspe huge hurricanes travel its surface ending at the equator.
after the original collaspe of the magentic feild the only source of magentic feild is the hurricanes and the remaint feild left in polarized land mass, this polar feild of land mass is what effects shore currents of the ocean in its staic motion.
the event of the hurricanes actually sucks in the solar wind, and cosmic wind in to the hurricanes eye. just like present hurricanes that we see today in various parts of the world, which are caused by the breaking of magentic feild lines during seasons, the hurricanes gather up the atmosphere from the upper atmosphere and distrubute it, some gather from the upper atomsphere and some gather from the bottom putting tons of sea water in the sky. the hurricanes of the pole switch will do the same, however there exstreme size allows them to gather up solar and cosmic wind in close range to the earth, or during december cosmic wind and during summer solar wind, the gather of these gases are inportant to the earth reforming a magnetic feild, as the earths crust has to reexspand, where if the earths crust does not rexspand the earth will become as planet venus. in fact given the currnet state of earth it is presenly a very close call as to if the the earth will exsperince to much degassing to reform a magnetic feild that can extend past its crust. all things going well, the earth will be with out a magnet field for about 10 years to 50 years? at which time the magnetic feild will begin to reform at the 45 degree latitude. during this time the earth will have taken on much hydrogen and helium from the solar and comsic wind from the hurricanes which acts like a sheild from comsic radtion and will light the earth like a florence light bulb, 24 hours a day as seen on saturn and jupiter. during the time with no magnetic field the 10 to 50 yrs the atmosphere will seperate in to gaeous layers. this will begin to happen at the orginal collapse where oxygen and nirtogen will seperate,as there is no magentic field to cause them to mix, but due to the hurricanes the atmosphere will continue to mix but not by magentic static forces but by striing forces of the hurricanes. when the hurricanes disappear the atmosphere will seperate and the new gaseous of hydrogen and helium will seperate,forming layers of gas at this point the gases will beging to exspand the crust of earth allowing the magnetic feild to reform.
in general from the start the earth will suddenly get warm from the increase in concentation of gravity, and then enter a complete ice age as the space enters earths atmopshere.

mutations that occur during these times are due to abrupt changes in atmophereic pressures, tempture exstremes, and food resorces, hydrogen and helium in atmophere.and a lack of magentic flux.
example of this evidence from the last switch is the occurnce of animals and humans which commuincate by the use of vowels,
A,E,I,O,U and Y, this the prevoius form of communication by all life forms breathing atmosphere and the record of human speach accroding to it is the study of language development. plainly this is a event of commuinication and language of a life forms breathing air as the content of heium in the atmosphere during the time of the past polar switch will only allow for vowel sound to be formed coherntly in speach. consonants provide no clearity in speech and difficult vibration of the lyrx. what this means is that in humans and animals to commuincate had to change form the language they used befor to the use of vowels, during the last polar switch, since the exscape of helium from the earths atmophere the use of consonants has redeveloped in to current speech.


DWAYNE D.L.RABON

[Persol]

and the hut gets a little more crowded...

[MrBTawiliger]

fantastic response Dwayne do you study astrophysics or something of the like. Haven't got to much time to comment but as for Parsol your a very judgemental person for someone who doesn't offer up ideas of there own. Until you respond to questions with more than a snide remark about the the author then I will take you for a fool.

[(Q)]

Tawiliger

If you read through this thread and research the various arguments for validity, you’ll find that Dwayne has no idea what he’s talking about and is a kook/loon in the extreme.

[Persol]

Fine... I'll respond in detail. Just for a note, you shouldn't just make fantastic claims unless you have proof to back it up. I have not seen a question directed at me so I haven't responded to it. I agree with some of the more normal posts that were put up many pages ago. We have no reason to believe that the earth will suddenly sucumb to 'magnetic hurricanes'

Originally posted by Dwayne D.L.Rabon
these broken pieces of the magnetic field turn into exstremely large hurricanes
Why do they turn into hurricanes?

a example of this hurricane is the red eye of jupiture, the eye of netptune, the red eye of juptier and other planets is the event of a hurrican from the last polar switch on that planet
You know this how?

example saturn once had a eye and serval smaller ones that have disappeared, currently satrun has no magentic feild, this is due to the event that the eyes or hurricans have reached the equator of saturn and collasped and now saturn is without a magentic field untill the magentic field of the staurns core reforms
When did this happen that you were alive to witness this?

the event of the hurricanes actually sucks in the solar wind, and cosmic wind in to the hurricanes eye.
Based on?

however there exstreme size allows them to gather up solar and cosmic wind in close range to the earth
Why?

the gather of these gases are inportant to the earth reforming a magnetic feild, as the earths crust has to reexspand, where if the earths crust does not rexspand the earth will become as planet venus.
One again, what makes you think this?

during the time with no magnetic field the 10 to 50 yrs the atmosphere will seperate in to gaeous layers. this will begin to happen at the orginal collapse where oxygen and nirtogen will seperate,as there is no magentic field to cause them to mix
What about gravitational and convection currents? The magnetific field will not have an effect.

when the hurricanes disappear the atmosphere will seperate and the new gaseous of hydrogen and helium will seperate,forming layers of gas at this point the gases will beging to exspand the crust of earth allowing the magnetic feild to reform.
See above...

in general from the start the earth will suddenly get warm from the increase in concentation of gravity, and then enter a complete ice age as the space enters earths atmopshere.
You said in a previous post that gravity would decrease. Neither view is supported as the mass of the planet will stay the same. And what the hell does 'space enters earths atmopshere' mean?

mutations that occur during these times are due to abrupt changes in atmophereic pressures, tempture exstremes, and food resorces, hydrogen and helium in atmophere.and a lack of magentic flux.
There is no record of this doing the previous pole switch.

example of this evidence from the last switch is the occurnce of animals[b]
Um... no...
[b]
and humans which commuincate by the use of vowels,
A,E,I,O,U and Y, this the prevoius form of communication by all life forms breathing atmosphere and the record of human speach accroding to it is the study of language development.
So there was no athmospehere before the switch. And the vowels are the only sounds animals can make? And animals and man communicated? We must be losing it because of the upcomming pole switch :rolleyes:

plainly this is a event of commuinication and language of a life forms breathing air as the content of heium in the atmosphere during the time of the past polar switch will only allow for vowel sound to be formed coherntly in speach.
Breath some helium in. Your voice will get higher, but you can still speak more than the vowels.

consonants provide no clearity in speech and difficult vibration of the lyrx.
So why would we have started using consonants?

what this means is that in humans and animals to commuincate had to change form the language they used befor to the use of vowels, during the last polar switch, since the exscape of helium from the earths atmophere the use of consonants has redeveloped in to current speech.
And we suddenly can't understand animals because of this?



MrBTawiliger,
His post is without merit. Most people realize this. Hence my comment which was meant to be funny. I didn't think anybody would have taken his post at face value.

[MrBTawiliger]

Parsol on second and third reading yes it does start to pose big questions for me.. However on initial reading it is exactly what I described it to be 'a fantastic response' look up the word fantastic a. extravagantly fanciful, grotesque, quaint, marvellous. And I think you must certainly agree this response to previous conversation was most certainly fantastic! Now not being the most knowledge person on all the earth sciences but most definately having great interest I would not poopoo any persons theories until I could prove otherwise. Now in a 2 min reading between othertasks I cannot achieve such things only acknowledge their posting. Well done however with an inteligent response, when given the opportunity I see you can make a valid and inteligent contribution to a discussion. Please keep it up and criticise less as I am sure we are all here to learn.
SideshowB

[NileQueen]

Q: A decrease in the strength of the Earths magnetic field allows more cosmic radiation to penetrate to the surface. If, and this is a big if because we really don’t know the full effect, the magnetic field had gone to zero, most of the cosmic radiation traveling towards Earth would have penetrated to the surface. In that case, we would have noticed mutations in animals. However, no mutations are known to have taken place.

Interesting thoughts.

Well we had some widespread extinctions take place some 11,000 ya. Would you like to implicate cosmic radiation in those?

However, the most recent flip was ~730,000-775,000 ya (depending on the source). That is when the Matuyama chron changed to the Brunhes chron.

I thought gravity held the atmosphere in place, not the magnetic field....

[MrBTawiliger]

It seems everybody is misinterpreting my comments about the magnetic fields interactions with our atmosphere. Yes the atmosphere is definately held in place by gravity HOWEVER the extreme burst of radiation from solar winds have adverse effects on atmospheric gases unless protected by our magnetic field.

[Dwayne D.L.Rabon]

ok effect of magnetic feild on atoms.

to understand the effect of the magentic feild on atoms and therefore atmosphere, requires a understanding of the polarity of atoms. however a person can make gain by looking at the effect of particles trapped in the magnetic feild, normally called the Van Alllen belts, thereis also there practices of particle accleerators which use magnetic feilds to guid and acclerate atoms for collisions. plainly all atoms are magentic given a strong enough feild strenght. plainly atoms become more magnetic as they are cooled, prehence super conductivitv of atoms.
as all atoms have a electromagnetic force such as light,electrons prehence polerized light, they react when in a magnetic feild, the reaction of atoms or a electromagnetic force when in a magentic feild is at a right angle, for this reason paricles trapped in the magnetic feild of earth travel in a cirlce around a line of magnetic force. this same effect is seen on atoms on the surface of the earth, meaning that atoms on earths surface when reacting to a magnetic feild line travel around it in a circle. the stronger the magnetic feild the large the circle in which the atoms travels. this effect of magentic feild effects the atoms of the atmosphere stiring them, wherein the atoms of the atmosphere oxygen and nitrogen, which are very polar are stirred around the magnetic feild lines at a right angle traveling from magnetic line to magnetic line in direction of the earths rotation. the when during seasons the magentic feild changes areas that are stronger in magnetic feild strength create larger swirls of atoms in the atmosphere. prehence weather follows the geoid. this effect of atoms in a magnetic feild also is reflected in growth of plant life and humans.
because oxygen and nitrogen are highly polar and hydrogen exstremly polar the magnetic feild plays a large role in there motion. other events of motion for oxyegn and nitrogen invovle their rate of exspansion under thermal condtions, the reason that oxygen and nitrogen do not hold to magnet like iron granules is due to the event of thier escape velocity, and boiling tempture. when the magentic feild is removed oxygen and nitrogen will seperate, having no magnetic felid lines to stir them, in addtion when they cool such as in a ice age or exposer to space tempture the seperate even furthur as there is not thermal condtions to effect there exspansion rate causing mixing in the atmosphere, this is furthur effected by a increase in atmopheric pressure, were in gases seperate like all atoms under pressure and heat of tempture change.
when the atomsphere seperates during a polar switch the chagne in concentration of oxygen and nitrogen effects human preformance, in this case from sea level to 6000 ft will be pure oxygen from 6,000 ft to 15,000 ft will be a mixture of oxygen and nitrogen due to thernal exspansion causing convection, even with out a magnetic feild. people that are below 6,000 ft will suffer from over oxygenation, meaning they breath to much oxygen which burns the lungs, causes convulsion and then death. called oxgyen toxcity. nitrogen is just as dangeous as it can starve the body of oxygen where in it has a higher exspansion rate than oxgygen and can push the oxygen out of a area causing a person to suffocate from lack of oxygen. the proper mixture of oxygen and nitrogen is very inprotant to normal function, it is currently held that a little more oxygen in the atmospher that we breath would be better for humans, you can find this mixture presently on the ocean shores, where oxygen content is a little bit higher than inland.

actually the comments that i hear alot of the time are from people that could not htink for them selves, i notice that they for some one to give them their every thought, plainly they fail, personally i give what i can, but real some of them are sick, some think that there comments and slander are play full but i find most annoying.

going on the post is for those that are intrested in the magnetic field reversal, the sidewinders and tag alongs with there comments just get undue benifits. really who in in ther right mind would have conversation with slander artist, unless there was some chance that at least some worth while would benifit.


take example perole and Q, Q is a regular slander and add nothing of scientific value,example

Q will you tell us how close the magnetic pole is to the axis of the earth,

and what is the speed of earth rotation, what is the speed of the magnetic poles motion, and how this axis effects the earths roatation and the magnetic felids motion.

what is centifugal force, wil the centifcal force effect the motion of the magnetic poles. does a rotational axis cause a vector of induction.

just give us one of these awnser Q

DWAYNE D.L.RABON

[Persol]

Originally posted by Dwayne D.L.Rabon
actually the comments that i hear alot of the time are from people that could not htink for them selves, i notice that they for some one to give them their every thought, plainly they fail, personally i give what i can
If you want anyone to believe your ideas you must be consistent and explain yourself reather then jump to conclusions.

[chroot]

I love when newbies spend their first couple of posts scolding active, scientifically educated members about laughing at crackpots -- only to realize several posts later how dumb that was.

Here's an idea for you (it's part of standard netiquette): when you first enter a discussion group, LURK FOR A WHILE, and see how things work. When you're comfortable that you understand why people say the things they do, you're ready to contribute -- but not before.

- Warren

[NileQueen]

Andre Nilequeen we had the Lachamps Paleo Magnetic Excursion 40,000 years ago when the magnetic field dropped sharply. We also had the Australian megafauna extinction around that time.
Why don't they show that excursion on the chart at http://www.geo.arizona.edu/palynology/geos462/12paleomag.html
I see my note on Lachamps now.
Do you have a better chart? And what about the Blake excursion?
Yes something about Australia :)....

[MRC_Hans]

WOW! I have been gone for months, and find Dwayne still rambling along. And still as incoherent as ever.

Hans

[zechaeriah]

Originally posted by Persol
If you want anyone to believe your ideas you must be consistent and explain yourself reather then jump to conclusions.

i agree. and i asked Dwayne to cite some sources in his post a couple pages back and never got an answer. it's hard to take someone seriously when they don't back up their claims.

however, i'm glad this topic is being discussed here. i wish there were more scientific discussion about it instead of just random "facts" being tossed around.

[guthrie]

I was talking to a guy in a pub tonight (yes yes, i know) and he siad there was likely some minor effects on the weather with the altering of the magnetic field of the erath, since a lot of the activity in the atmosphere eg thunderclouds, is charge related. he wasnt predicting massive storms or anything, jsut more perturbations of the sort that make the whole system more chaotic and thus messier. Anyone heard any more about that?

[MRC_Hans]

No reason to put it upside down. Just turn it 90 dregrees. No, a modern TV set is not perceptibly influenced by Earth's magnetic field, which IS a very weak field compared to the fields used to create a TV picture. Saying a field is weak is a little too simple, though. Eart's magnetic field is enormous, and the total strength of it is fabulous. However, it is so thinly distributed that its density in any given spot is very low.

A pole reversal, which may or may not be upcoming, is very sudden on the geological scale, which means that it only takes a few centuries. It may have some influence on the climate as particles from the Sun influence the climate, and they are influenced by the magnetic field. There is no indication in the geological record that pole reversals are connected to major climatic events, however.

About Dwayne: I have taken the trouble to wade through several of his posts. They are interesting as an example on how scrambled the human mind can become, but they do not contain useful facts. What facts that have happened to find their way into the mind of Dwayne come out misinterpreted, turned upside down, in irrelevant connections. Sorry to be this blunt, but I'm perfectly willing to back it up with examples, should anybody want me to.

Hans

[zechaeriah]

i'm no scientist, but i don't see how we could even live without the electromagnetic field of the Earth. and therefore i don't see how the climate of the Earth could NOT be related. i thought it was a general consensus in the world of science that everything is relative. maybe i'm misinterpretting the notion, but it seems to me that if this is true then why WOULDN'T the two phenomena have anything to do with each other? the electromagnetic field is responsible for everything electrical on the Earth working properly, right? well, doesn't everything have electricity in it? the human body itself is governed by a fair amount of electricity. dare i mention lightning?

again, i'm no scientist, but these are the types of conclusions a layman such as myself would come to. hence posting here with a bunch of scientists to figure it out (so no flames please!). help me out here.

also, here is an article from Long island University talking about the effects of the Sun's electromagnetic field on the Earth's climate. unless i am reading this wrong, i see no reason why our own EM field wouldn't have a greater affect.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/03/000315080417.htm

[MRC_Hans]

Originally posted by zechaeriah
i'm no scientist, but i don't see how we could even live without the electromagnetic field of the Earth.

We could, but radiation from speace would increase.

and therefore i don't see how the climate of the Earth could NOT be related.

It is related, but not violently.

i thought it was a general consensus in the world of science that everything is relative. maybe i'm misinterpretting the notion,

Yes you are. Relative does NOT mean that everything has a causal relationship.

but it seems to me that if this is true then why WOULDN'T the two phenomena have anything to do with each other? the electromagnetic field is responsible for everything electrical on the Earth working properly, right?

No it is not. Earth's magnetic fields has little or no effect on most electrical things.

well, doesn't everything have electricity in it? the human body itself is governed by a fair amount of electricity. dare i mention lightning?

Dare all you want, but those things are not perceptibly affected by Earth's magnetic field.

again, i'm no scientist, but these are the types of conclusions a layman such as myself would come to.

But your conclusions are wrong.

hence posting here with a bunch of scientists to figure it out (so no flames please!). help me out here.

Trying to.

also, here is an article from Long island University talking about the effects of the Sun's electromagnetic field on the Earth's climate. unless i am reading this wrong, i see no reason why our own EM field wouldn't have a greater affect.

Again, it has. But not dramatically. It is just one of many factors influencing climate.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/03/000315080417.htm [/B]

Hans

[Dwayne D.L.Rabon]

Wait a minute you mean that magnets have nothing to do with creating eletricty, Han the eletricry in your region of the world should be cut of and forced to use candles.

every electron in the world is polarized by the earth magnteic feild. there is not one electron that can escape.


Dwayne D.L.Rabon

[MRC_Hans]

Originally posted by Dwayne D.L.Rabon
Wait a minute you mean that magnets have nothing to do with creating eletricty,

No I don't mean that.

Han the eletricry in your region of the world should be cut of and forced to use candles.

Is that an ad hominem?

every electron in the world is polarized by the earth magnteic feild. there is not one electron that can escape.

Electrons are not polarized.

Dwayne D.L.Rabon

Not really looking for a debate with you, Dwayne. Your reasoning is a bit too kaleidoscopic for that, IMHO.


Hans

[sharkstooth]

Our planet is constantly absorbing energy from the Sun. Obviously heat and also other forms of energy like solar flares and coronal mass ejection's. For the purpose of this post I will be talking about the later coronal mass ejection's ( CME's ).

A CME is a massive burst of plasma (ionized gas) emitted from the sun. The largest of which can be as much as 10 billion tones of plasma traveling at speeds of up to 2000 km per second. When this ionized gas collides with the Earth it can distort the Earths magnetosphere. The magnetosphere is the magnetic field surrounding the earth which is populated by electrons and ionized gas. The magnetic field spreads the CME forcing it around the earth and in effect protecting the planet from this attack. However a particularly large CME can compress the magnetosphere forcing some of its particles towards earth along magnet field lines as low as the upper atmosphere which causes the aurora borealis and magnetic storms. These particles would travel along the magnetic field lines until they met another magnetic force. The Earths magnetosphere reacts to this bombardment almost immediately and returns to normal after the CME has passed.

In the past some of the very large geomagnetic storms have been of such a magnitude that they have disrupted power stations and left people without a power supply. Could it be that we have not, as in modern times, witnessed the worst of these CME's and magnetic storms. If in the distant past a CME hit out planet with such force that it totally disrupted or magnetosphere forcing a polar shift, which has been speculated about, could not the effect of the Earths magnetic core have scared the surface of the planet as it reestablished a new North and South magnetic pole. The phenomenon know as ley lines could be the scaring left, magnetic fields as the Earth was forced to rebuild its magnetic poles.

In the book ' Secrets of the lost races' by Rene Noorbergen he writes- Just after the turn of the century and inventor Alexander Siemens ventured to the top of a pyramid accompanied by an Arab guide. When they reached the top of the pyramid the guide noticed that if he raised his arm with fingers outstretched he could hear a ringing in his ears. Siemens copied what the guide had done but felt a distinct prickling in his fingers. He guessed there must be something electromagnetic causing this and quickly manufactured a leyden jar ( device for collecting electrical energy) by drenching a news paper he had brought with the contents of a bottle of wine and wrapping the soaked paper around the empty bottle. Holding this make shift laden jar over his head it became more increasingly charge to a point where sparks began to fly out of it. The guide ignorant to what Seines was doing accused Siemens of witchcraft and attempted to grab him. Siemens lowered the bottle towards the guide giving the Arab. The guide received such a shock from the sparking bottle that he was thrown from his feet. On recovering the guide left in a hurry. Siemens concluded that for some reason the pyramid was discharging a powerful flow of electromagnetic current, why he could not answer.

Could the above story be evidence of telluric energy ( Earths own source of energy ). If the geomagnetic storms caused by the CME's somehow charge ley lines, in effect using the ley lines as magnetic field lines the electromagnetic charge would flow along these ley lines until they reached another magnetic force or in the case of the pyramid a device used to accumulate this electromagnetic charge much as Seimens did with the leyden jar. If this is the case are the pyramids by design or by accident accumulating this energy and did the ancient Egyptians know of this. If so did they tap into this energy and what could they have used it for.

[MRC_Hans]

Seems this thread is destined to live forever, resurfacing at long intervals, heheh.


Our planet is constantly absorbing energy from the Sun. Obviously heat and also other forms of energy like solar flares and coronal mass ejection's. For the purpose of this post I will be talking about the later coronal mass ejection's ( CME's ).

OK

A CME is a massive burst of plasma (ionized gas) emitted from the sun. The largest of which can be as much as 10 billion tones of plasma traveling at speeds of up to 2000 km per second.

You are correct, and it sounds pretty impressive, except space is a large place, and actually this stuff is pread so thinly that you wouldn't see it if you were in the middle of it (an unhealthy position for other reasons, though ;) ).

When this ionized gas collides with the Earth it can distort the Earths magnetosphere.

Not correct. That stuff IS the Earth's magnetosphere.

The magnetosphere is the magnetic field surrounding the earth which is populated by electrons and ionized gas.

Not correct. The magnetic field is generated by the Earth's core. It traps ionized particles in the surrounding space, and THAT creates the magnetosphere.

The magnetic field spreads the CME forcing it around the earth and in effect protecting the planet from this attack. However a particularly large CME can compress the magnetosphere forcing some of its particles towards earth along magnet field lines as low as the upper atmosphere which causes the aurora borealis and magnetic storms. These particles would travel along the magnetic field lines until they met another magnetic force. The Earths magnetosphere reacts to this bombardment almost immediately and returns to normal after the CME has passed.

The particles are deflected by the magnetic field. And, yes, the magnetosphere changes shape and size according to solar activity.

In the past some of the very large geomagnetic storms have been of such a magnitude that they have disrupted power stations and left people without a power supply. Could it be that we have not, as in modern times, witnessed the worst of these CME's and magnetic storms.

Magnetic storms do not disrupt power stations directly, such a statement gives an impression of great forces that do not exist. They create various problems that might probagate break-downs, even in power stations. And yes, we will surely see such things in the future too.

If in the distant past a CME hit out planet with such force that it totally disrupted or magnetosphere forcing a polar shift, which has been speculated about, could not the effect of the Earths magnetic core have scared the surface of the planet as it reestablished a new North and South magnetic pole.

Wrong. Polar shifts are caused by mechanisms inside Earth's core. DUring a polar shift, the magnetic field might be weakened or even temporarily disappear, leaving us without a magnetosphere to protect us from some of the radiation from space. But you are confusing cause and effect.

The phenomenon know as ley lines could be the scaring left, magnetic fields as the Earth was forced to rebuild its magnetic poles.

What phenomenon? What exactly is ley lines?

In the book ' Secrets of the lost races' by Rene Noorbergen he writes- Just after the turn of the century and inventor Alexander Siemens ventured to the top of a pyramid accompanied by an Arab guide. When they reached the top of the pyramid the guide noticed that if he raised his arm with fingers outstretched he could hear a ringing in his ears. Siemens copied what the guide had done but felt a distinct prickling in his fingers.

Uhh, after having climbed a couple of hundred meters of pyramid in the Egyptian sun, I'm not surprised they felt strange ;) .

He guessed there must be something electromagnetic causing this and quickly manufactured a leyden jar ( device for collecting electrical energy) by drenching a news paper he had brought with the contents of a bottle of wine and wrapping the soaked paper around the empty bottle. Holding this make shift laden jar over his head it became more increasingly charge to a point where sparks began to fly out of it.

Entirely possible that there might have been some activity of static electricity in the dry air, but the story sounds fishy. A leyden jar (which is just a primitive capacitor) does not become charged just because you hold it over your head.

The guide ignorant to what Seines was doing accused Siemens of witchcraft and attempted to grab him. Siemens lowered the bottle towards the guide giving the Arab. The guide received such a shock from the sparking bottle that he was thrown from his feet. On recovering the guide left in a hurry. Siemens concluded that for some reason the pyramid was discharging a powerful flow of electromagnetic current, why he could not answer.

There is no such thing as "electromagnetic current". If the bottle had been charged when being haded over, they would both have received a shock. Quite frankly, I think I have another explanation to the whole story:

- Long climb in the middle of sun. They brought wine. ... Nuff said.

Could the above story be evidence of telluric energy ( Earths own source of energy ).

No it could not.

If the geomagnetic storms caused by the CME's somehow charge ley lines, in effect using the ley lines as magnetic field lines the electromagnetic charge would flow along these ley lines until they reached another magnetic force or in the case of the pyramid a device used to accumulate this electromagnetic charge much as Seimens did with the leyden jar. If this is the case are the pyramids by design or by accident accumulating this energy and did the ancient Egyptians know of this. If so did they tap into this energy and what could they have used it for.

Still missing an explanation of what "ley lines" are. Before we agree on what they ARE, it is futile to speculate what they DO.



Hans

[sharkstooth]

Thanks for tearing my reply to bits lol. It was aimed more of a question as it was just a theory I had. Yoy would prob get more info than I could give you on ley lines if you did a search on the net. Im not sure if anyone really knows what the purpose of ley lines are. My reply was just a thought at what they may be witha posible explanation of how they came about. Amy more comments are more than welcome,
cheers
sharkstooth

[MRC_Hans]

Thanks for tearing my reply to bits lol.
My pleasure! I aim to please ;)

It was aimed more of a question as it was just a theory I had. Yoy would prob get more info than I could give you on ley lines if you did a search on the net. Im not sure if anyone really knows what the purpose of ley lines are.

More precisely: Nobody knows WHAT ley lines are. In other words, ley lines don't exist.

My reply was just a thought at what they may be witha posible explanation of how they came about.

They came about whan somebody thought some ancient landmarks were aligned in some way. Maybe they were; we don't know much about the cultures that made them. Many landmarks from OUR culture are aligned. SO what?

Amy more comments are more than welcome,
cheers


For some rason, the software wants me to lengthen my message with 10 characters. This will shurely do :rolleyes:.

Hans

[sharkstooth]

Ok I let it drop with some of the things you said reguarding my first post like a CME not dirupting the magentosphere. Why is believed that a CME was responsible for Mars looseing its magnetic poles and thus Mars looseing its atmosphere. As for ley line did it not occure to you that the sites linked by ley lines are there because of ley lines. Alot of ley lines have been discovered by the method of dowsing without linking them to any ainciant site. You should open your mind to new ideas instead of trying to debunk everything. The safe way is not always the right way.

[Edufer]

A google search provided many links to “Ley lines”. In this one at:

http://witcombe.sbc.edu/earthmysteries/EMLeyLines.html we can read this, that gives us a clear idea:
<dir>“According to Paul Devereux, it was the occultist Dion Fortune in her 1936 novel The Goat-Foot God (republished in 1971 by S. Weiser, New York, and in 1989 by Aquarian Press, Northamptonshire) who invented the idea that ley lines were "lines of power" linking prehistoric sites. A few years later, it was suggested that ley lines followed lines cosmic energy in the Earth and could be detected using dowsing rods. In the 1960s, ley lines, or "leys" as they were now called, became linked with UFO sightings.”</dir>

So we are jumping from a scientific discussion into an esoteric one. Let us not do it.

The Earth magnetic field is weakening, and some serious scientists consider this a signal of the next reversal. They say reversal have been happening a rate of about 200,000 to 500,000 years, and the last one happened 750,000 years ago. This means that we are long due for the next reversal. Although this would take some 3000 years or so to accomplish the whole reversal procedure.

There was a nice documentary on this issue on the Discovery channel, and it sounded convincing – in spite of the frequent rubbish appearing on Discovery channel, when it comes to airing scary things (global warming, ozone holes, species extinctions, rising sea levels, etc) for keeping the people scared about living on Earth. Why they do this? Because they play the game of presenting Earth saviors on many kinds, and that is big business.

[zechaeriah]

well, first of all, Dion Fortune was a student of theosophy and other esoteric paths. she didn't invent anything she shared in her writings, besides perhaps her speculations. but the objects of her discussion were supposedly what she learn from other scholars and books on the occult. so this Paul Devereux seems to be the one making up things here. ley lines have been known about for centuries. maybe Fortune coined the term, i dunno.

but second of all, i see no reason why we cannot talk about what is relevent. if we need to explore some theosophy while studying this stuff, maybe it's because it has something to do with the discussion. let's not stifle the thirst for the truth.

[Edufer]

It sounds good to me - this thirst for truth. So give us some evidence of the connection between Ley lines, theosophy, and Earth magnetic fields.

[mikster01]

Hi to all,

I am currently doing some research todetermine if the "holes in the Ozone" are in anyway caused by the changing magnetic fields in the earth.
My theory starts when you look at where the "hole" is/was maybe tomorrow... and the ends of the arch of the magnetic fileds in the north and south. I saw s documentary on this mag fields and noticed that in the approx area the the "hole" appears, there was a zone of more magnitisim at this point and the as I watched it you see the level decrease and then increase (pulse) over a period of time. Also noted that "hole" shows same paterns, just can't match the data by dates.

Just starting a Theory I guess, but I usually run them down till I can't go any further with them.
Any Input would be nice, usefull information is the best.

Thanks,

Mikster

[Eman Resu]

I am by no means an expert but is it possible that the holes in the ozone follow the poles? Just thinking that maybe there is a relationship between where the poles are (or ought to be) and where the ozone deficiencies actually are.

[Edufer]

Ozone molecules are paramagnetic, so they are influenced by magnetism. They are carried nortwhards by the terrestrial magnetic field, but the influence of the magnetic field is related to horizontal movements of the ozone masses (in small amounts) but there is no connection with magnetism <b>and ozone formation</b>, as magnetism does not break apart the oxygen molecule.

There are much greater forces acting in the ozone formation, mainly UV radiation (UV-C and lower wavelengths) splitting the oxygen molecule. Also, chemistry seems to play a very minor role, combined with physics on the surface of Polar Stratospheric Clouds that allows for chlorine to destroy some ozone at very high altitudes -only when temperature goes below -79º C.

Go here and see a study about why the magnetic field is acting strange:

http://www.tmgnow.com/repository/global/planetophysical.html

PLANETOPHYSICAL STATE OF

THE EARTH AND LIFE

By DR. ALEXEY N. DMITRIEV*

Abstract: Current PlanetoPhysical alterations of the Earth are becoming irreversible. Strong evidence exists that these transformations are being caused by highly charged material and energetic non-uniformity's in anisotropic interstellar space which have broken into the interplanetary area of our Solar System. This "donation" of energy is producing hybrid processes and excited energy states in all planets, as well as the Sun. Effects here on Earth are to be found in the acceleration of the magnetic pole shift, in the vertical and horizontal ozone content distribution, and in the increased frequency and magnitude of significant catastrophic climatic events. There is growing probability that we are moving into a rapid temperature instability period similar to the one that took place 10,000 years ago. The adaptive responses of the biosphere, and humanity, to these new conditions may lead to a total global revision of the range of species and life on Earth. It is only through a deep understanding of the fundamental changes taking place in the natural environment surrounding us that politicians, and citizens a like, will be able to achieve balance with the renewing flow of PlanetoPhysical states and processes.

[LFC]

Do any of you know wether or not solar winds could cause total devastation to the life on our planet?

[Eman Resu]

Not sure if solar winds themselves wreak havoc but I trust the disturbances in our weather they cause would. If the atmosphere turns into a windstorm then we had better learn to burrough with our hands, grow food and raise livestock underground.

Yep. Doomed.

[Asguard]

LFC depends what you mean. if a planet didnt have the protection we do and still produced life that life would probably be resistant to the problems of solar winds or it wouldnt have survived at all

[Edufer]

As long there is normal solar activity (sunspots) the solar wind does not harm to living things. Solar wind is solar magnetic acivity, and it pretoects Earth from a heavy shower of cosmic rays.

Why are you people worrying about things without importance? We live in a dangerous world, in a dangerous solar system, in a dangerous galaxy. So cool down your neurosis and try to live happy, and enjoy simple and common things.

[Billy T]

I did not read all this thread or even your long post, but in your first sections, you do not seem to know the difference between "atoms" and ions. Magnetic fields have very weak effect on most atoms (iron, nickel and a few others being the exceptions) and essentially no direct effect on the main body of the atmosphere (at least 90% of its mass) where all the gases are atoms not ions. (I think the only direct movement effect is the Stern-Gerlock effect and it is very hard to demonstrate - I think they got a Noble prize for showing it is real - that is how weak the effect is. There is also the Zeeman effect, but it only slightly changes the spectra and does not move the atoms.)

What you state about ATOMS being guided in accelerators etc. is simply wrong. The presence or absense of magnetic field has very little DIRECT effect upon the dense part of the atmosphere. I hope others have pointed out that harsh UV from the sun would be greatly increased by the absence of the IONOsphere if the earth's magnetic were weaker or absent and the temperature profile of the atmosphere would be somewhat different, but I don't think changed significantly at the surface.

In short, atmospheric atoms don't have "polarity"

ok effect of magnetic feild on atoms.

to understand the effect of the magentic feild on atoms and therefore atmosphere, requires a understanding of the polarity of atoms. however a person can make gain by looking at the effect of particles trapped in the magnetic feild, normally called the Van Alllen belts, thereis also there practices of particle accleerators which use magnetic feilds to guid and acclerate atoms for collisions. plainly all atoms are magentic given a strong enough feild strenght. plainly atoms become more magnetic as they are cooled, prehence super conductivitv of atoms.
as all atoms have a electromagnetic force such as light,electrons prehence polerized light, they react when in a magnetic feild, the reaction of atoms or a electromagnetic force when in a magentic feild is at a right angle, for this reason paricles trapped in the magnetic feild of earth travel in a cirlce around a line of magnetic force. this same effect is seen on atoms on the surface of the earth, meaning that atoms on earths surface when reacting to a magnetic feild line travel around it in a circle. the stronger the magnetic feild the large the circle in which the atoms travels. this effect of magentic feild effects the atoms of the atmosphere stiring them, wherein the atoms of the atmosphere oxygen and nitrogen, which are very polar are stirred around the magnetic feild lines at a right angle traveling from magnetic line to magnetic line in direction of the earths rotation. the when during seasons the magentic feild changes areas that are stronger in magnetic feild strength create larger swirls of atoms in the atmosphere. prehence weather follows the geoid. this effect of atoms in a magnetic feild also is reflected in growth of plant life and humans.
because oxygen and nitrogen are highly polar and hydrogen exstremly polar the magnetic feild plays a large role in there motion. other events of motion for oxyegn and nitrogen invovle their rate of exspansion under thermal condtions, the reason that oxygen and nitrogen do not hold to magnet like iron granules is due to the event of thier escape velocity, and boiling tempture. when the magentic feild is removed oxygen and nitrogen will seperate, having no magnetic felid lines to stir them, in addtion when they cool such as in a ice age or exposer to space tempture the seperate even furthur as there is not thermal condtions to effect there exspansion rate causing mixing in the atmosphere, this is furthur effected by a increase in atmopheric pressure, were in gases seperate like all atoms under pressure and heat of tempture change.
when the atomsphere seperates during a polar switch the chagne in concentration of oxygen and nitrogen effects human preformance, in this case from sea level to 6000 ft will be pure oxygen from 6,000 ft to 15,000 ft will be a mixture of oxygen and nitrogen due to thernal exspansion causing convection, even with out a magnetic feild. people that are below 6,000 ft will suffer from over oxygenation, meaning they breath to much oxygen which burns the lungs, causes convulsion and then death. called oxgyen toxcity. nitrogen is just as dangeous as it can starve the body of oxygen where in it has a higher exspansion rate than oxgygen and can push the oxygen out of a area causing a person to suffocate from lack of oxygen. the proper mixture of oxygen and nitrogen is very inprotant to normal function, it is currently held that a little more oxygen in the atmospher that we breath would be better for humans, you can find this mixture presently on the ocean shores, where oxygen content is a little bit higher than inland.

actually the comments that i hear alot of the time are from people that could not htink for them selves, i notice that they for some one to give them their every thought, plainly they fail, personally i give what i can, but real some of them are sick, some think that there comments and slander are play full but i find most annoying.

going on the post is for those that are intrested in the magnetic field reversal, the sidewinders and tag alongs with there comments just get undue benifits. really who in in ther right mind would have conversation with slander artist, unless there was some chance that at least some worth while would benifit.


take example perole and Q, Q is a regular slander and add nothing of scientific value,example

Q will you tell us how close the magnetic pole is to the axis of the earth,

and what is the speed of earth rotation, what is the speed of the magnetic poles motion, and how this axis effects the earths roatation and the magnetic felids motion.

what is centifugal force, wil the centifcal force effect the motion of the magnetic poles. does a rotational axis cause a vector of induction.

just give us one of these awnser Q

DWAYNE D.L.RABON

[echos_love]

hello, i was asked to try and find out by my science teacher what is/has caused the poles to change/ing.

is it to do with the core, moon or anything like that? also could you possibly tell me when the next switch might be, and is there a forimle to work it out?

i hope you can help, confused 14 year old with large intrest, tasha

[Ophiolite]

The magnetic field is caused by an electric current generated by flow in the outer, liquid part of the Earth's core. It's a sort of self-sustaining dynamo. It is in the nature of such systems to occasionally change polarity: i.e. the north pole becomes the south pole and vice versa.
This occurs randomly, so there is no way of predicting it. Reversals are usually several hundred thousand years apart, but sometimes millions of years have passed before a reversal.
It is believed that the reversal itself takes as much as one thousand years. Before the reversal it is thought that the position of the magnetic pole moves more erratically than normal and its strength declines. Both of these have been observed over the last few decades, so that some scientists think we are about to experience a reversal soon. (Soon in a geological sense i.e. the next few thousand years.)
Hope this is of some help.
Try these sites for more information:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/09/0909_040909_earthmagfield.html
http://www.open2.net/science/backgroundbrief/magnetic/story.htm

[Billy T]

Good reply Ophiolite. I read your first reference, and it too was good for the student, but I think it has one small error. It states that bees are aided /guided by magnetic fields. Probably this is based on observation that they, like homing pigeons, find their way just fine on very cloudy days. They use the polarization of the sky to do this. Please anyone correct me if I am wrong.
The magnetic field is caused by an electric current generated by flow in the outer, liquid part of the Earth's core. It's a sort of self-sustaining dynamo. It is in the nature of such systems to occasionally change polarity: i.e. the north pole becomes the south pole and vice versa.
This occurs randomly, so there is no way of predicting it. Reversals are usually several hundred thousand years apart, but sometimes millions of years have passed before a reversal.
It is believed that the reversal itself takes as much as one thousand years. Before the reversal it is thought that the position of the magnetic pole moves more erratically than normal and its strength declines. Both of these have been observed over the last few decades, so that some scientists think we are about to experience a reversal soon. (Soon in a geological sense i.e. the next few thousand years.)
Hope this is of some help.
Try these sites for more information:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/09/0909_040909_earthmagfield.html
http://www.open2.net/science/backgroundbrief/magnetic/story.htm

[superluminal]

There are animals that harbor ferromagnetic-containing bacteria in certain parts of their brains. The bacteria move in response to magnetic fields and the animals have adapted to use this. Don't know about bees though. This might help:

http://www.ks.uiuc.edu/Research/magsense/ms.html

[Billy T]

There are animals that harbor ferromagnetic-containing bacteria in certain parts of their brains. The bacteria move in response to magnetic fields and the animals have adapted to use this. Don't know about bees though. This might help:

http://www.ks.uiuc.edu/Research/magsense/ms.html
What you say is certainly possible (long ago I gave up thinking nature would not do strange things via evolution, if no physical law were violated in the process.), but I doubt it for two reaasons:
1) Not a good idea to have bacteria in your brain. Humans and at least some other species go to consideral effort to avoid this, even when the rest of your body is infected by bacteria (the "blood brain barrier")

2)In all creatures I know about, there is a great irony in that the center of all sensation is without sensation - Often humans undergoing brain surgery are fully alert. (Surgen want to make sure he does not distroy obviously essential tissue - typically he is tring to cut out a focus of eplisepy. I have watched this in main neurosurgy OR at Johns Hopkins.) Surgen, can push part of brain aside to reach below it etc. and alert patient does not feel this push! Compared to the movement a twisting bacteria could do, this pushing by surgen is a landslide.

[Ophiolite]

Good reply Ophiolite. I read your first reference, and it too was good for the student, but I think it has one small error. It states that bees are aided /guided by magnetic fields. Probably this is based on observation that they, like homing pigeons, find their way just fine on very cloudy days. They use the polarization of the sky to do this. Please anyone correct me if I am wrong.
I believe you are right. The polarisation concept strikes a familiar chord. However, it may not rule out the magnetic factor as well. Redundancy, even in something as small as a bee, would be no bad thing in the evolutionary race.
I confess I never read the entire article - just scanned it to see if it was relevant and at the right level, then placed my faith in National Geographic.

[Billy T]

I believe you are right. The polarisation concept strikes a familiar chord. However, it may not rule out the magnetic factor as well. Redundancy, even in something as small as a bee, would be no bad thing in the evolutionary race.
I confess I never read the entire article - just scanned it to see if it was relevant and at the right level, then placed my faith in National Geographic.

Reduandancy always comes with a cost. Bees are very "expendable." They have even done away the they ability to repare minor injury (too expensive).

Individual bees should be thought of as "cells" of the "bee organism" which is the hive. There are many highly specialized cells/bees in this organism - Some just feed the queen, some spend the entire day at the entrance to the hive, keeping it cool with their wings used as fans, etc. I doubt they would keep a magnetic back-up system when they gave up the primary "tissue repare ability" most creatures have.

Humans (and gunie pigs) have given up a system that most other annimal found worth its cost - the ability to make vitamine C. Linus Pauling, a great advocate of vitamin C, calculated that he should make 11 grams of vitamine C daily, if his ancestors did not drop the ability to make it, (presumably because it costs ore than it was worth when out ancestors lived mainly by eating fruit.) He took this quantity daily when he could. I think monkey still are within the main group of animals in that they make vitamine C, but I am not sure of this.

[echos_love]

thank you very much for the information, but i dont understande the bee thing