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Frequency1
06-02-12, 03:04 PM
This has been on my mind for several years now, so i thought I would come here and let it see the light of day... greetings, glad to be here.

Gravity as it relates to Dark Energy.

From my perspective, after giving this considerable thought, gravity is the consumption of dark energy. That is to say, that at its very core, gravity is simply the effect of energy (dark energy) being consumed by mass.

Mass, in order to exist (or by way of—via—its very existence), consumes dark energy. This consumption of energy is what we experience as gravity.

There is a flow of dark energy into all matter – the larger the mass, the greater the flow.

This flow might be considered as a waterfall from all directions, entering an object. This then is the flow of dark energy that we have come to know as gravity.

All mass consumes dark energy - gravity is the effect of this consumption.

Thank you for your thoughts on this.

John

mathman
06-02-12, 04:17 PM
In order for this idea to have any meaning it has to be subject to quantitiative testing.

Vern
06-02-12, 05:03 PM
All mass consumes dark energy - gravity is the effect of this consumption.
Why do you assume that mass eats energy?

The idea will be a hard sell; but at least you're thinking.

Frequency1
06-02-12, 06:07 PM
Why do you assume that mass eats energy?

The idea will be a hard sell; but at least you're thinking.

Hi Vern,

“”Why do you assume that mass eats energy?””

I stated that ‘All mass consumes dark energy - gravity is the effect of this consumption’. To my way of thinking, gravity is the effect which we witness, as energy is being consumed by mass.

Mass consumes energy (dark energy) in order to exist. Mass is tied to dark energy, because, as Einstein taught us, energy is mass and mass is energy.

Think of this, perhaps, as a continual state of existence (this continual dark energy mass dance, if you will), whereby mass, which is continually consuming energy, is doing so in order to exist.

All mass, as part of its very existence, must be in a continual loop with dark energy, in order to exist in, or within, the universe.

Think of dark energy as the universal grid, which all things must plug into, in order to exist.

John

Frequency1
06-02-12, 06:47 PM
In order for this idea to have any meaning it has to be subject to quantitiative testing.

Like QM?

Frequency1
06-03-12, 06:47 AM
Gravity has never been recognized for what it is – the ‘consumption stream’ of an object as it consumes dark energy.

Einstein taught us that energy is mass - and that mass is energy. In effect, it could be argued, that mass is simply one side of the energy coin.

Dark energy and mass are locked in this dance, if you will, whereby mass is continually consuming energy in order to exist.

Think of dark energy as this universal grid throughout the universe, into which all things must plugged, in order to exist.

All mass, as part of its very existence, must be in a continual loop with dark energy. In order to exist within the universe, mass is locked into a cycle in which it feeds upon energy, dark energy, for its very survival.

How could mass exist without the flow of energy, dark energy, into it? This energy flow or ‘consumption stream’, which we have come to know of as gravity, both allows for and stabilizes mass‘existence.

All mass consumes dark energy - gravity is the effect of this consumption.

John

wellwisher
06-03-12, 09:56 AM
Another way to look at gravity is to compare mass and energy. Energy moves at the speed of light, while mass has to move slower than the speed of light. As mass collects due to gravity, such as a star, general relativity tells us the composite reference heads in the direction of the speed of light; time and space contract. This suggests that the ground state of the universe is the speed of light. Gravity is just one way for matter to return to C.

To start the universe, say we begin with energy. Next we condense mass. The condensation needs to be slow down reference to less than the speed of light since matter cannot go the speed of light. Mass will then attempt to return to the speed of light, by any means possible. One way is gravity since this alters mass reference in the direction of C. Also the force of gravity moves at C. The speed of light is also true of all the other attractive forces of nature. As these forces acts, they give off energy or return part back to C. An accelerated expansion of the universe is also heading in the direction of C via special relativity.

This is simple and includes all at the same time. Dark energy and dark matter are simply a bridge between the two states. These exist because of the potential between matter and energy, with energy the ground state of the universe.

Frequency1
06-03-12, 12:36 PM
The 21st century view of the universe is that ordinary matter, stars, planets, galaxies and along with biological stuff like us makes up only a few percent of the content of the universe – a quarter is stuff that’s invisible – dark matter. The rest of the pie, nearly 3/4 of the universe is made up of dark energy.

The relationship of dark energy to the universe is nearly the same relationship as H2O to our bodies and water to our planet. Dark energy is the matrix the substrate that holds it all together. It is the medium with which the sculptor sculpts or the canvas with which the painter paints. It is the underlying vehicle, the underlying medium of the universe.

Dark energy allows for the existence of all matter.

It is the ocean which supports life and allows all for ships and all sorts of crafts to sail upon it surface.

So 3/4 of the universe is made up of energy which is, for the most part, a complete mystery to science.

My contention is that dark energy is this universal grid, if you will, into which all things must be plugged, in order to exist. And as matter, in order to exist, consumes this energy, it creates the effect we have come to know of as gravity.

A simple, too simple, explanation perhaps.

""Most of the fundamental ideas of science are essentially simple, and may, as a rule, be expressed in a language comprehensible to everyone""...Albert Einstein

Frequency1
06-06-12, 12:51 PM
Here's my final version:

Gravity and Dark Energy

The contemporary view of the universe is that ordinary matter, stars, planets, galaxies and such, as well as biological life forms like us, make up only a few percent of the content of the universe. An additional quarter or so, is stuff that’s invisible, dark matter, which does not interact with the electromagnetic spectrum, nor does it release any detectable energy; but does however exert gravitational force on the visible matter within the universe. The rest of the pie, nearly three quarters of the universe, is made up of so-called dark energy.

The relationship between dark energy and the universe is nearly identical to the relationship that our bodies have with water– both in terms of percentage of the whole, as well as it being a fundamental or base component of the organism. Dark energy is the matrix of the universe, the substrate with which all matter connects. It is the medium, the canvas upon which the artist paints. It is the underlying vehicle, the underlying form of the universe, which facilitates the existence of all matter.

So then, three quarters of the universe is made up of this energy which, for the most part, is a mystery to modern science.

My contention here is that A.), dark energy is the universal grid, if you will, into which all things must connect, in order to exist, and B.), as matter, in order to exist, consumes this energy, this so-called dark energy, it creates the effect we have come to know of as gravity.

An overly simplistic explanation, perhaps, but must all explanations in science be complex?

""Most of the fundamental ideas of science are essentially simple, and may, as a rule, be expressed in a language comprehensible to everyone""...Albert Einstein

Gravity has never been recognized for what it is – the ‘consumption stream’ of an object as it consumes dark energy. Einstein taught us that energy is mass - and that mass is energy. In effect, it could be argued, mass is simply one side of the energy coin.

There is a flow of dark energy into all matter – the larger the mass, the greater the flow. This flow might be considered as water flowing into an object from all directions. This then is the flow, the energy stream, of dark energy as it flows into mass, that we have come to experience as gravity.

Dark energy and mass are locked into an endless dance, if you will, whereby mass is continually consuming energy in order to exist. Gravity is the effect witnessed, as energy is being consumed by mass. All mass, as part of its existence, must be in a continual loop with dark energy. In order to exist within the universe, mass is locked into a cycle in which it feeds upon energy, dark energy, for its very survival.

Gravity is the consumption of dark energy. That is to say, that at its very core, gravity is the effect of energy, dark energy, being consumed by mass. Mass, in order to exist consumes dark energy. This consumption of energy, this energy stream, is what we experience as gravity.

How can matter exist without consuming energy?

Nothing can exist within a completely sterile environment, an environment devoid of everything – there needs to be an underlying framework or grid within existence. For our universe, dark energy is that underlying grid. Dark energy is an energy grid for all matter, it allows matter to plug into or connect with it, and thereby solidify its existence.

This energy flow or ‘consumption stream’, which we have come to know of as gravity, both allows for and stabilizes mass’ existence. There is a flow of dark energy into all matter – the larger the mass, the greater the flow. All mass consumes dark energy - gravity is simply the effect of this consumption.

“Gravity is Mass reacting with Dark Energy”...

.

origin
06-06-12, 01:19 PM
Here's my final version:

Gravity and Dark Energy

The contemporary view of the universe is that ordinary matter, stars, planets, galaxies and such, as well as biological life forms like us, make up only a few percent of the content of the universe. An additional quarter or so, is stuff that’s invisible, dark matter, which does not interact with the electromagnetic spectrum, nor does it release any detectable energy; but does however exert gravitational force on the visible matter within the universe. The rest of the pie, nearly three quarters of the universe, is made up of so-called dark energy.

OK

The relationship between dark energy and the universe is nearly identical to the relationship that our bodies have with water– both in terms of percentage of the whole, as well as it being a fundamental or base component of the organism.

How so? There is absolutely no evidence for that, and it does not make any sense, anyway.

Dark energy is the matrix of the universe, the substrate with which all matter connects. It is the medium, the canvas upon which the artist paints. It is the underlying vehicle, the underlying form of the universe, which facilitates the existence of all matter.

In physics you cannot just make stuff up with no evidence, mathematics or reason.

My contention here is that A.), dark energy is the universal grid, if you will, into which all things must connect, in order to exist,

Nothing but nonesense.

and B.), as matter, in order to exist, consumes this energy, this so-called dark energy, it creates the effect we have come to know of as gravity.

You might as well say that gravity is matter consuming space and the matter craps out dark energy. Both ideas are equally absurd.

An overly simplistic explanation, perhaps, but must all explanations in science be complex?

No some explanations are quite simple, but this explanation is just plain silly.

""Most of the fundamental ideas of science are essentially simple, and may, as a rule, be expressed in a language comprehensible to everyone""...Albert Einstein

"I've got to take a dump..." Albert Einstein.

There is a flow of dark energy into all matter – the larger the mass, the greater the flow. This flow might be considered as water flowing into an object from all directions. This then is the flow, the energy stream, of dark energy as it flows into mass, that we have come to experience as gravity.

Dark energy and mass are locked into an endless dance, if you will, whereby mass is continually consuming energy in order to exist. Gravity is the effect witnessed, as energy is being consumed by mass. All mass, as part of its existence, must be in a continual loop with dark energy. In order to exist within the universe, mass is locked into a cycle in which it feeds upon energy, dark energy, for its very survival.

Gravity is the consumption of dark energy. That is to say, that at its very core, gravity is the effect of energy, dark energy, being consumed by mass. Mass, in order to exist consumes dark energy. This consumption of energy, this energy stream, is what we experience as gravity.

How can matter exist without consuming energy?

How in the hell do you propose that matter can consume energy?

Nothing can exist within a completely sterile environment, an environment devoid of everything – there needs to be an underlying framework or grid within existence. For our universe, dark energy is that underlying grid. Dark energy is an energy grid for all matter, it allows matter to plug into or connect with it, and thereby solidify its existence.

Just because you say something or believe something that does not mean it has any connection to reality.

“Gravity is Mass reacting with Dark Energy”...

"A theory developed from ignorance is about as useful as a cat turd"...

Frequency1
06-07-12, 10:00 PM
"A theory developed from ignorance is about as useful as a cat turd"...

You have not disappointed – that’s pretty much the response I expected to get here.

Dark energy is of course energy, and that energy is being consumed by mass, creating an
energy stream that manifests itself as gravity.

John

origin
06-08-12, 07:36 AM
You have not disappointed – that’s pretty much the response I expected to get here.

That's good because you should expect this type of response when you have nothing to back up your conjectures!

Dark energy is of course energy, and that energy is being consumed by mass, creating an
energy stream that manifests itself as gravity.

John

The thing about science is that you cannot just make a statement with no data, evidence, mathematics or observations to back it up and expect any sort of acceptance. You should post this on a new age pseudo science site; they will love it.

Frequency1
06-09-12, 05:54 PM
The thing about science is that you cannot just make a statement with no data, evidence, mathematics or observations to back it up and expect any sort of acceptance. You should post this on a new age pseudo science site; they will love it.

The consensus seems to be that string theory has been superseded by M theory – so all of the “data, evidence, mathematics or observations”, (mathematical formulae, mostly) supporting string theory were what?

If one were to follow all of the dead end trails, it could be said that historically, physicists have been known to twist mathematics to suit their needs. Mathematics can't prove theories, but it can disprove them.

Saying that gravity is energy, dark energy in the process of being consumed by mass, or that mass is continually creating an energy stream (via the consumption of dark energy) that manifests itself as gravity, does not conflict w/ Newton, Einstein or QM. If anything, it lessens the inherent conflict between QM and relativity.

quantum_wave
06-09-12, 08:47 PM
In order for this idea to have any meaning it has to be subject to quantitiative testing.Maybe if you mean it has to be quantified and tested to become mainstream science you are right. But to have meaning in terms of discussing alternative ideas in an alternative theories forum, it isn't likely to be quantifiable or testable. Agree?

quantum_wave
06-09-12, 08:54 PM
OK

How so? There is absolutely no evidence for that, and it does not make any sense, anyway.

In physics you cannot just make stuff up with no evidence, mathematics or reason.

Nothing but nonesense.

You might as well say that gravity is matter consuming space and the matter craps out dark energy. Both ideas are equally absurd.

No some explanations are quite simple, but this explanation is just plain silly.

"I've got to take a dump..." Albert Einstein.

How in the hell do you propose that matter can consume energy?

Just because you say something or believe something that does not mean it has any connection to reality.

"A theory developed from ignorance is about as useful as a cat turd"...

This is not a hard science forum, it is here for threads like this. There is no indication that the OP intends this to supersede existing physics theory. It seems it is intended to exchange ideas about things that science cannot yet explain.

quantum_wave
06-09-12, 08:58 PM
The consensus seems to be that string theory has been superseded by M theory – so all of the “data, evidence, mathematics or observations”, (mathematical formulae, mostly) supporting string theory were what?

If one were to follow all of the dead end trails, it could be said that historically, physicists have been known to twist mathematics to suit their needs. Mathematics can't prove theories, but it can disprove them.

Saying that gravity is energy, dark energy in the process of being consumed by mass, or that mass is continually creating an energy stream (via the consumption of dark energy) that manifests itself as gravity, does not conflict w/ Newton, Einstein or QM. If anything, it lessens the inherent conflict between QM and relativity.
To me, it looks like you are a layman interested in science who has learned enough to know what mainstream science can quantify and test and what it cannot. Thinking about the big picture and not intending to "do science" qualifies you in this forum and your OP is food for thought.

Frequency1
06-10-12, 06:59 AM
I would like to thank everyone who took the time and made the effort to comment - much appreciated. John

quantum_wave
06-10-12, 09:09 AM
When you have something on your mind like the nature of mass and gravity, I don't think for a minute that posting it and getting the responses you got here will satisfy your desire to understand the universe. The universe is as it is and can be no other way, meaning there is only one reality. If you have weighed the popular science media versions of current theory, you know that we don't yet have sufficient answers to falsify the idea that dark energy flows into matter. In fact, the ideas you mention about the relationship between energy and matter, the underlying grid, and the composition of the universe address common ground between QM and GR, and that is exactly the territory that mainstream science has yet to resolve. The resolution may be comprised of as yet unknown physics that cannot be observed or quantified and so people asking you to do the math and prove you have the answers are pointless. The question that should be put to you is this: if dark energy flows into matter, do you consider it possible that it also flows out of matter? If that seems possible to you, then the effect of gravity could be produced if the inflow is directional from distant massive sources and the out flow is spherical in all directions. Then the object could be said to move in the direction of the highest density source of inflowing wave energy, perhaps. Keep working on it.

Frequency1
06-12-12, 12:09 PM
In fact, the ideas you mention about the relationship between energy and matter, the underlying grid, and the composition of the universe address common ground between QM and GR, and that is exactly the territory that mainstream science has yet to resolve.

An added bonus here is my principle unifies gravity with the rest of physics. “A good physicist should always be able to subvert mathematics to suit the theory”… but I’m not a physicist, and not even a good layman.