Ethics question

[Varda]

This is a question that is specifically targeted for Americans, but anyone is able to tell me what they think is the right way to act.

As you know, I am 2 months pregnant.
I went on a job interview today and I did pretty well and I think they're probably going to hire me.
I know that the law here doesn't demand that I disclose to them that I am pregnant, and that it also forbids them to discriminate me for that.
My husband says I should absolutely not tell them at least until they hire me, as that will put a big negative weight on their decision.
However, I just can't get myself to think that it is honest to keep this piece of information from them.

Some things to consider:
- Obviously, I plan to work there for several years, so a few months off for maternity leave, with the added benefit of being able to work remotely should not be that big of an impact. Will they think like this, or will they think that they are better avoiding the situation altogether?
- You'd never ask a man to disclose that their wife is pregnant, even though men also get a maternity leave and all the stress that comes with having a newborn baby. Is it fair to women that they should be open about it?
- A person with a cancer or a serious disease would not be obliged to disclose their medical situation to the employers. Should pregnant women be different?
- I can't tell them that I didn't know I was pregnant because I've already gotten blood tests and an ultrassound and it will show on my record. This is a position with health insurance and it will come up when they enroll me.
- Isn't it just a bad way to start a relationship with a new employer to hide this type of thing from them. I dread the situation in which my belly starts to show and my manager comes to me and asks "Why didn't you tell us?"
- Some comments I read online say that the best time to disclose would be when negotiating salary and terms of contract, as they have already made the decision to hire you. However, as no contract has been drawn, it could fall apart right there. What do you think?

My husband says I am to good for my own good, that I need to think about myself first and the more comfortable monetary situation that the job will provide for us and for the baby.

I just think about doing things in a way that would make my mom and dad proud of me. It's how I've always carried myself.

BTW, all you religious debaters who ever told me that atheists have no motivation to be moral, TAKE THAT.

Poll to come.

[scheherazade]

You raise a very interesting consideration, Varda, and an excellent example of one of the ways in which women can never experience a completely level playing field in the workplace, simply because of their biology.

Your husband is being entirely practical, and just because there are anti-discrimination laws in place does not mean that all employers feel bound by them, when they take their bottom line into consideration.

While it is not dishonest to NOT offer up such personal information unless and until required for health and insurance reasons, neither would I feel comfortable in withholding same from an employer with whom I was hoping to have a long-term committed relationship of trust.

Presuming that you have selected a workplace with a history of strong family values, that encourages the training and retention of it's workforce, you should be alright with letting it be known that you are actively planning a family AND that you hope to be a working mother. This is one of the positive reasons that you will be a reliable and committed member of your community and workplace.

Far-sighted employers will recognize that commitment, as in raising a family, contributes toward a reliable workforce that is worth investing their time and training into.

If the company is simply looking at the ink on the bottom line and whether it is red or black, then they MAY view maternity leave costs as a negative, regardless of what the law suggests.

You will have to go with your heart, Varda. Logic may suggest prudence, but I can't imagine you being happy working for a company that doesn't have strong core values.

That's the call that I would make, and a lot of people consider that I am too principled for my own good, also. I can't think of any lasting harm that such character 'flaw' has done me, however. :)

Once again, congratulations and may all your expectations be met and exceeded. I have a co-worker who just went on maternity leave last week. She is expecting twins for her first pregnancy and the whole staff of 40 + is as curious and excited as if we were all family, lol...

[wynn]

1. Seek legal counsel. Go to a lawyer that specializes in work law.


2. If they hire you but you don't tell them, and they fire you after you've left on maternity leave, or even before, if there are complications in the pregnancy, this will go on your work record, and it will not look good with future employers.
When a future employer asks you "Why did you lose / were you fired from your previous job?" what will you answer?

[Asguard]

My partner was in a similar situation except that it was about negotiating pay rises rather than getting a job.

My imidiate answer is lie because if its illegal to discriminate its illegal to ask and therefore why should you tell the truth. The only caviout to that is the health insurance issue that pops up in the US

[cosmictraveler]

Varda, if you owned your own business would you think it right for someone to apply to work for you and withhold information from you? This is what you should always do if you want to be understanding of any problem like this you face in life. :itold:


It isn't up to us to give you moral lessons of what you consider the right way to go but rather you should already know what you will do because shifting the responsibilities onto others only tells people that you have a tough time deciding between right and wrong. I understand that there are decisions in life which are very tough but those who have good sense about their values and morals will always find the right thing for themselves to do.:)

[Asguard]

Varda, if you owned your own business would you think it right for someone to apply to work for you and withhold information from you? This is what you should always do if you want to be understanding of any problem like this you face in life. :itold:


It isn't up to us to give you moral lessons of what you consider the right way to go but rather you should already know what you will do because shifting the responsibilities onto others only tells people that you have a tough time deciding between right and wrong. I understand that there are decisions in life which are very tough but those who have good sense about their values and morals will always find the right thing for themselves to do.:)

Cosimic, if you were a small buisness owner WHY WOULD YOU CARE? Its illegal to discriminate based on pregancy so why do they want to knkw?

[wynn]

Also - Depending on the law of the state/country, companies may ask pregnant women to sign a contract where they agree not to sue the company if anything should happen at work that would harm the baby, or something to that effect.


Imagine things like stumbling over a briefcase in the office, falling over a desk and hurting yourself in ways dangerous for the child you are carrying. What to speak if the job involves much physical activity or one where your physical appearance matters.

[Trooper]

Q Do I have to tell the interviewer that I'm pregnant?

A. No, you don't have to tell them. The fact that you are pregnant isn't relevant to whether or not you are the right person for the job. You might want to interview as usual and get the interviewer interested in your qualifications prior to mentioning your pregnancy. Then consider discussing your pregnancy during the negotiation phase of the interview process. Why bring it up if you don't have to? Because the employer will know in the near future anyway and you don't want them to feel like they were misled. Either way, it's a personal decision and you need to decide, based on the circumstances, when would be the best time to disclose.

From the other side of the desk, I supervised a person who didn't tell us she was pregnant. She took lots of time off from work, was very ill with morning sickness and because we had no clue what was happening, we were afraid she was deathly ill. We would have been much happier knowing she was pregnant!

Pregnancy and Employment (http://jobsearch.about.com/cs/womensresources/a/pregnant.htm)

[cosmictraveler]

Cosimic, if you were a small buisness owner WHY WOULD YOU CARE?

If you understand what I said then you'd see what my point was. It isn't that I would or wouldn't care, it was only to enlighten Varda as to what she should be considering.

[Asguard]

One more really sucky thing to concider, my partner misscaried which is why we weren't ecen telling our families at that stage

[Asguard]

You raise a very interesting consideration, Varda, and an excellent example of one of the ways in which women can never experience a completely level playing field in the workplace, simply because of their biology

Your not wrong about that sadly, I chose to tell my boss because he was a father woth a baby and i could use that to push for more hours (which ment more money we needed) my partnwr hid it because her boss was a basted who hated people taking meternity leave and therefore would have penilised her when it came to payrise time

[hardalee]

Owning an engineering company, I value my employee's honesty greatly. I have to trust them to make decisions that are correct, even though they may not be in the firm's or their best intrests.

I would be shocked to learn that a potential employee had not been enitrely upfront with us in an interview. It would cloud my judgement about thier future relibality.

I suggest telling them. I would respect that and it would be a plus rather than a negative in my opinion, provided that it did not drasticly impact the job or the project.

If you could work home, I would not consider that a great impetiment.

I hope this is good advice, but advice is often worth what you pay for it, and this advice is free.

Good luck

[Blue_UK]

It's not dishonest to 'conceal' your pregnancy. In the UK, and perhaps your country too, employers will get in a lot of trouble if they appear to exhibit prejudice (especially relating to gender). As such they definitely will not ask about this and won't expect you to bring it up.

I interview for positions at my company and we have a check-list of topics to be avoided which include martial status, religion, sexual orientation and whether the person is a lady of breeding age!

[Varda]

One more really sucky thing to concider, my partner misscaried which is why we weren't ecen telling our families at that stage

I read that a lot of people wait until the first trimester is done for that reason.

[Varda]

Important to keep in mind that I don't know what these employers will be like, as I am only in the interview fase. They seemed super nice and were very warm and welcoming during the interview, also their benefits package is very generous. Going with that, it seems to me that they would be good employers.

I am pretty much set on disclosing the pregnancy when we start to talk about salary.
If anyone thinks I really shouldn't do that, I'd love to hear what you have to say. I want as much input as I can get.
Thanks everyone.

[KilljoyKlown]

Important to keep in mind that I don't know what these employers will be like, as I am only in the interview fase. They seemed super nice and were very warm and welcoming during the interview, also their benefits package is very generous. Going with that, it seems to me that they would be good employers.

I am pretty much set on disclosing the pregnancy when we start to talk about salary.
If anyone thinks I really shouldn't do that, I'd love to hear what you have to say. I want as much input as I can get.
Thanks everyone.

I agree with the article Trooper posted. Next, how badly do you need the benefits? I only say that because you are on the clock now and may not have a lot of opportunities to get hired before it will be to late.

I say let them get to know and love you first, then they won't mind holding down the fort while your on leave. You didn't say how large this company was? How badly do they need that position filled and how much will it hurt when you take that leave?

[kx000]

Tell them now or you risk losing your job as a liar when they find out.

[KilljoyKlown]

Tell them now or you risk losing your job as a liar when they find out.

Not volunteering the info, if no questions are asked is not lying. Of course if the question is asked (Tell The Truth).

[Asguard]

Tell them now or you risk losing your job as a liar when they find out.

If its illegal for them to ask its also illegal for them to fire you because you lied about it. Thats how you actually prevent discrimination.

[cosmictraveler]

If its illegal for them to ask its also illegal for them to fire you because you lied about it. Thats how you actually prevent discrimination.

However they can find other ways to fire you if they think that you lied to them.

[Asguard]

And then you sue for unfair dismissal

[domesticated om]

Wow - I'd hate to own a company and be in this position.
The whole reason I would hire someone is to perform a duty. Assuming they aren't going to be there to perform the duty, then why hire them? If I have a product with a scheduled release date in n-amount of time, and the hire the new person....... then find out a month later they aren't going to be working to help my company meet the deadline, I would be up shit creek.

[Crunchy Cat]

As you know, I am 2 months pregnant.
I went on a job interview today and I did pretty well and I think they're probably going to hire me.
I know that the law here doesn't demand that I disclose to them that I am pregnant, and that it also forbids them to discriminate me for that.
My husband says I should absolutely not tell them at least until they hire me, as that will put a big negative weight on their decision.

Your husband is correct.



However, I just can't get myself to think that it is honest to keep this piece of information from them.

Then you don't have a good grasp of what honesty is and isn't. Honesty is telling the truth. Honesty is not disclosing every piece of information about yourself. When you interviewed for this specific job, did you tell them all about your first job when you were a teenager? Probably not. The reason is because the interviewer has a very specific business need and your teenage job doesn't meet that need. It would actually go a long way to ruin your chances of getting a job. Saying "Hey, I am pregnant" is no different because it doesn't do anything to meet your interviewer's business needs. If you say you are pregnant and you are certain you didn't get hired because of it (discrimination), good luck with winning in court. Your interviewer will state "I was asking about this person's job qualifications and she said she was pregnant. I can't afford to hire someone who is so stupid that they don't realize that being pregnant is not a skill that fills my business need". The end result? They win, you lose, and now you have a reputation amongst the HR community (yes Human Resources personnel have a community that span many different organizations across the U.S. and you will get a reputation).



- Obviously, I plan to work there for several years, so a few months off for maternity leave, with the added benefit of being able to work remotely should not be that big of an impact. Will they think like this, or will they think that they are better avoiding the situation altogether?

There is no telling how an individual will think; however, the average employer will avoid the situation altogether.



- You'd never ask a man to disclose that their wife is pregnant, even though men also get a maternity leave and all the stress that comes with having a newborn baby. Is it fair to women that they should be open about it?

There is no such thing as objective "fair" and the question is therefore kind of silly.



- A person with a cancer or a serious disease would not be obliged to disclose their medical situation to the employers. Should pregnant women be different?

Nope.



- I can't tell them that I didn't know I was pregnant because I've already gotten blood tests and an ultrassound and it will show on my record. This is a position with health insurance and it will come up when they enroll me.

You tell them the truth if they ask. You don't tell them anything if they don't.



- Isn't it just a bad way to start a relationship with a new employer to hide this type of thing from them. I dread the situation in which my belly starts to show and my manager comes to me and asks "Why didn't you tell us?"

The answer to your employer's question would be "Tell you what exactly? That I am female, have reproductive organs, and am sexually active? Do you feel that would have been something we should have discussed?". An answer of anything but "No" in that scenario would lead to an HR nightmare for your boss and company. The questioning would end there unless your boss was beyond stupid... in which case you follow through with a multi-million dollar lawsuit and retire.



- Some comments I read online say that the best time to disclose would be when negotiating salary and terms of contract, as they have already made the decision to hire you. However, as no contract has been drawn, it could fall apart right there. What do you think?

I think the online comments you read are niave.



BTW, all you religious debaters who ever told me that atheists have no motivation to be moral, TAKE THAT.

What you should tell the religious is that the peope who would discriminate against your being pregnant are statistically very likely to be theists.