Our mind as a sense organ, the seventh sense.

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by Bravowon, Jul 18, 2011.

  1. Bravowon Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    54
    René Descartes came to his conclusion "cogito ergo sum" - I think, therefore I am - after declaring that all of his other senses are fallible and if removed he is still left thinking, so he must exist. Suppose that darkness did not exist; could we then also conclude "I see, therefore I am"? If we think of consciousness or the mind as just another sense organ that can be turned on and off at will then it really has not more merit as the centre of our being than any other organ. So why is consciousness "always" on?


    There are some aspects of nature that are constant enough to be of utility to evolution - sound, light, taste, touch, smell, balance etc.- and consequently an organ is formed to take advantage of these utilities. The mind (not the brain) is such an organ but in place of light and sound it takes advantage of another constant aspect of nature and that is mathematics. We program robots with many human features but we can never get them to really think for themselves. Instead they act out their duties in a predictable and determined way because unlike us they lack the programing to really take advantage of the mathematics that manifests itself through it's brain and senses. Unlike our other sense organs and the rest of the brain, our minds are not limited to detecting present incoming data and can "see into the future" using mathematical probabilities created by the brain (as the principles of maths don't turn on and off over time this gives consciousness the "always on" quality).There is utility in making future predictions based on past observations to be enacted in the present and our minds detect this probability. Predicting the future also means we can take actions to effect the future which manifests as free will. We can't always predict the future very accurately but eyes don't always see clearly or ears hear very well and they are still called sense organs.

    Perhaps a sense of mathematical probability won't make it onto the Wiki page any time soon but it's worth a little thought.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2011
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,416
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. scheherazade Northern Horse Whisperer Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,798
    We attribute to the brain the faculty of coordinating the input from the other sense organs and processing this data into a useful format. That we are then able to make predictive extrapolation from previous experience is a further useful function.

    Further, we can hypothesize and built mental constructs of things unseen and as yet untestable.

    Then there is the concept of 'mind' and 'self-awareness', neither of which we have yet seen or measured and which some suggest are just an extension of the brain, yet nonetheless quite remarkable to contemplate.

    I detect that you perceive 'mind' to be separate from the functions of the brain, although dependent in some degree on information as supplied by the brain for it's functioning.

    Can you elaborate a bit more on your model of the mind as a sense organ? It would aid me in better understanding what you are putting forward and likely be of assistance in providing clarity to others as well.

    Thank you for an interesting thread start.
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Bravowon Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    54
    I lack the academic vocabulary to clarify my position properly and I have about 15min to put this down so please bare with me.


    The way I see it happening is like this: sometime in our evolutionary past we operated in an action/reaction way based on sensory input from the outside world (much like complicated robots) without self awareness. We developed these senses because the information from light and sound etc is constant and predictable enough for evolution to grab hold of and utilise for survivability. Over time this process began to complicate into a critical mass of what is essentially mathematical formula or fundamental principles of nature. At this point another constant and predictable aspect of nature became viable and was revealed in an organic form that could be of utility. If you could some how "watch" yourself functioning you would "see" that hidden behind the robotic "A moves B to C" information from our senses certain formula would keep reappearing. These formula are not apparent in any single sensory experience but accumulate over time. Although not the only way (and complicated behaviour can arises for a chance incorporation of a formula), I would say the best way of looking for these patterns would be to develop an organ to "watch" for them. I think that that organ is the mind (a function of the brain) and the act of "watching" yourself function is what makes one self-aware.



    I'm not saying that we are aware of exactly what is going on in our heads but we feel it in the same way some autistic savants feel numbers and words in a colourful and emotional way. Once something like this started to develop the advantage to creature would be enormous. For example if you see a formula beginning to develop that resulted in a net loss to yourself in the past you could take action to prevent that series of events from completing and plug in a compatible profitable formula. Not only this, you could also remove yourself from the causal chain and "play" a load of hypothetical formula to workout future scenarios.



    As the cost of thinking is relatively low (low resources) it would pay an individual to keep running simulations in their heads and plugging in the resulting favourable. Unlike sensor data, the principles of mathematics do not change over time which would give an inverted sense of perception. Instead of waiting for input to come in the mind uses the already established principles (which I'm calling maths) to feel what the eyes, ears, nose, body etc are doing as interpreted by the brain and stored in the memory.

    There is more to be said but I'll leave you with that for now. I don't have my thinking cap on at the moment.
     
  8. scheherazade Northern Horse Whisperer Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,798
    I think I'm catching at least an edge of what you are putting out here.....a computer program can likewise model numerous simulations on stored data and extrapolate from this data, yet it is not 'aware' of itself functioning, it just IS functioning.

    Humans, in running these simulations through their brain/mind are quite aware that they are doing so, and actually can conceptualize themselves being in these modeled circumstances experiencing the potential outcomes prior to taking a decision on which course of action to take.

    Human and computer may or may not arrive at the same determination, yet the human has actually traveled the path in their brain/mind whereas the computer program has applied the criteria of logic and filters as established by the program.

    The computer has done the work strictly from 'maths' while the brain/mind has actually factored the perspective of observer into the process.

    I may be completely off base with what you are saying, but this is my train of thought set in motion by your post.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  9. Bravowon Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    54
    That's basically it...

    I know the follies of common sense arguments but in a nutshell my logic follows something like this:
    Consciousness is underlined by self-awareness.
    Self awareness requires at least two elements,
    1. a self to be aware of,
    2. an element capable of observing ones self.

    This is basically how any sense works; Eyes (and brains for all) observe light, ears observe sound, noses observe smells and (according to this definition) minds observe selves. You are watching yourself watch the world resulting self awareness. So why not the mind as a sense organ?

    While this interpretation does not reinvent the wheel, I think it could bring some clarity in thinking about consciousness and self awareness.

    Just like the evolution of particles can form hugely complicated structures because of their underlying properties, so can a mind become hugely complicated by grasping the underlying principles of the basic information supplies by our other senses and interpreted by the brain (but only at the point when our behaviour was complicated enough to be of obvious utility).
     

Share This Page