Depression, Sadness, and Medication

Okay, I'll go ahead and speculate at the outset. That is, there are probably two main reasons why the practice of using cartoons to advertise antidepressants bothers me. One is that people got so pissed off about Joe Camel as being some sort of appeal to kids, even though the best jokes about him (the phallic face, the subliminal vagina on his neck) were aimed at adults. The other is that Zoloft did a cartoon some years ago that was, essentially, Silverstein's The Missing Piece and the Big O, and I've never forgiven them that one.

At any rate, it's not the cartoon itself that I wish to whine about today.

Rather, there is an advert for a drug called Abilify that is a cartoon depicting a woman with her pet rain-cloud looking depression. It can be a little gray ghost, a shadow hanging over her, or even a hole in the ground, swallowing her up. If it wasn't a brain candy commercial, I might even be amused at its cute factor.

The narration of the spot reminds that the character's depression can "sneak up" on her. And that, frankly, is what bugs me at the moment.

Depression, to my experience, does not "sneak up" on me. It does not "sneak up" on any of my friends who have been treated for depression. The cynic in me suggests Abilify is trying to encourage people to believe they should never be sad about anything at any time for any reason. Yes, sadness can sneak up on people. For several years, I couldn't listen to the Beach Boys' "Wouldn't It Be Nice" without feeling sad. And then one day someone gave me a new context for the song, and I can adore it in all its glory again. So, yes, sadness could sneak up on me if I heard that song coming from somenone's car, or over the sound system at the grocery store.

But depression? It hits like an anvil. And it hits like a cartoon anvil, to be certain. Did you ever notice that Wile E. Coyote eventually stopped looking scared, and instead seemed resigned to his miserable fate? Most people, countenancing a five hundred foot fall into a canyon to smack against the hard earth and then have an anvil land on their head would be terrified. But Wile E.? He just looked sad, like, "Oh, for fuck's sake, not again."

That is depression. That is the feeling of recognizing that you're awake, and that everyone will be much better off if you just roll over and go the fuck back to sleep.

Sneaking up on me? If I wake up at noon, and the light flooding into the room is bright, I can't say the sunshine sneaked up on me.

I have all sorts of tricks to keep me at least partially functional. I can brew a ten-cup pot of coffee at ten in the morning and finish it by noon, and start brewing another before one. I can smoke a pack of cigarettes a day. I can get higher than Jesus' tits stapled to a kite tumbling through the solar winds. But at some point, no matter what I'm doing, I have to stop and come down.

So when I'm tossing and turning at two-thirty in the morning, does that mean depression sneaked up on me? Or does it mean that the eight cup pot of coffee I brewed at ten in the evening and finished before midnight still hasn't worn off? Do I need Abilify to boost my generic Zoloft, or should I just stop drinking eight freaking cups of coffee shortly before midnight?

I don't get this whole idea of depression sneaking up on a person. But I'm only me, so it remains an open question. Does this really happen? I mean, aside from genuinely bipolar people? Or is it just one of those things where they're trying to convince you that you should never be sad, and if you are, you need medication?

Does anyone remember in the late '90s when they introduced a drug for General Anxiety Disorder and shyness? I can't remember what it was called, but one of the potential side effects was bowel trouble. Now, maybe it's reasonably arguable that if one is simply shy they might need to be medicated, though I find it a strange proposition. To the other, though, there is nothing about the idea of shitting yourself uncontrollably in public that strikes me as helpful to someone whose psychological disorder is shyness.

And, yes, that's kind of how the Abilify advert strikes me: Do you ever get sad? Well, you shouldn't. Ask your doctor for an antipsychotic! You should never, ever have to feel sad!

It's like in ten years I wouldn't be surprised to see a tag line that says, "Because you should never, ever have to feel like a human being!"

But, really, I don't get it. Can someone please explain to me this idea that depression periodically sneaks up on a person to the point that they need a drug for it? Really, it's just that by the time sadness requires medication, I don't get how it's sneaking up on anyone.

 

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You seem like a very intelligent guy. I had been like you for almost 2 years but then i economically took my own cognitive behavior therapy course by reading books on it. I went nowhere book by book but i started to find that they all carried a similar idea behind them. Then i ran into this one book and it made everything clear. Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy Revised and Updated Now I have been feeling great and don't experience any depression and anxiety for the most part if they surface i can deal with it till the feelings quickly evaporate. I realized just as you took the song out of context that it is the perceptions you take on the things around you that affect your mood.
There is nothing either good or bad,
but thinking makes it so.

William Shakespeare, "Hamlet"

That book i only read the first 200 pages from it and I was a brand new man and was able to finally get the control over my perceptions on things that i before thought i was doomed from bad thinking habits. If for the sake of one last good perception on life and hope I really recommend you give this book a read.

 

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Using the antipsychotics(AP's) for antidepressants isn't something to be done lightly.

AP's make you put on weight...in fact, some of them have been implicated in pancreatic damage. You can also get akathisia-apparently the Restlessness from Hell.

SSRI's don't have these effects, usually...and I'm not so sure about the tricyclics- which can be quite good and have been in generics for freaking ever.
The thing about the tricyclics-you can OD and die. Depressed people coming up go through a phase where they're actually very dangerous-still feel horrid, but enough energy to do something about it.
The SSRI's pretty much do not have a lethal dose. ( You will go completely psychotic for a while though.)

Abilify...of course, that's under patent.

Bizarrely enough-creatine monohydrate is undergoing a large clinical trial for treatment-resistant depression-yeah, the muscle-building supplement.

Edited to add:

Cognitive therapy's quite good.
But you don't have Major Depressive Disorder.
Therapy doesn't do jack for me IF I am not on a working med combo. I've had 14 therapists and read at least 20-some-odd self-help books.

For instance, I doubt you'd ever see the point in punching walls, or spend time evaluating bridges as to whether the drop would kill you or not.

 

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sounds like there is a major lack of serotonin in the brain. First goal should be to get something to increase the serotonin levels to nice level. If you go too high in levels you will get serotonin syndrome though so you have to be careful. some over the counter medication can do this. I would recommend lithium citrate or 5-htp & St Johns Wort if St Johns Wort isnt enough i would combine it with the 5-htp. Lithium citrate would probably be the best but lithium oratate could give comparable results and its non prescription.

 

I guess the message is depression is something you need to keep vigilant about. I manage mine with a funny-looking orange pill I take once a day. I top it off with nine other pills that keep me alive and I am 41 years old. Think about it. Then take the orange pill again.

Depression hits me like a one wood to the forehead but there are warning signs to an onset, and with a good enough doctor(s) you should have an ample supply of happy pills to keep you un-depressed.

I feel like Elvis- I know what the cocktail of pills I am putting inside me tonight will do to me and I play games with it because it's funny (how pills can take over your life).

For me, the big orange pill is 150 Effexor. If I go 24 hours without it, I start to wigg out. Three days out and I am ready for the nuthole yet again.

Amazing what a science pharmachology is.

 

do you have agoraphobia and depression?

 

Oh, I'm ok ATM.

Buspar, Zoloft, Topamax, AND a careful application of 5-htp. Along with a Quercetin megadose that seems to help a number of things-including my ability to think.

By careful I mean I check BP, pupil dilation...and if the BP goes up and my sleep needs go down? I am using too much...my medical condition actually seems to make my need for it vary. The sinus infection (9 years old now) aggravates the depression pretty directly-the infection gets worse, so does my mental state.

(There's Science that supports me on saying that...but I'm not hijacking T's thread.)

Advertising antipsychotics with cutesy cartoons makes me nervous...

I *have* had depression sneak up on me slowly, in the past...I used to just slowly ooooze downhill, until I'd wake up and realize " Hey! I feel like dirt! I need to do something!"
And that something was get a med adjustment or get a therapist and a med adjustment...I have spent about a quarter of my adult life in therapy.

Now-it really is the anvil falling on my head. I can go from okay to ready to die in two weeks. It's scary.

Edited some more-Jmpet: Effexor had me climbing the walls...

I had such high hopes for that med-but it was a flaming disaster.

 

No- I have Asperger's and I am bi-polar. In other words, leave me alone.

That's why I like this forum so much- I can get close to people while apart from them.

 

I tried other meds but found this one fit me well.Others didn't.

Realized all about brain chemistry.

Also makes me wonder about what I post here- which is mostly stuff I don't speak about with my shrink.

You're all my shrink. And I am yours-

 

Tiassa- that was a great read. I relate more than you'll ever know.

as for the coffee, are you really drinking 10 cups a day? that amount would turn Gandhi into a savage.
(here is a creative coffee clip for your enjoyment and self-reflection

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)

by the way, that line about public bowel movements not meeting the needs of shy people was comedic gold. but moving on:

-of course Abilify and Zoloft want everyone to think they need pills. their goal is to make profit, and even though it's immoral/despicable/destructive, they are doing their job. Consumers just gotta wise up!

got a couple questions for ya:
-do you feel particularly happy/creative/insightful late at night?
-when you speak of getting higher than Jesus' tits, do you mean :m

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-lastly, do you find it hard to relate to most people?

I imagine having a mind like yours is both a blessing and a burden.
I'm sure if you had half your level of consciousness/intelligence you would be happier-
but in all honesty, would you rather be smart or happy?

p.s. try drinking kombucha, it makes you feel like a champ.

 

Ah, if only there were a drug for improving functional literacy...


Edit: Sorry, I would have added something relevant but why, you know, break the pattern?

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I've had depression for about ten years. I've been on Zoloft for about eight years. I must agree that most anti-depressant commercials really piss me off for the reasons you stated above. It's as if they are suggesting that if you feel sad you should seriously get on medication to help out with that, and you should do so immediately because these drugs will make your life better and you will be able to do whatever you want! They're not unlike those beer commercials that suggest if you drink this or that beer then beautiful women scantily clothed with big titties will appear out of nowhere and party with you! AND YOU WILL LIVE IN PARADISE!!!

A number of years ago, a very close friend of mine had a heart attack and died. It was very unexpected. I got to the funeral early and decided to walk around the graveyard and reminisce about the good times we had together. Seeing his dead body in the casket a few minutes later was too much for me and I lost my presence of mind. I wept uncontrollably. throughout the funeral and later that evening at home I looked at some old pictures I had of him and cried and cried and cried myself to sleep. I couldn't remember the last time in my life I cried so hard.

That was sadness. And in all reality, that was a good feeling. Not good in the way laughing at a funny joke is, or good in the way I feel when I am spending time with friends or family, but good in a way that is largely unexplainable.

Despite my sadness about his death, I knew that what I was feeling was a temporary emotion, and that it would pass and within a day or two I would be the same person I was before. There was indeed a light at the end of the tunnel.

Depression is not sadness. There is no comparison between depression and any other "emotion". It is an empty black pit with no light seeping through. Without my zoloft, I do not "feel" anything except utter despair. Nothing is fun or enjoyable. No motivation. Constant images of putting a gun to my head and pulling the trigger haunt my every thought. Then I think about what a worthless and selfish piece of shit I am for having such thoughts. It is a vicious cycle.

To suggest that depression is a pervasive feeling of "sadness" is indeed insulting.

As to the "sneaking". Well, since I have been medicated for so long, I don't clearly recall the onset of it. I do remember that at the time I had every reason to be happy. I had a good job, a very nice apartment. I was engaged to a wonderful woman. I had lots of great friends that I spent a lot of time with. There was nothing wrong in my life at the time. But when I start thinking about trying to go off my Zoloft, I just think for a moment about how I felt when it hit, and I keep taking it.

 

This and That

Depends on how you measure it. Volume-wise? As in eight fluid ounces to the cup? You know, the little markings on the side of a drip pot?

Well, let's see. I picked up a sixteen-ounce coffee (two cups) an hour ago, when I took my daughter to school this morning. It's empty. I'll probably start a drip pot in the next hour. Sixty-four ounces of coffee—eight cups—ready at eleven hundred. Probably be gone by thirteen hundred. Right there I'm up to ten cups.

But that uses a fairly specific measurement. I was talking about coffee with my mother the other day, and she said she only drinks about four cups a day. Yes, that's true if we count mugs or containers. But by the measurement I'm using, it's probably about six to eight cups a day.

I'll probably make it through the afternoon pissing out that caffeine, and if I'm both smart and lucky, I'll make the second pot, another eight cups, around five or six. If I do so, it will be herbal tea (peppermint) for a hot drink, or Pepsi if I need more caffeine after that. I'm thinking that pot of coffee will be gone by eight. If I'm not vigilant, though, I'll make another pot of six to eight cups (48-64 fluid oz.) around nine o'clock, and finish it by midnight.

Interestingly, this is a recent change in my behavior. In 1997, suffering hematuria and suspecting a kidney problem, I cut my caffeine intake tremendously. I never eliminated it entirely, but for years I've been going with root beer instead of Pepsi, and generally avoiding coffee.

In the last couple years, though, I started drinking the occasional cup of coffee again. And in the last six months, I've returned to a regular habit. I did take measures to hold it off—e.g., making myself buy each dose at a coffee shop—but once I had a drip pot in my kitchen again, all bets were off.

To the other, I'm relatively thin, and my primary weight issue was that the growth of my middle-aged gut meant I had to reconsider my jeans size. Big deal. Some of my friends actually laugh at me, but I shut them up once by saying, "Yes, you're right. I have nothing to worry about. It's true, I haven't been battling weight issues for twenty years. But there was a day, just before my thirty-fifth birthday, that I felt my belly fat shaking as I came down the steps at my place. I remember it because it's the first time in my life I ever felt that. Really, the first. So I decided to start jogging again. And I've always wondered about people who told me they couldn't jog because it hurt their knees and hips and all that. I don't wonder anymore. Thirty-five pounds was the difference between high school and the day I realized I couldn't run a goddamn quarter of a mile without stopping because my ankles, knees, and hips were killing me."

And, yet, I realized just yesterday I'm losing some of that weight. In part because the coffee has replaced some of the food I would otherwise munch on to pass time. Like right now. I could snack on some cheese and bread, but I'm more likely to brew a pot of coffee instead. Also, of course, my metabolism is absolutely jumping right now. I haven't felt this high-strung for over a decade.

Yes, I've been a night owl since I was a kid.

Aye. I'm hoping to get a call later today.

Sure. Or else they've found it hard to relate to me. One or the other. Ouroboros.

Couldn't tell you. Some days the one, some days the other. Most days, though, I'd rather just be blazing high.

And ... damn ... it's amazing: It takes an actual conscious effort to finish these last sentences without dropping the post in order to go make that pot of coffee. If there was anything else that goes here, I have no idea what it was.

• • •​

Eh, these things go where they go. Like I have a few hundred words set aside in response to LI360, but the post isn't finished, and I still have to decide whether or not I really want to argue about CBT. It's not that I don't appreciate 360's post, but just looking at it for the moment, I can see how one might take it wrongly. Still, though, if this turns into an honest discussion of people's experiences with various therapies, I'll call it a good day for Sciforums.

 

good point about the sweeping generalizations. I suppose what is true for me is not always ultimately true.

Tiassa- are you in a state with cannabis dispensaries? If so, you can avoid having to "get a call", as you said.

I've even had cannabis delivered to me here at school, but the quality wasn't up to my standards, so I typically venture a couple blocks down the street...
(but I understand not everyone is as fortunate)

as for coffee, I love it as much as the next guy. In fact I'm drinking a pot of home-brewed Peet's right now.
It undoubtedly has anti-depressant properties.

 

Caffeine and THC

Indeed; we even had a Farmer's Market in Seattle a couple weeks ago.

I like my doctor; he'll point me toward what I need if he thinks we could get away with it, but he won't lie to get me around the standard, and I won't undermine him by shopping doctors. Really, my PCP is one of the best doctors in Seattle.

Meanwhile, we're winning the fight up here, albeit slowly. The feds were just in town a couple weeks ago, taking our daily newspaper to the woodshed after they started running pro-legalization editorials. The rule in King County, right now, as far as the Sheriff's Department is concerned, seems to be, "Don't give us a reason to care, and we won't." Hempfest is growing; organizers just won a legal dispute over adding a third day to the event.

Meanwhile, perhaps it's perverse, but I'll stick with the street for now. Maybe if my physician wasn't so damn good at his job, but I'm not risking that relationship for anything. Hell, we've been over my consumption habits before, and it's pretty clear he doesn't want to hear about it as a possible cause for any problems I might have.

And the distribution circle I'm closest to is reasonably wise and safe.

Peet's is really good. Up here, we have Ladro and Mukilteo to keep us safe from drinking Starbuck's or Tully's. Yeah, imagine that; we have three signature brands up here with national and international recognition—Starbuck's, Tully's, and SBC—but actual connoisseurs avoid them like the plague.

There's also a place over in Kingston called the Coffee Exchange, and I forget what their actual brand is. They roast on site, and make really good coffee. Except I tried their Harar, and while I adore the stuff for its flavor, its hell on my stomach. Seriously, I won't describe the output. Outcome. Whatever. Ugly. But really good coffee, and I'll probably try it again sometime, just to make sure it wasn't a batch-related problem.

I had to pick up my daughter from school early today, which interrupted my consumption. I'm just finishing that 11:00 pot of coffee, which was about 72 ounces worth.

Caffeine, sugar, and THC
Are all the doctor is gonna find in me
When they do the autopsy;
No, the microorganism won't get me.

—Boiled in Lead​

(Sorry, I can't find a copy of that song online, so ... let's here's "Jaime Across the Water", instead, just because I really like it.)

 

Depression is unwelcome fear from such problem that relates with the man and he ready to faces such problems or we may say it unwelcome tension or any serious matter that leads to hurdle and hardships may cause depression. And sadness caused due to depression and i think its better to have treatment and try to relax yourself as soon as possible and live happy and make others happy and don't take extra pressure on yourself.

 

Another word for bi-polar is manic depressive- they are interchangable. But "manic depression" is not a politically correct term for it, so it's called bi-polarism.

I am now just getting over an episode. It started two days ago. It was like a breaker tripping- a short circuit that led to an outage- my higher functions all turned off at once.

I am glad I read this thread before it happened because I feel I can answer some questions about it.

Like a light switch, it went off. I lost interest in everything all at once. My thoughts turned bad but I have mental mechanisms to deal with that. I felt trapped in an endless loop.

I didn't want to go on the computer. I didn't want to watch TV. I didn't want to eat. I just wanted to sleep. Tylenol PM is a wonderful OTC drug because in high doses it allows that.

I felt totally neutral; like a machine turned off. Uncaring, unreacting.

I got over it by refilling and taking Risperdal again- I ran out of pills and was too lazy to refill before I ran out.