Mental illness and Arizona shooting

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by milkweed, Jan 13, 2011.

  1. milkweed Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,654
    I sat through a murder trial and listened to a forensic psychologist give his opinion on the events and was wow'd by what he saw that never occurred to me.

    Loughner is ill. He is a murderer and there is no justification for what he did. Even mentally ill people (for the most part) know it is illegal to kill other people. And it appears to me that Loughner knew that as well. That said, I also listened to some of his youtube postings and could not make sense of them. I could not decipher what he was trying to communicate.

    Here is what is possibly an insight into what he was trying to say. I think it could be a fair (though not exhaustive assessment).

    http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread649059/pg1

    The above website has posted links to all his posts on this page here:

    http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread649091/pg1

    If nothing else, it gives insight into the disjointed thoughts and maybe someone else will recognise this in one of their family members and make the moves to get them help.
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,105
    As terrible as it is for those of you that use, I bet it will turn out that he smoked Marijuana and that the reason for all his weird wacked out conspiracies and reasoning was down to a Psychotic Episode caused by using the substance. They'll probably ask for a drugs test before weapons are sold in the future.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. 420Joey SF's Incontestable Pimp Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,189
    That is one crazy son of a bitch and the worst part of it all is that he's right.

    Stryder that comments borderline-retarded.
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    54,036
    That's bullshit.

    ----------------------------------------

    In my experience, it's futile to try and decode a delusional person's delusions. They aren't coherent.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2011
  8. milkweed Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,654
    Who is he? Loughner or the person interpreting his meaning?
     
  9. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,105
    Retarded would be not observing facts. Cannabis can lead to Psychosis in some people sooner than others (especially those that have already existent conditions like Post Trauma). That is a fact.

    The shooter was a drug user that had become distant to all those in his classes and become "unintelligible" in regards to the rhetoric and rants. That's a classic symptom of Psychosis as the person becomes their own advocate over any conspiracy, with no friends or family to identify just how they have changed or altered.

    Unfortunately that ends in only one of a few ways:
    • They could get the help they need, that of course requires them to accept that they need it.
    • they could kill themselves, after all the world wont change for you alone, it never will you either have to get use to it or submit to defeat.
    • Or in his case they kill others. Obviously it's understandable that you won't want to submit to defeat, however this doesn't teach anyone anything about anything, if anything it just causes more rights to be taken away because of an individuals stupidity or psychosis.

    (Both Killing/injuring themselves or others is usually a grounds for the state to force help on them. Obviously they would have to be proven to be a threat to themselves or others.)
     
  10. milkweed Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,654
    It was futile for me to try to decode, however, its not always futile. I found the post trying to interpret the meaning to be very interesting.
     
  11. milkweed Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,654
    Life can lead to psychosis. Marijuana use isnt the interest for me in this topic. Loughner is now confined and will not be getting marijuana. We will see whether or not its a real factor later.
     
  12. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,105
    While it states "He was clean of using Pot", nobody seems to take into consideration that his sudden reason to stop using it was that had been effecting his brain. It's likely as a result of stopping that he was then dealing with the physical damage caused by the substance over the time he had been using. (The bodies natural way to substitute the absence of Dopamine from no longer using, would likely increase the amount of sleep since that's the bodies natural way of generating the chemistry)

    I'd still state is is extremely pot related no matter how much you lot want your magic substance to be void of flaw.
     
  13. 420Joey SF's Incontestable Pimp Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,189
    Spidergoat is reffering to Stryder not the posters interpretation.

    And yeah milkweed I find the poster interpretation very interesting, I was reffering to that.

    Stryder its a fact that Marijuana can lead to psycosis? Wow, source the case for that one. Thats too much speculating you might as well say alcoholism could have been the case for his acute depressed state.... Take it one step farther. Hundreds of conspiracy theories can be linked to this. Take it for what it is. Since when does Pot make people delusional vigalantes.

    This guy wasnt mentally Ill enough to murder incoherently. This guy not only premeditated the murders but thought about the reaction he would get by the populace via media, etc. He made a point to talk about that. His intention I believe was to be vague enough to be misunderstood, to put enough substance in his message for those who can understand to do so and the action(murder) to recieve the attention that he may have otherwise not have gotten by other means....
     
  14. 420Joey SF's Incontestable Pimp Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,189
    Stryder source the cases. Anybody that can be linked to getting psycosis had a predisposition. I can source how marijuana can help/assist people with bipolar, depression among various other mental/physical diseases. This kid hadnt even smoked weed for that long.
     
  15. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,105
    http://www.examiner.com/health-and-...archers-link-marijuana-use-with-schizophrenia
    http://nvl002.nivel.nl/postprint/PPpp788.pdf
    http://schizophreniabulletin.oxfordjournals.org/content/21/1/141.full.pdf

    While indeed his actions were premeditated, it doesn't rule out that he was disillusioned. According to press clippings the guy didn't even think the world was real any more. He'd lost touch with reality and you can be sure to find out that it didn't just occur, that it's roots were probably from back when he had a brain storm while being stoned.

    Does that explain what some of the babbling stoner posters here are doing with what they write on various nonsense subject, being obfuscative on purpose and not just being incapable of being able to string a sentence together?

    Even if I had a case to source, you should know full well that Confidentiality is a major issue when sourcing things. After all if such cases were called on to outright stop the cannabis freedom movement they'd likely get stoner squatters defecating on their doorstep.

    That's only based on the current study outputs based upon people that are diagnosed as schizophrenic. (In fact the study is a bit flawed because they ask how many used the drug and how much they used, as opposed to finding "clean" volunteers to subject to drug usage. Such volunteers would have to undergo psychological screening prior to the test.)

    People write all sorts of shit Joey, you'll find most of those sources are just that. I mean you won't believe what you hear until it happens to you or someone it happens to effects your life, by then it will be too late.

    Like I stated previously, the drug doesn't cleanly flush from your system. You don't end up like a couple of years on and not feel the effects, the human brain is a complex system that remembers and can be conditioned and that is exactly what drug usage does, it conditions. Just look at weight lifters that stop using steroids, what does their body do due to the absence of additional hormones? Breakdown into fats and water? Cause them to potentially act more aggressive because the body tries to synthesis elevated product?
     
  16. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    54,036
    I think this kid's problem was that he quit the pot. He might have been a lot calmer if he didn't.
     
  17. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,105
    That is actually more likely the case, however if that is the case it would actually prove that cannabis has physically addictive properties that currently have been ignored due to the physiological condition through use.

    Incidentally while I will continue to point out the potential of Schizophrenia being caused by Cannabis usage, I will point out that any tests are dependent on the supply chain.

    You see you can have someone smoke home grown and not complain of any harmful effects, however their plants will have been carefully monitored by themselves. As for street substances you have a mixture of the villainous preying on those that require their fix, they get greedy and they do cuts with other substances to make up the weight.

    Further down the chain you have potentially the product being seized or doctored by particular groups or terrorists who cut the supply with a barrel of Thorazine. (You might ask why they would do this, perhaps they see drugs as wrong, perhaps it's a religious thing, perhaps they know that the drugs come from a country that has human rights issues caused by workers being manipulated to work for cartels, perhaps the drugs are grown to support funding terrorists to buy AK-47's and explosives, at the end of the day there is a myriad of reasons why people would want it stopped)

    Thorazine is a psychiatric treatment drug that is "Physically Dependent" so technically if you used cannabis more than once from that supply chain, you'd start suffering the side-effects which would cause you to suffer a post-traumatic episode and like cause Schizophrenia.
     
  18. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    54,036
    More nonsense, no one puts anything in the pot... or it would cost more. What it would prove is that THC has therapeutic applications. I know many autistic people for whom it is a great help.
     
  19. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,829
    Get to the other links later, but these don't support your case.

    The one fact that was unsourced is also not believable:

    One widely publicized 2007 review of the research even concluded that trying marijuana just once was associated with a 40% increase in risk of schizophrenia.

    Because if that were true, then the number fof schizoids would have gone through the roof.

    It hasn't.

    Arthur
     
  20. milkweed Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,654
  21. milkweed Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,654
    Please read the interpretations of the shooters posts and focus on that for this thread.
     
  22. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,105
    Proves you don't know much about the supply chains.

    I'll let you into a little secret, some years ago I dabbled in that supply chain, however I didn't cut any thing (in fact I left this path extremely early on), however I knew what methods were used. Most cuts obviously were to do with solid substances where other substances were mingled to increase weight or deal with the absence of potency.

    Usual things was Plastic (cling film), Diesel (yes petrochemicals usually associated with the method of shipment, but also could mask the potency to the young and ignorant.) as for things like Thorazine, Those cuts are for sabotaging the supply and the consumers.

    There are various "sprays" used on bud nowadays that I really wouldn't suggest burning (silicon sprays etc), they are used to again add weight to the substance.

    Obviously cuts with Cannabis are not like other substances that have an even greater list for what can be cut with it.
     
  23. 420Joey SF's Incontestable Pimp Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,189
    Stryder.

    Marijuana is not perfectly understood in the context of science or health. However, we do know for certain, that it is less harmful than various other legal substances and that it does have some medicinal purposes. In other words if your going to blame weed, you might as well blame other factors.

    There are pros and cons when it comes to almost anything that had to do with Marijuana. This is all part of the political bias concerning it being illegal. Not too long ago - it was illegal not to have marijuana. News articles show that he drank alcohol so much so that he dropped out of college. You can speculate on his part and blame almost anything and throw it in the pot (no pun intended) like weed, alcohol, pollution, water (people who are predisposed to certain diesases by certain things)

    I dont know why I cant blame any substance for his behavior. This to me required too much planning and thought regardless of how crazy it appears superficially it may or may not have been his system-of-thinking but it was someones not someone affected by something if that makes any sense....


    Also...

    See? Whats your point?
    I can argue your sources are more bias (evidence supports that it is more bias) but I think ultimately it would be a waste of time since I dont expect you to change your position that Marijuana is the devils crop.
     

Share This Page