A ginger german question

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by alexb123, Nov 26, 2010.

  1. alexb123 The Amish web page is fast! Valued Senior Member

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    Why are certain types of discrimination acceptable?

    Recently in the UK a leading politician insulted another politician in relation to his ginger hair. She later apolgised.

    Just this week I was watching the UK series of The Apprentice and one of the contestants, informed that he didn't like 'the germans'.

    However, if he had said he didn't like the Polish or Indians I'm sure it would have caused a stir.

    So why are certain types of discrimination acceptable while other are not?
     
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  3. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    Because most humans haven't evoloved very far as yet and think they are somehow superior to other humans.
     
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  5. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    Well, because Gingers are funny, well, they are short tempered freckle hoarders, and they fun to make fun of.

    Not liking Germans is fair enough, if you had an family murdered by them. We did fight them twice in recent history, after all.
     
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  7. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    The Germans I've met in my time have been all-right, not the "Nazi's" you base your history on. To be honest I would rather deal with Germans than a number of our current MP's.

    As for "Gingers", They get a lot of stick for their pigmentation, some know to laugh generally even if they might seem it stem from their personal hair colour and take it with a pinch of salt, others... well they tend to get red face, hurl obscenities and then storm off in a huff, which some people find amusing.
     
  8. alexb123 The Amish web page is fast! Valued Senior Member

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    Its also acceptable to not like the French.

    What country do you live in and what nations are you aloud to not like? For example which counties are acceptable for the USA to not like?
     
  9. wsionynw Master Queef Valued Senior Member

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    The MP in question was not making fun of ginger hair, rather comparing another MP to a rodent.

    Telling people you don't like Germans, French people, Ginger people, etc just marks you as a bigot. Normally this isn't a problem unless you are in a position of authority in which case it brings into question your ability to do your job. In that sense it isn't acceptable to discriminate at all.
     
  10. wsionynw Master Queef Valued Senior Member

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0
     
  11. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    In the USA there is a distinction between public life (politics, business, schools, etc.) and private life (what we do in our homes, the friends we choose, etc.).

    In education and in most aspects of business (hiring and promoting employees, renting out lodging, serving customers, etc.) it is illegal to discriminate based on certain specifically identified factors. These include ethnicity, religion, age, sex, marital status, number of children, sexual orientation (in some but not all jurisdictions) and perhaps some others I'm not recalling at the moment.

    In private life (choosing our friends, our roommates, our church, our school, the organizations we join, where to live, what stores to shop in, etc.) we are not legally prevented from discriminating against anyone for any reason. An obvious and uncontroversial example is: If you need to share your apartment with someone in order to make the rent affordable, you're free to choose someone who speaks the same language and can talk to you, eats the same cuisine and generates the same cooking odors in the kitchen, practices the same religious rituals, is of the same sex so modesty is not a problem, etc. If you're a Buddhist or a Samoan, you're free to patronize businesses owned by Buddhists or Samoans in order to increase the prosperity of the community you belong to so your next Buddhist or Samoan picnic is a big success.

    Of course the boundary between public and private life is not clearly drawn, so interpreting these laws and rules is not always easy. I live in my basement studio and rent out the main floors of my townhouse. Since there's no locking door between the living quarters and, indeed, we are required to permit free access for fire safety, and because the tenants have to come downstairs to do laundry, this is considered my home and my tenants are my housemates. So I can use any criteria I want to choose housemates. If there were a locking door and they had to buy their own laundry applicances or go to the laundromat, this would become an apartment house and I'd be required to observe the laws against discrimination in choosing tenants. Even though they would still be right upstairs and we'd have to listen to each other's music and prayers, and smell each other's cooking.

    If I get a few friends together who like to play go and we form a go club, and put a few dollars into a treasury so we can have a party once a year, we can choose whom we accept as members. But if the club becomes larger, dominating the city's community of go players so if you want to play go with anyone besides your wife you have to join our club, then we can't discriminate.

    So when you ask whom we are "allowed" to hate, it depends on whether you're talking about public or private life. In our hearts we can hate anybody for any reason. But in business and other public affairs, we have to obey the law. We can't refuse to do business with someone, or deny him membership in an organization, because he's German or any other nationality, Rastafarian or any other religion, red-haired or of any other physical description, married or of any other marital status, etc.

    In fact that Buddhist or Samoan picnic, if it's held in a public park, has to be open to anyone who wants to come.

    American public life is deliberately designed and managed to force us to socialize, at least to a certain minimal level, with people we don't like. That way we may find out that some of them are actually pretty nice.

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  12. Brian Foley REFUSE - RESIST Valued Senior Member

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    Because in Britain anti red hair/ginger humour is really veiled Anti-Irish racism and Germans are hated because they are more successful and the World Wars.

    But to balance it out outside of Britain posts such as these appear on forums:
    Why are British girls so ugly?
    Why are British men so bloody repulsive?
     
  13. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    So that was the genesis of the "ginger-vitis" episode of South Park, where they were sending all the red-haired people to concentration camps? I couldn't figure that out. I'd never heard the slang word "ginger" for red-haired people, over here we usually just nickname them "Red." One of our most popular comic strips is "Red and Rover," about a sweet little red-haired boy and his dog. In "Peanuts," Charlie Brown spent about 45 years in the second grade, in love with a "little red-haired girl," trying to work up the nerve to talk to her.

    I had never heard of any prejudice against red hair in the USA, and my people can find an excuse to be prejudiced against damn near anyone and anything!

    The Japanese think red hair is just about the most exotic thing people can have. Their advertising agencies routinely hire Westerners for photo ads, and Westerners with red hair are the most popular, followed closely by blond--both male and female.
    We went through our anti-German hysteria during WWI. People were kicking dachshunds, sauerkraut was renamed "liberty cabbage," and some kennel clubs renamed German Shepherds "Alsatian Shepherds" because at that time Alsace-Lorraine was part of France. (It changes hands about twice every century.) My parents, who were children during WWI and therefore their anecdotes are not necessarily reliable, said that the "temperance" wackos lobbied very energetically for Congress to declare war on Germany. (England was by no means universally popular among Americans, and some actually wanted us to enter the war on the other side. Geeze would that have completely rewritten the history of the 20th Century! A strong, victorious Germany would never have succumbed to the Nazis, a U.S.-German alliance would have kicked the crap out of Stalin in WWII, there would have been no need to create Israel, etc.) Ya see, virtually all the breweries in America had been founded by German families: Schlitz, Pabst, Hamm, Blitz, Miller (Müller), Coors (Kurz), Yuengling (Jüngling), Anhäuser-Busch, etc. So by fomenting prejudice against Germans, they got Americans to reluctantly support Prohibition and all the breweries were shut down.

    There was no repeat of strong anti-German prejudice during and after WWII. My parents' generation was too busy hating "the Japs" and tossing them into relocation camps.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2010
  14. Brian Foley REFUSE - RESIST Valued Senior Member

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    I know in America they had the red-haired Archie and his humorous teenage antics and Happy Days redheaded Ritchie Cunningham as well, and the Red Haired icon Howdy Doody. Unfortunately go to Britain and for two centuries they have attached negative or hatred to Red haired people, just take Charles Dickens fixation on evil redheads, Fagin a repulsive criminal redhead, Uriah Heep a creepy manipulative redhead or the backward redheaded Barnaby Rudge. Irish persons were always portrayed as Red Heads. Then look at British comedy fixated on Gingers, the Ginger kids episode would be pandering to the heavy British investment in US television.
    Yet back to socially backward ass Britain and its still Krauts and football chants whenever they play Germany of "2 World Wars and 1 World cup". Even insultively referring to German metal music as 'Kraut Rock'. I love Germans and Redheads, but go to Pommy land where the English think they are the greatest and most hippest people on Earth with the right to slag everybody else off. Criticize the English as with Mel Gibson in the movie The Patriot where the English complained of anti English racism they are a sanctimonious lot these Brits.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2010
  15. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    We love Ireland and its people. The leprechauns, Guinness Stout, U2, the Cranberries. My bandleader took a vacation there so we now perform a song called "I Love Ireland." Of the American tourists who have kissed the Blarney Stone, I would not be at all surprised if the majority have absolutely no Irish ancestry.

    There was a wave of anti-Irish sentiment around 150 years ago, when the Potato Famine generated a huge influx of Irish immigrants. But hell, the Americans of that era regarded themselves as an English expat community and there was a lot of resentment against all immigrants, even people whom we now think are almost a tiny bit better than us, like the pacifist Swedes and the hard-working Chinese. My Bohemian grandparents (we call them "Czech" now because it's easier to spell and pronounce) were treated like second-class citizens--no, make that third-class--when their ship docked in East St. Louis in the 1880s. Even the Italians, who gifted us with pizza, which is now America's Official National Food (I didn't look that up but I'm sure it's true) were spat upon.

    But back to the Irish, since they had the advantage of already speaking English it didn't take them long to be made welcome. By the end of that century they were so well respected that the Irish-American policeman became a stereotype. We had always elected only Presidents whose ancestry traced back to the nationalities of the original colonists: British and Dutch. But when we finally broke that pattern, in my lifetime, the first non-British non-Dutch President was from a German family (Eisenhower) and his immediate successor was from an Irish one (Kennedy--arguably our most beloved President ever, surely because he didn't live long enough to be held accountable for his mistakes).
    "Kraut" as an ethnic insult is long out of vogue in the U.S. We also use the term "Kraut Rock" but it's just descriptive, there's no animosity in it.
    We definitely do not use the word "Pommy." I had to look it up. Interesting that its origin is not authoritatively known. We just call them "English."
    It took us more than a century to get over the bad feelings from our Revolution and the War of 1812, but after fighting alongside the British in two World Wars I would have to say that in general Americans now love England and the English. We regard King Arthur, Shakespeare, Robin Hood and the Beatles as our culture too. For as long as this planet continues to turn, Americans will always be willing to die to defend England. You can still hear some Americans refer to the country as "Mother England."

    Yeah, we love the Irish too. That's their problem, not ours.
    And we "Yanks" are not? We who stomp around the globe, bringing freedom and democracy to every country that strikes our fancy (or is rich in petroleum reserves), even if they don't want it and we have to overthrow their government to get started?
     
  16. Brian Foley REFUSE - RESIST Valued Senior Member

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    Well lets hope Americans don't allow foreign investment in their media bring in with it bigotry from the point of national origin of investors.
    I got a soft spot for Americans, regardless of their faults, I tend to over look their Goverments actions when dealing with them, good surfing buddies.

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  17. PsychoTropicPuppy Bittersweet life? Valued Senior Member

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    Those Nazis were German. Even after all the political correctness it won't change the fact that the Nazis during 2nd World War were Germans. The term Nazi is too vague nowadays, to be honest, because as you might have realised when you only use 'Nazi' then that could refer to literally anyone from any period of time. German Nazi sounds clearer.
    The Germans are mostly all right though, until you touch upon the 2nd World War subject as far as I noticed. Some are ashamed of what grief their nation caused, but some others are still very eager to get their Sudeten Land back, and rather prefer to deflect all the evil on some other people like the Soviets, and then start to whinge about what happened to Dresden and Berlin, blah blah blah. I guess the guilt trip doesn't and never really worked for the Germans.
     

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