Found this story while surfing the net, the full article is at http://www.trufax.org./reports/2020.html The control of crime will be a paramount concern in the 21st century. We must be ready with our security products when the demand for them becomes popular. Our Research and Development Division has been in contact with the Federal Bureau of Prisons, the California Department of Corrections, the Texas Department of Public Safety, and the Massachusetts Department of Correction to run limited trials of the 2020 neural chip implant. We have established representatives of our interests in both management and institutional level positions within these departments. Federal regulations do not yet permit testing of implants on prisoners, but we have entered into contractual agreements with privatized health care professionals and specified correctional personnal to do limited testing of our products. We have also had major successes with privately owned sanitariums with implant technology. We need, however, to expand our testing to research how effective the 2020 neural chip implant performs in those identified as the most aggressive in our society. Limited testing has produced a number of results. In California, several prisoners were identified as members of the security threat group EME, or Mexican Mafia. They were brought to the health services unit at Pelican Bay and tranquilized with advanced sedatives developed by our Cambridge, Massachusetts laboratories. The implant procedure takes 60-90 minutes, depending upon the experience of the technician. We are working on a device which will reduce that time by as much as 60% [30 min]. The results of implants on eight prisoners yielded the following results: Implants served as surveillance devices to monitor threat group activity. Implants disabled two subjects during an assault on correctional staff. Universal side effects in all eight subjects revealed that when the implant was set to 116 Mhz, all subjects became lethagic and slept on an average of 18-22 hours per day. All subjects refused recreation periods for 14 days during the 166 Mhz test evaluation. Seven out of eight subjects did not exercise, in the cell or out of the cell, and five out of eight of the subjects refused showers up to three days at a time. Each subject was monitored for aggressive activity during the test period and the findings are conclusive that seven out of eight subjects exhibited no aggression, even when provoked. Each subject experienced only minor bleeding from the nose and ears 48 hours after the implant due to initial adjustment. Each subject had no knowledge of the implant for the test period and each implant was retrieved under the guise of medical treatment. Anyone heard about this before?
Excuse me for the strong word, but that one's just pure bull. It is against Federal (and I even believe international) laws to carry out research on human subjects without their explicit knowledge of all the procedures and risks involved, and without their explicit consent to participation of their own free will and being aware of all potential consequences -- even if they are prisoners, POWs, what have you. IBM, or any other American corporation, would have never carried out such a test, because they would immediately face extreme legal countermeasures -- probably all the way to dissolution. Not to mention the ensuing public-relations nightmare, and undoubtedly hefty jail terms and fines for the people who authorized and conducted such tests. While one can suppose that certain shady organizations could conduct illegal research like this in secret -- it is ridiculous to suggest that a very public company with too much success to risk it all would in fact risk it. ------------------ I am; therefore I think. [This message has been edited by Boris (edited July 06, 1999).]
Implants are a great Idea.. Im all for it. The only people who should be scared of getting implants are people who don't want others to know what they are up to. People like Theives, Con artists, rapists, Murderers, lawyers, child molesters, drug dealers. People who obey the law and are your normal adverage person should have nothing at all to fear of the day when we are taged like the cattle we are. I personaly don't care if big brother knows where I went to lunch or how long I spend in a bathroom. And Im sure Big Brother Couldn't care less either.. But I do agree that such test are most likely not taking place lawyers wouldn't allow it even demented psycos are protected by human rights.. And we don't know enuff about the human brain to control it yet.. I think. ------------------ (Midnight@golden.net) (Ouch.my.head) (http://home.golden.net/~midnight/) [This message has been edited by Mid12am (edited July 03, 1999).]
mid12am, do you realize they don't want to track you , but control you ? I don't understand how you could possibly be for that . Unless you truly consider yourself and the rest of us cattle. Forgive me , but I stongly have to disagree
But we are being controled.. Im just man enuff to admit it.. everything we do, see, feel is fed to us mentally from birth. Watching TV? Shows are funneled through study groups before hitting the air, Comercials are disigned to make your choose their product, News programs show us the world around us and shape our view of it. (and on a side note if you think the news is not telling us the truth because you saw a web page that contriducted the news well that writer of the web page is influenceing you too) Eating?Sleeping? We eat breakfast, Lunch, Dinner all around the same time each day. Has anyone knowticed that as a population we are staying up later at night and sleeping later in the morning? We are just like cattle.. All the problems in society are done by people who don't follow the rules. If an axe murderer was in your neighbourhood wouldn't you feel better knowing that with the touch of a button the proper athorities could locate this person before they reach the bedroom door of your child? Wouldn't you feel better knowing that police would be constantly monitored? Oh well thats just my opinion ------------------ (Midnight@golden.net) (Ouch.my.head) (http://home.golden.net/~midnight/)
Those are good points , however we still have a choice to watch the shows we want or belive the news/webpage reports we feel we should (I for one think it would be good if people turned off the TV & took a walk in the woods or just sit down and think for once.) With this chip, maybe Boris could give us his thoughts to if this is even possible, would give its creators direct control over our actions. That's just scary.
There is a great difference between what you describe, which is referred to as "socialization", and active control over your thoughts in realtime. Socialization has a significant influence over one's actions and beliefs. However, it fails to have specific control. Socialization may steer you down a general path in life, but you will still be able to exert some specific control over your life. (eg. you may be destined for white-collardom, but you still have a choice whether to become a doctor or a lawyer). What you are proposing is that we permit highly-specific control over individuals. They will sleep when they are told to sleep. Eat when they are told to eat. All notions of free will are lost. Once this occurs, one has to question whether there is any point to existence. You use the example of the murderer who would be prevented from commiting his crimes as justification for this sort of society. However, one must also realize the negative. The potential abuse of power is an obvious problem. Not to mention that any resistence to this would be impossible. Any sort of extremist idea would be destroyed. Since extremism seems to be the only way progress is made in our society, any hope of progression (perhaps to a society which was truly harmonious) would be destroyed.
First of all, it's the people who don't follow the rules that make sure we remain a democratic society instead of relapsing into some totalitarian, dictatorial military regime. Just imagine how swell it could be if some senator could pinpoint the location of his political opponent and destroy his brain with a push of a button. Yeah, I'd sure love to live in a society like that. Oh, and how convenient such a chip would've been half a century ago, when they had to deal with all those pesky civil rights leaders! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Mid12AM, you must not be an American, or you must really need some sleep, advocating such complacent submission! As for the reality of such a chip, I am glad to bear the good news. People who are talking about it have no understanding of the brain's architecture. In fact, it has been rightly said by many people that the human brain is the most complex technology we have ever encountered -- even far more complex than any flying saucer would be. Let me give you an idea of the monstrous scale of this immense computational machine that is so deceptively simple in appearance. While a lot of physiological functions (like motor, perception, endocrine) in the brain are highly localized, the cognitive functions are highly distributed. Memory is basically imprinted onto the entire neocortex, like a hologram onto a holographic emulsion. You can try to affect or destroy a large chunk of the cortex, but you will not affect memory overall (as long as you spare the important memory retrieval centers). Same is true of thought, planning, and basically any other higher cognitive function. These 'higher' capacities are implemented as complex interconnected and interdependent networks that put Internet to shame; the signal-flow complexity and parallel task execution confound even the brightest scientists of today. The human brain consists of about 100 billion neurons, each with 10,000 - 100,000 connections to other neurons (for a very rough total of between (1-10),000,000,000,000,000 connections). Even if we assume that roughly half of that is devoted to lower functions, we are still left with over a quadrillion connections for higher cognitive abilities! And that leaves out the rougly quarter trilliion glial 'support' cells, which seem to also somehow modulate cognitive function in addition to providing metabolic support for the neurons. Add to this the fact that neurons don't employ simple signals (like binary) to communicate; rather they use complex rate- and magnitude-coded sygnal constellations which have to date not been deciphered; and in addition at the synaptic level we use dozens, if not hundreds, of various neurotransmitters (signal-conveying chemicals), each bearing a different effect to the target neuron; thus some signals have various effects lasting on the order of milliseconds, and other on the order of days! AND neurons are differentiated into dozens of diverse classes, each with characteristic behavior. AND all of thouse billions of cells are operating *simultaneously*, at the same time managing to process the terabytes/sec of information from our six senses, plus our cognitive functions. AND that leaves off the complex interactions between the central nervous system (the brain) and the peripheral nervous system (the spinal cord and all the nerves that span your body). Not only do we not yet completely comprehend the unimaginable computational power residing within our skulls at even its most fundamental information-processing level, we are even farther from understanding how the millions of little ultra-complex and ultra-powerful neural constellations (called 'nuclei') interact to form the coherent and interconnected entity that we call 'mind'. At this point, all we have is the half-century-old meta-psychological handwaving about the overall, large-grained functionality of mind -- with *very* few of its sweeping assumptions actually confirmed experimentally, and many more of those assumptions already disproved! In fact, many of you (especially the religious types) will be delighted to know that far from explaining the human brain, the modern science hasn't even yet mastered the brain of a cockroach! So all your cozy speculations about soul-brain connections are likely to go without a serious challenge at least for a few more decades (but after that -- watch out! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!) So to suggest that we might even be dreaming of developing technology to CONTROL human brain is just plain ignorant and ridiculous (since we don't even understand how a cockroach's brain works, how could we possibly hope to *control* a _human_ one??!) So let's briefly touch on a few technical challenges facing a brain-controller chip: To interface a chip to the brain, you'd have to extend literally billions, if not trillions, of connections from the chip to neurons all over the brain, both to the surface and to the deeper nuclei -- quite a trick indeed, and with any foreseeable technology fatally damaging to the subject! Not only that -- but no two brains are alike even on the surface, not to mention the quadrillions of synaptic connections within. Each implantation would have to be highly specific and adaptable to an individual. Furthermore, as the brain continuously readjusts its function, the implant chip would have to dynamically readjust itself and its connections to remain functional -- which would not only demand incredible flexibility and energy resources, but also insane computing power, since the chip would have to infer, on the second-by-second basis, how the brain is reconfiguring itself, based solely on the sampled neurons from which it is recording. In other words, such a chip, even if possible, remains in the most extreme of remote futures (I'm talking at least centuries, if not millennia, here). In fact, it is likely that when all is considered, such a 'chip' would have to be more sophisticated than the entire human being whose brain it's supposed to monitor, as well as more flexible and intelligent! Not only that -- you'd have incredible difficulties with immune response when you have billions of foreign-material, constantly twitching and readjusting electrical connections crisscrossing every last cubic inch of the brain! The connections from the chip would obiously have to be just a few atoms in diameter, yet inches long, flexible and animated, and capable of self-repair and energy-efficient signal propagation (without wads of additional power to regenerate the signal, unlike the already ultra-sophisticated animal axons). And to do it all so as not to affect the personality or functionality of the implant target -- is just plain impossible as far as even my ultra-futuristic mind can see. Certainly, no such capabilities are even remotely present in any modern technology -- and not even in the wildest technological dreams of tomorrow. Hope that dispels a few mind-control government conspiracy delusions. ------------------ I am; therefore I think. [This message has been edited by Boris (edited July 05, 1999).]
that is GOOD news I read the article to mean the chip would broadcast at diffrent frequencies to disrupt brainpatterns? I'm really in the dark conserning this nueral stuff
Ah, that's a different topic. It is far harder to create, and even to control, than to simply destroy or disable. Certainly, there are ways of disrupting cortical activity -- from surgical lesion, to electroshock, to drugs. If all we want to do is to temporarily disrupt the consciousness of a subject by inducing a fainting spell, or a short-duration seizure, then we certainly have the right tools at our disposal. However, it is still impossible that IBM, or any public company, would be involved in the kind of illicit research that was described -- for the reasons I outlined in the second post of this thread. ------------------ I am; therefore I think. [This message has been edited by Boris (edited July 06, 1999).]
If this came to be, it would truly be a scary thing. I wonder since this is allready out in the "open" if there is a program like that going on right now, witout us knowing it... scary stuff....Brrrrr ------------------ Just waiting for my peabrain to boot into English :\
Ok I'll try to be breif.. Yes you have a choice with what you want to be in life but how you do what you want to be in life is controled.. you just can't open up a room in your house and say "Im a Doctor, Let me grab my leaches!" You need training which is all controled.. you have to follow the proper instructions or you fail.. thus you are being controled. Choices are made but your choice is doesn't matter you still will never have complete freedom. You all are looking at the negitive side of all this. Someone said the civil rights movement would have never happened.. If we all had implants the civil rights movement would never had been nessissary. Everyone would have been equal from the start! PS. Your right (Insert name here of person who asked) I'm Not an American, I'm a Canadian but most of all I'm a Human. ------------------ (Midnight@golden.net) (Ouch.my.head) (http://home.golden.net/~midnight/) [This message has been edited by Mid12am (edited July 07, 1999).]
Boris, All of those billions of connections, and yet so many stupid people walking around? But seriously. If you read the article? This was not about explicit control. This reported technology which would function in a similiar way to electro-shock therapy. A well known and some what contravertial method of treating the clinically insane, and in some cases without the consent of the persons kin. I accept beyond reason the brains complexity, and the thought of implants to control complex actions at this time as science fiction. However, another angle on this for debate, would be the fact that so many people have claimed to have been abducted in the past, and implants have been found. Is it possibly conceivable that they were not abducted by aliens, but the implants have a more Earthly origin? [This message has been edited by Mike (edited July 08, 1999).] [This message has been edited by Mike (edited July 08, 1999).]
Boris, One more point, you stated. (So all your cozy speculations about soul-brain connections are likely to go without a serious challenge at least for a few more decades (but after that -- watch out! ) So to suggest that we might even be dreaming of developing technology to CONTROL human brain is just plain ignorant and ridiculous (since we don't even understand how a cockroach's)) Now don`t you think if all human beings shared your point of view, that is laughing at possible technological developements, we`d still be living in caves! Just remember, people laughed at the Wright brothers, Columbus, Magellan and even Kennedy when he said he`d put a man on the moon. Technology marches on even if you don`t understand it. [This message has been edited by Mike (edited July 08, 1999).]
A humans entire lifetime could be recorded on a 1 petabyte tablet. The Chips today (State of the art chips, not the ones in your computer. :>) are much more effeciant in storing information then the human brain could. Also, Any computer could be instructed to emulate any other computer (at a slower speed of course) So. All this talk about the human brain not being able to be controlled. Not being able to be tracked or altered is nothing more then hopefull thinking. There are things out there that make what we THINK is state of the art look like the IBM mainframes of the 60's. You think you know everything? The Gov't was developing the Stealth Fighter in the late SIXTYS.. Who knows what they have in the works now. Have fun in your daydreams of the world being a nice place. And that your future is your own. The first step in becoming wise is the admittence that you know nothing.
To all those indignant believers in human technological prowess: I would be the last to dismiss <u>plausible</u> technological possibilities. However, one needs to draw a line between science fiction, and pure fiction. As advanced as our science is (and contrary to popular belief, government does not hide pure science -- they hide *applied* science, as in 'technology') it presently cannot even dream of controling the brain (for many reasons I have outlined, and many others I did not) -- no more than controlling the evolution of stars in our galaxy. While such feats might be in principle achievable by infinitely advanced civilizations, I wouldn't loose any sleep over the chances of it happening during our lifetimes (or even within the next few thousand years). Of course, all I can do is give a reasoned argument. If you choose to ignore the logic, then you made your choice; it's as simple as that. ------------------ I am; therefore I think.
Hmm...Choosing to ignore logic? I have always perceived what`s implausible now will someday be possible. This is logic, and no matter how determined you are to believe that this won`t happen, logic to me dictates that it will. [This message has been edited by Mike (edited July 26, 1999).]
