Early childhood experiences do not determine adult outcomes

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by wynn, Oct 11, 2010.

  1. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    According to this article, early childhood experiences do not determine adult outcomes:


     
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  3. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

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    Thanks Signal, interesting points.

    I have little patience for people who try and tell me that any problem of mine must be due to some childhood trauma. Ya know, because you can't just have a volatile temper, it must be because you were abused as a kid and later blocked it out, or some such crap.
     
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  5. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    In the two examples quoted, childhood experience was by far the most important single influence on adult behavior.

    I'm not sure what the point was - that the effects of damaging childhood influences can be overcome?
     
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  7. birch Valued Senior Member

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    obviously some issues will be influenced by past experience and some is just your own genetics or personality. if experiences were seriously traumatic, then it will affect someone's life.

    it's not just experience but how you were taught or if you were nurtured or not as well as if you were even taken care of properly. if it doesn't entirely break someone, there may be more to overcome as there are more setbacks or issues that someone has to deal with whether physical, emotional or mental.
     
  8. francois Schwat? Registered Senior Member

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    We tend to overrate the impact of environment. Parents tend to unjustly congratulate themselves when their children grow to be successful, and blame themselves when they become criminals. Our behaviors aren't as influential to our children as we think they are.--Well, that's why my psychology textbook says anyway.

    Perhaps the reason children grow to behave so much like their parents is not because they're emulating them, but because they share a lot of the same genes. After all, children look a lot like their parents. Why shouldn't the same mechanism cause them to behave similarly?
     
  9. SilentLi89 Registered Senior Member

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    Umm... Didn't those examples just prove that childhood experiences can determine adult outcomes?
    I think all of our experiences shape the choices we make as adults. It's rare that people behave the way they do for no reason at all. Past experiences don't have to define your life, but they are always a part of who you are. Of course that doesn't give you the excuse to just blame everything else for the way you are and be a victim, but knowing where it came from is a start for changing your behavior if that is what you want to do.
     
  10. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    The way you phrased your question already implies that a person's current behavior was determined by their childhood experiences.
    This connection, however, is hard to prove.

    In some other cultures, like those in the Far East, they tend not to think like we tend to. If an adult person has a problem, they focus on their present life, and address that, they don't go digging up the past.
     
  11. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Signal,

    This does not take into account "fear" itself, focusing on the petit detail.
    It was "fear" then, and "fear" now.

    With regard to smoking, I would have thought the reason folks carry on is due
    to addiction.

    I think early childhood experiences do determine adult outcomes if the experiences
    are emotional.

    jan.
     
  12. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    15,058
    Okay, here's a personal example:

    I am very much afraid of dogs. I startle and get scared at the slightest bark.
    I have had several very scary experiences with dogs ever since I was little.

    Since dogs are pretty much unavoidable in this world, and there are several in the street I live in, I can not simply try to ignore them or avoid them, and I have to think about them and my fear.

    A while back, a dog in the street charged at me for no apparent reason (other than that he seems neurotically protective of the lady of the couple who owns him, although given the woman's rudeness and big mouth, I am sure she can protect herself quite well; when the dog is with the man, he doesn't do anything, he barely even looks at me).

    I was very upset about the whole thing, and thought about why I am so upset.
    What I have found so far is that seeing and hearing a dog reminds me of how I am not at peace with this world, how I feel helpless about the problems of aging, illness and death, how I am troubled by not knowing which religion is the right or best one, and also, that it might just happen that the dog bites me anyway, no matter how much I chant or pray.



    Yes, but the thinking that accompanies the fear is probably different.


    The psychology and physiology of addiction are complex ...


    When I was about 6, and my cousin about 7, we were held hostage by a dog in the woods. We stood still, together, looking down, for what it felt like an hour, while the dog barked and growled at us. Externally, our reactions were the same, and I think we were both afraid. But my cousin isn't afraid of dogs and has had dogs, while I am afraid even of a bonsai dog.

    Such examples would support your statement.

    However, the question is how come some people experience something "emotionally" and some don't - ie. how come some people are shaken by an event, and others are not.

    For example, some children grow up in homes with domestic violence and alcoholism, but grow up to become good productive citizens, while some become dysfuncitonal like their parents.
    This suggests that what actually goes on in a family does not determine adult outcomes.
     
  13. answers Registered Senior Member

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    646
    Not sure if this has been mentioned.

    But modern research is pointing toward peer group influence as being one of the major factors determining adult personality, etc...

    50% is biological (as indicated by twin studies and adoption studies on personality, with children taking after the personalities of their biological parents instead of their adopted parents).

    But all this has to be taken with a grain of salt, because it's falling into the realm of the fundamental attribution error (saying a person's actions are due to the innate properties of that person, when in reality it's the situation).

    Don't forget the Milgram experiment, good people will kill someone else if put in the right situation.

    There has also been research that tested whether or not a bible college student would stop on the way to a sermon to help a hurt homeless man. And the factor that determined whether or not they would help, is how much time they had before the sermon.

    It's all about the situations we find ourselves in

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  14. keith1 Guest

    Getting off the merry-go-round may require many revolutions before achieving the skill.

    Having dogs around helps in the understanding of their "pack" behavior.

    Homes with domestic violence and alcoholism have many different aspects which make each case unique, so each outcome may be different.
     
  15. answers Registered Senior Member

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    "1) Early experience in itself does not determine later outcome and is not inherently more important to development than later or current experience;

    2) When trying to understand and deal with problems in adulthood, looking for explanations in the distant past is of little utility, because, even if found, these explanations are neither necessary nor sufficient to affect change in the present time"


    -------------------------------------------------------------

    I'd say this is true sometimes, but CERTAINLY NOT ALL THE TIME!!!!!

    Just look at Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD).

    92% experienced childhood neglect. 70% experienced childhood sexual abuse. 59% experienced childhood physical abuse.

    With BPD sufferers they have HUGE problem with relationships due to past childhood experiences.

    So it's all well and good to say: a lot of issues people are having today can't be traced back to childhood events, but it's just silly to try and say that all issues people are having today can't be traced back to childhood events.

    And as for these childhood events having no use in making a change in a sufferer of BPD that's just ridiculous.

    When a sufferer of BPD understands that they suffered neglect and relationship trauma as a child and instead of blaming the world they turned it inward and blamed themselves. And when they understand that this was useful when they were a child because a child can't deal with the fact that the world is a horrible place, and that it is easier to think that the child themselves has done something wrong. Then this can impact the sufferer of BPD in a great way. Now they can stop thinking there is something wrong with them that makes them unloveable, etc.... and then they can start trusting in a relationship again because they will realize that they are worthy of their partners love.

    So yes I disagree with the generalization of the OP.
     
  16. keith1 Guest

    I agree. One saying that deep seated personal issues and minor surface issues are similar in nature would be erroneous.
     
  17. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    15,058
    Why is this formulated like that?

    How come we don't say "BPD sufferers have big problems with relationships due to poor social skills"?



    But if then they look around, they will still see that the world is a horrible place. The abuse and neglect they have experienced as a child is not an exception, it is the norm, it is something common to humans, something that occurs regularly. They will still see that the world is a horrible place, and they will still not have any sufficient coping skills to deal with the horrors of aging, illness and death in their various forms.

    My biggest problem with Western psychology is that it tends to be romantic, telling patients that "the bad is in the past, an exception, but that on the whole, the world is good and right, and life is worth living" - and this is a lie.
     
  18. SilentLi89 Registered Senior Member

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    That's really really deep.

    I have an irrational fear of choking brought on by a previous experience that I had as a child. So I can't swallow large pills or anything whole. Everytime I attempt to do so I get scared and gag. But whenever I think about it all I get are memories of choking when I was 4, how frightened I was, how terrible the sensation of having an object lodged in your trachea was, and I never want to experience that again. It never goes any deeper than that.

    I'm curious as to how you pull up so many of your insecurities just from an encounter with a dog. Why would dogs remind you of all of that?
     
  19. answers Registered Senior Member

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    646


    "How come we don't say "BPD sufferers have big problems with relationships due to poor social skills"?"

    Because people with poor social skills don't have the characteristics of BPD. There's a big difference between poor social skills and a sufferer of BPD getting accute anxiety at the supermarket when their partner leaves for 1 min and then blowing up at them and screaming and yelling when they return. And considering that attachment type has been shown to develop in childhood, I would say that's why BPD sufferers aren't classified as suffering from poor social skills. Furthermore do you think it's poor social skills which cause 75% of sufferers of BPD to self harm? Or 80% to have had a least one attempt at suicide?


    "My biggest problem with Western psychology is that it tends to be romantic, telling patients that "the bad is in the past, an exception, but that on the whole, the world is good and right, and life is worth living" - and this is a lie."

    You can have a pessimistic view of the world, I don't really care. But the fact is that it IS NOT A NORM AND IT IS AN EXCEPTION for a group of people to have had the following in their past: 92% experienced childhood neglect. 70% experienced childhood sexual abuse. 59% experienced childhood physical abuse.

    If you look at the rates of childhood sexual abuse and physical abuse and neglect, they are not that high. It worries me that you think they are.


    I think it's amazing that you're trying to argue that childhood neglect, sexual abuse and physical abuse has nothing to do with a BPD sufferers condition. Are you saying that it's just a coincidence?
     
  20. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

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    its all my mom's fault..lol

    but seriously..

    the trauma we encounter as kids does make a difference in how we grow up as adults..now i am not saying we should blame our parents for our current situation, after all we make our own choices..but many ppl use their parents as an excuse for their shortcomings, maybe because they do not know how to overcome those excuses..maybe because that is the only way they know how to deal with any given situation...
    i do not believe in 'you can't teach an old dog new tricks'.
    but that also requires that the old dog be taught..


    i grew up blaming my mom for all my imperfections, and yes maybe she is responsible for some..(or all.) but that doesnt mean i shouldnt take responsibility for my own actions, i am 46 now and have had ppl come through my life that helped me to understand how to take responsibility for my own imperfections, some even helped me to overcome some of them..(those are few and far between)

    one thing that doesn't help though is i inherited her stubbornness..and her desire to be right all the time..(my sister is worse..little miss can't be wrong)
     
  21. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah I do have to agree that while your experiences during childhood don't determine for sure what problems you might have in future, some really do stay with you, even if you make the conscious choice to deal with them.

    I don't deal well with a group of people laughing at me. Unless of course I just deliberately did something stupid. It brings back memories of groups of kids laughing while someone pushed me down a hillside or spat in my face. Some boys were laughing at me in the supermarket for having red flame like symbols on my skirt and I just went insane. I just wanted to hear that youth's anus tear while I shoved a baseball bat in it.
     
  22. answers Registered Senior Member

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    As far as bullying goes, there is no doubt that it affects people as adults. Suicide rates are higher for adults with a history of childhood bullying. Something that may make you feel a little better to know, is that bullies have even higher rates of suicide as adults than the people they bullied.
     
  23. Gypsi Registered Senior Member

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    98
    One of the "coping skills" that people (in general) have is to limit their view to "the world they know" and do what they can to ensure that that world is not so horrible. And those separate worlds mean different "norms". So what may seem like a "difficult childhood" to a complainant in their world, may be laughed at as mere fluff by another. And what is "the norm" for the world in its entirety, is irrelevant with regard to a personal attempt at existence. "The norm" is relevant only as a point of reference within ourselves - the state in which we feel ourselves to be existing most successfully. For some, that may be dissociative identity disorder - the most successful existence possible, given "their world" - and for others, painting or pursuing a career. And all the degrees between and beyond.

    And beyond what any study may say, I believe we are inherently, instinctively aware of the impact of childhood experiences. Why else would parents - most parents - try to ensure that their child's world, and thus their norm, was good as it can be?
     

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