More black people jailed in England and Wales proportionally than in US

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/oct/11/black-prison-population-increase-england

What do you guys think of this? Is this caused by racism, or is not enough attention being paid to these minorities to prevent them from falling through the cracks?

 

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Have ethnic minorities committed a disproportional amount of the crime? Ethnic minorities are usually at the bottom end of the economic food chain, and hence have more incentive to commit crimes.

 

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I'm just shocked, I didn't realize racism is so bad in Europe.

 

Please show proof that this is the result of racism and not simply a result of one group committing more crimes than another group.

 

What do I think? Its obvious prisons are a failure, not just to a particular minority or racial group, prisons are a failure to begin with.

No it is not caused by racism, as some 50 years ago it was white Britons who were falling through the cracks.

 

It may be we need to double our efforts at assimilation and integration. We need to pull out the stops and don't be afraid to be politically incorrect. Address the issues seriously and determinedly (cultural classes, language support, education, etc...). African girls (as in from Africa) are extremely honest hard working and sincere. Girls are also much much better as assimilating new culture. The key is to support them with education and then reap the rewards WAY down the road.

 

It's not just skin color or eye shape it's all gender. It's men who occupy all these slots in prison. We need to do something to occupy young men's time (other than say war). Sports is a great investment. A job even better.

 

Assimilation? Integration? Who said Europeans want those people and groups to fully integrate their precious culture? It's true then Americans are very naive when it comes to 'Europe'.

I don't know much about on strictly black and white issues, but as a person who lived her life under the cross fire of European and American assimilation, I can comfortably say that racism and fascism are more common and radical among Europeans than Americans. I am not sayng this to casue an arguement. That's simply the truth.

The important point on this issue is usually overlooked by the rest of the world and actually it's a simple one. Europe has been and is so good at domestic and international 'politics'. They are just subtle, systematic and deep. Well, the old wolf!

If you're from an underdeveloped country and chose to have academic education, lets say to become a scientist, you go to the United States not to Europe. Because no matter how brilliant or genius you are, after your education, you can't get the position or the respect you deserve in Europe. Why? Because you are not an European. I am sure there would be a few exceptions as there is to every rule, but that's the case.

No matter how harsh I would criticise America in any other way, I've known dozens of people from completely different disciplines (being in an academic community myself) who chose Unites States and became very succesful, because they knew they would be recognised and get what they deserve there. These people, who had high academic education in Europe, also report that the academic environment is far more sexist than it is in America. I am not talking about one angry person who left the continent because of rejection. I am talking about hundreds of people who won scholarships and rights to recieve the best education in those countries. (A couple of them being from my family)

Now, we are talking about highly gifted people, can you imagine what would the avarage get as a treatment? And the group of people I am talking about is white.
Immigrants in Europe are 'accepted' and 'welcomed' as long as they know their place. They are expendable heavy workers for the jobs, which of course, the great Europeans clearly are not meant to do.

Actually this attitude is also strongly meant towards Americans. But hey, who is stupid enough to openly mock the big bully in the lunch line? Especially when you know he is also your shield against the rest of the canteen.

So the sociocultural foundations of this issue is much more complicated than the prison system, assimilation and integration of the 'foreigner'.

I personally think the 'Europeans' should also consider to assimilate and integrate themselves along with minorities and immigrants.

 

It isn't. There are a lot of cultural factors, but the crime stats aren't due to racism, in actual fact, they fuel it.

For instance, take Operation Trident, a unit focussed on gun crime committed amongst the black community. This is because of gangs, and drugs.

 

But if it's not racism, why are they jailed seven times more disproportionately, compared to the meager four that we see in the US? And beyond that, what can be done about it?

 

It's not racism. FFS, we _never_ had segregation in the UK. The US did. THAT was racism.

 

How do they define "black people" in the US? In Britain?

 

Topics like this arise very, very often today. And when they do, there's an endless supply of people who flap their jaws about the "causes" of the problem. Also, you can be assured that the racism card will be among the first - and most frequently cause listed.

However, very, very few politicians or so-called experts are actually brave enough (or smart enough!) to identify the single largest root cause of all because it's to personally and emotionally charged.

What is it? Simple: It's the breakdown of the family unit and it's total failure to teach the younger generation THE important things needed to do well in life. Things like honestly, personal integrity and responsibility, respect for authority, etc.

Left to their own, the kids quite naturally develop an instant self-gratification attitude (among other bad attributes). For example, "It will take me TOO long to work and save enough money to buy a car - so I'll just steal one. "

Welfare parents also teach their kids exactly how to play the system and so many of them never bother to try to learn a skill or trade. It's just too easy to sit back doing nothing and cash that check that automatically comes in the mail every month.

But it's highly unpopular for political leaders to take such a (dangerous) realistic stance. So the result is that nothing gets done and the situation continues to get worse... and worse... and worse...

 

Of course you haven't. Compared to US you are ancient. You were an 'empire'. You spent hundreds of years dealing with colonies remotely from an island. You had 'classes' and 'social places' for everyone very specificly defined far before America reached any position to have any smilar problems.

It's so old a situation, people can't even be aware of it. Because it's always been that way. It's the Western tradition.

And this whole subject is something Europe knows and accepts by the way.

Americans and English people have a conflicted relationship. This is difficult for me to understand sometimes. As my foreign language is English, I observed that the Americans I met have some weird admiration to English people and culture, which they persistantly call 'British' for some reason I don't get, but English people claim the two cultures are completely different and that they don't understand it fully. Yet you seem to get along well. :shrug:

 

But what's the cause of that? I guess the point shouldn't be why are blacks seven times disproportionately incarcerated, but rather, why are they disproportionately incarcerated at all--whether in the UK or US.

 

The part of my post you quoted explains that. Here's another hint - try finding a chart that shows the percentages of single-parent families based on race and ethnic groups, like Black, White and Asian. (I would look it up myself if I had time.) I believe you will discover that the big majority is Black. And since those single parents (many of them anyway) have to work, it leaves it up to the kids to teach themselves about life. And they naturally tend to become "street smart" rather than any other type of smart. And that's where the problems with the legal/penal system begin.

 

You should read Malcolm Gladwell's "Blink". Seriously, if you are interested in this you will LOVE the book. Everybody should read that book. It's a best seller so don't let this stop you.

 

The racial disparity in that, in the US, was a direct and easily observed consequence of racism - due to their marginal status, the blacks in the US have long been the first to feel the consequences of economic and social pressures or assaults.

No surprise if the same is true of Europe, with a somewhat different but still race-incorporating class system.

The US is set up on the notion that a certain amount of breakdown in the "family unit" is a good thing - that pulling the direct relations out of the tribal unit for economic reasons, the nuclear family out of the extended family for economic reasons, the older men out of the nuclear family for economic reasons, and finally the older women out of whatever is left for economic reasons, is a hierarchy of sound policy effects with no stopping level. That if the removal of economic benefit from the household and consequent economic breakdown of "family" is good in moderation, it is good in its "family unit" extreme. Blacks in the US started out near the bottom rung of that hierarchy, and were subjected to the most pressure afterwards.