What happens to American Politics if Healthcare Reform is Passed today?

This last year we have seen the healthcare industry in collaboration with the Republican Party create new political groups like the Tea Bag movement in order to support their agendas.

Despite a visicious campaign it appears the industry backed political movement is going to fail. The next question is what happens to the infrastructure, the political organizations like the Tea Bag Party?

I suspect that once the bill is implemented, funding for these organizations will dry up. Since it will clearly indicated that Democrats are in control of Washington and can deliver - even go against the most powerfu lobbies in Washington. That would indicate to me that donors would be giving a lot more to Democrats than to Republicans in 2010 since Dems would have clearly demonstrated their power in Washington.

I think this point is not lost in Republicans. This morning I watched an interview with Orin Hatch. It was rather pathetic. Hatch was saying well if you add these things into the bill the bill doesn't yeild the savings the Dems are touting.

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Yeah that may be true, but those things are not in the bill.

All of this new money flowing into Democrat coffers will present some challenges for the Dems as well. They must stay true to the American people while being drowned with special interest money.

This fall could be pretty tough for the Republicans as Democrats (if they pass healthcare reform today) will have clearly established that they are the force to be reconed with in Washington. I think Republican funding will quickly dry up and the Tea Bag Party will go the way of the Dodo bird for lack of funding and organization.

 

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It will be a few years before we really know the results of this bill if it passes.

We will still be in the land of wildly different claims about the health care bill will do next fall. For those few people who prefer facts to partisanship they will just have to wait longer than next fall and when the facts are available a few years from now they will have to find them on the internet because the media will be untrustworthy as usual due to laziness and underfunding and mostly useless.

If this bill passes, but the Senate does not repeal the insurance industry's antitrust exemption then wouldn't it be in the insurance industries interest to raise rates at a much faster rate than they have been? Currently raising premiums means losing customers. That won't be as true if this bill passes. Currently raising premiums makes people angry at the insurance industry but if this bill passes raising premiums will just make people mad at the democratic party and the left in general.

If global warming can be denied despite climatic data indicating global warming then the democrats and the left can be blamed for hire insurance rates despite evidence in quarterly reports of record insurance industry profits.

The State insurance regulators offer little or no protection from insurance industry abuse; the Republicans in congress offer no protection and the Democrats who made this corporate welfare bill version of insurance reform offer no protection and will probably lose their majority and even if the Senate repeals the insurance industry antitrust exemption there is no reason to believe that the Obama administration would prosecute the insurance industry for antitrust violations.

Obama is no Roosevelt; he is Bill Clinton part two minus the adultery.

 

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My question as not so much about the good or the bad of the actual healthcare reforms. But rather what does the Democrat passage of the Healthcare Reform do to American politcs?

I think it dramaticly shifts the balance of power to the Democrats. It firmly establishes that they can do some pretty remakable things in Washington...figthing and overcoming the most powerful lobbies on the hill is not small task. Many administrations before have failed to enact meaningful heatlhcare reform.

I expect Republicans to continue along in the current line. But I also expect that their funding will dry up. Those that rely on government for special deals don't care about political party so much as they care about what puts money in their pockets.

Since Republicans will have been effectively neutered by this process, there will be little incentive to spend money on Republicans to try to wield influence on Congress. That money I expect will be diverted to Democrats in the hopes that the donors will be able to buy similar influence with the Democrats. But traditionally, Democrats are a much more dificut buy for these folks.

 

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I don't think the corporate lobbies were overcome. I think Brer Rabbit Insurance lobby is succeeding at getting itself thrown in the briar patch. I expect this bill if passed to increase insurance company profits.

I think this bill passing is going to hurt the Democratic party. I know the majority of Democratic pundits thought that the Democratic party needed for this bill to pass but I think they just bought the pro passage spin.

I don't think the passage of the bill changes the political equation at all until the results of the bill affect the small handful of rational independent swing voters. Even I don't count in that group despite my being a person who voted for Obama and my opposing this bill. I am independent. I was a delegate to an irrelevant state Reform party convention. But I am not a swing voter. My contempt for the Republican party is too strong for me to be a swing voter.

I might vote for somebody like Ron Paul but otherwise I can't see myself ever voting for a Republican. I will never vote for Democrat Dianne Feinstein but that is because she and her husband are blatantly corrupt which is my core issue. In general I don't see myself voting against democrats because they voted for this Health care bill. Voting for the Wall Street bail outs was a far more serious transgression for me than voting for this health care bill.


If I represent anything I represent a small group of voters who were hopeful about Obama but have lost all hope in Obama. Limbaugh and the Teabaggers get no credit for knocking me out of the Obama coalition. Obama did that by compromising too much with corruption and by believing in Convention Washington wisdom. My group was lost to Obama prior to the health care bill and was further alienated by the corporate welfare in the health care bill. With my little group of .25% to 8% of voters the Democrats would fare better by voting this bill down and starting over.

I view this bill as being 50% corrupt corporate welfare and 50% income redistribution with various groups of winners and losers.

I believe that many middle class 30ish year old self employed Democrat voters who currently pay a high price for insurance will find their rates tripled by 2016 as they become forced to subsidize others and I don't expect these people to ever forgive the Democratic party.

But prior to 2016 we all just continue to believe whatever we believe. Most people who support this bill are not swing voters and most people who oppose this bill are also not swing voters. I can't see where the pundits get the idea that this bill changes the political landscape.

 

Nothing. it will still go on the way it has before, it might change say 20 years or so after health care reform past, sort of like how now even republicans are wary of talking about changing medicare or social security today but raise certain hell when it was about to be passed.

 

Arguably, this legislation is the only thing that can save the Democratic Party from swinging completely to the left, going into the land of European-based politics, compromising the uniqueness of our country, what distinguishes and sets it apart from the rest of the world. In this country, regulation is part of how we preserve the capitalist system. It is a special system of law that makes it possible for a free-market to exist and behave lawfully and fairly. What regulation is not is a system that is there to make it somehow harder to do business.

Regulation is there to make life easier for the honest businessman, and give him an edge over the kind of scam artist who would throw an anchor to a drowning man by saying, "you are too sick to have medicine." If we do away with the pre-existing conditions, small insurance companies whose executives want to move over to a more honorable way of doing business will be able to go forward with higher ideals instead of being at risk of sacrificing their ability to do business because of those ideals.

It is a myth that regulation is in there with socialism, with Marxism. A progressive, regulated free-market-based economy is the finest kind of economy in the world. It will put us ahead of the Europeans to do things in this way, not put us somehow more in line with them.

And I remind you that Barack Obama lost to Hillary Clinton, who would have taken us toward the left, toward socialized medicine, toward becoming a paltry imitation of the Europeans, only by a handful of votes, people! If Hillary Clinton were in office right now, we would not be talking about doing something with our economy that is uniquely American. We would not be creating a new system of regulations that will enable insurance companies to do business in a fair, honest and beneficial way.

If the Democrats fail to reform healthcare under Obama's leadership, though, they will ultimately abandon the idea of doing something about the problem that is uniquely American, for, by teaching them that they fail if they try to do something that is uniquely American, we will only teach them the way of following in the footsteps of Europe, picking up their scraps like beggers!

What the House Democrats are doing right now is saving the free-market and creating a way that we can prove that a well regulated free-market yields the finest kind of society that it is possible to have. Don't be fooled into believing that everything espoused by the Democrats is somehow "more European and less American."

Regulation is not a way for the government to take over. Rather, it is a way for the government to avoid having to take over!

 

The passage of this bill, and probably the continual stimulus that will be passed will lead to mass riots to a degree that We the People will get sick of the government which will force the elected state officials to start using Nullification of most of Federal Government's laws that overreach State Rights in order for those politicians to remain in office- causing a rift between the Federal Government and the People, leading up to a Revolution.

This is possible thanks to the miserable financial hell that the Government has created by screwing this economy...

We will enter unprecedented times- Government is taking too many liabilities, and Healthcare is one big one which will help screw this economy even more by furthering our debt financed consumption.

I'll get treated for my pre-conditions and then move on-

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Peace be unto you

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I'm still wondering where the money for the co-pay is going to come from.

Taxes? Medicare?

Thats the most likely scenario.

 

Both SAM.

All government statistics are bs, in my opinion. This thing is going to cost unlimited amount of money- People will make sure it does!

Peace be unto you

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They could also increase taxation on their corporate buddies but somehow I doubt that will happen.

I think this ship has come in too late. And will be very very costly to keep afloat.

 

What does it have to do with you, S.A.M.? You don't even live here. You moved out of the US after a six-year stint, and you look back generalizing Americans as "stupid," even though your own country suffers from the most despicable degree of social stratification the world has ever known. You may not practice the caste system there anymore, but it lives on in a rigidly classist society the like of which has been all but abandoned in the UK, at least in the old extremes. Have you even looked up your literacy rate?

Seriously, S.A.M., based on where you come from, which is still one of the most dysfunctional countries in the world whether you like it or not, how do you come off trying to lecture US on how we run our system? I have heard quite enough disrespect out of you, toward my country, to make me ill.

If you had a record of being respectful toward the US and people from here, that would be one thing, but this is quite the opposite of what I remember hearing out of you in past discussions. Don't try to tell us how to run our country until you can figure out how to run your own.

 

Taxes won't do anything really... It'll work for a few years and then it won't... When this economy crashes, this whole thing will repeal itself because no one will be able to afford these taxations- we'll enter Revolution time by then.

This healthcare stuff is too late, if it happened when we were the Creditor Nation it would've worked but now that we're the worlds greatest Debtor Nation- we're screwed.

I'm going to leave after getting treated for my pre-conditions lol

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Peace be unto you

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the way this bill apears (and no i havent read it in detail, been more interested in the SA state elections) all this will do is make more money for the private insurance companies and possably increase unwanted pregancies including from rape, psycologically hurting males and females and possably putting womens health on the line which is a bloody joke. what a massive missed opitunity to bring the US up to the world standed from a HCS which even some third world countries can beat

 

Mod Notes: Alien, this is a PUBLIC forum. SAM is free to debate anything she wishes, including American domestic policy. Her love/hate relationship is not an issue so long as she--or any member--participates in good faith

 

lol Asguard.... Both Rep and Dem have drained this country like Vampires.

Peace be unto

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Political parties are irrelevant: power corrupts, that is the core problem with all politicians.

die horribly

 

Its the public's fault for keeping career politicians....

Peace be unto you

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If Healthcare is a right, so is food and shelter..... Next we will have a vote to give everyone a house and free food..

I should just be a bum and let the government provide me all my 'rights'...

Peace be unto you

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There is no free market in medical care, and there never will be.

 

Free market is no where- and there can't be as long as the government desires power- which is always so yes there will never be a free market.

Peace be unto you

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