Obama Cutting Military Pay Increase

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Thoreau, Mar 5, 2010.

  1. Thoreau Valued Senior Member

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    http://www.armytimes.com/news/2010/01/military_2011_budget_012610w/

    President Obama has proposed a 1.4% pay increase for active duty military in 2011. This is THE LOWEST SINCE 1973! Nice to know that during a time of rampant inflation, while war is fought in 2 theatres, our men and women in uniform get A LOWER PAY INCREASE THAN WELFARE RECIPIENTS!!!
     
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  3. Cowboy My Aim Is True Valued Senior Member

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    If the soldiers want as big a pay raise as the welfare recipients, they need to starting voting for Democrats more often!

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    Remember that a lot of politicians probably value a vote more than someone's military service, anyway.
     
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  5. kororoti Registered Senior Member

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    That's probably what motivated GWB to go to war in the first place. He'd get iron clad support from the military.

    Obama is faced with an interesting problem. If he backs up the soldiers too much, they'll just say he's pandering. If he screws them over, that's political suicide, because even the dems want the soldiers to be taken care of.
     
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  7. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    Um welfare payments are a reflection of poverty rates. the fact that the cost of living went up is why. secondly while the pay, an INCREASE not a cut but merely a smaller increase, is offset by an increase in the ability to give medical care. but your right I suppose it would be better to give them more cash and continue the republican walter reed level of care.


    also welfare payments are determined by the states so your comparison lacks some honesty. also there are places that haven't had welfare increases in years so a larger percentage increase in not unwarrented.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2010
  8. Pinwheel Banned Banned

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    USA has rampant inflation now?
     
  9. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    A couple of minor details, not that they will matter to you since you seem bent on exercising the Republican/conservative agenda of spreading fear, deception, and lies as per the recently revealed GOP documents.

    First, Obama is not proposing cutting military salaries. He is proposing limiting next years pay by a half percent. That is not much and that half percent is taxable. So the net net difference in take home pay for military personnel is meaningless. Let me also remind you that Obama gave the military a very generous pay increase this year...in excess of the norm.

    Obama is also proposing increasing the military housing allowance by 4.2%. This allowance by the way is not taxable. So what would I rather have if I were in the military, hands down I would want the housing allowance increase of 4.2 percent.

    And finally where are you seeing inflation? We have been in a deflationary period. That is why Social Security recepients are not getting a pay raise this year. The forecasted inflation rate for 2010 is between 1.4% and 1.8%. So how do you figure a 1.4 percent pay increase is a pay cut? How do you figure 1.8% inflation rate is rampant inflation?
    http://www.forecast-chart.com/forecast-inflation-rate.html

    The January inflation rate was .2 percent.
    http://www.bls.gov/cpi/#news

    Additionally, Welfare is controlled and administered by state government not federal government.

    I suggest you try to be less reactionary and more reasoned.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2010
  10. jeram Registered Member

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    3
    WOW...

    Let me say that I am a conservative. I am also a military wife. When I read about the small increase I decided to do some research and came upon this thread. Obviously some of you are misinformed and in one case (Alien Cockroach) probably need some professional help.

    The payraise that you said that Obama just generously gave us was a bit of an overstatement. The military pay rates are far below the civilian sector. Obama proposed a raise of either 2.3 or 2.9 percent. Congress overrode him and gave us a 3.4 (i believe) percent increase. Basically it goes down like haggling.

    Many go into the military for an education and training. My husband is currently making 36K before taxes. If he were to go into the private sector (basically working with the military but as a civilian) doing his current job, he would be making between 80-100K, depending on location. We're almost to the halfway point to retirement (20 years). So I'm sure you're asking, why not just get out? At twenty years we will have full benefits and retirement pay for the rest of his life. Like any other pension, he will have earned that. Then he'll go into the private sector, and at that point, make A LOT MORE MONEY.

    I don't think it's unfair for people in the military, which includes the families, to feel like they've been given the shaft. These people are working LONG hours, away from their families for long periods of time (sometimes more than a year), in dangerous areas where people have hobbies (like building bombs and shooting at you). Depending on the area you're living (San Diego, Hawaii, etc.), it is INCREDIBLY hard to make ends meet on a military salary. Even on things like WIC. There has even been talk of having the family's pay to relocate overseas, which is incredibly expensive by the time you pay for passports, work visas for the spouse, plane tickets, etc.

    Alien Cockroach... this part is specifically for you... you sound like a 40 year old paranoid schziophrenic living in his overbearing mother's basement. You use big words I don't think you understand. You say that conservatives are parasites and mere beneficiaries of this civilization... How exactly have you done ANYTHING to contribute this civilization or even just your community? How insane do you think you sound talking about going to war and using brute force against people because you disagree with another's point of view? Are you a Nazi now? Because you're sounding like you have a final solution.

    (A bit from his tangent for those who didn't see)

    "You savages really are all the same, and I would gladly join a movement to declare war on you. You are savages, and we should have you exterminated.

    I implore my people to realize that conservatives are not the kinds of people who can be reasoned with. The only possible means of dealing with them is brute force. It is absolutely impossible to negotiate with a savage on civilized terms."
     
  11. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    We are not currently experiencing anything like "rampant inflation." Inflation is currently very low, which is what you expect in a weak economy.

    Meanwhile, most workers in the private sector would be happy to get a 1.4% pay raise. I haven't gotten anything close to that in years. For those of us in the private sector, "not getting laid off" is the most that's hoped for these days.
     
  12. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Just a few things you might want to consider. First, a half percent is not substancial or even signficant after tax. Additionally, military salaries have always been low especially for junior enlisted folks. Once you get out of the junior enlisted ranks pay gets much better.

    Additionally the military has something called speciality pay for specialities like doctors and nurses to make compensation more in line with civilian pay.

    Two, military benefits are very generous compared to civilian benefits. Most of us outside the military have to make generous payments to insurance companies every month for our health insurance. Additionally, pensions in private industry are a thing of the past. So when you add in the benefit value, the value of a pension at 20 years, the difference between military compensation and private industry compensation narrows considerably.

    Now I was in the Navy and currently have a son and nephew on active duty. I work just as long in civilian life as I worked in military life. So long hard hours are not limited to the military nor is stress limited exclusively to the military. Civlians and military both face the issues of stress daily.
     
  13. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    I agree, people in the Military are risking their lives, and they hardly get paid anything.
     
  14. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Mega dittos. Some are even loosing wages, City Employees of San Franciso took a 6 percent wage cut today.
     
  15. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    I'm considerably anti-war and therefore anti-military, so I think there ought to be salary cuts instead of increases.
     
  16. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    public and not for profit sectors always pay lower than the private sector. Just look at the PM's salery (350,000) when compared to a CEOs (8+MILLION). In australia, of all the public and not for profit sector employees (including police, emergency services, doctors ect) the millatry is probably the highest in comparision to eqivlant private sector work. The amusing thing about jeram's post is the contradiction. Conservative (ie surposedly surports really low tax and surports bush's tax cuts) and a public sector employee. Where exactly do you think the money actually COMES from?
     
  17. PieAreSquared Woo is resistant to reason Registered Senior Member

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    people going into the military are unaware of the pay scale?

    this is something new?
     
  18. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    Actually you're wrong, Asguard. Public workers are paid more than private sector workers (and it's wrong and unfair, too).

    http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2010/03/05/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry6270781.shtml
     
  19. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    23,049
  20. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    Yes......and it shows that I'm right: many federal employees are being paid more than their private counterparts.
     
  21. WillNever Valued Senior Member

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    Agreed. Death and destruction are not noble concepts, regardless of the reasons used to substantiate them. My suggestion to everyone, regardless of who they are, is to stop feeding from the public trough if they have high expectations of accumulating wealth.
     
  22. jeram Registered Member

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    LOL. Trust me, I know my husband will never get wealthy working for the government.

    joepistole - My father was actually a navy doctor. He joined enlisted, got his degree, went to med school and worked his way up to commander. The specialty pay was still no where near to what he made when he got out. My sister and b-i-l are both active duty linguists in the navy and get specialty pay. My husband does crypto. In all above mentioned fields, the private sector pays much more.

    Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not complaining. The military provided my father, sister, b-i-l, and my husband with opportunities, training and an education. The benefits are fantastic- as they should be.

    I'm also not saying that the military has monopoly on high stress and long hours.

    To be perfectly frank I didn't realize that pensions were a thing of the past- as you can see I come from a military background going back several generations. It is a pity, because it's part of staying at your job and loyal to your company or whatever. It was an incentive and safety net. You always had some money coming in.

    I did work and have to pay in for health care. It sucks. A huge reason it sucks is because we desperately need tort reform. People sue over EVERYTHING, regardless of whether the doctor is at fault or not. Don't get me wrong- if the doctor screwed up then have at it. But you can't get 20 million dollars because you had to get a bloodpatch because you had a spinal that gave you a headache. That's stupid and completely over the top and beyond frivilious. The doctor gets sued, the money comes out of the insurance. The insurance rates go through the roof. Doctors can't afford to practice medicine (take a look at the state of Nevada- specifically OB-GYNS- women had to go to CA, AZ and UT to see doctors). Insurances start to dictate to doctors how to do their jobs. They raise their rates while not covering nearly as much. All the while the insurance companies are getting richer and lawyers even more so because they're taking a 1/3-1/2 of the settlements.

    I think our country needs to remember that our civil servants, like the military do take care of us. And we need to take care of them. We need to crack down on fraud- namely welfare, medicaid/medicare, social security, disability, etc. Tax evasion- that's another biggie. Congressmen (and women) need to be audited every single year. They are paid handsomely and have an amazing benefits package and have a pension for the rest of their lives regardless of how long they serve... Unfortunately, many of them think that taxes don't apply to them. Also- let's take a hard look at unions. I'm not anti-union, but when the union stops working for the people paying into them and just starts looking out for itself- well it's time to clean house.

    Basically I'm saying we could afford to take care of our people if we just act responsibily. The workers in CA or anywhere else wouldn't have to take a pay cut.
     
  23. desi Valued Senior Member

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    1,616
    Maybe if the soldiers actually started to win the wars we have against 3rd world nations they would deserve a pay raise. I think we should pay them what the average Taliban soldier got paid until they win the wars. That might give them some incentive.
     

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