as many of you will know the law of conservation of mass i will not bother explaining it.
well i dont know if some of you know that some scientists have proved this wrong,they have discovered 93m by 84 meters of something called antimatter which is formed when atoms are fired at each other at a certain speed they create or destroy atoms, every square mm of this stuff can power new york for a week

But can they control it?

Baron Max

There is no such thing as the convervation of mass or the conservation of matter. It is instead the conservation of mass/energy. This was shown through General Relativity's equality of energy and matter. In any reaction where mass is not conserved there will be a release or input of energy. In any reaction where energy is lost, there was matter created. The two are interchangable.

-AntonK

the two ARE interchangeable,but there IS an energy loss or energy gain depending on which way your going.

thats the tricky part.

It's a heck of a lot more complicated than that. And I have no idea where you got your mathematical coordinates from to even attempt to explain it in such simple terms?

"Antimatter is matter that is composed of the antiparticles of those that constitute normal matter. If a particle and its antiparticle come in contact with each other, the two annihilate and produce a burst of energy, which results in the production of other particles and antiparticles or electromagnetic radiation. In these reactions, rest mass is not conserved, although (as in any other reaction) energy (E=mc²) is conserved."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimatter

"The details depend on the amount and type of matter in the universe. The three possible types are known as cold dark matter, hot dark matter, and baryonic matter. The best measurements available (from WMAP) show that the dominant form of matter in the universe is cold dark matter. The other two types of matter make up less than 20% of the matter in the universe."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_bang

But can they control it?

Baron Max

the scientists have had to suspend it ib midair, if it comes into contact with any heat energy it combusts :eek:

the scientists have had to suspend it ib midair, if it comes into contact with any heat energy it combusts :eek:

No, that's incorrect. If it comes contact with normal matter
both will be completely destroyed. Heat will not affect antimatter any more than it does normal matter.

You might also be interested to know that so far they've only managed to produce a few milligrams of antimatter. And that's not all at once - that's the total ever made all added together. It was done at CERN and Fermilab.

Yep, they've made antimatter on earth already.
Creates good energy to study particles.

Antimatter is a big joke.

Positrons ( just another word for antimatter ) are naturally produced in a number of radioactive decay nuclear reactions. These reactions are assumed to happen throughout the entire universe.

They are also produced in many types of particle accelerator events, such as the aforementioned Cern experiments.

They are also produced in pair production. A well known method is to direct gamma photons to strike upon a target of heavy atoms such as lead foil. Pairs of electrons and positrons are the products of this activity.

Usually when an electron and a positron are permitted, or, caused, to combine, or, annihilate, two gamma photons are produced, although three or more are theoretically possible and are sometimes observed. It is not known for annihilation to produce massive particles directly, only gamma photons.

Also, antimatter, in the form of anti-neutrinos, is considered to be produced in many different forms of nuclear reactions.

Medical science uses, many times every day, the manipulated production of positrons in Positron Emission Tomography, a form of scanning, which enables doctors to examine the internal structure of a patient's body.

NO JOKE.

Antimatter is a big joke.

What are you even doing in this thread, C7? You obviously know nothing about atomic physics. Antimatter is no joke, it's very real. I'm afraid it's you are the joke. On second thought, you actually should hang around this thread - just don't say anything - read and learn!

Personally, I believe some sort of anti-matter power system will eventually replace all other sources, but right now, our species just doesn't need that much power. If we ever manage to get fusion producing more power than it requires, we'll have plenty of energy to spare.

What are you even doing in this thread, C7?

I don't know.

You obviously know nothing about atomic physics. Antimatter is no joke, it's very real.

Ahahahahhahaa! Well, in a sense, "it" does exist, but it shouldn't be called anti-matter. Anti-matter was invented by physicists to maintain the coherence of their theories, in order to ensure the balance of the mass of the universe. But if you know that the atom is magnetic, there is no need to invent anything hypothetical to make theories consistent.

"Matter" contains its own counterpart, since it constitutes, within itself, the opposition of two principles. "Anti-matter" is within "matter" itself.

I'm afraid it's you are the joke.

Don't be afraid :)

On second thought, you actually should hang around this thread - just don't say anything - read and learn!

Thanks for the suggestion, which I were already aware of, but it is impossible for me to be silent.

Antimatter is just one of the many alternative forms of matter that we know of (see above). The word "antimatter" is just a name that seems to attract scifi attention because of its opposite physical properties to matter. In any case, we still have not been able to account for all the forms of matter that are in the universe: to account for the visual gravitational attractions that we see in the universe.

Personally, I believe some sort of anti-matter power system will eventually replace all other sources

Surely not. Antimatter will never be a power source because you have to use energy to make it in the first place. At best I think it will provide a lovely, energy-dense method of bottling up and storing solar energy.

Unless accumulations of ready-made antimatter exist in some corner of the universe, that is.

Ahahahahhahaa! Well, in a sense, "it" does exist, but it shouldn't be called anti-matter. Anti-matter was invented by physicists to maintain the coherence of their theories, in order to ensure the balance of the mass of the universe. But if you know that the atom is magnetic, there is no need to invent anything hypothetical to make theories consistent.This is not true. Antimatter was first theorized about in 1928 when it was realized that the Dirac Equation (which predicted the properties of electrons by combining quantum physics and relativity) had two possible sets of solutions. One set of solutions described ordinary electrons. The other, equally valid solution described a particle that is very similar to ordinary electrons,but with opposite (positive) charges. Four years later these particles were actually observed.

Before antimatter was actually discovered, it was possible that the second set of solutions was merely a mathematical curiosity that didn’t actually correspond to anything in nature.

The other, equally valid solution described a particle that is very similar to ordinary electrons,but with opposite (positive) charges.

Electrons are not "negative". All particles have two magnetic poles. Protons, neutrons, electrons, are all the same particles, just under different circumstances.

There is really no reason for this conversation to continue with c7ityi. He continues to assert ideas without any kind of backup evidence, citations or even reason. Please, explain to us these ideas, and why you believe them over conventional theories and models?

-AntonK

The word antimatter is not really a term that describes a specific type of matter: it's more of a generalizeable concept that applies to all matter. Antimatter is a hypothetical form of matter that is identical to physical matter except that it is composed of the "anti" particles of that form of matter (antielectrons, antiprotons, antineutrons, antielements, antihydrogen, antiparticles, antiquarks, antikaons, etc.), but they are a much more ellusive form of matter and harder to come upon.

"For every matter particle, there is a corresponding antiparticle — these antiparticles collectively are what we know as antimatter. They have properties that are similar but opposite to their corresponding matter particles — for example the same mass and the same magnitude but opposite sign of charge. When a particle and its antiparticle meet, they annihilate....A positron is the antiparticle of the electron....[also]Positronium is when a positron and an electron are bound together. In a normal atom, there is a heavy nucleus with a positive charge, with electrons orbiting around it. In the case of positronium, the positive nucleus is replaced by the positive positron. Essentially it is an exotic type of atom....When an antiparticle meets its corresponding particle, the mass is converted into energy, and sometimes other particles. In the case of a positron and electron annihilating, the energy is carried by gamma rays"
http://www.positron.edu.au/faq.html

"Our visible Universe is almost entirely composed of matter, and very little antimatter has existed since the Big Bang in which the Universe was born. When an antiparticle meets its particle counterpart (for example, when a positron meets an electron), they annihilate, converting all of their rest mass into energy in line with Einstein's equation E=mc^2. Antiparticles can be made out of energy in the reverse of this process, but only if a particle counter part for every antiparticle is produced as well. This happens naturally in high-energy processes involving cosmic rays, and also in high-energy experiments in accelerators on Earth. Because the world is overwhelmingly made of matter, however, any antiparticle produced in this way soon meets up with a particle counterpart and annihilates."
http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/211.fall2000.web.projects/A%20Mourant/antimatter.htm

"Scientists in 1995 succeeded in producing antiatoms of hydrogen, and also antideuteron nuclei, made out of an antiproton and an antineutron, but no antiatom more complex than antideuterium has been created yet. In principle, antiatoms of any element could be built from readily available sources of antiparticles. Such antiatoms would have exactly the same properties as their normal-matter counterparts. The production of antielements in bulk quantities seems unlikely to ever become achievable, however."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimatter

[...] some scientists have proved this wrong,they have discovered 93m by 84 meters of something called antimatter which is formed when atoms are fired at each other at a certain speed they create or destroy atoms
Aside from describing a two-dimensional surface and not a volume ;) there has never been that much antimatter produced on Earth. I believe someone on this thread said a few milligrams is what's been done, and that sounds about right.

Its insane how very little people know about antimatter... :eek:
I'm not dissing the people in this thread, I understand this forum is for learning, but I sure am...impressed by how different it all his from my own life experience.

What's all that nonsense about particles having magnetic poles, and them being "all the same thing in different guises"?

If people have difficulty understanding the very concept of antimatter, do they even have a chance to understand supersymmetric particles? Kaluza-Klein structures as replacements for point-particles? Our universe as having more than 3 spatial dimensions? What about rolled-up spatial dimsenions?

Aside from describing a two-dimensional surface and not a volume there has never been that much antimatter produced on Earth. I believe someone on this thread said a few milligrams is what's been done, and that sounds about right.

Its insane how very little people know about antimatter... :eek:
I'm not dissing the people in this thread, I understand this forum is for learning, but I sure am...impressed by how different it all his from my own life experience.

What's all that nonsense about particles having magnetic poles, and them being "all the same thing in different guises"?

If people have difficulty understanding the very concept of antimatter, do they even have a chance to understand supersymmetric particles? Kaluza-Klein structures as replacements for point-particles? Our universe as having more than 3 spatial dimensions? What about rolled-up spatial dimsenions?

Don't be too tough on that first guy, he's only 12 and hasn't quite gotten a grip on area vs volume. ;) Nor just how much a given quantity of something really is. Just a give him some time - he looks to be more promising in the long run than many of the "adults" here. :D

That nonsense about particles being all the same came from the C7 guy - one of our local nonsense-mongers.

I was the one that mentioned the milligrams - total. That information came to me by way of two fellows I went to school with that work at Fermilab. They (Fermilab) also stay in close contact with CERN where the majority of it was produced.

You'll discover that the forums are populated by a very large number of youngsters who haven't had time to learn anything yet - but true to form, think they already know everything - and many older people who are simply under-educated but just want to talk anyway. The actual number of intelligent, educated and mature people here (discounting a few paranoids, too) probably hovers around 20 or 25 at the most.

Please, explain to us these ideas, and why you believe them over conventional theories and models?
At first, I didn't know why. Some things sounded perfectly right while others sounded completely wrong. It is because I remember the reality I once knew. When you have known something and forgotten it, you will still remember it if you encounter it. It is wrong to believe everything you read in books. People should think for themselves. I don't know.

That was a nice assessment of what I've gleaned by now, Light. :)

I did not suspect the youngsters' part though, because in my own engrained experience kids are not interested in this stuff, and do not know what forums are....yes, you've unmasked me! : with my 26 years of age I am old enough to remember a time were kids smoked cigarettes to freak out their parents instead of going to forums and passing themselves off as horny adults... :p

Ahhh, the good ol' times...

Mmm, you know what guys? I suspect c7ityi_ is not even talking to us half the time but rather is quoting from obscure books on meditation and reincarnation...

It is because I remember the reality I once knew. When you have known something and forgotten it, you will still remember it if you encounter it.Thanks, Socrates :rolleyes:

I've met others like C7ityi_ and their ideas always intrigue me. Of course, not because the ideas have any merit in themselves, but because I truly want to understand WHY they believe what they believe. I think if we could understand it (assuming he's not just a jokester) then perhaps we could learn how to turn more people OFF to pseudoscience and the like.

-AntonK

Absolutely! Antimatter is extremely hard to come by because as soon as it encounters its counterpart "matter," it is inhilated into energy. Antimatter is rare. What's this about particles having "magnetic poles"???

The biggest dilemma physics gives us: the universe cannot exist because it does not have the antimatter it needs to exist. And if it did find its antimatter it would not-exist even better – because one would annihilate the other and leave no universe and its matter.
And this biggest dilemma is just the first of endless others that we need for this universe of ours to be “real.”

UV-gap

The biggest dilemma physics gives us: the universe cannot exist because it does not have the antimatter it needs to exist. And if it did find its antimatter it would not-exist even better – because one would annihilate the other and leave no universe and its matter.
And this biggest dilemma is just the first of endless others that we need for this universe of ours to be “real.”

UV-gap

Those are some pretty vague and almost meaningless statements. Do you have ANY references to substantiate them or is it something that you've come up with just on your own?

...
That nonsense about particles being all the same came from the C7 guy - one of our local nonsense-mongers.


Let me get it straight: when stars collapse from the force of "gravity" they do not form "neutron" stars. IN OTHER WORDS everything in planets and stars -- atoms, molecules, metals and non-metals -- are not made up of the just ONE thing: "neutrons."

Where did my physics degree go wrong?

And how does this force of gravity collapse stars and at the same time expand the universe ... perhaps even faster than the impossible speed of light that does not have the time to speed and yet it makes everything else, with time, stationary.

Please give me your wisdom so I won't have to be your nonsense monger.
UV-gap

Let me get it straight: when stars collapse from the force of "gravity" they do not form "neutron" stars. IN OTHER WORDS everything in planets and stars -- atoms, molecules, metals and non-metals -- are not made up of the just ONE thing: "neutrons."

Where did my physics degree go wrong?

And how does this force of gravity collapse stars and at the same time expand the universe ... perhaps even faster than the impossible speed of light that does not have the time to speed and yet it makes everything else, with time, stationary.

Please give me your wisdom so I won't have to be your nonsense monger.
UV-gap

I was talking specifically about this statement of yours: "The biggest dilemma physics gives us: the universe cannot exist because it does not have the antimatter it needs to exist. "

Where, in the process of getting your degree, did you "learn" this bit of wisdom?????

Those are some pretty vague and almost meaningless statements. Do you have ANY references to substantiate them or is it something that you've come up with just on your own?

I gave up on all the BS called religion and the racket called medicine decades ago. (I'm an x MD + specialist) So I went back to my love of Quantum Mechanics and Relativity to study it all over again. The BS got far worse than anything religions and the medical racket fed me.
When I finaly threw the towel in to accpet that BS is BS regardless of religions or science I WAS FREE.
Now I just Laugh as I do what I am going to do, anyway, regardless of what my mind thinks it thinks.

I was talking specifically about this statement of yours: "The biggest dilemma physics gives us: the universe cannot exist because it does not have the antimatter it needs to exist. "

Where, in the process of getting your degree, did you "learn" this bit of wisdom?????

You obviously do not know the most basic concepts of Modern Physics: that matter cannot exist without antimatter. That a particle always has to be a wave.... etc
I also suppose that you never knew that light does the impossible: travel even though it has no time. I MEAN FUCK --this is Relativity 101.

I think yuo'd better keep taking your pills.
Your screed about antimatter and such sounds like a distorted version of the cosmologists ideas about the early universe consisting of both matter and anti-matter, and there being slight differences in the proportions of each and their behaviour in the time after the big bang. End result? We have more matter than anti-matter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-matter

You'll discover that the forums are populated by a very large number of youngsters who haven't had time to learn anything yet - but true to form, think they already know everything - and many older people who are simply under-educated but just want to talk anyway. The actual number of intelligent, educated and mature people here (discounting a few paranoids, too) probably hovers around 20 or 25 at the most.
Ahhh, you're so right. Mind you, I've just seen some people get their knickers in a twist over on a forum where 99% of the posters are intelligent, educated and mature, so I guess people are always somewhat confused and childish. They just get good at hiding it.

You obviously do not know the most basic concepts of Modern Physics: that matter cannot exist without antimatter. That a particle always has to be a wave.... etc
I also suppose that you never knew that light does the impossible: travel even though it has no time. I MEAN FUCK --this is Relativity 101.

It would appear that I know more about it than you do. Perhaps you should go back and reaudit a class or two?

If you want your statement to be accepted, provide something tangible to back it up. (The most recent theories hold that there were near-equal amounts of matter/antimatter formed from the big bang with slightly more matter - and it is that "extra" matter that constitutes our universe.)

Sometimes these forums get me really disgusted with life. Really. They start out with a simple seemingly innocent question and then end up in rival tit-for-tat hate bickering.as many of you will know the law of conservation of mass i will not bother explaining it.
well i dont know if some of you know that some scientists have proved this wrong,they have discovered 93m by 84 meters of something called antimatter which is formed when atoms are fired at each other at a certain speed they create or destroy atoms, every square mm of this stuff can power new york for a weekYes, please "bother" explaining your post. Cite your sources. This initial post and this whole forum is far too ambiguous. Tell us what this "93m by 84 meters" antimatter is that you are talking about and where you heard of it. Thank you.

You obviously do not know the most basic concepts of Modern Physics: that matter cannot exist without antimatter. That a particle always has to be a wave.... etc
I also suppose that you never knew that light does the impossible: travel even though it has no time. I MEAN FUCK --this is Relativity 101.

You're a moron.

You're a moron.

True! And note this quote from one of his earlier posts, "Where did my physics degree go wrong?" in which he implies that he actually has a degree in physics!!

What a fraud. I've also noticed lately that he may have even stopped posting. If that's true, it's a good thing. :)

What a fraud. I've also noticed lately that he may have even stopped posting. If that's true, it's a good thing. :)

Are you trying to say that he's a worthless human being who deserves to suffer, only because you don't agree with him?

Are you trying to say that he's a worthless human being who deserves to suffer, only because you don't agree with him?

Not in the least. I see no problem with him as a person. But there is a clear problem when he claims to have a degree in physics and then states things that physics has shown to be untrue (many times over).

It isn't ME that disagrees with him. He's arguing against facts that disagree with him.

And I don't see him "suffering." What ever gave you that idea? He just want to complain about things that he says he understands when in fact he has little understanding. That's a pretty common thing here, lots of people are doing that and I don't see them suffering, either.

I've met others like C7ityi_ and their ideas always intrigue me. Of course, not because the ideas have any merit in themselves, but because I truly want to understand WHY they believe what they believe. I think if we could understand it (assuming he's not just a jokester) then perhaps we could learn how to turn more people OFF to pseudoscience and the like.

-AntonK

That's the primary reason I hang around the religion section of the forum and I've actually made alot headway in understanding it.

I also suppose that you never knew that light does the impossible: travel even though it has no time. I MEAN FUCK --this is Relativity 101.

I am actually surprised by the assertion as it's true. Light does travel through space and not time (which sounds really weird when we talk about distance in terms of time... like a lightyear).

...antimatter... every square mm of this stuff can power new york for a week

A square mm of matter or antimatter could power just about any city for a week provided it could be fully converted into energy. Slam a sugar cube into an anti sugar cube and the energy release is 100% efficient and would power the U.S. for a week.

All ways people have discovered to make antimatter takes more energy to create than would actually be released when introducing it to a corresponding amount of matter.

I am actually surprised by the assertion as it's true. Light does travel through space and not time (which sounds really weird when we talk about distance in terms of time... like a lightyear).Read all of the above posts, including the initial one, before you reply: "some of you know that some scientists have proved this wrong,they have discovered 93m by 84 meters of something called antimatter" from the Non-Logical-Idea-Guy. We are waiting for him to explain: he has yet to reply.

Locked!

Read all of the above posts, including the initial one, before you reply: "some of you know that some scientists have proved this wrong,they have discovered 93m by 84 meters of something called antimatter" from the Non-Logical-Idea-Guy. We are waiting for him to explain: he has yet to reply.

Locked!

I don't understand what's being stated here Valich. Can it be re-written a little more clearly?

I am asking Non-Logical-Idea-Guy to explain this thread and his initial post that states:

"as many of you will know the law of conservation of mass i will not bother explaining it. well i dont know if some of you know that some scientists have proved this wrong,they have discovered 93m by 84 meters of something called antimatter which is formed when atoms are fired at each other at a certain speed they create or destroy atoms, every square mm of this stuff can power new york for a week"

He has yet to respond. What is this 93m by 84 meter something called antimatter?

He states "I will not bother to explain." I ask, "Please do bother to explain."

I ask this because he then says "some scientists have proved this wrong." This demands an explanation as to what he is talking about."

I am asking Non-Logical-Idea-Guy to explain this thread and his initial post that states:

"as many of you will know the law of conservation of mass i will not bother explaining it. well i dont know if some of you know that some scientists have proved this wrong,they have discovered 93m by 84 meters of something called antimatter which is formed when atoms are fired at each other at a certain speed they create or destroy atoms, every square mm of this stuff can power new york for a week"

He has yet to respond. What is this 93m by 84 meter something called antimatter?

He states "I will not bother to explain." I ask, "Please do bother to explain."

I ask this because he then says "some scientists have proved this wrong." This demands an explanation as to what he is talking about."

Easy, Valich. Remember he's just 12 years old - which is certainly to young to be expected to have adult-level knowledge of everthing. He's just starting out.

I am asking Non-Logical-Idea-Guy to explain this thread and his initial post that states:

"as many of you will know the law of conservation of mass i will not bother explaining it. well i dont know if some of you know that some scientists have proved this wrong,they have discovered 93m by 84 meters of something called antimatter which is formed when atoms are fired at each other at a certain speed they create or destroy atoms, every square mm of this stuff can power new york for a week"

He has yet to respond. What is this 93m by 84 meter something called antimatter?

He states "I will not bother to explain." I ask, "Please do bother to explain."

I ask this because he then says "some scientists have proved this wrong." This demands an explanation as to what he is talking about."

Ahhh gotcha. Like Light said, he's just a kid and is probably taking multiple pieces of information and trying to formulate understanding and assertions. One thing which I think his statment alludes to is that if we were to take say an antimatter marble and have it make contact with a matter marble then pure 100% engergy conversion would take place (enough to probably power the entire U.S. for a day).

Anti-matter is not yet proven that it works. Plus, you destroy matter in the process and we have a limited amount of matter on Earth.

Anti-matter is not yet proven that it works. Plus, you destroy matter in the process and we have a limited amount of matter on Earth.Supposedly, it's all converted into energy.

Light: I know: take it easy. That's why I only asked what the "93m by 84 meters of something" is supposed to be, or where he heard this?

Anti-matter is not yet proven that it works. Plus, you destroy matter in the process and we have a limited amount of matter on Earth.

Well, the amount of matter you'd have to annihilate to provide enough power for all of humanity for a thousand years would fit in your bathtub. And thousands (millions?) of tons of space debris land on earth every year, so there are no real limitations to the amount of matter we have access to.

All I'm asking is that he tell us what the "93m by 84 meter something" is and where he heard this?