aliens dont exist.
98% of all UFO's were covert military operations for advanced aerospace engineering.

We are talking about the stealth bomber and every single spy plane known to man.

The aurora exists and is the new ufo sighting mechanism.

If you think the US goverment is not doing what it should be doing and developing means of spying on foreign national interests you are crazy.
We know what is going on everywhere and the other countries dont even know.

sorry guys.

I'm fairly sure that aliens do in fact exist, it's a big universe. I just have not seen any proof that they are visiting our planet.

aliens dont exist.
.Just what rufus said.

98% of all UFO's were covert military operations for advanced aerospace engineering.98% of all UFOs are the usual suspects: clouds, venus, aeroplanes, meteors, ball lightning, marsh gas, etc., viewed by persons unskilled in objectve observation.

The remaining 2% are what you said.

aliens dont exist.

Oh, ok. :bugeye:

aliens dont exist.
sorry guys.
you say that like you are willing to bet the farm on it.
are you sure? the universe is a big place you know.

Yes, rufus pretty much hit the nail on the head. Aliens exist, just not anywhere near Earth. Except possibly Europan/Martian microbes

Ophiolite, to suggest that you think you know what I've seen, by mere statistics, your statement is flawed.

Aliens do exist, Ive never seen one, they've never come to earth as far as I know, and man has come up with technology which controls momentum and inertia VIA high voltage electricity, such technology CAN EASILY BE MISTAKEN FOR ALIEN CRAFT, especially since the CIA pulled the "Roswell Alien HOAX" in 1947, the same year the CIA was formed.

So yes, if you have seen a flying unit which is propelled by top-secret MANMADE technology, you've seen a top-secret aircraft, and not a "UFO."

especially since the CIA pulled the "Roswell Alien HOAX" in 1947, the same year the CIA was formed.

The Roswell incident occured in July of 1947.

I'm not certain that the CIA was formed in 1947. But if it was, it was formed on September 24th of 1947. Nearly 3 months AFTER Roswell.

btw: This entire thread is rediculous.

Doesn't matter, they could still receive funding to make a hoax which would cover up secret technology by scapegoating it to "aliens." They most likely thought that the CIA was something they wanted more of, so they just made it official by forming it.

VRob, I ask you, have you ever seen any flying machines which defy(control) inertia by doing 90 degree angles at very high speeds?

I assume you haven't. Just because YOUR eyes have never seen something like that, you shouldn't be so quick to discredit. I assume that you believe in a superior power and that you are not athiest, right? Then why is this so hard to believe?

I have always felt that roswell was dis-information aimed at the Soviet Union. I picture some mid level diplomat telling his Soviet counter part "Yes we shot down a UFO, just think what we can do to your bombers"

ALIENS
UFOs exist, the proof is undeniable. Thousands of people make reports yearly of strange lights performing impossible maneuvers that traditional earth-bound aircraft, commercial, military, etc; could never accomplish. While most of the world's governments try to deny the reality of their existence, they blame the sightings on natural aerial phenomenon, the planet Venus, swamp gas, weather balloons or mass hysteria.

Whether you buy into the culturally biased, mass-media induced viewpoints, or if you choose to think on your own; there is one ultimate truth that the world is afraid to accept...the reality that we are not alone in the universe, the proof is here, the proof is real, accept the truth...Aliens the Truth.

ARE YOU AFRAID TO ACCEPT EXISTENCE OF ALIEN LIFE.

LSUFOS, the flaw with your theory that governments are conspiring to cover up the existence of extra terrestrials is fatally flawed, because it relies on three key points.

1, That ALL world governments agree to do this, and there is no dissent. As some countries don't even recognise others, this isn't likely, so you proposition fails here.

2, That governments have the capability to cover up this phenomenon. I have a camcorder, and a digital camera, and a broadband connection, and a CD/DVD burner. How are the govt going to stop me distributing concrete proof of alien life? If I got it, and I planned it, there would be no way to prevent the spread of the information. So I guess that means if there is proof, the people with it aren't very clever.

3, That this phenomena has only been occurring while sophisticated world powers were able to communicate and agree to conspire. That makes it quite recent, so how come the aliens just got here? If they were visiting before we had organised govts, and Police forces, it would be common knowledge, and passed down. That hasn't happened, so the timing is suspiciously convenient.

That governments have the capability to cover up this phenomenon.

Yes they have.

How are the govt going to stop me distributing concrete proof of alien life.

Well some would use the SPOOKS.

That this phenomena has only been occurring while sophisticated world powers were able to communicate and agree to conspire. That makes it quite recent.

Wrong this phenomena been on going from time began.

ARE YOU AFRAID TO ACCEPT EXISTENCE OF ALIEN LIFE.

No, there just isn't any proof. Pray show us concrete proof (IE something else than blurred photos and videos, although these too have a place alongside better evidence) and we will believe that Intelligent Alien Life exists and is visiting our Earth. Merely shouting "Conspiracy!" will get you nowhere.

We are not going go over old ground with.
Blurred photos and videos.

PROOF YOU WANT.

ARE YOU AFRAID TO ACCEPT EXISTENCE OF ALIEN LIFE.

LSUFOS, the flaw with your theory that governments are conspiring to cover up the existence of extra terrestrials is fatally flawed, because it relies on three key points.

1, That ALL world governments agree to do this, and there is no dissent. As some countries don't even recognise others, this isn't likely, so you proposition fails here.

2, That governments have the capability to cover up this phenomenon. I have a camcorder, and a digital camera, and a broadband connection, and a CD/DVD burner. How are the govt going to stop me distributing concrete proof of alien life? If I got it, and I planned it, there would be no way to prevent the spread of the information. So I guess that means if there is proof, the people with it aren't very clever.

3, That this phenomena has only been occurring while sophisticated world powers were able to communicate and agree to conspire. That makes it quite recent, so how come the aliens just got here? If they were visiting before we had organised govts, and Police forces, it would be common knowledge, and passed down. That hasn't happened, so the timing is suspiciously convenient.

Phlogistician,
There are many ,many photographs,cine-film ,videos etc.,existing.
The problem is bringing them into the public domain.
Who would you go to if you wanted them published in a scientific review ?
Think about it.
It doesn`t happen. It requires many years of experience and high visibility within a scientific community to allow a single original idea to be published .
99.9% of Science Publishing Houses would not touch it with a sterile barge-pole.
The only people prepared to publish are the UFO groups ,who have limited circulation, with relatively small subscribers .
The whole field of UFO activists have been unable to influence the scientific community to date at a high enough level to produce a response.
It is an example of how the senior scientists are not allowing the facts to be brought into the open.

Regards, Awdsci.

Peer-reviewed literature would welcome the evidence of space-aliens with open arms if it were only verifiable. NONE of the alleged photos of ufos have turned out to be anything more verifiable than stars, planets, gas, clouds, headlights, streetlights, planes, etc.

"Ufo activists" could influence science with evidence.

Instead, we get nutter websites with blurry photos and the site's owners/promoters claiming that they've discovered space-aliens.

How are the govt going to stop me distributing concrete proof of alien life.

If such proof existed, it would stand on its own merit and no government could change it. Apparently such proof is non-existent.

ARE YOU AFRAID TO ACCEPT EXISTENCE OF ALIEN LIFE.

I see ufo/eti nutters make similar statements in threads like this all the time, we even had one that went so far as to assert that the skeptics were "alien infilitrators" trying to keep the word from being disclosed. Yet every skeptic I know, especially in this forum, welcomes the knowledge of alien life with open arms. We simply aren't amazed by blurry photos and the claims of those that are apparent significance-junkies and mystery-mongers.

So, Isufos, why aren't the government covering up your posts here as well? Why don't they take down your crappy website?

So, Isufos, why aren't the government covering up your posts here as well? Why don't they take down your crappy website?

They don't pay me enough.....

Okay thats a joke, I couldn't resist.

The daft thing is that it's more likely that my joke will be believed as being true, than some of the UFO nutters realising that some (if not all) their claims are false.

Hey, i love it when the skeptic talk throwing it back at me.

Sorry if you can not see and read the truth.

The lost boy/girl one day you will find your truth.

The daft thing is when your nutter mates believe you.

ARE YOU AFRAID TO ACCEPT EXISTENCE OF ALIEN LIFE.

Guess it's time to post this again :rolleyes:
The Last Will and Testament of Philip J. Klass

To UFOlogists who publicly criticize me…or who even think unkind thoughts about me in private, I do hereby leave and bequeath THE UFO CURSE: No matter how long you live, you will never know any more about UFOs than you know today. You will never know any more about what UFOs really are, or where they come from. You will never know any more about what the U.S. Government really knows about UFOs that you know today. As you lie on your own death-bed you will be as mystified about UFOs as you are today. And you will remember this curse.

Snake,
I like it.
Just like the CURSE of life all have eyes but not all can see
do any of you remember this curse.

May be not well that it is.

ARE YOU AFRAID TO ACCEPT EXISTENCE OF ALIEN LIFE.

Ok, so lets pretend some planet other than ours has intelligent life, let us also pretend that they have sent a ship to earth to investigate. I would think that these aliens would TELL EVERYONE THEY WERE HERE AFTER THAT LONG OF A F*CKING TRIP. But wait a second, the aliens are PRETEND.

Point Made.

Why not PRETEND your one in that silly looking ufo you fly about in.
Then we all can come see what a alien would look like how about
that.

May be not it may be plug

ARE YOU AFRAID TO ACCEPT EXISTENCE OF ALIEN LIFE

ARE YOU AFRAID TO ACCEPT EXISTENCE OF ALIEN LIFE
No. We just need actual evidence. Your site does not contain evidence.

Ok,
It is not my site, i will ask my friend if he can put more evidence on for you.

Sorry about that we all just go out hunting.
At the end of april there will be a update may even be what you look for actual evidence,

But are you.

ARE YOU AFRAID TO ACCEPT EXISTENCE OF ALIEN LIFE

http://lsufos.com

Snake,
I like it.
Just like the CURSE of life all have eyes but not all can see
do any of you remember this curse.

May be not well that it is.

ARE YOU AFRAID TO ACCEPT EXISTENCE OF ALIEN LIFE.
Please see my first post in this thread :rolleyes:
And your website could use any evidence not "some more".

Snake,
Yes but not any evidence some old most new and it will be added.
The site has only just started and with work and been away we got alot to do.

That governments have the capability to cover up this phenomenon.

Yes they have.

That is just an unsupported statement. To make your point, you need to refute my assertion that with a digital camcorder, digital camera, broadband connection, and DVD burner, that I could disseminate photos and videos of aliens, if I could aquire them. You'd have to show just how the world goverments would intercept every email, every parcel that I sent, somehow showing precognition that an innoccuous CD, or file transfer, contained such information. Bearing in mind, that I could have this information sent to dozens of people I know in many countries, and post it on public forums too, and have my friends also do the same, just how would it get stopped? Maybe you've seen too many films, such as Mission Impossible, where 'the disk' is a sought after commodity, and pursued by some govt agency. It's simple, you make copies. Dozens. You email copies. Hide info on ftp servers. It cannot be stopped. You also failed to address the requirement that ALL world govts need to agree to conspire, or the cat gets out of the bag. As world govts don't agree on every single issue, how do you explain them agreeing on this one?

How are the govt going to stop me distributing concrete proof of alien life.

Well some would use the SPOOKS.

Nobody follows me around checking what I put in the postbox, how would the spooks know what I'm posting? You really think that the MIB exist? Or do they tail you UFOlogists? Maybe that's just your paranoia?


Wrong this phenomena been on going from time began.

OK, so you make this statement, but ignore the problem I raised with it? You really aren't much good at debate are you? You cannot just ignore inconvenient details hoping I will forget. IF aliens have been visiting for a long time, predating organised governments, WHO was conspiring to cover this up back then? We've had organised Police forces for less than 200 years. So, before then, there were medieval MIB on horseback were there? Talk sense, and deal with the issue I raise, or you just look like a deluded fantasist.

ARE YOU AFRAID TO ACCEPT EXISTENCE OF ALIEN LIFE.

What a stupid question. I see no reason why there would not be intelligent life on other planets. That is not what we are talking about though is it? We are talking about that race being able to concquer the HUGE issues with travelling PHENOMENAL distances in space, and then, when they get here, instead of making themselves known, they are kept hidden by the government. By all world governments, and they abduct and anally probe people with psychological problems, but have NO interest in sitting down with a scientist and discussing clean energy, or whatever they came here to aquire or achieve. What is their purpose here, then?

Well

http://www.nsa.gov/ufo/

Well

http://www.nsa.gov/ufo/


What, in particular? Lots of people believe in god, and write lots of crap about god too, but a large volume of crap written on a subject, does not make a subject true. God, UFO's it doesn't matter. Quality evidence is all that counts.

Anyway, address my points, please, stop trying to divert attention from the flaws in your argument.

Well
http://www.nsa.gov/ufo/

All the files prove located on the site is that the NSA keeps an eye on what is said about itself, or at least did. This is understandible though because any of those that wrote about UFO's and involved them in some form of NSA conspiracy could of been seen as trying to create negative propaganda towards them at that time. (That time being the imfamous coldwar period)

As mentioned throughout most of these threads, uneducated/poorly educated people can draw conclusions and generate conspiracies that are just as damaging or potentially threatening as any Espionage agent under command by a foreign power. Which in turm means that those uneducated types were often investigated to make sure they weren't agents just playing dumb.

These uneducated are typically referred to as "mystery-mongers" and "significance-junkies."

NONE of the alleged photos of ufos have turned out to be anything more verifiable than stars, planets, gas, clouds, headlights, streetlights, planes, etc.

What a load of crap!

What a load of crap!

That's what I said! Its good to see you agree with me for a change.

How come all you intelligent boy/girls never see anything in any picture or footage.
May be you got somthing wrong in your head that can make you blind.

Not sure about you goverment are right book junkies

That's what I said! Its good to see you agree with me for a change.

I did not agree with you, nor do I recall a time when I ever did.

You are easily the most arrogant AND ignorant poster on this board. Although Phlog certainly gives you a run for your money on most days.

To say that EVERY photo/video has been fully explained is flat out FALSE. But I have no doubt you believe this.

Hey Isufos, you shouldn't POLLUTE the flying saucer conspiracy with ideas of aliens from space!

Because the facts of reality remain: The flying saucer is a MANMADE TOP SECRET TECHNOLOGY which was invented by Nikola Tesla, and seen in the skies of WWII and deamed foo-fighters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How come all you intelligent boy/girls never see anything in any picture or footage.

Well, you answered that one yourself; It's because we are intelligent.

May be you got somthing wrong in your head that can make you blind.

No, we see well enough to see that there's nothing out of the ordinary. Lights in the sky do not equal extra terrestrials.

Not sure about you goverment are right book junkies

Meds wearing off? You're mumbling.

No, we see well enough to see that there's nothing out of the ordinary. Lights in the sky do not equal extra terrestrials.

Phlogistician, I couldn't agree more, flying saucers are manmade, not alien

Phlogistician, I couldn't agree more, flying saucers are manmade, not alien

After we rule out natural phenomena, such as shooting stars, regular stars, planets, regular planes etc, I tend to agree with you. I'm sure there are some rather nifty aircraft being tested, than can do some pretty spectacular things.

flying saucer,

You may be right you could be wrong contact may be made next 10/20years.

But and there is always one, then what you ordinary boys/girls going talk about then.

If Intelligent life exists elsewhere in our galaxy, advances in computer processing power and radio telescope technology will ensure we detect their transmissions within two decades. That's the bold prediction from a leading light at the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence Institute in Mountain View, California.

But let us face up to the truth if contact is made you goverment book heads would deny it.

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/seti-04e.html

UFOs exist - in as much as there are almost certainly objects that, to some, are flying and are unidentified.
Thus they are, to those people, unidentified flying objects.

There is also a rational explanation for all of them that does not require the concept of visitation of aliens from another planet.
The fact that most people on this planet will not necessarily know what that explanation is does not alter this fact.

100% of the UFO sightings will either be man-made objects or naturally occurring phenomena.

100% may be may be not, i would put at 98% given the age of earth to other planets we humans have come a long way in the last 50years or so.

Snake,
Yes but not any evidence some old most new and it will be added.
The site has only just started and with work and been away we got alot to do.
Actually, I was suggesting (claiming?) that there is no evidence what so ever on that site. Also I wish you would work on adding a comma or two in your sentence structure. They are as tough to get through as duendy's but not nearly as funny. :D
http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/grammar/g_comma.html

Actually, you claim alot of things but have no evidence to back it up.
Let me know when you find this.

Actually, you claim alot of things but have no evidence to back it up.
Let me know when you find this.
You are doing the claiming, not me. The burden of proof lies with you.

100% of the UFO sightings will either be man-made objects or naturally occurring phenomena.

What a rediculous comment. Seriously, where do you people come from? :rolleyes:

Seriously, where do you people come from? :rolleyes:Most of us are from Epsilon Eridani. How about yourself?

Snake, and the rest the book heads get reading show me your evidence and back it up.
With the names of the Scientists that say there is no alien life out in space.
One of you book heads must know one may be not.

extra terrestrials

Snake, and the rest the book heads get reading show me your evidence and back it up.
With the names of the Scientists that say there is no alien life out in space.
One of you book heads must know one may be not.

extra terrestrials
No we do not say there is no life out in space :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
What we do say is that there is no evidence that they are visiting here.
Is reading comprehension one of your weaker skills?

No we do not say there is no life out in space

WHO SAID IT YOU

What we do say is that there is no evidence that they are visiting here.

WHO SAID IT YOU

To intelligent book heads found it yet.

WHO SAID THEY NOT

snake river rufus
No we do not say there is no life out in space.
Ah. Pop-logic deluxe. Adeptly applied specifically during exigencies for high-class logic in demand. But once upon a time you did believe there was no life in space. Then too was a fun time choking with popular and narrow minded logic.


What we do say is that there is no evidence that they are visiting here.
Still always the popular—and safe—course of logic. Until proven otherwise. Of course. But who should be doing the proving? And the approving? And disapproving? You? Please. How could you? Why not... them? Why not use a different logic here, a different approach? Why not turn the tables and see things differently from a different perspective? Their game. Their application. Their concept. Their logic. Their time. Their approach. Their overture.

Their contact.

But contact doesn't necessarily require proof, does it?


Is reading comprehension one of your weaker skills?
Not as much as your pop-logic is to you. Lol.

If Intelligent life exists elsewhere in our galaxy, advances in computer processing power and radio telescope technology will ensure we detect their transmissions within two decades. That's the bold prediction from a leading light at the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence Institute in Mountain View, California.

To use the word 'ensure' is unwise in the extreme. Radio waves travel at c, and if the first transmissions from an alien civilisation are 30 light years away still, terrestrial developments will do nothing to allow us to hear them in 20 years, do you understand that?.

Anyway, we aren't talking about the existence of alien life, we are talking about them travelling the vast distances of space, and landing here. Now, get this kid, if we don't pick up radio waves that travel at the speed of light, how can a craft have got here, ahead of any signal?

Great eh?

Get this kid,you are so intelligent you must know.

Radio waves that travel at the speed of light, how can a craft have got here, ahead of any signal?

WHAT IS THIS ABOUT.

Last post to told you on last thread PH

Aliens exist.

I would not be surprised if they visited.

And the government does and would cover up UFO phenomena.

Like the original post said, if 98% of the sightings are fakes, then why hasn 't the government divulged the mystery of the other 2% to the public so we may make our on decisions?

Have you ever heard of the government coming out and saying "Yeah, we had five UFO sightings yesterday, four of them were easily explained but the last one...we don't know." "Despite having analyzied it from every possible angle, we are unable to determine what type of craft is seen is this video..." "If have any ideas please call..1-800-Help-Gov"

Yeah right, the government has covered up 1000's of unexplained encounters and continues to do so.

If there is anything I am sure of in this mystery, it's the gov'ts complete willingness to cover up and lie to the public about UFO sightings.

Listen to Coast to Coast A with Art Bell and Geroge Nory.

They frequently have ex-military personel that have exposed their knowledge of gov't cover-ups. Listen to them yourself and decide if they are lying.

Great eh?

Get this kid,you are so intelligent you must know.

Radio waves that travel at the speed of light, how can a craft have got here, ahead of any signal?

WHAT IS THIS ABOUT.

Last post to told you on last thread PH

Don't you comprehend the problem? It's quite simple. The speed limit for objects with mass is c, the speed of light. Radio waves travel at the speed of light also.

A civilisation develops radio communication, and starts broadcasting, those transmissions zooming across space for us to eventually pick up with our radio telescopes.

Many decades later, they become a spacefaring nation. Somehow, they must overtake their radio signals, to arrive here before the signal. Of course, nothing with mass can travel faster than the speed of light, according to current physics. BUT even if it could, using a wormhole, it still doesn't answer how we were targetted. Space is big, very big, and homing in on OUR transmissions would be a good way to detect us. BUT that means our signals have reached them, but despite them being more advanced, and probably therefore having started transmissions earlier than us, their signal has not been detected by us, .... hmmmm

So, fix the holes in this and get back to me, kid. Oh, and please include a feasible mechanism for FTL travel too.

Aliens exist.

I would not be surprised if they visited.

And the government does and would cover up UFO phenomena.

Like the original post said, if 98% of the sightings are fakes, then why hasn 't the government divulged the mystery of the other 2% to the public so we may make our on decisions?

Have you ever heard of the government coming out and saying "Yeah, we had five UFO sightings yesterday, four of them were easily explained but the last one...we don't know." "Despite having analyzied it from every possible angle, we are unable to determine what type of craft is seen is this video..." "If have any ideas please call..1-800-Help-Gov"

Yeah right, the government has covered up 1000's of unexplained encounters and continues to do so.

If there is anything I am sure of in this mystery, it's the gov'ts complete willingness to cover up and lie to the public about UFO sightings.

I think you need to re-read this thread, and actually understand the problems
with a so called 'cover up' scenario. IE, that it is totally unfeasible. Please, go read the three points I raised with it, and answer them fully, if you are going to persist with the notion.

PH,
Now lets face the truth here if alien race was like you and the rest of you intelligent book heads here then they may never reach here.
They would be much like you on computer, ass geting fat nothing in life but coming on to threads with no belief in anything trying to put a outdated point of view across to the rest of us GEE what a outlook.
But if they the alien race was more like humans with a belief, that they are not alone then they would look for life outhere.

Aliens arrive here before the signal may be not may be it was sent out billions of years before we arrived, the earth is a young planet so may be left and found us already.

But you will be right in thinking there is nothing and no one has a belief in anything.
SAD GET.

Last reply to PH

Isufos, your argument for space-aliens boils down to a "believe and it'll be true" strategy. Its fine to want space-aliens to be visiting us, but just believing they are doesn't make it so.

A half-assed website of blurry photos also does not make them true.

What *is* your point in this forum? You're saying space-aliens are UFOS, but you are showing us any evidence, discussing any evidence, or offering any arguments other than "I believe, therefore its true."

That's my daughter's argument for the Easter Bunny, of whom there is far more evidence.

By the way, your last reply to PH was on the 3rd page. How many "last replies" does he get?

Skin
LAST REPLY TO YOU AS WELL another with no belief.
Sorry that you can not see what others can may be just somthing in your head that do that or may be you have nothing to believe in.

But it will not stop anyone with a belief as to what you have to say with a outdated look on belief.
Sorry

Government coverups.... well just look at peoples reactions in regards to Iran and their nuclear program, the Popular press was asserting strategic reactions for a nuclear conflict. The press would of made the world believe both that Iran was about to launch nuclear missiles and that the US was about to wipe them out before they could do it, such fear mongering is caused by misinterpretation of data.

In the past during the coldwar, there would have been any number of things occur between superpowers that could have caused a conflict. The reason that any coverups existed was incase the press started a campaign of fear mongering which would result in an actual conflict, civil unrest or worse still war.

I know someone mentioned something to me who posts here, during the coldwar such potential catalysts for everything to go down the pan was really down to "Dares". all it takes is one pilot or commander to decide to play a bit of capture the flag, tag or hide and seek. (Anyone ever played "Knock and run" when younger?)

I, like others with critical thought abilities, choose to believe in that which can be demonstrated with evidence.

There are those, however, who would believe in the fantastic: the mystery-mongers and significance-junkies. They bury their heads in the sands to critical questions and thought, as if this, or sticking their fingers in their ears and humming, makes the questions and criticisms go away.

In other words, you're engaging in intellectual dishonesty. Then again, this is perhaps giving you too much credit, allow me to rephrase. You're engaging in dishonesty.

NASA SECRET UFO VIDEO
Wonder what they say about this the book heads i mean

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9080369676973948865&q=ufo

PH,
Now lets face the truth here if alien race was like you and the rest of you intelligent book heads here

Yep, intelligent, got that right, as I studied physics at University, and then worked with a bunch of rocket scientists and astronomers for several years.


then they may never reach here.

I doubt that, as my former 'book head' colleagues made satellite instruments, and had them launched, and analysed the data. I was part of an organisation that made and used tools to discover the mysteries of the Universe. I met a real astronaut, and rubbed shoulders with some pretty intelligent people (and my IQ ranks me as a genius, and these guys were phenomenal). So I think my 'book head' chums might be actually doing something about achieving knowledge, and furthering us with space travel. What are you doing, exactly? Oh yes, you have a half arsed web site.

They would be much like you on computer, ass geting fat

I'm hardly fat! I'm at the top end of my BMI, but that's muscle, as I used to lift a lot of weights, and do martial arts. I run two or three times a week, and damned nearly have six pack. Not bad for a guy pushing 40, I think!

nothing in life but coming on to threads

And your great life consist of what? Ah, yes, you are made complete by your half arsed web site!

with no belief in anything

Now, pay attention, I know comprehension isn't your forté, but you really, really should try and digest what people write, because otherwise, well, you start to look stupid. I already told you I believe there is no reason to doubt the existence of alien life elsewhere in the Universe. See that? It's a belief in something.

trying to put a outdated point of view across to the rest of us GEE what a outlook.

If it's 'outdated', then maybe you could find a refutation?

But if they the alien race was more like humans with a belief, that they are not alone then they would look for life outhere.

I believe alien life exists too. I just believe it isn't visiting. Now, please feel free to address the points I raised vis the latter!

Aliens arrive here before the signal may be not may be it was sent out billions of years before we arrived, the earth is a young planet so may be left and found us already.

Billions of years? May I remind you that the Universe is only ~14Bn years old, and life requires a planet around a 2nd generation star (you know what one of those is, right?), so do you have any candidates in mind?

But you will be right in thinking there is nothing and no one has a belief in anything.
SAD GET.
Last reply to PH

That last sentence was really poor and meant very little. You really do need to work on your composition. On the 'SAD' part, it's very sad that you are so poorly educated, inarticulate, and are wasting your life believing in nonsense. Maybe you'll grow up and look back at your folly, and have learned something from it. I hope.

NASA SECRET UFO VIDEO
Wonder what they say about this the book heads i mean

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9080369676973948865&q=ufo


What is 'secret' about that? Seen it before, and it was just as unconvincing the first time.

Ex-Soviet cosmonauts appearing at UFO conventions does not surprise me. They will get paid to preach to the converted, and as long as they aren't too outrageous in their claims, will be allowed to continue. Most ex-cosmonauts however, have a bit more respect, and restrict their activities to book and photograph signings. If you hadn't noticed, the Russian space program isn't exactly well funded, and cosmonauts need to do something to make a buck. Telling people what they want to hear included.

You really do need better sources than TV documentaries!

In case you all missed it then here it is.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9080369676973948865&q=ufo

In case you all missed it then here it is.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9080369676973948865&q=ufo

No, we saw it, linking it twice does not make it more credible.

I wish to publicly apologise for the illiteracy, stupidity, rudeness and general lack of connection with reality displayed by lsufos. As far as I can determine he is the first idiot poster on sciforums who originates in Scotland. As a proud Scot it offends my sensibilities that a cretin like him exists in this noble country. I just wish to assure you that the vast majority of us are wholly unlike him: for the most part we are arrogant, humorous, drunken bastards with hairy balls, large intellects and a penchant for whipping the English. (Since I am half English this involves a good deal of self flaggelation.)

Now, lsufos, which of the following are you going to do?

a) make an effort to write coherent English
b) claim you are educationally subnormal
c) piss off home to mama
d) make me follow you around picking up dangling participles and discarded punctuation

I will pick d

You can be ma dug

Got to do some work back later though.

Anyone seen ma dug big ears think i lost him

lsufos correction post:

I will pick d). You can be ma dug. (This is Lalan' Scots: it translates as 'You can be my dog'.)
I must do some work. I shall be back later, though.
Has anyone seen my dog? Big ears. I think I lost him.

shouldn't that be, "och man, a lost ma wee doggie wi big ears hen?"

Meanwhile, on subject of aliens, you do realise of course that if aliens ever do pay us a visit they will most likely round us all up like cattle, farm us and eat us?

As this is what intelligent life forms do with lesser ones.

I shan't be rolling out the red carpet to any alien in green wellies that's for sure.

Meanwhile, on subject of aliens, you do realise of course that if aliens ever do pay us a visit they will most likely round us all up like cattle, farm us and eat us?

As this is what intelligent life forms do with lesser ones.

I shan't be rolling out the red carpet to any alien in green wellies that's for sure.
To the Bofors!

A dinnae read a lot, bit ah will hiv a wee gander tae include some stuff aboot intelligent book heeds.
Ach ah suppose it's aboot ma wee dug big ears yoos yins ken is gonnae be a wee stoater

Intelligent life forms If ah feel like it ah might shoot ma gob aff aboot it.

Sorry that you can not see what others can may be just somthing in your head that do that or may be you have nothing to believe in.

But it will not stop anyone with a belief as to what you have to say with a outdated look on belief spooks.
Sorry

http://lsufos.com

NASA SECRET UFO VIDEO
Wonder what they say about this the book heads i mean

http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...973948865&q=ufo


Isufos, you disappoint me quite honestly. You must decipher fact from fiction, while your video may have "real video of flying saucers," you still think they are extraterrestrials. The MOST likely origin of such flying machines is MAN.... think about it, they are top secret, thats all dude. (however, it is some bad-ass technology which could easily be mistaken as "alien," as far as most witnesses of flying saucers are concerned, it is "alien," but mostly alien because they have never seen such before..... think about it Isufos)

Ah. Pop-logic deluxe. Adeptly applied specifically during exigencies for high-class logic in demand. But once upon a time you did believe there was no life in space. Then too was a fun time choking with popular and narrow minded logic.
Don't put words in my posts. You have no idea what I have ever believed about life in space.

Still always the popular—and safe—course of logic. Until proven otherwise. Of course. But who should be doing the proving? And the approving? And disapproving? You? Please. How could you? Why not... them? Why not use a different logic here, a different approach? Why not turn the tables and see things differently from a different perspective? Their game. Their application. Their concept. Their logic. Their time. Their approach. Their overture.
The burden of proof lies with the claimant. Or at least the responsibility to provide any evidence. The rest of your post is just silly drivel.

But contact doesn't necessarily require proof, does it?
Oh yes, contact most certainly does require proof. Or if you wish to even be taken seriously then you must at the very least supply evidence

I didn't put words in your post -- I logically deduced from your viewpoint, which you worded for yourself, a general standpoint, that is, the conventional standpoint. As to, what you "have ever believed about life in space", I'm sure it holds absolutely no interest to me in regards to this topic.

snake river rufus
The burden of proof lies with the claimant. Or at least the responsibility to provide any evidence.

We're talking about two types of "evidence". I was being specific about what type I was referring to:

But who should be doing the proving? And the approving? And disapproving? You? Please. How could you? Why not... them? Why not use a different logic here, a different approach? Why not turn the tables and see things differently from a different perspective? Their game. Their application. Their concept. Their logic. Their time. Their approach. Their overture.

Their contact.

But contact doesn't necessarily require proof, does it?

The nonterrestrial who initiates contact, and the terrestrial who intercepts a contact, have no "burden of proof" to claim!

snake river rufus
The rest of your post is just silly drivel.

Ouch!

Oh yes, contact most certainly does require proof. Or if you wish to even be taken seriously then you must at the very least supply evidence

Why must you (you, as in the general population) require proof? For whose benefit? Your own? Can't you see? It. Does. Not. Matter. What. You. Believe. In.

Or do you actually believe extraterrestrial beings would give a shit what you believe in???

Meanwhile, on subject of aliens, you do realise of course that if aliens ever do pay us a visit they will most likely round us all up like cattle, farm us and eat us?

As this is what intelligent life forms do with lesser ones.

I shan't be rolling out the red carpet to any alien in green wellies that's for sure.

-- I know you're not addressing me 'cuz you use "meanwhile" all over the place. Gets on my nerves: you're the only one here using my intervening adverb! But I'll address this 'cuz it's of interest.

I disagree. It would be a lesser intelligent life form that would blindly intervene and get hopelessly involved with another societal structure and be stuck with a fierce responsibility -- or a bad conscience -- because of it.

Why must you (you, as in the general population) require proof? For whose benefit? Your own? Can't you see? It. Does. Not. Matter. What. You. Believe. In.
So, you have no proof at all then?

Dreams. Dreams cascading down the rock fall of ineptitude and ignorance, plummeting into the basin of banality and the pool of pathos, before insipidly flowing to the sea of irrelevance.
Meanwhile, why do you believe with no evidence? How do you choose a bizaree thing to believe in? What mechanism of self deception do you employ? What triggers the waves of self delusion? In short, why are you such a prat?

Heres ma dug, big ears

A dinnae read a lot, bit ah will hiv a wee gander tae include some stuff aboot intelligent book heeds.
Ach ah suppose it's aboot ma wee dug big ears yoos yins ken is gonnae be a wee stoater

Intelligent life forms If ah feel like it ah might shoot ma gob aff aboot it.

Sorry that you can not see what others can may be just somthing in your head that do that or may be you have nothing to believe in.

But it will not stop anyone with a belief as to what you have to say with a outdated look on belief spooks.
Sorry

manmadeflyingsaucer

Never ever said that or made that claim.
But if the goverment say it is not them then what are they going do with this bad-ass technology as you say.

Sorry guys. I'm giving up on the simultaneous translation of lsufos drivel. The only parts that are well constructed and intellgible to me or those part in faux Scots. They contain nothing of value. {Come to think of it, we should honour consistency.}

lsufos - why believe that for which there is no compelling evidence?

helloooo

Why believe that for which there is no compelling evidence?

You would have to be a right dimwit to not believe that there no life othere planets.
Even MARS.
Life on Mars Likely,Scientist Claims
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/mars_microorganisms_040803.html


Now that is near but they Scientists will be wrong in your eyes though.

Intelligent life, LIKE YOU SPOOKS HERE WOULD NOT GO LOOKING YOU GOT TO HAVE BELIEF IN IT.

Never ever said that or made that claim.
But if the goverment say it is not them then what are they going do with this bad-ass technology as you say.

Nevermind, Im done trying to explain this

So, you have no proof at all then?

"Proof" is not <em>my</em> urgency, nor "claimant" my objective, nor "burden" my responsibility -- words SnakeRiverRufus so kindly pointed out for you all. The absolute demand for "proof" seems to preoccupy you more like a nervous twitch in your psyche than does a genuine <em>concern</em> for something that is a viable plausibility. You're not dealing with certainty here, but with a disadvantage. You're not dealing with a thesis, but with an unfurling circumstance. Truth versus Proof will not always conform, align, be compatible. Testimony versus Evidence will not always adapt. Demand is your law. Concern is my advantage.

CH

So, Isufos, why aren't the government covering up your posts here as well? Why don't they take down your crappy website?


No need alien life forms are not on the agenda.

But they passed three new laws though.

Three new Acts become law
30 March 2006

The Terrorism Act 2006, the Identity Cards Act and the Immigration, Asylum and Nationality Act all received royal assent on Thursday 30 March, becoming law.

Terrorism Act 2006
Powerful new measures in the Terrorism Act 2006 will help the police and law enforcement agencies tackle the threat of terrorism. The Terrorism Act 2006 makes it a criminal offence to:

encourage terrorism, including to glorify terrorism
disseminate terrorist publications, including by extremist bookshops and through internet activity
prepare or plan to commit a terrorist act, or to assist others to do so
give or receive terrorist training, or to attend a terrorist training camp
More information about the Terrorism Act 2006.

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/about-us/news/new-acts

helloooo

Why believe that for which there is no compelling evidence?

You would have to be a right dimwit to not believe that there no life othere planets.
Even MARS.
Life on Mars Likely,Scientist Claims
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/mars_microorganisms_040803.html


Now that is near but they Scientists will be wrong in your eyes though.

Intelligent life, LIKE YOU SPOOKS HERE WOULD NOT GO LOOKING YOU GOT TO HAVE BELIEF IN IT.

The opening Title of "Life on Mars Likely, Scientist Claims" isn't actually stating that the entire scientific community believes life likely but actually just one scientist. You totally missed:


Other scientists are cautious to point out that the presence of water does not guarantee life. Rather, it means one crucial ingredient exists.

Issue 1:
You would have to be a right dimwit to not believe that there no life othere planets.

Pay close attention here lsufos. There is an outside chance you could learn something.
First, I presume you did not mean what you typed above, but meant this:
You would have to be a right dimwit to believe that there is no life on other planets.

No. You wouldn't. There is almost no evidence for life on other planets. The single exceptions are two controversial, and generally discounted, instances relating to Mars. [See below for a fuller discussion.]

There are several well considered reasons to suspect that life may exist elsewhere. These are different from evidence. Attempts have been made to estimate the probability of intelligent life existing elsewhere in the Universe, or in our Galaxy. These estimates are often expressed in terms of the Drake Equation.

A reasoned discussion of these probabilities by Ward and Brownlee in their book Rare Earth concludes that while primitive microbial life may be commonplace, complex lifeforms will be rare, and intelligent life may even be unique.

So, you would not be a dimwit to doubt the existence of life on other worlds, merely sceptical in the absence of any objective data to support that contention.

Issue 2:
Even MARS......Now that is near but they Scientists will be wrong in your eyes though.
As noted above Mars has provided the only evidence for life on other planets:

a) The nanobacteria allegedly present in the meteorite ALH84001.
b) The disputed positive responses to the Viking experiments on the surface of Mars in the 1970s.

Both are rejected by the scientific community at large. I go along with the rejection of the ALH84001 bacteria: far too tenuous an interpretation. On the other hand, I strongly suspect that the Viking tests did reveal dormant microbial life forms in the Martian soil. Future Mars exploration will reveal the truth.

What does this say about the possibility of widespread life on planets in other systems? Unfortunately, almost nothing. The planets of the solar system routinely exchange material as a result of impact. Life could have originated on Earth or Mars and travelled to the other inside ejecta.

Issue 3:
Life versus intelligent life versus intelligent life visiting this planet versus intelligent life visiting this planet today

I am fairly certain that life is widespread throughout the Universe. That does not mean intelligent aliens are visiting the Earth today.

I consider it possible, even probable, that intelligent life may be found elsewhere in the Universe. That does not mean intelligent aliens are visiting the Earth today.

I consider it possible, though of questionable probability, that intelligent life forms have visited our solar system in person or with robotic craft in the past. That does not mean intelligent aliens are visiting the Earth today.

To assess the likelihood of any and all of these possibilities requires an objective assessment of the evidence. You, lsufos, seem incapable of that.

Issue 4:
Intelligent life, LIKE YOU SPOOKS HERE WOULD NOT GO LOOKING YOU GOT TO HAVE BELIEF IN IT.

Sonny, I suspect I had an interest in ET before you even existed.
Do you even know about Project Ozma (without running to do a quick google?)

You say I would not go looking for ET:
I fully support the various SETI projects currently underway.
I applaud the plans to build telescopes large enough to resolve continents on extra-solar terrestrial sized planets, and to detect atmospheric composition.
I favour investigation of our solar system for evidence of robotic observation devices left or sent by alien intelligences.

None of the above require that I believe in alien intelligences, only that I acknowledge their possibility and their importance.

And none of this has any relationship to purported alien spacecraft. Has it occured to you that the scientists who are engaged in the various SETI programs, and research into life on Mars, or any aspect of exobiology, all of them are quite dismissive of the UFO phenomena.

If you seriously have an interest in alien worlds and alien life then stop jamming up the airwaves with UFO [I]noise. It distracts from the serious business of proper research.

"Proof" is not <em>my</em> urgency, nor "claimant" my objective, nor "burden" my responsibility -- words SnakeRiverRufus so kindly pointed out for you all. The absolute demand for "proof" seems to preoccupy you more like a nervous twitch in your psyche than does a genuine <em>concern</em> for something that is a viable plausibility. You're not dealing with certainty here, but with a disadvantage. You're not dealing with a thesis, but with an unfurling circumstance. Truth versus Proof will not always conform, align, be compatible. Testimony versus Evidence will not always adapt. Demand is your law. Concern is my advantage.
I agree that there is a possibility of alien life, and even intelligent alien life. However they are not near Earth. This is the nub of this thread.
You would have to be a right dimwit to not believe that there no life othere planets.
I don't think anyone ever claimed that.

I didn't put words in your post -- I logically deduced from your viewpoint, which you worded for yourself, a general standpoint, that is, the conventional standpoint. As to, what you "have ever believed about life in space", I'm sure it holds absolutely no interest to me in regards to this topic.
And yet you took the time to post those words :rolleyes:

No, there just isn't any proof. Pray show us concrete proof (IE something else than blurred photos and videos, although these too have a place alongside better evidence) and we will believe that Intelligent Alien Life exists and is visiting our Earth....What we do say is that there is no evidence that they are visiting here.

I think that the situation is more nuanced than that. Sensationalistic claims to the contrary, any "credible" UFO evidence currently available basically boils down into two forms: surveillance and biological recordings. Both forms have severe, but not insurmountable, problems of verification associated with them.

Surveillance evidence are radar, camera, video, acoustic - anything - where some Joe Schmoe recorded an anomaly whose existence could be explained by an object moving in a fashion that exceeds the parameters of Terrestrial science, or otherwise demonstrating some characteristic that renders alternative hypotheses redundant. The problem is that any media is fakable, and so creates a powerful circular argument:

Because UFO's don't exist, and because media can be fabricated, therefore all forms of surveillance evidence purporting to show an alien craft must have been faked.

With modern special effects and the state of photographic analysis, I'm under the impression that there just isn't anything that recorded media can ever produce that will break the 'circular' defenses outlined above.

Previously, I've pointed out that if UFO's are alien, then part of their design criteria will be that of penetrating an air defense network. And that, since surveillance radar existed before we had stealth technology, there may be photographs of objects from the 1950's, 60's and 70's which exhibit stealth characteristics. If so, then the notion of a fake would become incredulous: Mr. 1957 Joe Blow, lacking a supercomputer and a team of elite engineers, can't possibly know how to model his hubcap to defeat J-band radars.

Next, for biological evidence I'm not referring to FOX network 'Alien Autopsy', or similar crap. From my casual understanding of the topic, the human brain is a biological computer which analyzes, prioritizes, and stores sensory data stemming from various life experiences. It is merely a more sophisticated version of the types of machines in category #1 above. However - and this is the golden caveat - what will make this particular DVD eventually definitive to 'the question' is that the processes by which the mind records and stores information is unfakeable.

That is to say, regardless of how manipulative, deceptive, cunning, ruthless and amoral a person is, at some cellular level their brains automatically record and store sensory input. And therefore that within a UFO claimant's physical brain tissue there will be some form of chemical structure - a biological marker utterly incapable of being falsified - that can eventually be accessed to allow a scientist to verify or prove null the veracity of the claims said witness is making.

With the right technology (beyond our present means, of course) not only should it be possible to tell with 100% certainty whether a person is truthful or not, it also will be possible for doctors to process this stored biochemical data and examine the information as a media recording. Therefore, I reject the notion of a 'UFO curse'. At some point it will either be determined with acceptable statistical certainty that UFO claimants are all liars, or otherwise defective, or that their brain chemistry confirms (by devastatingly scientific processes) that they're telling the truth. The investigating team will be able to review the subject's visual, audio and olfactory memory recordings directly - allowing experts to evaluate 'sightings' using the raw biological data, as if they themselves had been present at the incident in question.

And the government does and would cover up UFO phenomena.

Traditionally, governments tend not to be enthusiastic about anything which undermines authority. Ideology has proven to be a destabilizing influence in the past, and it's not inconceivable that the certain knowledge our entire planet's existence hangs by an alien thread might just make the masses of the world, shall we say, just a tad more susceptible to leftist internationalistic drivel.

If people truly believed and understood that the earth was being watched by a force that could destroy it effortlessly, IMO this would impair the ability of national governments to conduct foreign policy. What should happen is that the perception of this peril would cause a universal groundswell of resistance to most forms of military adventure - no matter how critical or necessary. A movement not supported by leftist nutbar anti-establishment types, but the most dangerous opponents of all; mothers and fathers. The calculus of self-interest - by which all measures of policy are evaluated -would be forever altered.

Like the original post said, if 98% of the sightings are fakes, then why hasn't the government divulged the mystery of the other 2% to the public so we may make our on decisions?

Because if a sighting remains unexplained, then they don't know the answer. The government cannot 'divulge' the mystery of something which remains mysterious.


A civilization develops radio communication, and starts broadcasting, those transmissions zooming across space for us to eventually pick up with our radio telescopes.

This vastly overstates our capability to detect such faint signals. There are sights on the web that can calculate SETI detection ranges depending on a host of variables. Suffice it to say that at cosmic distances a signal has to be unfeasibly powerful to be seen by us here. For instance, a Russian S-300 Grumble air search radar (a very powerful transmitter here on earth broadcasting in a detection-friendly wavelength) could not be detected even if transmitting at us from the nearest star.

Government coverups.... well just look at peoples reactions in regards to Iran and their nuclear program, the Popular press was asserting strategic reactions for a nuclear conflict. The press would of made the world believe both that Iran was about to launch nuclear missiles and that the US was about to wipe them out before they could do it, such fear mongering is caused by misinterpretation of data.


My favorite conspiracy was back in 1990 when the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador posed as a nurse claiming to have witnessed Iraqi troops disconnecting incubators and killing pre-term babies in Kuwait City. The diplomatic community in Washington is small. The daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador was known to this community; therefore, the story must have been known at the time to be questionable. And yet, strangely, one will search high and low in vain for any peep from the mainstream media prior to the Gulf War that the story she conveyed might be bogus.

<They would> TELL EVERYONE THEY WERE HERE AFTER THAT LONG OF A F*CKING TRIP. But wait a second, the aliens are PRETEND.

Do recall that a 'trip' to earth might not be that 'long' to our alien friends. According to Einstein, as an object approaches unity with C, time slows down. We here on earth, aware of a ship approach from a nearby star, might experience the passing of 10 years before it arrives. But for the passengers on the vessel, the voyage might only take a week.

You'd have to show just how the world goverments would intercept every email, every parcel that I sent, somehow showing precognition that an innocuous CD, or file transfer, contained such information.

Certainly not. Mankind is a political animal with an ingrained sense of hierarchy. All a government has to do to exorcise from the mainstream such undesirable things as the potential 'existence' UFO's is to ignore it. If a democracy 'brought down the hammer' and actively tried to suppress such discussion, then they'd virtually be proving that UFO's exist. For why would they do such a ridiculous thing? At the absolute most, I could see a government hostile and fearful of the matter working to discredit the public phenomena.

That is not what we are talking about though is it? We are talking about that race being able to conquer the HUGE issues with traveling PHENOMENAL distances in space, and then, when they get here, instead of making themselves known, they are kept hidden by the government

Silly isn't it? That aliens would come all the way here to earth and make no attempt at communication. IMO, there are two explanations for this:

1) The aliens aren't here.
2) The aliens are here and they are not friendly.

Either one handily explains a government reluctance to discuss the matter, by the way.

Why believe that for which there is no compelling evidence?

Because last time I checked, the galaxy we live in is one giant cesspool of material capable of building the basic blocks of life, and this 'factory' has probably been manufacturing biomass for billions of years before Earth contributed her first tiny, crude product to the galactic total. You might choose to dismiss the possibilities inherent to this, but do understand that this has no bearing whatever on the current state of matters in the galaxy.

"Proof" is not <em>my</em> urgency, nor "claimant" my objective, nor "burden" my responsibility -- words SnakeRiverRufus so kindly pointed out for you all. The absolute demand for "proof" seems to preoccupy you more like a nervous twitch in your psyche than does a genuine <em>concern</em> for something that is a viable plausibility. You're not dealing with certainty here, but with a disadvantage. You're not dealing with a thesis, but with an unfurling circumstance. Truth versus Proof will not always conform, align, be compatible. Testimony versus Evidence will not always adapt. Demand is your law. Concern is my advantage.
Let me try another way. If you were ill would you rather see a M.D. who uses hard data and scientific means to find a cure? Or a faith healer who uses silly superstition? Because you are asking us to believe in something that there is absolutely no evidence for!

Glenn239 posted
Do recall that a 'trip' to earth might not be that 'long' to our alien friends. According to Einstein, as an object approaches unity with C, time slows down. We here on earth, aware of a ship approach from a nearby star, might experience the passing of 10 years before it arrives. But for the passengers on the vessel, the voyage might only take a week.


:cool: And what else does Einstein tell use about an object with mass as it approaches C? Gain or lose mass? Require more or less energy to move at that speed.
But all of that begs the question, How did they find us in the first place?

A READ MA WEE DUGS POST,

snake,

How did they find us in the first place?
Well they did some sort of search, and it was not on the internet.
How about that snake

A READ MA WEE DUGS POST,

snake,

How did they find us in the first place?
Well they did some sort of search, and it was not on the internet.
How about that snake
As someonme else pointed out space is really big!
Do you have any idea how much space they would have to shift through? Or how long such a search would take?

That was an awesome post Glenn. Very detailed and informative!

And yet you took the time to post those words :?*rolleyes?*:Huh??

I now suspect I wasted my time posting anything creative in this thread in this subforum in this forum thinking it might make a difference. Big deal, right? You people will still be groping around for a handle in the dark regardless: <em>that's your legacy.</em>

Let me try another way. If you were ill would you rather see a M.D. who uses hard data and scientific means to find a cure? Or a faith healer who uses silly superstition? Because you are asking us to believe in something that there is absolutely no evidence for!Huh??

Oh I see. You're attempting to save face.

I am asking you to believe in something that has no evidence?? God. It's like talking to a bunch of bricks.

I am asking you to believe in something that has no evidence?? God. It's like talking to a bunch of bricks.
Why should anyone believe in something sans evidence? That is just stupid. Have you met duendy? I think that you would have a lot in common. :rolleyes:

And what else does Einstein tell use about an object with mass as it
approaches C? Gain or lose mass? Require more or less energy to move at that speed.

To move at near-light velocities, stupendous amounts of energy are required.
For instance, IIRC something the mass of the battleship Bismarck would need
in and around 3-4 seconds of the total energy output of the sun to achieve
over .9 C. However, I'm not particularly interested in the fact that such a feat would be difficult, merely that it is not impossible according to the rules as we understand them. You can rest assured that ET, if he exists, is a rather clever chap who's had a few million years to ponder such things.

But all of that begs the question, How did they find us in the first place?

My guess? Well, on the Internet you get what you pay for..

If they're here, then they found us because they've searched the entire
galaxy looking for the likes of us. Which in turn would mean either they are awfully curious, or had a reason to do so.

As someonme else pointed out space is really big!

Yes it is. But the galaxy is really old too, meaning that if we assume ET also to be ancient, then he'd have had plenty of time to scout every star
in the galaxy.

Do you have any idea how much space they would have to shift through? Or how long such a search would take?

Well, let's assume the galaxy to be 100,000 light years across and with 200
billion stars, and our intrepid little green meanies wish to search every
star from the galactic core out to the fringes. That means, at an absolute
minimum, a completed search by 200 billion .99c capable probes would not finish a preliminary sweep and report back to Greenie Central for around
100,000-200,000 years, depending on HQ location. Fewer probes would take longer - but given the fact that they should be able to map out an efficient search pattern for each probe, I'd suggest that the delay incurred wouldn't be even an order of magnitude. I'm thinking even slowpoke sweepers could search every star and report back to a central base within, say, 10 million years of the program starting.

The galaxy is over 10 billion years old.

That was an awesome post Glenn. Very detailed and informative!

Thanks. Obviously I don't agree that the situation is as straightforward as
some make it out to be. If you think of the galaxy as simply an inefficient biomass factory that’s been ‘online’ for X billion years, then we’ve got one heck of a lot of snooping to do before we can conclude anything about being alone in this dump they call the Milky Way.


Why should anyone believe in something sans evidence?

Because it's possible. When the answer to something is unknown and a variety of explanations are available, a rational actor will try to assign
probabilities to the possibilities and not make an absolute, binary yes/no choice.

What the situation requires for UFO’s to be here today is that ET would exist, systematically search for us over the course of the last X years, find us, come here, spy on us, not talk to us, be seen by us on occasion, and our own government(s) not ‘fess up to any of these facts. Fortunately (or otherwise) all of these prerequisites have certain inherent symmetry, don’t they? That is, if ET considered things like us to be such a threat as to warrant all this effort, then he’d have strong motive to find us, spy on us, and not talk to us. And were he doing so, our governments would have motive not to admit that it’s happening; ET could wipe us out in an instant, and the voters might not be entirely comfortable with that fact.

All the discussion of how long it would take for ET to reach us seem to revolve around the notion that three score years and ten are the normal life span for intelligent beings. You don't suppose that a tad anthropocentric, do you?

All the discussion of how long it would take for ET to reach us seem to revolve around the notion that three score years and ten are the normal life span for intelligent beings. You don't suppose that a tad anthropocentric, do you?

Certainly is, BUT, the purpose of exploration, is surely to deliver some news, or return some benefit to the faring organisation within it's lifespan? Unless the community in question has discovered limitless, free energy, and wants to share this to avert cataclsym on other planets, and it is driven purely through altruism, in which case, why would they spend all that effort getting here, and then conspire with governments, and not fulfill their the objectives?

Every twist and turn opens an unresolved question, ....

Certainly is, BUT, the purpose of exploration, is surely to deliver some news,..If your intelligent ET has a lifespan measured in millenia, then that will not be a problem.
If your intelligent ET has no cultural or biological interest in news, but actually likes olds, then that will not be a problem. [And if you really force me I can construct a reasoned and reasonable argument as to why interest in olds would be an evolutionary advantage.]

or return some benefit to the faring organisation within it's lifespan? ....Again, lifepsans may be very different. Aristocrats in England used to send their children of on the Grand Tour of Europe to benefit their offspring, not to benefit themselves. (Remember they had never heard of the Selfish Gene.)

Unless the community in question has discovered limitless, free energy, and wants to share this to avert cataclsym on other planets, and it is driven purely through altruism, in which case, why would they spend all that effort getting here,....It may not be much effort. To travel to the Americas when colonisation began cost the equivalent of $250,000, took months, and a large proportion of those going died on en route.
Today, you can fly to New York for a long weekend, take in a Broadway Show, do some shopping in Saks, and be back in time for the Tuesday edition of Coronation Street. Don't assume it isn't analogous for ET.
and then conspire with governments, and not fulfill their the objectives?...Ah, well. I don't think they are here. I don't think they are conspiring with governments.
I just think using - "the universe is big, and it takes a long time to get anywhere" - as an argument against UFOs, is fundamentally flawed.

ET is out there. :) (Just subscribing, for now.)

If your intelligent ET has a lifespan measured in millennia, then that will not be a problem.

Einstein's Relativity demands that ET's lifespan must be huge to us - to get here in a timely fashion ET has to approach the speed of light. By doing so, ET's ship effectively becomes a time machine. His 'travel week' might look more like 5,000 years to us. So, even without speculating on million-year life spans, if ET is merely a 'frequent flyer' he'll live for hundreds of thousands or even millions of our years, just to commute between point A and point B.


why would they spend all that effort getting here, and then conspire with governments, and not fulfill their the objectives?

If one supposes they came here to talk to us, this then demands there be something to talk about. If they've come here and not talked to us, then it follows ET thinks there is no reason to talk to us. No 'conspiracy' necessary. Anything we'd ever say to ET would be an attempt by us, in some guise, for ET to improve our situation materially or technologically. In exchange, we can offer ET precisely: jack squat. Not really an attractive deal for ET then, is it?

'Not fulfilling their objectives' implies that ET's intention in coming here is some form of interaction with us; I must suggest that it has to be painfully obvious that, if he's here, his motives are plainly otherwise.

'Not fulfilling their objectives' [/I] implies that ET's intention in coming here is some form of interaction with us; I must suggest that it has to be painfully obvious that, if he's here, his motives are plainly otherwise.

Well, if they are coming, I agree with your here. I think they would be more likely to just observe, and gather information, BUT there are those that support the 'abducted and anally probed' mythos, which is far from mere observation.

I doubt that a race with the technology to concquer the immense distances involved, would crash their vehicles, not have excellent stealth capabilities, need to conspire with a puny world power, or need to capture and probe humans.

So, yes, their motives would be 'otherwise', but as the myth merchants try and sell us otherwise, they need to come up with some reasons. The cop out oft used here is that aliens, being alien, think differently, and we could not undersyand their motives, but that is ridiculous, as life is about controlling and utilising resources. All animals have territory, and therefore, an alien race exploring space would have a recognisable reason for doing do, even it were mere observation, to something more economic.

I came up with a reasoning this morning why perhaps if there were aliens they might conspire. (Please realise that my point being raised here is just speculation and of course a great dose of fiction)

Simply if an alien race is move advanced and they developed radio technology 500 years prior to us, it causes a problem. The problem is a mixture of economics and intellectual property. For instance we say Marconi created radio, this means that an entire company has been running for years on the stock market and that the entire planet has been filled with radio technology. We assume Marconi had rights to the intellectual property since he was the one that filed the patent.

An alien planet light years away might have discovered radio technology sooner, which means that they might have some alien that claims to have the intellectual property for radio technology centuries previously. Suggestibly if such an alien corporation could prove their technology existed centuries before Marconi's it might cause alsort of legislative concerns and problems.

Afterall if it was ruled in the favour of those that had the technology first, the company in question would lose share value quickly while some alien corporations value would climb.

Admittedly I don't believe the world would rule in their favour, however would it mean compensation. For instance if we said "You had plenty of time to file your patent", but at that time 500 years ago we didn't have a patent office, or their ability to travel light years in distance, would it mean compensation for their loss?

(remember this is a fictional, but yet potential problem)

Then Stryder, what is need is the 'Cosmic Anti Trust Organisation' to come and save us!

I see all you intellectual SPOOKS are back on this thread.
Looking for what explanations, why if the aliens where like
you boys/girls with no belief then like you lot they would
not go looking.
You got to believe in what you look for or there is no need
to search.
Scientists will find alien lifeforms some bizarre lifeforms and
some with advanced intelligence then we will have to ask
ourselfs are they friend or foe?

But for you spooks life may always be empty holding on to
your outdated Belief.

Anyway never heard what you SPOOKS believe in, could
you let the rest of know so we can get a right GOOD LAUGH.

Your belief Please

http://lsufos.com

Our beliefs have been clearly stated. Do you have problems reading? We know you have problems writing. The Scottish Executive have a number of programs available for those with learning difficulties. You should seriously consider taking advantage of one or more of them.

Are you actually capable of responding intelligibly to any of the points raised in this thread? If not then, ignorant child, please bugger off.

Now my wee dug is back, still foul-mouthed as ever.

Isufos is back, ignorant as ever.

He's not even bright enough to engage in pseudo reasoned argument. Come back Happeh - all is forgiven.

Is that who that is? Happeh? If so, come back, Happeh, come back.

Ophiolite
Slow so it is okay for you to use your foul-mouth and that is okay.
Ignorant you are in your empty world sad case or what another
with nothing better to do in life other than post on message boards
all day and night.

Get a life

Simply if an alien race is move advanced and they developed radio technology 500 years prior to us, it causes a problem. The problem is a mixture of economics and intellectual property. For instance we say Marconi created radio, this means that an entire company has been running for years on the stock market and that the entire planet has been filled with radio technology. We assume Marconi had rights to the intellectual property since he was the one that filed the patent.

The main problem with commerce theories is that it's difficult to see what we've got to offer that's worth anything to our penile-challenged little green buddies. If ET got here, then he has the ability to harness truly rediculous outbursts of energy, and he has access to interstellar resources some billion or trillion times greater than what we have here on Earth. His ability to produce gadgets will be virtually unlimited. His technology will leave ours in the dust; so unless Earth art is a galactic hot commodity, then we've got nothing ET wants or needs.

If this musing is true, then copyright infringements become irrelevent because we've got no meaningful method by which to compensate ET for violation of his alleged patent. ET therefore can't be too worked up about it, because he knows there's no way to 'collect payment' from us that holds any interest for him.

The cop out oft used here is that aliens, being alien, think differently, and we could not undersyand their motives, but that is ridiculous, as life is about controlling and utilising resources. All animals have territory, and therefore, an alien race exploring space would have a recognisable reason...

It's a subject where we all have to cut each other slack because no one really knows anything. I too tend to reject the airy-fairy theories that try to square the circle and make ET a shy but well meaning neighbour hear to help humanity. Blah, blah, blah. ET can solve the engineering problems inherent to pumping the energy output of a star through his ship, but he can't figure out 'See Spot Run'? Please.

ET presumably arose via natural selection on some far off world in the distant past. Hence his psychology, although almost certainly subjected to intensive genetic or biological engineering, will still conform to the evolutionary laws of nature known to dictate the actions of all life forms on Earth. ET puts his pants on just like the rest of us; one leg at a time.

So, yes, their motives would be 'otherwise', but as the myth merchants try and sell us otherwise, they need to come up with some reasons <that ET is here>

Yes, but these 'myth merchants' as you call them don't tend to bowl me over with their powers of deductive reasoning. Therefore I would tend to reject as false any conclusions based solely upon their failure to introduce a plausible scenario for why ET is here.

I'll give it a shot. Variables:

1) ET is held hostage to the laws of physics.
2) ET is hostile. Not "run a meteor through Earth at .9c" hostile, more like "1950's Cold War standoffish x 100" hostile. He doesn't trust us, nor ever will.
3) ET's nearest major base is, say, 3,000 light years from here.

All three of these are speculative, but I do think you'll grant that they aren't unreasonable or unlikely? ET might be a brainaic, but he's not a magician. He can't travel faster than the speed of light because nothing can. He can't trust us, because treachery and violence are inherent, hard-wired traits rooted in our basic biology - and ET knows our brain chemistry backwards and forwards. The odds do not favour his base of operations just happening to be right on top of us, do they? The galaxy is over 100,000 light years across.

I propose that ET will come here because he is a slave of Einstein's Relativity and is motivated by the security dilemma posed by the fact that we exist. ET cannot - ever - move faster than 1 light year per year. Therefore, if ET stays home at his speculated closest major base, he cannot arrive at our doorstep any time he feels like it; he will take 3,000 years to get here, and not a moment less.

Last time I checked, we've gone from crude steam power to putting probes out of the solar system in less than 200 years.

So my riddle is this: Within the context of the three variables I propose above, how does ET protect his security interests unless he comes here before our technological base explodes exponentially? His closest settled planet is a hypothetical 3,000 years away. But he knows we might not need 3,000 years to figure things out and escape our Solar System. And then, how the hell is he going to put the cork back in the bottle when we have 200 billion suns in this galaxy alone to hide amongst?

The assymetry that I propose is the limitation on ET's movement imposed by the speed of light juxtaposed to our speed of technical progress. ET has to be here now because our technology is moving ahead far, far faster than ET can move between the stars. If he's just now grabbing his coat and running for his Foo Fighter 3,000 years from here, then ET just gave us 3,000 unsupervised years to figure out a star drive and blow this joint, did he not?

Ophiolite
Slow so it is okay for you to use your foul-mouth and that is okay.
Ignorant you are in your empty world sad case or what another
with nothing better to do in life other than post on message boards
all day and night.

Get a life

And what are you doing exactly? If not posting on a message board?

The sad thing is, you are wasting your life on this fallcious UFO stuff.
The rest of us have spent our time learning a few facts. Our facts pose problems for your beliefs. So it's you, that's the sad case. You _need_ UFOs to exist to augment your sad existence.

Ignorant you are in your empty world

My god, this kid talks like Yoda. That is really sad.

The term "belief" refers to a mental acceptance of the truth of some proposition, idea, statement, or fact. When a person believes X, this means that they accept the truth of X. It does not mean, however, that they are convinced of this truth with absolute certainty - belief might go only a little ways, or it might be absolute.

Atheists, I WOULD NOT LIKE TO BE ONE, AND COME ON TO MESSAGE BOARDS TRYING TO PUT A OUTDATED BELIEF UPON OTHERS.

SAD GETS, GET A LIFE,GROW UP,OR YOU WILL NEVER FIND ANYTHING POSTING YOUR LIFE AWAY.

Hey, lsufos, did you cut and paste the first sentence from somewhere, because it's just not your style. IE, it makes sense and there are none of your usual horrendous errors.

Do you also believe in god, lsufos? In which case, which god(s)? Some? All?

You must have no one to talk with, as before i must not reply to an asshole.

IGNORE the one with no belief

SAD GETS.

Oh, the pitiful sad irony.

And the band played on and on, untill all the Atheists have there dimwit say.

Did you hear the one about the two Atheists who never went out
they never believed anything existed.

SAD GETS

Lets see:
IF A = B then C

Skeptics don't believe in Gods and Skeptics don't believe in Alien conspiracies with governments, then obviously those that don't believe in gods, don't believe in alien conspiracies.

You could suggest:
Those that believe in gods therefore believe in alien conspiracies.

The basic reason I post all of these is just how ludicrous the fundemental logic of lsufos is flawed. Since both previous statement as in error.

LSUFOS, you have nothing to say, even when I ask you questions. You really must be some retard, to have been recruited into this god/UFO cult belief system.

You keep on with this line 'we have no life', when it's you living in a fantasy world!

So, I'll ask again, which god(s) do you believe in?

Isufo's stole, quite shamelessly the above quote which he failed to actually quote.

http://atheism.about.com/library/glossary/general/bldef_belief.htm

Just another woo-woo with a closed mind, open only to his limited set of beliefs. He'll not consider the other possibilities out there.

As a side, it would be difficult to demonstrate the assertion that those who believe in gods therefore believe in alien conspiracies or even aliens, since many who believe in religious mythology have a built-in explanation for the unexplained and paranormal: such as satan, demons, angels, and other gods of Christianity as well as analogs that exist in other religions.

There are a few, however, that obviously believe in both gods and aliens and, subsequently, find the need to justify how they can co-exist. New mythologies are created that identify angels and demons as alien deities, etc.

Isufo's stole, quite shamelessly the above quote which he failed to actually quote.

http://atheism.about.com/library/glossary/general/bldef_belief.htm



Well, it stood out a mile as being lifted from somewhere, for the reasons already stated.

Shame on lsufos for plagiarism.

So my riddle is this: Within the context of the three variables I propose above, how does ET protect his security interests unless he comes here before our technological base explodes exponentially? His closest settled planet is a hypothetical 3,000 years away. But he knows we might not need 3,000 years to figure things out and escape our Solar System. And then, how the hell is he going to put the cork back in the bottle when we have 200 billion suns in this galaxy alone to hide amongst?

The assymetry that I propose is the limitation on ET's movement imposed by the speed of light juxtaposed to our speed of technical progress. ET has to be here now because our technology is moving ahead far, far faster than ET can move between the stars. If he's just now grabbing his coat and running for his Foo Fighter 3,000 years from here, then ET just gave us 3,000 unsupervised years to figure out a star drive and blow this joint, did he not?It's better for us than that, even.

One assumption that has to be made as well is that we would only be detected through our transmissions - e.g. radio.
Since this only really began 100 years ago, it will take the ETs another 2,900 years to receive the first of our transmissions, and then another 3,000 years to reach us should they get in their patented Light-speed ships.
So a mere 5,900 years.

And that's assuming that they're within 3,000 LY of Earth.

If they're only 50 LY away then we should expect them to arrive in the next few years!! :eek:

"Don't panic, Mr. Mainwaring! Don't panic!"

So, I'll ask again, which god(s) do you believe in?

NONE

Isufo's stole, quite shamelessly the above quote which he failed to actually quote.

The term "belief" refers to a mental acceptance of the truth of some proposition, idea, statement, or fact. When a person believes X, this means that they accept the truth of X. It does not mean, however, that they are convinced of this truth with absolute certainty - belief might go only a little ways, or it might be absolute.

NEVER USED Quick reply
Uesd word, sorry about your theory.
Skinwalker,
Like the rest FULL OF DOGMA OR IS IT DOG SHIT

Telescope bid to spot alien beams

But like i said you got to belief to go looking
like these scientists.

NOTHING LIKE YOU BOYS/GIRLS WITH NO BELIEF IN ANYTHING YOU WOULD NOT LOOK.

Telescope bid to spot alien beams

A new optical telescope designed solely to detect light signals from alien civilisations has opened for work at an observatory in Harvard, US.
It will conduct a year-round survey, scanning all of the Milky Way galaxy visible in the Northern Hemisphere.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4907308.stm

Atheists, I WOULD NOT LIKE TO BE ONE, AND COME ON TO MESSAGE BOARDS TRYING TO PUT A OUTDATED BELIEF UPON OTHERS.

SAD GETS, GET A LIFE,GROW UP,OR YOU WILL NEVER FIND ANYTHING POSTING YOUR LIFE AWAY.

I think it should be agreed upon that members of sciforums post in English. Am I the only one that is having difficulty understanding what isufos is saying? It would seem that he is not a native English speaker... perhaps Italian is his native language?

Sorry, isufos, but your posts are more gibberish than even duendy's are.

SW, I don't mind the poor English as much when it appears that the poster has a clue. In Isufos' case (Happeh?), there isn't even a hint of a clue.

UFO means "Unidentified Flying Object". That means that if it's in the air, and you can't identify it, it's a UFO. It doesn't matter what the object actually is. UFO's are, in fact, unidentified flying objects. I don't care what they are, whether they be alien spacecraft, government experimental aircraft, time machines, interdimensional craft, angels, remote control toys, bees, etc... it doesn't matter.

As far as the claim that alien life doesn't exist, that's patently ridiculous. Statistically speaking it is extremely likely that living things that do not live on the Earth exist. Whether they are intelligent or not is irrelevant. I don't care, and neither should you, not until we get a signal from another star or the mothership lands in Central Park for all the world to see. That's my two cents.

I'd say it does indeed matter if aliens are visiting Earth in their spaceships, however they are not, or so we can deduce from available information.

skinwalker,
You should have fixed it.

It was there for you and your own gibberish.

GET A LIFE,GET OUT MORE, ITS REAL LIFE OUTHERE

One assumption that has to be made as well is that we would only be detected through our transmissions - e.g. radio.

No, your assumption is unsustainable. The galaxy is 12 billion years old, so there is no reason whatever to assume that ET can't also be billions of years old. That's more than enough time for him to have searched the stars and found us.


ET has to be here now because our technology is moving ahead far, far faster than ET can move between the stars.

Well, you guys asked for a rock-solid reason why ET wants to be here. There it is.

Comments please.

So, I'll ask again, which god(s) do you believe in?

NONE

So what was the 'atheist' crap all about?

Atheists, I WOULD NOT LIKE TO BE ONE

No, I really don't think it matters if aliens are visiting the Earth in their spaceships unless they are interfereing in our affairs in a significant manner. If they are visiting us then it is obviously just for observation, so it doesn't matter. I don't think they are, however, because the evidence is little more than slightly intriguing and not conclusive, and that I can't think of a good reason why they should be interested on large scale observation is a good enough counterargument. Also, I have become extremely annoyed at the whole "aliens are super human and they have been around for billions of years longer than human beings because they are semi-divine and somehow beyonds all human comprehension and there is no limit to their great powers" attitude. It really pisses me off and my participation in this thread could have something to do with my rejection of the concept. The assumption that all alien civilizations are more "advanced" than human civilization is also ludicrous. In fact, the very idea of advancement of civilizations is angering because it removes the development of societies from adaptation and places them into some kind arbitrary progression of history which doesn't exist. Maybe I just shouldn't post in the Pseudoscience section because it only illicits rants from me.

No, that is in fact what the pseudoscience section is for: Rants.

ANd if aliens are here, then that changes quite a lot of things. They are very likely to have some advanced technology which we could benefit from. If they are here they should be contacted, however THEY ARE NOT HERE.

And Isufos, what does it matter whether anyone is atheist or not? Surely the real issues here are
1)Your inability to type coherent sentences to effectively convey your argument.
2)Your total lack of evidence for your theories.

ANd if aliens are here, then that changes quite a lot of things. They are very likely to have some advanced technology which we could benefit from.

Yeah, like a space bus to get me off this crazy rock.

Some one call.

Do you lot never get any work done,
Did you know your Employer, has the right to look at your computer to see where you been surfing talking piss on the internet.
Or more like you sit on your fat arse, hoping your right that there is nothing but you and a few sad sick arseholes who have nothing to believe in.
Just nothing your belief is outdated, do not go out stay indoors looking everthing is not real do you ever get anything done.
Is that some one telling you to get off the computer thought i heard a call.

GET A LIFE.

Man... you have issues.

http://www.angermanagementseminar.com/

:m: Peace.

Or more like you sit on your fat arse, hoping your right that there is nothing but you and a few sad sick arseholes who have nothing to believe in.

Why would we need anything to believe in and have you even bothered to note that your posts outnumber most of those that have posted in this thread? Perhaps your criticisms are self-reflective?

Just nothing your belief is outdated,

Not that that sentance was syntactically correct, but if I understand correctly, what beliefs, specifically, are you referring to and how do you support that they are "outdated?" Indeed, many would say it is the space alien=ufo belief that is out-dated, particularly since the world's major UFO groups have all but disbanded or dissolved. In other words, people are giving up on the "out-dated" belief of space aliens among us.

But for an anthropology major like me, who studies extreme beliefs and may even do my Master's Thesis on a related subject, I'm at work. :cool:

Is that some one telling you to get off the computer thought i heard a call.

GET A LIFE.

Something about pots, kettles, and several shades of black come to mind.....