why do we always here that a christian converted to isalm but dont hear that a moslim changed to be a christian?
my answer will be that islam is the most logic and complete religion

Originally posted by mohamed
why do we always here that a christian converted to isalm but dont hear that a moslim changed to be a christian?
my answer will be that islam is the most logic and complete religion

How about if, the concept of "we always hear" (note 'hear' misspelled lol) is one that is so open to interpretation and manipulation it is utter fucked up stupidity to consider using it in an argument? And how about if, you bring up some stats to back that up?

do i have to consider it is ur answer for my q. ?

How about if we consider my post to be a request for you to either back up your statement with evidence (which it has none) or concede that it was an ill placed topic? And badly presented?

u can ignore it and dont send to it
easy . isnt it

I thought I might save you the embarrassment later, but oh well. Fine with me.

What kind of discussion did you really intend to start with this topic??? It's not open to discussion at all. It is a random assertion. And misspelled.

ok i know that i miss spelled but i think the surface is not imp. but what is important is the mean that it is carry , and i dont think u r stupid to get my mean of this q. ?

Originally posted by mohamed
why do we always here that a christian converted to isalm but dont hear that a moslim changed to be a christian?
my answer will be that islam is the most logic and complete religion

Or the much more LOGICAL explain which is that if you are a Christian in a Muslim nation you will probably be killed, either by the government or by the fanatics lurking around.

u look u didnt got my q. well?
if any christian know this ruddah i think he will return from becoming amoslim but altough he or she know this ruddah and become a moslim this make a strong prove that they r persuated of islam

why do we always here that a christian converted to isalm but dont hear that a moslim changed to be a christian?
my answer will be that islam is the most logic and complete religion

If you're going to try to create some argument as to why your religion or beleif system is better than others please come up with a better argument than this. Othwise, don't say anything.

andrew,
in egypt live about 6 millions christian in about 65 moslim and they living together in peace

Ha. Egypt is a pretty dangerous area to travel in. I'm certain that the Christians in that nation are concerned for their safety. Remember that Mohamad Atta was from that nation.

Note also that Islam is a heavily missionaric (?) religion, even mroe so than the already heavy Xtianity. Hordes of Muslim armies would raze India and such to convert people.

Perhaps the perseverance and the investment in proselytization would be paying off like that.

about kosheh.
it was a fight between two families in upper egyptfor a special causes.
i will ask u or i am inviting u to come to egypt to see how we living together in peace not only egypt but also lebanon , jordan, syria. touniessia morocco ......
so how about moslims in bosna or the whole arabs,moslims or christain in america after 11th sep.
what about palastenian and sheshan and india too
do u think moslims live in peaces there

I know a couple of guys who have converted from islam to christianity so it does happen

good!!!
2 guys ,wow

Originally posted by Blackstone
didint you hear about the al kosheh tragedy? where 21 chistians were teared into 2 halves by muslim zealots ? I don't believe that at all. It would have to be 42 halves. Unless christians synthesize when they're "teared."

nPA:

<i>Remember that Mohamad Atta was from that nation.</i>

Yeah, and Timothy McVeigh was from the United States.

Originally posted by mohamed
good!!!
2 guys ,wow

i didnt say TWO i said a couple, and thanx so much for the sarcasim!

Originally posted by mohamed
why do we always here that a christian converted to isalm but dont hear that a moslim changed to be a christian?
my answer will be that islam is the most logic and complete religion

Greetings Mohamed -

For several years during the 1980's, my younger brother was a Christian Missionary to Palestine and the West Bank, and for quite some time lived with Palestinian 'Christians' in Ramallah. Part of his missions work was to assist in rebulilding part of the Bethlehem 'Christian' Bible College, located in Bethlehem. I'll give you now ONE GUESS as to WHY it had to be rebuilt? That's right, it was partly DESTROYED by militant Muslims whom went on a spree of violence and destruction against Palestinians who were professing Christians.

Now, to answer your question, there are and will continue to be many whom convert from Islam to Christianity. The reason we DO NOT hear much about it is indeed because there is fear in the converts, and good reason for it! Upon his permanent return to the U.S., many Christian Palestinians followed my brother here and have since become citizens of the U.S. Only then, were they able to openly practice their faith without the fear of "disappearing without a trace," or "having their homes destroyed" or "losing their employment" as had all previously happened to many of their Christian friends and relatives in Palestine, Israel, Jordan and Syria.

Also, the Bible warned that there will be those who leave the faith (Christianity) follow others, and here's what it has to say:

"The Spirit clearly says that in latter times some will abandon the Faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, who's consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry (i.e. Catholicism) and order them to abstain from certain foods (i.e. Islam, Judaism, Catholicism, Hinduism), which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. 1 Timothy 4:1-3. These verses were written some 500+ years before the birth of Mohammed. Now, you can claim the appearant accuracy of this written revelation to be mere coincidence...but I claim it be fulfilled prophecy.

Lastly, why do some professing 'Christians' convert to Islam? Because in all probability, they are NOT truly "saved by the blood of Jesus Christ, born-again" Christians, making them psuedo-Christians to begin with. I can't say that with great certainty, but it's a very safe assumption to make.

In His Name -

~ Disciple of Jesus

Originally posted by mohamed
why do we always here that a christian converted to isalm but dont hear that a moslim changed to be a christian?
my answer will be that islam is the most logic and complete religion
What about those millions of moderate Muslims who have reconsidered their faith after the heinous task of Sep 11 perpetrated by some devout and true Muslims?

Many moderate Muslim-origin Americans even feel tremendously ashamed and embarrassed to identify themselves as Muslims. Many moderate or not so strong believers of Muslim descent are trying to hide their identity in the west, or many even declared that they are no longer Muslims.

The action of 9-11 by the Arab terrorists in NYC and Washington DC have exposed the true colour of Islam. Truth has a peculiar way of emerging out from the sealed bag.

No amount of testimonials from all the Mullahs of the world could undo the damage done by those 19 men from Arabic speaking nations of the world. And that’s for sure!

Christians have gone on their rampages.
ex) The Crusades

So have Muslims.
ex) The Muslim hordes that ran across Asia. 9 11. Bali. Etc.

So have Jews.
ex) The rampages described in the bible.

So have Hindus.
ex) Followers of Shiva and Vishnu slaughtering each other. Militant Hindus going after Muslims, and vice versa,

So have atheists, at least on a legal level. This was senseless legal rampaging.
ex) What I'm talking about is the stupid atheist who tried to get "Under God" out of the Pledge of A.

Any one group accusing another of being "terrorists" or "oppressors" seems stupid when illuminated with the twisted light of history.

Originally posted by Zero
Any one group accusing another of being "terrorists" or "oppressors" seems stupid when illuminated with the twisted light of history.
In light of your statement does the Sep 11 attack still seem stupid to you?

So? It's just been a while. What do you say to crusaders barging into someone else's land and slaughtering Muslims for the sake of some piece of cursed land? You just think 9 11 is worse because you weren't around during the crusades.

So have atheists, at least on a legal level. This was senseless legal rampaging.

that's hardly comparable to all the killing done in the name of various religions.

Listen. How many people died in the WTC? Not as many as the deaths due to the Inquisition or the Crusades. At least the people from the WTC got compensation, a hell of a lot of publicity, and a big deranged supergiant bumbling across the ocean to get revenge for them.

The victims of the Inquisition weren't so lucky, and were more numerous.

Not to mention the hordes of Jews who died in Medieval Europe. Noblemen would kill them just for their money.

What's more evil about 9 11 than the past atrocities done by Christians? This could work for any religion.

Originally posted by Zero
Listen. How many people died in the WTC? Not as many as the deaths due to the Inquisition or the Crusades. At least the people from the WTC got compensation, a hell of a lot of publicity, and a big deranged supergiant bumbling across the ocean to get revenge for them.

I think that is a terrible and disrespectful thing to say about the people who were maimed from this tragedy.

Terrible and disrespectful thing to say to the people tortured under the Inquisition. Suck it!

http://www.xecu.net/goofyfish/__public/trollsign02.gif

Tea-time already Zero. I promise not to feed you anymore :D

mohammed...

so what if ppl converted to islam or converted to any other religion... numbers dont really make your religion better or your argument stronger... i could argue that there are thousands of muslims who dont really believe in islam yet they can't publicly state their disbelief cuz of social repercussions.. not to mention ruddah...

i believe everyone should have freedom to believe what they want.. not be forced to believe...

in this age we have to come to realize that unity is a very important ideal.... that is why racism, sexism, ageism etc etc are considered to be detrimental... yet religious followers keep bashin each other claimin to be better than this and that... none of you paint a pretty picture...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Zero
[B]Christians have gone on their rampages.
ex) The Crusades

Greetings Zero -

For what it's worth, those weren't Christians who were responsible for the "Crusades", it was rahter the heretical Papacy and Catholicism (pseudo-Christianity) that was. If you know the history, when the Protestent 'reformation period' (led by Martin Luther) occured, Catholicism persecuted Christianity mercilessly, killing multitudes of Christians during that time!

In His Name -

~ Disciple of Jesus

So you're saying Catholicism isn't Christianity? Now we all know how much YOU know. Thanks for displaying yourself as stupid.

Originally posted by Zero
So you're saying Catholicism isn't Christianity? Now we all know how much YOU know. Thanks for displaying yourself as stupid.

Hello Again Zero -

Roman Catholicism does not practice Christianity...it practices Roman Catholicism. It claims Christianity yet does not follow nor teach the doctrine of Jesus Christ. Rather, it follows and teaches the doctrine of Catholicism. The Bible itself warns of it. If you'd like, read 1 Timothy 4:1-3. Read the remaining passages in 1 Timothy 4, if you'd like to know why it is I share this warning with others.

I was born and raised in a strict Catholic household, attended Catechism class every Saturday, Catholic Mass every Sunday, received all the Catholic Sacrements, had 3 uncles who were Catholic priests and 2 aunts that were Catholic nuns. I was a member of the Knights of Columbus - Catholic Men's Fraternity and I practiced Catholicism myself for 5 years after becoming an adult. Lastly, over the past 17 years, I have taken opportunity to study the history and theology of Roman Catholicism. Believe me Zero, I know nearly as much as anyone can possibly know about Catholicism.

As for my being stupid...I respect your opinion, but really I'm not.

In His Name -

~ Disciple of Jesus Christ

one of the biggest differences that I"m aware of (there may be more) between 'christians' and 'catholics' is that christians believe they are 'saved' by believing in Jesus and following him, while catholics seem to believe that one must follow certain steps and do certain things to get into heaven. that makes them quite different

Ok so you're not only stupid, but also bigoted. You claim a sect of Christianity is not Christian. Do you hate the RCC or something?

Look, I thought the Protestants split away from the RCC. Correct me if I am mistaken. So let's see, the RCC was all a trick by Satan to mislead us right? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Disciple of Jesus
Zero,

I know nearly as much as anyone can possibly know about Catholicism.


....and you never realised you were a Christian :confused:

Yes, you are a fool.

A person who believes in Christ is a Christian.

I converted out Islam. Thankfully to logical atheism and not to that ritualistic dogmatism called Christianity

Originally posted by Zero
Ok so you're not only stupid, but also bigoted. You claim a sect of Christianity is not Christian. Do you hate the RCC or something?

Look, I thought the Protestants split away from the RCC. Correct me if I am mistaken. So let's see, the RCC was all a trick by Satan to mislead us right? :rolleyes:

Hello Again Zero -

OK, OK...so I'm stupid! Bigoted, No. I do not hate the RCC, I do however hate the fact that it claims to be "a Christian sect" as you put it yet doesn't practice Biblically sound, God honoring Christianity. Based on its very doctrine, the RCC routinely practices blasphemy and idolatry...Catholicism, period.

Study Martin Luther to learn of the reformation (Protestant movement) and you'll see that I merely echo his words. He must have been stupid and bigoted too.

If you've read 1 Timothy 4:1-3, what did it say? To the discerning Christian it says a lot...and sends a warning. Stupid or not, I'll heed the warning and continue to respect your opinion.

In His Name -

~ Disciple of Jesus

Originally posted by Vienna
....and you never realised you were a Christian :confused:

Yes, you are a fool.

A person who believes in Christ is a Christian.

Greetings Vienna -

Don't be confused... this fool never realized he was a Christian because he didn't practice Christianity. Rather, he foolishly practiced the teachings of Catholicism. Big difference.

Lastly, a Christian is a person who believes in Jesus Christ, then follows His example and teachings (as taught by He and His original disciples). The simple fact that Roman Catholicism has viewed their Popes as being intermediaries between God and man, disqualifies it from any claim of being a 'Christian' religion. This is heresy and blasphemy. FYI - Did you know that Pope John Paul the II has claimed himself to be "the VICAR of CHRIST"? Look this up, study it and then tell me if Catholicism is Christianity...or just Catholicism.

In His Name -

~ Disciple of Jesus

---Lastly, a Christian is a person who believes in Jesus Christ, then follows His example and teachings (as taught by He and His original disciples).---

did Jesus meant for so many different strains of christianity to emerge outta his word? if not, that means that all these sects are false and have been created so that they can practise a particular part which is feasible to them.... im not defendin the RCC... i think its a buncha bull also... but trynna prove one sect over the other is just a useless task...

The sects were created because of differing opinions and interpretations of His Word......it is likely that none of them are completely correct in everything, but they all follow the basic, God is God and Jesus died for our sins therefore they are not all completely false!

Originally posted by New Life
..., God is God and Jesus died for our sins therefore they are not all completely false! Unless, of course, it's a fairy-tale, conflated during and after the end of the 2nd Temple Period, and carefully harmonized, redacted and interpolated over a period of 20 centuries.

Originally posted by Disciple of Jesus
Hello Again Zero -

OK, OK...so I'm stupid! Bigoted, No. I do not hate the RCC, I do however hate the fact that it claims to be "a Christian sect" as you put it yet doesn't practice Biblically sound, God honoring Christianity. Based on its very doctrine, the RCC routinely practices blasphemy and idolatry...Catholicism, period.

Study Martin Luther to learn of the reformation (Protestant movement) and you'll see that I merely echo his words. He must have been stupid and bigoted too.

If you've read 1 Timothy 4:1-3, what did it say? To the discerning Christian it says a lot...and sends a warning. Stupid or not, I'll heed the warning and continue to respect your opinion.

In His Name -

~ Disciple of Jesus

Fine, fine, fine. You yourself do not think of yourself as Xtian despite the fact you are. Kinda like the guy who got disowned by his family because he was gay. They say he's not a part of family but he is.

Hate hath blinded you. As for me, contempt for stupidity hath blinded me.

Originally posted by Disciple of Jesus
Greetings Vienna -

Don't be confused... this fool never realized he was a Christian because he didn't practice Christianity. Rather, he foolishly practiced the teachings of Catholicism. Big difference.

Lastly, a Christian is a person who believes in Jesus Christ, then follows His example and teachings (as taught by He and His original disciples). The simple fact that Roman Catholicism has viewed their Popes as being intermediaries between God and man, disqualifies it from any claim of being a 'Christian' religion. This is heresy and blasphemy. FYI - Did you know that Pope John Paul the II has claimed himself to be "the VICAR of CHRIST"? Look this up, study it and then tell me if Catholicism is Christianity...or just Catholicism.

In His Name -

~ Disciple of Jesus

DJ,
Thank you for your explanation.

As you say, you worship the Pope, not Christ.

Therefore you are not a Christian, and neither is the Pope.

The sects were created because of differing opinions and interpretations of His Word......it is likely that none of them are completely correct in everything, but they all follow the basic, God is God and Jesus died for our sins therefore they are not all completely false!

so what if they had different interpretations.. that gives you the right to start a new church? if i start twistin words around from the bible and garner a whole buncha ppl to believe in it, would that be acceptable as another so called sect? its pure rubbish... if ppl differed, they'd sort it out.. not go and start a new church... is there anywhere in the bible that allows for that? and believin in the basics doesn't mean that its ok to manipulate everything else... xtianity needs a lotta mopping...

Originally posted by sycoindian
so what if they had different interpretations.. that gives you the right to start a new church? if i start twistin words around from the bible and garner a whole buncha ppl to believe in it, would that be acceptable as another so called sect? its pure rubbish... if ppl differed, they'd sort it out.. not go and start a new church... is there anywhere in the bible that allows for that? and believin in the basics doesn't mean that its ok to manipulate everything else... xtianity needs a lotta mopping...

well the bible warns about the catholic church and things like that, it allows that there will be false teachings

well the bible warns about the catholic church and things like that, it allows that there will be false teachings

yet ppl have gone ahead and done what they thought was right despite the warnings.. and then they have the balls to tell everyone who doesn't believe in christ that they'll go to hell... or won't be saved... hypocritical aint it? just imagine this..

i believe in christ.. but i think this part of the bible translates differently to me... so im gonna go do what i want and you do what you want.. but we believe in christ so we'll be saved..

if you don't fail to see the stupidity in this, then i donno what to say.. claiming your version is better and startin a church is an absolute power trip...

According to the gospel, we are lost or saved by our inheritance. We inherited our sin from Adam, but we inherit freedom from Christ. Christ has adopted people who weren't part of God's original people by dying in their place. Therefore Christians, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, atheists, everybody can be saved...

BUT: Nobody can save themselves. There's the rub.

1 Col. 1
13For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, 14in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

No man, woman, religion or sect is better than the other, just like no tree is better than any other tree - but

Mark 4
19...the worries of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth and the desires for other things come in and choke the word, making it unfruitful. 20Others, like seed sown on good soil, hear the word, accept it, and produce a crop--thirty, sixty or even a hundred times what was sown."

Luke 6:44
Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers.

Galatians 5:22
... the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness.

Whoever bears such fruit, has part of Jesus. Whoever does not bear fruit, will be cut down. It isn't a church or a group or a government that is evil - it is people.

According to the gospel, we are lost or saved by our inheritance. We inherited our sin from Adam, but we inherit freedom from Christ. Christ has adopted people who weren't part of God's original people by dying in their place. Therefore Christians, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, atheists, everybody can be saved...

but that requires you to believe in christ and that he died for everyone... couplea things come to my mind when i hear this.

- im obligated to christ even tho' i am born centuries after he died
- its a black n white situation.. either believe or disbelieve..
- that is the only path to paradise
- i can sin as much as i want cuz in the end i'll be saved cuz i believed in christ

and you strive for paradise even tho' u have no clue what it is.. or even what is hell... polarized situation where you are compelled to choose one over the other.. no middle ground...

i find it quite foolish... not trynna offend anyone here... i could've led a life as perfectly as possible and yet id go to hell cuz i didnt believe that christ was a messenger of god... quite a non discriminatory god i have to say. :bugeye:

if i've made any errors plz enlighten me...

Originally posted by sycoindian
but that requires you to believe in christ and that he died for everyone... couplea things come to my mind when i hear this.

- im obligated to christ even tho' i am born centuries after he died
- its a black n white situation.. either believe or disbelieve..
- that is the only path to paradise
- i can sin as much as i want cuz in the end i'll be saved cuz i believed in christ

if i've made any errors plz enlighten me...

you're right this means that you either believe or disbelieve, and there is only one path to paradise.......however you are not correct in your last point...........it is not enough to believe in God and Jesus (satan 'believes' in them too), you must repent (turn away from) your sins in order to be saved...you hafta accept the gift of salvation from Christ, not just believe in it.


"Galatians 5:22
... the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness. "

you missed two, there are nine; love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.

Karla's conversion to Islam:

"How could you, an educated American woman convert to Islam - a religion that oppresses women?" - Blonde-haired blue-eyed, former Christian, Karla, explains how her theological dissatisfaction with the doctrine of Jesus as God and her discovery of the rights given to women in Islam led her to become a Muslim.

http://www.islamfortoday.com/karla.htm

I sure wish Karla wasn't the only internet source for converting to Islam, as I've seen this reference too many times lately, and frequency isn't making the validity any better.

Thanks NL :)

Sycoindian: It might seem a big leap from your present perspective. But as with anything else, belief happens in steps. First, you have to accept there is a God - otherwise whatever you do will be hypocritical and insincere. Then you realize that God is God over infinity as well as over time, therefore our whole existence is his from beginning to end. His plan and creation is running in the one point to another as He intends it to. It only started once and will only end once. Christ only died for everybody once, because if once wasn't sufficient, then why would two or three or even once a lifetime be?

It is through God's grace that we can be saved by our fellowship with Christ. Not everybody is smart enough to figure out how to live live perfectly. Or has the willpower to actually keep living that way. Many monks and priests have tried and failed. You simply can't do it by your own strength or wisdom.

1Cor.1:26
Brothers, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things -- and the things that are not -- to nullify the things that are, 29so that no one may boast before him. 30It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."

Belief is not so black and white. If you simplify it, yes maybe - but that is such a dangerous thing and it's called fundamentalism. Steps, remember. It's an education, it's a lifestyle. You might be sure about one thing and doubt another - but one thing remains certain - without God's justice we won't know what is right and wrong, and without Christ we can't know.

What middle ground do you propose? Maybe, if it's a better solution itmight be something I've missed. Knowledge makes discrimination and ignorance impossible. For people who don't know about God or Christ, there might be middle ground, but you know that you are guilty under God's laws, and that you are saved by Christ's death and your association with his death. This is only possible because Christ is the fullness of God. A living breathing metaphor for God.

But to know who Christ was, you have to read the Bible:

Col.1
15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
21Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[6] your evil behavior. 22But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation

Originally posted by sycoindian
yet ppl have gone ahead and done what they thought was right despite the warnings.. and then they have the balls to tell everyone who doesn't believe in christ that they'll go to hell... or won't be saved... hypocritical aint it? just imagine this..

i believe in christ.. but i think this part of the bible translates differently to me... so im gonna go do what i want and you do what you want.. but we believe in christ so we'll be saved..

if you don't fail to see the stupidity in this, then i donno what to say.. claiming your version is better and startin a church is an absolute power trip...

Well said, I agree with you sycoindian, It IS all about power.

Christianity is contradictive, hypocritical and very influential. Christianity and Islam are all about power, they strive to capture the minds of people and to control them, and to wipe out the unbelievers of their "God", either by conversion or physically.

Religion is the scourge of civilisation today.

To Vienna and sycoindian,

Excellect points and well put.

Originally posted by Vienna

Religion is the scourge of civilisation today.

maybe there should be a health warning on the outside of churches and mosques similar to sigarette packages:

Warning: religion can seriously harm your mental health and is a scourge of modern civilisation.

you must repent (turn away from) your sins in order to be saved

what if i sin and then repent and sin again and repent again? i think u'll have to elaborate more on the concept of repenting..

you hafta accept the gift of salvation from Christ, not just believe in it.

difference btw 'accepting' and 'believing'? plz elaborate...

there is only one path to paradise

okk... let us say that a tribe somewhere in the amazon had their own customs and practises and lived a very good life... they followed a lifestyle outlined in xtianity without knowin about it.. now would they not get into paradise even tho' they were isolated and ignorant about xtianity?

im havin a hard time acceptin the fact that you have to BELIEVE in christ to get into paradise (if it actually exists)... i look at it as 'bait'....

Jenyar.. i see what you are saying... as you so succintly put it, you have to believe in God first.. and then everything else follows... for that you'd have to prove God exists...

about christ... i still dont understand why i have to believe in him cuz he supposedly died for my sins... why the 'obligation'??

Warning: religion can seriously harm your mental health and is a scourge of modern civilisation.

I second that :D

*runs to kinkos to make a few signs and put em up at the mosque entrance at midnight*

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
you must repent (turn away from) your sins in order to be saved
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



what if i sin and then repent and sin again and repent again? i think u'll have to elaborate more on the concept of repenting..

* repenting means that you acknowledge that you have sinned, you ask for forgivness and then you strive to avoid that sin again (we often fail at this) and ask God (Holy Spirit) to help with that cause we cant do it on our own, we will never be totally free of sin, but we can sin a lot less



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
you hafta accept the gift of salvation from Christ, not just believe in it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



difference btw 'accepting' and 'believing'? plz elaborate...

* believing is saying 'yes I think that Jesus died for my sins'
accepting is more saying 'God I know i'm a sinner and Jesus died for my sins, please forgive me in His name and come live in my heart' (*basically the 'sinners prayer')..........sorry, thats not explained very well


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
there is only one path to paradise
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


okk... let us say that a tribe somewhere in the amazon had their own customs and practises and lived a very good life... they followed a lifestyle outlined in xtianity without knowin about it.. now would they not get into paradise even tho' they were isolated and ignorant about xtianity?

*the bible says that God has put a sense that there is a God into every creation so that no one has an excuse for saying they had no idea........also God manifests himself in places where there are no 'missionaries', the people may not know his name per sey, but they do know Him..........also thats why christians are called to go and tell everyone about the good news (the great commission)



im havin a hard time acceptin the fact that you have to BELIEVE in christ to get into paradise (if it actually exists)... i look at it as 'bait'....

* you hafta ACCEPT Christ to get in

Originally posted by sycoindian
Jenyar.. i see what you are saying... as you so succintly put it, you have to believe in God first.. and then everything else follows... for that you'd have to prove God exists...

about christ... i still dont understand why i have to believe in him cuz he supposedly died for my sins... why the 'obligation'??

What kind of proof? Scientific? That is asking me to prove that God is less than His creation, and as much as I'd like to, I can't.

As for Christ; it's mystery how God can be both Father and Son, but even you and me can be both in one lifetime, and so can God. Believing that Jesus is who he said he was - the Christ ("the anointed") - and that He did what everybody saw Him do - is the same as believing in God.

John 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.
...
10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God-- 13children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.
14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
...
17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only [begotten Son], who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

Jenyar...

What kind of proof? Scientific? That is asking me to prove that God is less than His creation, and as much as I'd like to, I can't.

i dont find it very convincing..

New Life...

you hafta ACCEPT Christ to get in

i still dont buy it..

thanx both of you for your replies..

Originally posted by sycoindian

New Life...


i still dont buy it [/B]

I know you dont, I was simply trying to make the distinction between believing and accepting for you so you have a better understanding

Answer because there is only one God and any diviation from Oneness to Two is a loss of the soul. In understanding True Christian concepts, the meaning is not so clear to many in Christianity as in Islam I suppose. One God, One Love, Allah hu' Akbar. :o

here is christians argue each other.

Originally posted by mohamed
here is christians argue each other.

its not so much arguing as discussin/debating to try and get a better understanding.........shouldn't we all be trying to understand things better?

the proplem is that christians dont have one concept

the proplem is that christians dont have one concept
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Do Muslims then,as far as I know there is Wharbisam Sunni & I can not remember the other,by the way sorry if I have misspelled any of the above.
They all say that they have the true path but are supposed to be different from one-another.

PS the Talliban also had there own interpretation.