This room is very quite...

I agree to disagree

But the fact that some can be so sure there is NO God, and some can be so sure there IS... Well, it tells me either can be wrong...

I have a feeling purple squid monkey and fuzzy pink elephant words will appear...

Lol, I agree

You don't understand; what atheists say isn't a claim in itself, it is a dependent claim!!!!!! It only has a derivative meaning!

Without theists, there would be no such thing as atheists!

Let's pretend that none of the population is theist. If that were so, no one would go around proclaiming to be an atheist, as no one would be claiming there was a god in the first place!

Atheism is not a claim; is it the rejection of a claim.

And no, theism is not a rejection of atheism.

Theists need a reason for adding an element (GOD) to the explanation of our world.

Atheists do not. Since an atheists belief (or lack thereof) is dependent, so is his argument! Atheism is a position that relies on theism, and so to does the atheist argument rely on the theists argument.

For an atheist to argue against god, the only thing he can do is discredit the theists argument and say "you have no good reason to add this complicating element to our explanation."

Answer me this one question, PLEASE: Do you understand what I'm talking about?

Good point Nebula! Things are goin to get ugly soon, and that's when I leave, lol

This is what I see and read..."blah blah blah blah, yada yada yada yada, listen to me ramble"...
No, I dont understand what your saying..

You make a claim "God dont exist", that claim needs evidence, therefore provide it, otherwise shut your hole...

If you dont make a claim that God dont exist, then your not an atheist, but is agnostic, you just dont know whether there is god or there is no god..

If you say "Im agnostic but is close to being an atheist", then that is another words for saying "I am not delusional but Im close to being delusional"...

Fact: Atheist ask proof of God, answer=healing, billions of testimonies and eyewitness, proven miracles scientifically investigated, CURRENTLY speaking, healing of incurable cancers science cant explain, prophesy fulfilled which atheist calls "super coincidence!". Historical fact of the bible. Intelligent designer, rich and wealthy people willing to give up their possesion for God, proving its conviction, all REAL EVIDENCE, etc.

Atheist reject proof bcuz they r stubborn, then they claim there is no God.You ask them proof of it & they have NONE, their choices &ignorance is their proof God is fake, so to b stupid & ignorant proves there’s no God

Many evidence supports God, zero evidence for atheist.

END....

notme2000;

I'm getting very frustrated...are these people INTENTIONALLY ignoring logic?

I'm not leaving until they change their mind or they change my mind. Or until I wear a hole through my keyboard, which probably won't take very long at the rate I'm going..

cheers.

Whatsupyall, what general area of the world were you brought up in, just curious...

Nebula, through my experience, we (athiest/agnostic) look like we're ignoring logic too... Theists and Athiests have different logic... No one would be so ignorant as to believe in something with no form of logic behind it. We just have different forms of logic than Whatsupyall... So to change their mind is next to impossible, because they can explain any "holes" in their logic with their own logic. This is called circular logic, but really, athiesm and science is circular logic too... Logic has to be circular to work.

Whatsupyall: There's an invisible being hovering in front of you, it has no substance so you hand swings through it if you try to feel for it, in fact there is no possible way for you to detect it. Now I'm telling you it is there, prove to me that it isn't.

You can't can you? And you probably think that I'm an idiot for even suggesting that it's there in the first place. Yet, how is this different from your proclamations of a non-detectable invisible superbeing living in the clouds?

Originally posted by DCLXVI
Whatsupyall: There's an invisible being hovering in front of you, it has no substance so you hand swings through it if you try to feel for it, in fact there is no possible way for you to detect it. Now I'm telling you it is there, prove to me that it isn't.

You can't can you? And you probably think that I'm an idiot for even suggesting that it's there in the first place.

If you make a claim of invisible being hovering around you, then you have the burden of proof of the invisible being claim. If you make a claim of toothfairy, then you have the burden of proof to prove your claim...If you make a claim God dont exist, then you have a burden of proof to your claim...If you make a claim God exist, then you have the burden of proof to your claim...THE BURDEN OF PROOF ARE TO THOSE WHO MAKE THE CLAIM...

Present to me evidence of "invisible thingy", then I will believe on it, otherwise it is just a myth, fake...And your right, you must be an idiot to suggest that its there to begin with in the first place if u cannot provide proof of its existence..For instance, substancial evidence is good, if you make a claim that this invisible thingy comes at night and tickels you, have you experienced it? If so, how many other peeps have gone through the same experience?

In summary, a claim can be proven FAKE by lack of evidence.....Period...




Originally posted by DCLXVI

Yet, how is this different from your proclamations of a non-detectable invisible superbeing living in the clouds?

Atheist will say "If God is not fake because u want proof he is, then prove to me tooth fairies/invisible thingy/unicorns don’t hover around earth every night".

Smart Christian will say "A claim can b proven fake by lack of evidence. What evidence do u have of tooth fairy? How many eyewitnesses? Millions? If tooth fairies plucked out a teeth, is there any scientific investigation done to it? If so can u show it? How many testified? Show me healing, supernatural/miracles documented in the name of tooth fairy. How many died for tooth fairy to verify its value? Thousands? Is there a Historical location of it? If so, where? Give up? Well tooth fairy because of its lack of evidence is fake. Period...

The universe is merely my brain in a vat, with an evil genius typing things into my brain, making up my experiences.

Prove me wrong, I dare you.

Originally posted by whatsupyall
If you make a claim of invisible being hovering around you, then you have the burden of proof of the invisible being claim. If you make a claim of toothfairy, then you have the burden of proof to prove your claim...If you make a claim God dont exist, then you have a burden of proof to your claim...If you make a claim God exist, then you have the burden of proof to your claim...THE BURDEN OF PROOF ARE TO THOSE WHO MAKE THE CLAIM...

Your line of reasoning astounds me. Yes, I did make a claim that an invisible creature was hovering around your head and I agree with you that the burden of proof should lie on my shoulders. Likewise the burden of proving your claim of god existing should lie on your shoulders.

Present to me evidence of "invisible thingy", then I will believe on it, otherwise it is just a myth, fake...

All I ask of you is to do the same for your claim.

And your right, you must be an idiot to suggest that its there to begin with in the first place if u cannot provide proof of its existence..

Unless you can come up with proof of the existence of god, I believe you just shot yourself in the leg.

For instance, substancial evidence is good, if you make a claim that this invisible thingy comes at night and tickels you, have you experienced it? If so, how many other peeps have gone through the same experience?

Oh, I could come up with a list of followers that would back me up in my claims, but in reality you'd just be taking their word for it instead of mine so unless I can come up with solid evidence to back my claims I have nothing to base them on.

In summary, a claim can be proven FAKE by lack of evidence.....Period...

BLAM, it must be hard remaining in a standing position with holes in both legs. I suggest you sit down if you haven't already.

Atheist will say "If God is not fake because u want proof he is, then prove to me tooth fairies/invisible thingy/unicorns don’t hover around earth every night".

No, an atheist would simply ask you to prove the existence of god. I doubt he would be interested in the toothfairy.

Smart Christian

Oxymoron?

will say "A claim can b proven fake by lack of evidence. What evidence do u have of tooth fairy? How many eyewitnesses? Millions? If tooth fairies plucked out a teeth, is there any scientific investigation done to it? If so can u show it?

Lets just say for the sake of argument that such a thing as a smart christian does exist, then that person would ask those same questions about his god.

How many testified?

Millions of parents world wide.

Show me healing, supernatural/miracles documented in the name of tooth fairy.

The toothfairy leaves money under pillows, it does not perform miracles. But I could find plenty of documented cases of kids finding money under their pillows after leaving a tooth there the previous night. Now ask yourself, does that prove the toothfairys existence?

How many died for tooth fairy to verify its value? Thousands?

The toothfairy does not need people to die to verify its value

Is there a Historical location of it? If so, where?

There have been documented cases of toothfairy activity all over the world.

Give up? Well tooth fairy because of its lack of evidence is fake. Period... [/B]

No evidence? What do you call the money left behind in the morning if it's not evidence?

(generalization)...


Indeed. A crime, it seems, not only atheists are guilty of...

Edit: That's strange, this was a reply to whatsupyall's post that has somehow ended up below this one. And I see that he has also taken the liberty to change it.

THE TOP 10 OF THE ATHEISM'S ARGUMENT AGAINST GOD, ALL QUOTED FROM THE WRITINGS OF ATHEISTS HERE....Summary of atheists argument, the outcome from all the debates...

1. Atheist says "To have faith means to believe in myths", so faith is illogic...(LOL, got brain?)

2. Atheist says "Nature is super duper LUCK! In other words "Chance"!", (no evidence supports this claim of "possibility")..

3. Atheists says "All christians are killers and perverts! Therefore there is no God!", (Are u ok?)...

4. Atheists says "The word "Knowing" means establishing, controlling, and Doing! Therefore if humans have freewill, then God cant be all knowing!! Because knowing something means contolling something!!", (just plain stupid).....

5. Atheists says "You have no proof of God!", (although tons of evidence are given)...

6. Atheists says "Theory means FACT! And needs no faith! Because theory is another word for PURE EVIDENCE!!", (just plain delusional)...

7. Atheists says "I am very smart!! And I know what Im talking about!!", (another false remark)....

8. Atheists says "I dont make a claim, you do, so prove your claim, otherwise God is a myth"...(Wait a minute, u said u dont make claim, but then said "God is a myth", isnt that a claim? Now do u have a proof of yur claim?).

9. Atheists says "Evolution contradicts God"...(When it doesnt, only 2 those who take the bible literally)...


And let the drums roll, for the best and the last comment atheists will say concerning God.........((((((((((drums rolling)))))))))))..

Well here it is...

10. Atheist says "Prove to me Giant purple squid monkeys, fuzzy pink elephant dont exist", (TENG DENG! This is the best of the best of atheism's argument against God, a IGNORANT and illogic pointless comment, is their best argument)...


HAVE YOU SEEN ANYTHING LOGIC ABOVE? HAVE YOU SEEN ANYTHING THAT IS "TRUTHFULL"? HAVE YOU SEEN ANYTHING "SCIENTIFIC" ABOVE? LOL, ASK ATHEIST AND THEY WILL SAY "YES, ALL THOSE MAKE SENSE"....LOL...

:bugeye:

Originally posted by DCLXVI
The toothfairy leaves money under pillows, it does not perform miracles. But I could find plenty of documented cases of kids finding money under their pillows after leaving a tooth there the previous night. Now ask yourself, does that prove the toothfairys existence?


HAS THIS BEEN DOCUMENTED? PLENTY OF DOCUMENTED CASES ABOUT REALITY OF TOTHFAIRIES? YOUR A COMPULSIVE LIAR...

HAVE ANYONE TESTIFIED TO THIS TRUTH? HOW MANY? MILLIONS? PROVIDE THIS "BASIC" EVIDENCE, OTHERWISE I HAVE NO REASON TO BELIEVE IT...AND DONT LIE TO MAKE A POINT....

Originally posted by DCLXVI

The toothfairy does not need people to die to verify its value

I AM NOT ASKING YOU THAT ONLY, BUT SHOW ME SOME CONVICTION..HOW MANY PEOPLE GAVE UP THEIR WEALTH IN SERVICE TO TOOTHFAIRY, PROVING THAT ITS GENUINITY. MARTYRDOM ISNT THE ONLY WAY, YOU CAN ALSO DO SOME SACRIFICE SUCH AS, CLEANING YUR PILLOW EVERYDAY BECAUSE THE TOOTHFAIRY WILL COME TO VISIT THAT NIGHT..
IF YOU CLAIM THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO PRACTICE IT, THEN PROVE IT..DO THEY NUMBER AS MUCH AS CHRISTIANS?

Originally posted by DCLXVI

There have been documented cases of toothfairy activity all over the world.


YOU MAKE THE CLAIM THAT THERE IS NOW PROVE IT...OTHERWISE SHUT YOUR HOLE..YOU LIAR...YOU WANT ME TO PROVIDE PROOF OF DOCUMENTED MIRACLES OF GOD? THEN JUST ASK LITTLE IGNORANT CHILD...

Originally posted by DCLXVI

No evidence? What do you call the money left behind in the morning if it's not evidence?

WHO TESTIFIED THIS? YOU? I DONT BELIEVE 1 WITNESS, I WOULD BELIEVE IF MILLIONS TESTIFIED THE SAME THING, BECAUSE THE ODDS OF THEM ALL LYING AND ARE "SCHIZPHRENIC" IS VERY UNLIKELY, PRESIDENTS, WORLD LEADERS, DOCTORS, AND SCIENTISTS CHRISTIANS CANNOT BE ALL "SCHIZOPHRENIC"... I BELIEVE IN HIGH PROBABILITIES, THAN LOW PROBABILITY...

Originally posted by You Killed Jesus
The universe is merely my brain in a vat, with an evil genius typing things into my brain, making up my experiences.

Prove me wrong, I dare you.

You made the claim, the burden of proof lies on you..If you provide no evidence, then that claim is fake...

Originally posted by whatsupyall
HAS THIS BEEN DOCUMENTED? PLENTY OF DOCUMENTED CASES ABOUT REALITY OF TOTHFAIRIES? YOUR A COMPULSIVE LIAR...

Ah... You're one of those...

I don't believe you understood the point I was trying to make.

Also I did not say I had plenty of documented cases about the reality of toothfairys, but of toothfairy activity such as money turning up in exchange for teeth. That, my friend, is not the same thing.

HAVE ANYONE TESTIFIED TO THIS TRUTH? HOW MANY? MILLIONS? PROVIDE THIS "BASIC" EVIDENCE, OTHERWISE I HAVE NO REASON TO BELIEVE IT...AND DONT LIE TO MAKE A POINT....

I told no lies in my previous posts, I presented scenarios for you to think about without taking into account your inability to actually think. That again, my friend, is not the same thing.

I AM NOT ASKING YOU THAT ONLY, BUT SHOW ME SOME CONVICTION..HOW MANY PEOPLE GAVE UP THEIR WEALTH IN SERVICE TO TOOTHFAIRY, PROVING THAT ITS GENUINITY. MARTYRDOM ISNT THE ONLY WAY, YOU CAN ALSO DO SOME SACRIFICE SUCH AS, CLEANING YUR PILLOW EVERYDAY BECAUSE THE TOOTHFAIRY WILL COME TO VISIT THAT NIGHT..
IF YOU CLAIM THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO PRACTICE IT, THEN PROVE IT..DO THEY NUMBER AS MUCH AS CHRISTIANS?

There are plenty of children that believe in the toothfairy and santa claus, and they "practice" those belief in ways tought to them by their parents. That however doesn't make them real.


YOU MAKE THE CLAIM THAT THERE IS NOW PROVE IT...OTHERWISE SHUT YOUR HOLE..YOU WANT ME TO PROVIDE PROOF OF DOCUMENTED MIRACLES OF GOD? THENJUST AS LITTLE CHILD...

Yes, by all means do.

WHO TESTIFIED THIS? YOU? I DONT BELIEVE 1 WITNESS, I WOULD BELIEVE IF MILLIONS TESTIFIED THE SAME THING, BECAUSE THE ODDS OF THEM ALL LYING AND ARE "SCHIZPHRENIC" IS VERY UNLIKELY, PRESIDENTS, WORLD LEADERS, DOCTORS, AND SCIENTISTS CHRISTIANS CANNOT BE ALL "SCHIZOPHRENIC"... I BELIEVE IN HIGH PROBABILITIES, THAN LOW PROBABILITY...

Let me put it this way, no more than 7 or 800 years ago almost the entire poplulation of earth believe that the stars were holes in the sky or dots of light stuck on a solid surface. They also believed that the Earth was flat and that it was the middle of the universe. Now, since so many people believed it and were willing to "testify" that this was true, did that make them right?

This thread is getting ridiculous. Whatsupyall, I don't know what kind of mind you have, but it certainly isn't logical.

You Killed Jesus; when did you start reading Descarte :D ?

Originally posted by DCLXVI
Ah... You're one of those...

I don't believe you understood the point I was trying to make.

Also I did not say I had plenty of documented cases about the reality of toothfairys, but of toothfairy activity such as money turning up in exchange for teeth. That, my friend, is not the same thing.

IF THERE IS DOCUMENTARY OF MONEY TURNING UP IN EXCHANGE FOR TEETH, THATS NOT TOOTHFAIRY, THATS A DOCUMENTARY ABOUT MONEY FOR TEETH. THEREFORE DONT LIE AND SAY THE DOCUMENTARY IS ABOUT TOOTHFAIRY, BECAUSE IT ISNT....OK? AGAIN THE DOCUMENTARY IS NOT ABOUT TOOTHFAIRIES, BUT YOOU CAN CLAIM THAT TOOTHFAIRY CAUSED THE INACTIVITY, AND IF SO, THEN PROVE IT...OK CHILD...

Originally posted by DCLXVI


There are plenty of children that believe in the toothfairy and santa claus, and they "practice" those belief in ways tought to them by their parents. That however doesn't make them real.

EITHER TOOTHFAIRY WAS TAUGHT TO THEM BY PARENTS, OR NOT. THATS NONE OF MY CONCERN AND THATS NOT THE SUBJECT.. WHERE IS THE CONVICTION OF THE BELIEF OF TOOTHFAIRIES, AND YOU SAID IT YOURSELF, ONLY CHILDREN ACCEPTS SUCH CLAIM, I DONT SEE ADULTS FOLLOWING TOOTHFAIRIES UNLESS THEY ARE MENTALLY SICK, AND IF U CLAIM THERE IS, THEN PROVE IT..OTHERWISE SHUT YOUR HOLE, THERE IS NO CONVICTION IN BELIEF OF TOOTHFAIRY, IT IS A MYTH...THE BURDEN OF PROOF LIES ON YOU WHO MAKE THE CLAIM, IF ONLY KIDS HAVE FAITH ON IT, THEN THAT PROVES MY POINT, TOOTHFAIRY IS A MYTH.

Originally posted by DCLXVI

Yes, by all means do.


LADY OF GUADALUPE,LADY OF LOURDES, PLACEBO, FAITH HEALING, THOUDSANDS OF SLAIN..ETC. ETC.. I WILL CLARIFY THIS FOR U AND LOOK IT UP ONLINE LATER....

Originally posted by DCLXVI

Let me put it this way, no more than 7 or 800 years ago almost the entire poplulation of earth believe that the stars were holes in the sky or dots of light stuck on a solid surface. They also believed that the Earth was flat and that it was the middle of the universe. Now, since so many people believed it and were willing to "testify" that this was true, did that make them right?

NO, WORDS AND CLAIMS ARE NOTHING WHEN IT IS NOT BACKED BY EVIDENCE...THEIR CLAIM WAS SPECULATION AND A GUESS, FOR THEY HAVE NOT OBSERVED WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT (BECAUSE THEY CANT, EARTH AND STARS ARE IMMEASURABLE AT THE TIME).. SO NO, CLAIMS ARE NOTHING, EVIDENCE IS EVERYTHING...EVIDENCE THROUGH PERSONAL CONVICTION, SCIENTIFIC, PHILOSOPHY, AND REALITY...IS WHAT COUNTS....

Ok then, whatsupyall, we've established a common ground. You agree with me that the masses aren't always right, and you agree with me that you need solid unrefutable evidence before anything can be proven true. Now all that remains is for you to provide me with solid unrefutable evidence.

This is Muscleman's proof for God:

ARGUMENT FROM CREATION
(1) If evolution is false, then creationism is true, and therefore God exists.
(2) Evolution can't be true, since I lack the mental capacity to understand it; moreover, to accept its truth would cause me to be uncomfortable
(3) Therefore, God exists.

PEACOCK ARGUMENT FROM SELECTIVE MEMORY
(1) [Christian asks "stumper" question]
(2) [Atheist answers question]
(3) [A lapse of time]
(4) [Christian repeats question]
(5) [Atheist repeats answer]
(6) [A lapse of time]
(7) [Christian repeats question]
(8) [Atheist repeats answer]
(9) [A lapse of time]
(10) Atheist, you never answered my question.
(11) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM IGNORANCE
(1) I don't understand evolution, I mean how could there be nothing then something?
(2) (Well informed atheist gives articulate explanation of evolution and gently explains that the beginning of the universe has nothing to do with evolution.)
(3) Well it seems way too complicated and unlikely to me. Plus I don't want to live my life thinking I evolved from a monkey.
(4) Therefore, God exists and Jesus died for our sins.
(5) (Atheist argues that theist's ignorance of evolution does not logically lead to the conclusion that there is a God, let alone the Christian God.)
(6) Says you! God bless.
(7) Therefore, God exists.

Xelios; I think you've hit the nail square on its head ;). Next time, try aiming for whatsupyall. Maybe you'll knock som sense into him.

Everyone please note. Whatsup only has a mental age of perhaps 5 years. I suspect his real age is probably around 12.

It should be obvious to pretty much everyone here that he is incapable of simple reasoning.

In the same way that you can't have an intellectiual debate with a 5 year old then don't expect to achieve anything better with whatsup.

The only value with whatsup is the enjoyment you can have by teasing him. Anything else is a waste of time.

whatsup,

If you want us to prove the nonexistence of a god, then please give a precise description of this entity so we know exactly what we are trying to disprove.

There are thousands of definitions of gods, what is yours?

Originally posted by You Killed Jesus
The universe is merely my brain in a vat, with an evil genius typing things into my brain, making up my experiences.

Prove me wrong, I dare you.

I didn't think I was evil...? :(

Originally posted by Xelios
This is Muscleman's proof for God:

ARGUMENT FROM CREATION
(1) If evolution is false, then creationism is true, and therefore God exists.
(2) Evolution can't be true, since I lack the mental capacity to understand it; moreover, to accept its truth would cause me to be uncomfortable

You lying sack of sheep. I never disagreed with evolution, FALSELY ACCUSING ME LIKE ALWAYS. Again get over it, I mentioned this clearly maybe a hundred times, I AM NOT AGAINST evoolution, I BELIEVE its theory because it is supported with FOSSIL evidence. Things that already exists evolve, AND HOW DID THOSE THINGS EXIST IS WHERE THE CREATIONISM COMES IN PLAY..

I accept Creationism, then evolution....


PEACOCK ARGUMENT FROM SELECTIVE MEMORY

Its more like these..

1. Atheist say "Knowing means Controlling".
2. Christian say "Your stupid, knowing doesnt mean 'controlling'"..
3. Atheists says "We dont make a claim, and there is no God".
4. Christian says "U said u dont make a claim, then later on made a claim that there is no God, your an idiot".
5. Atheist says "I dont reserve to faith, only to evidence"..Faith is stupid..
6. Christian says "Then show evidence God dont exist, u dont have any, so dont say u have no faith, because u do."
7. Atheist says "Theory doesnt need faith, the word theory means "fact"".
8. Christian say "Again yur an idiot, theory is not fact".

9. Atheists say "You have a brain of a 5 yrs old kid, yur probably 12 yrs old and cant get a real intelligent thing to say"..
10. Christian say "If my brain isnt smart, then your brain is a rock".
11. Christian says "Evolution is a good theory" and I accept it..
12. Atheist says "Evolution isnt a theory, it is a FACT. and were not brainwashed...And yur an idiot for disagreeing with evolution".
13. Christian says "Dont falsely accuse me, I said I agree with evolution".
14. atheists says "Evolution is a fact, and yur stupid for not aggreing with evoolution".
15. Christian yells and say "CAN YOU HEAR ME YOU STUPID! I SAID I AM NOT NOT NOT AGAINST EVOLUTION, I ACCEPT ITS THEORY, AND IT IS NOT A FACT...
16. Atheists pause for a while...........Then comes back and say "Evolution is a fact, and yur stupid for rejecting it"..

etc. etc. more idiotic comments from atheists here and there..
END....

THE ONLY REASON WHY THIS DEBATE IS GOING CIRCULAR, IS BECAUSE YOU GUYS DONT HAVE COMMON SENSE AND A DYSFUNCTIONAL BRAIN..AND THEN YOU ACCUSE ME OF BEING DUMB, READ WHAT U HAVE POSTED, AND THINK AGAIN STUPID KIDS...

Originally posted by Xelios

ARGUMENT FROM IGNORANCE
(1) I don't understand evolution, I mean how could there be nothing then something?
(2) (Well informed atheist gives articulate explanation of evolution and gently explains that the beginning of the universe has nothing to do with evolution.)
(3) Well it seems way too complicated and unlikely to me. Plus I don't want to live my life thinking I evolved from a monkey.
(


ONCE AGAIN, I AM NOT AGAINST EVOLUTION!!! IS YOUR BRAIN DYSFUNCTIONAL? IF YOU SAY ITS NOT, THEN ACT LIKE IT OK.....

haha, this one relates to whatsupyall quite well:

ARGUMENT FROM PERSECUTION(II)
(1) Jesus said that people would make fun of Christians.
(2) I am an idiot.
(3) People often point that out.
(4) Therefore, God exists.
:D

Originally posted by whatsupyall
You made the claim, the burden of proof lies on you..If you provide no evidence, then that claim is fake...

Pshaw, you're just the evil genius trying to convince me that my convictions are wrong, lulling me into the false sense of security I was previously in so you continue with your fun. You won't fool me that easily.

If there is no need for something to exist, and no logical reason to believe it does, then the onus of proof lies on the person claiming it's existance. In this case, there is no need for a God to exist, and there is no logical reason why he should exist, therefor the onus of proof is on MM, not us.

Thus far, MM has provided nothing more than his opinion that God exists. He will tell you otherwise (his stupid intelligence arguement), but he's done nothing but present falty logic (ie. my computer was created, therefor the rest of the universe must also have been created).

On a side note, it is not possible to prove or disprove God as he exists beyond this universe. Unless he decides to pay us a visit in a physical form of some sort proof of or against his existance is limited to speculation, opinion and guesswork.

will someone please say they understand what I mean when I say a theist can't ask an atheist to disprove god?

Atheism is not an independent claim! Theists are making an independent claim!


**cries**

Nebula,

will someone please say they understand what I mean when I say a theist can't ask an atheist to disprove god?

Atheism is not an independent claim! Theists are making an independent claim! Well of course, but whatsup has selectively decided to assume all atheists are strong atheists. i.e. those who do claim that a god does not exist. He prefers not to consider the vast majority who simply disbelieve theist claims.

Originally posted by Nebula
will someone please say they understand what I mean when I say a theist can't ask an atheist to disprove god?

Atheism is not an independent claim! Theists are making an independent claim!


**cries**

Proving a negative is an impossibility, yes.

"So-and-so is a traitor."

"No, there isn't any evidence saying he is..."

"That just shows you how well he can hide his tracks! HAH! Sneaky bastard!"

My decision to respect other viewpoints is being sorely tested by my funny bone right here...

"You lying sack of sheep"?? rofl...:D

__________________________________________
There is no god, afterlife or divine love. There is only Entropy, the mother from which we were all born. She tugs our souls with the beautiful, maternal love of chaos. Why do you keep Her waiting?