Humans think about eternity, they can become Christians, or Muslims, or Hindus, or Buddhists, etc., or Atheists, representing a decision about what they think eternity is really all about.

After investigating the purported merits of these belief systems, you can choose between eternity with a loving Creator after living a life of service and devotion to the good Lord (Christian), eternity with Allah and the 72 virgins after a life of seeking global theocracy for Islam, or Hindu and Buddhist which, I think most would agree, are vague and all-over-the-map, you may come back as a bacterium!

And then there's Atheism, the faith that there is no Creator God, you can't demonstrate that there is no God, so it's the faith that you'll end up in a hole to become one-with-the-dirt, and nothing more, thank God we are all free to choose, wouldn't you say?

Humans think about eternity, they can become Christians, or Muslims, or Hindus, or Buddhists, etc., or Atheists, representing a decision about what they think eternity is really all about.

After investigating the purported merits of these belief systems, you can choose between eternity with a loving Creator after living a life of service and devotion to the good Lord (Christian), eternity with Allah and the 72 virgins after a life of seeking global theocracy for Islam, or Hindu and Buddhist which, I think most would agree, are vague and all-over-the-map, you may come back as a bacterium!

And then there's Atheism, the faith that there is no Creator God, you can't demonstrate that there is no God, so it's the faith that you'll end up in a hole to become one-with-the-dirt, and nothing more, thank God we are all free to choose, wouldn't you say?


*************
M*W: Wow! You do know more than five words! I'm impressed!

Tell me more about your loving creator. Tell me more about your god. Tell me more about your association with infinity. Tell me more about your sssociation with god! I am impressed with your knowledge. Show me that you know what you are talking about!

And then there's Atheism, the faith that there is no Creator God, you can't demonstrate that there is no God, so it's the faith that you'll end up in a hole to become one-with-the-dirt, and nothing more, thank God we are all free to choose, wouldn't you say?

Longest post I've ever seen you make. Is this the new, improved IAC? I am impressed...

However, I do have issue with some of your statements, especially the one I have quoted - and I would submit that you already know why. I think this quote sums it up best, so I shall use it:

"I contend that we are both atheists, I just believe in one less god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods you'll understand why I dismiss yours".. S. Roberts

I will however amend that slightly - changing "dismiss" for "lack belief in".

So to answer your statement, atheists by and large do not specifically have faith that your god doesn't exist, they just lack a belief given the absolute lack of evidence to suggest he or she exists. Furthermore, atheism in itself doesn't specifically say anything regarding what happens to your corpse when you die.

As for choice, it isn't a choice - it's an inevitability based upon the sum of who you are. You don't "choose" to like or dislike a particular type of music you just do due to the sum of your experiences. This is the same.

As for eternity, the idea is not all that appealing to me. What if, for arguments sake, your daughter ends up burning because of her apparent "choices"? Could you live comfortably with that fact for eternity? If not, what is the difference between heaven and hell, you'll still both be suffering for eternity.. just in different places.

They don't allow preaching here.

They don't allow preaching here.
That has not stopped you from preaching creationism

Please, call it the Global Flood Model (GFM).

So, actually sticking to topic, do you agree/disagree with the things I have said?

We are all free to choose what we want to believe about eternity, and I know you know this to be true.

In the village idiot’s post we see the fundamental motivation behind this type of religious delusion and retarded psychology.
It’s not that the proposition makes sense but that it offers something to the believer in return for its utter and complete surrender to it.

It is true all human opinions demand a certain faith.
Difference is some minds place their faith in what they see and hear and feel and taste and smell; they use their senses and the information gathered from them to surmise reality.
The religiously inebriated mind, motivated by fear and hope, presupposes a ‘behind the senses’ reality which, conveniently, is both not indifferent towards it and, also, beneficial towards it.
Here it does not perceive a conflict of interest between its belief and its hypothetical reality.

The strategy of juxtaposing honest, more objective, evaluations of perceived phenomena with ones that promise and threaten and use a multitude of psychological tricks to coerce and control, is often used by imbeciles who call themselves “selfless” and “humble” and yet hold it as fact that they are special enough to deserve eternal life and salvation and by idiots who can only come up with the argument that their delusional faith, in a reality they can neither justify nor rationalize, offers them a promise.

In the village idiot's short starting premise we notice all the tricks of the mind used by these types.

The threat (Hell and eternal damnation)…The promise (Heaven and eternal suffering-free life)…The ‘prove a negative’ (Prove the Lochness Monster does not exist or suppose that it does – reverse reasoning: “Something exists until proven that it doesn’t”)…The moral high ground, that insinuates that the only thing that keeps men from behaving viciously towards one another is this dogma or a dogma (funny how animals exhibit kindness and compassion without religion and Jesus Christ and how mankind made it thus far without Christianity for a better part of history)…The desperate cry of weakness confronting a universe that it does not understand and, of what it does understand and the way it understands it, it does not like and so must invent or surrender to a mental virus, a drug, to cope with it.

They'll ban you for insults.

They'll ban you for insults.I only speak the honest truth.
I know it…and everyone with an I.Q. over 100 knows it.

You are a big joke.
Why should I hide this fact?

You are exactly as I’ve described you.
If that gets me banned then so be it.

I know you’ll be sad.

You are not only an idiot but an intellectual coward, as well.

I bet you e-mail the administrators crying and bitching about how others treat you or how they should protect you from facing the reality of what and who you are.
A snitch also.

It’s unfortunate that your genetic qualities coupled with the environment they were brought into resulted in you…But at least you can dream and imagine an after-life where you actually have some value…to someone.

Yeh, so settle down, you're delightful when you're not an ass hole.

Yeh, so settle down, you're delightful when you're not an ass hole.You are a virus, a bug, a disease of the mind.

Why would I be “delightful” to an illness?

How can I be a bug of the mind?

What sort of "superior being" would demand that it be worshiped? The god of the OT, who apparently was sent to a court mandated anger management course, (and then turned over a new leaf for the NT) behaves as a petty tyrant - not as any sort of being worthy of being worshiped.

IAC, congratulations on your first post over 1 sentence. :bravo:

I find it interesting that in your post you stated that humans only have 5 options for belief systems:

1. Christianity
2. Islam
3. Buddhism
4. Hinduism
5. Atheism

What about another category:

6. Belief in a God but not in Religion

Religion can only bring you so far, Icey.

We are all free to choose what we want to believe about eternity, and I know you know this to be true.

You already know I don't agree to such thing given my clear statements concerning our lack of ability to actually 'choose' anything.

Now, once again: did you agree or disagree with what I stated in my post?

you can't demonstrate that there is no God

You've finally reached the pinnacle of your intelligence. Based on YOUR logic, I've made a deal with Zeus to make sure he fires a lightning bolt up your wazoo, for an eternity. :D

You already know I don't agree to such thing given my clear statements concerning our lack of ability to actually 'choose' anything.

Now, once again: did you agree or disagree with what I stated in my post?

SnakeLord brings up a truly valid point.

For example, in one case, two twins who born of the same parents, grew up in the same environment, went to the same school, etc. have turned out to be completely different from one another.

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/magazine/articles/2005/08/14/what_makes_people_gay/

One kid is a normal young boy. The other thinks, and says, he is a girl. This proves that, in a way, what determines who we are as people is largely based upon random connections and thoughts our brain has at certain times.

They don't allow preaching here.

*************
M*W: This is not preaching! It's free thought! Keep going!

IAC, why do argue on this site? It is pretty clear that you are not, and have not changed or altered anyone's opinions in any way. And it is pretty clear that you aren't going to.

I know you know that as well as anyone. So you are arguing on this site for one of two reasons:

1) You have doubts about your faith, and are trying to justify them.
2) You are an arrogant prick.

Insults and preaching are not allowed here.

And then there's Atheism, the faith that there is no Creator God, you can't demonstrate that there is no God, so it's the faith that you'll end up in a hole to become one-with-the-dirt, and nothing more, thank God we are all free to choose, wouldn't you say?

I could have 'faith' in a 'loving creator', but what good does that do if in the 99.99999999999999999% likelihood that there isn't one?

Plus there is nothing to say that being an atheist means that you will be shunned by this loving creator. Only man insists that we must believe in god, but man has religious agenda's. If there is a loving god, in the grand scheme of things, there really is nothing to suggest he will hate us for not beliving in him. In fact if he demands that we believe in him despite the fact he has given us not a jot of evidence, then he really is insulting the intelligence that he has given us.

I have nothing to lose by being atheist in this regard. I spend my 1 shot at life seeing things for what they are and not becoming deluded. And if there really is a god out there, then who's to say he doesn't reward atheists and shun the theists?

To summarise: If there is a god, there is no way my belief or non-belief in him will change a thing.

Insults and preaching are not allowed here.

Then, why are you insulting everyones intelligence?

Those with intelligence are not insulted.

IAC, why do spend your entire life trying to justify a literal interpretation of the Bible? Why not just have faith? Or are you the "Thomas" type which needs a basis for your belief?

Jesus treated Old Testament history as real history.

Okay, great. So why not just trust him then? Why do feel the need to have to justify your beliefs?

Jesus treated Old Testament history as real history.

Jesus did not have access to modern scientific teachings though did he? This only highlights his fallibility.

Since He is purportedly part of the Triune God, he may know a bit more about science than His creation does, don't you think?

It's funny. IAC creates a thread entiled "You Gotta Have Faith." Yet his whole life is based on finding EVIDENCE to be the basis of faith (even though faith by nature requires no supporting evidence).

Since He is purportedly part of the Triune God, he may know a bit more about science than His creation does, don't you think?

If Jesus would have argued that the earth was not at the center of the universe and it was not flat, this would have been a good indicator of his knowledge.
Just one simple sentence: "The earth is not at the center of the universe, and it is round."

That's why guys like St. Augustine and other old church fathers argued to their death for facts that weren't true (Earth-Flat Theory, Geocentricism), similar to what you are doing IAC with the Young Earth Theory.

I came to believe in Jesus, ensconsed in Darwinian dogma, so then, as a geologist, I set out to see how the historicity of the Bible matches up with biology, archaeology, and geology.

So you needed more than faith?

I was born again, so that was done, but my intellectual training and curiosity kicked in and I started looking into the evidence.

Yeah, IAC. You just gotta have faith, Scruffy.

Why look for evidence, when you already knew the truth? What's the point?
The sequence of actions makes sense though. First you came to believe in Jesus through an experience which provided a basis for faith. Then you tried to rationalize the OT of the bible as best as you could around science which cleary points to an Old Earth.

Why don't you start a Scruffy thread, you'd like that.

Again, IAC. Why are you on this site? You know as well as I do that you are not changing anyone's opinion about anything, especially your odd Young Earth Theory.

Proverbs 28:25
25 He who is of a proud heart stirs up strife,
But he who trusts in the LORD will be prospered.

2 Timothy 2:23
23 But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife.

IAC, I suggest you reconsider why you are on this site. You are a proud, arrogant person with no other purpose but to generate strife with your arrogant demeaner, your demeaning comments, and your provoking posts, like the one above.

Good to see you're doing your Bible study today.

Good to see you're doing your Bible study today.

Do you think God is happy with you trying to generate strife? Again, why are you on this site? No one wants you here since all you do is attempt to generate strife.

Since He is purportedly part of the Triune God, he may know a bit more about science than His creation does, don't you think?

Purportedly - there's a part of the problem.

Do you think God/Jesus would want me to defend what He believes and has written?

Did Jesus ever say he believed in a Young Earth, or took the OT literally word for word? Did he ever imply that?

The problem with you, IAC is that you take the OT literally. Jesus, on the other hand, sees the spiritual symbolism of stories like Adam and Eve and the serpant. Do you honestly believe Adam and Eve were real physical beings and a snake talked to them? Or is the story just a symbol of an underlying spiritual message (which you can't seem to comprehend)?

IAC, the real problem with you is that you feel the need to show your great knowledge because of your pride and arrogance, and the only way you can do that is by trying to prove that the OT is literal, even though God clearly told you in the Bible not to do so.

When I asked you earlier about why Moses never made a statement clearly prophesying a Son of God, Redeemer of all man, etc. you told me that the entire OT with all the offerings, the story of Abraham and Isaac, etc. was a "SYMBOL" of Jesus' life. Yet you still are obsessed with proving that the OT is literal.

Since Jesus spoke of the literal Deluge of Noah's time, and Sodom and Gomorah, and the Exodus, and referred to Old Testament scriptures, why wouldn't I think He thinks it's real history?

my intellectual training and curiosity kicked in

:roflmao:

I came to believe in Jesus, ensconsed in Darwinian dogma, so then, as a geologist, I set out to see how the historicity of the Bible matches up with biology, archaeology, and geology.

This is interesting IAC, I'd like to know what happened to make you believe in Jesus (whatever that might mean).
It sounds like you looked into the geological record with a view to finding evidence that supported bible creation myths. Darwin on the other hand came to his conclusions by observation, not by dreaming up evolution from out of nowhere and then cherry picking the evidence to suit his take on reality.
Do you see the difference?

Going back to the original topic, believing something doesn't make it true. If it did then I'd choose to believe that I am a handsome billionaire (for the record, I'm not). Perhaps you were implying that belief in God gives one hope of a wonderful afterlife? If so then you might be right, but that comes as little consolation to the victims of suicide bombers.

Do you think God/Jesus would want me to defend what He believes and has written?

Did God force you to register on sciforums.com, or did you voluntarily do so?

Did God force you to start all the threads you did, or did you voluntarily do so?

Did God force you to make all the demeaning and provoking smart-ass comments you have made, or have you done so on your own accord?

You are not DEFENDING God's word. You are on the OFFENSIVE, and you are offensively going out of your way to generate strife. You know as well as I do, that you will not convert one person on this site to believe exactly what it is that you believe.

Your arrogance and pride are the only things which drove you to this site, and which keep you on this site. You are here to cause trouble and generate strife with your smart-ass, demeaning comments.

Onto the next issue:

Since Jesus spoke of the literal Deluge of Noah's time, and Sodom and Gomorah, and the Exodus, and referred to Old Testament scriptures, why wouldn't I think He thinks it's real history?

No actually, Jesus speaks of a "flood," not a global "deluge." You may want to re-read that passage. Also, he could easily have been referring to the "symbolism" of the story. Nothing in what he says implies that he took it literally.

Further, Jesus NEVER says that the earth is young, nor does he ever imply it.

Why don't you post the passage? Is it because it proves you wrong?

How 'bout Sodom and Gomorah?

Matt 24:38-39
38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
NKJV

Now you can show me the verse where Jesus says that the earth is young.

He agrees with the history in the Old Testament, obviously, so go read it, as part of your daily Bible study.

How 'bout Sodom and Gomorah?

What about it? I never gave an opinion on that story one way or the other, nor do I plan to.

With all your daily Bible study, you should teach a Sunday School class.

Jesus refers to Sodom and Gomorah as real history.

Jesus refers to Sodom and Gomorah as real history.

Great, I never disputed that specific story. I disputed a Global Deluge and a Young Earth, which Jesus NEVER refers to as real, literal history. :D

With all your daily Bible study, you should teach a Sunday School class.

With all your humbleness, you should become a monk.

Based on YOUR logic

Don't say that! To them, the beautiful syntactic clean cut rules of logic are mish-mashed into a miasma of vague opinions, assertions and boiled onions. They can't separate them :bawl: