Some nations and cultures simply don't deserve to exist. They should be eradicated entirely. Not the people, but the nations and cultures.



MULTAN, Pakistan - A Pakistani tribal council ordered an 18-year-old girl to be gang-raped in order to punish her family after her brother was seen walking with a girl from a higher class tribe, police said Tuesday.

More here... (http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0702PakistanRape02-ON.html)


More in Mexico... (http://www.msnbc.com/news/774215.asp?0bl=-0)

Yup.

Rascists gang rape "black" women/girls for being black, but I don't see you getting excited over that.

People who do that anywhere should be wiped out. The difference is that in Pakistan and a several other countries we see cultures which condone such activities.

I just think you're being a leetle OTT. :rolleyes:

Oh, and I think people who support public execution should be killed. Oh wait, that would mean assasinating the President of America. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Firefly

Oh, and I think people who support public execution should be killed. Oh wait, that would mean assasinating the President of America. :rolleyes:
I've never been too fond of the death penalty either.

Oh, the death penalty itself is a whole other issue. :p My point is, there's a difference between disagreeing with something, and wanting everyone who doesn't see it from your point of view, dead.

Gang-rape is not merely a difference of opinion. These people see it as a perfectly valid method of social control. Their opinions are worth far less than the safety and honour of those women. Their opinions are absolutely worthless. Such a culture should be wiped out. Philosophy is what you get to worry about when everyone is alive and safe.

Some people might think the death penalty is a valid method of social control. Or caning children. It depends on your background, who you are, etc.

Yes, indeed, everyone has their own values and ethics. And I have mine. In mine, those bastards should be wiped out.

To put it bluntly, the end result is that we are all different, but WE have the guns and the money, and Pakistan has a few nukes.

kick a dog while it's down?

I have gone before into subjects such as anti-social behaviour and absolute morals based on our evolution. Think about the role of gang-rape in our evolution. To cut it short, basically, gang-rape as social control is anti-human. Therefore wrong in any language.

PS: I'll write up some big-arse essay on this idea of moral absolutes some day.

Adam
Some nations and cultures simply don't deserve to exist. They should be eradicated entirely. Not the people, but the nations and cultures.That formula is such a successful one, isn't it? Let me know when you've got that strategy worked out.
People who do that anywhere should be wiped out. The difference is that in Pakistan and a several other countries we see cultures which condone such activities.Christians should have been wiped out, in that sense. Of course, if we look at history, where does that put us? Would England have become a global power? Would its might have extended, for instance, to the settlement of Australia?
I've never been too fond of the death penalty eitherBut death sure is effective, isn't it?
To put it bluntly, the end result is that we are all different, but WE have the guns and the money, and Pakistan has a few nukes.Which doesn't speak toward a reasonable end result, does it? Might is right? Anyone who complains about US policy ought to know that might is right is our excuse for anything, and does the world accept that? Doesn't seem so. It gets the US flak every time we go forth. But then again, we could leave this one to Australia and its nuclear arsenal.
To cut it short, basically, gang-rape as social control is anti-human. Therefore wrong in any language.I don't think anyone will argue with this.
I'll write up some big-arse essay on this idea of moral absolutes some dayWithout sarcasm, Adam, I would love to see an objective consideration of moral absolutism in any of its forms.\

Firefly
Oh, the death penalty itself is a whole other issueIs it really? At least the death penalty pretends to have due process attached to it. But aside from that comes the consideration of destruction in response to perceived moral depravity.
My point is, there's a difference between disagreeing with something, and wanting everyone who doesn't see it from your point of view, dead.I'll raise a glass to that. People, no matter who they are, should not be treated as trash or toys, to be thrown out and destroyed when they are unsatisfactory.

But as long as the US is mixing it up around the world, why not put our foot down? I would love to see us throw a major international tantrum based on something as random as this human-rights travesty.

I think we need to send the Afghani farmers over to see the Pakistani judges. Maybe after a little recreation, they'll think more clearly instead of manifest their rage through their obsessions.

thanx,
Tiassa :cool:

Tiassa can always stir the pot so well.

I will say that death has proved to be effective as a deterrent from time immortal till now. We are not the first society to deal with crime, murder, and rape. Go back as far as there are written records and you will find someone having to deal with it. No truly widespread, totally effective method has been devised to date. No matter the penalty there are some that feel they can do it and get away without suffering the penalties involved. As long as that mentality exists we will have need of punishment. If it were removed there would still be crimes of passion where the perpetuator is totally oblivious to what the consequences of his/her act will be. The death penalty, or any other punishment, is a result of whatever society trying to deal with a difficult problem. When you look at the foofaraw surrounding it, you find proponents disagreeing with the method, even within our own society, as to whether it is right or not. Death is the final solution. The one that guarantees that the perpetuator will never harm another fellow being again.

While it is easy to put down another society for their acts because they do not do as we do, I am not sure that we have the right to do so.

I am saying that, " I do not agree with gang rape as a punishment." But for their society apparently it works. They have a behavior that has been described as criminal and a punishment that has been deemed for that act. The members of that society know that they can face that punishment for that act. Is that not in essence what we do with courts? We may take issue with the method of punishment or even if it is a crime within the light of our society but that does not mean that it is an effective method to deal with a crime or that for their society it is a crime.

It is easy to feel superior because that is not the way we do it. Of necessity, someone has to deem the punishment and carry out the sentence. It is no different for our own society. Perhaps we have a case of our noses being to long.

AdamThat formula is such a successful one, isn't it? Let me know when you've got that strategy worked out.Christians [i]should have been wiped out, in that sense. Of course, if we look at history, where does that put us? Would England have become a global power? Would its might have extended, for instance, to the settlement of Australia?But death sure is effective, isn't it?Which doesn't speak toward a reasonable end result, does it? Might is right? Anyone who complains about US policy ought to know that might is right is our excuse for anything, and does the world accept that? Doesn't seem so. It gets the US flak every time we go forth. But then again, we could leave this one to Australia and its nuclear arsenal.I don't think anyone will argue with this.Without sarcasm, Adam, I would love to see an objective consideration of moral absolutism in any of its forms.\

Tiassa, I would point out that several times in just the last deacde we have seen entire nations and cultures turned upside-down, while their people survive. Bosnia, East Timor, Afghanistan. In those cases, I would say that might most definitely did make right.

Maybe a different world history would be a better history. Who knows?

Death certainly is effective. Although I disapprove of killing in general, I realise it is indeed quite reasonable in some cases. Please don't say it isn't, since you admitted once that one of your personal heroes was an attempted murderer.

I don't think you need to play upon the USA-martyr complex again, all the US-bashing and such. Not necessary.

Actually I would not be surprised if Australia possessed nuclear-tipped cruise missiles. We did, after all, send otherwise useless submarines to Desert Storm, and have them sitting off the coasts of China, Indonesia, and in the Persian Gulf. About 15 years ago there was a plan put before Parliament to equip our subs with such weapons, but the entire project went silent in about two weeks. Then we are also a major producer of uranium. Merely speculation.

I've been meaning to write such an essay for aaagggeeesss, but I never get around to it. I've included little bits of the concept in other things, but never stuck it all together.

hey all
ive only skimmed quickly and a unanswered question has come to mind and i dare anyone to PROPOSE an answer.

DEATH PENALTY.... OK.... SO IT HAPPENS
someone is killed as it has happened in the past
therefor someone is judged and executed for it!
then as it has happened
the person was innocent.
WHO IS IT THAT GETS TO KILL/EXECUTE
THE PERSON WHO KILLED/(NOW murdered) the wrong person?

fare is fare.... rite???

:)

tiassa: I was just saying that I wasn't totally for or against the death penalty, but giving my views would be off topic, but I just thought that the death penalty to be used lightly (or Adam's views on obliterating "not the people, but the nations and cultures" also seems ... a bit extreme).

Do you have any reasonable objections to eradicating cultures which consistently screw people over in the worst possible ways?

Firstly I think you should define and differ the terms culture, nations and people.

Then I think you should tell me who, how and why someone has the right to take away such a multitude of lives.

Then explain how I was being unreasonable before.

And IMO: I object to anyone taking the life of another sentient being, unless it is exclusively to help them, and also not all the people in that culture that support gang rape. So if you "eradicated" the entire culture then that would be outright and unjustified murder in some cases. Even if you're gonna argue the end justiufies the means.

I'm not advocating the killing of people, only the eradication of a culture.

University fraternaties are occasionally in trouble for raping drunk girls at their parties. The universities promise, after these things hit the news, to wipe out such behaviour. They don't go around killing students, they simply try to wipe out the culture of drunken abuse. Do you think such efforts by a university are wrong?

No, I don't mean to imply you were unreasonable before, i just wish to see some good objections to the general idea of wiping our anti-social or anti-human cultures.

Originally posted by Firefly
Rascists gang rape "black" women/girls for being black, but I don't see you getting excited over that.

Wrong firefly... dead wrong. Link posted by Adam some time ago....

http://www.sciforums.com/t8089/s/thread.html

Originally posted by tiassa
AdamThat formula is such a successful one, isn't it? Let me know when you've got that strategy worked out.

Adam was talking about eliminating a CULTURE, not a people. Sort of like eliminating murderers really. Before you start frothing, think a bit. This is NOT a bad thing, if the culture is morally reprehensible.
Yes Tiassa, we know.... Murderers and rapists are people too.... Tell you what, we'll put them all on an island somewhere and let you live with them. Would you like that? Maybe you could debate philosophy with them...

Adam: How exactly do you eradicate a culture? There are elements of it in other cultures.

Squid V: forgive me, I'm a newbie. :) (That excuse is valid til I hit 100 posts) :p and your comment to tiassa: you thnk you should just kill murderers and rapists? Not try to understand them, change them? Just eradicate that too?

erradication of a culture................?????????????
hhhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
wellllllllllllll
lets seeeeeeeeeeeee
you could teach us about that?????
the jews???
the palistinians???
the sudo aerian skin heads???
winnie mandella???

whos for a 'jolly old' book-burning then????

wake up and smell the ganggreen on your soul!!!

CULTURE IN ITS PURE ESSENCE IS PEOPLE IN A SOCIETY.

i am never less than ammazed at the level of brainwashing in
most people.


:rolleyes:
:confused:
:bugeye:
:o .......... do i have to be called a human?
firefly...
tiassa...
good luck
:D

groove on all

Erm, good luck for what? :confused:

Originally posted by ripleofdeath

i am never less than ammazed at the level of brainwashing in
most people.

I was actually thinking the same about those who reject the idea with no reason. Consider the example I gave above, about university fraternities.

Ripleofdeath, consider this. What if, in the town where you lived, there was a social club which involved abducting and raping young children on weekends? Should that culture be left to go on about its business? Do you have any children of your own? Or should that little culture be eradicated? Please actually think about it before automatically rejecting the notion.

I agree that something should be done about it, but I don't agree with killing the perpetrators.

We shouldn't judge other cultures values. They did it for a reason.


But a f**cking stupid reason. Kill the Muthas

Originally posted by Firefly
I agree that something should be done about it, but I don't agree with killing the perpetrators.

Such as? Are you going to go to pakistan and teach them all a truer way of life?

QUOTE
Ripleofdeath, consider this. What if, in the town where you lived, there was a social club which involved abducting and raping young children on weekends? Should that culture be left to go on about its business? Do you have any children of your own? Or should that little culture be eradicated? Please actually think about it before automatically rejecting the notion
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HEYYA ALL
well there is a difference between self defence and ritualised murder.
if it was me...
in my town...
and i knew about it and where it was happening...
well...
what would be done is only in self defence!!!
SO THAT IS THE ANSWER YOU FOSTER!
although a small problem of psychological conditioning is for you to claim it as a culture!
it is infact a sickness that may be untreatable!!!
so what would i do???
if i knew where and when!
I WOULD SERVE THE LAW OF MOTHER EARTH!!!
in seeking rehabilitation of the victim.
i will not discuss exactly to a point because it serves no one when you tear out a page from a book and then read it by its'self!!!
unless you need to control someone for slavery.... ???
ooooooppppsssss
ive just desribed most universetys!

THERE ARE CERTAIN LAWS OF THE EARTH THAT ALWAYS STAY TRUE!
these cannot be changed!!!
you are dealing with limbic dominated beings!!!
you need to take a class in animal behaviour and mearly apply it to them!
the law of dogs chasing/biting cattle is ideal!
if you catch it in the act
you have the rite to kill it "ON THE SPOT INSTANTLY" INFRONT OF THE CATTLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!
if you dont then how do you know if you are actualy killing someones innocent PET that just looks like the one that did it!!!

enough anywho
the wall is getting too red....blood red
ooohhhhhh
my head
off to bed
enough said
enough

:)
peace...love...and missery to all greedmerchants-may the fires of hell be caried on wings of lightning to thier own backyard...
atleast we could plant a nice crop of hemp and soya beans.
is carbonised protien good for that? :D

Erm, good luck for what? :)
Firefly

trying to convince those who feel the need to purify thier soul by the stoning to death of a living being.

in an atempt to write all the wrongs done to them in a world they do not seek to understand.
because its ohh soo much effort! :rolleyes:

unfortunately the undelying thought to some things that seem simple to others may not be soo easy to understand.

such is life so i learn as i discover more and more which i have never known that i did not know, ... as i grow.

too many executioners trying to create employment for them selfs!
TOO SAD!
:D

THE GOOD LUCK is because i see you try to teach what is impossible for some to remember.

keep groovin all
:)

So what you are saying is that if it is small scale and geographically close to you, it is ok to wipe out such a culture. But if it is larger and further away, it's not ok to wipe out such a culture. The only difference is geography and the number of people involved, yet only the smaller scenario deserves response?

Squid V - Well, I think they shoudl be taught the error of their ways. :rolleyes:

ripleofdeath - No harm in trying, I guess. :)

Well, I agree with someone said wiping culture is the same as wiping out people. People are going to defend their culture. Historically no culture has ever been wiped off "peacefully" except there are many cases of cultural fusion which for me is unthinkable. I agree Pakistan has a ass backward culture and so are most Islamic countries. Some may disagree but I think Islam is a lot more backward than Christianity.....But the thing is a culture doesn't just get wiped out but they get replaced. I don't really know what to replace it with.

bring the perps to justice and leave it at that. do not confuse
pakistani law with with the various tribal systems that exist.

if people choose to suffer under a unjust system where their children are raped and do not or cannot fight back, that is their problem. these are adults and not children.the fittest will survive
and time will tell if the islamics make it

Originally posted by spookz
bring the perps to justice
What do you think justice is? Prison? Death?

HHHHMMMMMMMmmmmmmm

hey all
well im kinda almost at a loss...
no wonder there are so many devil worshipping seudo christian
child-raping sociatal assasins when it seems that
CULTURE
is so reddily attributed to
crime(rape slavery torture genocide)
and thats just the obviouse ones.

the british empire maintains slavery and genocide in ireland at this very moment!!!

the israels do it to the palistinians-at this very moment

the U$A does it to the afghanistan people-at this very moment

the U$A did it to the vietamese

i will stop there for now with the list because it just keeps on going
yes even sleepy old backward new zealand did it to the maori's
the maori's did it to the maori-ori's (unsure of spelling)

YO ADAM
its kinda so simple that it is made to be a joke and then cast off as an idiological navana
you only have to clean up your own back yard and then the grass is cleaner on the other side of the fence EVERYWHERE!!!
just remeber that the british and american empires have continuosely undermined all the cultures in the world that hold family values as the most important!!!!!!!!!!

speaking of which i need to go and evalute the family fridge :D

good luck all
open your hearts so we may start to heal them.
and then and only then
will some of the true illness be seen so it can be addressed.

who believes everything you see or hear in the media???-
i.e who then says this is real and this is not???
WHEN YOU ARE IN THE CAR between work and macdonalds
just remeber...you are still living!!!

peace...love...and missery to all greedmerchants.

Originally posted by Firefly

What do you think justice is? Prison? Death?

not versed in sharia:D

Originally posted by Firefly
Squid V - Well, I think they shoudl be taught the error of their ways. :rolleyes:


Yes, yes, blah, blah... HOW?

Geez, I shoulda come back to this thread earlier. Well, it would be nice if they were alive to actually wanna change. There's any number of ways, rehab, de-culturising them, therapy (there may be psychological reason why they're so anxious to rape), prison etc etc. Ask a social therapist or sociologist.

You died with the second sentence.

My point is, hopefully the perpetrators didn't. :rolleyes:

Yeah ok... you'd prefer everyone survives, regardless of the hurt, misery and suffering they've inflicted on everyone else.

I say fuck em. they kill, they pay. They hurt, they pay. They inflict, they pay. They do anything to affect everyone elses' quality of life, they pay.

You take, you pay.
You give, you don't pay.

You learn, you gain reprieve.
You don't learn, you pay.

Your alternative?

Not regardless of hurt, misery and suffering. But as the victims don't want hurt inflicted on them, neither do the rapists want death.

If it's murder, then maybe they deserve to be killed. But anything less, and the punishment should also accordingly be lessened.

What would you think if Person X was gang raped or raped as a child or whatever, and got psychologically messed up, and in turn became a serial rapist? You think they would have deserved the original rape that triggered it all? Or you think they should have therapy to help them get over it, stop them lashing out at others? Or just killed?

Oh, stop... you're making me cry.

I think, that in the main I'm very tired of hearing everybody blame someone else for their problems.

"My parents hated me"
"i was raped when i was a kid"
etc etc.

Some of this might be true, and of course is somewhat mitigating. However, plenty of others go through similar experiences and DON'T go off the rails. Where's the difference? A human being is capable of making decisions, including NOT to hurt others, regardless of life experience. The ones who do so have an exuse to be angry, but NOT to take that out on others. End of story.

The later generations refuse to accept responsibility for their own actions. It's something which we are encouraging to happen everyday, but allowing light sentencing and weak responses to crime. No wonder no-one accepts blame anymore... we encourage them not to.

We breed our own failures.

Originally posted by Squid Vicious
Oh, stop... you're making me cry.
That was not the intended effect. :rolleyes:


I think, that in the main I'm very tired of hearing everybody blame someone else for their problems.
Yes, aren't you tired of people blaming rapists for being raped, it's all the victim's fault really, why try to deny it? :rolleyes:


A human being is capable of making decisions, including NOT to hurt others, regardless of life experience. The ones who do so have an exuse to be angry but NOT to take that out on others. End of story.
Um, hello, kinda contradictiong yourself there? You "have an exuse to be angry," and yet against your own words you want to kill the perpetrators as opposed to NOT to take that out on others.


The later generations refuse to accept responsibility for their own actions. It's something which we are encouraging to happen everyday, but allowing light sentencing and weak responses to crime.
I wasn't saying they're not responsible for crimes they commit, while undergoing therapy or something, they could undergo it in prison, or community service or something. It's one thing to accept responsibility, and another to stop the crimes from generally happening. And killing the rapists that are caught isn't gonna stop more springing up.

And about light sentences - I never said the justice system was perfect, far from it, it is hugely flawed, but that's a whole other matter.


We breed our own failures.
Well, uh, who else is gonna?

You should learn to read more carefully firefly... you interpret some things in a rather odd manner.

Well, I'm a rather odd person at times. :p

Think we should probably agree to disgree on this though.

who kills those,
who kill the wrong person???

i think this is a valid point would anyone like me to kill thier mother because she is the one that gave the lethal injection to the wrongly convicted girl for rape or murder???

cant wait to see if anyone wants to address the real issues!!!

:D

peace love and chocolate from above :)

"Real issues"? heard it all before.

Now, how is that different from someone who is put in jail or therapy of some description, convinces the authorities they're sane, gets let out for good behaviour, and goes on a killing spree wiping out three families?

That argument works for both "sides" and means zip. try again.

This is the second thread Adam has posted trying to get rid of pakistan, the last one was a mockery.

Yep. I hate Pakistan. Not the people necessarily, but the country and culture. I also hate Israel, and often Palestine. I hate Taliban-ruled Afghanistan, I hate Saudi Arabia, and several other countries.

heyya all

squid...
QUOTE...

"Real issues"? heard it all before.

Now, how is that different from someone who is put in jail or therapy of some description, convinces the authorities they're sane, gets let out for good behaviour, and goes on a killing spree wiping out three families?

That argument works for both "sides" and means zip. try again.


__________________
"Society is the Institutional Prevention of Natural Selection"
=================
now you are applying the "lets fix the broken engine with the big sledge hammer" philosophy!
i would also change the systems and types of people running such institutions so dont evaluate new ideas with old faulted pschologicaly flawed philosophys(peddalled by the freaks!)


adam...
QUOTE...
Yep. I hate Pakistan. Not the people necessarily, but the country and culture. I also hate Israel, and often Palestine. I hate Taliban-ruled Afghanistan, I hate Saudi Arabia, and several other countries.
==========
you are sounding too much like an american arms dealer trying to do some 'social marketing'!!!

ISRAEL was (as i understand it) created by the U$A for a place to dump all the Jews and thier insuing social problems from the 'second world war'
cos who wants people screaming for equal rites in a country that wants to abolish them in light of thier true history(huge profit from slavery).
so ISRAEL are just as much socialy engineered as india and pakistan...
do you see my point?
... where is the nazi gold?
... where are the nazi scientist!!!
i think maybe MOST countrys are guilty of war profitearing and genocide in some manner...
the problem is within the individual who is preaching while feeding !!!
try not to judge with murder as others seek justice by murder!
how can you blame countrys that are being manipulated into war for trying to stop the genocide by what ever resources they have???
there is farr too much mentill ilnes in all governments as it is in all people(which is un-addressed) to use thier strange values to judge sickness by using genocide.

groove on all

peace, love, and chocolates from above :D

:)

Yep. I hate Pakistan. Not the people necessarily, but the country and culture. I also hate Israel, and often Palestine. I hate Taliban-ruled Afghanistan, I hate Saudi Arabia, and several other countries.
what other countries? i am genuinly interested.

the hated countries appear to be either semitic and/or moslem

:D

yeh, thats what i thought, thats why i wanted to know the other ones he hates.

Originally posted by spookz
the hated countries appear to be either semitic and/or moslem

:D
I also hate Rwanda, some things about Mexico, some things about the USA, South Africa, India, some things about China, Turkey, Sweden just gets on the list for personal reasons, and maybe a few others I can't think of right now.

My reasons for disliking these countries (with the exception of Sweden) are based solely on their merits or lack of them. To leap to the "RACIST!!!" conclusion is basically small-minded and pathetic.

hey, i wasnt going to judge, i was merely waiting to see what other countries you hate. now i know it cant be a matter of race.

heyya all :)

Adam...
heyya dude...
just a little opinion of mine...
hate kills love!
try not to hate
it only lets the bad guys win more easily!

adam... think of this...
(sorry all, its kinda weird but try to run with it till you feel the crazzyness calling then go to a safe place!)

imagine you got your wish... as such
and all the pakistan people were tied-up infront of you...
you are given a knife...
how many men,women and children would you stab and slash to death, with blood runnig down your arm with the smell of blood staining your nostrills untill you could smell nothing else, feeling warm from the dying heat as all the warm blood slowly clotted and made sticky your arms and legs,... heavy,warm,wet,stained,drenched in the still warm blood of the dying culture called pakistan!
... how many would you kill before you went crazzy???
or felt some form of satisfaction???
would you stop???
would you start????????????????

:)
peace and light
truth and sight
:)

Originally posted by ripleofdeath

imagine you got your wish... as such
and all the pakistan people were tied-up infront of you...
you are given a knife...
how many men,women and children would you stab and slash to death, with blood runnig down your arm with the smell of blood staining your nostrills untill you could smell nothing else, feeling warm from the dying heat as all the warm blood slowly clotted and made sticky your arms and legs,... heavy,warm,wet,stained,drenched in the still warm blood of the dying culture called pakistan!
... how many would you kill before you went crazzy???
or felt some form of satisfaction???
would you stop???
would you start????????????????

ARE YOU FUGGIN NUTS???

When did I ever mention liking genocide? You make truly amazing leaps of non-logic.

heyya all :)
adam...

where is your one good reason with basic reasoning as a communicible theory???
you have started a thread with a racialy biassed concept of value and then given it progressive enlargement through distructive means to "fix"(???) a problem of its mear existance! ???
WITH LAWS WHICH YOU HAVE SOLELY judged apropriate and then APPLIED as a single persons views.
surely you need to talk to some of the pakistanian people in there own country before you can profess to even pondering on social value and ethnic worth to continue, in... individualy respected and protected self existance!!!
denial of the single " 'alien' being" is kinda gun-ho anti-anything that moves american GI stereotype idolization!!!

... ya reckon ???
with a bit of i wanna kill somtin cos i feel me a gittin restles like!
(not the sole domination of the u$a, but most, media, pushed through shear numbers)
defining a middle ground through stereotyping is not too good!!!
in my opinion.

:)
:)

Saw in another thread:


NEWS: Pakistan Gang Rape Trial Begins

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DERA GHAZI KHAN, Pakistan (AP) — Fourteen men went on trial Friday over the gang rape of a woman in a remote Pakistani village, an attack ordered by a tribal council to punish the victim's family.

More.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

where is your one good reason with basic reasoning as a communicible theory???

My one good reason: Pakistan houses a culture which not only condones gang rape as a social control, but promotes it.



you have started a thread with a racialy biassed concept...

You apparently don't know what the word "racist" means. I dislike the nation Pakistan, and I dislike the culture it houses. I made no mention of disliking the race living there.



WITH LAWS WHICH YOU HAVE SOLELY judged apropriate and then APPLIED as a single persons views.

It is my duty to judge others, as a responsible human being. Not judging is irresponsible. If you see a guy raping a women in your front garden, will you leave him to it, since it's not your duty to judge him? I doubt it. We all have the right and the duty to judge.



surely you need to talk to some of the pakistanian people in there own country before you can profess to even pondering on social value and ethnic worth to continue, in... individualy respected and protected self existance!!!

No, I don't need to talk to Pakistanis in Pakistan to know that a culture which promotes gang rape as a social control should be eliminated.



denial of the single " 'alien' being" is kinda gun-ho anti-anything that moves american GI stereotype idolization!!!

That is senseless and irrelevent.



with a bit of i wanna kill somtin cos i feel me a gittin restles like!

I'm not even sure what language you are using there.

heya all :)

Adam...

Space Monkey
QUOTE...
I have a chip in my arse that lets them control my thoughts
=========
could you please exlain what you mean by these terms/statements... ?
Re: "spacemonkey"
and
"I have a chip in my arse that lets them control my thoughts"

if the reasons are too personal i understand.

++++++++
one more question...
what would you do with the people who live in pakistan while you are destroying the culture??
and
do the buildings/religouse houses of worship/schools/universitys constitute culture???
would you bomb them or bulldoz them???
i am very curiouse as to how you would action this "thing" called erradication....
i hope i have missunderstood your intentions as to the means of social revolution...

groove on all :)
peace, love and respect to all life...regardless of age, religion or gender.

I have a chip in my arse that lets them control my thoughts
=========
could you please exlain what you mean by these terms/statements... ?

It's a joke, about all the conspiracy nuts who think the CIA and NASA are beaming thoughts into their heads.



one more question...
what would you do with the people who live in pakistan while you are destroying the culture??
and
do the buildings/religouse houses of worship/schools/universitys constitute culture???

You have a military takeover. The occupying military force institutes new laws; those who don't obey go to jail immediately. Very soon people will get the message that gang rape is a no-no. Why use the military for the institution of new laws in this way? Because the military is more immediate and effective in this regard than any civilian mechanisms.

Does this military-takeover thing work? Can it result in a decent democratic nation? Yes, absolutely. It worked in East Timor.

Adamski luv, Riple's posts are like Ouchy the Clown (http://www.fadetoblack.com/sexorama/ouchytheclown/) - both disturbing and utterly hilarious. ;)

There is, however, about as much point in arguing with somone as closed minded as he as there is point in bashing your head against the wall.

Originally posted by Adam

My one good reason: Pakistan houses a culture which not only condones gang rape as a social control, but promotes it.



"DERA GHAZI KHAN, Pakistan (AP) — Fourteen men went on trial Friday over the gang rape of a woman in a remote Pakistani village, an attack ordered by a tribal council to punish the victim's family.

All the accused pleaded not guilty, according to defense lawyer Malik Saleem. The four accused of rape face death by hanging. The others face jail terms.

The June 22 gang-rape stunned the country, highlighting the low status of women in remote rural areas, where tribal councils often resolve disputes following ancient codes of honor and revenge"

so what is the culture in pakistan?
one that promotes and sanctifies gang rape?
one that brings the gang rapists to justice?

the sharia might be pretty brutal in the penalties it metes out for trangressions of the law but i doubt that gang rape is included.


Originally posted by Adam


You have a military takeover. The occupying military force institutes new laws; those who don't obey go to jail immediately. Very soon people will get the message that gang rape is a no-no. Why use the military for the institution of new laws in this way? Because the military is more immediate and effective in this regard than any civilian mechanisms.

Does this military-takeover thing work? Can it result in a decent democratic nation? Yes, absolutely. It worked in East Timor.

what is this? some kind of fascist drama you are turning into the movie of the week?

Actually you can see by the opening report of this thread that gang rape is included. Unfortunately the moderen legal system in that country is at odds with the culture it rties to police, at odds with a culture which promotes such horrible acts.

as for military takeover working for east timor.....

some stats>
;they were invaded by indonesia
;occupied by them for 24 yrs
;an estimated 200,000 East Timorese dead from war, famine and disease in the years directly following the invasion in 1975
;hundreds more killed, disappeared, tortured and dispossessed under Indonesia's military occupation
;and, in the past few months, two-thirds of the population terrorised and forced to flee under an army-backed reign of terror aimed at spoiling the UN supervised referendum.

your brutal solutions are inhumane
please reconsider and perhaps adopt a policy of non-interference
(the prime directive) :D

Originally posted by Adam
Actually you can see by the opening report of this thread that gang rape is included. Unfortunately the moderen legal system in that country is at odds with the culture it rties to police, at odds with a culture which promotes such horrible acts.

and as such; you/nato/america would rather be at odds with the various medieval sub cultures in pakistan than letting their own legal system deal with it?

very benevolent i must say
:D

1) You mentioned a lot of trouble in East Timor under Indonesian rule.

2) Please show some credible source for your claims that two thirds of the East Timorese population has been forced to flee since UN forces arrived. This should be a neat trick.

3) You have a warped sense of what is humane and inhumane. If you saw some girl being raped, would you simply go for non-interference? Or would you interfere?

Of course he wouldn't interfere Adam... he wouldnt want to get his hands dirty. 200,000 dead after an invasion? That means nothing. After all, his principles are FAR more valuable than a few East Timorese...

oh, and spookz... WHICH army was doing the terrorising? You seem reluctant to say...

squid
the violence referred to was perpetrated by east timorese militia (backed by the indonesian army) The confusion here is i think is the phrase "military takeover". that to me can mean a coup or an external invasion and is not associated with the un.

here is a timeline
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/903657.stm

adam
the only military takeover in east timor was thru the indonesians.
are you referring to un peacekeeping actions as a military takeover?
do you think un soldiers wrote the laws in east timor?
at best they provided a secure environment for the locals to work with
the un has civilians to administer transitions to local rule

un in e timor
http://www.un.org/peace/etimor/UntaetB.htm

is the question about the "girl being raped" your way of justifying as to why pakistan has to be taken over thru military action?
the timores asked for intervention, i supported that.
what have the pakistanis done? do you see them asking for un intervention?
does national sovereignity mean anything?


Originally posted by spookz

;and, in the past few months, two-thirds of the population terrorised and forced to flee under an army-backed reign of terror aimed at spoiling the UN supervised referendum.


taken from a 1999 news report and was before the un troops arrived.
where did i claim this happened after un troops arrived?


i will interfere in the rape provided i prevail. if the odds are not in my favor i will call 911

i give you two options, rape a girl or see a hundred do the same to her
(just kidding:D )

heyya all

yo spookz... :)
--
it is obviouse to me that
Adam (if it is a guy) has had a girlfriend (or friend) raped and feels like he
has no power to change it!
poor girl i hope she will meet someone with an open heart as well as an open mind.

and maybe Xev is in the same boat from another angle???

we can see what you call entertainment and its kinda sad how you feel you need to self mutalate because of the inner torment you suffer from sexual problems!

i am truely sad you have allowed it to control your thoughts and impresions of all others that are not as outwardly authoritarian and narrow minded as you...

if you took the time to read some of my posts you would understand my point of view better...
that is when you wipe the fear from your heart.

spookz...
sadly they seem to need to inflict pain on someone because they feel powerless!!!
it may be too late for them but i have hope...
even when they show none!

RE: east timour
australian and new zealand MILITARY helped train the troops that have been ordered by the indonesian leader to murder and terrorise the east timor people.
they have killed an estimated
1 million people from the 1974 orriginal invasion... :(
there is even tv film that was on NZ tv showing the troops killing people!!!!!!!!!
that i believe was most likely supported by the UK and U$A
all the time the indonesian army were being trained and in military exercise with AUSTRALIAN AND NEW ZEALAND FORCES.
i hope both countrys havedistanced themselfs from the inevitable civil war that must happen sooner or later.

war is only justified if you are not in it!
according to the way it seems to go in the world!

when we see countrys promoting peace through civil reponsablity it will be on the mend!
but the truth is that most people look for the easyest solution for thier greed and dont want to think about others suffering
so pretend it does not happen...
this is the duality that bad people use as a foundation to build hate
and it seems they are very effective with a few on this board!

peace and light
truth and love

You are an insular, worthless, pathetic little bigot with the decency of a parasitic fungus.


and maybe Xev is in the same boat from another angle???

A: No.

B: Even if I had been raped, I don't think it could ever be construed as a fault of my character.

For you to use such as an insult proves you to be one of the lowest, slimiest and most disgusting little flukes of human potential that I have ever seen in my 18 years on this planet. You make me sick.

I hope to Cthulhu that you aren't this way in the mundane world, you loathsome, putrescent little nematode.

You are lower than the precambrian ooze. You have no innate goodness of heart, no moral sense, no decency, no heart and no brain. You have one of the most twisted and perverse drives to power that I have ever seen.

I had thought your previous posts were rather idiotic, and had hoped you would one day reach rock bottom and leave. Now it seems you've hit rock bottom only to hire a backhoe to start digging.

Your attempt to insult me using a nonexistant event has only backfired. It proves a mirror into your very soul - or rather, whatever loathsome ooze you call a personality.

Note that next time you attempt to use such an insult. And seek psychiatric help, you sick fuck.

heyya all

dear Xev
it seems i have struck a cord!
sorry if i have unduly hurt your feelings!
you seem to like insulting people but then take
scientific reference to be personaly insulting.

you seem to try to create the impression of great knoledge of human nature
yet you seem (in your above posts and other threads) to be throughing insults at people who dare to imagine the impossible as you see it)

as you have said you are 18 years old!
why do you harbour soo much hate?

are you not aware of the Extreemly important NEED for people who have been abused, to have even-minded, patient, non-biggoted, life-experienced, CONSTRUCTIVE people helping them?
who have some grasp of the nature of cause and effect psychology?
especialy on a sexual bassis!

THE people i have counselled in regard to sexual abuse and suicide do not share your great need to kill somthing, IN-GENERAL!

and it is my experience... (with working with these people) that thier friends are usualy the ones blinded by rage to a point of only making things worse for the victim!

do you now see the depth in which i am discussing such deeply seated psychological issues, with a method of relative comparrison to implyed references by you and other people!!!

it only seems to be a distructive and sexualy masacistic mentality(or maybe sadistic) that YOU WOULD POST SUCH A LINK in a SCIENTIFIC forum!
especialy when we are attempting to discuss the morral fibre of a
culture on the knife-edge of global change!

if you dont want me to evalute the psychosis of your insults...
STOP MAKING THEM!!!
i never intend to insult anyone.
i mearly attempt to help them by pointing out what i deduct as to be the underlying issues!

light and love
truth and peace
a peice of truth to help light love :)
or just a another crazzy moral idealist...
you choose :D

it seems i have struck a cord!
sorry if i have unduly hurt your feelings!

Dream on. Ye canna hurt my feelings because you mean nothing to me personally. However, you needed to be dealt with.

Insulting a person by claiming that they are a victim of rape classifies you as "scum" in my eyes, with a specification for genus being "fuckwit".


you seem to like insulting people but then take
scientific reference to be personaly insulting.

Nope, don't enjoy insulting people. Constructing a flame is a challenge I enjoy, but that's about it.

Scientific? You wouldn't know science if it bit you in the arse.


you seem to try to create the impression of great knoledge of human nature
yet you seem (in your above posts and other threads) to be throughing insults at people who dare to imagine the impossible as you see it)

I have no great "knoledge" of human nature. I know what must be done, and I really don't care what gets in the way.

I am strong. The strong have a duty (if you believe Nietzsche) to protect the weak.

As for throwing insults at those who imagine the impossible, I doubt it. My entire existance should be seen as impossible - and yet I am.


as you have said you are 18 years old!
why do you harbour soo much hate?

A lifetime of seeing the weak oppress the weak, I suppose.


THE people i have counselled in regard to sexual abuse and suicide do not share your great need to kill somthing, IN-GENERAL!

*Smiles*

My will to power is not so weak in that regard. I have no desire to kill anything. I simply wish to protect those weaker than myself.

Sometimes this involves killing.


do you now see the depth in which i am discussing such deeply seated psychological issues, with a method of relative comparrison to implyed references by you and other people!!!

Quack. You don't even have a basic knowledge of paraphilia/devient sexual behaviour.

Go back to reading Castanada, twat.


it only seems to be a distructive and sexualy masacistic mentality(or maybe sadistic) that YOU WOULD POST SUCH A LINK in a SCIENTIFIC forum!
especialy when we are attempting to discuss the morral fibre of a
culture on the knife-edge of global change!

"Masachistic"? Reminds one of the Latin root "masticare" as in "to chew"

Which makes utterly no sense. Firstoff, we are not in a science sub-forum, we are in an ethics subforum.

Secondly, exactly what a "sexually chewing/grinding/crushing with teeth" mentality means is beyond me.

I enjoy chewing on my partners? Oooookay. I don't think even Sacher Masoch went there.

Nor, when I think about it, did de Sade.

Perhaps you are thinking of "masochistic", stemming from the name of Leopold von Sacher Masoch (http://homepage.newschool.edu/~schlemoj/imptopia/sacher-masoch.html) which Dr. Richard von Krafft-Ebing (http://www.wellcome.ac.uk/en/library/homlib/HOMlibCOLspeWESrke.html) used to describe this phenomena (http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/sci/A0832098.html)

Or perhaps you are simply an idiot.

I mean, you claim to have experience in psychology/psychiatry yet you haven't even the most basic understanding of sexual paraphilias?

Good heavens. Are you normally this stupid or are you making a special effort for me?

Moving right along....


if you dont want me to evalute the psychosis of your insults...
STOP MAKING THEM!!!
i never intend to insult anyone.
i mearly attempt to help them by pointing out what i deduct as to be the underlying issues!

Sweetie, it's a joke between Adamski the Fish-Boy and I. Just as "fish boy" is a joke between the two of us.

In any case, sadomasochism is not classified in the DSM-IV, although I believe there is a entry for sexual sadism - a different thing entirely.

I have a DSM-III lying around somewhere, do you want me to transcribe part of the entry?

However, sexual - hmmm, shall we say deviences? are not the same thing as psychosis (http://www.aacap.org/about/glossary/Psychos.htm). They are sometimes classified as paraphilia (http://cancerweb.ncl.ac.uk/cgi-bin/omd?paraphilia) and sometimes regarded as a somewhat hmmm- exotic - sexual practice, much in the same way as homosexuality once was.

Anyhow, insulting a person by claiming that they are the victim of a rape is a twee bit low, don't you think?

Perhaps you feel that this would be a loss of power, thus you were implying such a victim is weak?

In which case, I hope to Cthulhu that you never explore these feelings.

As I asked before, please see a competent psychiatrist.

Edit to add:

And no, I don't enjoy chewing on my sexual partners. I don't think I've ever even tried it. :p

You are an insular, worthless, pathetic little bigot with the decency of a parasitic fungus.Funny, that ... I had always thought it was just me. Oh, well.

Um, Rip ... since you're dealing with someone who doesn't think she's communicating unless she's insulting people, you should get used to such statements being considered (A) intelligent, and (B) respectful.

I know, I know.

But at least it's not an ad hominem attack. Given that Xev has complained about people insulting one another and behaving badly, at least she didn't resort to ad hominem and make a hypocrite of herself.
Dream on. Ye canna hurt my feelings because you mean nothing to me personally. However, you needed to be dealt with.I actually figured it was that you had no feelings to hurt, Xev. You parade around here like a tinfoil-encrusted Queen of All Things waving your Wand of Vitriol as if Tony1 or KalvinB were the best things you could aspire to.

One of the things about rape survivors and the kind of rage you show is that it's important for Ripleofdeath to know one way or another. In one case, the childish tantrums you throw are understandable and need to be dealt with sensitively. In the other case, you, Xev, simply need to calm down.

Perhaps if you spent a little more of your energy on your intellect and a little less on presenting a stylish persona whose best answer to anything is insults and anger, I might find the present exchange you're in to be a little less hilarious.

Or, to be specific, being a child is no excuse for your behavior. Grow up and act like an adult, and you'll be treated as an adult. But your Q-rating is sinking, and the only way to redeem a Q-rating that is plummeting like yours is to stop chasing image.

Excitable, yes, but a dragonlord you are not. I mean,
Anyhow, insulting a person by claiming that they are the victim of a rape is a twee bit low, don't you think?Insulting? It's a fair question when you're being this sensitive about a subject. Why don't you document that insult specifically, and explain to us why you feel insulted. If you make a good enough case, I'm sure Rip will apologize; he's very good about those things.

But if you're going to throw a temper tantrum, why be as unreasonable as a trailer-park born-again Christian teenage mother? Try being a little more reasonable, take it a little slower, and stop vomiting out your rage while you don't know what you're angry at.

Maybe you actually have a case. Or a point. Don't know, can't tell through the thick anger bleeding from your post.

--Tiassa :cool:

heyya all :)

tiassa...
maybe i will ask you to edit all my posts before i submit? :D
(its ok i would not subject you to such a question) :D
your interpretation of my ramblings and bad spelling is a testament of "hope" that the underlying premise of the ability to communicate has not been lost completely.
:)
Castanada = Apprenticeship ??? we all know that is a dirty word in this day and age :D :(


Quote...
Xev...
I mean, you claim to have experience in psychology/psychiatry
========
that is what you claim me to have!

that is not what i said!

My experience is in counseling of people in life crisis situations in regard to the theory upon which i have expanded from.
i have never, and will never proclaim to be a psychologist or psychiatrist...
this is just as much for ethical reasons as any other!
i congratulate you on your ability to demonstrate you can view 2 different meanings from one misspelt word! :)
this is a testament to what i hope to be your willingness to learn
in as many forms as possible :)

mistakes of the young at heart can be made at any age...
mistakes of the young of age can only be made before you realise your are not young...
to err is human
to err and repeat it
is the trap humanity is in
break the cycles!

peace and light
truth and love

:)

Tiassa:

Dude, get laid.


But at least it's not an ad hominem attack. Given that Xev has complained about people insulting one another and behaving badly, at least she didn't resort to ad hominem and make a hypocrite of herself.

Liar. I've never complained about insults per se.


I actually figured it was that you had no feelings to hurt, Xev. You parade around here like a tinfoil- encrusted Queen of All Things waving your Wand of Vitriol as if Tony1 or KalvinB were the best things you could aspire to.

Hmmm, good point. I don't really have much in the way of feelings to hurt.

Tony1? Now Tiassa luv, you know I don't like hearing his name, 'specially since he left before I could propose to him.

*Sniffles*

This is more posy of ring than prolouge, so let me get straight to the point:

Ripleofdeath:

Apology would be nice, but seems that it won't be forthcoming. Ciao.

Originally posted by Adam
Some nations and cultures simply don't deserve to exist. They should be eradicated entirely. Not the people, but the nations and cultures. The real question is .... " Who decides ? " :D

- Sivakami.

Originally posted by ssivakami
The real question is .... " Who decides ? " :D

I do. r you do. Anyone can. The idea that we don't have the right to judge and to shape this world is pathetic and ridiculous. Again, in answer to your question: I decide.

The idea that we don't have the right to judge and to shape this world is pathetic and ridiculous.

I decide a pint of Finlandia into my hand, 2 million dollars into my bank account, all the morons in the world to be gone from the world, and Friedrich Nietzsche into my room.

Ain't working.:(

Go buy some vodka. Work harder. Get a gun. Steal a corpse.

Go buy some vodka. Work harder. Get a gun. Steal a corpse.

Spoken like a true athiest. :p

An Atheist loves his fellow man instead of a god. An Atheist knows
that heaven is something for which we should work now--here on earth
--for all men together to enjoy. An Atheist knows that he can get no help
through prayer but that he must find within himself the inner conviction
and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue it and to enjoy it.
An Atheist knows that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of
his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help to a life of fulfillment.
An Atheist seeks to know himself then and his fellow rather than to know a god.
An Atheist understands that a hospital must be built instead of a church.
An Atheist knows that a deed must be done instead of a prayer said.
An Atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death.
He wants disease conquered, poverty vanquished, war eliminated.
He wants man to understand, love and accept all of mankind. He wants
an ethical way of life. He knows that we cannot rely on a god, channel
action into prayer, or hope for an end to our troubles in a hereafter.
He knows that we are not only our brother's keepers--but keepers of our own
lives foremost, that we are responsible persons and that the job is here
and the time is now. [Murray vs. Curlett]374 U.S. 203

And I add:

An athiest digs up the corpses of dead philosophers in order to discuss the will to power with them!

Only pity is....well, I'd like Freddy alive, if you know what I mean. Rwwwwwl.

Originally posted by Xev

Only pity is....well, I'd like Freddy alive, if you know what I mean. Rwwwwwl.
The other day you were talking so much about necrophilia, I wondered... :p

The other day you were talking so much about necrophilia, I wondered...

You big meanie head! I was just getting back for all those Bushatrix comments!

I can't even watch him on tv or hear him on the news now. :( "Oh Bushatrix, destroy my civil liberties"

*Xev sulks*

Originally posted by Adam
I do. r you do. Anyone can. The idea that we don't have the right to judge and to shape this world is pathetic and ridiculous. Again, in answer to your question: I decide. You apparently did not get my point. If you ask a Pakistani, he/she would obviously say that Pakistan deserves to exist. But India might not say so. Palestine might say Israel does not deserve to exist and vice versa ! China might say that the USA did not deserve to exist. So what do you do ... take a world vote ?! And does every nation have an equal weightage ? How do you decide ?!

Noone's saying that we dont have the right to judge and shape the world ... but you're partisaning the world and letting one part decide for the other ... !

- Sivakami.

I, personally, make the judgement that countries like Australia and the USA and Japan, have the right to crush countries such as Pakistan. Why? Because Pakistan houses a culture which promotes gang rape as a social control. My country does not. Now, apart from Australia's complete lack of military might, I personally judge that my country has the right to wipe out that other culture which promotes and uses gang rape as a social control. Every person on Earth has the right to decide that, or not.

in the english justice system there have been several instances in which rape victims were routinely blamed for the crime. sexual history,attire,,class were taken into account.
thus in an indirect manner; if women transgress from societal norms, the
courts say that they deserve to be punished by rape

http://www.feminist.com/news/news39.html

what do we do about jolly old england ai??

on the other hand we have usa with a prevalence of false accusations of rape and the resulting convictions

http://christianparty.net/judicialactivism.htm

Originally posted by Adam
I, personally, make the judgement that countries like Australia and the USA and Japan, have the right to crush countries such as Pakistan. Why? Because Pakistan houses a culture which promotes gang rape as a social control. My country does not. Now, apart from Australia's complete lack of military might, I personally judge that my country has the right to wipe out that other culture which promotes and uses gang rape as a social control. Every person on Earth has the right to decide that, or not.
That isn't a right by any stretch of imagination.
Thats the "might is right" attitude. :)
Every culture has, at some point of time, condoned and blatantly encouraged atrocities.

- Sivakami.

Originally posted by ssivakami

That isn't a right by any stretch of imagination.
Thats the "might is right" attitude. :)

On the contrary, it is the "I take responsibility for my world" attitude. Refusing to judge others is irresponsible and weak.

Where might is right there is no right
You went to death with open eyes

--Chorus to Antigone, Sophocles, Antigone.

When one embraces the fact that right is dependent on power, one loses the protection that the belief in absolute rights once gave.

If I say it is perfectly ethical for me to start shooting strangers, because I have the power to do that, I lose the protection that having them not feel the same gave me.

Or I can be a hypocrite....not an appealing option.

I think that people like Adam and I, who accept this responsibility, "go to death with open eyes".

BTW, a statement like "there is no right or wrong, only power" is as silly as saying "there are no invisible purple unicorns, only invisible pink ones".

Originally posted by Adam

On the contrary, it is the "I take responsibility for my world" attitude. Refusing to judge others is irresponsible and weak. Oh, really ?
And I wonder how responsible you would feel if it were decided by others that its your country that has to be destroyed ?!

- Sivakami.

heyya all :)

# please note; Australia is not connected to New Zealand!

please target navigational systems carefully!!! :D

Australia still refuses to serve aboriginals in some of thier bars!!!
up untill a few years ago it was considered sport to go out and shoot them!

Australia now imprisons women and children for being refugees and treats them like cattle [#cattle would be treated better]
just like the americans in cuba!!!
treating people like unwanted animals ready for slaughter!

and they dare to call them selfs humans!
it makes me embarrised to be considered a human!!!

adam... your indonesian friends are just above your head!!!
3rd largest army in the world .. i think?
and run by the lust for money!
you better carry a big stick to protect your uranium mines!!
i dont want your bad wind!!!

peace light
truth love

:)

Getting a little tired of doing this same argument over again, but Adam is essentially correct... WE decide what is right. If we do not, we may find we are no longer in a position to do anything.

Sivakami,
You follow a point of view stating that none of us has any right to alter others beliefs because nobody knows what truth is. If this is so, why do you not allow a murderer to do what he does? because you KNOW what kinds of behaviour are detrimental to humanity as a whole. Because without some basic controls, humanity would sink further into the morass it is currently already in. Scale is incidental.

Originally posted by Squid Vicious
Sivakami,
You follow a point of view stating that none of us has any right to alter others beliefs because nobody knows what truth is. If this is so, why do you not allow a murderer to do what he does? because you KNOW what kinds of behaviour are detrimental to humanity as a whole. Because without some basic controls, humanity would sink further into the morass it is currently already in. Scale is incidental. Its different for a legal system. Because for one, it operates within the same country/state. And secondly, noone destroys an entire state just because its legal system has become sloppy.
You're solution (and Adams) involves cutting off a limb if there's a wound in it ! Thats not how it works :)

- Sivakami.

more like chopping the head off

the issue here is specific, gang rape in pakistan, assumption that it is condoned by the pakistani state and as such the eradication of the culture

Originally posted by ssivakami
Its different for a legal system. Because for one, it operates within the same country/state. And secondly, noone destroys an entire state just because its legal system has become sloppy.
You're solution (and Adams) involves cutting off a limb if there's a wound in it ! Thats not how it works :)

- Sivakami.

Hmm, and your solution of letting the arm rot and the poison spread because you have no idea how to cure it is in some way superior?

Secondly, are you suggesting that a nations legal system should follow different moral guidelines to its foreign policy? Why?

Thirdly, this has less as much to do with the legal system of any country in particular, and more to do with a culture who's beliefs are somewhat... skewed.

Australia still refuses to serve aboriginals in some of thier bars!!!
up untill a few years ago it was considered sport to go out and shoot them!

I'm sure you can provide some evidence of this. It is quite a surprise to me.



Australia now imprisons women and children for being refugees and treats them like cattle [#cattle would be treated better]
just like the americans in cuba!!!
treating people like unwanted animals ready for slaughter!

I would say they are being treated exactly like people who are carrying diseases we don't have in Australia, and like people who could be serial killers until we confirm they are not, and so on. I'll start a thread on this matter - again.



and they dare to call them selfs humans!
it makes me embarrised to be considered a human!!!

Please feel free to call yourself something other than human.



adam... your indonesian friends are just above your head!!!
3rd largest army in the world .. i think?
and run by the lust for money!
you better carry a big stick to protect your uranium mines!!
i dont want your bad wind!!!

And now you support the need for military forces? Good.

Originally posted by ssivakami
Oh, really ?
And I wonder how responsible you would feel if it were decided by others that its your country that has to be destroyed ?!


If my country housed and supported a system which promoted and used gang rape as a social control, I'd be quite happy for my country to be invaded, conquered, and entirely rebuilt.

Originally posted by Adam


If my country housed and supported a system which promoted and used gang rape as a social control, I'd be quite happy for my country to be invaded, conquered, and entirely rebuilt.



did you by any chance run that by your mother too?

:D

Yes, actually. My family is well aware of my political views and such.

They try to have him forcibly commited every now and then. :D

Originally posted by Adam
If my country housed and supported a system which promoted and used gang rape as a social control, I'd be quite happy for my country to be invaded, conquered, and entirely rebuilt. Lucky for you that can never be verified. :)
I just dont believe you !

- Sivakami.

Originally posted by Squid Vicious
Hmm, and your solution of letting the arm rot and the poison spread because you have no idea how to cure it is in some way superior?
You're assuming there is a cure. I'm doing no such thing. But I dont consider myself superior enough to decide who gets to live and who doesn't .... based on purely subjective criteria.
I consider Dubya as dangerous as UBL and I think religion is extremely harmful to humanity as a whole . But I dont think we should bomb all the religious fundamentalists . Because religion is in human nature (at least the 3 basic ingredients of it - objectification, commitment/surrender and myth - are). As much as xenophobia and ethnocentrism are.
If we have to tackle the very root of the problem, we have to change human nature.


Secondly, are you suggesting that a nations legal system should follow different moral guidelines to its foreign policy? Why? No, I am saying that the same principles should hold. All murder is murder .... whether it is done by people with fancy uniforms or no.


Thirdly, this has less as much to do with the legal system of any country in particular, and more to do with a culture who's beliefs are somewhat... skewed. And thats relative and subjective. Any culture will never consider its own beliefs skewed and only those of its opponents skewed. Hitler considered his beliefs secure and those of others skewed. Which is why he confidently proceeded to rid the world of what he considered evil - the Jews. What you're suggesting is no different.

- Sivakami.

Originally posted by ssivakami
Lucky for you that can never be verified. :)
I just dont believe you !

So you're calling me a liar? Moron. Pathetic little insular weasels like you, obsessed with borders and cultural isolation and such, are one of the major problems with the world.

Originally posted by Adam
So you're calling me a liar? No, I'm just saying that there's no way for me to differentiate between a liar and one whose comments cant be verified. :)


Moron. Pathetic little insular weasels like you, obsessed with borders and cultural isolation and such, are one of the major problems with the world. Ad Hominem, I see. Last I checked, that was listed as a logical fallacy :)

- Sivakami.

Originally posted by ssivakami

Ad Hominem, I see. Last I checked, that was listed as a logical fallacy

Like I care. You're still an insulting idiot.

Originally posted by Adam
Like I care. You're still an insulting idiot.

So you admit that your stance is an illogical one . And yet you call me an insulting idiot ?
Fascinating ... :)

- S.

Ad Hominem, I see. Last I checked, that was listed as a logical fallacy

No.

"Your argument is wrong because pathetic little insular weasels like you, obsessed with borders and cultural isolation and such, are one of the major problems with the world."

Is ad hominem.

"Moron. Pathetic little insular weasels like you, obsessed with borders and cultural isolation and such, are one of the major problems with the world."

Is an insult.

Learn the difference between a logical fallacy and an insult before using "logical fallacy" to describe an insult.

Looks like this thread is going nowhere....

But I like the fact that Adam is holding on to it like those cowboys on a mechanical bull....

Keep up the good work Adam....

I'm just having fun now. :p

Originally posted by Xev


No.

"Your argument is wrong because pathetic little insular weasels like you, obsessed with borders and cultural isolation and such, are one of the major problems with the world."

Is ad hominem.

"Moron. Pathetic little insular weasels like you, obsessed with borders and cultural isolation and such, are one of the major problems with the world."

Is an insult.

Learn the difference between a logical fallacy and an insult before using "logical fallacy" to describe an insult.

Maybe you should read up on logical fallacies a little ! :)
A personal attack, used during a rational (?) debate, very much constitutes an Ad Hominem logical fallacy. One doesn't have to explicitly state everytime that ... " I think your argument is wrong because you are $#$@!! " .

- S.

You realize that your bickering looks stupid beyond comprehension? Quit your bitching and let's get back to the topic here, and that is especially meant for Adam.

Bite me, fanboy. :p

heyya all :)

adam...
quote...
Hmm, and your solution of letting the arm rot and the poison spread
========
i understand your intension but there seems to be a basic lack of identification of the bassis of the "stated" situation...
one...
it was a tribal counsel that made the order...
two...
it is the country legal system that is now prosecuting the people who did the raping...
three...
we have seen no representaion from the countrys people that they agree or disagree...
... however...
we need to do 2 things to cure it at the same time...
we need to tech the children and cure the adults!!!
only one of those will not achive a result!
and children need thier parents!!!
and culture is what the parents teach and society allows...
to some points...
just as much...
AS WE COULD POINT THE FINGER AT "ANY" COUNTRY
that has had a person decide to go out and kill or rape another...
groups are no different than the indevidual!!!
its just that the idevidual hides behind the group!
like a cancer building cells around itself!!!
there is always a VICTIM and we need to cater for that!!!
not through them into concentration/re-education camps!!!
its a very difficult and expensive situation!
which... ofcoarse!
no one!!!...
wants to spend any money on!!!

groove on all :)

peace light
truth love
the path to that which we hold above

:)

That's me you're quoting ripple, not Adam. My ego is not small enough to allow it to pass.

On another note, your comments regarding Aboriginals not being served in bars and being shot for sport is ridiculous. The last time they weren't served in bars (In the remote north west where I live) was around the time Martin Luther King was being shot, and the last time they were hunted for sport was before the Maori war in 1846.

You got some catching up to do, Rip Van Winkle.

heyya all :)

sorry for the miss-quote squid... :o

story goes like this...
i have a friend who is maori!
she went to australia in... about... 1996!
she was refused service in bars and a few bar tenders
said to her "we dont want your sort in here"!
when she grabbed one of them (at the end of her teather)
and threatened to punch his lights out he said
"im sorry you look like a aboriginal"!!!
and that is why the bar tenders just ignore you and wont serve you and some will tell you to leave or they ring the police.

and...

i have been led to believe that the law did not recognise aboriginal people as a human species until about 1950 or around then, which meant they could be, ... and were because i have talked to the granson of "one who did it" went abbo shooting
in the late 40s.
soo...
it just depends on who you talk to and where you live!
* i am a white european looking male!- and there are parts of this country that i cannot go without protection of firearms, because i would be mugged or killed by "black people"!
so... it depends on what you call racism!
in this crazzy little multi cultured world of ... ? someones...

if you are going to quote nursery rhyms then i suggest you look very carefully at what they mean before they were distorted by
greedmerchants and power freaks!
just a a handy hint :D

groove on all :)