Wouldn't it be more rational to take the chance to go to heaven?

There are 2 possibilities regarding the existence of God (Gods/Godess/etc):

1) God doesn't exist
2) God exist

In both cases, people will surely expirience death, but what happens after that?

Let's take case 1 (God doesn't exist). Suppose in this case after death it's "the end" for the person. Then both atheist and theist will get the same thing. The end.

But suppose God exist. Then some people will go to heaven and some people will go to hell.

Wouldn't it be more rational to take the chance to go to heaven?

 

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This is a question that the philosopher Pascal posed way back when. In fact it is often called "Pascal's Wager".

To the theist, it holds water and makes perfect sense. But to the hyper-defensive atheist it is usually handled with mockery or other forms of impugnity.

It is a legitimate question, however, and one that any atheist while laying in bed at night, alone with the universe, can think about deeply if they choose. But they usually don't.

-Mike

 

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Heaven? I'd rather be an Atheist and not go to heaven. Heaven is just the ultimate dicatator state. No porn, no beer, no sex until your married, no burning of bibles: Why would anyone want to go there? Its completely against any and all freedoms we have as human beings.

 

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let me give you a hypathetical game

I have a rock, this rock wards off tigers, i am holding the rock right now no tigers around, see it works now, there are 2 possibilities concerning this rock

1) it really does ward off tigers and it could come in handy sometime

2) it is a bunch of hoopla that is just a STUPID ROCK

would you buy this rock from me, just in case it wards off tigers?

 

Simple

As an atheist, "Mr. I'm the perfect rationalist" does not want to simply base their belief in God on just that prospect. They want something more, an insatiable proof.

Any analogies that are made concerning believing in God or not will be senseless to "prove" their "superior rationality."

 

Well gamester you have to look at this as if you're more than an ancient European Christian. There are more than 2 chances.

1) No god exists
2) Christianity is right
3) Islam is right
4) JW is right
5) Judaism is right
6) Buddhism is right
7) None of these are right but there is a god

Choices 2-5 promise an afterlife - but how do you choose which one??

 

Not neccesarily. What does "God's" existance have to do with heaven or hell?

 

Blah. This was debunked about 300 years ago.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A517646

Chosen, hun, what's an insatiable proof? Sounds kinky.

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Despite the tone of his post, Chosen is pretty much correct hehe.

If you choose to be a "rational" human being, you will realize that basing a belief in God simply because it is the "safe" thing to do is not only preposterous - it undermines the people that truely have faith.

Search google for Pascal's wager - you will find many critiques and objections that do a better job than I would...

 

This pascal fellow seems unimaginative, uninspired and a little stupid.
To look at the universe and the best you can come up with is those two alternatives?
Hah!

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Hey UN, what do you know? You're only 12 years old.

 

It depends... How much is the rock?

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-Mike

 

==============================================
Tyler wrote:

2) Christianity is right
3) Islam is right
4) JW is right
5) Judaism is right

Choices 2-5 promise an afterlife - but how do you choose which one??
==============================================

Go with the one that believes in Jesus (the only religious figure in the world who did miracles, rose from the dead, and claimed to be God). I guess option #2 then.

- Islam arose as a reaction against, and an alternative to, Christianity and Judaism. Muhammed never performed miracles, never rose from the dead, and never claimed to be God.
- Jehovah's Witnesses, a cult, was started by a man named Charles Russell. They believe in salvation through works, and that only 144, 000 people total will go to Heaven.
- And Jews still live according to Mosaic Laws (see Leviticus), and are still looking for a coming Messiah.

-Mike

 

I would steal the rock, buy a gun, and see if the rock works. If it doesn't, I'd use the gun, and throw the rock at you for false advertising. And hey, I'm letting you off easy, there could easily be a lawsuit in this.

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Yes, of course! If heaven is all it is hyped up to be, then I'm there, rather than risk the wrath of Judgement Day and spend life in hell.

Homer: "How much is this free weekend?...And when is this free weekend?...Ok, so how much is this going to cost me?"
lol

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Always more than meets the eye. And please do not refer to me as "United Nations"

 

Jesus didnt perform miracles, nor did he rise from the dead. He never died in he firstplace.

 

Ekimklaw, telling Unregistered that his opinions are invalid because he is 12 is <b>not</b> a valid arguement for Pascal's wager. Winner: Unregistered.

Mike: the only religious figure in the world that a really old book says did miracles, rose from the dead, and claimed to be Shoddy Goddy.

Islam wasn't a reaction against: Islam was a reaction against the corruption of Judaism (which was true at the time, at least, Judaism was very corrupt) and the corruption of the Christianity of the time (catholic church, especially from that time), much like Protestantism. The only real difference between the beliefs of Christians and the beliefs of Muslims are these two things: belief of Muslims that Mohammed is a prophet, and belief of Muslims that Jesus is a prophet/belief of Christians that Jesus is God (or God's son, or both).

To me, Islam seems a much liklier chance to heaven over both Christianity, Judaism, and JW. I think, personally, if Shoddy-Goddy DID exist, and he was the Christian Shoddy-Goddy, that he might be willing to allow me into heaven on the fact that I believed he existed and that Weezus-Jesus was at least a prophet, he would certainly consider it much more than if I were an Atheist or a Jew. JW is rather small, plus it's essentially a Christianity-based cult so the same goes for it.

If Shoddy-Goddy DID exist, and he was the Islamic Shoddy-Goddy, then I'd get in free, nqa.

If Shoddy-Goddy DID exist, and he was the Jewish Shoddy-Goddy, then I'd have already met all the requirements for getting in.

To sum it up, it isn't the term you use or which holidays you celebrate, it's your sins and your beliefs that decide whether you get into heaven.

Buddhism would be fairly illogical, as if there is a Shoddy-Goddy, then you'd be screwed 100%, same with Atheism.

I'm still an Atheist though, I tried converting to Islam once, but I just couldn't bring myself to believe in a Shoddy-Goddy that I didn't believe existed.

Oh, and Muslims claim to offer REAL proofs for the existance of Shoddy-Goddy. There are proofs written in the Qu'ran-- tales of things that will happen in the far future, although generally they're happening right now, even though the stories weren't very specific, they were specific enough that one might believe it wasn't a coincidence. Also, the formation of the bronchial tree inside of your lungs actually says in Arabic calligraphy, "There is no God but God, and Mohammed is his messenger". Pretty nifty, eh? (somebody told me this, I found it to be true upon checking. however perhaps still it is just a coincidence)

 

god cannot be proved. It makes no sense to argue which irrationality is the most rational.

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By definition....

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Hi Game,

Welcome to sciforums.

Pascal’s wager has certainly been debunked very well so you do not have a case here, despite Ekim’s colorful anti-atheist adjectives.

Tyler’s point is also important since there are some 5000 and more declared deities. If only one is the only true god how do you choose?

But more importantly does it make sense to believe in a god because of a gamble? Let’s say the xtian god did exist and let’s assume he is intelligent, just, and is perfectly able to recognize a genuine sincere belief. How would he rate someone who says ‘I only believe in a god because it is a good bet’? The requirement for xtianity is a sincere belief in Jesus as a personal savior. The gamble approach is not credible since the motivation is not appropriate.

Cris

 

Actually

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Not necessarily debunked.

Atheists argue that if God is not true, you waste your life believing in something that isn't true.

This seems "rational" to the atheists only. Since there is no absolute who's to say one's opinion is over another's?

If the theist does not consider worshipping a God to be a waste of time, then actually, that part of Pascal's Wager is not a lost.

But you know, atheists love to think "it is."

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Let's say you have 5,000 doors to enter to save your life.

The rational person would choose at least one door.

The irrational person would just stand there and say, "It's all bullshit!"

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Speaking from an extremely rational point of view, 1/5000 is better than nothing.

Something is always better than nothing. Nothing begets nothing. You gain "nothing."

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You see, this problem of a gamble concerns atheists. Theists don't merely believe in God because of a gamble (some could, I'm not speaking for all here).

And there you have it, an atheist remains an atheist.

No matter what reason you present them, they can use the "rational" argument and debunk you. They need MORE

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