I believe that it is very unlikely that aliens have actively watched the human race. I mean humans are below stone aged intelligence compared to aliens, not only are we very unintelligent but we are boring and dangerous. We are stationed in an uninteresting galaxy on an uninteresting planet in the middle of nowhere so I find it very unlikely that aliens would find our civilazation the least bit interesting.

>I believe that it is very unlikely that aliens have actively watched the human race. I mean humans are below stone aged intelligence compared to aliens, not only are we very unintelligent but we are boring and dangerous. We are stationed in an uninteresting galaxy on an uninteresting planet in the middle of nowhere so I find it very unlikely that aliens would find our civilazation the least bit interesting.
------------------

According to many scientists, the likelyhood of a race, however advanced, discovering intellegent life, is impressively low. Should some other form of intellegent life discover us, it is very, very unlikely that they would not take a great deal of interest in us.

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Blacktubby,

"Reality has a way of catching up with you, the way the ground catches up with an airplane that runs out of fuel."

The reason why alien's would be interested in us is quite simple. They study us for the same reason's why we study the animal's of Earth. These animal's are also very primitive to us, but there is an urge in human's to understand them, the alien's who are interested in us are also driven by the same need to understand.

In a way, I get the point of your question, bystander. Assuming that they are just one of many intelligent forms of life out there, why would they be interested in us?? Then again, I don't make that assumption. The reason they're interested in us is because we have very valuable souls. By the way though, what are we and this particular planet boring in comparison to?

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God loves you and so do I!

If we're boring, then they probably wouldn't be interested in us. If we're dangerous, it would be in their best interests to keep a close eye on us. Whatever the answer, they sure didn't get that advanced by ignoring things.

To Lori,

What makes you think we have valuable souls. For all we know our souls could be useless in comparison to the more advanced races we are talking about.

To The Communist

What makes you think we have souls? How would their value be quantified?



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Blacktubby,

"Reality has a way of catching up with you, the way the ground catches up with an airplane that runs out of fuel."

The gospel of Jesus would make me think that our souls were valuable. And I didn't say "valuable in comparison to...".

And why does it always come down to quantification? I was just about to ask Boris the same thing on a different thread. I think that he's trying to argue that you can't study something without being able to measure it. May I point out that gravity did very well exist before someone measured it and put a label on it. And so did the electricity in the clouds, and every other thing in nature and science. Space...the final frontier. Are you denying the possibility of another dimension because of the fact that you can't observe or measure it? I don't think that's good judgement regarding the basic argument, not to mention all of the paranormal activities that have always existed throughout history, and very much to this day. Including alien activity. You know, there was a guy that used to post out here that was agnostic, and was skeptical of all things. He didn't believe that people had souls. Then he told me his house was haunted, and that he had experienced and seen unexplained things. I could never understand how someone who had seen a spirit didn't believe in spirits. LOL!

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God loves you and so do I!

[This message has been edited by Lori (edited September 21, 1999).]

Lori,

Was that an answer?
(edit: OOPS! I read your post before you fixed it. Sorry, my bad. :o)

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Blacktubby,

"Reality has a way of catching up with you, the way the ground catches up with an airplane that runs out of fuel."

[This message has been edited by Blacktubby (edited September 22, 1999).]

Lori,

Let me save you the trouble. No, indeed you cannot study something that you can't observe or quantify. While gravity existed prior to Newton, nobody even realized it was there. In fact, part of the argument against a spherical spinning earth was that everything would just fly off the surface. While there indeed was electricity in the atmosphere, until it was understood as such, the best people could do is attribute it to some mysterious workings of God or nature; people certainly could not study it. Only once testable hypotheses, such as Ben Franklin's, began to be proposed, was a study of atmospheric electricity possible.

That's why the claims of "soul" are empty. Not only is that proposed phenomenon unobservable and inquantifiable; it is also totally uncalled for given our current knowledge of how the world works. We simply do not need the soul to explain any mystery we encounter; it contributes nothing to our understanding, and it is certainly not a workable hypothesis, and by far not a subject that can be "studied".

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I am; therefore I think.

The subject of "souls" most certainly can be studied. One can pursue knowledge in this subject by observation, reading or research.

I agree that the subject of "souls" is not a hypothesis. The existence of souls has been verified repeatedly throughout history. To verify is to prove the truth of by the presentation of evidence OR testimony. There are many of us who have and who will continue to testify that we have had contact with souls. (Those who have not had contact, and wish to, you truly need to keep your hearts and your minds open to the possibility). It's usually a cool experience! and it's certainly not boring!

[This message has been edited by truestory (edited September 21, 1999).]

>The subject of "souls" most certainly can be studied. One can pursue knowledge in this subject by observation, reading or research.
---------------

How can you "observe" souls? Reading and research will only involve reading and researching other people's philosophies and ideas about "metaphysics". (ie. They are not based in fact.) It cannot be studied except in the way that tooth fairies can be studied. (P.S. I am trying to think of an example of a myth which no one here could *possibly* believe. Is the tooth faerie OK, or does someone believe in that too?)

---------------
>I agree that the subject of "souls" is not a hypothesis. The existence of souls has been verified repeatedly throughout history. To verify is to prove the truth of by the presentation of evidence OR testimony.
---------------

Verified repeatedly throughout history? Where? How? When?
Testimony on it's own means absolutely nothing in a case like this. About this evidence...

---------------
>There are many of us who have and who will continue to testify that we have had contact with souls. (Those who have not had contact, and wish to, you truly need to keep your hearts and your minds open to the possibility). It's usually a cool experience! and it's certainly not boring!
---------------

Could you explain the concept of "contact with souls" in a bit more detail? Thnx.

(Edit: Maybe we should move this to the religious debate forum... Just a thought)
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Blacktubby,

"Reality has a way of catching up with you, the way the ground catches up with an airplane that runs out of fuel."

[This message has been edited by Blacktubby (edited September 22, 1999).]

To use one of my favorite cliche sayings:

"You are thinking inside of the box"

Everything we observe is either directly from our senses, or by an instrument that allows us to amplify or measure something beyond the range of our senses, or outside completely such as radio waves.
In a situation like this, we can't be conclusive either way...yet. So, just because our 5 senses don't readily show us evidence for these things is not grounds for ruling them out, as there is always room for evolution or the unlikely discovery of quantifying these phenomena.

Blactubby,

One can pursue knowledge in (study) a given subject through observation, reading OR research (it is a logical, defining statement). The definition of study is NOT the all-inclusive observation AND reading AND research statement, nor is it the limiting observation ONLY statement.

Again, I presented the logical, defining OR statement with regards to "verify", you choose to exclude "testimony" from the definition.

So... rewrite the dictionary to suit your purpose!

Here is an example of contact with a soul:

My mother died in 1976. In 1982, her soul was manifested in a way that I could see her. It was a translucent energy, but I could see her for the purpose for which she came. She gave me a message which made absolutely no sense to me and asked me to pass the message along to a certain family member. Of course, I did not ignore my mother. I passed the message along as she had asked. The family member sobbed in relief. The message (which I will not repeat because it was extremely personal) freed the family member from something which they had been secretly torturing themselves about, emotionally, for decades. It involved another soul (which noone else in the family knew about). My mother's soul apparently learned the truth in the afterlife and was able to free someone from the fear of the unknown and the resulting emotional pain which it had been causing.

I hope this helps.



[This message has been edited by truestory (edited September 23, 1999).]

Hmm, i just read my post above and it doesn't make a bit of sense LoL. :)

I'm trying to say that it's possible that we can measure things like souls or psychic activity, given that we evolve the ability to do so. I personally think we are headed to a phase of new awareness that will reveal all of this. A new sense if you will, or perhaps a super-sense.

I have to agree with JMitch. Just because we do not have the ability to observe or quantify something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. That's a fact, not an opinion. I mean, look at all the things we've discovered in the last few centuries that previously had only been speculated at; yet they existed, didn't they? It comes down to this: reality is not based on our perceiving of it, obviously. I cannot see any one of the people posting replies in this message board, yet I assume you all exist, no? Unquantifiable or sometimes even unqualifiable things do exist. But I think we're getting off the subject here. Back to aliens...

Dork, JMitch,

If we do not currently have a sensory capacity for observing something, then how in the world can we <u>know</u> about it??? My rather simple answer: imagination.

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I am; therefore I think.

Boris,

If we have experienced psychic events, that obviously suggests that we have limited ability to perceive them or control their effects, certainly not zero capacity.

[This message has been edited by JMitch (edited September 23, 1999).]

JMitch,

But how do you know that your experiences were not an artifact of your mind (like the delusions of a schizophrenic might be)? That's why we need a measurement, a recording of these purported "events" through the sorts of instruments that simply cannot fabricate data, or falsely associate it with some memories or mental images.

For example, if people really are abducted by UFO's, I want a digital recording of the visit, a material proof that the person was actually gone from their bed and indeed from their building, through no doing of their own, I want a UFO to crash into a bird and send it down with broken bones, I want a remote viewer to correctly and completely describe the colors of all the chemicals present on Titan's surface before such measurements are carried out scientifically. There actually is a million-dollar prize out there for indisputable proof of a psychic phenomenon. Years later, the prize remains unclaimed.

If Poltergeists really can throw things around, I want an actual recording of the event. If ghosts can be seen by our eyes, then they can be seen by our cameras. But what makes me most suspicious is the claims of the NDE people. They claim to have "seen" things and "heard" things -- but obviously not through their real eyes and ears, which were resting together with their body in a hospital or wherever. Yet, the experience of seeing and hearing is intimately connected to activity in the corresponding visual and auditory corteci. For example, applying mild electric stimulation to these areas of the brain during open-brain surgery evokes sounds and images in the patients' mind. The acts of perception and memorization inherently speak of physical phenomenology within the networks of the brain. Such are the acts of the body, not the (inexistent) soul.

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I am; therefore I think.

But how do you know that your experiences were not an artifact
of your mind (like the delusions of a schizophrenic might be)?

Boris, In the post you read of my expreriences, I effectively said the same thing.(though it was months ago) I take the stance in my posts of things being real because I like to speculate things as if they are real, and writing "if this is real..." in every one of my posts is snooze for all.

There actually is a million-dollar prize out there
for indisputable proof of a psychic phenomenon. Years later, the
prize remains unclaimed.

And I'd like to be the one to claim it. My experiences are sporadic, that's why I take the "if" position.

Boris,
I have video tape showing drawers and kitchen cupboards moving violently open and shut (unaided, of course ). I also have video tape of a shadow walking down a hallway with no body to cast it.
If I send this tape to you, will you be amazed, convinced or even slightly more open-minded to paranormal activity in any way what-so-ever, or what? What will you do with the impact of this evidence?
What happens next in your life once you have proof? Will you believe the tape to be real, not doctored?
Glad to see you're on the " I want proof " mission like me!! LOL!
One day, Boris....one day...

Kind Regards,
Dave

Dave,

A tape would certainly be a start. However, as you yourself pointed out there still is the question of doctoring, illusionism or special effects. What needs to happen in addition to the tape, is a thorough documentation by an independent (hopefully, hostile) source (with wide expertise in illusionism) of the precise environment in which the tape was made and in which the proposed event occurred.

After all, on TV we sometimes see people getting sawed in half, or levitated in thin air -- and we all know that's not what is really happening. So as I said, tapes are a start, but they do not a case make (though they certainly do make for fun watching :D).

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I am; therefore I think.

Boris,

Come on, man...just climb out of the box for just a second. Just a little baby step out; like just poke your little toe out for just a second. Just answer this question for me, yes or no...Is it possible that an unobserved dimension exists?

When I asked myself that question I had to say yes.

Is it statistically probable that an unobserved dimension exists, given only our current level of scientific understanding of our universe?

When I asked myself that question, I had to admit that our current knowledge base was obviously just scratching the surface. I know, for an observable fact, that scientific advancement has been increasing at an increasing rate since I've been alive. I also know that there is an entire universe out there that we know virtually nothing about. That's a fact. And I also know that given what there is to know, we have only scratched the surface regarding this very planet that we live on, and about our very own selves and each other. Not to say that we don't know a lot, but I would argue statistically that there is much more learning to do. Sooooo, I had to say yes.

Ok, then and only then do you DARE to take the risk of factoring in the incredible ABUNDANCE of testimony, witness, AND OBSERVABLE DOCUMENTATION OF EVIDENCE, of what we call "paranormal" activity, which I have also seen many times on TV for crying out loud. It wasn't that long ago that I saw an entire prime time TV special that was devoted to collecting the very evidence that you keep blindly argueing does not exist. The show was created by a journalist who was extremely skepital of all of these weird events that were being reported of all over the place. He wanted to see if he could get it on tape, and collect PHYSICAL evidence, and he did. Of a statue of Jesus crying tears of blood. The statue was inspected by a frickin' TEAM OF ATHEIST SCIENTISTS. They went so far as to cat scan the thing, and found absolutely nothing. There were no devices, no perforations, no pumps, no chemicals, just blood. The blood was taken to a lab and put under a microscope. It was found to be human blood. That of a woman. They also filmed a woman who went through something called stigmata. Suffering the emotional and physical pain that Jesus did when he was crucified. It wasn't a trick, ok Boris? The camera was on her the whole time. There were plenty of witnesses there, and it wasn't something that was easy to watch. The reporters there, and the crew were truly stunned, and could not believe what they were seeing. This woman was definately not having a good time or getting rich off of anything. Even if she was, could you still explain it? No, there is no way to scientifically explain it as of yet. And though there does exist a scientific explanation for it yet undiscovered, it can not explain why it happened. The question of why is what I really wish you would focus some of that brain power of yours on. You're a smart guy, and you deserve to ask yourself the big questions in life.

You brought up the suggestion of schizophrenia, so let me ask you, do you think that when I say that when I pray, I actually hear God answering me in my head, that I'm suffering from the same "delusions" as a schizophrenic? Is there some type of physical condition that brings about these delusions? I'm sure that if there was, you would know what it is. Some type of abnormal brain activity documented in psychiatric patients? If there is no such physical evidence in some cases, such as my own implied case, then let me offer up a possible explanation in the form of an account of a personal experience. Several years ago, not long after my husband and I first met actually, he suffered an apparent "nervous breakdown". I use that term loosely, as I'm not quite sure how to describe what went on with him. All I know is that one night he was himself, though noticably emotionally upset over something legitimate that I won't mention and is irrelevant, and the next morning when I woke up, he was not himself at all. He continued to be "not himself" for maybe two months or so. And it seemed that as quickly as he had slipped into it, he slipped right out of it, and hasn't returned since. His behavior during this time was such that I did not forsee a continued romantic relationship with him in any sense at all. We had gotten very close though, and I couldn't help but notice that his good friends did not want anything to do with this new behavior of his. It was pretty bad, to the point where he had frisked a couple of them when they came to his house, he couldn't work, he wouldn't eat, and he said things that didn't make any sense. He was completely wired, and obviously paranoid, but without reason. To the point where he thought someone may be watching through the TV or that everyone (me, his friends) were in on some conspiracy. I felt awful for him. He drove his friends off (I'm sure you're familiar with how well men deal with emotionally intense situations), and he was alone and basically trapped in the house with his parents, who were immensely worried about him, and scared. So I used to visit him. We'd just sit on the porch and talk. He would kind of pop in and out. What he said would make a little sense, then it wouldn't. He said things like, "I don't like anything that's red." What do you say in response to that? Or one time, some guy that was out in his front yard about 8 houses down on the opposite side of the street was getting loud with someone on in his house or on his porch or whatever, and my husband somehow thought that had something to do with him??? Got real nervous and defensive. He wouldn't sit next to me on the porch swing. Like I said, previous to this, we had been very close. I certainly wondered what could be going on in his head, but I had to admit that the behavior was definately paranoid. So anyway, I hung around, and when I was out on the porch with him, and every day actually, I prayed for his healing in Jesus's name. Like I said, he snapped right out of it, and hasn't returned since. Not too long ago, I was talking to him about aliens, not that he's really all that interested in aliens, but I was telling him about how they are apparently able to talk to people telepathically. Like they would just hear a voice in their head. Or maybe I was talking about prayer. I'm not sure, but he said to me, "I've heard voices in my head before". I about fell off the couch. He doesn't talk much about, or take much of an interest in all this paranormal, spritual, alien stuff like I do, so it surprised me when he said it. He said that he heard them when he was sick. In particular, he told me of an evening when he was at his sister's house, and he was laying on the floor watching TV, and he said he kept hearing, "Go ahead and just kill yourself. Go ahead and kill yourself." Repeated over and over, he's not sure how long, but without realizing it, he said that apparently he started repeating it out loud to himself, until his sister heard him and said, "What the hell did you just say?!" And he said he kind of snapped out of it, but looking back on his behavior during that time, I would say this was probably not the only occurrance of hearing these "voices". If it were his own voice, then wouldn't he have said, "I should kill myself"? I think that something actually was talking to him. I think that a weakened emotional state or spiritual state or even a physical state such as with drug addition leaves a person very vulnerable to what I would refer to as spiritual suggestion. Actually, I would agrue that the suggestion itself is what perpetuates it's own acceptance, in a cyclical way, to the point where the suggestion is so intense that one would actually hear a voice in their head. The suggestion would have to be accepted though, kind of invited to infiltrate our minds through a negative or weakened state of our spirit. The same is true when you are strong in faith in the Lord and you pray, you are inviting his message to you. So, basically what I'm saying is that I think demons were messing with my husband. I also think that the fact that I prayed for his healing to God in Jesus' name that it healed him. At the time, though I really had no verification, I did feel that he was being messed with spiritually, by something evil, and I prayed for his protection from it. It worked. It works, Boris.

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God loves you and so do I!

Bystander, I' ll try to answer your original question as best as I can. First of all, you are correct that we would likely seem as below average in terms of intelligence and our level of advancement. However, you answer part of your question when you say humans are dangerous. If we' re a danger to them, then I can' t understand why they wouldn' t be watching our development, simply to protect themselves. There are also many other reasons why aliens would be interested in us and our planet. The first and most important: water. If we believe the scientists, water is required for all life forms, and an alien civilization that required water would likely find earth intriguing due to the readily available water supply. Earth is also mineral rich, which I'm sure aliens would be interested in. Plus, if the species is interested in science, there is a myriad of different animal and plant species to study. Finally, they could study humans in order to get an idea of how their own civilization might have developed at the same stage. And if they' re militaristic, they could probably find a use for us as slaves. Not necessarily a nice thought, but hey, its something to consider.

Brandon,
The idea of an advanced civilization finding use for slaves is ridiculous. Who would want weak, easily damaged, expensively maintained, unproductive slugs doing the chores, when you can have indestructible, self-maintaining, low-overhead machines that can work nonstop 24-7-365?

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I am; therefore I think.

Lori,



Is it possible that an unobserved dimension exists? When I asked myself that question I had to say yes.


It is possible, but that doesn't mean it's certain.



Is it statistically probable that an unobserved dimension exists, given only our current level of scientific understanding of our universe?


What do you mean, "statistically probable" (based on what probability model?) We may not understand the precise arrangement of basic physical effects driving various processes; however, that does not mean that our grasp of the universe's full set of fundamental physical effects is not nearing completion. To make an analogy, science does not know how exactly an ant colony organizes itself; however, you can be very certain (never 100%, mind you, until such a derivation is actually made -- but VERY certain) that science knows all the fundamental principles needed to derive such self-organization from the ground up. The reason is that everything around us consists of matter, and behaves through energy -- both of which we now understand in incredible detail with astonishing precision over a mind-boggling range of scales. We certainly understand extremely well the behavior of matter at scales and energies that are relevant to the workings of our surroundings and ourselves.



Ok, then and only then do you DARE to take the risk of factoring in the incredible ABUNDANCE of testimony, witness, AND OBSERVABLE DOCUMENTATION OF EVIDENCE, of what we call "paranormal" activity, which I have also seen many times on TV for crying out loud.


That's the key: it's what we <u>call</u> "paranormal"; whether it actually is or is not, remains yet to be demonstrated. Now, TV is, once again, not a source of reliable information -- <u>especially</u> the "paranormal" shows designed to cater to the unfortunately very wide and gullible religious audience. Please remember that TV is about ratings, not about truth or fact. The very reason that TV networks have been ramping up the output of UFO and paranormal "investigations" -- is because people like you seem to just eat it up with no limit in sight. You literally get what you ask for -- but it is hardly what you want.



...statue of Jesus crying tears of blood. The statue was inspected by a frickin' TEAM OF ATHEIST SCIENTISTS. They went so far as to cat scan the thing, and found absolutely nothing. There were no devices, no perforations, no pumps, no chemicals, just blood. The blood was taken to a lab and put under a microscope. It was found to be human blood. That of a woman.


Only one question: did they start out their observations when the statue already stopped "crying", or were they present when blood was actually in the process of pouring out from the "eyes"? As you can see, the answer to this question would make a huge difference, with respect to showing that the "miracle" was not a hoax. I am willing to bet that the answer is going to be a little disappointing.



They also filmed a woman who went through something called stigmata. Suffering the emotional and physical pain that Jesus did when he was crucified. It wasn't a trick, ok Boris?


And perhaps it wasn't a trick (though on "candid camera" you can never be certain). But it doesn't mean that the source of the symptoms, (supposing they were real) -- was not of this Earth.



No, there is no way to scientifically explain it as of yet. And though there does exist a scientific explanation for it yet undiscovered, it can not explain why it happened. The question of why is what I really wish you would focus some of that brain power of yours on.


If there is a scientific explanation, then we will eventually know what caused it to happen. And if "causes" are not synonymous with "why", I don't know what is. And, if you are asking why the causes were there in the first place -- then your answer is as good as any, or should I say, as bad. Besides, if it is the existence of causes that we are debating here, then why are we even concerning ourselves with their effects?



You brought up the suggestion of schizophrenia, so let me ask you, do you think that when I say that when I pray, I actually hear God answering me in my head, that I'm suffering from the same "delusions" as a schizophrenic?


Nobody is calling you clinically insane (unless religion is considered to be a form of insanity, but let's not go there...) However, even a schizophrenic's brain is not all that different from yours or mine. When you dream, you see things and you hear things and feel things -- and often dreams involve objects that seem to be out of "your" control. Nevertheless, everything in a dream is generated by your brain. This does not mean that I have found an explanation to whatever it is you claim to have heard; however I did intend to show that your brain is capable of generating absolutely anything you think you perceive, with one exception. The exception is information which you do not possess before an "experience". If you had a psychic experience, and suddenly came to recall the schematics of the most recent U.S. nuclear warhead design -- then you can be fairly certain that your experience was not entirely caused by your brain (unless you are a nuclear engineer, of course...)

<hr>

The problem with all the so-called "miracles" and "experiences", is that they are still entirely stone-age, and are quite out of place in the modern world. Blood, wounds, visions -- this stuff just doesn't cut it any more. If God wants to appeal to the modern mind, he must play slightly more elaborate tricks -- especially tricks that would involve the sorts of energies or physical effects which are unattainable by any zealot.

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I am; therefore I think.

Lori,

I saw this documentary also. It was truly amazing. The camera crew, journalists and scientists spent days with this woman.

According to the documentary, and the commentary by the journalists and scientists who witnessed this (and got it on film), the scientists took control of the statue at a time when it was not in the act of crying. They performed the thorough examination of the statue and continue to observe it, continuously, then... it started crying the blood, of which, they took a sample and found it to be human blood.

The team stayed with this woman prior to, during and after the stigmata incident. The entire episode was captured on video. The wound sites were tested before, during and after their development and healing. Nothing could be found to explain how these bleeding wounds developed (and they were determined to be actual, fresh wounds), and nothing could explain how they healed at a much faster rate than normal. The deeper wounds actually left scars. The woman was in a bed, which had been thoroughly examined, during the entire stigmata ordeal.

According to the non-believers of the group who witnessed, tested and documented these miracles, they became believers.

I think I'll do some research to get the names and contact information (to post on this board) of the individuals who participated in this study (particularly the scientists). That way, anyone who is interested in learning more about what they experienced can hear it first hand and perhaps get the documented results.

Boris, I meant that as a joke. You' re right, they could find something better than us.

truestory,

If the statue was actually observed in the process of "crying" -- was its weight changing? Were there infrared or radio recordings done? Did the blood appear on the surface as droplets, or as a thin film? What part of the eyes did the blood come out of? Did the blood contain any anti-coagulants? Where is the statue now, and has it been examined by other teams? It would indeed be nice to know the types of measurements that were done, the credentials of the people who did it, and those people's present locations and lines of work. Oh yes, and it would also be nice to have access to their actual raw data, too. One last question: how come they didn't go for the <A HREF="http://www.randi.org/">James Randy Educational Foundation</A>'s $1,000,000 "Paranormal Challenge"?

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I am; therefore I think.

[This message has been edited by Boris (edited September 27, 1999).]

Think outside the box ! Meaning : try to imagine there are some things that we just can't observe. These things are the cause of events who are observable, that is why we have come up with these out-of-the-box-things in the first place. If there was no interaction going on we wouldn't need ourselves to consern with them, right ?

First of all : outside the box lies infinity ! There are literally an infinite amount of unobservable things so we like to keep the box closed just to keep things organised.

Second how does the interaction between the unobservable and the observable take place ? It seems that this interaction is sporadic, we don't see ghosts every day, we aren't abducted every saterday night at 10 pm and we don't witness the spontaneous weeping of a statue every time after breakfast.
Reproducability is the key word here, reliability is an other ! So why are these things so mysterious ? Because that is what they feed and thrive on : the mystery.
If we explain one mystery all the fun leaks out of it like a balloon with a hole in it. If we don't believe in fairies or dragons any more we replace them swiftly by aliens and spiritual energies.
If you are considering the 'enormous amount of evidence' that supports paranormal (or alien) events then put that next to the evidence that for example an electron exists. Do they have the same valor ? Do we only know of electron because some people say them in a vision or because of some very strange behavior of a magnetic field of a certain magnet that is blessed by the Messiah himself ?

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"If I have been able to see further, it was only because I stood on the shoulders of giants."
Isaac Newton

I have e-mailed a source who might be able to provide the names and contact information of scientists who have observed and tested statues crying blood (and pure, virgin, olive-oil... there are many throughout the world now). I will post the information when received.

By the way... There have been countless miracles happening around the world during the last decade. People from many nations of many beliefs have witnessed them. Surprisingly enough, some have been recurring at the same time every day for years!

I would suggest that some of the nonbelievers or those "sitting on the fence" go and check these recurring miracles out for themselves. You can learn more about the who, what, where and when by searching for "miracles" on the net.

[This message has been edited by truestory (edited October 04, 1999).]

Why wouldn't aliens study us? We are looking for them! :)

So they could see their pet monkeys work! And dance, and scurry about, and be feed. And the baby alienoids would tell their mothers, "Look Ma! They Talk!!". And ask questions like," Are they like us?"

So they could watch their monkeys work! And dance, and play! And the baby alienoids would tell their mothers', "Look they talk!!!". And then ask, "Mom, are they like us?".

So they could watch their monkeys work! And dance, and play! And the baby alienoids would tell their mothers', "Look they talk!!!". And then ask, "Mom, are they like us?".

So they could watch their pet monkeys work! And dance, play & go about their lives. And the baby alienoids would tell their mothers excitedly,"Look Ma they talk!!". Then ask their mothers," Are they like us?".

So they could watch their pet monkeys work! And dance, play & go about their lives. And the baby alienoids would tell their mothers excitedly,"Look Ma they talk!!". Then ask their mothers," Are they like us?".

So they can watch their pet monkeys work! And dance, play & go about their little lives. And the baby alienoids would tell their mothers excitedly,"Look Ma, they talk!"
Then ask them, "Are they like us?".

So they can watch their pet monkeys work! And dance, play & go about their little lives. And the baby alienoids would tell their mothers excitedly,"Look Ma, they talk!"
Then ask them, "Are they like us?".

LOL...ENOUGH ALREADY I'd be willing to bet my last dollar that these guys are pretty far from thier animal roots.

So that they could see their pet monkeys work! And dance, play & live their little lives running about. And the baby alienoids would tell their mothers excitedly, "Look Ma, they talk!!". Then they would ask, "Are they like us?".

Blacktubby,


According to many scientists, the likelyhood of a race, however advanced, discovering intellegent life, is impressively low. Should some other form of intellegent life discover us, it is very, very unlikely that they would not take a great deal of interest in us.

Especially if they were the ones who put us here in the first place?

[This message has been edited by Searcher (edited October 09, 1999).]

So that they can watch their pet monkeys work! And dance, play & go about their little lives as if it were important. And the baby alienoids well tell their mothers excitedly, "Look Ma, they talk!!". Then ask them,"Are they like us?". As the pet monkeys scurry about, intent on the business beforehand. With sad eyes, remembering the old ways & days. With mournful songs of old Earth, before They came.

Randolfo,

Uh, do you have anything new to say?

Why humans as slaves? Well just like we treat monkeys, parrots & dolphins. To watch their monkeys work, dance & play, thinking that their little lives are important. While the little alienoids tell their moms excitedly,"Look Ma! They talk!!" And then ask them, "Are they like us, Ma?".

Randolfo

Why wouldn't they use robots? or be able to just speak and make something happen. If they could travel here they would have very superior technology to ours. In as little as 50 years we may be able to control matter at the atomic level. which will mean making dirt into a satisfying meal. Wouldn't that be great.

Humans are much to hard to maintain and it wouldn't be very worthwhile travelling to a whole new planet for humans who would only have 30 years hard labor in them anyway.

In response to Randolfo's repeated post, I think the wrong person in this string was named "Dork".

To Boris - NO SOUL? -
The soul is what cries, laughs, rejoices, feels deeply and unconditions when the mind presents it with an image or thought which is appropriately moving to the individual.
The soul is older than the universe, it is invisible but it is connected to every single living organism in time and space. This abstact quality makes it very unobtrusive, hence you are only aware of it under the right circumstances but the soul is much more complicated than I can explain in this simple code and in the short time I have available. I will go deeper into it if any Earthlings are interested, 'bye 4 now.

The reason that they are here is to provide the deception regarding end-time events in the Bible. They will cover up the rapture of the Church. They will support the Antichrist's rise to power. They will provide evidence to support the new age religion. They will claim to be our creators. They will claim to foster a spiritual enlightenment. They will deny that Jesus is the Son of God. They will "save" us. But it's only an illusion. Very cleverly crafted over several thousand years, but a lie none the less. Watch....

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God loves you and so do I!

to the whatchamicallit:

This really is a wrong forum for this, but since you asked, I'll reply. The "soul" you describe consists of emotions, motivations, perceptions and self-cognition. All of which are functions of the brain, as are beliefs, desires, hopes, memories, knowledge, doubt and faith. The brain is a marvellous machine indeed, but there is nothing supernatural about it, nor about any of its inputs or outputs.

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I am; therefore I think.

Boris, check out The truth is here.