Just to show that He can?

Ezekiel 21:1-5
1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 "Son of man, set your face against Jerusalem and preach against the sanctuary. Prophesy against the land of Israel 3 and say to her: 'This is what the LORD says: I am against you. I will draw my sword from its scabbard and cut off from you both the righteous and the wicked. 4 Because I am going to cut off the righteous and the wicked, my sword will be unsheathed against everyone from south to north. 5 Then all people will know that I the LORD have drawn my sword from its scabbard; it will not return again.'

First off, observe that unlike Paul’s declaration in Romans 3:10, "that there are none righteous", here we have God himself declaring that there really are some that are righteous, and even in the Old Testament days. Hmmm… This cannot be! God must have been wrong here!

Notice further in the passage above that we also have God killing off even the “righteous” along with the wicked. Why? What is the stated reason for doing this? So that “all people will know that I am the LORD” and that He has “drawn” His “sword from its scabbard”. Apparently even the righteous are not safe from this beings wrath. This contradicts scriptures all over the place.

Does anyone else see a problem with this?

Well, now I know that God kills off the righteous along with the wicked so that I will know that, He is the one who kills off the righteous along with the wicked, and that he is the LORD. Nice marketing plan! His ways certainly are not our ways. I would guess that this probably worked about as well as all of the other failed strategies He tried on His people. Why can’t He ever figure out how to show Himself to His people in a way that will gain both their admiration and respect? Can’t He just show up on earth in person sometime with full invincibility and unlimited ammo enabled? Or what if He were to use His mind reading capabilities for good and kill off only the truly wicked? You know guys like Hitler! That might work a little better, IMO. Now that would probably make the whole world stand up and notice Him. But instead we always have to send our own sons to die by the millions until such an evil person is defeated. Of course, I forgot that according to the Bible, God is the one who placed Hitler in power to begin with. I suppose that means that all who fought against Hitler in the war were really working in opposition to God's will. Good thing that makes sense!?

I am sure glad that most mere men have better sense than this. Any man who recommended this course of action to solve anything would be, or should be, regarded as insane. But here, the only Christian response is likely to be, “blessed be the name of the LORD.” And in so doing they are really giving approval to this kind of behavior. They have no other choice, do they?

Can anyone explain what is going on in this passage in a way that makes God come out smelling like a rose?

Apparently he is a sadist :shrug:

I warn you in advance that this scripture may be prophetic.

"cutting off" is a term used often in divine judgement. I prefer to look this up rather that guess...but I'll return tonight a give you the complete understanding...

When the bible refers to "cutting off" I don't think it's about killing it's talking about a dividing or seperation. There are several prophesies that read like this but there talking of grape vines...It's symbolic for the good and the righteous...

remember that the bible says that the word of God is sharper than any two edge sword, to the dividing of the soul and the....(don't remember the rest)

This scripture seems to be speaking of a time of judgement inwhich the good will be cut away from the wicked becaue they exist together as if on the same vine....but I'll have to correct myself tonight to be 100% sure of this scriptural text.

I warn you in advance that this scripture may be prophetic.


Thanks for the kind warning!

If it is prophetic, you probably will not know that it is, until it is too late. It has something to do with the fact that God loves everyone and wants everyone to be saved, but likes to hide from them.

Please let me know what you find out tonight.

The question has all the logic of why does Popeye wait until he's half beat up before eating his spinach. :shrug: It's all fantasy. :rolleyes:

Because if god kills a few people who love and obey him, guess what he will do to people who don't believe and are wicked. He has to set an example, and hey, they're gonna go to heaven anyways.

Ezekiel 21:1-5
4 Because I am going to cut off the righteous and the wicked, my sword will be unsheathed against everyone from south to north.

Just stand to His east or west and you should be okay.;)

Because if god kills a few people who love and obey him, guess what he will do to people who don't believe and are wicked. He has to set an example, and hey, they're gonna go to heaven anyways.

:confused: Orleander.. ? It's not Halloween anymore..

1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 "Son of man, set your face against Jerusalem and preach against the sanctuary. Prophesy against the land of Israel 3 and say to her: 'This is what the LORD says: I am against you. I will draw my sword from its scabbard and cut off from you both the righteous and the wicked. 4 Because I am going to cut off the righteous and the wicked, my sword will be unsheathed against everyone from south to north. 5 Then all people will know that I the LORD have drawn my sword from its scabbard; it will not return again.'


I am against you. I will draw my sword from its scabbard and cut off from you both the righteous and the wicked.

This scripture is indeed a prophetic like but not a prophesy in the traditional way. God has sent down a proclamation against Judah for it's Idolatrous behvior. So this is not so much a prediction but a warning. Which is what the prophets often served as, a official of God to his people.

My research immediately brought up. Job 9:22 One thing there is. That is why I do say,
‘One blameless, also a wicked one, he is bringing to their end.’

God's "sword" is symbolic. Drawing the sword is a warning. The use of the sword against the righteous and wicked applies the warning of the execution of judgement. Fairly often and in more direct ways God warns in the bible that their will be a judging of the righteous and the unrighteous...a resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous.

The bible clearly denotes in a number of scriptures that death and life are executions of judement thus the sword of God can be applied to both the Good and the Bad. The warning to the good is often not to become blood guilt before God. Blood guilt is an indirect error in the bible that can have adverse judgements. It includes failure to render aid, failure to give warning to God's soon to be applied judgement.

I'm attempting summarize there is a lot of correlating scripture. I stand ready to post it all if you like...

:confused: Orleander.. ? It's not Halloween anymore..

fixed :D

fixed :D

LOL I thought you would think I meant your avatar :D

I meant your post though.. it's scaring me.. :(

OOOOHHHHH.
Well, isn't that how it works? Go ask Job.

boredom

OOOOHHHHH.
Well, isn't that how it works? Go ask Job.

Did VitalOne get to you or something ? :p

Death is GOOD is you're going to a better destination...

Death is GOOD is you're going to a better destination...

double dog dare ya to prove it. :p

Did VitalOne get to you or something ? :p

LOL, I'm channeling my upbringing.

double dog dare ya to prove it. :p

I can't, if I commit suicide and go to heaven, hell, or there's just no consciousness, you wouldn't know, it's unverifiable

Death is GOOD is you're going to a better destination...

Yes.

This is something that has been totally missed by SetiAlpha6.

I have even heard it exclaimed by people today that in a all out nuclear war the survivors will envy the dead. The book of Revelation reveals something about the End times you may wish to think upon.

Revelation 9
6 In those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will desire to die, and death will flee from them.

As a Christian I long to be free of this world to be in the presence of God. So yes death is a blessing if your going to a better place. :)


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

I can't, if I commit suicide and go to heaven, hell, or there's just no consciousness, you wouldn't know, it's unverifiable

Its all unverifiable. I'll just have faith that you went to an afterlife. Now go ahead...

Here is a typical christian for you. Hateful, egotistical, devishly self-righteous for it's own sake. Actually dark souls quoting scripture.

Lol, actually I like samoans and i'm sure are better company than this bitch.

...and therefore not WHITE!!! I don't know how anyone could even begin to think they are white, they certainly don't look it and in no way come from a part of the world where whites originate from. Samoans are basically a savage race of people who like blacks from Africa having been left to their own device have advanced little if any as a race and continue to wallow in their primitive culture having invented, created and developed absolutely NOTHING towards technology and civilization. Other than stereotype pro-wrestlers and headhunters on 'Gilligan's Island', what exactly have Samoans done in what has to be their many millennia of existance compared to the accomplishments of white civilization on a scale of paralled time?
__________________
JOSHUA 23:12-13 "if ye do in any wise go back and cleave unto the remnant of these nations, even these that remain among you, and shall make marriage with them and go in unto them and they unto you: know for a certainty that they shall be snares and traps unto you and scourges in your sides and thorns in your eyes, until ye perish off from this good land which the Lord your God has given you."

This scripture is indeed a prophetic like but not a prophesy in the traditional way. God has sent down a proclamation against Judah for it's Idolatrous behvior. So this is not so much a prediction but a warning. Which is what the prophets often served as, a official of God to his people.

My research immediately brought up. Job 9:22 One thing there is. That is why I do say,
‘One blameless, also a wicked one, he is bringing to their end.’

God's "sword" is symbolic. Drawing the sword is a warning. The use of the sword against the righteous and wicked applies the warning of the execution of judgement. Fairly often and in more direct ways God warns in the bible that their will be a judging of the righteous and the unrighteous...a resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous.

The bible clearly denotes in a number of scriptures that death and life are executions of judement thus the sword of God can be applied to both the Good and the Bad. The warning to the good is often not to become blood guilt before God. Blood guilt is an indirect error in the bible that can have adverse judgements. It includes failure to render aid, failure to give warning to God's soon to be applied judgement.

I'm attempting summarize there is a lot of correlating scripture. I stand ready to post it all if you like...


All of this is only your own personal interpretation. Nothing more!

And many times the sword is very real and not symbolic at all. Here is how the term "cut off" is often used. It often means to "put to death" (Please see below).

Exodus 31:12-15
The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.'

For your own sake Saquist, I hope you keep the Sabbath, because according to Jesus this Law is still in full force.

Thanks!

Yes.

This is something that has been totally missed by SetiAlpha6.

I have even heard it exclaimed by people today that in a all out nuclear war the survivors will envy the dead. The book of Revelation reveals something about the End times you may wish to think upon.

Revelation 9
6 In those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will desire to die, and death will flee from them.

As a Christian I long to be free of this world to be in the presence of God. So yes death is a blessing if your going to a better place. :)


All Praise The Ancient Of Days


No one on this earth knows whether they are going to heaven or not. Not one! Not even you, Adstar. Many Christians have little if any comfort on their deathbed but instead are afraid that God might yet still throw them into hell because of something they overlooked or misunderstood. Did they have the right kind of faith? Were they ever really one of "the chosen" after all? The church down the street says no! There is no way for them to know for themselves. They could have just been deceiving themselves the whole time.

Everyone has a different theory of what "saving faith" even is with the result that only the most egotistical and prideful end up with an assurance that they are saved. And, of course, these same attributes might just damn them to hell.

Anyway, good luck with this mess.

No one on this earth knows whether they are going to heaven or not. Not one! Not even you, Adstar. Many Christians have little if any comfort on their death-bed but instead are afraid that God might yet still throw them into hell because of something they overlooked or misunderstood. Did they have the right kind of faith? Were they ever really one of "the chosen" after all? The church down the street says no! There is no way for them to know for themselves. They could have just been deceiving themselves the whole time.

Everyone has a different theory of what "saving faith" even is with the result that only the most egotistical and prideful end up with an assurance that they are saved. And, of course, these same attributes might just damn them to hell.

Anyway, good luck with this mess.

No mess here SetiAlpha6 :) The mess resides in your understanding.

Yes i trust in the Words of God so i know that i will be with my Heavenly Father forever. You however place your trust in yourself your like a ship captain who places his anchor within his own ships hold thinking it will secure his boat in a storm. I however place my anchor on the bead Rock of His Word so i know i am secure not because i have egotistical pride in my own self but because i place my trust in His righteousness.

Anyway i will not wish you any luck because luck has nothing to do with anything where eternity is concerned.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Its all unverifiable. I'll just have faith that you went to an afterlife. Now go ahead...

Why would I? Committing suicide get's you into HELL

Also, you said PROVE it, by committing suicide I wouldn't prove anything, like I previously stated

All of this is only your own personal interpretation. Nothing more!

I'm afraid that simply is not the case. I did offer you to see the information that further states the point.

And many times the sword is very real and not symbolic at all. Here is how the term "cut off" is often used. It often means to "put to death" (Please see below).

cut off is also used in this way.

However Seti there are notable differences. This is Law...and it is unquestionably litteral. The Law was not in any way prophetic also...God's "sword" is not mentioned.

Considering that God is a spirit person and has no physcial form his possesion of a "sword" as symobllism is logical and considering the larger similarities with other prophetic warnings of judgement then this is most definitely following a pattern.

Righteous and Unrighteous being cut off.

"seperating of sheep and goats."
"cutting off of the righteous and unrighteous
"The vine producing no fruitage cut off from the vine of fine fruits"
"he righteous to a resurection of life and the unrighteous to a resurrection of judgement."

The scriptures say look for a pattern 1 Timothy 1:13

The pattern in all these scriptures and at least one or two more show that there is a dividing between the good and the bad and some use the phrase "cutting off" and all of them are speaking of judgement.

Exodus 31:12-15
The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.'

I've been told by an older one that the Sabbath was a set of rules and regulation set out by God for Israel to use in it's internal governing. What we are describing above in your original scripture is "Divine Judgement." Is it logical to conclude with the Exodus scripture that this fits the criteria of "Divine Judgement?" Has God ever allowed "Divine Judgement" to decided in the hands of an imperfect human being or orgainization? There is no such scripture.

Remember. The scripture you originaly brought up was not about Law It was a warning that Eziekiel was to act out SYMBOLICLY to Judah for violating the Law. God did not execute everyone in the that situation.

Divine Judgement not only includes Death but Life as well both on an everlasting basis. So this is not a matter of my opinion Seti my entire congregation knows the same and the scriptures invovled that tell us God does not execute the righteous.

For your own sake Saquist, I hope you keep the Sabbath, because according to Jesus this Law is still in full force.

I have to disagree based on scripture.
I am not a Jew and under the New Covenant I have no obligation to the previous covenant with Israel.

No mess here SetiAlpha6 :) The mess resides in your understanding.

Yes i trust in the Words of God so i know that i will be with my Heavenly Father forever. You however place your trust in yourself your like a ship captain who places his anchor within his own ships hold thinking it will secure his boat in a storm. I however place my anchor on the bead Rock of His Word so i know i am secure not because i have egotistical pride in my own self but because i place my trust in His righteousness.

Anyway i will not wish you any luck because luck has nothing to do with anything where eternity is concerned.


Adstar,

Even Paul did not take his salvation for granted. Why in the world then do you think that you can?

1 Corinthians 9:26-27
26Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air. 27No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

Do you beat your own body like Paul did? I sincerely doubt it! Is it not perhaps because you think of yourself more highly than he did?

Philippians 2:12
12Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,

You void any scripture that disagrees with you. You are just like all of the rest of them, but you cannot even see it because of your own foolish pride.

You might want to find a nice big stick to beat yourself with. Of course, in contradiction to this, according to Paul again, this is not supposed to help at all. Why then does he do the very thing that he claims is useless?

Any ideas?

Below, Paul claims that sever treatment of the body should not be done because it is basically of no value, even though, as I said, he does this very thing himself in the scripture I quoted above.

Colossians 2:20-23
20Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: 21"Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? 22These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

But then on the other hand, Jesus taught that the discipline of, or even severe abuse of, the body was good and actually could help you get saved.

Matthew 18:8
If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire.

I call this a mess!

I know! It is all my fault right?

god is an equal opportunity murderer. He kills without bias. Babies, kids, women, all are chaff before him. In the flood he murdered everybody because they upset him. 2Kings 19:35 he slaughtered 185,000 men. He rants and murders even his chosen people, the Jews. He is supposed to be all powerful and yet is jealous of other gods. If someone doesn't believe in him, he hates them with such intensity that he is prepared to torture them forever in a hell he created. Adam and Eve disobeyed him in the garden of Eden and he cursed mankind forever because of it. Clearly he a highly unstable character and has no one to tell him what is right and what is wrong. Like a petulant brat, he does what he wishes.

Adstar,

Even Paul did not take his salvation for granted. Why in the world then do you think that you can?

1 Corinthians 9:26-27
26Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air. 27No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

Do you beat your own body like Paul did? I sincerely doubt it! Is it not perhaps because you think of yourself more highly than he did?

Philippians 2:12
12Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,

You void any scripture that disagrees with you. You are just like all of the rest of them, but you cannot even see it because of your own foolish pride.

You might want to find a nice big stick to beat yourself with. Of course, in contradiction to this, according to Paul again, this is not supposed to help at all. Why then does he do the very thing that he claims is useless?

Any ideas?

Below, Paul claims that sever treatment of the body should not be done because it is basically of no value, even though, as I said, he does this very thing himself in the scripture I quoted above.

Colossians 2:20-23
20Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: 21"Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? 22These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

But then on the other hand, Jesus taught that the discipline of, or even severe abuse of, the body was good and actually could help you get saved.

Matthew 18:8
If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire.

I call this a mess!

I know! It is all my fault right?

Yes, It is all your fault.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Yes, It is all your fault.

Thank you very much for the confirmation! Although I had hoped for more of an explanation.

Take Care.