I hear a lot of debate over the 'correct' way to worship God, but how about a more basic question of why? If you beleive in God - so what. Does God really need such 'devotion'? Does God even deserve it?

God is the only being that truly deserves any kind of recognition. You may not believe in God, but only an idiot does not believe in merit.

My friend at school recently said to me, I believe there is a God just like there are coffee tables, but I don't believe you should worship coffee tables.

I'd have to agree with him about not worshiping coffee tables, but God isn't anything like a coffee table, so I guess I disagree with him on that one lol.

Christians worship God because He alone is worthy of our praise. He is absolute good, and to worship anything else would be to worship what isn't good. This is pretty simple but it sums it up without wasting your time with a lot of reading, because you'll only disagree with this doctrine anyway. But then again you might not?

CyA's

It is my personal feeling that any being capable of creating everything around us wouldn't give a damn what we thought of them. We would be so insignificant to such a being as to be bordering on the ludicrous. If EVERY single ant on the planet began to worship you, would you really care? It wouldn't benefit you in any way. It may make you feel good at first, that is if you ever even noticed that the ants were doing this. And if there were a being that created this existance we would be a million, million times more insignificant in comparison to it than the ant would be to us. To assume we are the culmination, or the intention of creation (if indeed this existance were created) is not only prideful, it is just not very likely. With the evidence that man has evolved to its current state becoming more and more comprehensive all the time, who is to say that someday man may not exist at all, but be replaced by something that we ourselves evolve into?

Having faith in something has proven to be very helpful when coping with stress and generally to maintain mental health. That is a fact, but should we believe in god just because it will be good for us? shouldnt we question and find as much evidence to suggest that what we have faith in is correct? shouldnt we look for multiple explanations on the matter or be blinded by one and only opinion....My opinion is, one, before believing in something he or she must look if her or his opinions are correct..are objectively scientifically proven, or if there arent ANY scientific proves on the matter one must look deep down into oneself and recognice when he is talking subjetively....

Worshiping God is a clear sign to ourselves and to God that we love him.

Originally posted by okinrus
Worshiping God is a clear sign to ourselves and to God that we love him.

Yes okinrus...it is....but does god really exist? or if he does is he exactly like imagined? YOU cant even understand the whole concept of god as writen...YOU should consider ur god as something highest than all of us AND YOU shouldnt even talk about him....i dont understand....many christians critisize atheists of being arrogant and thinking too gradniose about themselves....when it is exactly the opposite.....atheists dont believe in someone that can help them just by praying and believing and then go to a nice place called paradice....in this case...christians arent humble but selfish....they may believe in god with all their hearts....but in the bottomline...why? "because god will help me and ill have eternal life in paradice"

Worship won't do anything to God. What you get from worshipping only matters. Atheists think of God and focus their mind on the validity and supposed nature of God. Its a form of worship. :D

yep worship....for certain benefits....Any christian who can say that he beliefs in god because he so good so truthful so mercifull.....without mentioning that he or she can have eternal life by god....then he or she is a LIAR..

For this thread, let us assume that God is God. Tyrell is bang on the money. Look at it another way, does God (please ignore scripture as it was written by man) want us to use our limited time here to worship. God makes the earth, and everything on and around it, places us upon it. Should we not enjoy the life he gave us, instead of spending every sunday in a smoke filled dark church listening to someone drone on and on about some letter Paul wrote (Knock on doors bothering people or chant, or bow to Mecca, or etc.)? Would it not show more respect to do what he intended us to do

Jeremy, here's a better question for you.

If you were in a nice spot on the carebean sea enjoying a beautifull 5 star resort, and you were told to step out of the resort to this ugly part of town to spend two days for every week in an ugly unconditioned shack in a crowded part of the town, what would you think about that?

Of course, you'll say no...what's the need for that torture? Right?

What if you were told, I'll not tell you the reason for your 2 day unexpected draft to the getto, wouldn't that get you madder.

Let's say you were forced to abide to that rule for a month, then you started looking around you and noticing that the resort life is not real life, it's just pleasure, and that other people live the sucky life everyday. Don't you think that makes you a better person in touch with the common denominator people, able to understand their circumstance and help them better. A situation that you rebelled againest and never understood the purpose for can have great purposes for you.

Next time you question fasting or why do all people rich and poor gather to think about a common theme, remember the common denominator that you always have to think about to be a better person.

The resort is real - it really is. Not all people can be helped. Maybe if people looked outside the church window, they would see God's creation, see it is great and use it as it was intended. I sense a little Masochist in you, a need to suffer? I do see (I think) where you are going with this, I help any and all I can directly not pretending to help by 'prayer' etc. I will not live in a shack, instead I bring people to the resort.

Jeremy,
life is neither a shack nor a resort. God wants us to lead a balanced life. Worship brings balance to life, for those that are over achievers that can do it all and are very rich, a moment of worship to the lord and a rememberance that we are all humans that were born and that will die is important in helping us reach the balance and making balanced decisions. Don't you think Martha Stewart and Bill Clinton could have used moments of worship to protect themselves from themselves.

To the poor and the disadvantaged, they must worhip too to feel balanced, they must understand that life is an arena of testing that starts with birth and ends in death. They need to worship to motivate themselves, ect, ect....

Worship or god remembrance is the control factor in our life, without it, there is no limit to what we can do, which may be percieved by some as a good thing, and with too much of it, there's limitation. God loves balance, and that's what all should shoot for.

The shack/resort was your metaphor, not mine. Actually life is what you make of it. Spending time in church is not a requirement to a balanced life. Clinton was and is a practicing Baptist. It did not seem to help him enough to stay on the straight and narrow.

I do not agree that the poor and down trodden 'need' to be worshipful to be balanced and live a better life. In fact the opposite is closer to the truth. If they spent more time questioning there 'lot' in life, and less time blindly accepting it they would more fully rejoice in God's creation. To not make the most* of your life, is to squander it. What would God think of that?

*Not necessarily in a financial sense.

I think your version of worshiping is completely different than mine, that's why you will find my words againest churches and preists hard, yet you'll find me an advocate of worship....I bet you can't make that connection.

To me god worship is remembering god in my action. Second, I'm a muslim, so we don't have mosque or church attendance requirement, I don't have to listen to nobody, and I don't have to pray with anybody. The Quran doesn't even specify the format of the prayer, only the Hadith, which is not authentic.

I'm very accomplished lady by the way thanks to god, and thanking god in the morning and night for everything has been a grounding force in my life. I fear god in my actions, and although I have incredible amount of temptation at my job, I don't near it due to that fear. I do the engineering review on residential, commercial, and industrial plans for an entire county and I could take thousands of dollars in bribary or services to my house and my parents home only if I promise to use my red pen a bit less. This is very tempting and if I had no fear in god, I would do it, because there are many ways around the law to make these transactions completely legal.

I'm extremely jealous in my relationship with god and don't like to share it with any other, so I hate praying with others or infront of others. This is my special beatifull time between me and god.

Flores:

So...you are anti-christian? This is where you are heading, another bloody muslim radical?

Think whatever you wish, it have absolutely no impact on me.

Here's my photos under heflores, try to avoid me and my family on the street, we are highly armed and dangerous.

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=5756&perpage=20&pagenumber=59

flores:

I was testing you, I think you passed. I saw you posting large numbers of religious quotes, and thought you might be one of 'them' Perhaps not.

You do care about what I think, your posts here are testimony to that. If you really feel your relationship is sacred and very private, why do you bring it up?

Doing right or wrong has to do with ones own choices in life, it has nothing to do with God. I have no fear of God, why would I. Is he not all good? I need not fear anything to know right from wrong. I have no temtation to do wrong, because I know it to be wrong.

Now shall we get back to the thread at hand: ignoring religious writings, why worship God? Would he want it?

Originally posted by Jeremy
I was testing you, I think you passed. I saw you posting large numbers of religious quotes, and thought you might be one of 'them' Perhaps not.

You testing me and might be one of them perhaps not.....You lack so much tact and eloquency even when you are trying to be nice that I would give you a prize.

Originally posted by Jeremy
You do care about what I think, your posts here are testimony to that. If you really feel your relationship is sacred and very private, why do you bring it up?

Gosh, you are so full of yourself. You are noone. Religion discussion is interesting for me, not you. Do you want me to give you evidence that I care nothing about you. Here we go. If you leave the building now and get run over by a car and die, noone here including me will ask about you. Second, as far as my private worship, do you see me worshiping right now....When I worship, noone will know, right now, I'm surfing the net.

Originally posted by Jeremy
Doing right or wrong has to do with ones own choices in life, it has nothing to do with God. I have no fear of God, why would I. Is he not all good? I need not fear anything to know right from wrong. I have no temtation to do wrong, because I know it to be wrong.

I have to completely agree here, nicely written.

Originally posted by Jeremy
Now shall we get back to the thread at hand: ignoring religious writings, why worship God? Would he want it?

Because it is good for our own soul.

The Originator
[35.18] And a burdened soul cannot bear the burden of another and if one weighed down by burden should cry for (another to carry) its burden, not aught of it shall be carried, even though he be near of kin. You warn only those who fear their Lord in secret and keep up prayer; and whoever purifies himself, he purifies himself only for (the good of) his own soul; and to Allah is the eventual coming.

In keeping with moderators request to reduce file size I will refer to previous posts' points by number:

[B]post:Flores on 06-18-03 at 12:54 PM[B]

1: o.k., so I was not nice to test you, but then your other threads (So what will happen to me?) post was not so nice either. I treat people with as much kindness and politeness as they show me or show others. My theory is, politeness is wasted on rude people.

2.You are reading this...so yes, you do care. Although your talk of carrying weapons and cars driving over me is interesting. Hate is emotion. Are you emotionally attached to me in a hateful way? Truly not caring is complete indifference. What would God think about such violent thoughts.

3.

4."good for our own sole". A valid point perhaps? Hmmm. I will think on that.

Originally posted by Jeremy
1: o.k., so I was not nice to test you, but then your other threads (So what will happen to me?) post was not so nice either. I treat people with as much kindness and politeness as they show me or show others. My theory is, politeness is wasted on rude people.

boy oh boy....Do you seriously except people to be nice under a religion forum that involves everything from Atheists, gnostics, christians, muslims, ect.........You are toooo funny....You really need to start going to church if you are looking for a pig barbeque and dancing singing niceness contest atmosphere. Around here, people look for punching bags to vent their thoughts and complains about life. You don't expect me to have these conversations with my collegues or boss at work do you? Or better with my husband.....I'd be fired tomorrow and immediately divorced, so you see, sciforums is helping me keep my job and my marriage....I might start donating to them for that great service.

Originally posted by Jeremy
2.You are reading this...so yes, you do care. Although your talk of carrying weapons and cars driving over me is interesting. Hate is emotion. Are you emotionally attached to me in a hateful way? Truly not caring is complete indifference. What would God think about such violent thoughts.

I really don't care, and I'm not thinking voilently a bit. Just realistically, if I die right now, would you give a damn? Of course not.....Why do you always see the glass half empty when reading my posts? I'm just being brutally honest...that's all.

Flors 06-18-03 at 01:53 PM

1. I think you meant expect people to be nice? Maybe not expect, but hope...yes. It gets back to making the right choice. I choose to be nice, when practical(which is most of the time)? If I am nice to you, you will (maybe) be a little nicer to the next person and so on. Wishful thinking perhaps, but the alternative is worse.

1B. I am not looking for a punching bag (there is that violence thing again....maybe you need more sleep?.:) ) but be my guest, punch away. I am looking for a level headed exchange of ideas from the sole. I do not like it much when people 'rest' an argument on religious writings, using them as a 'proof' of a theory. I am really looking more for thoughts that are strong enough to rest on their own merits. Simple and concise. Almost self evident, if you will. And no, I would not recommend discussing religion in a work setting, etc...and do, please do donate to this forum.

2.Of course I would care if you died, or where hurt. I know you now(in a very, very small way). When I hear of someone dying on T.V. I never feel good about it. Do you? My writings have spent time in your mind, and visa versa, I am now part of you (in a very, very small way of course), all of our interactions throughout life help to form us into whatever we are. If you see a horrible image does it not become part of you? Can you not still see in your minds eye an image of a dead child being plucked out of the ocean after an Air India plane was blown up over the Atlantic more than a decade ago? You may not care much if I live or die, but you still care about my opinion, as you would not be reading this otherwise.

2B. Just for the record: The glass is always full. Think about it.

Re:Flores on 06-18-03 at 12:54 PM

"Because it is good for our own soul. "



Getting back to the thread, how does worshipping God benefit our sole? Go for a walk in the woods, canoe on a lake, lay in the shade on a hot summers day. This is good for your sole. This is enjoying Gods work. To say a little prayer in your head can't get you closer to God, can it? Religion takes you away from this, does it not? It attempts to fill your head with poppycock.

God is OK. if we don't bow down and acknowledge him daily. Try it for one day. Spend a whole day without God or religion in your head. Open your eyes to see the good around you. God does not need to be praised, nor do we need to praise him. It is silly to think he needs such adoration.

You are cool Jeremy, :m:

To not rely on religious scriptures to understand theism and the creation is an impossible thing. Really, we are not capable of understanding things alone, humans needed the guidance and they recieved in the forms of three wonderful developmental phases called Judiasm, Christianity, and Islam. Three phases meant to teach the same thing, but somehow got horribly tangled and confused.

When you ask why worship god? I know you are thinking about one thing....why does god need my worshiping? Your free will and thinking ability is driving you to try to think and justify for god, and that's not possible....unless you accept the notion that the omelet you just made can rise from the plate and start justifying to you why are you eating it and how do you feel about it.... You only need to think and justify for yourself and examine what worshiping does to you and not what it does for god or others.

I appreciate what you call you being nice to me, but please note that you weren't that nice afterall, for I have seen you mock ideas dear to me and mock me even in person. Afterall, I don't hear everyday, she's a bloody muslim, christian hater. If you wish, I can direct you to the post, but it's unnecessary. So please don't paint a distorted picture in your head about how you treat people nice and how people treat you.

Remember, the snake looks all nice too, sitting pretty not saying a word, subtle....then.......Have you ever heard of a loud snake? Oh would that be a stupid snake giving away it's cover. So maybe being loud and forward is nice in the eyes of god, and maybe your quiteness, surface niceness with no reason, or subtelness is as far from nice as you can get.

Originally posted by Jeremy


Getting back to the thread, how does worshipping God benefit our sole? Go for a walk in the woods, canoe on a lake, lay in the shade on a hot summers day. This is good for your sole. This is enjoying Gods work. To say a little prayer in your head can't get you closer to God, can it? Religion takes you away from this, does it not? It attempts to fill your head with poppycock.

God is OK. if we don't bow down and acknowledge him daily. Try it for one day. Spend a whole day without God or religion in your head. Open your eyes to see the good around you. God does not need to be praised, nor do we need to praise him. It is silly to think he needs such adoration.[/COLOR]

You are completely wrong. I for one is very intimite with nature, for I chose environmental engineering to gain a bachelor, Master degree in, and I'm still working in that field. I don't think you have a clue about nature when you go out and take a walk in the wood or a canoe on a lake. Do you ever see the seamless web that connects everything, do you wonder about it? That's god, and to not think about the creator of all this, is not to understand things correctly and not to appreciate it's beauty and connectivity.

For some of us that do feel this beauty of life we are compelled to bow down. Our soul is humbeled by it's vastness, and so we worship, because we need to, and not because we are told to.

I have been crazy before to go and pray outside in nature in the dark, specially on bright nights. I like it, and you aught to try it sometime.

The tangeled mess. "Oh what a tangled web we weave, when we practice to deceive" Religion is a tanlged mess becuase it bases its existance on bowing down to a God who does not want to be bowed down to. All the works of all the prophets were written by us dumb humans. If we can not understand on our own, why would you trust them over your own mind? It is an inconsistent argument. You might respond that Gods work can only be revelled to prophets. I do not buy this.


p.s. My non-nice comments were posed as a question, not a statement. What you consider mocking, is probably due to your sensitive nature on the topic . Sorry to mock.

There are many reasons to worship God, not the least of which is that Satan and his angels hear you.

Why is this bad?

I don't believe God needs our mindless adoration; he/she/it doesn't require anything of us.

It's the reflection on your own thoughts/actions, with improvement in mind, that is important and beneficial to us.

But does God even deserve worshipping. A lot of bad things are happening out there. The freedom of choice argument only goes so far. Bad things DO happen to good people. Why should God get all the credit for life's miracles, and be detached from the horrible events.

Perhaps, then, the gnostics were right in their belief that there were two gods- the transcendental, unfathomable supreme spirit (the true, "good" god) and the evil/ignorant Demiurge.

Hi, everyone. It seems there are different people try to find common in this so complicated matter. My question is: are we , as human souls, in ONE evolutional level or maybe...?

Originally posted by jugla1
Hi, everyone. It seems there are different people try to find common in this so complicated matter. My question is: are we , as human souls, in ONE evolutional level or maybe...?


Are you suggesting that some of us are morehuman than others. That not all are as close to god as......maybe you? We are, as soles, on unequal footing? Is this a Budhist thing? Or maybe us 'sinners' are not as worthy? Is this not what helps to fan the flames of war? That some are less human?

I do not think it is complicated at all, the smoke and mirrors of religion (Wizard of OZ) try to make it so.