If there is any pertinent to the existence of a "God" it surely must be "WHY?".

With this question one can get deeper into the qualitative value of something. So I will ask some "why's"...

WHY did "God" create angels and heaven before he created man?

WHY weren't these angels adequately equipped with free-will and a resemblance of "God" as man has been claimed to be created?

If "God" did create angels with free-will WHY did he need to create man as well?

WHY did god create men and angels(that quirk of so-called perfection known as Lucifer) with the propensity to want to BECOME "Himself" if he did not want them to want to become himself?

WHY is it "God" makes his creations so terribly imperfect? In other words, WHY does he create Adam and Eve "perfectly" yet give them the ability to defy his will; if they were perfect wouldn't they have a very good sense of morality, one that even a child at age four could have? Basically, WHY couldn't Eve realize that when a talking snake tells you to do something that "God" tells you NOT to do, that you shouldn't do it? I mean, come on, a talking snake?! I thought adam and eve were adults, created "morally perfect", and yet they were COMPLETELY inapt to reason: "God says one thing, God is all powerful, God knows best, but this talking snake is telling me to do something that directly defies what God told us; I definitely don't think we should eat that fruit,"??!

WHY couldn't "God" create Adam and Eve "morally perfect"?

WHY couldn't "God" create Adam and Eve with the ABILITY to "sin" but the sagacity, wisdom,keeness, acuteness, morality, and overall maturity NOT to sin(especially when a talking snake tells you to)??

WHY does "God" have a gender?

WHY did "God" create ANYTHING at all?

WHY is "God" so vain?

WHY is it that I, an imperfect, sinful being(created in God's image of course), have enough confidence and self esteem that I would not, under any circumstances, want to be WORSHIPPED for anything, no matter how "perfect and glorious" I was?

WHY is it I, as an imperfect, sinful being(again, created in God's image) can reason that: even though I can kill a colony of ants by stepping on them, though I can give them shelter from rain, though I can focus light on them and singe them mercilessly, though I could drop a piece of bread and feed them for days, that I would NOT want to be worshipped by them because they are such simpler beings than me??

WHY can't an infinitely powerful being reason in the same manner?

WHY do placebos work so damned well?

WHY don't people think before they act(worship)?

WHY is it that when someone's belief-value system is questioned, rationally, and is found to be quite flawed in its very basic premises, and is found to be more propagandistic and mythical than anything else, that they will adhere to it, and with complete disregard for how much they are deluding themselves by doing so?

WHY are so many men so weak, sickly, so pallid with disillusionment, so degenerate with a suprious and completely fantasized "purpose"????

WHY is man AFRAID to be alone?

WHY is "God" afraid to be alone?

WHY do the inadequacies of an infinitely powerful "God" seem rather similar to the inadequacies of a terribly imperfect being such as man; in the manner of "jealousy" "vanity" "repentance" "short temper" and basically any other emotion one would critcize a human for having, but worship a god, an infinitely wise one at that, who has the very same attributes, and acts on them regularly???

WHY is the scent of sheep so insufferable?

The answer to all your rhetorical questions is that irrational human beings want God to exist. I agree with your point. God is obviously a reflection of everything human imagination could conjure up. God is nothing more than a bunch of human concepts that don't truly exist.

Let us accept our inability to be omniscient. Let us not irrationally justify that which we do not know.

Why does God exist?

Because we want him to.

WHY couldn't "God" create Adam and Eve "morally perfect"?

Then they wouldn't have remained conscious. They would have been like any other creature.
That we identify ourselves with our bodies persons keeps us conscious and limited.

WHY does "God" have a gender?

"He" doesn't.

WHY did "God" create ANYTHING at all?

He didn't.

WHY is it that I, an imperfect, sinful being(created in God's image of course), have enough confidence and self esteem that I would not, under any circumstances, want to be WORSHIPPED for anything, no matter how "perfect and glorious" I was?

Because you're not perfect.

You can't know God only by reading the Bible. You have to find him in yourself and talk to him. He will answer all your questions. It's a symbolic thing to say that God "wants" to be worshipped (as though he had human feelings). Sometimes it's necessary to explain God with human language and attributes when humans are trying to describe God for humans.

WHY do placebos work so damned well?

Because of the Mind.

WHY is it that when someone's belief-value system is questioned, rationally, and is found to be quite flawed in its very basic premises, and is found to be more propagandistic and mythical than anything else, that they will adhere to it, and with complete disregard for how much they are deluding themselves by doing so?

They know something that you don't know, and you know something that they don't know.

WHY is man AFRAID to be alone?

Because the natural state of being is to be alone (God)
But man has fallen from that state, and now he feels that there is an external reality apart from him.

Then they wouldn't have remained conscious. They would have been like any other creature.
That we identify ourselves with our bodies persons keeps us conscious and limited.



"He" doesn't.



He didn't.



Because you're not perfect.

You can't know God only by reading the Bible. You have to find him in yourself and talk to him. He will answer all your questions. It's a symbolic thing to say that God "wants" to be worshipped (as though he had human feelings). Sometimes it's necessary to explain God with human language and attributes when humans are trying to describe God for humans.



Because of the Mind.



They know something that you don't know, and you know something that they don't know.



Because the natural state of being is to be alone (God)
But man has fallen from that state, and now he feels that there is an external reality apart from him.

WHY would a morally perfect being be unconscious? I think it's safe to say morality of any kind requires consciousness.

WHY is vanity and want of worship a prerequiste of perfection?


And what about the other "WHY's"?

WHY weren't these angels adequately equipped with free-will and a resemblance of "God" as man has been claimed to be created?

Muslims believes angels don't have free will. Most Christians believe angels were created with free will. The evil angels, those that sinned, abused their free will.


WHY did god create men and angels(that quirk of so-called perfection known as Lucifer) with the propensity to want to BECOME "Himself" if he did not want them to want to become himself?

I don't believe God did. He create Lucifer with the ability to have the desire to become his own god, not with the desire. This ability presumes choice; so Lucifer choose to have the desire to become god.

WHY couldn't "God" create Adam and Eve with the ABILITY to "sin" but the sagacity, wisdom,keeness, acuteness, morality, and overall maturity NOT to sin(especially when a talking snake tells you to)??

Some of these qualities involve choice. You cannot be created wise. No, wisdom is the application of knowledge. You can be born with knowledge but you cannot have wisdom without some amount of choice.


WHY does "God" have a gender?

He doesn't.


WHY did "God" create ANYTHING at all?

Perhaps the attributes of God compell him to create. If God is both good and capable of creating good, then he must create good things to remain good, right?

If there is any pertinent to the existence of a "God" it surely must be "WHY?".

With this question one can get deeper into the qualitative value of something. So I will ask some "why's"...

WHY did "God" create angels and heaven before he created man?

WHY weren't these angels adequately equipped with free-will and a resemblance of "God" as man has been claimed to be created?

If "God" did create angels with free-will WHY did he need to create man as well?

WHY did god create men and angels(that quirk of so-called perfection known as Lucifer) with the propensity to want to BECOME "Himself" if he did not want them to want to become himself?

WHY is it "God" makes his creations so terribly imperfect? In other words, WHY does he create Adam and Eve "perfectly" yet give them the ability to defy his will; if they were perfect wouldn't they have a very good sense of morality, one that even a child at age four could have? Basically, WHY couldn't Eve realize that when a talking snake tells you to do something that "God" tells you NOT to do, that you shouldn't do it? I mean, come on, a talking snake?! I thought adam and eve were adults, created "morally perfect", and yet they were COMPLETELY inapt to reason: "God says one thing, God is all powerful, God knows best, but this talking snake is telling me to do something that directly defies what God told us; I definitely don't think we should eat that fruit,"??!

WHY couldn't "God" create Adam and Eve "morally perfect"?

WHY couldn't "God" create Adam and Eve with the ABILITY to "sin" but the sagacity, wisdom,keeness, acuteness, morality, and overall maturity NOT to sin(especially when a talking snake tells you to)??

WHY does "God" have a gender?

WHY did "God" create ANYTHING at all?

WHY is "God" so vain?

WHY is it that I, an imperfect, sinful being(created in God's image of course), have enough confidence and self esteem that I would not, under any circumstances, want to be WORSHIPPED for anything, no matter how "perfect and glorious" I was?

WHY is it I, as an imperfect, sinful being(again, created in God's image) can reason that: even though I can kill a colony of ants by stepping on them, though I can give them shelter from rain, though I can focus light on them and singe them mercilessly, though I could drop a piece of bread and feed them for days, that I would NOT want to be worshipped by them because they are such simpler beings than me??

WHY can't an infinitely powerful being reason in the same manner?

WHY do placebos work so damned well?

WHY don't people think before they act(worship)?

WHY is it that when someone's belief-value system is questioned, rationally, and is found to be quite flawed in its very basic premises, and is found to be more propagandistic and mythical than anything else, that they will adhere to it, and with complete disregard for how much they are deluding themselves by doing so?

WHY are so many men so weak, sickly, so pallid with disillusionment, so degenerate with a suprious and completely fantasized "purpose"????

WHY is man AFRAID to be alone?

WHY is "God" afraid to be alone?

WHY do the inadequacies of an infinitely powerful "God" seem rather similar to the inadequacies of a terribly imperfect being such as man; in the manner of "jealousy" "vanity" "repentance" "short temper" and basically any other emotion one would critcize a human for having, but worship a god, an infinitely wise one at that, who has the very same attributes, and acts on them regularly???

WHY is the scent of sheep so insufferable?


Why do people ask questions when they have no interest in finding the answers?

Why do people waste their time like the above poster?

All Praise The Ancient of Days

It always amazes me people put such effort into being an anti.

It always amazes me people put such effort into being an anti.

It never amazes me that a person only believes in the blitherings of old shepherds because he doesn't put any effort in.

How would you answer those questions Adstar?

It never amazes me that a person only believes in the blitherings of old shepherds because he doesn't put any effort in.

Straaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwww.

If there is any pertinent to the existence of a "God" it surely must be "WHY?".

With this question one can get deeper into the qualitative value of something. So I will ask some "why's"...
/.../


What answers will you accept? Only such that fit your criteria -- such that go along with your "the scent of sheep /is/ so insufferable"?

Why don't just rather go and bash, say it out loud what you think -- say how much you hate religion, how much you despise the religious! How stupid you think them!


Why give us this passive aggressive shit of yours?! Don't you have the guts to call your next person stupid, don't you have the guts to tell them how much you hate them?

Why don't just rather go and bash, say it out loud what you think -- say how much you hate religion, how much you despise the religious! How stupid you think them!

I did-- just in a much more eloquent tongue.

Why give us this passive aggressive shit of yours?! Don't you have the guts to call your next person stupid, don't you have the guts to tell them how much you hate them?

Certainly not...ha.

***

Now okinrus, the question becomes: if he gave them the ability to desire to become like god, why was Lucifer given the INABILITY to choose wisely? Why was Lucifer created with the flaws of a sinful nature. People don't just decide one day "hey I am going to become a murderer when I grow up," there are a multitude of factors that lead up to their decline. And there is always something in the origin of their mind, that prima causa that gets them to the final point of descent. Why waste free will on angels, why create them at all?Quaeritur.

Why does "God" enjoy so much drama? And why is he afraid to be alone?

Straaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwww.

One can only expect to receive that which they give. In either case it certainly looks like your return post is as useless as you would consider mine to have been. I wonder why you bothered.

the most ridiculous thing is that people will believe in books written thousands of years ago and will turn a blind eye towards the proven facts that intellectuals have proposed today!

Muslims believes angels don't have free will. Most Christians believe angels were created with free will. The evil angels, those that sinned, abused their free will.

If one has free will, how can one abuse it? If the naughty and bad "evil angels" had free will upon their "creation", then they should be free to choose as they wish without abusing anything. They simply exercised their free will. If "God" is that sensitive, free will should not have been on the drawing board when he decided to be creative. No one creates something and says be free to do as you wish and then place restrictions on said freedoms. It's no longer "free" when one can't do what one wants to do or decide as one wishes to.

Why does "God" enjoy so much drama?
Maybe "God" is a drama queen? Attentition seeker? You know, the 'look at me.. look at me' syndrome that immature children have.

Abstar, do you really think those are all humans you are posting with?
Abstar, do you really think those posters are really displaying human qualities?

*hint: arrogant, antagonistic

No one creates something and says be free to do as you wish and then place restrictions on said freedoms. It's no longer "free" when one can't do what one wants to do or decide as one wishes to.

It's that simple isn't it Bells? Yet, so difficult for the weak-in-mind to understand....

To summarize one of my main points all I have to say is this: when one speaks of "freedom of speech" it quite clearly means that one is able to speak on any topic of any origin without fear of capital punishment. This means that those who impose order will never punish one for being free in their choice of words. I can say I hate America, I want follow the Dark Side of the Force, and Satan is King without worrying about getting arrested for treason, blasphemy, or the like, and THAT is what freedom of speech gives me. Thus freedom of will, TRUE freedom of will, should be the same; I should be able to "choose" what I "will" to do (notice an inherent contradiction?) without fear of being punished. Alas, I cannot, thus freedom of will under "God" doesn't exist as propagandized to the herds around the world.

It truly is a quite simple concept, but if you let your own inner conflicts and despair cloud your mind, you will forever delude yourself to believe what "feels right", whichever expedient "faith" proves to be most useful to your own greeds, and your own selfishness, HAS to be right, despite how fallacious it shows itself to be under even the most generous of scrutiny.

the most ridiculous thing is that people will believe in books written thousands of years ago and will turn a blind eye towards the proven facts that intellectuals have proposed today!

What facts are you referring too?

Then it could be that the bible is wrote in such simple terms that the "intellectual"
have missed it's point? These questions are an example, and only with today's
modern science can we answer them.

Humans because of our present level of technology can answer questions that have
plagued scholars for millennium. Questions asked of Ezra about three millennium
ago can now be answered. Questions asked of him such as, "Go, weigh for me
the weight of fire, or measure for me a blast of wind, or call back for me the day
that is past … or show me the picture of a voice … if you solve one of them for
me, then I will show you the way you desire to see … You cannot understand the
things with which you have grown up; how then can your mind comprehend the
way of the Most High?" Since we can now answer these questions and we can
now comprehend, there is a responsibility that accompanies this comprehension.
That also makes us responsible for being able to understand the message.

Or is that too complicated for you, Chris Cunningham?

From Norval Cunningham :D

And you understand the meaning of "freedom of will, without the freedom to will anything other than what you were told to will" ?

hmmm, I haven't been told to "will" anything. :confused:

I can "will" one hand to have money in it, and shit in my other, guess which one WILL get full first? :eek:

Now can you answer those questions? :rolleyes:

If there is any pertinent to the existence of a "God" it surely must be "WHY?".
How so?

Quote CHRISCUNNINGHAM:
“It truly is a quite simple concept, but if you let your own inner conflicts and despair cloud your mind, you will forever delude yourself to believe what "feels right", whichever expedient "faith" proves to be most useful to your own greeds, and your own selfishness, HAS to be right, despite how fallacious it shows itself to be under even the most generous of scrutiny.”

* I think you have put your finger quite squarely on the problem. But the question is: Now that you have identified a personal truth, are you going to act on it? Are you going to reject this Christian nonsense and walk your own honest path?

Allcare.

What facts are you referring too?

i meant they people will believe to all sorts of religious texts, books & scriptures written by uneducated & orthodox people thousands of years ago... and will actually criticize the proven facts of reality today!

* I think you have put your finger quite squarely on the problem. But the question is: Now that you have identified a personal truth, are you going to act on it? Are you going to reject this Christian nonsense and walk your own honest path?

There is no other worthy path than that of Edification.

It has been two years since I was a part of this thread, and have come to realize how little has changed in our humanity. It is still steeped in ignorance, and intellectual indolence. Man still wishes to placate his sublunary propensities of nationalism, self-aggrandizement, and will-to-riches. A sad species man has become.

In the time of the ancients, the universe was that tiny portion of existence on earth. None knew the ineffable scope of existence and perhaps they still do not. But these religions, they are rife with human-simplicity. They exude nothing more than the stench of inadequacy man trails behind him in most of his endeavors for power, money, and self-worth.

To embrace religion is to embrace the ignoratio infinitus: the sterilization of creativity and discovery--a final quietus on edification. In a universe with a hundred billion stars in a hundred billion galaxies...man believes that his place on this pebble amongst a million mountain ranges is one of "complexity" "value" and "purpose" in nature...and yet nature remains wholly indifferent. The universe evolves on a time scale that makes human existence less than a one tick on the clock. Man will come and go, believing that the projection of his ideal self-image, "God", is waiting for him in the afterlife. To give him the valueless emoluments in his dreams, to satiate all appetites of which he was too weak to appease himself, and imbue upon him the granduer that never leaves his thoughts.

"We are human, look at how evolved we are compared to plants and beasts! Surely our desires and dreams are far more important than any other ideals, otherwise they wouldn't be so natural..."

Man will smother himself in his own delusion.

Nature will continue on, wholly and utterly unmoved.

And the ignoratio infinitus will die...having no host to feed upon.

And the spartan intellectuals, the triumphant gladiators standing atop the limp cadavers of their adversaries, will look down with a thin smile, and gracefully outstretch their hand... to embrace eternity.

CHRISCUNNINGHAM
If "God" did create angels with free-will WHY did he need to create man as well?

He likes to watch reality TV, especially Big Brother earth.

As much as Turtle was (or may have been) making a joke, there is something to be said for a deep rooted psychological need of humans to know that they answer to some powerful justice. Some folk cannot conceive that morals are our own responsibility as a child-species approaching stages of maturity.

If "God" did create angels with free-will WHY did he need to create man as well?

Adstar, possibly IAC, and many other Christians believe that man was consciously created by God in response to Lucifer's fall from heaven and his creation or causation of the material universe including planet earth. Satan wanted to be his own God, so what better way to show your power than to create dinosaurs and cavemen? Hence, Satan created the dinos and cavemen.

God looked down at what Satan was doing and was laughing at him and joking around with Michael and Gabriel about how much of loser Satan was. They were laughing at his dinosaur creation and how much of a moron satan was. Then God said, "Enough of this. Let me create man to restore the earth to heavenly status. I'll simply create man, tell them to serve me, and see what happens." God did just that, and man sinned almost immediately after, thus beginning the incestuous mess of a race which exists today.

I'm guessing God's goal is to get as many people as possible into heaven. I'm not sure how many people or what percentage of people would have to reach heaven in order for the restoration to be a success.

IceAge has said that there is a finite and definite number of human souls/spirits. The one's that aren't living here now are simply in a dormant state. All of the souls/spirits will take their turn going through this shithole of an earth and seeing if they can get their name in the Book of Life.

Let's say God created 1,000,000 people total (clearly this is short, I know). If 500,000 people reached heaven, then 50% of God's creation would have passed the test. If 750,000 went, then 75% would have passed the test.

I'm not sure whether God cares what percentage of his creation goes to heaven or not, but I'm guessing the more the better. Anything over 50% is probably satisfactory. Seeing all the sin in the world today, I'm not sure if even 50% of man has reached heaven, but I have no clue what the qualifications are. Apparently, you can murder someone, ask for forgiveness, and then still go to heaven. David, the man after God's own heart, saw a hot woman, sent her husband to the front lines of battle so he would die, then took the hot woman as his own and made love to her every night. So maybe the number is more like 80%.

Everyone else will go to hell where they will be held temporarily and tortured. Then, a little after the Second Coming, they will be transfered to the Lake of Fire where they will swim in liquid fire for eternity and burn alive forever.

_____________________________________

The Hindus believe an entirely different concept. There is no ultimate goal with humanity. There is no end to the material universe as we know it. In fact, the Hindu God didn't even create us consciously or intentially. There are infinite souls which are being created every day and which all will live in the material universe for eternity until they reach heaven, or if they do.