I know it's probably been asked before, but nobody ever seems to answer the question clearly.

The latest part of my book is taking a look at the 'why' question, and your help in this matter would be much appreciated. Here is the question:

Why do you believe in a god/s, but not bigfoot?

(feel free to replace 'bigfoot' with something along those lines that you are happy to dismiss - and please keep your answer short {a sentence or two})

I have currently asked around 7,000 people, but would like at least 10,000 - so I would be very grateful for your help.

Thanks.

I don´t think you´ll get many answers. Threads that pose a question about the personal belief will soon sink down. Believe me, I have tried.

Oh, and I don´t believe in god(s) just as information.

Well, I have no intention of debating, ridiculing or even disagreeing with any answer given - I merely request the help :) If modern day people are as loving and willing to help as they often claim to be, I would expect many responses. I'll pray that people answer.

Bigfoot never wrote a book.

Your question is entirely ambiguous.


You are forcing *us* to make a connection between something we don't believe in and something *we* believe in.

I suggest being a lot more specific. :confused:

It's actually pretty straightforward..

you believe in A but you don't believe in B. Why do you believe in A but not B? Is it because you have evidence of A but not B, that you have the chance of salvation by believing in A but not B? etc etc

The most common answer is that they can feel/have felt god, and spidergoats response is rather common also.

If B is a problem, ignore that part. We can leave it simple and say "why do you believe in god", and although it doesn't answer the question in full, it is sufficient enough for me to work with.

Of course, as it's just a tiny question in what's becoming a rather chunky book-it will look a tad ambiguous. I can only ask you to try your best with what's given, as small as it might be.

I'll try and help with this..

I believe JFK was shot and killed. However, I do not believe he was shot and killed by an unknown man hiding behind the grassy knoll. The reason I believe he was shot is because of video footage etc etc. The reason I don't believe he was shot by an unknown man is lack of evidence to support it, and that conspiracy theories suck :D

Sorry that's just an example I could think of on the spur of the moment. Here's a better example perhaps:

I believe in god because I have felt his presence. I don't believe in bigfoot because trappers would have caught it by now.

unless you have a better explination on how "time" actually started, i would like to hear it

i kno i kno the big bang theory and the chemical reactions to form basic life

but the big bang theory is jsut the best scientific guess on how this world was created

but think this, why are we here?
what purpose do we serve on this planet?

What if I believe in bigfoot but not god? ;)

lol

but what CREATED bigfoot?

i don't know god maybe? ;)

"Why do you believe in a god/s, but not bigfoot?"

Bigfoot is not supernatural. He cannot create something from nothing. God can.

Bigfoot is not supernatural. He cannot create something from nothing. God can.

That would be a better argument for the existence of bigfoot rather than god. :)

Feel free to ask for clarification if I wasn't clear enough.

Oh, I think I understand what you were trying to say. But you also can ask for clarification if I wasn't clear enough. ;)

If bigfoot were supernatural (abel of doing that which cannot take place under normal situations) then why is there no examples of that?

unless you have a better explination on how "time" actually started, i would like to hear it... etc etc

So would this result in: "I believe in god because his existence would explain our existence"?

Is that a fair summary?

As I said earlier, I have not set out to debate science/religion/belief or non-belief, I am simply in need of the "why's" so I can understand your reasons for believing, and hopefully others will too.

Invert: Feel free to tell me why you believe in bigfoot and not god :P

Enigma: You have said twice now that bigfoot is not supernatural, but then I would question why you don't dismiss his existence in a normal natural manner. You do not say there's lack of evidence, or use any natural means by which to deny him, but instead try to deny his existence by using purely supernatural events, (such as creating something from nothing).

What I am saying is this: bigfoot can't create something from nothing - but it doesn't give any credence to him not existing because according to you he's not supernatural, and as such wouldn't be able to do what you mentioned either way, but could still exist just like anything else. You only seem to deny him because there are no examples of him causing supernatural events - which is rather pointless if he's not supernatural. No?

Sorry does this sound confusing? It's 2am :P

However, thanks for your answer. Let me quickly clarify.. You believe in god because he can create something from nothing?

Why do you believe in a god/s, but not bigfoot?

... I have currently asked around 7,000 people, but would like at least 10,000 - so I would be very grateful for your help.
What a waste.

I'm a little confused, but I will try to answer anyways. I don't really care as to whether bigfoot exists or not, but he is not the same as God. I believe in God becuse the evidence around me suggest that he does. It explains how people got here.

Why do you believe in a god/s, but not bigfoot?
my guess would be b/c bigfoot cant promise them eternal life in heaven? :D

If bigfoot were supernatural (abel of doing that which cannot take place under normal situations) then why is there no examples of that?

Clarification is needed, I see. Ok, your original statement posited that you believe in god rather than bigfoot because bigfoot is not supernatural and can't create something from nothing, yet god is supernatural and can create something from nothing. Now, from what I've seen of the world, I'd be more inclined to believe in a creature that fits into the natural realm and doesn't break fundamental laws of nature. Hence, your statement could easily be used in the context as to why bigfoot is more likely than god.

Many "believe" in both. Believing doesn't make it a fact only a way to think about anything, your way.

If something is natural, then is essence it is no differant than I am. If something is supernatural, it is capable of thing I can't comprehend. In my mind it is superior to me and therefore should be praised.

Invert: Feel free to tell me why you believe in bigfoot and not god :P

I never said I did, I only asked what if? ;)

That being said, when I was a child I was visiting my father at his girlfriend's house for the summer. She owned a piece of land way up on a mountain in the middle of the wilderness. There were several strange occurences that occured one particular summer. Dogs going crazy, strange hairy creatures seen down by the pond, doors getting kicked in the middle of the night, strange footprints found. But, I was far too young to recall the incident clearly. And have only the memories of my older siblings to back up my hazy memories. So, it is entirely possible (if not likely) that it was just some hippies or people playing pranks.

So, no I don't really believe in bigfoot. I also think that if it existed, there would have been specimens found by now. The Pacific Northwest does contain quite a bit of virgin forests that have never been tread by man, but there are also a lot of forests that have been infringed upon and we would have found something by now. But, there's always that small chance... :p

If something is supernatural, it is capable of thing I can't comprehend. In my mind it is superior to me and therefore should be praised.

So, you worship Satan lately, then? :)

No. God is superior to satan, and satan is God's enemy, so therfore I am satans enemy since I am allied with God. I take it you have though.

I take it you have though.

Now, that's just a mean-spirited thing to say. Why would I worship God's failed little angel if I don't believe in god? I'm not sure whether to be more offended that you are trying to say I worship an evil entity or that I believe in it to begin with.

I don't mean to offend you with my question, I was merely following your logic to it's ultimate conclusion. If a supernatural being is superior to you and deserves praise then you must praise all supernatural beings that have ever been put forward in the history of man. Vishnuu, Casper, Gozer the Marshmallow Man.

Obviously, you mean to say that you believe and praise one particular supernatural being because you were taught to believe in it. Unfortunately, that gets us no closer to why you believe in god rather than bigfoot. Except you were taught to believe in god but not bigfoot. So, I guess I answered for you? Sorry about that. ;)

Sorry about the worshiping thing. I honestly didn't mean to offend you, I just wasn't thinking. :(

As to the other beings, I see no evidence for Vishnuu, Casper, Gozer the marshmallow man. I do see evidence of God. Yes, I was taght to believe in God, but I also went through a time in my life when I didn't. I wanted to deny the existance of a supreame being, but when I looked around me I knew that there had to be a God of some sort. That left me as an agnostic. Then I begin looking at my options of belief. there where two I could believe, 1 the once was this thing called the big bang and billions of years after that stuff started evolving, or 2 God created everything. I know you will probably strongly disagree with me on this, but option 2 made so much more sense. It explained all of the questions I had been asking. there's other reasons I believe in God, but that is the main reason. Sorry for the sermon :D

Does any body else think that if something occurs then it has to be natural? And to describe something as supernatural is to say that it doesn't exist because if it existed then it would be natural?

Also, you have said that people often respond by saying "Bigfoot never wrote a book" SnakeLord. I wonder why they say that when god never wrote a book either.

As well, using god as an explanation for the existence of life would be to use him as a placeholder until true understanding of the occurrence of life came to light (though I personally believe life is explained quite sufficiently within our current understanding of things), or; people believe that their life must have some sort of purpose.

Perhaps ones own understanding is limited if they rely on a concept of god to clarify the existence of the universe.

hmmm,

a

Well the answer seems valid enough..

From what I can gather, Enigma is saying he believes in god because of the evidence he has to support such belief, but does not believe in other beings due to lack of evidence.

My concern with that is how anyone can use the natural to support belief in the supernatural, but this whole answer comes under the subheading of "everything looks cool so it must have been made". It's an incredibly common outlook.

But anyway... For anyone else who feels kind enough to answer, just use "why do you believe in god". I find the complete question is more easily understood, and answerable when voiced instead of written.

MY belief of the creator is the creation itself. Nothing more or less. Any Atheist is just plain ignorant. Not trying to be mean to them, But they just arent thinking is all. They got a mental block or something.. heck I really dont know what to think about them... :bugeye:

Also, you have said that people often respond by saying "Bigfoot never wrote a book" SnakeLord. I wonder why they say that when god never wrote a book either.

Yeah, many answers 'along those lines', such as: "bigfoot doesn't have books written about him thousands of years ago", "bigfoot never sacrificed himself" yada yada.

While we could pull a few funny faces at these answers, it isn't my place to comment on them just yet, or even question them.

In the grand scheme of things, it seems the overwhelming majority will deny the existence of one being by using an old book as leverage for the existence of another. I have even come across, and been given comments of that nature on this very forum.

If I explain the whole thing now, it kind of breaks apart the question- which is why I asked it in such simple manner.

However, I'd still like to hear some other answers. If you want break it into 2 sections:

1) why do you believe in god
2) why don't you believe in bigfoot [feel free to replace bigfoot for something else]

MY belief of the creator is the creation itself. Nothing more or less.

Biblical creation or similar lines to Enigma in that things are so... 'perfect'? that they must have been created?

Further to that, do you believe bigfoot is a possibility in all of this, (maybe one of gods creations), or is he an absolute no-no?

Try substituting "martians" for bigfoot Snakelord.. ;)

I believe in God because i read The Bible and what is in it is not of this world it is awe-inspiring wisdom. I do not necessarily not believe in big foot the thing might exists, i just have not seen enough evidence for it.

All praise The Ancient Of Days

Man needs an explanation of things beyond his comprehension so he invents one. Naturally he invents an explanation that "works", that has all the bases covered. (That's the whole point, after all.) He's so happy with this that he needs to believe that his explanation - his god - is not an invention after all but, instead, a reality. And what does he use as "proof"? The fact that god explains everything. A nice bit of circular thinking in which man conveniently forgets who really created who.

Lots and lots of different gods popping up throughout time, the one consistent factor being man's need for one.

Man needs an explanation of things beyond his comprehension so he invents one. Naturally he invents an explanation that "works", that has all the bases covered. (That's the whole point, after all.) He's so happy with this that he needs to believe that his explanation - his god - is not an invention after all but, instead, a reality. And what does he use as "proof"? The fact that god explains everything. A nice bit of circular thinking in which man conveniently forgets who really created who.

Lots and lots of different gods popping up throughout time, the one consistent factor being man's need for one.

That is a mighty generalization, especially to apply to all concerning the spiritual.

Try your self therapy elsewhere ;)

I believe in a God because so far, I have no proof either for his existence nor against his existence. Basically, I believe in a God for the sake of completness of logical argument: if you don't know for sure whether something is there or whether it isn't there, you have to accept that it could be there.

The rest is a matter of attitude: What attitude do you have towards things you don't know? Should you be indifferent? Should you worship it? Should you despise it?
I try to be humble and friendly.

As a matter of interest, there is actually more evidence for the existence of bigfoot than god.
The fact it wouldn't require magic for bigfoot to exist in itself makes the idea more plausable than the idea of god. Bigfoot might just be an animal, we know animals exist, in fact we have fossils of an animal that looked alot like bigfoot so it really isn't such a stretch of the imagination that the descendents of those fossils are still around. Lets not even start on the video footage or footprint casts, bigfoot basically has it all over god. Keep in mind there are actually zero pieces of evidence supporting god, hearsay won't hold up in court.

And don't even try to compare believing in god to believing in UFOs. UFOs have mountains of evidence, god would kill for 1% of the backing UFOs have. And again, its comparitively not an outrageous assumption to believe living organisms from other planets are visiting earth and doing deals with the government. Oh it's outrageous, just not AS outrageous as god. We know living organisms exist, and we know there are lots of planets so its not that far fetched that out of all the life harbouring planets that are bound to be in the universe there is 1 or 2 which have evolved animals that have interstellar travel capabilities and are searching for other intelligent lifeforms.
Again, its out there, but it is within the bounds of reality. God can make no such claim. We have no evidence for magic occuring in this universe. No evidence for all powerful entities, or anything spiritual whatsoever.
A reasonable assumption is that the universe was birthed by some other universe or something. From what we've seen thats how things come about.
Things aren't created, we as a species make things using our hands by molding and sticking pieces of our environment together. And we only do this because we developed parts on our bodies for holding onto things, and eventually we figured out to hold onto 2 things at once and stick them together.
Thats not the way things come about though, and there doesn't need to be some guy that stuck the universe together. Only the most simple minded homo sapien would even think like that, I'm sorry but its true. It's like "I make things therefore everything was made". Its the first assumption something that didn't know anything would make. But we do know things.
I just wish people would get their act together and think rationally using the actual knowledge that our species has collected.

I know it's probably been asked before, but nobody ever seems to answer the question clearly.

The latest part of my book is taking a look at the 'why' question, and your help in this matter would be much appreciated. Here is the question:

Why do you believe in a god/s, but not bigfoot?

(feel free to replace 'bigfoot' with something along those lines that you are happy to dismiss - and please keep your answer short {a sentence or two})

I have currently asked around 7,000 people, but would like at least 10,000 - so I would be very grateful for your help.

Thanks.

I belive in god for many reasons. Here are some.

First of all, when I think of the world in the material sense, the galaxies, the stars the precision I don't believe that that can be attributed to chance. It has to be attributed to intellect.

Secondly When I look at the condition nessecary for our mere existence and our survival I think that they beat the odds. It has been arranged for us.

Thirdly when I look at how fine tuned our body is and how it is superbly supplemented by nature, radiations from far stars. And when I see the same things in other species of animal and plants ..etc. I can't help but to think that that is the work of someone whose knowledge encompasses all.

When I contemplate life, death, happiness and other emotions, especially Guilt I think that we are more that just material particals. And so all the self-proclaimed substitues man made to negate the possibility of a God are blown away, as far as I am concerned.

When I think of the world, and when I go beyond "I think, so I exist" I figure that there must be Someone giving structure to this reality. I may doubt that other people truly exist but I know that there is Someone making sure the illusion is running smooth

When I go the railroad central station and I see the hundreds of men and women and childeren going by, and when I try and see the meny many, many thoughts that must be crossing their minds I again say that that can be no product of chance.

When I contemplate the precise reasoning of the Quran, the wisdom of his laws. I undestand that something so wise, so true cannot be the myths of ancient peoples. And I thank that God for it.

When I see how men had become true men, and not just alpha-males, Thanks to that man called Muhamad -peace be upon him- and the good he had done to man-kind and again the logic of what he stated and the laws he received I believe him.

I hope this helps.

From what I can gather, Enigma is saying he believes in god because of the evidence he has to support such belief, but does not believe in other beings due to lack of evidence.

Enigma'07 is trying to say that he believes in God as his savior because there is evidance of his supernatural powers. bigfoot has no evidence of supernatural powers, so therefore it doesn't matter to him wheather or not bigfoot exists. In his mind there is nothing special about bigfoot. Enigma'07 has also had a personal experiance with God, whereas nothing like that has come from bigfoot.

Shit, looks like my statement at the beginning was false...

Let's take Santa instead of Bigfoot (since Bigfoot to my view is possible while I don't think Santa is possible).

I don't think Santa is possible because reindeers don't fly, slades neither, there's not enough time to travel to every single home in 24 hours. I don't believe in Santa because I haven't found anything true about him.

Though Santa does exist on another level, in our imagination and in this form of existance he is allowed to travel to every home because fathers take on the role of santa as a image of our imagination. But Santa needs our imagination to exist, God doesn't.

On the same reasoning I believe in God because there are alot of insights to get from the bible by believing in Him. This shows that God at least are beyond my understanding (since I constantly learn something new about Him) even clarifies the preveious view I had on Him so that it becomes even better.

I have found many reasons to believe in God, while I haven't found any to believe in Santa. I've also seen some of the situations I've experianced being portraited in the Bible which gives more reasons to believe in Him.

To me, God is more real than Santa. Also God has a original nature, while Santa (or Bigfoot) hasn't, God is a unique concept.

Things that have changed my view on God, is "God is a unknown god", "God isn't God for the dead but for the living", "Gods kingdom is within us", "The son will appear like a flash of lightning and be seen from horizon to horizon - even the ones that were crucified with Him will see Him", "For God a day is like thousand years, and thousand years like a day", there are many other things that have "enlightened" me, but these statements show us that God is beyond our understanding and also, to me, shows that He is the only true God.

The most common answer is that they can feel/have felt god, and spidergoats response is rather common also.
It's not so much that God wrote the bible, but that there is a complete system of belief outlined for everyone, and given the credibility of ancientness. If bigfoot had such a system of morality written about him, along with a mythology that places people in a believable context, he might be as popular as God. So, God fulfills a need in people for a comforting metaphor, while for the most part, Bigfoot does not.

Bigfoot never wrote a book.
neither did a god, or his so called son,
though if a book, was written by bigfoot around 2k plus years ago, it would be called the bible.

@ Cyperium

Santa exists. End of story.

//Someone will be getting coal this year.. tee hee hee :D


-------------

We weren't born with a knowledge of big foot/Santa. We don't see the handiwork of big foot/Santa in nature.

Very terse statements but very profound, I assure you.

You weren't born with knowledge of god either. You had to study the bible to get to know this knowledge. If we were born with knowledge of god then the question about the primitives who've never even heard of god would be moot. They'd be born with the knowledge and would act accordingly.

And the handiwork of bigfoot is exactly what is seen in nature. Or should I say footwork? ;) That is what has led to the conjecture of his very existence.

People were born to worship something though. Why is it that every civilization, through all history worshiped/ believed in a god of some sort?

People were not born to worship anything, but needed to provide answers for that which happened around them.

Let's be honest; volcanoes, earthquakes etc are rather ominous and terrifying. If you have absolutely no knowledge of why they occur, but still wanting to give an answer - blaming it all on a vastly powerful space being, (such as the sun which has been worshipped the world over), is a natural course to take.

It's not a surprise that the 'gods' depicted throughout world cultures are also completely dependant upon the environment. In south american beliefs, the 'gods' are serpent in form, (rather like anacondas and other large size snakes that inhabit the region). If you then look towards Egypt you'll notice their gods look like vultures and crocodiles - again animals that are home to the region.

From there let us travel over to India.. Oh my, what a surprise.. their gods are elephants.

Or if we look back at the Red Indians, we'll see they had a certain affinity towards buffalo.

Then you can see things like fertility deities are always females whereas hunter deities are always male.

It is the environment and the culture that determines who and what god is, and how he acts - not vice versa.

It's like how modern day western society has "modified" jesus to such an extent whereby he's now a scrawny white man - which is clearly the daftest of notions - however it is the only way the public will buy into it. He would have no impact whatsoever if everyone imaged him as a dark skinned, curly sideburned jew.

It's not really a surprise that you'll find no original english religion. Our country has no earthquakes, tornadoes or anything of threat. We also have no dangerous animals whatsoever. This country is quite simply so risk free, there would never have been a need to devise a god. English mythology is funnily enough more focused on people; (King Arthur, Robin Hood, etc), and sprites, fairies and goblins. There is also a mass 'superstitious' culture related to birds, (especially magpies- which England is full of).

I will do a much more indepth analysis at some stage, to show just how dependant upon culture and environment a god is, and how when faced with an all-round safe country- there is no such thing as god.

Surly Einstien, Pasteur, Newton, knew how stuff works better than others in their time, and yet the believed in God.

Sure, but that doesn't give any weight to the claim. There are many factors that need to be taken into account first- such as upbringing and cultural impact.

When man first looked at the sky and saw the bright beaming sun, he saw it as a being of immense power. Then writing was developed, and an education system that worked on the back of a belief system. The belief was already firmly established as reality - and was then taught to everyone else as being so. Several thousand years later and it's become an inherent part of humans.

It's also the reason we see 'stories' shared among many different cultures and religions. As an example: The flood story isn't original to the jews, but was written over a thousand years beforehand in Sumeria. It then travelled north to Babylon, Akkadia, Syria and eventually landed in the laps of the Israelites who adapted the story to fit their society and deity. From there it could quite easily navigate itself anywhere.

We must also remember that in the early days many people could not read or write, but were given the "truths" by those who could. They had no way to argue what they were being taught.

Technically I could teach my daughter that the moon is made of goat cheese, and she would be in no position really to state me as being wrong.

Further on through the ages, people have moved past the "belief" systems of old and have used what is present in nature to explain nature. Einstein, Newton, Pasteur.. none of them used supernatural means to come to an answer - they used methods that anyone can adopt and test for themselves, and that is why it's infallible.

Of course though, we're all in a similar position that we can't give a definite to every question out there - and it is that uncertainty, and human need for answers that creates a "gap filler".

People are just not ready or willing to say "I have no idea..", instead they just say "god did it", which is the equivalent of; "I have no idea".

Personally I'm not afraid to say I don't know, and perhaps along similar lines of Newton and Co., I will say there might be some big alien/powerful entity sitting in the cosmos- just like there might be a big bipedal ape strolling through the woodlands of America. Basically what I'm saying is.. "I have no idea.."

However, everything that Newton and the others accomplished, is down to their own ability and effort - For all anyone cares, they could have believed in unicorns and mermaids but it doesn't detract from the fact that the only worth that has come from them is from a world separate to religious belief.

If someone then turns round and says "But I have felt god, so that's proof", I'd congratulate them and state it is proof... for them. But then without the rest of us also "feeling" this god, how would we be able to concur?

It's like the people in the bible, (Moses etc). From the text we can see these guys had pretty much first hand contact with god, and as such would believe in him.. but where does that leave the rest of us who for the past 2,000 years have seen absolutely nothing?

And then as I stated earlier - how would you define something as being an act of god instead of an act of nature?

If you are willing to claim the 10 plagues are an act of god- the same must be true of the bubonic plague and even last weeks thunderstorm. If you are willing to state the bubonic plague was caused by nature, then the same must be true of the 10 plagues, and every other 'disaster' spoken of in the bible.

Either we continue with our religiously inclined societical belief system and look upon every human death as a sinner getting smitten by god, or we trust that science has explained why that guy got struck by lightning etc etc, and realise that nature is the one with the powerful hand, not an invisible sky entity.

I'm pretty sure the majority would understand all this if it weren't for that nagging voice hidden away in their subconcious that reminds them if they don't believe - they burn.

Fear is pretty much the most controlling emotion there is, and it is the foundation of a religious belief system. That is never a good thing - regardless of the topic, be it religion, sport or politics.

Of course, belief systems are based upon fear for several reasons, (the main one explained earlier). Nature isn't exactly.. kind - it can cause extreme devastation, and would do nothing but cause fear within humanity. Then as I mentioned, look at a country that has no natural danger- and you'll find it also devoid of a god. I mean.. could you even imagine a British version of the bible, with god smiting people using red squirrels and badgers?

As for Newton, Einstein and Pasteur.. why do we remember them? Is it because we remember they were smart and said a god might exist, or is it because they advanced the status of mankind by finding out real truths?

Inside each of us is a need to find truth, which is why people "question their faith" on a regular basis.. Simply put, it's just an insufficient gap filler that never actually answers anything - but merely aids in avoiding the question altogether.

Surly Einstien, Pasteur, Newton, knew how stuff works better than others in their time, and yet the believed in God.There is also a big difference between believing in a God and believing that your religion is/knows the truth.

Could you tell me what you see the differance as being?

and given the credibility of ancientness

Sorry Spidergoat, but when did something being old assign it a default credibility, especially when concerned with the ways of a world these ancient people would not and could not understand?

Biblical creation or similar lines to Enigma in that things are so... 'perfect'? that they must have been created?

Further to that, do you believe bigfoot is a possibility in all of this, (maybe one of gods creations), or is he an absolute no-no?

Of course its a possibility. Im not saying we were created overnight like the Bible says.... Im thinking , the "universe" was created by a creator....... our solar system - and or galaxy or whatever fell into place and in time, like ummmmm billions of years here were are :D

Hell Im tininking our Creator got an infinite number of actual creations like ourselves....and not like us at all... heck maybe theres a billion creators..... maybe one day ours will pay us a visit.... shit , anything is a "possibility".

Snakeworld,

I urge you to read my earlier post. especially the first six reasons.

I think that many share that. I think that we all share that. And I think we all are supposed to be looking to find truth and God. He that is above all. I agree with you that men have worshiped - and are still worshipping- animals, planets, men like themselves in vain. But that is only an indication that there is something we naturally long for.

Now not everyone has found it, but it is there. And I propose we apply a criterium you gave to that supreme being. That he is not depended on his environment. And that is how I know my Allah.

Chapter Al-Ikhlas/ Sincerity -complete.

In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful.

(1) Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; (2) Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; (3) He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; (4) And there is none like unto Him.

I further urge you to listen to this.
http://www.islamicawakening.com/playaudio.php?audioID=39
I think this guy -may he be reawarded- sums it very well. The first part is specially usefull for our discussucion. You may listen to the rest of course. I welcome your response then.

Thank you.

May peace be upon you.

@ Cyperium

Santa exists. End of story.

//Someone will be getting coal this year.. tee hee hee :DCan you ask him to make a diamond out of it?


We weren't born with a knowledge of big foot/Santa. We don't see the handiwork of big foot/Santa in nature.

Very terse statements but very profound, I assure you.Do you know that science actually found a center in the brain dealing with experiance that has with God to do? When scientists activated that area (by electricity or something) then people have reported to see visions. From each religion people see the frontfigure, christians for example, see Jesus.

This does NOT mean that it isn't real though, we need religion and this proves it.

I see it as a gift from God, that He has let us know that something else exists, but you got to find it. God is a unknown God, that's why there are so many religions and why everyone has their view on Him, they have found things that "fits" with the feeling, in some culture this becomes alot of different gods, in some cultures it isn't gods at all but magical things and fairies, but we are all describing more or less the same feeling.

When you look at a certain flower, let's take a ordinary red rose, then you get a feeling of it and how it smells. But if you only had that feeling and the smell, then you could intuitivly know what it "looks like".

MY belief of the creator is the creation itself. Nothing more or less. Any Atheist is just plain ignorant. Not trying to be mean to them, But they just arent thinking is all. They got a mental block or something.. heck I really dont know what to think about them... :bugeye:
HA HA you just described a typical theist!!
btw,its not a mental block,its called brainwashing or hypnosis!
cults/churches are all experts in mind control ;)

www.atheists.org

MY belief of the creator is the creation itself. Nothing more or less. Any Atheist is just plain ignorant. Not trying to be mean to them, But they just arent thinking is all. They got a mental block or something.. heck I really dont know what to think about them... :bugeye:
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M*W: OliverJ, I believe this, too. The creator IS the creation. Humanity may have reached adolescence by now. We're still 'maturing.' In other words, we're not finished, yet! The purpose of our existence is to become 'godlike,' but I think it's more profound than that. I believe we are evolving toward becoming God, but we certainly will need a new name -- Perhaps 'El' as in 'electricity.'

Why is creating something out of nothing impossible? A long time ago we thought space travel was impossible... we thought filmless cameras were impossible... we thought cloaning was impossible. Fact is, we've thought a lot of things were impossible and later proven true. Maybe God works through some science that is yet unknown to us? Just as someone can change the laws of physics in an isolated system by using outside forces... perhaps God can change things in our universe by using an outside force.

And the bigfoot thing was disproven when those guys came out and said they made that film clip.

The creator IS the creation

So your saying that parents are also children, and everything is an endless cycle, right?

And the bigfoot thing was disproven when those guys came out and said they made that film clip.
And you believe thats the only evidence of bigfoot?
Why is creating something out of nothing impossible?
The thing is, what created the creator? And why is it possible for him to just appear from nothing but not a universe? If he's allowed to have always existed then why cant the universe have always existed?

And the bigfoot thing was disproven when those guys came out and said they made that film clip.

According to who? The first sighting of bigfoot came back in the 1800's, so a modern day video clips lack of authenticity wouldn't even be an issue.

What I really have a problem with, are people who have the bad habit of using the words "proof", "fact" and other such words in places they don't belong.

Oh and Bruce... Although to be honest I have zero interest in islamic teachings/beliefs, I will do the courtesy of listening to the link you provided as and when you do the courtesy of getting my name right. Really, it's not that difficult.

I know it's probably been asked before, but nobody ever seems to answer the question clearly.

The latest part of my book is taking a look at the 'why' question, and your help in this matter would be much appreciated. Here is the question:

Why do you believe in a god/s, but not bigfoot?

(feel free to replace 'bigfoot' with something along those lines that you are happy to dismiss - and please keep your answer short {a sentence or two})

I have currently asked around 7,000 people, but would like at least 10,000 - so I would be very grateful for your help.

Thanks.
Bigfoots are just ridiculous. I mean... who can believe in such a thing? It obviously doesn't exist. But God can very easily exist. I mean.... anything beyond our universe is completely unknown to us. It is not very hard to believe that God may very well be there. I could even say I'm agnostic, but I actually believe God exists, because along with many things, an infinite universe doesn't make sense as well as a finite universe. I mean... if the universe is infinite, then how can we have time, and present and so on? And if the universe is finite, what created it in the first place? Only God seems to be an answer. Not to mention the Anthropic principle....... :/

Bigfoots are just ridiculous.

I think the correct expression would be: "Bigfeet are ridiculous"


:D

I mean.... anything beyond our universe is completely unknown to us.
Most of our own planet is still unknown to us, so how can you say bigfoot is ridiculous?
And if the universe is finite, what created it in the first place?
But what created that which created the universe? Something must have always existed, why is it acceptable that god has always been there but not the universe?

According to who? The first sighting of bigfoot came back in the 1800's, so a modern day video clips lack of authenticity wouldn't even be an issue.

What I really have a problem with, are people who have the bad habit of using the words "proof", "fact" and other such words in places they don't belong.

Oh and Bruce... Although to be honest I have zero interest in islamic teachings/beliefs, I will do the courtesy of listening to the link you provided as and when you do the courtesy of getting my name right. Really, it's not that difficult.

My apologies SnakeLord, fast typing is not really my thing.

Bigfoots are just ridiculous. I mean... who can believe in such a thing? It obviously doesn't exist.

I think people need to recognise that the whole Bigfoot issue does not rely on any supernatural phenomenon, it can be seen as merely an animal that we have not witnessed very often. People also need to recognise that animals are not publicity seekers, but will mostly do their best to avoid contact with enemies, (and in this respect humans are public enemy number 1).

It's amazing to think that in all my years, and being an Englishman- I have not once ever seen a badger, a mole, red squirrel or an otter. In actuality, I wouldn't even know they existed if it wasn't for nature books. Technically speaking, I have as much reason to believe or not believe in them as I do bigfoot - because my knowledge of all comes solely from text and pictures.

I could then talk about the coelacanth - a creature deemed extinct for the past 300 million years, until fished up a few years ago to the amazement of everyone.

Or we could talk about the 5 entirely new species of monkey found in the 1980's in Brazil alone.

We don't know as much as we think about all the other animals that share the planet with us, and it's safe to say that if they can avoid contact with us- they will.

In saying this, I find your statement of "obvious it doesn't exist", as a bit presumptuous and a little too early in the day.

There have been witness sightings since back in the 1800's - pictures, video and reports. Of course, there are people who would perhaps lie, twist or get confused with their account - but no more than people would have lied, twisted or got confused several thousand years ago during the writing of the bible.

Then we move on to the second part of your post:

But God can very easily exist. I mean.... anything beyond our universe is completely unknown to us.

This is pretty much the key problem, and I will quote two words you've used: "completely unknown". Everything we know about life can currently be explained by natural means. This isn't a guarantee that god doesn't or cant exist - but merely to state that at our level of knowledge, there is no need to include it as any form of explanation. By the same token, Bigfoot itself could have created the universe - but you can see how worthless a statement that is. As a lot is "completely unknown", there is no place to assign an answer to any of it.

but I actually believe God exists, because along with many things, an infinite universe doesn't make sense as well as a finite universe. I mean... if the universe is infinite, then how can we have time, and present and so on? And if the universe is finite, what created it in the first place? Only God seems to be an answer.

This is a very often used "excuse", to which there's a simple enough answer- that Lemming3k has supplied for you.

Either way, thanks for your response.

Most of our own planet is still unknown to us, so how can you say bigfoot is ridiculous?
Because bigfoot is defined as "half man, half animal" and that is just ridiculous.... :rolleyes: :D


But what created that which created the universe? Something must have always existed, why is it acceptable that god has always been there but not the universe?
If God is beyond our universe, He is also beyond time. It doesn't make sense to define God in terms of time, because God doesn't experience time in the first place. There is no problem of an infinity of time for God, simply because for God, time does not exist. :)

SnakeLord,

Ok. About the bigfoot, the same I said to Lemming. It is ok if the "bigfoot" is an animal, but to say that he is half man, half animal is just ridiculous....
This is pretty much the key problem, and I will quote two words you've used: "completely unknown". Everything we know about life can currently be explained by natural means. This isn't a guarantee that god doesn't or cant exist - but merely to state that at our level of knowledge, there is no need to include it as any form of explanation.
I agree with that.... but remember that I'm talking about stuff that is beyond our universe.....

By the same token, Bigfoot itself could have created the universe
:p

- but you can see how worthless a statement that is.
Well.... definetely not "bigfoot created universe"... :D


As a lot is "completely unknown", there is no place to assign an answer to any of it.
It is not a matter of assigning an answer, it is a matter of thinking about all the possibilities and finding out that there is no way the universe could have been created without God. Perhaps it is that way, but we would need to assume how the "outer universe" is. Since we cannot know for sure what is going on outside our universe, any answer that we can come up with will be assigned - even if it is scientific. If we cannot prove it, it is just a hypothesis and falls in the "belief" category .


This is a very often used "excuse", to which there's a simple enough answer- that Lemming3k has supplied for you.
Check out my answer to him, then... ;)

Because bigfoot is defined as "half man, half animal"
Bigfoot has been defined as many things, and it may never be known how rediculous these things are.
that there is no way the universe could have been created without God
That makes the assumtion it was created, and still that leaves you with a magical being that defies time itself as the most likely thing to have simply always been, even more likely than the universe simply having always been, i find it more logical that which we can observe may have always been than that which can never be observed.
Since we cannot know for sure what is going on outside our universe,
That assumes the universe is not infinite.

I know it's probably been asked before, but nobody ever seems to answer the question clearly.

The latest part of my book is taking a look at the 'why' question, and your help in this matter would be much appreciated. Here is the question:

Why do you believe in a god/s, but not bigfoot?

(feel free to replace 'bigfoot' with something along those lines that you are happy to dismiss - and please keep your answer short {a sentence or two})

I have currently asked around 7,000 people, but would like at least 10,000 - so I would be very grateful for your help.

Thanks.

hey snakelord,

i believe in God, and i believe that bigfoot could exist. nothing is impossible.

peace.

Ok. About the bigfoot, the same I said to Lemming. It is ok if the "bigfoot" is an animal, but to say that he is half man, half animal is just ridiculous....

Why?

I don't mean to push you, but it does take more than "it's ridiculous". Please... give some reasons.

I agree with that.... but remember that I'm talking about stuff that is beyond our universe.....

Well here's the problem... None of us, (including you), knows anything about anything "beyond our universe", and none of us can even say there is anything "beyond our universe". In fact, the statement itself is completely without worth or merit.

While I appreciate the opinions, I hope you understand it has no value whatsoever... to anything.

It is not a matter of assigning an answer, it is a matter of thinking about all the possibilities and finding out that there is no way the universe could have been created without God.

According to who? C'mon TS, we haven't even established that the universe ever was created to begin with. Not to mention that there are many ways, as debated often by the most intelligent people on the planet. Yet for some reason here you are, dismissing anything they have to say on the subject because you would personally prefer to assign it all to some being you know nothing about - but presume to know so much about, (as we'll see shortly).

Check out my answer to him, then...

Ok. Here it is:

It doesn't make sense to define God in terms of time, because God doesn't experience time in the first place. There is no problem of an infinity of time for God, simply because for God, time does not exist.

May I ask who gave you this information? Did you sit down and have a chat with god and listen to him tell you time does not exist for him etc?

No offence, but your statements all come down to simple guesswork and make believe. You have absolutely nothing with which to give your statements any credibility, from your opinions about the universe to your assumed knowledge of a god being.

In short what you're saying is "I have no idea".

What I question is why people bother going through all the bollocks in the first place when they might aswell just start with "I have no idea".

What I question is why people bother going through all the bollocks in the first place when they might aswell just start with "I have no idea".

It's not that they have no idea, It's just difficult to explain to some one who thinks the earth is flat that it is actually round.

It's not that they have no idea, It's just difficult to explain to some one who thinks the earth is flat that it is actually ovular.
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M*W: Why is it so complicated? Christians believed the Earth was flat well into the 15th century! Not only is the Earth not flat, humanity reigns as God. Is there anything else you need to know?

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M*W: Why is it so complicated? Christians believed the Earth was flat well into the 15th century! Not only is the Earth not flat, humanity reigns as God. Is there anything else you need to know?

Why do you hate Christ?

Bigfoot actually does exist. As a matter of fact I'm having a drink with him right now. What a lush...he drank all my wine. Ate all my chips too. Whatapig!

Why do you hate Christ?

I think that this (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=37511) thread shows why.

It's not that they have no idea, It's just difficult to explain to some one who thinks the earth is flat that it is actually round.

It's not difficult at all. You can fly them around the planet, show them photographs and use many other methods to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, that this planet is actually "round".

That is why there is not one sane person who says the planet is otherwise.

On the other hand there is nothing but personal opinion and assumption- which is what makes the difference.

They have no idea, you have no idea and I have no idea. If you actually have something with which to refute that, then kindly present it here and now. I dare you. I triple dare you.

Think back to the 1400's when people thought the earth was flat and try using the technology they had then. Then fast- forward to 2000. It is clear that the earth is round to us right? well, religiously, we are in the 1400's. 2000 is when every knee will bow, and tounge confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. 2000 is judgement day.

Think back to the 1400's when people thought the earth was flat and try using the technology they had then. Then fast- forward to 2000. It is clear that the earth is round to us right? well, religiously, we are in the 1400's. 2000 is when every knee will bow, and tounge confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. 2000 is judgement day.

What a wonderful sermon... :rolleyes:

The two issues are completely unrelated, but as you seemingly want to try and put them together, (pretending they have relevance to each other), let me point out something..

In the 1400's people thought the earth was flat.. until technology proved that was just a load of old cobblers.

You state that religiously speaking, you're in the 1400's.. I guess it's just a matter of time before that's shown to be a load of old cobblers aswell.

I'd be inclined to agree that religious people are back in the 1400's - actually, way way before then, and it's only when you start progressing, moving forward, and evolving that you'll realise for yourself that it is all cobblers.

Still, what you state as going to happen, (either due to some seriously powerful psychic ability of yours, or perhaps god told you), has no chance whatsoever unless for some bizarre reason humans forget all about the need for evidence and facts.

Either way my challenge stands. Can you give me anything other than personal opinion and assumption to claim your god or beliefs as real or valid? If not, my question over why you believe in god but not bigfoot still stands.

2000 is judgement day.
What year is it again? Is it not 2004? Your supposed judgement day has passed, as has nostradamus's prediction date for the end of the earth, you'll be harping on about the millenium bug next.
well, religiously, we are in the 1400's.
Im sure thats the first sensible thing about religion i've heard all day.

What year is it again? Is it not 2004? Your supposed judgement day has passed, as has nostradamus's prediction date for the end of the earth, you'll be harping on about the millenium bug next.

No, you misunder stood me. It was an illustration that wasn't meant to be taken litteraly. it was a comparason of how ideas change as more information became availible. Sorry for the confusion.

it was a comparason of how ideas change as more information became availible.
Sad thing is it was believed by christians a while back, and your either christian or your not, i dont know where they got the idea from but if they got the idea from your holy book that the world would end you should believe it too, if they just picked 2000 as a random date then several were wrong.

No, you misunder stood me. It was an illustration that wasn't meant to be taken litteraly. it was a comparason of how ideas change as more information became availible. Sorry for the confusion.
No, they didn't misunderstood. They just bend the stuff around to make the illusion that it is not an illustration..... :rolleyes:

"if they just picked 2000 as a random date then several were wrong."

No. There is NO predicted date. I randomly made up 2000 for an example.

No. There is NO predicted date. I randomly made up 2000 for an example.

If that were the case, I would question over why the religious masses are so focused on the end coming some time this week. Honestly, I've never seen so much doom and gloom as I have when speaking to those of a religiously inclined nature.

However, let us not forget that jesus stated the end would come to the people of his time, saying: "before this generation has passed away"..

Oopsie, so far he's only 2000 years late.

Think back to the 1400's when people thought the earth was flat and try using the technology they had then. Then fast- forward to 2000. It is clear that the earth is round to us right? well, religiously, we are in the 1400's. 2000 is when every knee will bow, and tounge confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. 2000 is judgement day.

I must admit, until this moment I had no idea you hated God this much. To blaspheme maliciously against the Messiah by speaking these things which are not true, to shame Isaac and Jacob with such words..

Excommunication is imminent! :mad:

No, they didn't misunderstood. They just bend the stuff around to make the illusion that it is not an illustration..... :rolleyes:

Same thing I was thinking.. :eek:

No. There is NO predicted date. I randomly made up 2000 for an example.
Then why did religious people get so hyped up about judgement day being midnight january 1st 2000? Did you miss out on all the 'the world is going to end' fun? Theres a lot going to hell i guess for saying that.

However, let us not forget that jesus stated the end would come to the people of his time, saying: "before this generation has passed away"..

this refers to the Church Age generation, the time after Christ's resserection and befor His second comming.

Then why did religious people get so hyped up about judgement day being midnight january 1st 2000? Did you miss out on all the 'the world is going to end' fun? Theres a lot going to hell i guess for saying that.

They were wrong to predict a date. Jesus said that the only one that knows when the secondcoming will be is God. It will come unexpected, like a thief in the night.

Guess lots are going to hell then for believing it over gods word.

this refers to the Church Age generation, the time after Christ's resserection and befor His second comming.

I hereby declare that all I need is a 10 minute rest before My second comming.

I hereby declare that all I need is a 10 minute rest before My second comming.

Then you must be around 19 ;)

Then you must be around 19 ;)

Well, OK, let's make it 20 minutes...

If you believe that the universe is proof that there is a creator, then why can't he appear to us in person? It's not like he doesn't want to 'force' himself on us. His creation (the universe) is ALREADY forcing us to believe that there must be a god. So if he did appear to us then it really wouldn't be such a surprise. It's like looking at a painting and wondering if it was painted by an artist. If it's obvious that the painting must have been created by an artist then why can't the artist just make himself known?

If you believe that the universe is proof that there is a creator, then why can't he appear to us in person? It's not like he doesn't want to 'force' himself on us. His creation (the universe) is ALREADY forcing us to believe that there must be a god. So if he did appear to us then it really wouldn't be such a surprise. It's like looking at a painting and wondering if it was painted by an artist. If it's obvious that the painting must have been created by an artist then why can't the artist just make himself known?

Shyness, probably.

If you believe that the universe is proof that there is a creator, then why can't he appear to us in person? It's not like he doesn't want to 'force' himself on us. His creation (the universe) is ALREADY forcing us to believe that there must be a god. So if he did appear to us then it really wouldn't be such a surprise. It's like looking at a painting and wondering if it was painted by an artist. If it's obvious that the painting must have been created by an artist then why can't the artist just make himself known?

He has. And people didn't believe. They wanted to crucify him. But he will come again, one day.