Why do you believe in Jesus?

Or more specifically:

Why do you believe that a man named Jesus existed that was the Son of God?

The scriptures reveal Him. It’s as simple as that. His message, deeds and the Word of God. He is the fulcrum point of Gods plan of salvation for us.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

I had an unforgetable experience when I was born again.

IceAge,

Did this experience involve God or Jesus speaking to you in an audible voice? Or was it a miracle which you believed could not have been anything other than a God, or Jesus?

Personally, I had an intersting experience one time. I was driving towards a busy intersection and the traffic light was red. I was on a slight downward slope going about 40 mph. When I tried to brake for the light, apparently the brakeline snapped off because it was rusty. The pedal went right to the floor and I was going about 45 mph now at a red light on a busy intersection. The last thing I wanted to do was go right through the light because there were buildings on both corners of the street I was on and I had no idea what cars were coming. The speed limit of the road I was intersecting was 40 mph.

Anyway, I ended up aiming the car to the right and slammed into a cement building which was on the corner of the road. I hit it at a 45 degree angle so it straightened the car back out and directed me back over the road I didn't want to go over, but at a much slower speed, so no one hit me.

The point is, I didn't plan on doing what I did and aiming the car at the building. That thought never consciously entered my mind. I just did it. In fact, I was thinking about trying to make a U-Turn because I was in panic mode. Clearly a U-Turn would have been impossible at 40 mph on a two lane road. I don't know whether it was a right or wrong move to drive into the building. I don't know what would have happened if I went right through the light and took my chances. What I do know is that I didn't conciously make the decsion to do what I did. It was as if some other force was controlling my hands.

Could it have been instinct? Possibly. Could it have been God? Possibly.

IceAge,

Did this experience involve God or Jesus speaking to you in an audible voice? Or was it a miracle which you believed could not have been anything other than a God, or Jesus?

Personally, I had an intersting experience one time. I was driving towards a busy intersection and the traffic light was red. I was on a slight downward slope going about 40 mph. When I tried to brake for the light, apparently the brakeline snapped off because it was rusty. The pedal went right to the floor and I was going about 45 mph now at a red light on a busy intersection. The last thing I wanted to do was go right through the light because there were buildings on both corners of the street I was on and I had no idea what cars were coming. The speed limit of the road I was intersecting was 40 mph.

Anyway, I ended up aiming the car to the right and slammed into a cement building which was on the corner of the road. I hit it at a 45 degree angle so it straightened the car back out and directed me back over the road I didn't want to go over, but at a much slower speed, so no one hit me.

The point is, I didn't plan on doing what I did and aiming the car at the building. That thought never consciously entered my mind. I just did it. In fact, I was thinking about trying to make a U-Turn because I was in panic mode. Clearly a U-Turn would have been impossible at 40 mph on a two lane road. I don't know whether it was a right or wrong move to drive into the building. I don't know what would have happened if I went right through the light and took my chances. What I do know is that I didn't conciously make the decsion to do what I did. It was as if some other force was controlling my hands.

Could it have been instinct? Possibly. Could it have been God? Possibly.

Maybe Someone wanted to keep you alive? But maybe it was just instinct taking control in a time of great stress?

You see most experiences like that can be embraced as a proof of God by those who believe. But it also can be explained away as instinct or something else by those who do not want to believe.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

I believe that was God, but to be born again, you must "talk" to God sincerely about your spiritual situation.

I was real hung-over one morning, and had been watching Robertson and Jim and Tammy Faye for a few months, drinking beer and mocking them, but that morning, real hung over and depressed, I just said "Oh God," in a repentent needy attitude, and right then, a beam of light started about a foot from the left side of my forehead and went into to my head, and it was then as if scales came off of my eyes, everything was brighter and clearer than I had ever seen, and zero hangover, that's the kicker, it could not have been alcohol induced because the hang-over was completely gone, and I was hopping around the room like a four year old at the Christmas tree.

I do believe that your being genuine, and that what you experienced could definetly be a sign from God.

I found the end of the movie "The Da Vinci Code" very interesting. Tom Hanks talks about the story where he fell into a well and somehow survived. He stated something like: "I might not have been alone in that well. It all comes down to what you believe."

Immediately I was recalled of my small car accident incident. The same idea was present there as well.

Like the mystery man in the fire with Daniel and his cohorts.

I guess its because I have been held down to the point that I would do the same thing to let another boy or girl know it is not what they deserve

Surely all these things dicate a belief in god in general, i think the original question was why do you believe Jesus to be summonded son of God.

I was real hung-over one morning, and had been watching Robertson and Jim and Tammy Faye for a few months, drinking beer and mocking them, but that morning, real hung over and depressed, I just said "Oh God," in a repentent needy attitude, and right then, a beam of light started about a foot from the left side of my forehead and went into to my head, and it was then as if scales came off of my eyes, everything was brighter and clearer than I had ever seen, and zero hangover, that's the kicker, it could not have been alcohol induced because the hang-over was completely gone, and I was hopping around the room like a four year old at the Christmas tree.

Hurry go to a psychiatrist, you are having a bipolar disorder:

What Are the Symptoms of Bipolar Disorder?
Bipolar disorder causes dramatic mood swings—from overly "high" and/or irritable to sad and hopeless, and then back again, often with periods of normal mood in between. Severe changes in energy and behavior go along with these changes in mood. The periods of highs and lows are called episodes of mania and depression.

Signs and symptoms of mania (or a manic episode) include:
Increased energy, activity, and restlessness
Excessively "high," overly good, euphoric mood
Extreme irritability
Racing thoughts and talking very fast, jumping from one idea to another
Distractibility, can't concentrate well
Little sleep needed
Unrealistic beliefs in one's abilities and powers
Poor judgment
Spending sprees
A lasting period of behavior that is different from usual
Increased sexual drive
Abuse of drugs, particularly cocaine, alcohol, and sleeping medications
Provocative, intrusive, or aggressive behavior
Denial that anything is wrong
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/bipolar.cfm#bp1

Not me, but thanks for your concern.

The scriptures reveal Him. It’s as simple as that.

I would ask therefore whether you then also believe in Gilgamesh or one of thousands of other gods/demni-gods? If your entire basis is that "it's been written about, it's that simple" then surely you must believe in a myriad of god like beings?

If not, why not?

The Bible passages fit seamlessly, the Gilgamesh Flood is obviously a bastardization of the accurate account in Genesis, which reads like a ship's log.

The Bible passages fit seamlessly

Not really, no.

the Gilgamesh Flood is obviously a bastardization of the accurate account in Genesis

It can't be. It was written at least 1,500 years before the genesis account. I know you'd like to believe the biblical account was the original, but unfortunately it isn't - regardless to your personal wants.

All but the first "these are the generation of's....." in Genesis were written by eye witnesses, generations means origins, toledot in the Hebrew.

All but the first "these are the generation of's....." in Genesis were written by eye witnesses

To know that you must have been an eye witness of these eye witnesses. Or are you saying that an author claims he was an eye witness and that's good enough for you?

You cannot pull the "eye witness" nonsense in this case. It wont work.

And once again.. the Utnapishtim flood account was written over a millennia and a half before the genesis account. You can't dispute that, sorry.

Just because we have an earlier but sloppy account of the Deluge from other than the Jews doesn't mean the Jewish patriarchs weren't also compiling records at that time, and the format of "these are the generations (origins) of..." in the Genesis account bespeaks eyewitness accounts, reported on cuneiform tablets (the Hebrew word for to write, is to cut in, into clay tablets), signed off on at the bottom, in a collophon, traditionally signed by the owner or scripter of the tablet.

Moses had a stack of these tablets, and edited and redacted them as needed.

Just because we have an earlier but sloppy account of the Deluge

Please provide something of substance to support your claim that the earlier deluge stories were "sloppy". Bet you can't.

Jewish patriarchs weren't also compiling records at that time

Abraham, (a Sumerian), hadn't founded the jews until after the flood. god didn't give him his orders until the flood had come and gone. Before this the records that would have been kept were by Sumerians and several other cultures - but no jews because there weren't any.

In the very first pages of the bible we see that the garden of eden was in Sumeria... This means that the very first people to start "compiling records" were Sumerian of origin. No jews involved.

Moses had a stack of these tablets, and edited and redacted them as needed.

He did? Where's the evidence?

I said the ancestors of the Jews, and how do you know that Shem, Arphaxad, Terah etc. didn't keep the accounts which would become Genesis?

The format of the "these are the origins of's......" are Middle East cuneiform style, with a collophon sign off at the bottom by the owner, and why do you suppose the Hebrew word for to write is to cut in, if they weren't writng cuneiform style?

Not me, but thanks for your concern.

Forgot to read the last symptom? "Denial that anything is wrong"? the symptoms fit your character to a T, specially has they have been displayed here on this forum, it's obvious that we don't see your mood swings in real life, but I wouldn't dout that you have them, told by your own accounts ;)

I said the ancestors of the Jews, and how do you know that Shem, Arphaxad, Terah etc. didn't keep the accounts which would become Genesis?

The ancestors of the jews were Sumerians, the founder of the jews was Sumerian, the garden of eden was in Sumeria, the Sumerian writings of the flood would, by being written 1,500 years earlier, be much more accurate than any version told a millennia and a half later.

There is no "ancestor of the jews" account of the deluge other than that. When Moses writes about deluge, he is talking from 1,500 years after the Sumerians wrote about it.

The format of the "these are the origins of's......" are Middle East cuneiform style, with a collophon sign off at the bottom by the owner, and why do you suppose the Hebrew word for to write is to cut in, if they weren't writng cuneiform style?

I fail to see the relevance of this. The origin of many Hebrew words comes from Sumerian, (who wrote on tablets). Even several of their months are named after Sumerian gods.

The point here is that the biblical deluge story has been written 1,500+ years after the Sumerian deluge story and can therefore not be considered anywhere near as accurate. Of course you try to label it as "sloppy" but cannot support that claim in any way whatsoever.

The line from Noah to Abraham is through Shem, whose son Asshur is the namesake of the Assyrians, Nimrod, from Ham and Cush, was the big dog over Sumer.

Everybody lived in that region after the Deluge, before they began to disperse around the world by land and sea, and another son of Shem, Arphaxad, was of the line which would produce Abraham.

The Sumerian Deluge account and the Jewish one both describe the same event, the global Deluge, corroborated by hundreds of ancient global Deluge legends from seemingly disparate people groups, the Sumerian account, like all the rest, are plainly bastardized, but obviously describe the same event.

The Sumerian Deluge account and the Jewish one both describe the same event, the global Deluge, corroborated by hundreds of ancient global Deluge legends from seemingly disparate people groups, the Sumerian account, like all the rest, are plainly bastardized, but obviously describe the same event.

A) You keep making the same undeniable mistake: The Sumerian account predates the biblical account by 1,500+ years. The biblical account is the one that is "bastardized". You simply cannot refute that.

B) You say "corroborated", when the fact of the matter is that there's no "real" evidence to suggest a global flood ever took place. While cultures do borrow stories off of each other, that doesn't hint at the reality of that story - especially in a time when the world would have seemed so small. A global flood in their eyes would have been but a small river flood - which happens even today in many places on the planet.

Again I repeat: There is no evidence to suggest a global flood ever happened.

Again I repeat: By that very fact that it was written 1,500 years earlier, the Sumerian stories cannot be a "bastardization" of biblical accounts - because those biblical accounts didn't even exist at the time.

"A global flood in their eyes would have been but a small river flood," ahahahaha.

Hey Snake, if it was "but a small river flood," then why did only eight survive, don't you think those people were smart enough to walk up a hill?

Hey Snake, if it was "but a small river flood," then why did only eight survive, don't you think those people were smart enough to walk up a hill?

The tsunami.. couldn't the people have just climbed onto the top of their houses? "Disasters" are always worse when you're in the middle of it. Climbing up a hill is easy from our perspective, but a lot more difficult when slap bang in the middle of a "disaster". Our times have many things in place to prevent disaster but they can and do still occur but the same is not true of people of ancient times. What is seemingly easy for us sitting at home comfortably will soon change if it came to the crunch.

However, while we could debate the finer points I think the last post I made left enough to work on.

Why would anyone, and I mean anyone, describe "but a small river flood" as a Global Deluge?

Why would anyone, and I mean anyone, describe "but a small river flood" as a Global Deluge?

How did they know it was global? Was it on CNN at the time?

Did Jesus exist? I believe that a very spiritual man named Jesus most probably existed, he was crucified most likely, but was he the son of God is another question. The main gospels were written many years after his death, so stories get exagerrated, were the miracles he performed likened to the ones we see today performed by "faith healers". Spiritual Healers channel God's healing powers through their bodies, they say it works!! So if you believe in Jesus fair enough.

Because the survivors floated in a vessel on the waters which covered the entire pre-Deluge Earth (the mountains rose at the close of the Deluge).

IAC: Just because we have an earlier but sloppy account of the Deluge from other than the Jews doesn't mean the Jewish patriarchs weren't also compiling records at that time, and the format of "these are the generations (origins) of..." in the Genesis account bespeaks eyewitness accounts, reported on cuneiform tablets (the Hebrew word for to write, is to cut in, into clay tablets), signed off on at the bottom, in a collophon, traditionally signed by the owner or scripter of the tablet.

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M*W: What about the original version of the Code of Hammurabi? That turned into the later, plagarized, sloppier copy of the Ten Commandments, thanks to Moses, the Egyptian.

Moses had a stack of these tablets, and edited and redacted them as needed.

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M*W: Yeah, the Egyptians as a whole "had a stack of these tablets," to do with them what they saw fit. Your point?

The stories of Moses in the bulrushes, the Exodus, burning bush, the Ten Commandments, the Promised Land, and more, were not original, were not written by the Egyptian Moses, and did not occur as real events. No golden chariots were found in the Red Sea, and no shards were left by nearly a million Egyptian Abiru (ancestors of the Hebrews) while they traversed the Sinai Desert. No Jew made it to the Promised Land, but many hundreds of thousands of Egyptians did but not during any Exodus, but Moses didn't live to write about his own death. That was done by Egyptian scribes, no Hebrews in sight! In fact, if you want to go as far back as history will take you, the ancient Egyptian Abiru who became the Hebrews, were sun worshippers. Abraham was a pantheist who became a monotheist sun worshipper. All ancient man-made religions worshipped the one creator god, the Sun.

There are no eyewitnesses to anything in the entire bible. Why? Because it's a work of fiction.

sidalby: Did Jesus exist?

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M*W: There is no evidence to his existence.

I believe that a very spiritual man named Jesus most probably existed, he was crucified most likely, but was he the son of God is another question.

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M*W: Sure, a man named Jesus could have probably existed, there is absolutely no Roman record of the crucifixion of a man named Jesus.

The main gospels were written many years after his death, so stories get exagerrated, were the miracles he performed likened to the ones we see today performed by "faith healers".

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M*W: Regardless of when the gospels were written, they were works of fiction. There were no miracles then, and there have been no miracles by modern-day faith healers.

Spiritual Healers channel God's healing powers through their bodies, they say it works!! So if you believe in Jesus fair enough.

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M*W: I don't believe in the fine art of channeling. The only thing we each channel through bodies is our own bioelectrical energy. There is no god to channel through.

Why would anyone, and I mean anyone, describe "but a small river flood" as a Global Deluge?

He was exaggerating to make a point. Frankly, any flood that wiped out a good portion of the surrounding area would have seemed as though the entire world flooded. Since the flood accounts by the Sumerians predates any vessel that could have traveled very far with the rations that would have been available, it would have been essentially impossible for the Sumerians who documented the event to know that the world wasn't covered with water. Do you also believe that two of every species managed to fit on a boat with eight people? Not only billions of animals, but rations for them as well? Or did everything magically fit and forgo food? I, personally, do not feel that there is a reason to share even the more liberal beliefs of Christianity (i.e. believing that most of the bible is full of stories that gave a moral and were divinely inspired), but accepting the Christian bible as literally true despite its direct contradictions with scientific knowledge is ridiculous.

Godless, Snakelord, Medicine woman, you are destroying this thread. The religious members were trying to talk about why they believe in Jesus, and I was very interested to hear about IceAgeCivilization's experience with Jim and Tammy Faye.

It is revealing that the formative experience for him was not based on an examination of scriptures, but a spontaneous and unexpected occurance.

I apologize for assisting ruining your thread. I'll stay out of it unless I end up with something relative to say.

Why would anyone, and I mean anyone, describe "but a small river flood" as a Global Deluge?

How would you expect them to know whether it was global? Sattelite imaging perhaps? it's all about perspective Iceage..

We're not talking 2007 here, we're talking thousands of years ago where one village would have seemed massive in comparison to the believed size of the earth.

Godless, Snakelord, Medicine woman, you are destroying this thread

My apologies, Was not my intention - just got dragged down questioning Adstar's little gem..

I.D., syngameons.

And river floods flood valleys, hardly the whole world.