The one thing that most theists I have ever met or read their texts have in common is a tendency to lack empathy for other humans.

It's as if theists are completely unable - or unwilling - to even try to place themselves in the other person's situation.
Instead, theists tend to treat other people as if they don't exist.
It has to be either the theist's way - or the highway.


Why is this?

i think it has to do with identification with absolute authority or 'god'. basically, some theists want absolute power themselves so identify with it or uphold those type of values. this is especially more prevalent with those attracted to monotheistic religions.

The one thing that most theists I have ever met or read their texts have in common is a tendency to lack empathy for other humans.

Then you're probably not mixing with the right theists. Many theists are very empathetic people. Many theists donate to the needy or actually volunteer to help out. There are theists who care deeply about other people. Some choose to devote their lives to other people. In fact, that's what a lot of priests, pastors and other church leaders do.


Instead, theists tend to treat other people as if they don't exist.
It has to be either the theist's way - or the highway.

If they're right, of course, then their way is the good way.

Then you're probably not mixing with the right theists. Many theists are very empathetic people. Many theists donate to the needy or actually volunteer to help out. There are theists who care deeply about other people. Some choose to devote their lives to other people. In fact, that's what a lot of priests, pastors and other church leaders do.

That doesn't necessarily have anything to do with empathy. It could be simply things they do to make themselves feel good and capitalizing on the needs of others.



If they're right, of course, then their way is the good way.

If.
The fact is that we do not know whether their way is the right way - and they do not care about that.
This is how they lack empathy.

i would say a lot of religionists are very enamored with the concept of a god or it's power. some religionists view god as an authority who cares for people and that is their motivation but from personal experience, the majority of them are more into the power aspect of what a god represents and they view being in the right 'club' to mean they have a right to some authority or to dictate what god thinks or says to others.

That doesn't necessarily have anything to do with empathy.

If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, then it's always possible that it might be a duck. Consider.


It could be simply things they do to make themselves feel good and capitalizing on the needs of others.

Yes, and you'll agree that the same can be said of any atheist who does a good deed, too.


If.
The fact is that we do not know whether their way is the right way - and they do not care about that.

What?

A lot of theists care very much that non-believers should be led to the right view. They can have very real concerns for the welfare of your soul.

I find it strange that the most religious politicians in the US are the Republicans. They claim they follow Jesus, who said to give away your possessions to help the poor and to render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, yet they don't like the notion of government welfare, a US version of a National Health Service or, in some cases (ie the most religious lot, the Tea Partyers) taxes at all.

The charity of Jesus and his helping of the poor and ill and general down trodden are held up as virtues we should all emulate but when someone says "How about a national health service so we can help 40+ million people who can't get insurance?" suddenly it is "Down with taxes! Get your hands off my stuff!".

Europe, Japan, Australia and New Zealand are all vastly more atheistic/secular (and held up as immoral and godless by some religious nuts) but we all have national health systems.

I'm not saying all theists are like that but it seems the most vocal theists in US politics are massive hypocrites when it comes to helping others. Hardcore Republicans like to think of themselves as godly and as reclaiming America for Jesus but if Jesus came back they'd denounce him as a communist and a socialist without a second thought.

Hardcore Republicans like to think of themselves as godly and as reclaiming America for Jesus but if Jesus came back they'd denounce him as a communist and a socialist without a second thought.

they identify with the warmongering, power and absolute authority of the old testament god but it won't be conveyed in those exact terms. there are numerous texts that show this god as claiming to be the best and boastful as well as condoning the heirarchy of the haves and have nots, these are called god's 'blessings' as he sees fit. jesus is as the lesser kid who is doling out charity or chump change to the unfortunates or the famous 'your life may be shitty here but you will be rewarded in heaven, so just lick your wounds'. there is so much about jesus in the new testament that is so contrary to the god of the old testament that it's very suspicious to even equate the two as being related. it's almost as if the powers that be knew this revolutionary was going to have a real impact with his wisdom so found a way to tie the two together in the bible as if jesus of the new testament approved of the old one.

as for the topic, it can go either way. there are those who are attracted to the concept of god because of a power trip and those who view the concept of god for the opposite reason which is to appeal to social or societal conscience and responsiblity toward whole of humanity.

So, ask a Christian how they view their God...and if you get a real honest answer, you have a key to understanding that person...


Alphanumeric:
I find it strange that the most religious politicians in the US are the Republicans. They claim they follow Jesus, who said to give away your possessions to help the poor and to render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, yet they don't like the notion of government welfare, a US version of a National Health Service or, in some cases (ie the most religious lot, the Tea Partyers) taxes at all.

According to the wiki about prosperity theology: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology)


Physical and spiritual realities are both seen as one united reality that cannot be separated.[17] Prosperity theology teaches that all Bible-believing Christians are entitled to physical health and economic prosperity

So, if you are poor and sick, you're just not a good Christian. So I guess you deserve what you get? And further, taxes contravene God's will, I mean, if God didn't want you to have the money, why, you would not have earned it? How dare the government tax what God wanted you to have to heal those godless sick people!

(Yes, I know I'm not being nice, but I get medicine from a county program partly funded by the feds...and this may directly affect me.)

As an atheist, I find that I don't really care.

But since you ask, perhaps it's because by the time a theist reaches a level where they feel they've got something to write down, they've well and truly got their heads locked up their derrière!

I know plenty of theist who are very nice, empathetic people but are unlikely ever to write about it or take up public speaking.

If you don't advocate any definitive stances that people should take, then you are just wasting everyone's time.


The one thing that most theists I have ever met or read their texts have in common is a tendency to lack empathy for other humans.

It's as if theists are completely unable - or unwilling - to even try to place themselves in the other person's situation.
Instead, theists tend to treat other people as if they don't exist.
It has to be either the theist's way - or the highway.


Why is this?

the 1st post is one you made in response to squirrel in the "are all discussions of god speculative nonsense" thread yesterday, regarding his religious views. and now this thread today.

would you care to explain why it is that you insist that other people act as an authority, guru, even divine, tell you exactly what to do in regards to religion or faith, and cuss them out when they won't, and then turn around in virtually the same breath and complain about the idea of theists doing that very same thing?

you are such a blatant troll.

you don't want empathy, you want sympathy. you want a guru to tell you what to do. you want someone else (another human) to save you. YOU WANT SOMEONE TO BLAME.

see signal, i am empathetic; that's how i know your game. your game...your insincere trolling...is obvious to anyone who has endeavored spiritual knowledge and experience themselves. thread after thread, day after day, year after year, theists who know better tell you repeatedly that this is something you have to do yourself. but you don't want that responsibility. you're not that sincere. i don't even think you desire knowledge of god at all. i think you're just some jaded troll who wants to stick it to people who do claim to know god.

but just in case...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NZsCYOM4j0&ob=av2e

JESUS SAVES. it's not a cult you join. it's not a doctrine you obey. it's not a lifestyle you adopt. it's not a recitation. it's not a ritual. it's not a fucking 12 step program. and it's no one's responsibility but yours. it's a personal endeavor. so if you're not willing to petition god in the name of christ, in sincerity and humility, ALL BY YOURSELF, then shut the fuck up.

THAT. IS. EMPATHY. because i know what the fuck i'm talking about. i know how it works.

The one thing that most theists I have ever met or read their texts have in common is a tendency to lack empathy for other humans.

You've had very unpleasant experiences with 'theists', apparently.

My own experience has been dramatically different. Some of the most humane and compassionate people that I've ever met have been theists. Others have been assholes.

The same thing can be said for atheists.

Empathy, compassion, or whatever we call it is more of a personal-psychological variable, I think. It doesn't seem to be all that strongly correlated to religious belief or with the lack of it.

See, this, Yazata?


you are such a blatant troll.

This is the kind of thing I am talking about when I am talking about theists lacking empathy.

What?

A lot of theists care very much that non-believers should be led to the right view. They can have very real concerns for the welfare of your soul.

By calling us "fucking idots", "trolls", "liars", "dishonest" and such?

And this is even part of their doctrine?

you don't want empathy, you want sympathy. you want a guru to tell you what to do. you want someone else (another human) to save you. YOU WANT SOMEONE TO BLAME.

see signal, i am empathetic; that's how i know your game. your game...your insincere trolling...is obvious to anyone who has endeavored spiritual knowledge and experience themselves. thread after thread, day after day, year after year, theists who know better tell you repeatedly that this is something you have to do yourself. but you don't want that responsibility. you're not that sincere. i don't even think you desire knowledge of god at all. i think you're just some jaded troll who wants to stick it to people who do claim to know god.

but just in case...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NZsCYOM4j0&ob=av2e

JESUS SAVES. it's not a cult you join. it's not a doctrine you obey. it's not a lifestyle you adopt. it's not a recitation. it's not a ritual. it's not a fucking 12 step program. and it's no one's responsibility but yours. it's a personal endeavor. so if you're not willing to petition god in the name of christ, in sincerity and humility, ALL BY YOURSELF, then shut the fuck up.

THAT. IS. EMPATHY. because i know what the fuck i'm talking about. i know how it works.

The infinite cruelty of a Christian.

the 1st post is one you made in response to squirrel in the "are all discussions of god speculative nonsense" thread yesterday, regarding his religious views. and now this thread today.

would you care to explain why it is that you insist that other people act as an authority, guru, even divine, tell you exactly what to do in regards to religion or faith, and cuss them out when they won't, and then turn around in virtually the same breath and complain about the idea of theists doing that very same thing?

you are such a blatant troll.

Why invite me to explain anything, when at the same time you dismiss me?

See, this, Yazata?



This is the kind of thing I am talking about when I am talking about theists lacking empathy.

if you don't wish to be called a troll, then stop being a troll.

Why invite me to explain anything, when at the same time you dismiss me?

oh i dare you to explain it, but i also know how evasive and dishonest you are, so i expect the status quo from you.

prove me wrong.

The infinite cruelty of a Christian.

you'll be a martyr in hell signal, and it will still be all your fault.

how is it cruel to say that unless you do what it takes to know god, you won't know god? it's not cruel; it's the truth.

the truth is, you don't want to know god, and so you don't. isn't that correct?

By calling us "fucking idots", "trolls", "liars", "dishonest" and such?

And this is even part of their doctrine?

yes it is; to be honest and to discern.

EVERYONE -


Do you see what Lori is doing?

EVERYONE -


Do you see what Lori is doing?

responding to your posts? asking you questions? answering yours? being honest?

let me guess...you want people to think this is somehow victimizing you?

you don't want empathy, you want sympathy. you want a guru to tell you what to do. you want someone else (another human) to save you. YOU WANT SOMEONE TO BLAME.Better to look to another human being for help than the invisible man in the sky. I'd have respect for Rick Perry if he said "I fucked up Texas, but let's all work together to improve it" rather than him not admitting he fucked up Texas and praying the the sky being he hears in his head.


thread after thread, day after day, year after year, theists who know better tell you repeatedly that this is something you have to do yourself. but you don't want that responsibility. And yet Alcoholics Anonymous involves people admitting they can't improve themselves without god.


i don't even think you desire knowledge of god at all. Personally I desire knowledge about the universe, including a deity if one exists. Just waiting for anyone to provide evidence it does.


JESUS SAVES.Does the bank Jesus saves with need a bailout?


it's not a cult you join.Religions are cults with lots of members.


it's not a doctrine you obey. it's not a lifestyle you adopt. it's not a recitation. it's not a ritual. it's not a fucking 12 step program. and it's no one's responsibility but yours. it's a personal endeavor.1st Peter 3:15, you should always be ready to give the reason for your belief. Or is that another bit of the bible you skip over along with shellfish, mixing fibres in your clothes and any other bits you don't like?

And there are clearly doctrines and lifestyle choices about being in a religion. If you identify yourself as being part of a particular religion then you are saying "I subscribe to their doctrines". If you don't then you aren't part of that religion.


so if you're not willing to petition god in the name of christ, in sincerity and humility, ALL BY YOURSELF, then shut the fuck up.

THAT. IS. EMPATHY. because i know what the fuck i'm talking about. i know how it works.Did the voice in your head tell you you know what empathy is?

Better to look to another human being for help than the invisible man in the sky. I'd have respect for Rick Perry if he said "I fucked up Texas, but let's all work together to improve it" rather than him not admitting he fucked up Texas and praying the the sky being he hears in his head.

yeah well, i think it's pretty clear that's not working isn't it? god isn't an invisible man in the sky. god is the creator of the universe, and of you.


And yet Alcoholics Anonymous involves people admitting they can't improve themselves without god.

and it works. but people have to take the initiative to attend meetings, just like people have to take an initiative to seek god.


Personally I desire knowledge about the universe, including a deity if one exists. Just waiting for anyone to provide evidence it does.

waiting? lol. since when has waiting enabled anyone to attain knowledge? lol...


Does the bank Jesus saves with need a bailout?

no, never.


Religions are cults with lots of members.

you're referring to religious institutions, not necessarily the teaching itself.


1st Peter 3:15, you should always be ready to give the reason for your belief. Or is that another bit of the bible you skip over along with shellfish, mixing fibres in your clothes and any other bits you don't like?

i'm ready. would you like to know the reason i believe?


And there are clearly doctrines and lifestyle choices about being in a religion. If you identify yourself as being part of a particular religion then you are saying "I subscribe to their doctrines". If you don't then you aren't part of that religion.

i'm not talking about "being in a religion". i'm talking about knowing and having a relationship with god. there's a huge difference.


Did the voice in your head tell you you know what empathy is?

no.

part of why the majority of them seem to lack real empathy is because their religion comes first before your real life situation, meaning they believe you should adhere to the ways of their religion. i don't agree that many theists are empathetic. they are empathetic in that they want you to submit to their idea of god or become like them, then they will approve of you. this is especially true with monotheistic religions as they inherently tend to reject or view other philosophies or religions as either wrong or even evil.

what usually happens is they will be polite and then treat any other views with a bit of condescending patronizing, then they will eventually tell you that their god is the only god and their religion (basically what they are inclined to) to be the only correct one. you will find that there is some competitiveness with other religions or sects because numbers means more power. their 'empathy' tends to be from the motivation or view that others are fools that need to be saved not necessarily from sin (because surpisingly, they are very lax about it:aka forgiveness) but from any other philosophy or belief system other than theirs. the ones that are not like this tend to be a true minority.

this is why, for instance, you will hardly or rarely find christians who would even consider giving any credit to other religions or philosophies at all. if you don't believe me, go to any monotheistic church and ask them what they think of, say, unitarian universalist. if they don't want to appear to be hypocrites or hateful, they will be evasive and rather condescending with some compassionate pretense but they will basically show derision, mocking and hatred for it, for even really no good reason or legitimate one. people like that are not coming from a place that is producing real empathy or understanding or even really going to listen. they are difficult to be honest with because that is not what they are about, nor is really the truth.