Do drugs give you a feeling of enlightenment?

Do drugs give you a feeling of enlightenment?
Well, are you talking about drugs, or just pot? Drugs could mean anything. I know plenty of pot smokers that don't do any other drugs.
I enjoy a toke here and there but I could give a rat's ass about any religion. I get more of a feeling of relaxation (i.e. my intention) than enlightenment.

Well, I mean mostly pot. But, I could see use of other drugs to create the impression of a mystical euphoria.

You do remember that the SW Native American tribes used peyote to help them have visions in the spirit world, don't you?


What movie....
"DID YOU SEE THE SIZE OF THAT CHICKEN???"

Right, peyote. That's my point. Is it religion or is it peyote?

Thinking gives you enlightenment as long as you understand what your thinking aboout clearly.Drugs only cloud your thought process.

Tell that to the SW Native Americans. Maybe that's why they lost their lands?

Tell that to the SW Native Americans. Maybe that's why they lost their lands?

You know, that was so stupid it moves you into the racist category.

I'm racist because the Indians were stupid enough to lose their lands? Come on. They were dumb, and even they would admit that.

Both are explorations of consciousness.

I'm racist because the Indians were stupid enough to lose their lands? Come on. They were dumb, and even they would admit that.

Well, thanks for confirming that you are racist.

1) they did not lose their lands because a very small number of them took peyote. Read any, any book on the subject. Hell, even the books that think the Natives had primitive, evil cultures. They lost land because of the diseases Europeans brought over, because of evil ideas Europeans came with and because the Europeans had guns and technology the Natives did not.
2) They aren't nor were they dumb.

Oops, I was so high I lost my lands.

History by Bannan

what about the rastafarians?

Ha! I wasn't seriously suggesting Indians lost their lands due to peyote use. That was a joke. But, the Indians were still stupid for losing their lands. That's not a joke.

Well, where does rastafarianism come from?

Well, where does rastafarianism come from?


Jamaica??

Ha! I wasn't seriously suggesting Indians lost their lands due to peyote use. That was a joke. But, the Indians were still stupid for losing their lands. That's not a joke.

And you are a racist. Also not a joke.

I'm not a racist. That's absurd. The Indians were stupid for losing their lands. That's just common sense. Oh, you can't offend the Indians now by pointing out how stupid they were to lose their lands - let's enforce this by calling people racists! Well, you're racist for calling me racists - you racist!

I'm not a racist. That's absurd. The Indians were stupid for losing their lands. That's just common sense. Oh, you can't offend the Indians now by pointing out how stupid they were to lose their lands - let's enforce this by calling people racists! Well, you're racist for calling me racists - you racist!

No, they weren't stupid.
And in fact many of the SW tribes still have land.
What land they lost they lost because Europeans killed them, took them away from their lands, transmitted diseases to them (for the most part unintentionally), did not maintain treaties, and because the Europeans had superior weapons. Unless you are gunsmith, you are really on weak footing calling the Natives stupid. Your insistance that they were less intelligent actually raises questions about your intelligence.

I'm guessing you were just being pouty at the end there, but I cannot be a racist in relation to you. I do not know your race. I think you as an individual are racist and deeply ignorant of history. Deep ignorance, if kept quiet, is a kind of racism in potential. Making insulting generalizations about racial groups of people that have no basis in fact is racist. I can see this is hard for you to face. Let me soften it. You made racist statements and then went on to defend them. In your heart you really don't want to be racist and you will probably go out and get some books on American History and find out how deeply ignorant you are.

ANYWAYS!!!!
When you say Eastern religions, do you mean Hindu and Buddist? Is it in their philosophy to do drugs?

Indians not stupid? Why was their military in the stone age? Why would you trust the Europeans?

It is the philosophy of Hindu and Buddhists to find enlightment, which is one of the big arguments in favor of drug use. They seem to go hand in hand.

What weapons are you capable of making?
If you can't make a weapon better than the Natives could can I assume you are stupid?

Anyway. You're on killfile from now on. I will not read anything written by a racist.

It is the philosophy of Hindu and Buddhists to find enlightment, which is one of the big arguments in favor of drug use. They seem to go hand in hand.

But I don't think they meant drugs to get there, did they? Isn't that cheating? I mean, you don't have to work at it then. It seems false.

That's just silly. Obviously, a people's ability to produce weapons is not dependent on any particular person's ability to produce those weapons.

Is it false? Or were these enlightment philosophers inspired by the effects of drugs? Could drugs have created these religions?

Is it false? Or were these enlightment philosophers inspired by the effects of drugs? Could drugs have created these religions?

ummm, maybe scientology...no, definitely scientology.

If you do without food/sleep long enough, you hallucinate. I think they went that route.

I thought L. Ron Hubbard created scientology? Was he on drugs at the time?

The indians weren't stupid, they just had a different way of life, one that didn't revolve around building armies and conquering other lands.

As for enlightenment and drugs, no they don't deliver enlightenment to you. They are just tools that change the way you think and perceive things, maybe that leads you to some form of enlightenment, maybe it doesn't, it depends on you and what you think enlightenment means.

To me enlightenment means understanding, some drugs can lead to a better understanding of whatever it is you're thinking about, some do nothing but cloud your thinking. You can't just lump all drugs into the same group, each has completely different effects.

Indians not stupid? Why would you trust the white man after he screwed you so many times? Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

So enlightment is understanding? What kind of understanding? The wisdom of Solomon, or the good naturedness of pot smokers?

The understanding of your own nature.

Indians not stupid? Why would you trust the white man after he screwed you so many times?
Because the white men had armies and the indians did not? That makes them stupid how?
So enlightment is understanding?
That's how I define it, yes. How do you define enlightenment?

No. It makes them stupid trusting the white man after he screwed them. It makes them stupid for not organizing on a larger scale as soon as the Santa Maria landed.

So, enlightenment is know thyself. That seems to play more toward the pot heads than the Solomons.

No. It makes them stupid trusting the white man after he screwed them. It makes them stupid for not organizing on a larger scale as soon as the Santa Maria landed.
So basically, you think they're stupid because they didn't drop everything their culture stood for to fight a war against a nation of people who'd been fighting wars for hundreds of years?

The Indians' culture stood for separatism? What about the Indian empires, like the Aztecs and Incas? The Indians hadn't been fighting wars for hundreds of years, as well? Huh? How do you think these Indian empires were created?

There was no one group called the indians. There were many, many tribes. Some fought each other, some were friends. None recognized the unyielding authority of a leader in the European model. A tribal elder was not a king who's subjects had to obey.

And that's why they lost their land.

JJ, you're an idiot, on any board.

Calling me an idiot doesn't help your cause much - does it?

Why do so many pot smokers like Eastern religions?

I don't see that there is any relationship between the two (pot smokers and Eastern religion) to start with nor pot smokers and any religion.

That's a good point. Is there a relationship?

It is the philosophy of Hindu and Buddhists to find enlightment, which is one of the big arguments in favor of drug use. They seem to go hand in hand.
Gautama Buddha actually forbade monks from using drugs or alcohol...Krishna never spoke of using drugs to gain enlightenment, only other methods like yoga, meditation, devotion, knowledge, etc....and spoke out against drinking and intoxicants...

Indians not stupid? Why would you trust the white man after he screwed you so many times? Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
You're confusing Native American Indians with India-Indians....

I'm talking about native american indians - or more precisely, the native american indians who are all now dead who lost their lands. You think they were stupid too for losing their lands?

I'm talking about native american indians - or more precisely, the native american indians who are all now dead who lost their lands. You think they were stupid too for losing their lands?

Well I don't really think they were stupid, just too trusting and helpless...also didn't their prophecies tell them the white man was coming? Well some fought back others just converted into Christianity.....

Isn't being too trusting stupid? Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

I'm talking about native american indians - or more precisely, the native american indians who are all now dead who lost their lands. You think they were stupid too for losing their lands?

That was not what the thread was about, that you started.

Do drugs give you a feeling of enlightenment?
Why do so many pot smokers like Eastern religions?

That's true. But one poster got so upset about me calling native Indians stupid for losing their lands, the poster called me a racist and then fled. Not a fair fight to flee after making such a charge.

Killing native Americans was even more stupid.

That's true, too!

Originally posted by Grantywanty

Oops, I was so high I lost my lands.

History by Bannan

HAHAH! That's great!

Calling me an idiot doesn't help your cause much - does it?
It's a fact nonetheless.

sitting in a drum circle with the tao te ching in one hand and a joint in the other is bliss.


peace.

In the USA why are the folks in red states also the most obese, nicotine addicted and lowest educated and the most into Christian fundamentalism?

The connection between nicotine, eating disorders, low education and Jesus followers is?

The connection between nicotine, eating disorders, low education and Jesus followers is?

the government?

peace.

Well it's not a 1:1 correlation, although my parents are both tobacco smoking conservatives that believe in some denomination of Christianity. However, they are intelligent people with decent eating habits. Definitely not overweight. So incorporate that into your pseudo-study if you will. Actually, Minnesota was a "blue state" in 2004.

Well it's not a 1:1 correlation .

Wow, imagine that. ;)

empyforce has it right. something to do with 'peace' as in what's cooking in the peace pipe.

TV remote, all-you-can-eat ribs, peace pipe ....utopia for the Jesus freaks.

Buddhism is pretty relaxed, the rules are pretty reasonable and ones that decent people usually try to live by anyway, and it's a little trendy?

That they smoke pot isn't in itself suggestive that a person will like Eastern religions. I've known and met many idiots who like to smoke pot - they'd probably say something about turbans if you mentioned Buddhism to them.

A passing interest and some research is open mindedness. Enjoying the experience and feeling that Buddhism is a sound way of life is fair enough. I'd say that a lot of these people don't let it rule their lives and won't follow it by the book, so to speak. Buddhism is a nice, friendly religion and it all seems lovely and relaxed - maybe something that people are trying to find when they smoke pot.

My knowledge of Buddhism is a little short, but that's the impression I get from knowing different people.

Then there's the loved up, tie-dye modern day hippy crew, the shamans, gods, guru's and whatever else there is to be had in Goa/India in general.

[QUOTE=oreodont;1476405]In the USA why are the folks in red states also the most obese, nicotine addicted and lowest educated and the most into Christian fundamentalism?
QUOTE]

there the most?

pot smoking and who?

Do drugs give you a feeling of enlightenment?
Try some and find out.

there was a study relating womens breast cancer with High society women... its all crap just like the proposed thread.

come on! :D


Regards
Rick

It' the other way around.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Feeling Bias May Hike Blacks’ Breast Cancer Risk

Women who reported more racial wrongs likelier to get disease, study says:

July 5, 2007
NEW YORK - Black women who feel they’ve been victims of racial discrimination are more likely than their peers to develop breast cancer, a large study suggests.

The study, which followed 59,000 African-American women for six years, found that those who reported more incidents of racial discrimination had a higher risk of breast cancer.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19617921/

What movie....
"DID YOU SEE THE SIZE OF THAT CHICKEN???"

Haha, Young Guns. Funny scene, you Mexican greaser!

I think pot/drug users tend to look towards Eastern religions because they're more carefree. Most other religions are authoritarian telling people what to do, and we all know how drug-users are looked down on by society. Just live your life, take the middle road, can't get any better than that.

- N

Eastern Religions such as Buddhism? I think when you are a pot smoker you are all about 'peace'... you know anti-war, loving everyone, living in harmony, do unto others, karma, etc... same fundamentals of religions such as Buddhism.

Well actually those are the same fundamentals of most religions, I think Buddhism is just a much more 'peaceful' religion that say... Christianity. I dunno... I'm stoned:D

Agree with the weird nickname above; Pot smokers are all about peace, so are Eastern Religions, and so are Rastafari; if this makes no sense, it is because I ate a "special" cookie a few hours ago.

Well Rastafarians are basically just Christians that believe Christ has already came back a second time in the body of Haile Selassie.... they just smoke a whole lotta pot... for spritual reason obviously:D

Well Rastafarians are basically just Christians that believe Christ has already came back a second time in the body of Haile Selassie.... they just smoke a whole lotta pot... for spritual reason obviously:D

and also because the bible quotes a few times about a plant. that they take into account as being weed and smoking it. they hold those bible words to back the weed smoking part of the religion.

a few of my friends are rastas, good times.


peace.

Quite simply, the strongest factor is a coincidence of circumstances. Part of it can be things like the incense, but the music is affecting in a different way than Western music. At one point, Chinese music theory held the octave to contain five notes. This produces very interesting results absent from the dominant traditions in Western music. In India, I believe, they have notes we can't even explain in Western musical terminology.

What happens is that the period of someone's pot use will intersect with an occasion of Eastern stimulation. Much as the altered perception is fascinated by the sound of Eastern music, it also receives philosophical and cultural generalities with hope. The thing is that the way the kind green makes you feel, and the nature of the introspection it triggers, makes Eastern ideas--partially for their perspective, partially for their form, which might be vastly different from a Western philosophy that asserts the same basic notion--seem much different than Western ideas. They feel at once nobler in goal, more pure in perspective, and just downright friendly. There is something smooth and inviting about the ideas, where many people find Western philosophy sharply cut and worryingly barbed.

Inevitably, it seems, the stoner will start to look more deeply into these ideas. In most cases, it leads to a generally superficial affinity. In others, there is definitely a transformation of perspective with the stoner.

And then, it turns out, one finds their fascination echoed in other stoners. At various stages of gestation and emergence, there is still a common thread of cultural alternatives connecting stoners. Dynamically, this will lead to some strengthening of understanding, but tends to put greater flesh on a subcultural skeleton that is unique and evolving. At some point, they will make something of whatever information they have. For some it means elephant tapestries and ... oh, hell, what's that fracking incense called? Even among vastly diverse individuals, there is kind of familiarity akin to what comes from being among "one's own kind". (I get jumpy if circumstance brings me within a Christian church, for instance. I don't mind the pomp and ceremony, but I feel much safer among people who don't actually believe in it. Thus, the less Christian an event, such as a wedding, the less jumpy I feel. Of course, then there's usually friends and family, or, worse yet, family of friends to deal with. That makes me even more nervous than a roomful of Christians. Unless, of course, the Christians are Pentecostal snake-handlers, or crazy enough to be polygamists, or something. But I digress ....)

It's the same with indigenous American cultures. ("The other Indians; our Indians--the ones without dots ...." Really, that's just a little joke about Americans, the modern ones, that is.) For some reason, largely peyote, I would think, indigenous tribal culture is popular among stoners. I can't say how superficial this is. I don't pay enough attention when I'm around it. Nonetheless, the connection is cultural alternatives.

Oh, shite. I forgot about the Beatles. There you go, then. Not sure what else I can come up with without smoke and mirrors.

With without. With without. With without.

Really, can I get away with that? It's not like "that that", is it? Or is it?

Anyway, smoke is no problem. Now, there must be a mirror in here ....

:m:

From a stoner herself.

... oh, hell, what's that fracking incense called?


Nag Champa?



Well I was thinking about his last night... not the incense but the initial question of the thread. I think that 'stoners' having an affinitiy with 'Eastern' type religions may have something to do with the hippie movement of the 60's. Big time stoners who were all about free love and anti- what is the word I am searching for??? Anti-Conformist? These were kids that were raised in the 40's and 50's no doubt with a pretty formal Christian upbringing, as that was the norm back then. Anyhoo... after the hippie explosion, they started doing all the glorious dope they had and started searching for alternative philosophies, religions, way of life, etc. since apparently the way the were brought up wasn't working for the them or the nation as they saw it. They hated the war, the ideology and hypocrisy of Christianity thus venturing off to find alternative meanings of their existance, leading them smack dab to Buddhism, Taoism, Confusionism, Hinduism, you name it. And I can see what draws people to those religions, there isn't that "I am better than you or holier than thou' type of attitude. Okay I'm getting off the subject.

Peace

Oh yeah John J. Bannan,

Tiassa's a dude

Sorry. From the stoner himself, then.

There were actually (and still are) quite a few Christian hippies:

http://www.hydeparkrecords.net/the_truth/front_cover_s.jpg

Nice:)

Tell that to the SW Native Americans. Maybe that's why they lost their lands?Peyote use among native Americans was more common in what is now Mexico than what is now the United States.

The reason the Indians were overrun is that the Europeans had a head start on civilization and all the technology that comes with it. Most of North America was still in the Mesolithic Era, hunter-gatherers. Agriculture had only recently been invented and it was hampered by the lack of easily domesticated animals. It's pretty hard to start right in with the bison as your only native type of cattle. The largest domesticated animal in North America was the turkey. The Aztecs and Incas had invented civilization but it hadn't quite spread across the Rio Grande yet.

All of this is just an accident of history. Homo sapiens arrived in Asia Minor in 70,000BCE, and it took them 60,000 years to invent the first civilization in Mesopotamia. H. sapiens didn't arrive in the New World until about 15,000BCE, with only things they could carry on a long journey, separated from their community, undoubtedly having lost ground both culturally and technologically. Yet it only took them 13,000 years to invent civilization in Mexico and Peru. Not too bad. Still, our civilization had an 8,000 year head start on theirs so when the two came in contact there was no contest. The Europeans' Iron Age weapons and organization defeated the Aztecs' and Incas' Bronze Age weapons and organization as easily as they defeated the Stone Age weapons and organization of the Sioux and Apache.

This is no cause for anyone to feel superior, it was just an accident of history. Unless you're Chinese, Indian, Semitic or Cushitic (basically Ethiopian or Coptic), your people did not invent civilization. You're just the descendant of conquered and assimilated barbarians, no different from the North American Indians. So settle down, Beavis.Well, where does rastafarianism come from?Am I the only person here who knows how to use Wikipedia? Ras Tafari was one of Emperor Haile Selassie's many titles. Another one--that and the fact that he was the king of the only independent African nation in the 1930s--cause some Jamaicans still in the Colonial Era to believe that he was the new prophet. Their other prophet is Marcus Garvey. It is an afrocentric faith that has won the hearts of black people all over the world, helped by its ritual use of ganja and its identification with Jamaica's other major cultural export, reggae music. I have never been able to engage a Rastafarian in conversation about his faith, but that illustrates my own opinion that it is a religion more of this world than the supernatural. Rastafarians seem to genuinely care more about peace and brotherhood on earth--with no animosity toward white people--than about scripture and the hereafter.

Despite its roots in the bible, Rastafarianism is more like your definition of an "eastern" religion. It seems to have nothing of Abraham's vengeful, intolerant, violent deity or the racism and bellicosity that characterizes the three main branches of Abrahamism. The fact that Rastafarians consider marijuana to be a staple of every household reinforces your hypothesis.

BTW, what exactly is an "eastern" religion? Judaism, Christianity and Islam all arose in Asia. Protestantism, which the Pope distinguishes from "true" Christianity, is European. Unless you count that and the Mormons, yet another offshoot of Abrahamism, Rastafarianism is the only modern religion to come out of "the West."I thought L. Ron Hubbard created scientology? Was he on drugs at the time?Oh crap, I forgot about that one. L. Ron Hubbard was a novelist who created the universe of Thetans and all that far-fetched stuff as a science fiction story. Hubbard also invented a self-help system called "Dianetics." At some point he got the brilliant idea that both he and his system could be much more successful (and much more lucrative) if it could qualify for non-profit status. (For American tax purposes in case any foreign folks are following this.) The best kind of non-profit organization is a church, they get the benefit of the Freedom of Religion thingie in the Constitution and are held to lower standards than the Sierra Club or Alcoholics Anonymous.

Let's see. How to start a religion? How to start a religion? Bingo! He already had one! The science fiction stuff he wrote would make a perfect scenario for the supernatural component of a religion. So he joined his sci fi story to his Dianetics system, named it Scientology, and a new religion was born.

I am not kidding. Our income tax laws are that easy to abuse.

wasnt jesus a hippy anyway?

peace.

wasnt jesus a hippy anyway?

peace.

Easter morning:

"Hey dude, that was some trip. Got any more of those crunchy brownis left from the Last supper? Anyone seen my sandles?"

Wasn't Jesus a hippie anyway?Jesus was a Capricorn, he ate organic foods.
He believed in love and peace, and never wore no shoes.
Long hair, beard and sandals, and a freaky bunch of friends.
Reckon if he came back, they'd just nail him up again.

-- Kris Kristofferson, "Jesus Was a Capricorn," 1971

I'm not a racist. That's absurd. The Indians were stupid for losing their lands. That's just common sense. Oh, you can't offend the Indians now by pointing out how stupid they were to lose their lands - let's enforce this by calling people racists! Well, you're racist for calling me racists - you racist!

The Native Americans lost their lands to many people but the worst was the American Government for signing treaties with them which the American government never held up to, only lying to the Native Americans because they had no EDUCATION to understand what they were doing. They were conned actually then genocide happened.

The Native Americans lost their lands to many people but the worst was the American Government for signing treaties with them which the American government never held up to, only lying to the Native Americans because they had no EDUCATION to understand what they were doing. They were conned actually then genocide happened.

The native americans way of life was fundamentally not as convinent as the european ways on almost every level. They didn't have raw economic, military, or industrial capacity. They had a spiritual way of life that still involved vengence, sacrifices and torture, which even a liberal could agree is wrong. They could not function as a sovereign body because they were too busy competing amongst themselves half the time. Europeans definetly don't have clean hands in this issue, but the native americans simply didn't have their shit together!

Sorry, I know i'm a little off topic, but it bugs me to hear hyper-liberal rants about how the native americans were peaceful people, were one with the land, where the rivers flowed with chocolate and gumdrops grew on trees in fields of flowers before the evil europeans came over. The simple fact of the matter is the native american way of life was no contest to a european peoples who had the combined knowledge and experience of millenia of contact with peoples of other continents and the wildly diverse nations on them. In America, nobody's hands were ever totally clean. Nobody was pure evil or pure good.

Nobody on this thread so far as I can tell has earned the title of racist for placing at least some of the blame of the native american's loss of land on the native americans themselves.

Easter morning:

"Hey dude, that was some trip. Got any more of those crunchy brownis left from the Last supper? Anyone seen my sandles?"


hahahahaha :)

i'm pretty :m: and all my friends just looked at me all awkward cause i started laughing out loud.

Nag Champa?

Yeah, actually ... I think that's the one. But ... wait. Who had the "Ganesh cones"? Crap, I see there's only a few hundred brands out there. But paint me pink and call me a Cheney, I actually managed to forget about the classic Nag.

Must be the smoke.

:m:

And you are a racist. Also not a joke.

lol - since when are indians a race? i thought that you so called 'anti-racists' persist that there is no such thing as race among humans?

lol - since when are indians a race? i thought that you so called 'anti-racists' persist that there is no such thing as race among humans?

I assume you are correct about what you thought.

Me, I think the word racist describes certain people rather well.

[QUOTE=weed_eater_guy;1480543]The native americans way of life was fundamentally not as convinent as the european ways on almost every level. They didn't have raw economic, military, or industrial capacity. They had a spiritual way of life that still involved vengence, sacrifices and torture, which even a liberal could agree is wrong. They could not function as a sovereign body because they were too busy competing amongst themselves half the time. Europeans definetly don't have clean hands in this issue, but the native americans simply didn't have their shit together!


Then why not just reeducate the Native Americans to their way of thinking to have them combine their resources together in making both reliant on each other. By trying to show that they wanted to REALLY help by education it would have been a lot different today.



Sorry, I know i'm a little off topic, but it bugs me to hear hyper-liberal rants about how the native americans were peaceful people, were one with the land, where the rivers flowed with chocolate and gumdrops grew on trees in fields of flowers before the evil europeans came over. The simple fact of the matter is the native american way of life was no contest to a european peoples who had the combined knowledge and experience of millenia of contact with peoples of other continents and the wildly diverse nations on them. In America, nobody's hands were ever totally clean. Nobody was pure evil or pure good.



But the way the English treated the Native Americans with lies, dishonour and disrespect, that shows us who were the real assholes. The Native Americans only had bows and arrows to use against rifles and cannons , yep that's a real fair fight there.





Nobody on this thread so far as I can tell has earned the title of racist for placing at least some of the blame of the native american's loss of land on the native americans themselves.



If the English didn't come here the Native Americans would still be in charge of this land. True they may not have been as sadistic and evil as the English made this land but at least it would still be in their hands....perhapse. [quote]

Nobody on this thread so far as I can tell has earned the title of racist for placing at least some of the blame of the native american's loss of land on the native americans themselves.


One person earned the title for saying the native americans were stupid. Meaning that whites were smarter. This is an intellectual error, assuming that the ability and interest in creating certain cultural artifacts rather than others is a good way to gauge intelligence. Since this error was being used to make a negative judgement about members of another ethnic group (or ethnic groups) it's racism.

The judgement was about an essential quality of that group. It was not talking about historical actions or cultural tendencies. If you say African Americans are more violent, you are talking about essential qualities of a specific group of humans. This is racism. And so were the comments made by this speaker.

hey! I'm a pot smoking buddhist

I just deleted a rambling paragraph for something simpler *your welcome*

Smoking pot is meditation. You become more aware of your thoughts under the influence. Therefor meditation becomes the common link between the two.

Free thinking
philosophic thoughts

those two concepts don't easily fall under Orthodox Judaism, but for Buddhism I'd say they are.

(for hallucinogenics too)

Smoking pot is not meditation. Meditating is like lifiting weights for the mind. If you meditate you will develop above average abilities of concentration/attention/awareness. Meditation can lead to enlightenment. There is not a single person that ever became enlightened by smoking pot. I'm not anti-pot, it's just not meditation.

Take a few bong hits, put on some good tunes, sit back, and let go of your thoughts. Smoking dope may not be meditation in and of itself, but it is conducive to various forms of meditation.

And it's true that the simple act of smoking pot does not bring enlightenment. See the second sentence of the preceding paragraph.

Take a few bong hits, put on some good tunes, sit back, and let go of your thoughts.
Let go of your thoughts...is that possible after a few bong hits?

Let go of your thoughts...is that possible after a few bong hits?

is naturally possible, as a matter of fact, it helps you reach that state of mind easier; it is of enormous help for that purpose.

Let me give you an example:
About two weeks ago, I was smoking a spliff at my house, alone. As a natural reaction to THC, my heart beat started getting faster; some people see this as a bad thing, and they experience neurosis or paranoia. But I don´t, off course I knew it was likely that my heart beat was going to fasten its pace, no need to worry. So I started concentrating in my heart beat, imagining that it was the same heart beat of the Earth; not only that, but I stablished the pace in my head on which I wanted my heart to beat. I realized my heart beat was back to normal in less than a minute, I was able to manipulate the pace of my heart, with my imagination. Curious huh?
After I was all relaxed from stablishing a slow-paced heart beat consciously, I managed to meditate for quite a while; I seriously love to meditate in that state of mind.

I guess the question remains, that if smoking pot is the short cut to eastern meditative success, why it appears to only have taken off in a big way with westerners ....

I guess the question remains, that if smoking pot is the short cut to eastern meditative success, why it appears to only have taken off in a big way with westerners ....


This seems like a rash statement. Other People, who have studied the subject, disagee.
http://library.thinkquest.org/C0115926/drugs/cannabis.htm
Excerpt
.......From China the hemp was brought to India, where its psychotropic characteristics became an inseparable part of the culture of the country. Nowadays about 200 million people in India use cannabis. As the legend goes one day Sheeva (an Indian god) was resting under the shadow of the hemp and he tasted its leafs from curiosity. He liked it and from that moment on the hemp became his favorite food. From ancient times until today the leafs of the hemp are used for the making of a beverage called “bhang”, which is served in India, as tradition goes, to all the guests in the house. In many parts of the country people say that “a feast is no feast, when there is no “bhang” on the table”. Except leafs the “bhang” also contains milk, sugar and a wide variety of spices – from pepper to roses’ buds. In India the cannabis served the role, which the alcohol had in other societies. But some of the religious movements thought of it even more highly. The worshipers of the goddess Kali (the celestial wife of Sheeva) used it in their sexual rituals to achieve complete spiritual and carnal merging with the goddess......

This seems like a rash statement. Other People, who have studied the subject, disagee.
http://library.thinkquest.org/C0115926/drugs/cannabis.htm
Excerpt
.......From China the hemp was brought to India, where its psychotropic characteristics became an inseparable part of the culture of the country. Nowadays about 200 million people in India use cannabis. As the legend goes one day Sheeva (an Indian god) was resting under the shadow of the hemp and he tasted its leafs from curiosity. He liked it and from that moment on the hemp became his favorite food. From ancient times until today the leafs of the hemp are used for the making of a beverage called “bhang”, which is served in India, as tradition goes, to all the guests in the house. In many parts of the country people say that “a feast is no feast, when there is no “bhang” on the table”. Except leafs the “bhang” also contains milk, sugar and a wide variety of spices – from pepper to roses’ buds. In India the cannabis served the role, which the alcohol had in other societies. But some of the religious movements thought of it even more highly. The worshipers of the goddess Kali (the celestial wife of Sheeva) used it in their sexual rituals to achieve complete spiritual and carnal merging with the goddess......

yes

BG 2.61: One who restrains his senses, keeping them under full control, and fixes his consciousness upon Me, is known as a man of steady intelligence.

not much mention of such meditation in the link you provided

I guess the question remains, that if smoking pot is the short cut to eastern meditative success, why it appears to only have taken off in a big way with westerners ....

Do you mean.....
Smoking pot is popular in many countries, particularly in Asia where the practise originated and is still hugely practised. Only in the west is it used seriously as an aid to meditation.

Do you mean.....
Smoking pot is popular in many countries, particularly in Asia where the practise originated and is still hugely practised. Only in the west is it used seriously as an aid to meditation.

certainly

any big guru who has come out of india to advocate pot use as the short cut to meditative success did so because they had a western audience

certainly

any big guru who has come out of india to advocate pot use as the short cut to meditative success did so because they had a western audience

Which gurus are you thinking of? Which ones advocate pot use?

Why was their military in the stone age?
Because they didn't have the resources or knowledge via trade to develop bronze smelting, iron smelting, or gunpowder. Same reason many subsaharan and east island cultures never got beyond a copper age. Limited resources, and limited trade.

Why would you trust the Europeans?
Optimism, perhaps?

it's interesting. Ive been in cultures where weed is natural and looked at as, in regards too its taboo-ity, equally to tobaco or alcohol. So naturally they smoke it just as much as the two examples, and it becomes a routine drug.

But treated as special and taken with meditative purposes in mind is different in many ways.

Surely every experience is subjective, but maybe some western potsmokers like east religion because like weed, both are not mainstream western ideals. Sort of rebellion-reasoning.

grover, I would call almost anything meditation really. Or at least any moment can be an opportunity to meditate. And weed is just a very potent opportunity. Potent because it alters chemicals in your brain quite substantially, leading to an altered reality, and an easier state-of-mind to cross your legs in.

what say ye?

it's interesting. Ive been in cultures where weed is natural and looked at as, in regards too its taboo-ity, equally to tobaco or alcohol. So naturally they smoke it just as much as the two examples, and it becomes a routine drug.

But treated as special and taken with meditative purposes in mind is different in many ways.

Surely every experience is subjective, but maybe some western potsmokers like east religion because like weed, both are not mainstream western ideals. Sort of rebellion-reasoning.

grover, I would call almost anything meditation really. Or at least any moment can be an opportunity to meditate. And weed is just a very potent opportunity. Potent because it alters chemicals in your brain quite substantially, leading to an altered reality, and an easier state-of-mind to cross your legs in.

what say ye?

agreed!

after all, weed grows naturally in India... paradise glimpse...

Some of my classmates were so much into the weeds that they met their maker prematurely...what a way yo go.....But no revelations or any profund knowledge can out of them when they were on...sounds like rats on a maze....

So settle down, Beavis.Am I the only person here who knows how to use Wikipedia? .

I hope so. Wiki waky is a dicey resource.
:m:

I'd have to agree that it's the 'counter culture' aspect that eastern ("Oriental" as opposed to "occidental") religions have in the west.

Why do republicans have a greater tendency to abuse cocaine than democrats?

They just get caught more often......

:m: They just get caught more often......

Nah, it's just that they* can afford it. :eek: <- (little guy hopped up on coke)

*Ya know, 'they.';)

Someone gave me a good explanation a few years ago, he said that the brain starts firing neurons in random directions hitting unused parts. There hasn't been a big difference between smokers and non-smokers health wise over a long period one study has shown. Athletes like Ben Johnson and Damon Stoudamire have tried it in the past. That's because of the increase in heart rate which enables a temporary but effective performance in physical activities. Sources have shown that it's not addictive. Like every herbal medicine it should not be taken in large amounts. The health risk over a long term is pretty small compared to cigarettes and even alcohol. :m:

Anything you take in large amount is bad for you....even Salt.

Someone gave me a good explanation a few years ago, he said that the brain starts firing neurons in random directions hitting unused parts.

I have to say that this statement needs revision :p
I agree with everything else you said back there.

The fact is, there are THC (Tetrahydrocannabinol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/THC)) receivers alll over our nervous system, particularly in our brains.
The function of these THC receivers is unknown, except for their reaction when in contact with the external molecule of THC. So the only known function of these THC receptors is to cause the reactions in our body when the THC molecule (only found in Cannabis) come in contact with our blood stream.
There are many reactions in our body when these receptors come in contact with the THC molecules; a lot of these reactions are medicinal and relaxing effects. None of these reactions have been proven harmful, off course, there have been no deaths caused by the contact with big ammounts of THC.

These receptor go back to flyes in evolution, meaning all mammal inherently have them (in other words, all mammals can get "High" :m: ).

I want to add the following found in the same link above:

"A number of studies indicate that THC may provide medical benefits for cancer and AIDS patients by increasing appetite and decreasing nausea. It has been shown to assist some glaucoma patients by reducing pressure within the eye, and is used in the form of cannabis by a number of multiple sclerosis patients to relieve the spasms associated with their condition. Recently, cannabis has even been prescribed to adults and teens who are diagnosed with ADD & ADHD due to the drug's relaxing and calming effects."

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<vv_>

Here's another one. This was supposed to be the sun, but it turned out to be more like a porcupine, still the best one yet:

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Do drugs give you a feeling of enlightenment?

What are your data to support the contention that there is a positive correlation between Eastern religions and "pot smoking?"

I'm wondering if your suggestion that such a correlation exists isn't merely a bigoted perspective of a very limiting fundamentalist worldview. I noticed that many of the threads you begin are with similar such questions, questions to which you seem to have already formed a conclusion and wish only to share your bigoted and undereducated worldview.

In support of my observation, your bigoted comments against Native Americans stand as testament. You assert that the less advanced aboriginals who succumbed to mass-genocide at the hands of invading Europeans, succumbed because they were "stupid." You then make the undereducated comment that this is "common sense." This is a true statement only if "common sense" equates to the undereducated and ignorant of the common person. Had you bothered to educate yourself properly on the subject (or at least pay attention in whatever social science or anthropology class it might have slept through) you might have a more informed opinion on the social evolution of cultures and societies.

The topic of this (and other threads started by John Bannan) isn't the thread title at all: the real topic is how the fundamentalist and bigoted like to come to the "science forum" where they can display pseudo-intellectual prowess and battle the "big-bad atheist" and the freethinker.

Unlike other science forums, Sciforums has a habit of allowing the kooks, fundies, woo-woo's, and all-around-nutters to stay and camp out a while. Other science forums ban them and keep their forum on a true intellectual level. Because of this, the nutters will continue to show up here and make all sorts of unsupported contentions like "Followers of Easter religions smoke pot" or "Native Americans were stupid."

The outright ignorance and deficit level of your education should be an embarrassment. Yet is is not. Therefore, the sub-topic of your threads is, how the pseudo-intellectual isn't bothered by his lack of knowledge as he pretends to be smart.

There you go talking as though you were my father.

You're not my father.

There you go talking as though you were my father.

You're not my father.

lol

I'm just talking shit there. Don't go out and arrest the man. I'm 24 you idiots, not 10.

Wisdom_Seeker sucks dick.

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<vv_>


WTF?

The topic of this (and other threads started by John Bannan) isn't the thread title at all: the real topic is how the fundamentalist and bigoted like to come to the "science forum" where they can display pseudo-intellectual prowess and battle the "big-bad atheist" and the freethinker.


Thanks. This was a pleasure to read. Before he made his stupid statements about Native Americans I had challenged him a couple of times to make statements instead of questions. I felt like he had an agenda and it showed through in the types of questions he asked and the ones he did not ask. It isn't a problem to have an agenda, but making statements takes more responsibility for the opinions one has - instead of implying those opinions indirectly. In this thread, I believe it is this one, but it might be another one, Bannan claims to be engaging in the Socratic method. I'm not big fan of Socrates, but the Socrates was extremely smart. What we end up with is an insinuating, implying presence whose real opinions when they come out are actually worse than I suspected.

Occasionally one of his questions is good, even interesting, but in general it seems like an avoidance of taking a stand. I actually think direct is better.

Why do pot smokers like Eastern religions? They go well together

http://video.stumbleupon.com/#p=8v7pt679qw

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C:\DOS\MEXICANWAVE\o/\o/\o/\o/

WTF?

It was a really good chain of robots waving "hi" but the spacing was fucked up. Nickelodeon somehow got it right, except the top of the head should be one space back.

It was a really good chain of robots waving "hi" but the spacing was fucked up. Nickelodeon somehow got it right, except the top of the head should be one space back.

Make the zzzz white text.

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Doh!

I decided to go with the z's. I'm not trying to hide anything, except the privates.

Looks pretty well hidden to me.....

All it needs is a girlfriend. Unless it's a girl or gay.

….oooO…………..
…..(….)…Oooo…
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…..(_/…….)../…..
……….……(_/…….
… I WAS …………
………. HERE ……

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