In my life, I did wrong, as well as good.
So far, I am not as bad as a criminal who breaks the law, commit killing, robbing and other felony.

But the bible condemns that I am Sinner, and the good that i did seems have no value to neutralise my wrong, even for a few percent!

Is that Just/Fair ?

:confused:

If someone really doesn't realize that they are doing wrong, then I'm don't see God condemning them. However all sin even unintentional will affect yourself and others.


Is that Just/Fair ?

Continuing sinning while knowing that it is a sin would not give God any other choice. There is no way that he can forcebly make someone stop sinning without taking away their freewill. There is no way that he can wash someone of sin unless if they allow him to wash them. I guess this is logical but life's a real struggle :mad:

Saint :

if you can neutralize sin with good then for every 2 good things you did, you are allowed to do one sin and remain free of net sin and will have good credit. we don't need bible to learn this arithmatic. unfortunately this type of neutralization is not available. so reap whatever you sow.

Saint,

Why I am sinner ? You aren’t. To sin means to disobey God, and it isn’t possible to disobey something that doesn’t exist. If by sin you mean you have broken a moral code to which you agree then that is a different issue.

In practical terms if you do something that is clearly wrong then you have little choice but to live with the often unpleasant consequences and stressful feelings of guilt.

What religions offer and what makes them so attractive, especially Christianity, is a way to escape those feelings. By Christianity offering a promise of salvation many find that they can come to terms with their immorality. There is also an additional encouragement to seek salvation which is not just the comfort of escaping your responsibilities but the terror and threat of hell that Christianity insists will be your fate if you do not conform to their rules.

This complex arrangement of dependence on guilt feelings combined with the authoritarian and tyrannical terror threats, has allowed Christianity to maintain significant political and social control for millennia over a largely ignorant mass.

Unfortunately such a system where people can feel forgiven does not necessarily discourage them from committing further crimes since they know they can always seek forgiveness again. In this sense Christianity itself is a basically immoral system.

A moral system would be one where people are encouraged to take full responsibility for their own actions and where they must face the consequences of bad choices, knowing they have no exit.

Everneo,

if you can neutralize sin with good then for every 2 good things you did, you are allowed to do one sin and remain free of net sin and will have good credit. we don't need bible to learn this arithmetic.Of course the act of murdering just one person can never be fully repaid by say saving the lives of many others. The immoral act is done; it is out there and can never be taken back. One must live with it, or perhaps seek therapy if it is too difficult.

The artificial suppression of guilt by believing in an imaginative fictional supernatural solution is simply self-delusion and ultimately destructive within a larger social framework.

Cris,

ofcourse, the pun was not explicit in my previous post :D . btw, i ended with 'reap what you sow'. thats what i believe. no escape but God may give strength to bear the burden.

Sin isnt like a "I do agood deed, that means i can erase 1 sin i did". When you realize your a sinner, then you can acccept that you arent perfect. If you realize you arent perfect than you can accept that God is superior to us and therefore you will try listen to Gods statuets. IF you ask God to forgive you, you are forgiven, but to ask for forgivness isnt just like saying "good night", y ou need to ask forgiveness from the heart.

Originally posted by Saint
In my life, I did wrong, as well as good.
So far, I am not as bad as a criminal who breaks the law, commit killing, robbing and other felony.

But the bible condemns that I am Sinner, and the good that i did seems have no value to neutralise my wrong, even for a few percent!

Is that Just/Fair ?

:confused:

How do you know you are a sinner?
In what way does the bible condemn "you" as a sinner?
What do you think being a sinner is?

I ask these questions to get a better understanding of your concern.

Love

Jan Ardena.

Originally posted by Cris
[quote]You aren’t. To sin means to disobey God, and it isn’t possible to disobey something that doesn’t exist.

How do you know God doesn't exist?

If by sin you mean you have broken a moral code to which you agree then that is a different issue.

Ahh thats nice, one can absolve oneself of all wrong doing by simply changing ones moral code. :D

What religions offer and what makes them so attractive, especially Christianity, is a way to escape those feelings.

Institutions.......eh! :rolleyes:

This complex arrangement of dependence on guilt feelings combined with the authoritarian and tyrannical terror threats, has allowed Christianity to maintain significant political and social control for millennia over a largely ignorant mass.

Institutions are like that, and now christianity is on the wane, it's time for the rougue scientists to take over the riegns. Same mentality, different garbs/institution.

In this sense Christianity itself is a basically immoral system.

There is no immorality in the teaching of Jesus, only in people themselves.
The question is, does christianity reflect the teaching of Jesus?

A moral system would be one where people are encouraged to take full responsibility for their own actions and where they must face the consequences of bad choices, knowing they have no exit.

People do that anyway, it is natural. People look for ways out of any type of suffering, and their ways fall into whatever type of mentality they have.
Stronger people have the capacity to exploit weaker people, so they will concoct a religion based loosely on some scripture. This is not to be confused with the scripture itself.
But i'm sure you will anyway! :p

Love

Jan Ardena.

Jan,

You aren’t. To sin means to disobey God, and it isn’t possible to disobey something that doesn’t exist.

How do you know God doesn't exist?The God concept is a fantasy. Why assume such a baseless fantasy can be real?

If by sin you mean you have broken a moral code to which you agree then that is a different issue.

Ahh thats nice, one can absolve oneself of all wrong doing by simply changing ones moral code.Only if they practiced your form of cynical lifestyle. But why would someone change to a different moral code if they had found one to which they agreed? Did you simply misunderstand what I said?

Institutions are like that, and now christianity is on the wane, it's time for the rougue scientists to take over the riegns. Same mentality, different garbs/institution.Why rogue scientists? Science is knowledge that is freely available to everyone. The difference between science and religion is that science is based on reality instead of fantasies. Isn’t basing a lifestyle on reality likely to be more productive and enjoyable?

Originally posted by Cris
The God concept is a fantasy. Why assume such a baseless fantasy can be real?

Thanks for your opinion.
Could you please answer the question?

[/quote]Did you simply misunderstand what I said?[/quote]

LOL!!!
Sure, someone can superficially change their moral codes, but morals are far more integrated and imbedded within the human psyche, you seem to give credit for.
When our backs are against the wall we always go to what we know best, this is the real moral code.

Either I simply misunderstood what you said, or you misunderstand the depth of the subject of morality, and simplified it to a superficial choice we can make when we like.

Why rogue scientists? Science is knowledge that is freely available to everyone.

Yes, science is knowledge, but scientists are human.

The difference between science and religion is that science is based on reality instead of fantasies. Isn’t basing a lifestyle on reality likely to be more productive and enjoyable?

“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.”
--Albert Einstein

;)

Love

Jan Ardena.

Jan,

“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.”
--Albert EinsteinQuoting Einstein on religion has some risks since he did not hold conventional views, although we could debate I suppose what is conventional. His view of religion has been described as cosmic religion, that sense of awe that is revealed through scientific discovery.

Throughout his life he stated a disbelief in a personal god and to the end he maintained that position -

Einstein's Last Thoughts

Einstein: the life and times by Ronald W. Clark, World Pub. Co., NY, 1971, p. 622

Just as he dotted the i's and crossed the t's of his scientific beliefs during the last year or so of his life, so did he recapitulate his religious convictions. To Dr. Douglas he stated: "If I were not a Jew I would be a Quaker." And in an interview with Professor William Hermanns, he said: "I cannot accept any concept of God based on the fear of life or the fear of death or blind faith. I cannot prove to you that there is no personal God, but if I were to speak of him I would be a liar."

And what did Einstein really mean when he said was religious –

The following paragraph is the conclusion to the essay "The World as I See It," which is taken from the abridged edition of Einstein's book bearing the same title. In the abridged edition (Philosophical Library, New York, 1949), the essay appears on pp. 1-5.

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. He who knows it not and can no longer wonder, no longer feel amazement, is as good as dead, a snuffed-out candle. It was the experience of mystery--even if mixed with fear-that engendered religion. A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty, which are only accessible to our reason in their most elementary forms-it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man. I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the type of which we are conscious in ourselves. An individual who should survive his physical death is also beyond my comprehension, nor do I wish it otherwise; such notions are for the fears or absurd egoism of feeble souls. Enough for me the mystery of the eternity of life, and the inkling of the marvellous structure of reality, together with the single-hearted endeavour to comprehend a portion, be it never so tiny, of the reason that manifests itself in nature.

I don’t know if that agrees with how you see religion, I suspect not entirely, if at all. I think we agree on the foolishness of religious institutions, but disagree on the nature of religion, or perhaps on the perceptions of what people mean when they use the word.

Originally posted by Cris
I don’t know if that agrees with how you see religion, I suspect not entirely, if at all.
My understanding of religion is closer to Einsteins, than that of a fundamentalist.
We are all different, in our spiritual/mental make up. Einstein, being a scientist, could not simply accept a personal god because he could not see one, such was his nature.
But he could not deny that there could possibly be a "mind" behind the awe-full mystery. He did not easily accept that the universe "came about by chance" hence his quote, "God does not play dice."
Einstein sought God through science, and was forced by his own ethics to come to his conclusions. That is all anyone can do who is basically honest and sincere.
I think we agree on the foolishness of religious institutions, but disagree on the nature of religion, or perhaps on the perceptions of what people mean when they use the word.

You could well be correct in your thoughts.

Love

Jan Ardena.

Jan, the phrase "God does not play dice with the universe" is interpreted mostly, within the context, to mean "everything is ordered and everything follows a certain set of rules and is predictable".

Of course, now we know that his attempts to disprove Heisenberg were futile. He did waste a good many years to the task.

Jan, there is no reason to believe in a god if there's absolutely no physical evidence he exists. Meet the mighty invisible undetectable dragon in my dorm room. Or the giant purple pink polka dotted squid who sits around playing Beethoven on a magical piano, who is also mighty and invisible and undetectable in every way.

And btw, you ARE a sinner! We're all sinners! We must seek forgiveness of the Purple Potato God!

Jan,

The God concept is a fantasy. Why assume such a baseless fantasy can be real?

Thanks for your opinion.
Could you please answer the question?You mean ”How do you know God doesn't exist?”

But he does exist as a fantasy in the minds of many people. But really the question is ambiguous and cannot be answered intelligently.

As I have said elsewhere there are some 4200 religions in the world and Christianity has some 33,000 sects and cults who all define God differently.

It is because there is no factual basis for such ideas that people feel free to imagine a god however they wish and of course claim their personal ideas as the only truth.

Can you nail down a single definition of a god to which everyone could agree, and if so then we could start a search to see if such a thing does or does not exist. Until we can agree what is meant by “God” then any attempt to prove that the object of a dream doesn’t exist is more than a foolish activity.

In the mind of Einstein and from pantheism or from Spinoza, and to some extent from Deism, God is nature or the universe. Does nature have intelligence or is it simply recognition of supreme order? Clearly, to my mind, and I suspect to yours as well, the universe does exist, under such conditions I could hardly say God does not exist.

So for now my assertion that the concept of god is really only a fantasy is essentially true. That one of the myriad variations of this fantasy might map to a reality is something we cannot know until someone shows observable and testable facts.

But the question of how one knows that God does not exist is unanswerable because it is a meaningless question.

Jan,

But he could not deny that there could possibly be a "mind" behind the awe-full mystery. He did not easily accept that the universe "came about by chance" hence his quote, "God does not play dice." The quote in context was part of a discussion concerning quantum mechanics that be believed could not be true. He was proved wrong. And his reference to God like many of his references was not to a superior mind but to the order and harmony that was the universe.

The phrase is picked on frequently by those who perceive the concept of God as being a father figure or superior intellect, but that was never what Einstein meant. There was never a “mind” behind the awful mystery.

Originally posted by Jan Ardena
How do you know you are a sinner?
In what way does the bible condemn "you" as a sinner?
What do you think being a sinner is?

I ask these questions to get a better understanding of your concern.

Love

Jan Ardena.

Sin means something immoral, such as hatred, slander, lying etc.
I did that , so i am sinner.
Al most everywhere in The bible , it condemns me as sinner, pitiful, need pardon, or else i must go to hell. :(

Saint,

Sin means something immoral, such as hatred, slander, lying etc.
I did that , so i am sinner.
Al most everywhere in The bible , it condemns me as sinner, pitiful, need pardon, or else i must go to hell.So do you find it is wrong to sin because it is immoral, or because it makes you fearful of hell.

Or in other words do you think your religion encourages you not to sin, because that is the right thing to do, or becuase you will be punished in hell?

it depends on which religion.
for buddhism, it talks about cause-and-effect, do bad get bad,do good get good. Even go to hell, you'll escape one day after the due punishment.

but christianity is cruel, the reason of going to hell is disbelieving in jesus.

Originally posted by Saint
it depends on which religion.
for buddhism, it talks about cause-and-effect, do bad get bad,do good get good. Even go to hell, you'll escape one day after the due punishment.

but christianity is cruel, the reason of going to hell is disbelieving in jesus.
Hell is just the natural place you go when you die, i.e. the grave and whatever that entails. Think about it: 70 or so years of life, an eternity of death (or recycling until the earth becomes uninhabitable). Since you are a natural man, you will have to die a natural death no matter what you believe. You can't escape death. Christ does not send you to hell, He saves you from it since He has conquered death. No one else has.

Originally posted by Saint
----------
it depends on which religion. for buddhism, it talks about cause-and-effect, do bad get bad,do good get good. Even go to hell, you'll escape one day after the due punishment.

but christianity is cruel, the reason of going to hell is disbelieving in jesus.
----------
(Yes, you are right. When Saul/Paul successfully created Jesus as a deity by commissioning the Gospels to be written to reflect that, he created a big profitable business for himself. He sold amulets and coins to people with Jesus' image promising cures and everlasting life. He hawked his business all the way to Rome. Is it any wonder that he was beheaded for creating this "god" he was selling to the people of Rome? Hey, the whole Holy Roman Empire was based upon Xianity. No wonder it fell! It never ceases to amaze me that people still call themselves "Xians." I liken them to the story of the Emperor's New Clothes. If any of you aren't familiar with this story, I will be glad to relate to you the symbolism. How can so many millions of people believe a lie? Is it out of shear desperation for believing they will have everlasting life and win over death? You'd think that by NOW they would have realized that they are waiting in vain. There is no hope for these people. Even if it's a lie, they desperately cling to it. How pathetic!)

M*W, how do you know what you believe is true?

Originally posted by Jenyar
----------
M*W, how do you know what you believe is true?
----------
(Jenyar, how do you know what YOU believe is true?)

Ouch.

Well... I'm not her, but i can say this- no one can possibly know until after we die if what we believe is true. Christians can believe in their god, i can have my belief, atheists can believe in nothing.. but no one really knows. It can't be scientifically disproven or proven, so all one can do is believe in what they believe in, let other people have their beliefs, and hope that, if there's another side, they don't get in big trouble because what they believed was the wrong thing. Then again.. there could be no other side, just eternal darkness.

Since no one ever comes back from death and remembers it, we'll probably never know. What about people remembering deaths from past lives? Maybe, but i'm not going to put a ton of stock in anyone who claims they remember a past life, since memory is a fickle thing, and lying comes easily to many people.. and if there are ones that aren't lying, they'll never be believed.

Originally posted by Silivren
----------
...i can say this- no one can possibly know until after we die if what we believe is true.
----------
(A very good post, thanks! Why do you think it is only AFTER we die that we will know the truth?)
----------
Christians can believe in their god, i can have my belief, atheists can believe in nothing.. but no one really knows. It can't be scientifically disproven or proven, so all one can do is believe in what they believe in, let other people have their beliefs, and hope that, if there's another side, they don't get in big trouble because what they believed was the wrong thing.
----------
(This just seems too disjointed. If there's only one Creator, then there has to be only one truth. I think the problem was caused by man-made religions when egos got involved. They all became "holier than thou," but they're ALL wrong! There's no need for man-made religion when it all boils down to God and you, or I'd rather say, "God=You." This leaves no room for doubt.)
----------
Then again.. there could be no other side, just eternal darkness. Since no one ever comes back from death and remembers it, we'll probably never know. What about people remembering deaths from past lives? Maybe, but i'm not going to put a ton of stock in anyone who claims they remember a past life, since memory is a fickle thing, and lying comes easily to many people.. and if there are ones that aren't lying, they'll never be believed.
----------
(Well, here's the problem: In human form, we only use 4-10% of our brains, so we're not running at full capacity. In spiritual form, we have 100% of our brain faculties up and running. When that portion of our spirit returns to another Earthsuit, 90-96% of our brain shuts down for about 80 years while we atone for our mistakes in previous trips in the Earthsuit.)
----------
(I like to think of the entire human race as one body that contains the One Spirit of God. This one body is the vehicle for the Spirit of God on the face of the Earth. While we are alive, we carry the spirit. When we are no longer breathing, we are one in the spirit. That's eternity. There is no death, so we needn't ever worry about that.)

(A very good post, thanks! Why do you think it is only AFTER we die that we will know the truth?)
----
Because there are so many different ways of belief that, while there might be one certain belief that is true, every person will believe in their hearts that their way of thinking is true. Unless the creator fufills whatever we think is true after death, we won't know 'till then what truly is true.
----
(This just seems too disjointed. If there's only one Creator, then there has to be only one truth. I think the problem was caused by man-made religions when egos got involved. They all became "holier than thou," but they're ALL wrong! There's no need for man-made religion when it all boils down to God and you, or I'd rather say, "God=You." This leaves no room for doubt.)
----
See, you believe it's true, so it's true for you. But saying there isn't a possibility that someone else's religion might be true is sort of hypocritical. Someone of another religion could come up to you and say that your wrong, and their beliefs are true.. and backing yourself up by saying the exact same thing, just worded to fit what you believe in, isn't backing anything up. In a way, some of your posts take on the Holier-than-though stanpoint, though you tend to have better points them most of the christians i've seen here.. all they blow off is bible quotations that have been force fed.

All religions are man made, in some way, even the oldest ones.. I honestly think that what people believe in their hearts is true for them, and they have every right to believe that as long as they don't try to limit the rights of others.
----
(Well, here's the problem: In human form, we only use 4-10% of our brains, so we're not running at full capacity. In spiritual form, we have 100% of our brain faculties up and running. When that portion of our spirit returns to another Earthsuit, 90-96% of our brain shuts down for about 80 years while we atone for our mistakes in previous trips in the Earthsuit.)
----
Exactly, though scientists try to dispute that figure. Which is why i will never stop believing in the paranormal, or something after the death of our coporeal selves.

But there's always the small chance that maybe we've stopped using that large amount of brain due to evolution; maybe it's for smell, or hearing, or something that we have lost use for over the aeons. No matter how deeply i will ever believe in something, the thought that are spirits are nothing will always be in a dark, hidden corner of my mind, if only to remind myself that my beliefs may hold no more sway than those of others.

No morals.
No god.
www.rotten.com

Originally posted by and2000x
No morals.
No god.
www.rotten.com

you are beast!
no dignity of human.

You can only be a sinner if you buy into the ridiculous concept of "sin".

Well I guess you could buy into someone else labelling you as such, but that's pretty much the same thing.

So you are a sinner because you believe in sin or you're buying that someone else's label of you.

Originally posted by Jenyar
Think about it: 70 or so years of life, an eternity of death (or recycling until the earth becomes uninhabitable).

70 or so years of life, one death. After death, there is no time. As there is no time, it certainly can't last an eternity.

posted by Medicine*Woman
Jenyar, how do you know what YOU believe is true?
I know it because the Bible corroborates with experience. When I live according to God's will, I can see God's will in action, and it leaves little doubt that the author of the experience wasn't me, but God. Left to my own natural desires, I would never have felt any need to act or think like I do. Faith works, and works build faith.

posted by Silivren
Well... I'm not her, but i can say this- no one can possibly know until after we die if what we believe is true. Christians can believe in their god, i can have my belief, atheists can believe in nothing.. but no one really knows. It can't be scientifically disproven or proven, so all one can do is believe in what they believe in, let other people have their beliefs, and hope that, if there's another side, they don't get in big trouble because what they believed was the wrong thing. Then again.. there could be no other side, just eternal darkness.
Only a God who exists is possible to know, so the one we have knowledge about is the true God. Not stories about God, because those cannot be corroborated. Not just stories about people, because that's called history or myth. But stories about people in a living relationship with God, because that is what you will also have if you could believe in Him.

"No-one really knows" is no excuse, because God has made himself known. It would be more accurate to say you don't believe God revealed himself to his creation, which means you ignore anything that claims to be revelation.

posted by Medicine*Woman
Well, here's the problem: In human form, we only use 4-10% of our brains, so we're not running at full capacity. In spiritual form, we have 100% of our brain faculties up and running. When that portion of our spirit returns to another Earthsuit, 90-96% of our brain shuts down for about 80 years while we atone for our mistakes in previous trips in the Earthsuit.
That's a myth. You use all of your brain: Do we use only 10% of our brain? (http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/tenper.html).

You mean our potential is always greater than our abilities.
posted by wesmorris
You can only be a sinner if you buy into the ridiculous concept of "sin".
A sinner is anybody born under the consequences of sin, whether they believe or not. Since the consequences are universally visible: hatred, immorality, lawlessness, etc. - it is quite easy to recognize yourself as trapped by it. "Sin" is just a collective word for life without God. If someone tells you you live in the earth's atmosphere, it will be true even if you don't believe him.
70 or so years of life, one death. After death, there is no time. As there is no time, it certainly can't last an eternity.
Eternity is what we call it when there is no time - "time" loses any meaning. You're not just dead for a moment, you're dead for eternity.

(Only a God who exists is possible to know, so the one we have knowledge about is the true God. Not stories about God, because those cannot be corroborated. Not just stories about people, because that's called history or myth. But stories about people in a living relationship with God, because that is what you will also have if you could believe in Him.

"No-one really knows" is no excuse, because God has made himself known. It would be more accurate to say you don't believe God revealed himself to his creation, which means you ignore anything that claims to be revelation.)
----

That's what you believe in, and by all means, it might be true for you... But think for a moment. What if God wasn't who you thought he was. Say, what if god is a woman? Black? What if there's more than one god, or anything and anything is part of god? There are so many possibilities for a higher power that could be translated into the christian god, which may or may not have revealed themselves. If that means i ignore your god, so be it.

And... i choose to ignore the bible because it is a confusing, bigoted, contradicing, and hypocritical piece of work. Everything in there, at least by non-christians, must be taken with a grain of salt
----
(A sinner is anybody born under the consequences of sin, whether they believe or not. Since the consequences are universally visible: hatred, immorality, lawlessness, etc. - it is quite easy to recognize yourself as trapped by it. "Sin" is just a collective word for life without God. If someone tells you you live in the earth's atmosphere, it will be true even if you don't believe him.)
---
So, you're saying that even though i live the best life i can, try to be kind and equal to everyone... I'm still going to hell? Nice god to believe in, condemning the people who are a little teensy bit skeptical to an eternity of torture. Yeah. Uh-huh. Karma

And umm... You can definately feel the earth's atmosphere. It is there, in front of you.. You can't see it, most of the time, but you can feel it, taste it... hear the wind, smell things carried by it. Definately a very very physical thing to believe in. If someone didn't believe in the atmosphere.. i'd be suprised. Very suprised.

Now.. Something like other galaxies that we only have pictures of and i have no personal experiance? If someone didn't believe in those, it wouldn't be as implausible.

:D

you are beast!
no dignity of human

The naturalist holds humanity with more dignity than the religious, because he sees everything, not what his sheltered eyes wish to see.

This just seems too disjointed. If there's only one Creator, then there has to be only one truth.

This is the biggest distinction between the ancient way of thinking and the Judeo-Christian way of thinking, which is the plague upon modern human thought. In pagan times all concepts and perspectives of a god were true, and each path was different but equally true (thus 'Poly' theism). Even the earliest Jews approached their one god in this manner, but they were ultimately genocided by their peers.

Now people get frustrated because their religious ideas are 'more true' than the other. Infinite reality=infinite perspectives. If a Creator created this world, then all persectives are right. Call it a post-moral monotheism. If there is no creator, then all activities have no value (other than the ones we give them). This is nihilism.

Originally posted by and2000x
The naturalist holds humanity with more dignity than the religious, because he sees everything, not what his sheltered eyes wish to see.
To quote a few non-religious people here:

posted by Dr Lou Natic
we are its [the universe's] dogs which it rewards and punishes to get jobs done, and like dogs we have no idea what the jobs are, we just know if we do them we'll get a treat (ie pleasure, satisfaction etc)
Perhaps the universe isn't the one doing this, it could be a dog as well, but the bottom line is we are employees that don't have a clue what we are working on, the only thing about us that could possibly be of any significance is the task we are doing and we don't even know what that is.

posted by atheroy
we give no meaning to the world around us, such an arogant view gets on my nerves. look at how big we are, then look at how big the universe is. purpose we give to ourselves because we feel important, god is a manifestation of our feelings of importance.

we give purpose to oursleves, but we don't actually have any purpose. if we are bestowing something on ourselves it has as much relevance to the rest of the universe as me singing rubber ducky in nordic. we don't have purpose, the universe doesn't have purpose.

So we are only significant in our own eyes, and even that is just a lie we tell ourselves to feel better about being basically animals. Apparently we don't deserve dignity, we create it artificially.

Originally posted by Cris
[QUOTE]There was never a “mind” behind the awful mystery.
Of course! How could i have been so blind.
So when he said; "I want to know how God thinks. Everything else is a detail." What he was really saying was; "I want to know how nature thinks. There is nothing else. :D

Love

Jan Ardena.

/A sinner is anybody born under the consequences of sin, whether they believe or not.

Wrong. That's your presumption. I think you're sick. I reject your bullshit. Label me as you must, but I reject your label as simplistic, presumtuous, arrogant, ignorant, shallow and sheepish.

/Since the consequences are universally visible: hatred, immorality, lawlessness, etc. - it is quite easy to recognize yourself as trapped by it.

That is an incredibly shallow analysis. Man what is wrong with you? Everything has to be your way cuz that's what screepsher sez huh? Man that is flabbergasting.

/"Sin" is just a collective word for life without God.

RETARDS is just a collective word for religious people. Do you refute my label? Oh but I can't refute yours? Wow, how convenient for you to justify your arrogance. Nice.

/If someone tells you you live in the earth's atmosphere, it will be true even if you don't believe him.

Comparing a physical requirement for life to a pychosis instilled in you by your cult is stupid. I mean, literally stupid. Der. It's like "der, yeah well if you steal all my blood then I'll die and the same thing will happen if you don't accept jesus into your heart". Man that's just sickening.

DO YOU HAVE A BRAIN OR DID YOU PUT IT IN THE COLLECTION PLATE?

I suspect the latter.

not all religious people are totally retarded.. I actually have a friend who is a jehovah's witness (of all things,) and while we can't discuss religion around her, she is one of the sweetest people you could ever meet. And she never preaches...

... Though it's the retarded ones that argue their religion most vehemently. I actually had a guy sit me down and tell me that if i didn't confess my sins to jesus, i would go to hell. Uh-huh. Yeah. Bye!

Originally posted by Silivren
. Though it's the retarded ones that argue their religion most vehemently. I actually had a guy sit me down and tell me that if i didn't confess my sins to jesus, i would go to hell. Uh-huh. Yeah. Bye!
they think they get good points with their imaginary skydady when they "save"some so called sinner:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Silivren
not all religious people are totally retarded..

I agree and only put it as such to make a point.