View Full Version : Why 432 in Ancient World?


IceAgeCivilizations
12-08-06, 11:47 AM
The Hindu yugas of time are mulitples of 432,000 years, and in Norse legend, groups of 800 warriors of Valhalla entered through 540 doors, total 432,000 warriors, and the Great Pyramid's dimensions are a reduction of the Earth's dimensions by a factor of 43,200, so what is this connection in the ancient world, was it coincidence, or could they measure the Earth, and if so, how did they do it.

IceAgeCivilizations
12-08-06, 12:23 PM
When you multiply the length of the Egyptian royal cubit (20.632 inches) by 440 (cubits per base side of the Great Pyramid), and then by 4 (four base sides), and then by 43,200, you get 21,600 nautical miles (within 0.5%), the circumference length of the Earth, so how'd they do that?

Ophiolite
12-11-06, 05:53 AM
If you take my height and multiply it by the number of weeks in a year, then raise that number to the fourth power you get the equatorial diameter of the planet, in inches, to within less than 0.05%. Now just how did I do that?

leopold
12-11-06, 06:20 AM
Now just how did I do that?
you took your height and multiplied it by the number of weeks in a year, then raised that number to the fourth power and got the equatorial diameter of the planet, in inches, to within less than 0.05%.

IceAgeCivilizations
12-11-06, 06:35 AM
Unfortunatley, your little whatever does not relate at all to the length of the royal cubit, so you're out of luck, next.

IceAgeCivilizations
12-11-06, 06:39 AM
The length of the royal cubit is a reduction of the circumference of the Earth, your "method" is not, bad try.

tablariddim
12-11-06, 06:48 AM
The length of the royal cubit is a reduction of the circumference of the Earth, your "method" is not ; bad try


Grammar.

IceAgeCivilizations
12-11-06, 06:58 AM
Well I guess you really showed me.

leopold
12-11-06, 07:14 AM
When you multiply the length of the Egyptian royal cubit (20.632 inches)
The "Royal Egyptian Cubit" was decreed to be equal to the length of the forearm from the bent elbow to the tip of the extended middle finger plus the width of the palm of the hand of the Pharaoh or King ruling at that time.
http://www.ncsli.org/misc/cubit.cfm

how did you arrive at the 20.632 inches mentioned?
yes indeedy, the egyptians had a way to measure to the thousandth of an inch didn't they.

IceAgeCivilizations
12-11-06, 07:21 AM
They measured the circumference of the Earth first, then worked back to get the length of the royal cubit, that's why it's called an Earth commensurate measure, g e o m e t r y.

IceAgeCivilizations
12-11-06, 07:22 AM
Yours would be called forearmetry, ahahaha.

SoLiDUS
12-11-06, 08:15 AM
Worthless thread.

IceAgeCivilizations
12-11-06, 08:24 AM
Worthless that the ancients could accurately measure the Earth, as reflected in the dimensions of the Great Pyramid, and therewith, the length of the royal cubit?

Do you really think it has worth to say that the royal cubit is a product of forearmetry rather than geometry?

Ophiolite
12-11-06, 08:29 AM
It is self evident that the Egyptians knew the Earth was spherical; that they measured its diameter accurately; that they understood where they were located upon the sphere; that they incorporated aspects of this understanding in the dimensions of the pyramid; that Piazzi Smith was bloody brilliant; that Ice Age Civilisations has never had an original thought in his life; that I'm feeling horny.
What any of this has to do with the number 432 is beyond meaningful hope of redemption.

IceAgeCivilizations
12-11-06, 08:38 AM
Oph, the GP base perimeter length is a 43,200 reduction of the circumference of the Earth, and many ancient societies had this knowledge, as evidenced with the precession numbers, such as 432, in many ancient legends and architectures.

The Hung League of China uses these numbers, 36, 54, 72, 108, etc., and the Hindu yugas of time are multiples of 432, and the Norse legend, and the 72 conspirators against Osiris, and the 72 pillars at the ancient temple at Apadana, and the 72 at Angkor Wat, on and on.

I figured out that they did it by measuring precession, and so, the dimensions of the Earth, and then, the royal cubit, and accurate surveying and mapping in the ancient world.

Ophiolite
12-11-06, 08:43 AM
So?

IceAgeCivilizations
12-11-06, 08:48 AM
It proves that the ancients were navigating all over the globe during the Ice Age, see Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings (Hapgood), and it proves the true origin of the methodology for our current mapping and timekeeping system, other than that, I guess not much.

Ophiolite
12-11-06, 08:51 AM
The maps of the Ancient Sea Kings were based upon the massive circum-planetary voyages of the Chinese in 1421. Damn all to do with ice age civilisations. Still, if you find you can sleep easier thinking you know a secret most others do not, then good luck to you.

IceAgeCivilizations
12-11-06, 08:57 AM
Chinese voyages 1421? You obviously haven't read the book, bad try.

Ophiolite
12-11-06, 09:05 AM
I have read the book. It was a great try. And a success.

IceAgeCivilizations
12-11-06, 09:08 AM
What does Chinese navigation in 1421 have to do with the maps from Piri Reis, Oronteus Finnaeus, Ibn Zara, and Zeno?

Ophiolite
12-11-06, 09:09 AM
So you haven't read the book.

Ophiolite
12-11-06, 09:10 AM
1421

IceAgeCivilizations
12-11-06, 09:14 AM
You're trippin' "geologist."

IceAgeCivilizations
12-11-06, 11:52 AM
I'm not sure Ophi would recommend Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings because he doesn't know what it's about, great book, Euro mappers from the 14th 15th and 16th centuries said that they used many small ancient source maps to compile their maps which included regions of the world which were unknown to the Euros of that time, coast line mapped very precisely, even early in the Ice Age, a real bamboozler for mainstream archaeologists, scares the hell out of 'em.

IceAgeCivilizations
12-11-06, 12:22 PM
And Hapgood goes into great detail to explain the base six, twelve constellation, three hundred sixty degree, mapping system of the ancients, but he didn't know how they did it, but now we know, by measuring precession, so they could tell quite precisely where on Earth they were by accurately predicting where the constellations would appear at future dates, according to the 72 years/degree rate of precession, and so, they triangulated their positions on the Earth globe by the stars, with the Celtic Cross, or Maui's Tanawa, and perhaps, the Mayan Staff of Power, and the Antikythera Device.

oozish
12-15-06, 08:36 PM
The Hindu yugas of time are mulitples of 432,000 years, and in Norse legend, groups of 800 warriors of Valhalla entered through 540 doors, total 432,000 warriors, and the Great Pyramid's dimensions are a reduction of the Earth's dimensions by a factor of 43,200, so what is this connection in the ancient world, was it coincidence, or could they measure the Earth, and if so, how did they do it.

random number.

Ophiolite
12-18-06, 05:45 AM
I'm not sure Ophi would recommend Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings because he doesn't know what it's about, I was reading Hapgood when your mother was still in third grade. You clearly haven't read Gavin Menzies's 1421, which provides a much more cogent explanation for the maps you are getting your glaciers in a melt over.

IceAgeCivilizations
12-18-06, 06:07 AM
Sounds like you were there in 1421.

Ophiolite
12-18-06, 07:08 AM
Troll

IceAgeCivilizations
12-18-06, 07:10 AM
Ancient blowhard.

The Devil Inside
12-18-06, 07:26 AM
its actually only political infighting in china that allowed europeans to accomplish many of the "firsts" that we attribute to them.

if one were to have a diagram showing progression of technology, arts, science, and math....the chinese were ahead of europeans by about a hundred years.

it was the "politicians" in china that assured the 500 years of european dominance that we have "enjoyed".

ANY model you look at will show that the chinese could have very easily been the preeminent power, if they could just hold themselves together.

IceAgeCivilizations
12-20-06, 07:26 AM
Yes, there is an ancient map on stone in China which shows accurately that region, almost perfect east-west distance resolution, unattainable without precession mapping. And the Hung League of China uses precession numbers in their correspondences, so the ancient Chinese had this knowledge as well.

leopold
12-20-06, 08:02 AM
Ancient blowhard.
hardheaded mofo.

you yourself stated the steps needed for evolution to occur has ocurred and you STILL refuse to acknowledge what you said.

IceAgeCivilizations
12-20-06, 08:03 AM
Do you mean evolution per se, or Darwinian evolution?

Ophiolite
12-20-06, 09:10 AM
I think he means the Modern Synthesis of Wallace-Darwinian evolution modified by Gould's punctuated equilibrium.

And stop calling me Percy.

IceAgeCivilizations
12-20-06, 09:15 AM
Punctuated equilibrium, that's the one where supposed morphing occurred so fast that no fossils reveal it, how conveeeeeenient.

Ophiolite
12-20-06, 09:21 AM
Go study the requirements for fossil formation. Learn to appreciate what a vanishingly small proportion of dead creatures will evere be fossillised. Then contemplate how few of these will actually be exposed at or near the surface for a geologist to discover.
How convenient, you say. No, asshole, it is f***ing inconvenient, but not as inconvenient as your insidious stupidity.

Gustav
12-20-06, 09:27 AM
i say
cant we all just get along?

/sob

IceAgeCivilizations
12-20-06, 11:13 AM
You said, Ophi, "no, asshole, it is f***ing inconvenient...," I didn't, so get your story straight.

And what is "... vanishingly small proportion of dead creatures will ever be fossilized" supposed to mean?

ddovala
12-21-06, 01:31 AM
Even without fossils we have more than enough evidense to support evolution. Look at molecular genetics for crying out loud.

IceAgeCivilizations
12-21-06, 07:33 AM
Do you mean evolution per se, or Darwinian evolution, where goo supposedly morphed into you?

Nickelodeon
12-21-06, 07:34 AM
where goo supposedly morphed into you?
Well its not like it happened in one step.

IceAgeCivilizations
12-21-06, 07:52 AM
Read the title of the thread please, nothing to do with natural selection within syngameons (evolution per se), nor with Darwinian evolution (goo morphs into you), but they're is a thread about this topic, a very popular one, which now is under cesspool.

Nickelodeon
12-21-06, 07:58 AM
could they measure the Earth, and if so, how did they do it.
Hasn't it been done before, with sticks in the sand?

IceAgeCivilizations
12-21-06, 08:06 AM
No, they measured the rate of the apparent movement of the stars of the constellations, because of the Earth's precession, vis-a-vis the hexagon of the circle of the Earth, and with base 60 system, it was 72 years/degree, so 4,320 years for the constellations to move along one side of the Earth hexagon, which they triangulated with the "Celtic Cross," and subdivided by 7,200 to get the base perimeter length for the Great Pyramid, which is 440 royal cubits per base side, a cubit being 20.632 inches.

Mulitply that royal cubit length by 1,760 (440 x 4) and you get the equivalent of half a modern nautical mile, which is also base 60 derived. Ta daaaa.

Nickelodeon
12-21-06, 08:14 AM
vis-a-vis the hexagon of the circle of the Earth
Wha..?

IceAgeCivilizations
12-21-06, 08:15 AM
Circumscribe a hexagon with a circle (Earth).

Nickelodeon
12-21-06, 08:23 AM
How is the rate of precession related to Earths dimensions?

c7ityi_
12-21-06, 08:28 AM
Why 432 in Ancient World?

Because Zodiac (12) x circle (360) = 4320?

IceAgeCivilizations
12-21-06, 08:35 AM
Yes, this is why those hexagon derived numbers, such as 12, 24, 36, 54, 72, 108, and 432, are all through ancient legends, architectures, and measuring systems.

And the Great Pyramid's dimensions are a reduction by 43,200 of the dimensions of the Earth, and Giza was on the ancient Prime Meridian, as indicated on the Piri Reis Map, which has radial spokes of precession measurement radiating from Giza.

Nickelodeon
12-21-06, 08:42 AM
I still don't see how the rate of precession relates to the radius of the Earth. If the same Earth was 'wobbling' at a slower rate (say half the speed), you'd get 144 years per angle of precession.

IceAgeCivilizations
12-21-06, 08:50 AM
The Earth would wobble once in 25,920 years, divide by 6, you get 4,320 years (60 degrees at 72 years/degree).

Nickelodeon
12-21-06, 08:55 AM
The Earth would wobble once in 25,920 years, divide by 6, you get 4,320 years (60 degrees at 72 years/degree).

No, under those conditions (144 years/degree) it would wobble once every 51,840 years.

IceAgeCivilizations
12-21-06, 08:57 AM
The rate is 72 years per degree.

Nickelodeon
12-21-06, 09:00 AM
Yes and my point is that the rate could have been anything. 50 years, 144 years etc take your pick.

72 years x 360 degress = 25,920 years
144 years x 360 degress = 51,840 years
50 years x 360 degrees = 18,000 years


So...what is the relationship between the rate of precession (say x), and the dimensions of the Earth (say, y)?

How can knowing the rate of precession tell you what the radius of the Earth is? Thats the question I am getting at.

IceAgeCivilizations
12-21-06, 09:03 AM
The ancients knew that the length of one side of the "Earth hexagon" is the same as the radius length of the Earth.

Nickelodeon
12-21-06, 09:08 AM
So how did they measure the length of one side of the "Earth hexagon"?

The length of one side of a hexagon and its inscribed circle is merely a relationship. You still need to know the dimensions of one, to know the dimensions of the other.

IceAgeCivilizations
12-21-06, 09:09 AM
With the "Celtic Cross," they measured the length of one side of the "Earth hexagon" according to the rate of precession, and thereby, measured the radius of the Earth.

IceAgeCivilizations
12-21-06, 09:11 AM
And as 22/7 (pi) x 40/40 = 880/280 (two base sides/GP height), they knew the value of pi, and so, corrected the 3 to 3.14 for there radius reading from the Earth hexagon side reading.

Nickelodeon
12-21-06, 09:11 AM
You are still not answering the basic question: What is the mathematical relationship between the rate of precession, and the Earths dimensions?

How does this "Celtic Cross" relate the two?

IceAgeCivilizations
12-21-06, 09:12 AM
I just did.

Nickelodeon
12-21-06, 09:14 AM
You did no such thing. How does the Celtic Cross relate the two?

IceAgeCivilizations
12-21-06, 09:15 AM
It's just simple arithmetic, astronomy, and geometry, obviously.

Nickelodeon
12-21-06, 09:16 AM
Pi is yet another relationship! You need to know at least 1 dimension!

Nickelodeon
12-21-06, 09:25 AM
It is self evident that the Egyptians knew the Earth was spherical; that they measured its diameter accurately; that they understood where they were located upon the sphere; that they incorporated aspects of this understanding in the dimensions of the pyramid;
What any of this has to do with the number 432 is beyond meaningful hope of redemption..
I agree, IAC is suggesting there is a relationship between the "precessional" number of 432 and the size of the Earth, yet has not explained how this is so in a single post.

IceAgeCivilizations
12-21-06, 11:30 AM
Sure.

IceAgeCivilizations
12-21-06, 11:35 AM
And so Nickelodeon thinks that the length of the royal cubit, 4 x 440 of them (GP base perimeter length) which just happen to equal half a nautical mile (1/7,200th of the radius of the Earth), was determined by the length from some pharoah's elbow to his fingertip, so the term geometry (earth measure) should be forearmetry, according to the Nickster.

Nickelodeon
12-21-06, 11:46 AM
And so Nickelodeon thinks that the length of the royal cubit, 4 x 440 of them (GP base perimeter length) which just happen to equal half a nautical mile (1/7,200th of the radius of the Earth), was determined by the length from some pharoah's elbow to his fingertip, so the term geometry (earth measure) should be forearmetry, according to the Nickster.
Where did I state anything to do with elbows??:confused: I think you confused me with another poster in this thread. I asked a simple question regarding the relationship between the rate of Earths precession and the radius of the Earth, and you sidestep the argument completely?

IceAgeCivilizations
12-21-06, 11:48 AM
So how do you think the length of the Egyptian royal cubit was determined?

Nickelodeon
12-21-06, 11:52 AM
Whats that got to do with precession?

IceAgeCivilizations
12-21-06, 12:00 PM
I have demonstrated how it was arrived at, and you say it's wrong, so what's your reasoning for how it was arrived at?

Nickelodeon
12-21-06, 12:06 PM
I have demonstrated how it was arrived at
Er...no you havent. And I havent said anything was wrong, because you have shown how it was done, just that it was done. Show me how it was done, then I'll make up my mind on whether its wrong.

IceAgeCivilizations
12-21-06, 12:15 PM
It's simple geometry, astronomy, and arithmetic, the 72 years per degree is a rate, time over distance, 4,320 years to go a sixth of the way around the Earth, measure they stars now, and where they will appear that far in the future, go to the site where the stars appear the same as the initial point, that' a sixth of the Earth's circumference away from the initial point, subdivide that distance by 7,200 to get the base perimeter length for the Great Pyramid, subdivide that by 440 x 4, and you get the length for the royal cubit, get it?

Nickelodeon
12-21-06, 12:15 PM
I don't know what IAC is trying to pull, but the constant evasion of questions (well actually 1 question I asked repeatedly with no response) is just going around in circles.

Signing off for a week, and happy Xmas,
Nickelodeon.

IceAgeCivilizations
12-21-06, 12:16 PM
See post #74, and stay clear of the egg nog.

kairologic
12-22-06, 06:58 PM
Know all that is 25920. All that is 72. All that is our breath, as well as the fractal specimen that is what we call "cosmos" or "universe." Go here to fuel your FIRE:

www dot kairologic dot com

"may the rose bloom on the cross"
Lux Et Veritas,
Brendan Bombaci

IceAgeCivilizations
12-22-06, 07:43 PM
"Fractal specimen that is what we call cosmos or universe?" So what's beyond the cosmos?

kairologic
12-22-06, 11:00 PM
Well... that really is the question, now isn't it? :)
What do you suppose is beyond the cosmos?
I've always wondered that quite deeply myself... I know some ponder and then stop because they feel that it is a moot point, or rather that it is impossible to know, but I think perhaps that with transcendental consciousness there is some unveiling. The more we've become aware of our own bodies, the more we've become aware of the rest of "reality." Same goes, I feel, for how we can choose to merge with the greater Akashic awareness and get a glimpse, if not only for one rocket-launched balls-in-stomach psychedelic ride of a smiling moment... of what the cosmos is growing into, or a glimmer of what might be outside of it's fractal containment field (given the alternative ideal that the universe is a solid state energy form of simply constant change and does not actually expand - perhaps a tube torus or such). There's always this answer: The Void. The womb ("Prakrti" to the Vedic Seer), in which all polar interactions can occur to turn that infinite consciousness of God (pure, neutral - 0 wavelength or zero-point - energy) into the multitudes of wavelengths that give birth to the lattice points upon which any concentrations or ripple-intersections of energy will manifest what we might call "matter." Which is really energy, after all.

So what's beyond the universe? Let me speak with Maria Pastora once more... she imparts quite a fascinating wealth of magnificent vision and understanding into my soul. I was promised, even, another "lesson" upon my next return to that astral plane I can navigate so wantingly. This one will be in telepathy and telekinesis, I am told. We'll have to see how well I can integrate said enhancements.

Chiros, not chronos, is the truth to spacetime. In the state of chiros, however, one will not lust or retain or intend... so the answers will be actualized but STILL not understood. It takes a return from said 'afterlife' into one's intentional body, to maintain any interpretation of what had been experienced - into the neural matrix, that is. Our brains are like crystals.

Can you believe in "nothing?" I sometimes find it hard to believe in ANYTHING! I mean: how strange is it to imagine all of life, the universe, and everything... coming from any single point?? Isn't it just human to narrow everything down to one? We are taught this through numbers and through genetics and through evolutionary sciences... but this is a might different, perhaps. Especially considering how it takes "two" to create polarity, or waves if you will. What about that "nothing" idea, anyhow: is it possible that there was ever "nothing"? From nothing, as we know, can come nothing. Are we then nothing? I doubt it. But if there was no clean palette to begin with, then there is always a one-higher domain or creator or set of rules!! HOW BOGGLING. ACK.

May you be well over the apex of solstice, and the trials of holidays. ;)

once again! that number is www dot kairologic dot com... please visit!

IceAgeCivilizations
12-23-06, 05:54 AM
You say "Chiros, not Chronos, is the truth to spacetime," well, Chronos (Chronus, which means against Noah), the "Time Man," was Ham, also known as Cham, Khem, and Chem, he had the methodology to survey the Great Pyramid, the method to achieve such which I've described, from which was derived the length for the Egyptian royal cubit.

So Chronos measured time/distance, the rate of precession, and so was able to master, so to speak, the Earth, and Atlas, his great grandson, made the methodology famous, as he oversaw the growth of Atlantis in the Gibraltar region, during the Ice Age.

Those ancients could measure the Earth with this simple astronomy, geometry, and arithmetic, with a simple mechanical device, learned from before the Deluge, and passed through Noah and his children for the measuring and mapping of the Earth after the Deluge, after Pangea had broken up into the continents which we see today.

Nickelodeon
12-23-06, 05:57 AM
Those ancients could measure the Earth with this simple astronomy, geometry, and arithmetic, with a simple mechanical device, learned from before the Deluge, and passed through Noah and his children for the measuring and mapping of the Earth after the Deluge, after Pangea had broken up into the continents which we see today.

Ah yes! The mysterious "Celtic Cross"! So simple it doesn't even work!

IceAgeCivilizations
12-23-06, 06:02 AM
He received two patents for it, and it's now used as a backup navigational device for sailing vessels.

Nickelodeon
12-23-06, 06:08 AM
Yet it still doesnt measure the Earth radius, as you suggest.
http://zebu.uoregon.edu/~probs/bas/trig/hexcirc/_16188_figure4.gif
You still need 1 dimension to begin with.

IceAgeCivilizations
12-23-06, 06:14 AM
Time/distance, no problem there.

Nickelodeon
12-23-06, 06:16 AM
Time/distance, no problem there.

Er ... did you just read what you wrote?!

Time / distance

i.e. you need to know the distance!

LOL!

IceAgeCivilizations
12-23-06, 06:19 AM
The the whole point hahahaha.

IceAgeCivilizations
12-23-06, 06:20 AM
Can you tell me the astronomical premise of the methodology which I've described, or are you totally clueless?

Nickelodeon
12-23-06, 06:21 AM
The the whole point hahahaha.

Exactly! And you cant measure that distance! hahahaha

Nickelodeon
12-23-06, 06:21 AM
The the whole point hahahaha.

Exactly! And you can't measure that distance! hahahaha

IceAgeCivilizations
12-23-06, 06:22 AM
So what's my astronomical premise?

kairologic
12-23-06, 09:41 AM
You are correct, sir! No argument there. In fact, I applaud you for knowing what you do and for speaking it out where you can. Some may call an insistent scholar a nerd, but that's in this country... what about "master" of an art? Indeed.

Anyhow, yes. Chronos is a great way for us to understand ratios. But not true measure. As even Xeno later discovered, there are infinite points between anywhere (ANYWHERE), and it is of no truth to decide that any one measure is a correct way. In as much, I have proposed a new law of sorts, which is on my blog page called "prophesies" within (www dot kairologic dot com)... it goes into said science and the phi ratio, of course. Straight lines can be compared. We can use a stick as a rule of measure, so to speak. However, when one gets closer to the curvature of a perfect circle, measuring devices are rendered silly. This is because the universe is constantly spiralling inward and outward (and in far more directions than your mind would like to visualize that right now). Just as EM waves are not simply 3d, these spiralling motions of particles and larger physical entities are occurring as they they are uniform globular (spherical) 'blobs' operating to both permeate and expand into all that we know.

In further, chronos is a way of comparing instances for which we can create reference points in history and seasons and migrations... and also rules of measure by which we can construct and design... so on. It's a very HUMAN task! Wonderful one at that. Chronos is not bunk as a science of manipulation, but it dodges real time and distancing none the less. Thing is: those calculations are only correct if you are on THIS WORLD. No other. Beyond that, there is the Truth (Zoroastrianism, anyone?); and, the Truth is Chiros. Kairologically speaking, that is. ;)

Walter L. Wagner
12-23-06, 12:49 PM
Kairologic:

Where do you come up with the idea that 1 Royal Cubit = 18" ?

Both Ice Age and I have concluded that 1 Royal Cubit = 20.63", and is the 1/440th part of one side of the GP, as is written in many Encyclopedias, etc.

And also, the Kilometer was initially developed by the French to be the 1/10,000,000th part of the 1/4 circumference of the Earth (Distance from Pole to Equator along the surface), not as you write in your web page. This is also well-detailed in various Encyclopedias, etc.

You should at least get your facts to agree with Ice Age, if you wish to applaud him.

IceAgeCivilizations
12-29-06, 08:37 AM
And of course, 440 royal cubits x 4 base sides equals half a nautical mile, 1/43,200th of the circumference of the Earth. And the Hindu yugas of time are multilples of 432,000 years, and the pre-Deluge of kings of a Babylonian kings list reigned for 432,000 years, so these numbers obviously derived from the Earth measuring by the ancients.

valich
01-01-07, 12:24 AM
So Chronos measured time/distance, the rate of precession, and so was able to master, so to speak, the Earth, and Atlas, his great grandson, made the methodology famous, as he oversaw the growth of Atlantis in the Gibraltar region, during the Ice Age.

Those ancients could measure the Earth with this simple astronomy, geometry, and arithmetic, with a simple mechanical device, learned from before the Deluge, and passed through Noah and his children for the measuring and mapping of the Earth after the Deluge, after Pangea had broken up into the continents which we see today.

Chronos was just a god in Greek mythology. You can't use Chronos as a source? And lets not start on Atlantis again. Although I do like the reference that it was near the Mediterranean.

What type of "simple mechanical device" are you talking about? Do you know what it was?

valich
01-01-07, 01:12 AM
The Hindu yugas of time are mulitples of 432,000 years, and in Norse legend, groups of 800 warriors of Valhalla entered through 540 doors, total 432,000 warriors, and the Great Pyramid's dimensions are a reduction of the Earth's dimensions by a factor of 43,200, so what is this connection in the ancient world, was it coincidence, or could they measure the Earth, and if so, how did they do it.

When you multiply the length of the Egyptian royal cubit (20.632 inches) by 440 (cubits per base side of the Great Pyramid), and then by 4 (four base sides), and then by 43,200, you get 21,600 nautical miles (within 0.5%), the circumference length of the Earth, so how'd they do that?

IAC: You've really been getting blasted throughout this thread with a lot of undue criticism. What a pity no one seems to have - or try to have - more constructive insight into your initial post. I really know nothing about this subject at all but find it fascinating and would like to learn more. Where did you get this from? Can you recommend any sources? Thanks.

IceAgeCivilizations
01-01-07, 10:27 AM
See article #2 at my website, it explains the deal, Graham Hancock, Crichton Miller, and Ralph Ellis provided the information for me to deduce this finding.

Dinosaur
01-12-07, 06:09 PM
I know of no evidence that the ancient Egyptians had any clue about the size or shape of the Earth.

There is a historical account of some Greek calculating the circumference fairly accurately. I think perhaps 100 years or less after Alex The Great did his thing.

This Greek mathematician (philosopher?) learned that some in city south of Alexandria a vertical pole cast no shadow at noon on a particular date. He measured the length of the shadow of a vertical pole in Alexandria. With that measurment and a measurement of the distance from Alexandriai to the other city, he could calulate the circumference of the Earth, assuming that it was spherical.

I think his measurment was at least as good as 5% of the modern value.

To the best of my knowledge, that Greek was the first documented person who knew the Earth was flat and who also performed a valid experiment to measure its size.

Any seafaring culture is likely to have know or at leqst suspected that the Earth was a sphere. There were probably others prior to that Greek who believed that the Earth was a sphere. I do not believe that anyone prior to him gave an accurate measurement or described a method for making one.

Itseemstome
01-14-07, 12:35 PM
Its also the number of seconds in 5 days. If thats the slightest bit relevant.

IceAgeCivilizations
01-14-07, 01:29 PM
Absolutely relevent, that there are 86,400 seconds of a day, while the Great Pyramid is a reduction of the Earth's dimensions by a factor of 43,200, shows the interrelatedness of time to distance, geometry, Earth measure, as measured by the ancients, according to the 72 yrs/degree rate of the slow wobble of the Earth's axis.

Our modern system of nautical miles is based upon this ancient method, the Great Pyramid's base perimeter length is half a nautical mile.

draqon
01-14-07, 01:35 PM
its just a random number

IceAgeCivilizations
01-14-07, 01:40 PM
To believe those are random numbers, though plainly derived from the measurable rate of precession, is akin to believing that some pharoah surveyed the dimensions of the GP by the length from his elbow to fingertip, and that structure just happens to be half a nautical mile of base perimeter length, and aligned to true north with an accuracy of 0.5%, you're trying to avoid the obvious, dragon.

draqon
01-14-07, 01:41 PM
To believe those are random numbers, though plainly derived from the measurable rate of precession, is akin to believing that some pharoah surveyed the dimensions of the GP by the length from his elbow to fingertip, and that structure just happens to be half a nautical mile of base perimeter length, and aligned to true north with an accuracy of 0.5%, you're trying to avoid the obvious, dragon.

just a coincidence.

IceAgeCivilizations
01-14-07, 01:44 PM
Like 2 + 2 = 4 is a coincidence.

draqon
01-14-07, 01:45 PM
Like 2 + 2 = 4 is a coincidence.

don be silly.

IceAgeCivilizations
01-14-07, 01:46 PM
What are the odds that those numbers are a coincidence?

zenbabelfish
01-19-07, 01:44 PM
Hello to you all and thanks to the SciForum organisers. This is my first post and a fascinating discussion (I apologise in advance for the polemic)...

That the Sun is approximately 400 times the Moons' distance from the Earth, and the Suns' diameter is approximately 400 times that of the Moon, does not imply that 'design' has created the conditions for a Total Solar Eclipse to occur - it is coincidence and that is a matter of probability.

The combination of variables that create the Total Solar Eclipse may seem an incredible coincidence from the perspective of Earth but in universal terms solar eclipses may occur at many coordinates.

The need to invest coincidence with meaning was/is important at some stage in human evolution or may be a by-product of other perceptual mechanisms. It is human nature to recognise patterns and elaborate them e.g. dragons or dolphins in the clouds. The architecture of human perceptual processes is a product of evolutionary cosmological patterns - the same patterns that dictate the probability of eclipses being visible or the probability that different human cultures will adopt similar methodologies...so it is not suprising that recognition occurs and meaning is invested in significance.

The original posting raised the question (in reference to the relationship between the dimensions of Great Pyramid and Earth): '...so what is this connection in the ancient world, was it coincidence, or could they measure the Earth, and if so, how did they do it..?'

My answer is: the same perceptual mechanisms that developed artifacts in the ancient world are the same perceptual mechanisms that perceive coincidence. Coincidence and synchronicity stand out as a pattern of certainty in a random universe; Probability dictates coincidence but it is human nature that invests these events with meaning.

When we see synchronicity we subconsciously recognise the patterns of our own human (and truly universal) nature.

IceAgeCivilizations
01-19-07, 01:58 PM
What strikes me as way beyond coincidence is that the rate of the slow wobble of the Earth's axis is just so for humans to be able to measure the dimensions of the Earth by it, right down to the length for the Egyptian royal cubit, derived from this cartographically valuable rate of a wobble of the Earth's axis in 25,920 years, quite a design.

zenbabelfish
01-19-07, 03:49 PM
The Egyptian Royal Cubit (ERC) is of similar length to a forearm (e.g. the division of the ERC is to seven palms of four digits): the fact that there is a relationship between the forearm and axial wobble is a coincidence.

zenbabelfish
01-19-07, 04:52 PM
Apologies for the sophistry; just a mechanism to elucidate an approximation of 'truth.'
Is a conspiracy a sinister plot or an inevitable outcome of history? In the beehive is it really the worker who is enslaved? They appear to have greater freedom than the queen.

Perhaps it is humans who create coincidence and not the natural world...

IceAgeCivilizations
01-19-07, 06:01 PM
What does all that have to do with the ancient precession mapping of the Earth?

zenbabelfish
01-19-07, 07:12 PM
For a start we can apply Occam's Razor - which is more plausible: the cubit was based on the forearm or 'ancient precession mapping of the Earth'?

IceAgeCivilizations
01-20-07, 07:32 AM
I have demonstrated how the ancients established the length of the royal cubit from the circumference length of the Earth, now you must explain how the ancients supposedly used some guy's elbow to fingertip length to survey the Great Pyramid to be aligned within 0.5% of true north, and why they chose 440 royal cubits per base side, and 280 royal cubits for the height.

zenbabelfish
01-20-07, 08:08 AM
North would have been discernable through astronomy or magnetism without establishing the circumference length of the Earth e.g. needle points that way (North) through 'magic' unseen power (magnetism/gods)...lets align a monument that way...; and Occams' Razor would suggest that the dimensions of the pyramid were limited by practical structural and logistic reasons. E,g, Stonehenge could not have been built larger as there was a limitation on manpower and materials.

I'm not totally against your premise (I don't believe that historically knowledge lies on a linear vector); it would greatly help me understand your case if you could re-explain how the Egyptians deducted the 'measurement' to enable calculation of the circumference of the Earth. What points, A-to-B, did they measure?

IceAgeCivilizations
01-20-07, 08:14 AM
They triangulated the position of a star, and then, knowing that at 72 years/degree, in the future, the star would appear at a specific position after a specific number of years, so they measured the circle of the Earth by measuring the circle of the sky.

They subdivided 1/6th of the way around the Earth by 7,200 to establish the base perimeter length for the Great Pyramid.

zenbabelfish
01-20-07, 09:20 AM
That sounds entirely plausible and concurs with my understanding of plotting co-ordinates using geometry (although this is always in need of updating).

However, if one subscribes to anthropic-type theories based on the premise that proportionality exists throughout the universe (e.g. Gribbin and Rees: ....the size of the human is the geometrical average figure between the size of an atom and the size of a planet is the geometrical average figure between an atom and the Universe), the forearm cannot be ruled out as a template for the cubit even though the cubit conforms to other patterns of coincidence.

IceAgeCivilizations
01-20-07, 09:23 AM
It's supposedly elbow to fingertip, I used to call it forearmetry, but it really is elbow-to-fingertipmetry

Walter L. Wagner
01-20-07, 01:06 PM
It is well documented that the 1/4 base-perimeter of the GP is 440 Royal Cubits. The number 440 shows up in other intriguing ways too, such as the 1/4 mile is 440 Yards. Clearly, there is likely a link in those relationships. Likewise, 6 X 6 X 6 X 2 is 432, so our 1/2 day of 12 hours, X 60 minutes to the hour and 60 seconds to the minute also gives that intriguing relationship.

It is plausible that initially the ancient Egyptians measured the circumference of the Earth, though not accurately, but off by 0.5%, as is the value given by Ice Age. They then used that as the value for computing the Royal Cubit.

The common man, however, would likely have known none of that in those days, and because the Royal Cubit was coincidentally about the same as the elbow-to-fingertip for the average person, in the field that would have been a common method for giving a rough measurement (just as today we use fingertip-to-fingertip is roughly 2 yards, or one human foot is roughly one lineal foot).

As they improved their measurement capabilities, and as they enhanced their knowledge, they devised instead the Scientific Cubit, which again the common man would have known nothing about. That was thereafter encoded in the GP, as per the prior posts I've given on that topic on the GP.

Clearly, the magnetic north was not used to align the GP, since it is so very closely aligned to the astronomical north, and not close to the magnetic north.

Ice Age, what are your other sources/references for the use of the number 432 (or 43200) in other cultures. Clearly, that likely predates the Egypt of the pyramid building era; how did it get spread into the 'legends' you reference?

IceAgeCivilizations
01-20-07, 01:46 PM
The Norse legend of Valhalla, the Hindu yugas, the 72 conspirators against Osiris, the Hung League numbers, all reflect the widespread knowledge about precession mapping, they all spread from the Middle East and Egypt, in patterns and etymologies generalized in Genesis 10.

Dinosaur
01-20-07, 09:24 PM
In about 240 BC, Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of the Earth fairly accurately. His method was excellent. See http://www.juliantrubin.com/bigten/eratosthenes.html I do not think there is any record of an earlier successful attempt to measure the size of the Earth.

It seems silly to believe that the Egyptians who built the GP much earlier had a clue about the size of the Earth. We have a lot of translated documents from ancient Egypt, with none mentioning any estimate of the size of the Earth, or describing it as a sphere.

I think that ancient sailors knew the Earth was a sphere. However, prior to the Golden Age of Greece, I do not think there are any records of a culture describing the Earth as spherical.

IceAgeCivilizations
01-20-07, 09:27 PM
So you would have us believe that those numbers are just coincidence, whatever.

zenbabelfish
01-20-07, 09:38 PM
Exactly

draqon
01-20-07, 09:42 PM
coincidence
and human wish for aliens to exist...for apocalypse to happen no matter what...for psychic abilities of humans to come true...for life thats surreal

IceAgeCivilizations
01-21-07, 07:49 AM
What are the odds that those numbers are coincidence, a trillion to one? I bet it's at least that, so those odds are what you are bucking to believe it's all coincidence, I hope you're not a gambler, then again, I hope you are!

Dinosaur
01-21-07, 09:31 AM
Yes to the following.
So you would have us believe that those numbers are just coincidence, whateverWith the clarity of hindsight, one can discover all sorts of alleged facts buried in ancient writings & building dimensions.

Consider the bible code nonsense. When you know the history of the last 2000 years, you can shuffle ancient data until you get what looks like a prophecy.

If some multiple of 432 does not work, try multiples of 343 (7*7*7) or 1728 (2*12*12), or some other interesting number until you find a coincidence. Then accept a reasonable error like 1-2% to make the data fit.

Note that Eratosthnes published his obviously correct method, showing that he knew what he was doing.

IceAgeCivilizations
01-21-07, 09:32 AM
But all those numbers in all those ancient legends and architectures.

zenbabelfish
01-21-07, 01:28 PM
The odds are much less than a trillion to one...surely?

zenbabelfish
01-21-07, 01:32 PM
I think there is 1.0 (100%) probability that they are all coincidence.

draqon
01-21-07, 01:34 PM
I think there is 1.0 (100%) probability that they are all coincidence.

its a bit more than that...ITS PEOPLE PSYCHED ON gODS AND NUMBERS...that this insanity goes on through century...belief in astrology is proof

IceAgeCivilizations
01-23-07, 09:25 AM
Draqon, I put no stock in numerology, this is simple geometry (Earth measure), by precession.

Ophiolite
01-23-07, 09:29 AM
Hamlet's Mill

IceAgeCivilizations
01-31-07, 10:48 AM
Yes, the book "Hamlet's Mill" was written back in the 60's by Hertha von Dechend, professor at the University of Frankfurt, and Giorgio Diaz de Santillana, professor at M.I.T.

They noted the commonality of the precession numbers in the legends and architectures of various ancient cultures, then, in the early 90's, Graham Hancock popularized the idea that the Great Pyramid's dimensions were somehow derived from the ability to measure the dimensions of the Earth by precession time, related to the precession numbers from various cultures cited by Von Dechend and Santillana.

So then I came along and figured out how they actually did it, and that was the origin of the geometry and number-denominations of our modern mapping system, with the arc second (2 Great Pyramid base perimeter lengths), and with the arc minute (120 Great Pyramid base perimeter lengths).

jumpercable
01-31-07, 01:41 PM
4,3,2,1.........Time's up. You lose.

IceAgeCivilizations
01-31-07, 01:59 PM
Was that an attempt to rebut?

zenbabelfish
01-31-07, 02:00 PM
Deja vu?

Dinosaur
02-01-07, 11:53 AM
IceAce: The following is nonsense.
They noted the commonality of the precession numbers in the legends and architectures of various ancient cultures, then, in the early 90's, Graham Hancock popularized the idea that the Great Pyramid's dimensions were somehow derived from the ability to measure the dimensions of the Earth by precession time, related to the precession numbers from various cultures cited by Von Dechend and Santillana.There is no evidence even remotely suggesting that the pyramid builders had enough knowledge to calculate Earth dimensions from precession data.

There is no evidence that they knew the Earth was a rotating sphere orbiting the sun. There is no reason to suppose that they knew and failed to leave records of their knowledge.

Are there any Egyptologists here with knowledge of any records indicating what the pyramid builders thought about the Earth & the solar system?

The Devil Inside
02-02-07, 02:38 AM
the curvature of the earth can be used to calculate the totality of earth's size.
its not that difficult.

Nickelodeon
02-02-07, 02:41 AM
But not with precessional data.

Ophiolite
02-04-07, 11:57 AM
IceAce: The following is nonsense.There is no evidence even remotely suggesting that the pyramid builders had enough knowledge to calculate Earth dimensions from precession data.
I think it is something of a stretch to say there is no evidence. Or rather there is evidence to suggest they knew something of the dimensions of the Earth with a fair measure of accuracy and that they knew about precession. This evidence was originally identifed by, IIRC, Piazzi Smith, then Astronomer Royal (?), or some other functionary at the Edinburgh Observatory. The dimensions coded into the Great Pyramid could be coincidence, but their apparent match to Earth mensuration is highly suggestive and does, therefore, constitute evidence - which as always is not at all the same thing as proof.

IceAgeCivilizations
02-04-07, 12:59 PM
Well done Ophi, now you're coming along.

zenbabelfish
02-04-07, 01:21 PM
HI Ophiolite, I found this on Wikipedia:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Piazzi_Smyth
"Smyth claimed that the measurements he obtained from the Great Pyramid of Giza indicated a unit of length, the pyramid inch, equivalent to 1.001 British inches, that could have been the standard of measurement by the pyramid's architects. From this he extrapolated a number of other measurements, including the pyramid pint, the sacred cubit, and the pyramid scale of temperature.

Smyth claimed, and presumably believed, that the pyramid inch was a God-given measure handed down through the centuries from the time of Israel, and that the architects of the pyramid could only have been directed by the hand of God. To support this Smyth said that, in measuring the pyramid, he found the number of inches in the perimeter of the base equalled one thousand times the number of days in a year, and found a numeric relationship between the height of the pyramid in inches to the distance from Earth to the Sun, measured in statute miles. "

This obviously doesn't cover what you have described in your post. Please could you point me to the source of your info so I can get a clear understanding of Smyth's methodology? Thanks.

IceAgeCivilizations
02-04-07, 01:30 PM
Of course, a logical explanation for how the length of the supposed "pyramid inch" was established does not exist, but by measuring the rate of precession, incorporated with simple geometry and arithmetic, the ancients did measure the dimensions of the Earth, as I have demonstrated.

What are the odds that the rate of precession would be just so that humans could measure the dimensions of the Earth with precession measurements and the application of simple geometry and arithmetic?

Satyr
02-04-07, 08:34 PM
If I take IceAgeCivilization’s I.Q. divide it by his penis size and multiply it by the number of braincells in his holy and destined for eternal life mind, how close to the end of the world do I get?

zenbabelfish
02-04-07, 08:54 PM
The Big Meltdown

IceAgeCivilizations
02-05-07, 05:35 AM
Saty, why don't you start a new thread about penis measuring and braincells? Should be fascinating.

Ophiolite
02-06-07, 03:48 AM
This obviously doesn't cover what you have described in your post. Please could you point me to the source of your info so I can get a clear understanding of Smyth's methodology? Thanks.I am currently in the Middle East. When I return home at the weekend I'll get you the reference - a book on the Great Pyramid published in the early 1980s and focusing on the significance of its geometry and dimensions in general, and Smyth's work in particular. I may also have purchased an original of Smyth's book on the subject a couple of months ago, but haven't got round to reading it yet.

zenbabelfish
02-06-07, 04:55 AM
Thanks Ophiolite...

IceAgeCivilizations
02-06-07, 05:36 AM
But nobody's opined on how the ancients supposedly determined the length for the so-called pyramid inch.

Any takers?

Dinosaur
02-07-07, 09:42 PM
IceAge: The so called Pyramid inch was invented by Smyth, based on erroneous measurements of the Great Pyramid. One of those who had credentials and initially supported him rejected his notions when better measurements were made. Smyth was discredited in his own time, and there is no reason to believe in his ideas today.

Do some real research on Smyth via Google. You might learn something.

For 60 years I have been reading nonsense about Pyramid mythology and lost knowledge of ancient civilizations. It is all bulls**t made up by those who are either charlatans (out to make a buck by publishing books) or fools who do not know how to do proper research.

A long ago favorite myth was the claim that the ancients had a method of hardening copper so that it was as strong as (perhaps stronger than) than modern steel alloys. Another was that the steam engine was invented in ancient times. Actually, there are historical descriptions of a rotating toy based on steam jets, but it could hardly be called a usable power source (this might be the origin of this particular myth). The Atlantis & Mu mythology has been revived many times.

Precession is due to orbital dynamics (maybe), the Earths’s magnetic field (??), the dynamics of the rotation of the metallic core of the Earth (likely), and/or some interaction among these dynamics. The precession known to the ancients could only be determined by observation of the apparent position of various distant stars.

The apparent position of stars light years distant from Earth would be the same if the Earth were twice as big or twice as small. This concept of determining Earth dimensions from precession is utter nonsense.

Furthermore, understanding the very concept of precession of the axis of the Earth requires a knowledge of a heliocentric solar system with the Earth orbiting the sun. There is zero evidence that the pyramid builders had a clue about a heliocentric solar system.

Ophiolite
02-07-07, 10:23 PM
Do some real research on Smyth via Google. You might learn something. ..........
or fools who do not know how to do proper research.
Real research? Google? Tongue? Cheek?

zenbabelfish
02-07-07, 10:27 PM
HI Ophiolite, I found this on Wikipedia:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Piazzi_Smyth
"Smyth claimed that the measurements he obtained from the Great Pyramid of Giza indicated a unit of length, the pyramid inch, equivalent to 1.001 British inches, that could have been the standard of measurement by the pyramid's architects. From this he extrapolated a number of other measurements, including the pyramid pint, the sacred cubit, and the pyramid scale of temperature.

Smyth claimed, and presumably believed, that the pyramid inch was a God-given measure handed down through the centuries from the time of Israel, and that the architects of the pyramid could only have been directed by the hand of God. To support this Smyth said that, in measuring the pyramid, he found the number of inches in the perimeter of the base equalled one thousand times the number of days in a year, and found a numeric relationship between the height of the pyramid in inches to the distance from Earth to the Sun, measured in statute miles. "

This obviously doesn't cover what you have described in your post. Please could you point me to the source of your info so I can get a clear understanding of Smyth's methodology? Thanks.

Hi Ophiolite, did you manage to find that reference please?

IceAgeCivilizations
02-08-07, 06:02 AM
Dinosaur, if the Earth were twice as big, the same methodology would work, based upon the rate (of precession), time/distance.

One sixth of the way around the Earth would still equal the length of the radius of the Earth, so they would have just subdivided the radius of the Earth to establish the base perimeter length for the Great Pyramid.

So Dino, how'd they align the GP to within 0.5% of True North?

IceAgeCivilizations
02-08-07, 06:34 AM
Hey Dino, why does it say in the Popol Vuh that the ancients "measured the round face of the Earth and the arch of the sky?"

Why is the dimension reduction factor of the Great Pyramid from the Earth denomintated by 432, the same denominator of the Hindu yugas of time?

Dinosaur
02-09-07, 10:20 AM
IceIage: Post a citation showing the mathematics which compute Earth dimensions from precession data. Your claim that it can be done is not sufficient. None of your previous posts show any convincing mathematics.

You are attempting to baffle us with bulls**t because you cannot dazzle us with briolliance.

Until you can show some valid mathematics, you are a crackpot spouting nonsense.

BTW: You carp about coincidences, some of which are contrived. Coincidences prove nothing.

I retract the above remark. Coincidences prove that there is no supernatural entity preventing coincidences from happening.

Nickelodeon
02-09-07, 10:22 AM
so they would have just subdivided the radius of the Earth
By what number?

IceAgeCivilizations
02-09-07, 10:51 AM
Nick, they divided the radius length of the Earth by 7,200 to establish the GP's base perimeter length.

Dino, see article #2 at my website for the full explanation, I could rewrite it here, but I see no need.

Nickelodeon
02-09-07, 12:29 PM
How did they work out the radius of the Earth?

IceAgeCivilizations
02-09-07, 12:31 PM
See above.

Nickelodeon
02-10-07, 07:23 AM
They worked out the radius of the Earth using the radius of the Earth?

IceAgeCivilizations
02-10-07, 07:27 AM
Nick, you've been through all this as I recall, if not, read the finding.

Nickelodeon
02-10-07, 07:27 AM
Nick, you've been through all this as I recall, if not, read the finding.

And you have not addressed the basic point - The radius of the Earth is in no way related to its' precession!

IceAgeCivilizations
02-10-07, 07:36 AM
Oh go back to sleep.

IceAgeCivilizations
02-10-07, 07:38 AM
If you still don't get it when you wake up, and want to get it, I'd be happy to walk you through it.

Nickelodeon
02-10-07, 07:39 AM
Oh go back to sleep.
A response like that pretty much confirms that you have no idea how precession and the radius of the Earth are related.

IceAgeCivilizations
02-10-07, 07:42 AM
So tell me, how do you say precession and the radius of the Earth are related?

Nickelodeon
02-10-07, 07:45 AM
They are not.

IceAgeCivilizations
02-10-07, 07:46 AM
You just said they were.

Nickelodeon
02-10-07, 07:48 AM
No I didnt. I said you didnt know how they were related.


The reason you dont know how they are related is because they are not related in the first place!

IceAgeCivilizations
02-10-07, 07:49 AM
I'll walk you through it if you like.

Nickelodeon
02-10-07, 07:50 AM
I'll walk you through it if you like.

The why dont you do it instead of talking about it?

IceAgeCivilizations
02-10-07, 08:25 AM
Ok, can you accept the premise that the ancients were aware of, and could measure, the rate of precession?

Nickelodeon
02-10-07, 08:28 AM
Supposing they did, what next? (And by rate you mean how long it takes for one complete precessional cycle).

IceAgeCivilizations
02-10-07, 08:30 AM
Yes, so at 72 yrs/degree, you get 25,920 years for one cycle, right?

Nickelodeon
02-10-07, 08:33 AM
Divide the circle into 360 sections and you take 72 years to move through one section.

IceAgeCivilizations
02-10-07, 08:36 AM
So using that rate, if you move 1/6th of the way around the Earth, the straight line connecting those two points is the same length as is the radius length of the Earth, right?

Nickelodeon
02-10-07, 08:37 AM
the straight line connecting those two points
What two points? Where is point A and where is point B?

IceAgeCivilizations
02-10-07, 08:39 AM
Any two points sixty degrees apart.

Nickelodeon
02-10-07, 08:41 AM
Yes but where are the points? What are they using as their frame of reference?

IceAgeCivilizations
02-10-07, 08:44 AM
Their starting point from which to move east or west sixty degrees.

Nickelodeon
02-10-07, 08:45 AM
Which is located where? What point are you starting from? A star? A landmark? What?

IceAgeCivilizations
02-10-07, 08:52 AM
It doesn't matter.

Nickelodeon
02-10-07, 09:05 AM
Of course it does.

IceAgeCivilizations
02-10-07, 09:05 AM
Ok, go back to sleep.

Nickelodeon
02-10-07, 09:06 AM
So basically you dont have a clue.

IceAgeCivilizations
02-10-07, 09:19 AM
I successfully refuted you previously, no need to drill you again.

But I will say this to all, a rate (72 yrs/degree) is time over distance, so in a given amount of time, a measurable distance is covered, distance along the Earth, by the constellations, because of the wobble of the Earth's axis, Nick is dense or obfuscative, or both.

Nickelodeon
02-10-07, 09:23 AM
distance along the Earth, by the constellations
Hmmm..... so the points are stars, except you dont seem to realise that this is not in any way related to the radius of the Earth. Even if the Earths radius was twice the size, the time taken to measure the movement of stars doesnt change.

I think we can safely assume you dont know what the hell you are talking about.

There is no relation between Earths' precession and Earths' radius. Hence calculating one does not lead you to the other.

IceAgeCivilizations
02-10-07, 09:30 AM
You are so dense.

Nickelodeon
02-10-07, 09:32 AM
You are so dense.
Wow what a convincing argument.

IceAgeCivilizations
02-10-07, 11:19 AM
That's all you can handle.

Nickelodeon
02-10-07, 11:21 AM
Even better.

Dinosaur
02-10-07, 09:50 PM
IceAge: I took the time to read the two articles at your web site. There is nothing there which supports your claim about the ancients being able to compute Earth radius from precession data.Other than your claim, you show no citations from other sources indicating that the pyramid builders had precession data collected over some period of time prior to their building the pyramids. Their culture was surely capable of collecting such data, but aside from your assertions, you show no evidence that they actually had such data.


Aside from your assertions, you provide no convincing mathematics to show a relationship between precession & Earth dimensions. Precession data merely describes changes in the apparent position of distant stars, some of which are thousands or millions of light years away. One light year is well over one billion Earth diameters. If the diameter of the Earth were twice or half what it is, no ancient culture could measure a difference in apparent position of a star even 10 light years away. Even if precession data were related to Earth dimensions, the pyramid builders would not have precise enough data to compute the diameter of the Earth.


There is no relationship between precession and the dimensions of the Earth. You cannot compute one from a knowledge of the other. If you claim otherwise, do not post more bulls**t. Instead, post a citiation to some reputable source.


Even if precession data were related to Earth dimensions, the pyramid builders would have to know that the Earth was a rotating sphere orbiting the sun. They did not have a clue about the dynamics of the solar system.Your assertions on this issue are not sufficient to support your weird notions on this subject.

You cannot provide any citation (other than your own web site and similar crackpot sites) which describe a relationship between precession data and Earth dimensions. Untill you can provide such a citation, I and other knowledgable posters will have no choice but to consider you a crackpot who made up this nonsenes or copied it from another crackpot.

BTW: Smyth also seems to have been a crackpot (or a religious fanatic), Since he was from the 19th century (almost 150 years ago), there is some excuse for his naive views of Egyptian technology. You have no excuse for your weird notions.

Dinosaur
02-11-07, 12:54 AM
IceAge: I just noticed the following question from one of your previous posts.
So Dino, how'd they align the GP to within 0.5% of True North?It requires little more than observation of the North Star over a period of a few months to a year or so to discover that it always indicates True North.

Even cultures without a compass can determine True North via Polaris without having a clue about solar system dynamics, the dimensions of the Earth, or the fact that the Earth is a sphere rotating about an axis.

IceAgeCivilizations
02-11-07, 05:34 AM
The concepts appear to be over your head Dino, hang in there buddy.

IceAgeCivilizations
02-11-07, 05:48 AM
Dino, that you say that the great distance of the stars from us is a factor in this demonstration of precession measuring reveals that you're way out there too, they measured the precession movement of the Earth sphere within the celestial sphere, they didn't need to know how far away the sphere is, just the rate that it appears to move along the horizon (72 yrs/degree) because of precession. Shake yourself.

You're just an ignorant crackpot who spouts for no good reason, back to the drawing board for you.

Nickelodeon
02-11-07, 05:57 AM
That give you a ratio, not a dimension.

IceAgeCivilizations
02-11-07, 06:01 AM
Of what ratio do you speak?

Nickelodeon
02-11-07, 06:03 AM
1/360

IceAgeCivilizations
02-11-07, 06:06 AM
How was that ratio arrived at.

Nickelodeon
02-11-07, 06:07 AM
By dividing 1 by 360. You can divide the cirlce into as many or as few parts as you wish.

IceAgeCivilizations
02-11-07, 06:09 AM
Duh.

Nickelodeon
02-11-07, 06:10 AM
Exactly. So is tells you nothing about the relationship between precession and the Earhs radius, becasue there is none.

IceAgeCivilizations
02-11-07, 06:12 AM
That 1/360 is a ratio is what it is, refuting nothing of what I've said, how silly can you be?

Nickelodeon
02-11-07, 06:17 AM
Not silly enough to belive your gibberish.

IceAgeCivilizations
02-11-07, 06:21 AM
Next.

Dinosaur
02-11-07, 09:23 PM
IceAge: Making disparaging remarks about me, does nothing to support your crazy notions.
The concepts appear to be over your head Dino, hang in there buddy.

You're just an ignorant crackpot who spouts for no good reason, back to the drawing board for you.Those with knowledge of the history of science are aware that Eratosthenes estimated the circumference of the Earth in about 200 BC. He is generally given credit for being the first to do so. If you do not believe me, try a web search.

If the pyramid builders knew the size of the Earth hundreds (thousands) of years earlier, why are they not given credit for having such knowledge? Why is Eratosthemes given credit for being the first to make such an estimate?

Why have you so far being unable to provide a citation supporting your notion that the pyramid builders knew the size of the Earth? Why are you unable to provide a citation showing that some creditable scientist supports your notion that the Dimensions of the Earth can be determined from precession data? Can you provide an explanation for Eratosthemnes being considered the first to estimate the size of the Earth?

I can answer the questions I raised in the previous paragraph. You cannot provide citations or explanations supporting your crackpot ideas because they are nonsense and cannot be supported.

Satyr
02-11-07, 09:33 PM
Want more evidence that IceAgeCivilizatinos is an idiot?

Do a search using his moniker and read.
Get some Kleenex.
The laughing will surely cause you to gush. :D

Bells
02-11-07, 09:37 PM
Come come kiddies.

Lets try and play nice.

Satyr
02-11-07, 09:40 PM
Come come kiddies.

Lets try and play nice.Is pretending like we don’t think IceAgeCivilization is an imbecile part of being “nice” or is it part of the “honesty” of civilized discussion?

IceAgeCivilizations
02-12-07, 05:22 AM
Dino, it is not my fault that you can't grasp a methodology utilizing simple astronomy, geometry, and arithmetic.

I have been congratulated on the finding by many knowledgable folks, but you are obviously not one of them, and that's fine, some just can't or won't grasp it, no problem.

IceAgeCivilizations
02-12-07, 05:24 AM
Saty, how could an "imbecile" have figured out how the ancients measured the Earth by measuring precession?

Dinosaur
02-12-07, 09:39 AM
IceAge:More disparaging remarks and nonsense
Dino, it is not my fault that you can't grasp a methodology utilizing simple astronomy, geometry, and arithmetic

I have been congratulated on the finding by many knowledgable folks, but you are obviously not one of them, and that's fine, some just can't or won't grasp it, no problem..Still neither specific mathematics nor citations to back up your inane concepts.

I bolded a phrase in your post (see above quote). Many suggests 5-10 or more people. Can you provide a link or a citation to two who consider your precession nonsense valid?

I can claim that many think you are a nut and I am a genius, but my making such a claim means nothing. Any jackass who can type can make unsupported statements on the internet.

I have mentioned Eratosthenes as the one given credit for being the first known to have determined the circumference of the Earth. Anyone who can do a search can verify my claim relating to him. Since he lived at least 1000 years after the pyramiid builders, I have good reason to believe that they did not have a clue about the size of the Earth.

You cannot show any support for your silly notions.


Again I request some valid support. What I will get instead of a citation or relevant link will be more disparageing remarks or bulls**t. You canno find any support and you are unwilling to admit that your concepts are nonsense.

You are probably ignorant enough to not realize that you are spouting nonsense. Put up or shut up! Either show some supporting evidence or a relevant link or else go away.

IceAgeCivilizations
02-12-07, 11:21 AM
Your little rant is a waste of your hot air as Eratosthenes, measuring shadows, attained about a 5% accuracy, while this method goes to within 0.5%, also, it's borne out with the dimensions of the GP and the precession numbers in ancient legends, and it's obviously the ancient forerunner of our modern mapping and timekeeping system, so just save it.

Dinosaur
02-13-07, 12:58 AM
IceAge: Again you post without providing any support for your weird notions.

As per my last post: Put up or shut up!!

Still no mention of why Eratosthemes (circa 200BC) is credited with being the first to devise a method of determining the length of the circumference of the Earth. Still no link or citation indicating that the pyramid builders had a clue about the dimensions of the Earth.

If you cannot provide a link or other citation supporting your claim, you should admit that your idea is nonsense or merely slink away without posting on this topic anymore.

Again I state that the pyramid builders had no clue to the dimensions of the Earth. Again, I claim that neither the circumference nor the diameter of the Earth can be determined from Precession data.

Nickelodeon
02-13-07, 02:32 AM
Saty, how could an "imbecile" have figured out how the ancients measured the Earth by measuring precession?

Considering there IS no relationship between precession and the radius of the Earth, it could ony take an imbecile.

IceAgeCivilizations
02-13-07, 08:23 AM
Ophiolite agrees that the ancients were measuring precession, as evidenced with the precession numbers cited by Hertha von Dechend and Giorgio de Santillana in Hamlet's Mill, so my finding just explains how those numbers were developed.

Nickelodeon
10-22-07, 01:56 PM
IceAge: I just noticed the following question from one of your previous posts.It requires little more than observation of the North Star over a period of a few months to a year or so to discover that it always indicates True North.

Even cultures without a compass can determine True North via Polaris without having a clue about solar system dynamics.
True, except back then Polaris wasn't necessarily at true north, due to precession. But the idea is right, it would just be another point (that may or may not have a star located there.)

charles brough
10-27-07, 10:55 AM
The Hindu yugas of time are mulitples of 432,000 years, and in Norse legend, groups of 800 warriors of Valhalla entered through 540 doors, total 432,000 warriors, and the Great Pyramid's dimensions are a reduction of the Earth's dimensions by a factor of 43,200, so what is this connection in the ancient world, was it coincidence, or could they measure the Earth, and if so, how did they do it.

So, we are into numerology now, huh? Or is there an implication that “alien spacemen” did it? I doubt that there are any archeological engineers here in this forum interested in that math. Just as well, because their answer would most assuredly be mundane. Both Ice Age man and later the Egyptians all used the simpler calculating ability they had in their own times.

Charles, http://humanpurpose.simplenet.com

kairologic
03-12-08, 12:39 AM
Want to know where the cubit came from? The furlong? Here:

:D


Common Ground: A Dash of Music and an Inch of Sun

The Egyptians related the course of cosmic chronology to physical structures by the passage of our Sun’s motion through the sky (and by Earth’s annual orbital spin). Witnessing one whole degree of sky, with gnomonic and/or sextant (astrolabe) referencing and with tally marks, they were enabled to foster the origins of geometrical art, modern physics and biology, and various standards of weights and measures. According to their observations of total solar standstills throughout any given year, 5 days (2 solstices of nearly 2.5-day-long/60-hour standstills each) were discounted from the apparent (synodic) orbit of 360 days. This supplied the 360 degree compass system, and is conveniently a multiple to lowest common denominations of division by the digits 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, (six is a larger 3), (8 is a larger 4), and 9, which skips seven – leading us to better comprehension of the 7th day “rest” of the solar deity in universal (mathematical) creation, and the symbolic mystique of that scythe shaped figure 7 in early writing. The geometrical correlations to this science rendered the common religious symmetries of the circle (one point or one whole), the vesica piscis (2 pointed fish or eye), the triangle (3 points either “upward” or “downward”), the cross (4 points or a tetrahedron – the original three dimensional platonic solid), the pentalpha (5 points representing the Golden Ratio or a pyramid), the Star of David (6 points or two equally inverted triangles), and the globally Gnostic octo-and-dodecahedral starbursts (8 and 12 points respectfully). Masterfully utilizing astronomy for rational arithmetic, the precession of the equinoxes (wherein the night sky shifts completely over 25920 years) was fit into Egyptian geo-metrical divisions by according 72 subdivisions, in every single degree of a day’s cycle, to obtain that large total number of the celestial Heavens. The Hebrew named these astro-horological units “barleycorn,” and later, “Helakim;” each unit lasted for 3.333 of today’s seconds.

Here is a fundamental example of an easily perfected scientific instrument to discover the speed of sound: being that shifts in visible light are transmitted almost instantaneously, one man can stand at a distance to another and shout at the same time he waves his hand, while the observing man calculates how long it takes for that shout to travel. The observer could use a metronome constructed of a flow control screw-valve (which the Egyptians invented for irrigation, levitation, steam power, and transmission) which would tap a keg full of liquid set accurately to drip once per Helakim. The result is that a numerically symbolic unit of length (distance) measure could be derived simply by the shouting man retreating from or advancing to the observer until they coordinate a particular distance of rope-knotted “degrees;” and, the speed of sound in air would then have a rational distance per Helakim associated to it. The speed of sound is 1080 feet per second at freezing (0 degrees Celcius), and, this works out to be an auditory “speed” of 3600 feet per Helakim. Being that one hour contains 3600 seconds, it could be easily postulated that the creation of the second hand was an action relative to this measure, originally manifested from close attention to the dance of stars and the Moon above.

In the Old Testament, the 1/8th-mile “furlong” (or agricultural furrow-long which later evolve into the ‘acre’) of 660-ft/ 440-modern-cubits was prominent in usage; it is also currently the “E” note, in Hertzian notation, of Western music (with 440 arguably the ‘A’ note). Being that the angels of Biblical metaphor were equated with song and the Word of God, and that acoustical pressure is the only real difference between instantaneous light waves and slower material existence, the ‘Word’ truly did “part the waters” as the evolution of frequencies, and henceforth, elemental chemistry carried onward. To really understand this separation of light and sound waves (and oneness of them all), and even of heavy material forms much more divided into unseen particle-waves, was quite the aim of many esoteric alchemical studies. ‘Angel’ is translatable to ‘angle,’ in terms of word meaning; representative of a being (a geometer) cognizant of the irrationality of light, and the opposed rationality of human-created number, weight, and measure, the word was synonymous with scholar, guardian, craftsman, teacher, visionary, and more. Revelations 21:17 says “and he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.

The Royal Cubit has an interesting root of formulation in furlong numerals. Divisible by 20, and also by 33 (an often-mentioned number in sacred geometry representing otherwise irrational and Holy or Masonic thirds in decimal systems), and, being a 5:4 ratio ‘E’ note musical product of the obscure and ancient solfeggio “Mi” note of 528hz, the furlong-number of 660 has many peculiar ties. The number 660 is even an 11/6 ratio for the common cross-cultural (geomantic) number 360, which tells much allegory in and of itself, and can easily justify the conception of our musical frequency system as based on our annual orbit – hence the general keynote 360 Hz ‘F’ of ancient Greece and Asia. At 72 degrees Fahrenheit (termed as the perfect human comfort zone), a number once again associated to the 25920-year Precession of the Equinoxes and to the numerical Hebrew Gematria equivalent of “YHVH” ( the original spelling of Yahweh or Jesus), as well as symbolic of fifth-divisions of 360 degrees (the 72 degree separations of pentalpha points), the speed of sound is 1130.81 feet per second, because wave (sound) speed is dependent upon pressure/temperature in the medium. This amount, divided by the curious 660, gives 20.56 inches of measure, which is just under the length of Biblical Royal Cubit proportion. The Cubit, however, was divided by 7 “palms” of 4 “fingers” each (much like the 4-week lunar 13 month calendar), and inasmuch, it is affirmed that this product would be rounded up to Moses’ proclaimed 20.6” unit in said system. The fact that this particular measure can be fabricated from anywhere in the world by two people and some equipment, to also derive this temperature measurement system of old, is of even further value. This might have led to the eventual popularization of the German “Fahrenheit” notation through the feverish and complete old-world dominations of Alexander the Great (an pre-Germanic Aryan and esteemed Grecian conqueror).

If the Royal Cubit came from calculations of geometrical distancing and sound, so did the inch. One other standard of Cubit division was by the “construction remen” standard of 20 notches (and its further 1/16th binary subdivisions named ”Ro”). In this tradition was the Gizeh pyramid built up to a height of 320 Cubits (like the 320 Ro within a Cubit). As above, so below. After time, the Royal Cubit made way for the contemporary Cubit of 24 Fingers (instead of 28), measuring 18 total inches, or a musical-termed dominant “perfect fifth” in relation to the Roman “foot;” and, the same second-hand time (instead of Hekalim) that begot this whole schema also made its gradual way into international decree by a Papal Bull from Pope Gregory the XIII. The speed of sound, after all, had to relatively match the numerations of Heavenly motions, so instead of 3600 feet per Helakim, it became 1080 feet per tick (second). Seconds also split up the day by the 12 major Signs, their halves, and the 60-within-60 units in each Sign. The Star of David contains points separated each by 60 degrees, and 60 is a special number because it is the lowest one divisible by all numbers through 12 (minus 7 and 11 – the fabled digits). The 18-inch Cubit became “Lunar” because of its relation to the 18-year lunar “Saros,” wherein the phase and proximity of the moon would be exactly recycled yet one third around the world distanced from the original observation. Three (holy number) of these periods comprises one “exiligmos” (“turn of the wheel” in Greek) of 54 years, and by this magic math one can precisely predict eclipse cycles and tidal changes, because the moon will be exacted back to 3/3rds its rotation (full circle) in the same phase, altitude, azimuth, and even distance (between perigee and apogee) from Earth.

The rosary of Christianity and the mala of Hindu or Vedic belief systems is made of 108 beads, a multiple of 54, relative to the (startling) 1080 foot-per-second speed of sound at freezing – relating the passage of vibratory waves through a compacted gas medium, the 1080-mile radius of the moon, the 108000 mile 1/8th radius of the Sun, and 1/24th the precession of the equinoxes. Henceforth, the overwhelmingly future-safe popularity of an 18-inch, 24 digit Cubit over the original was warranted for geomancers, Yogi, and Magi alike. To mathe-magicians, anyhow, 12s and 9s are quite definitive for cosmological theology. In fact, after the furlong and the Royal Cubit were mostly dispensed of, the blockbuster key tonality for music became the 108Hz ‘A’ note, mythically (or not so much) labeled the “solar tone.” The beautiful sound of mathematical symmetry in music performed in concert pitch 432Hz or ‘A3’ tuning was taken to quite rapidly by the artistic community, and the Grecian “Pythagorean Brotherhood” even considered the knowledge behind it quite empowering and critical in order to gain leverage over self and over community. They swore their lives upon this knowledge, and upon the rational harmonies of a sacred geometrical symbol called the “Tetractys,” also related to Egyptian/Hebrew Gematria and Vedic numerology, and protected the ancient science coherent to the mystery of the Golden Spiral (and its geometrically symbolic pentacle – similar to how 72 x 5 = 360), as well as the soon-to-be-added revelatory “Number of the Beast” pertaining to the living, geometrical Cosmos: 216 (108 x 2) is 6 cubed (6x6x6). Whoever possessed this knowledge was a threat to power mongering religio-domination tyrants.

Mayan priest-Kings (high shamans), on the other side of the world, also observed these cycles and, similarly, kept the profound knowledge to themselves. Remaining records of Mayan astronomical majesty scarcely recognize the coveted eclipse prediction sciences. Kings had much political and economical power to gain from their own familiar kin group secrets. The Egyptian laborer’s (or geometer’s) one-inch “remen” measure of the Royal Cubit was analogous to the astronomically-correlated vegisimal (20 point) numbering system of the ancient Mayan people of Mesoamerica, too. Even the Mayan “xo’ot” construction/distancing unit of 144 feet is a numerical mind-blowing standard in multiplicity of that famous Egyptian/Indian/Hebrew ‘72.’ When the 12-inch, 12 digit foot measure was soon to come in Rome (an evolution of this science), the Maya were not too far behind in the game. 144 is 12 squared (and also the twelfth successive numeral in the Fibonacci sequence relative to Phi), and seems to be a fantastic way to encode some of the most brilliant research executed by the human species, yet these unexplainably alien numbers, to the rest of their mostly asymmetrical arithmetic, can only relate to the sorcerer’s secrets of the sun-moon conjunctions (or alignments) and the orbital tilt the Earth has in relation to it all.

Inquiring minds can always discover the truth: it was encoded in their “long count” only (their mathematical divisions of the observed precession of the equinoxes); 144000 days (400 years) is a Bak’tun, strikingly similar (surely astrological in symbolism) to the 144000 “survivors” in Revelations, and, also the length of time it takes for the Earth’s core (and magnetism) to rotate once around. This is binary, of course, like the makeup of so many things natural, as each 400-year Bak’tun (literally marking global historical paradigm shifts in Mayan philosophy) is actually 1/64th the time it takes for a Precession of the Equinoxes (25920 years). Again, as in many natural entities and/or events, there are connections to be made. Even their culturally unique 13/20 time measurement system of the 260-day long Tzol’kin calendar (differing from the Egypto-Euro12/60 system) might be called relative to the far Easterners; the 660-foot furlong unit of inch-conception, multiplied by two, equals 1320. It is not hard to deduce that a people would wish to create either a 20-point (660) or 10-point (1320) basis of mathematics, because the decimal and vegisimal systems are both easily counted on fingers and/or toes, each system requires simple input to produce larger multiplications or create scientific notation (power functions), and, as so coveted by the Kaballists, the Magi, and the Pythagorean Brotherhood (and acclaimed by Socrates), the 1:2:3:4 ratio triangular design of the mathematical wonder called “Tetractys” (and YHVH) adds right up to the human number 10.

Fu Xi’s now popular I-Ching, a geometrical representation of Taoist Gnostic understanding and astronomical observation, is either seen as an eight-trigram circle or as a 64 hexgram circle. Human DNA contains 64 codons for genetic inscription. Every biological thing is somewhat diamagnetic (repelling magnetic fields and creating electrical charges as a product), and so, at least at the Biophotonic level, must be affected by these various “magi-cal” cycles. Geomagnetic hourhands and minutehands truly do alter the course of life on Earth – it’s just up to us to decide how we wish to self-consciously express it. Many Asian people still celebrate a 13-moon calendar, closer in precision to tidal motions, wildlife tracking or farming, and even human menstruation cycles. Music, measure, architecture, dance, gearing, and electronics are just some of the ways we’ve already integrated these strange numbers into our existence, and a common person can find them in any school, car, electrical system, or market place; these days, many of those who “know” are always seeking like-minded correspondence and partnership, and putting the signs right in front of us. The cosmic inch is multinational because of ground, sound, water, and the Light of the alchemical “One Thing” – that is the Sun, and all material elements because of it.



~Chronos is divided Light and matter; Kairos is curved Truth and cosmic ether; both are the equal and opposingly diametric measures of life itself. The grass is greener nowhere more than right here in the already Eternal Heavens, and we’re meant to enjoy it through Craft. Creation never ended. We are all one.~

Brendan Bombaci

Eddy
03-12-08, 08:28 AM
Want to know where the cubit came from? The furlong? Here:

:D


Common Ground: A Dash of Music and an Inch of Sun

The Egyptians related the course of cosmic chronology to physical structures by the passage of our Sun’s motion through the sky (and by Earth’s annual orbital spin). Witnessing one whole degree of sky, with gnomonic and/or sextant (astrolabe) referencing and with tally marks, they were enabled to foster the origins of geometrical art, modern physics and biology, and various standards of weights and measures. According to their observations of total solar standstills throughout any given year, 5 days (2 solstices of nearly 2.5-day-long/60-hour standstills each) were discounted from the apparent (synodic) orbit of 360 days. This supplied the 360 degree compass system, and is conveniently a multiple to lowest common denominations of division by the digits 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, (six is a larger 3), (8 is a larger 4), and 9, which skips seven – leading us to better comprehension of the 7th day “rest” of the solar deity in universal (mathematical) creation, and the symbolic mystique of that scythe shaped figure 7 in early writing. The geometrical correlations to this science rendered the common religious symmetries of the circle (one point or one whole), the vesica piscis (2 pointed fish or eye), the triangle (3 points either “upward” or “downward”), the cross (4 points or a tetrahedron – the original three dimensional platonic solid), the pentalpha (5 points representing the Golden Ratio or a pyramid), the Star of David (6 points or two equally inverted triangles), and the globally Gnostic octo-and-dodecahedral starbursts (8 and 12 points respectfully). Masterfully utilizing astronomy for rational arithmetic, the precession of the equinoxes (wherein the night sky shifts completely over 25920 years) was fit into Egyptian geo-metrical divisions by according 72 subdivisions, in every single degree of a day’s cycle, to obtain that large total number of the celestial Heavens. The Hebrew named these astro-horological units “barleycorn,” and later, “Helakim;” each unit lasted for 3.333 of today’s seconds.

Here is a fundamental example of an easily perfected scientific instrument to discover the speed of sound: being that shifts in visible light are transmitted almost instantaneously, one man can stand at a distance to another and shout at the same time he waves his hand, while the observing man calculates how long it takes for that shout to travel. The observer could use a metronome constructed of a flow control screw-valve (which the Egyptians invented for irrigation, levitation, steam power, and transmission) which would tap a keg full of liquid set accurately to drip once per Helakim. The result is that a numerically symbolic unit of length (distance) measure could be derived simply by the shouting man retreating from or advancing to the observer until they coordinate a particular distance of rope-knotted “degrees;” and, the speed of sound in air would then have a rational distance per Helakim associated to it. The speed of sound is 1080 feet per second at freezing (0 degrees Celcius), and, this works out to be an auditory “speed” of 3600 feet per Helakim. Being that one hour contains 3600 seconds, it could be easily postulated that the creation of the second hand was an action relative to this measure, originally manifested from close attention to the dance of stars and the Moon above.

In the Old Testament, the 1/8th-mile “furlong” (or agricultural furrow-long which later evolve into the ‘acre’) of 660-ft/ 440-modern-cubits was prominent in usage; it is also currently the “E” note, in Hertzian notation, of Western music (with 440 arguably the ‘A’ note). Being that the angels of Biblical metaphor were equated with song and the Word of God, and that acoustical pressure is the only real difference between instantaneous light waves and slower material existence, the ‘Word’ truly did “part the waters” as the evolution of frequencies, and henceforth, elemental chemistry carried onward. To really understand this separation of light and sound waves (and oneness of them all), and even of heavy material forms much more divided into unseen particle-waves, was quite the aim of many esoteric alchemical studies. ‘Angel’ is translatable to ‘angle,’ in terms of word meaning; representative of a being (a geometer) cognizant of the irrationality of light, and the opposed rationality of human-created number, weight, and measure, the word was synonymous with scholar, guardian, craftsman, teacher, visionary, and more. Revelations 21:17 says “and he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.

The Royal Cubit has an interesting root of formulation in furlong numerals. Divisible by 20, and also by 33 (an often-mentioned number in sacred geometry representing otherwise irrational and Holy or Masonic thirds in decimal systems), and, being a 5:4 ratio ‘E’ note musical product of the obscure and ancient solfeggio “Mi” note of 528hz, the furlong-number of 660 has many peculiar ties. The number 660 is even an 11/6 ratio for the common cross-cultural (geomantic) number 360, which tells much allegory in and of itself, and can easily justify the conception of our musical frequency system as based on our annual orbit – hence the general keynote 360 Hz ‘F’ of ancient Greece and Asia. At 72 degrees Fahrenheit (termed as the perfect human comfort zone), a number once again associated to the 25920-year Precession of the Equinoxes and to the numerical Hebrew Gematria equivalent of “YHVH” ( the original spelling of Yahweh or Jesus), as well as symbolic of fifth-divisions of 360 degrees (the 72 degree separations of pentalpha points), the speed of sound is 1130.81 feet per second, because wave (sound) speed is dependent upon pressure/temperature in the medium. This amount, divided by the curious 660, gives 20.56 inches of measure, which is just under the length of Biblical Royal Cubit proportion. The Cubit, however, was divided by 7 “palms” of 4 “fingers” each (much like the 4-week lunar 13 month calendar), and inasmuch, it is affirmed that this product would be rounded up to Moses’ proclaimed 20.6” unit in said system. The fact that this particular measure can be fabricated from anywhere in the world by two people and some equipment, to also derive this temperature measurement system of old, is of even further value. This might have led to the eventual popularization of the German “Fahrenheit” notation through the feverish and complete old-world dominations of Alexander the Great (an pre-Germanic Aryan and esteemed Grecian conqueror).

If the Royal Cubit came from calculations of geometrical distancing and sound, so did the inch. One other standard of Cubit division was by the “construction remen” standard of 20 notches (and its further 1/16th binary subdivisions named ”Ro”). In this tradition was the Gizeh pyramid built up to a height of 320 Cubits (like the 320 Ro within a Cubit). As above, so below. After time, the Royal Cubit made way for the contemporary Cubit of 24 Fingers (instead of 28), measuring 18 total inches, or a musical-termed dominant “perfect fifth” in relation to the Roman “foot;” and, the same second-hand time (instead of Hekalim) that begot this whole schema also made its gradual way into international decree by a Papal Bull from Pope Gregory the XIII. The speed of sound, after all, had to relatively match the numerations of Heavenly motions, so instead of 3600 feet per Helakim, it became 1080 feet per tick (second). Seconds also split up the day by the 12 major Signs, their halves, and the 60-within-60 units in each Sign. The Star of David contains points separated each by 60 degrees, and 60 is a special number because it is the lowest one divisible by all numbers through 12 (minus 7 and 11 – the fabled digits). The 18-inch Cubit became “Lunar” because of its relation to the 18-year lunar “Saros,” wherein the phase and proximity of the moon would be exactly recycled yet one third around the world distanced from the original observation. Three (holy number) of these periods comprises one “exiligmos” (“turn of the wheel” in Greek) of 54 years, and by this magic math one can precisely predict eclipse cycles and tidal changes, because the moon will be exacted back to 3/3rds its rotation (full circle) in the same phase, altitude, azimuth, and even distance (between perigee and apogee) from Earth.

The rosary of Christianity and the mala of Hindu or Vedic belief systems is made of 108 beads, a multiple of 54, relative to the (startling) 1080 foot-per-second speed of sound at freezing – relating the passage of vibratory waves through a compacted gas medium, the 1080-mile radius of the moon, the 108000 mile 1/8th radius of the Sun, and 1/24th the precession of the equinoxes. Henceforth, the overwhelmingly future-safe popularity of an 18-inch, 24 digit Cubit over the original was warranted for geomancers, Yogi, and Magi alike. To mathe-magicians, anyhow, 12s and 9s are quite definitive for cosmological theology. In fact, after the furlong and the Royal Cubit were mostly dispensed of, the blockbuster key tonality for music became the 108Hz ‘A’ note, mythically (or not so much) labeled the “solar tone.” The beautiful sound of mathematical symmetry in music performed in concert pitch 432Hz or ‘A3’ tuning was taken to quite rapidly by the artistic community, and the Grecian “Pythagorean Brotherhood” even considered the knowledge behind it quite empowering and critical in order to gain leverage over self and over community. They swore their lives upon this knowledge, and upon the rational harmonies of a sacred geometrical symbol called the “Tetractys,” also related to Egyptian/Hebrew Gematria and Vedic numerology, and protected the ancient science coherent to the mystery of the Golden Spiral (and its geometrically symbolic pentacle – similar to how 72 x 5 = 360), as well as the soon-to-be-added revelatory “Number of the Beast” pertaining to the living, geometrical Cosmos: 216 (108 x 2) is 6 cubed (6x6x6). Whoever possessed this knowledge was a threat to power mongering religio-domination tyrants.

Mayan priest-Kings (high shamans), on the other side of the world, also observed these cycles and, similarly, kept the profound knowledge to themselves. Remaining records of Mayan astronomical majesty scarcely recognize the coveted eclipse prediction sciences. Kings had much political and economical power to gain from their own familiar kin group secrets. The Egyptian laborer’s (or geometer’s) one-inch “remen” measure of the Royal Cubit was analogous to the astronomically-correlated vegisimal (20 point) numbering system of the ancient Mayan people of Mesoamerica, too. Even the Mayan “xo’ot” construction/distancing unit of 144 feet is a numerical mind-blowing standard in multiplicity of that famous Egyptian/Indian/Hebrew ‘72.’ When the 12-inch, 12 digit foot measure was soon to come in Rome (an evolution of this science), the Maya were not too far behind in the game. 144 is 12 squared (and also the twelfth successive numeral in the Fibonacci sequence relative to Phi), and seems to be a fantastic way to encode some of the most brilliant research executed by the human species, yet these unexplainably alien numbers, to the rest of their mostly asymmetrical arithmetic, can only relate to the sorcerer’s secrets of the sun-moon conjunctions (or alignments) and the orbital tilt the Earth has in relation to it all.

Inquiring minds can always discover the truth: it was encoded in their “long count” only (their mathematical divisions of the observed precession of the equinoxes); 144000 days (400 years) is a Bak’tun, strikingly similar (surely astrological in symbolism) to the 144000 “survivors” in Revelations, and, also the length of time it takes for the Earth’s core (and magnetism) to rotate once around. This is binary, of course, like the makeup of so many things natural, as each 400-year Bak’tun (literally marking global historical paradigm shifts in Mayan philosophy) is actually 1/64th the time it takes for a Precession of the Equinoxes (25920 years). Again, as in many natural entities and/or events, there are connections to be made. Even their culturally unique 13/20 time measurement system of the 260-day long Tzol’kin calendar (differing from the Egypto-Euro12/60 system) might be called relative to the far Easterners; the 660-foot furlong unit of inch-conception, multiplied by two, equals 1320. It is not hard to deduce that a people would wish to create either a 20-point (660) or 10-point (1320) basis of mathematics, because the decimal and vegisimal systems are both easily counted on fingers and/or toes, each system requires simple input to produce larger multiplications or create scientific notation (power functions), and, as so coveted by the Kaballists, the Magi, and the Pythagorean Brotherhood (and acclaimed by Socrates), the 1:2:3:4 ratio triangular design of the mathematical wonder called “Tetractys” (and YHVH) adds right up to the human number 10.

Fu Xi’s now popular I-Ching, a geometrical representation of Taoist Gnostic understanding and astronomical observation, is either seen as an eight-trigram circle or as a 64 hexgram circle. Human DNA contains 64 codons for genetic inscription. Every biological thing is somewhat diamagnetic (repelling magnetic fields and creating electrical charges as a product), and so, at least at the Biophotonic level, must be affected by these various “magi-cal” cycles. Geomagnetic hourhands and minutehands truly do alter the course of life on Earth – it’s just up to us to decide how we wish to self-consciously express it. Many Asian people still celebrate a 13-moon calendar, closer in precision to tidal motions, wildlife tracking or farming, and even human menstruation cycles. Music, measure, architecture, dance, gearing, and electronics are just some of the ways we’ve already integrated these strange numbers into our existence, and a common person can find them in any school, car, electrical system, or market place; these days, many of those who “know” are always seeking like-minded correspondence and partnership, and putting the signs right in front of us. The cosmic inch is multinational because of ground, sound, water, and the Light of the alchemical “One Thing” – that is the Sun, and all material elements because of it.



~Chronos is divided Light and matter; Kairos is curved Truth and cosmic ether; both are the equal and opposingly diametric measures of life itself. The grass is greener nowhere more than right here in the already Eternal Heavens, and we’re meant to enjoy it through Craft. Creation never ended. We are all one.~

Brendan Bombaci



In your honest opinion is this much ado about nothing?


If everything is in some kind of relationship with everything only then can nothing- ness not exist.



or:

Are you, or have you ever been, intimately involved with a bass fiddle player?

Fraggle Rocker
03-12-08, 12:35 PM
It proves that the ancients were navigating all over the globe during the Ice Age.No it does not. It has been suggested that using the science (primarily astronomy) and technology (Bronze Age) available at the time, observations and measurements could have been taken to make it possible to calculate the diameter of the planet to that many digits of accuracy.

nietzschefan
03-12-08, 01:21 PM
Ice age was banned like a year ago?

Fraggle Rocker
03-12-08, 07:13 PM
Ice age was banned like a year ago?Oh sorry! I didn't notice this thead was the victim of a necromancer.

kairologic
05-14-08, 04:06 PM
In your honest opinion is this much ado about nothing?




or:

Are you, or have you ever been, intimately involved with a bass fiddle player?



Wow, fella. Did you even read the article? It completely explains the astrological origin of the number 432, and it's various multiples/overtones such as 144, 216, 72 (one degree, in years, of sky precession), 288, etc. In fact, 432*6= 2592, which, as we should all know in here, is 10% of 25920 (precession of the equinoxes). Aside from this, the C note should simply be 256, because of it's binary nature being so absolutely simple to tune by any musician let alone instrument maker. It was in Orphic lore, let alone by mention of King David and his "Psalm 108" being so curiously relative, numerically, to the A1 if A3 is 432. Do the math and do the research and you'll find more than history and arguments over what sounds better, which reichminister said what, how many people have had their voices destroyed by A440+, and so forth. It's embedded in the frequencies of celestial events, let alone Platonic Solid angles and Tetractys-bonded harmonics. This level of physics is fairly easy -- it just takes intuition towards where rhythm came from, how it evolved into an understanding that higher rhythms are tones, how to measure those into timing signatures (set a standard timing mechanism to the day abiding by patterns already observed in the Heavens), and which ones are perfected with Cymatics (Chladni plate demonstrations) to create beautiful symmetrical mandalas by which one could encode said music for Aeons to come... in sacred geometry and in religion and in Solomon's "...numerus, pondus, mensura" -- describing God as such.

Thanks for this thread!! I have been so happy to participate, because of my passion in the field of ethnomusicology and archaeoastronomy.

Might I suggest (unitone dot org slash naturesword)? It's fantastic if you've no knowledge of these numbers in sacred geometry or how many thousands of years humankind has known those angles. It's fantastic anyhow. I saved the whole site to my traveldrive.

Light and Truth,
Brendan Bombaci
(google me)

kairologic
05-14-08, 04:41 PM
Psalm 108:1-2 " (1) My heart is steadfast, O God; I will sing and make music with all my soul. (2) Awake, harp and lyre! I will awaken the dawn."

Isn't it funny that King David (Master of the Lyre) 'wrote' Psalm 108, and, that 108 is the A1 note in music when the A3 note is 432, as it was in ancient Greece, India, & Persia? Tada! Anybody ever read the Solomonic/ Hermetic/ Alchemical discourse called "The Emerald Tablet: Alchemy for Personal Transformation" or The Hermetic Museum's "Alchemy & Mysticism"? Both are totally academic, incredibly enthralling, and outrageously educating/initiating to the art of geomancy (let alone dietary/mental alchemy) and using Craftsmanship to display its character through music, architecture, visual art, food, and more.

"You'd better get yourself connected - the writing's on the wall; and if your mind's neglected - stumble you might fall, stumble you might fall" -Stereo MCs