''Whose God Is Responsible" for the conditions of the world that we live in. Each religious denomination, especially the three organizations namely Judaism , Christianity , And Islaam , will claim that their God is loving caring, and in control of everything that happens in all the boundless universes. While these Rabbis , Preaches and Imaams stand before their congregations whether it is on Friday , Saturday or Sunday. They repeat over and over again, God's promise of paradise when you die , God's concern with all of his creatures and creations. Never once do they address the daily condition of the world; The mistakes in creation, the misfits, the deformed, the Criminally insane. All of this is blamed on one species in creation called "the Devil"

So whose REALLY responsible?????

''Whose God Is Responsible" for the conditions of the world that we live in. Each religious denomination, especially the three organizations namely Judaism , Christianity , And Islaam , will claim that their God is loving caring, and in control of everything that happens in all the boundless universes. While these Rabbis , Preaches and Imaams stand before their congregations whether it is on Friday , Saturday or Sunday. They repeat over and over again, God's promise of paradise when you die , God's concern with all of his creatures and creations. Never once do they address the daily condition of the world; The mistakes in creation, the misfits, the deformed, the Criminally insane. All of this is blamed on one species in creation called "the Devil"

So whose REALLY responsible?????

i wasn't aware that anyone or any group of people owned god.

Whoever's god sucks at being understood by people in the past times. Blame the people that rewrote the books and the translators of ancient history during ancient times who had to rewrite words in many different languages. No one book tells what to do when the voices you hear and the morals you have come face to face with another god. Usually one of them wins, but they would still show each other respect. Not like in todays society where respect is only earned amongst our beliefs, it would be shared mutually among the minds.

i wasn't aware that anyone or any group of people owned god.

Now you know just like I do that no matter what the denomination or faith, unless you already believe in multiple gods, they don't just say that their God is "a god" but he is "THE GOD".

Whoever's god sucks at being understood by people in the past times. Blame the people that rewrote the books and the translators of ancient history during ancient times who had to rewrite words in many different languages. No one book tells what to do when the voices you hear and the morals you have come face to face with another god. Usually one of them wins, but they would still show each other respect. Not like in todays society where respect is only earned amongst our beliefs, it would be shared mutually among the minds.

That cool. But which one of these gods is responsible for HIV/AIDS? Which is one is responsible for babies being aborted after birth?

The 'problem of evil' is a fundamental conundrum in philosophical theology. It's especially annoying for monotheistic religions, which insist that there's only one divine power.

Polytheistic religions find it easier to imagine supernatural principles sometimes operating at cross-purposes, to contradictory ends. Ancient Greek heroes sometimes found themselves to be playthings in competition between several rather amoral gods. Gods and goddesses had their own Olympian goals in mind and typically weren't especially concerned about the fortune of their chosen human instruments. But sometimes the divinities might find themselves impressed by the heroic courage with which a human being played his or her role, thus winning them divine favor.

It's easier to sort things out in more ethically-focused Zoroastrian-style dualistic religion. They imagined two divine principles, one of them pure good, the other pure evil. There's a heavenly war underway between them and it's mankind's duty to enlist on one side or the other. In this model, all the good stuff in life is the work of God, while all the bad stuff can be explained as the work of the demonic side, the Devil's doing.

But monotheistic religion makes things more difficult, at least if its believers want to insist that their One God is absolutely good. If God is Good, then where does all the bad come from? Monotheists don't accept an evil Second God who can account for it. But if pain and misfortune come from the One God, then how can that god truly be said to be good?

Theology has been struggling with that one for as long as there's been theological speculation.

They've interpreted suffering as God's test of man's faith. Or they've imported dualism's evil second god, while stoutly insisting that he's not a second god at all, he's something less, an angelic rebel in heaven. Another line of casuistry has human beings playing the rebel role, and effectively the role of the second god, with all the bad stuff the result of the primal man and woman's rebellion against God and their consequent ejection from paradise. Others insist that while the one transcendent God is absolutely good, timeless and ideal, our earthly incarnation down here in the world of flux and change and matter has somehow corrupted the heavenly goodness. Now it's matter that takes the role of the evil second god, so our goal should be to rise above this fallen world of the flesh and reascend to the spiritual plane.

i wasn't aware that anyone or any group of people owned god.

You didn't know that? Oh sure, the Christians say that there is only one God, and that he's Christian. If fact, the ten commandments tell you not to worship any other gods, which wouldn't be the case if they were all the same.

God, it's a word, 3 relegions are with it, but, who's god? god, is the creator, who started the univerce and everything, god is who vreated us, God, is beyond our minds, if we can't even know what's on our univerce, or, even what's on our planet, or even understand our sun fully, and how it works, how can we judge if god exist or not, and, how can we know if god exists or not.
ok, god gave us free-will, and a mind, (i'm not using the word brain, because brain is the scientific word, of that part that all mamamls, and most creatures have) anyway, we have the free-will, to do bad or good, wars ? who cause wars? = us. babies aboarded? who do it? = us. killing? = us, etc etc... build? =us. care? = us. love? = us...etc etc...
what ever happenes, it is US.
and there's also someone to blame from many of our acts, devil? why not to beleive that we're not alone in the univerce, because, we're not alone defferently, how ever we reach in sciences and how ever, and how much we know, we still don't know anything, as you see, when a baby is born, he learns to laugh, before he be mad, he learnes to love, before he hate, humans are born good, but, then they start to be bad, we have the free-will, we make bad things, and good things, that's the free-will, no one controll us and move us like robots, i mean, god don't move us as robots, i mean, you see there's beleivers, thre's atheists, there's bad, there's beelivers,there's good people etc...

what's IMHO

just something wondering about, when talking to atheist, for example in the begenning of univerce, means, mostly theorotical, when i say there's a god, he says it's a very stupid idea, why is it? and why not he's theory a stupid idea? well, doesnt matter. :PP

what's IMHO

just something wondering about, when talking to atheist, for example in the begenning of univerce, means, mostly theorotical, when i say there's a god, he says it's a very stupid idea, why is it? and why not he's theory a stupid idea? well, doesnt matter. :PP

He thinks he is self reliant and is not accepting of the fact that god didn't put you here to argue his existence. Or because you believe a "physical" being made the universe. Both points are mute as we would not be able to ask these questions if the word "God" itself did not exist. You could not even attempt to explain God to your grandmother if the word itself did not exist. Try it Go up to your grandmother and explain God without using the word or bringing a book. Might as well tell her every detail of your life story. That is the only way I could explain it and nobody wants their grandmother to know their most intimate details...

As a matter of fact I could explain God to someone without both using the word "God" or describing Him as It's impossible for Him to have descriptions.

As a matter of fact I could explain God to someone without both using the word "God" or describing Him as It's impossible for Him to have descriptions.


Ok...You do realize what you just said, makes no sense at all, right?

Why not? I said I could explain God not describe Him by making references.

Why not? I said I could explain God not describe Him by making references.


What you said was..You could explain "God" without using his/her/its name, or describing said "God".

I'd like to see you do this.

It's not as complicated as you seem to think it is and by not describing Him I mean size, shape, color as in the pen is blue.

your not starting off very well. I'm only less convinced. LOL LOL LOL

It's not as complicated as you seem to think it is and by not describing Him I mean size, shape, color as in the pen is blue.


Ok then..As I asked in my last post...Please explain this entity, without giving it a title or a description.

Well I'm not going to use descriptions as in size, color, shape having said that the entity is actually infinite this entity doesn't have a beginning and it's impossible that there was once a time this entity didn't exist. This entity doesn't go through any change that means automatically this entity is not in time literally.

Well I'm not going to use descriptions as in size, color, shape having said that the entity is actually infinite this entity doesn't have a beginning and it's impossible that there was once a time this entity didn't exist.

You just described this entity...You described it as infinite, without beginning, and that there was never a time it didn't exist..

No such thing as "selective description"..And this is what you just attempted.

So, either retract your prior statement, or try again.

Please read the first part of my post about describing this entity carefully. Also please think carefully and tell me how infinite or finite or not existing can actually be description like color, dimensions, measurement.

As a matter of fact I could explain God to someone without both using the word "God" or describing Him as It's impossible for Him to have descriptions.


THIS is your original statement...You say nothing about altering the definition of "describing". I.E. the color, shape etc.

You then realized this wasn't possible, and altered your statement.

I altered my statement did I? I don't know what's description if not size, color, or shape and let me ask again think carefully and tell me how being finite, infinite or not existing are descriptions do you get any literal sense or image from those words alone.

I suggest you look up the word "describe" in the dictionary..

It means a lot more than size, color or shape...

You will find that there is NO way of explaining something, without describing it.. It's impossible.

If you're so confident go ahead and answer my question then.

You didn't ask a question..You made a non-sensical statement.

I guess you don't care to know the definition of the word describe..

You will just throw up your arms and wave.

I thought so, you have chosen to ignore the question apparently probably because you realized you can't answer it without admitting to what I said.

And, it's not a matter of confidence..I just prefer to know the implications of a statement, before I toss it into the ring. And to know the definitions of words that I use, before using them.

You're totally right BC...I can't answer your question.. It didn't make any sense..

You're also throwing up red herrings...

You failed to carry out what you claimed you could...You attempted to change the rules.. You failed..

Have you bothered to look the word up yet?...Or do you plan to just keep changing the subject?

Go ahead and answer my question then and prove I failed so badly.

You proved you failed already...Nothing can be explained, that can't be described...

Really nothing else to say on the subject.

Who's side-tracking now? Not me.

Side-tracking? that would be YOU..

You claimed you could EXPLAIN "God", without DESCRIBING it..

It's impossible to do, and you failed..

Yet you keep asking me to answer this so called question of yours..

What's the point?...Would it make your claim any less wrong?

You've yet to prove how I completely failed in my claim so answer the darn question and tell me if you get a literal sense or image like you may from a particular color, size, or shape from just a word like infinite, finite, or non-existent.

colorless? nameless? measurable (I think not)? possibly indefinite as it is by definition? You can describe the word with a word with the one that expresses it as a summation, but No I tell you it is the beginning action that runs through any person's mental calculator. It is also the last thing that runs through their mind when they attempt to justify their actions. What do I speak of? as it certainly can not be contained within three letters. It comes with a book that may or may not be used by a crook. If only the actions were better on this planet of ours maybe we could see my view. To see all we see? Is that all we have to do to become more like this aspect of peace. No it is to do as I do. Monkey see, monkey do. Are we all not part of it in some way? Whatever world this may be. Whatever actions we hold to value our existence. It goes beyond good and evil as it is always justified in the end. Which leads only another beginning to it. It is called life and there is only one escape, To end it completely. But even then I say it is only a beginning left for another to pick up and justify. There is no escape. So Who is to blame? I tell you from the soul that I will accept the blame if you can Justify my reasoning. Cut/ print/ show to grandmother. It is alive:worship:

You've yet to prove how I completely failed in my claim so answer the darn question and tell me if you get a literal sense or image like you may from a particular color, size, or shape.

I don't need to prove you wrong..YOU ALREADY DID!..

Is there something wrong with you mentally? We have gone over this time after time..

You clearly don't know the definition of the word describe, so you choose to make one up that suits you... Hence your query can't be answered..

Description:

A verbal account or portrayal of a person, scene, or event. etc.

A technical account,definition.

Where in that definition from the DICTIONARY, does it say anything about the word only meaning size, shape, and color????

I think this is a bit funny, tell me how do you get a portrayal of a person, scene, or event from just adjectives like finite, infinite, or non-existent and no literal descriptions.

I think this is a bit funny, tell me how do you get a portrayal of a person, scene, or event from just adjectives like finite, infinite, or non-existent and no additional descriptions.


Dude, you're just playing games now...You can't be as dumb as you're coming across.

You failed..I gave you the definition of the word description..You want to argue what it means, contact Websters Dictionary.

And for the LAST time..You CAN'T explain something without describing it..

If you feel that you can, please do...Otherwise, this is a waste of time.

You proved yourself wrong several posts ago...Yet you just keep coming back with more red herring..

You made a ridiculous claim, without thinking it thru..You got called on it. Now you're back pedaling and side-tracking...I'm done with ya.

Well you do seem very reluctant to answer a simple question on topic.

Well you do seem very reluctant to answer a simple question on topic.




And you seem very reluctant to admit you failed.

Btw...You initially referred to "God" as HE or HIM..I do get a "literal sense or image" from that.

Or are you saying, that since you didn't add that to your later "explanation" that this so called "God" may in fact be a female?

If so, then your explanation, doesn't match your belief.

He thinks he is self reliant and is not accepting of the fact that god didn't put you here to argue his existence. Or because you believe a "physical" being made the universe. Both points are mute as we would not be able to ask these questions if the word "God" itself did not exist. You could not even attempt to explain God to your grandmother if the word itself did not exist. Try it Go up to your grandmother and explain God without using the word or bringing a book. Might as well tell her every detail of your life story. That is the only way I could explain it and nobody wants their grandmother to know their most intimate details...

well, in my relegion, God, is different from what in christanity wich is a physical being, how can a physical being, creat a physical univerce, while there was no physical things before it, and before that matters before the bigbang, anyway, god, to us, is not a physical being, god is an ultumate being, infact, idk if the ord being is correct, god is out of our laws that we know, out of the limits of time, time doesnt mean anything to god, god can see the future as past,the certin future as past, because it will defferently happen, and it will be happened, time doesnt mean anything, god in our defition is the creator, who created everything and started the univerce, god is who will judge us in the end of earth, as he did to who were before us, we humans we'rent the first intelligent beings that god created on earth, also we do beleive in aliens, and in djins, besides the angels and devils. if we even don't know or understand out sun, or even everything on our own planet, and don't know anything about our oceans, and the univerce, how can we judge that there's no god if we can't judge on what's on our own earth or our own univerce, on earth, everyday new ceature gets discovered, even some bacteria discovered in the atmosphere, wich we thought there's no life in it, etc etc...and yes you can ask question in my relegion, because it's based on mind, and not as some people think, "it say so, so it's so", on teh contrarry, you should ask, to understand why, and to be convinced, yes, you can explain what's god.

Why not? I said I could explain God not describe Him by making references.

ah, i can describe god, we have 99 description words for god in islam, but, not physical descriptions, for example "the mecyfull, the great, ...."
but yeah i know what you mean.

Could a person not create the universe, would it matter if we could all "create our own universe" would we then still not come to a better understanding of my argument? You could get "god" to come to you(= Crazy Idea lets make a universe. Alright what materials do we have to prove this god?

''Whose God Is Responsible" for the conditions of the world that we live in.

It woud be the "God" who freely chose to put this design into creation.!!!

but, wy do you think god is responsible for the wars WE make, for the pople WE kill.?? god gave us the freewill, so, god don't controll us, we design our world

but, wy do you think god is responsible for the wars WE make, for the pople WE kill.?? god gave us the freewill, so, god don't controll us, we design our world

How can humans behave other than how they was designed to behave.???

but, wy do you think god is responsible for the wars WE make, for the pople WE kill.?? god gave us the freewill, so, god don't controll us, we design our world

God and freewill are incompatible concepts!

God is omnipotent/omniscience so he/she/it knows (actually plans) our decisions prior to our creation. Otherwise he is not God (not omnipotent/omniscience). So the idea of freewill and gods existence are logically inconsistent.

KRR

How can humans behave other than how they was designed to behave.???

we are designed to choose, to do good, or bad, to beleive in god, or not, and do anything, and then, and then, there's the judgement.
how do you think we are designed to behave? and for what?

God and freewill are incompatible concepts!

God is omnipotent/omniscience so he/she/it knows (actually plans) our decisions prior to our creation. Otherwise he is not God (not omnipotent/omniscience). So the idea of freewill and gods existence are logically inconsistent.

KRR

well, no, not really, in my relegion, god, created for us, the freewill, that's why we can be better than angels, if we choose to do the good, we are free to do good or bad, i mean, people are doing bad things, yet, i mean, they are doing bad things, and others doing good things, they are free, you do good or bad, you beleive in god or not, and then, after you maked everything you want, and at the judgement day, god judge us all, by individuals, according to he's or her's decisions, acts, and etc... and why logically incosistent?
anyway, the freewill, you do have it, but, it's not exaclty free, you're attached to your society, and etc... you can live without wearing clothes, etc... but, yet you still free, you can go to street and run naked, you can do anything you want.
so, explain your point pleas?

well, no, not really, in my relegion, god, created for us, the freewill, that's why we can be better than angels, if we choose to do the good, we are free to do good or bad, i mean, people are doing bad things, yet, i mean, they are doing bad things, and others doing good things, they are free, you do good or bad, you beleive in god or not, and then, after you maked everything you want, and at the judgement day, god judge us all, by individuals, according to he's or her's decisions, acts, and etc... and why logically incosistent?

Because your god as you envision it (If you are Christian) is all powerful and all knowing. Therefore he/she/it cannot create a universe that he/she/it does not know everything about to an infinite detail including all of our decisions. This of course makes god more complicated then the universe itself, but that is another discussion.


anyway, the freewill, you do have it, but, it's not exaclty free, you're attached to your society, and etc... you can live without wearing clothes, etc... but, yet you still free, you can go to street and run naked, you can do anything you want.
so, explain your point pleas?

We are all simply the products of our environment. First evolution created our biology. Then we are influenced by our environment. There is no god or spirits or anything supernatural about us or our universe or anything else.

Freewill is simply a response to the idea that god is responsible for creating us and therefore how can he/she/it punish us, by sending us to hell, for what we do when he/she/it created us this way in the first place.

So the idea of god and freewill are logically incompatible.

You may believe what you want, but it is just that, a belief, a hope, there is nothing to support the existance of anything supernatural.

KRR

Because your god as you envision it (If you are Christian) is all powerful and all knowing. Therefore he/she/it cannot create a universe that he/she/it does not know everything about to an infinite detail including all of our decisions. This of course makes god more complicated then the universe itself, but that is another discussion.



We are all simply the products of our environment. First evolution created our biology. Then we are influenced by our environment. There is no god or spirits or anything supernatural about us or our universe or anything else.

Freewill is simply a response to the idea that god is responsible for creating us and therefore how can he/she/it punish us, by sending us to hell, for what we do when he/she/it created us this way in the first place.

So the idea of god and freewill are logically incompatible.

You may believe what you want, but it is just that, a belief, a hope, there is nothing to support the existance of anything supernatural.

KRR

so, you can just say it, you're atheist :P hehehe, why would i bother? :D
still you're arguments are pretty much weak, some atheists have good arguments, wich are many times, opposite to each other each time according to the situation, but, you're arguments aren't good, :P

also, i don't beleive in god, as physical, or, as human, or have a son. i did explain before, go back to myprevious posts :)

so, you can just say it, you're atheist :P hehehe, why would i bother? :D
still you're arguments are pretty much weak, some atheists have good arguments, wich are many times, opposite to each other each time according to the situation, but, you're arguments aren't good, :P

If you don't believe, that is good! and as you might have inferred... I don't either.

My argument is the best that you can have! As has been said, you cannot prove a negative so a logical argument is the best it can get. It's logically complete and shows the invalidity of god as envisioned. I cannot think of a stronger argument against the existance of a god.

If you feel it is not a strong argument...

1) show me a stronger argument.
2) pick mine apart piece by piece... please.

KRR

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
How can humans behave other than how they was designed to behave.???



how do you think we are designed to behave? and for what?

Assumin we was designed by a God... i thank this God designed humans to behave esactly the way humans do behave... an acordin to the mor popular God beleifs... mos people behave in such a way that ther eternity will be spent in hell.!!!

Jus so i will have an idea of you'r perspective... what is you'r religion.???

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
How can humans behave other than how they was designed to behave.???



Assumin we was designed by a God... i thank this God designed humans to behave esactly the way humans do behave... an acordin to the mor popular God beleifs... mos people behave in such a way that ther eternity will be spent in hell.!!!

Jus so i will have an idea of you'r perspective... what is you'r religion.???

we humans, still have the animal part, the non smart part, the part that can't controll it's, desires, but god also gave us a mind, (not saying a brain), a mind, high intelligence, with a high concious, as i said, we are free to behave as we want, now if you're talking about human behaviours, well, that's very complicated than you think, first, we have to go back the biologic side, and the lizard brain that we have, and the animal instincts that we have, then, the envirements and groups of humans over the human existence, the society, and everything, it needs a new thread, we are not designed to behave in a specific way, but we GET designed by each other, to behave in a such way, and we are free to behave as we want, you want to go run naked in the street? you can, but, can you? you can do it, but, socially, and in your society, will you do it?

If you don't believe, that is good! and as you might have inferred... I don't either.

My argument is the best that you can have! As has been said, you cannot prove a negative so a logical argument is the best it can get. It's logically complete and shows the invalidity of god as envisioned. I cannot think of a stronger argument against the existance of a god.

If you feel it is not a strong argument...

1) show me a stronger argument.
2) pick mine apart piece by piece... please.

KRR

no i'm a beleiver, but i said i saw stronger arguments, ye your arguments are very weak :P :) that's all

. mos people behave in such a way that ther eternity will be spent in hell.!!!



what is that way?

Jus so i will have an idea of you'r perspective... what is you'r religion.???

not now ;)
my relegion is beleveing in one god, the creator of all, the only and no one else.

...we are not designed to behave in a specific way, but we GET designed by each other, to behave in a such way, and we are free to behave as we want...

Do you thank God gave everbody an euqal amount of free will.???

Do you thank God gave everbody an euqal amount of free will.???

yes, but again, the society, always make boundaries for the human behvaiours, also the environement(for example it's very cold, you don't want to wear clothes, but you'll have to).
anyway, what's your definition of the freewill, because you asked the same question more than once.?

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
Do you thank God gave everbody an euqal amount of free will.???


yes, but again, the society, always maked some boundaries, also the envirement.


So does everbody have an equal opportunity to make it to heaven.???



what's your definition of the freewill...

Uninfluenced choises.!!!

no i'm a beleiver, but i said i saw stronger arguments, ye your arguments are very weak :P :) that's all

I expected as much! Or in this case... as little (substance).

KRR

''Whose God Is Responsible" for the conditions of the world that we live in. Each religious denomination, especially the three organizations namely Judaism , Christianity , And Islaam , will claim that their God is loving caring, and in control of everything that happens in all the boundless universes. While these Rabbis , Preaches and Imaams stand before their congregations whether it is on Friday , Saturday or Sunday. They repeat over and over again, God's promise of paradise when you die , God's concern with all of his creatures and creations. Never once do they address the daily condition of the world; The mistakes in creation, the misfits, the deformed, the Criminally insane. All of this is blamed on one species in creation called "the Devil"

So whose REALLY responsible?????
Its not clear what you are citing to indicate a world gone off the rails or whatever it is that indicates a lack of responsibility.

Do you thank God gave everbody an euqal amount of free will.???
Kind of like asking whether all correct answers to a maths problem are equally right, or if all expectant mothers are merely half pregnant or if all the people who lost their lives in WW2 give a variety of results in regards to the question of them being alive

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
Do you thank God gave everbody an euqal amount of free will.???



So does everbody have an equal opportunity to make it to heaven.???

yes, but, depending on your acts, if you did bad, go to hell, good, go to heaven, if you heart people, and etc... and heart animals, or plants, or even earth, byebye to hell, if you do good things more than bad, you go to heaven, anyway, it's like, in your life time, on each act, either you have a (+) or a (-), if the total is (-), you go to hell, if the total is (+) you go to heaven, that's a general look.




Uninfluenced choises.!!!
yes

I expected as much! Or in this case... as little (substance).

KRR

what do you mean?

Kind of like asking whether all correct answers to a maths problem are equally right, or if all expectant mothers are merely half pregnant or if all the people who lost their lives in WW2 give a variety of results in regards to the question of them being alive

yes we all have a freewill, the same freewill, BUT, does the society and the envirement make it an equal free will to everyone? and do you make it a total freewill to our self? i mean, you surely wanted to throw someone from the roof once, but, you wan't do it, it's a bad thing, you are free to do it,you can, but, it doesnt mean it's good to, you can do it, but you didnt, so you controlled that free will of throwing that person from the roof :P

yes we all have a freewill, the same freewill, BUT, does the society and the envirement make it an equal free will to everyone? and do you make it a total freewill to our self? i mean, you surely wanted to throw someone from the roof once, but, you wan't do it, it's a bad thing, you are free to do it,you can, but, it doesnt mean it's good to, you can do it, but you didnt, so you controlled that free will of throwing that person from the roof :P
free will is one thing and the (in)ability to fulfill one's desires or act in accordance with them is something else

I mean its not like the argument "I want to have a million dollars but I don't" is an argument against free will

''Whose God Is Responsible" for the conditions of the world that we live in. Each religious denomination, especially the three organizations namely Judaism , Christianity , And Islaam , will claim that their God is loving caring, and in control of everything that happens in all the boundless universes. While these Rabbis , Preaches and Imaams stand before their congregations whether it is on Friday , Saturday or Sunday. They repeat over and over again, God's promise of paradise when you die , God's concern with all of his creatures and creations. Never once do they address the daily condition of the world; The mistakes in creation, the misfits, the deformed, the Criminally insane. All of this is blamed on one species in creation called "the Devil"

So whose REALLY responsible?????
If you are arguing that god is merely a construct of provincial culture (and that there exists no possible way to reconcile the variety of claims made in the name of god) you are arguing that humanity is responsible

free will is one thing and the (in)ability to fulfill one's desires or act in accordance with them is something else

I mean its not like the argument "I want to have a million dollars but I don't" is an argument against free will

that's not what i meant, you can't have everything you want, to desire to have something, not really what i meant by free-will, i meant the free will to do anything, you can go and do what you want to do, but, that doesnt mean that the society is not against all your free-will, or laws too for example.

now seriously, now think about it, if we all were programmed to do the things we do, and the world is programmed to be just like that, and all things are runned, then, why would we be judged at the judgement day? well, in christanity, they say all christians will go to heaven, a killer or whatever, all of them will go to heaven, however, i'm not christian, anyway, god, in the judgement day, will judge us all, by individuals, what did you do in your life? what are the bad things and the good things, etc etc etc.....means, we Do have the free-will, to act how we like, and then, god will judge us, on that acts we did, but still the free-will is not 100% free will in our societies, i mean, the society always creats some boundaries, also laws, the envirement, etc etc... but you can challenge your society or whatever, and do what you like, i mean, you can, but, you mostly you wan't, but you can.

and there's no "who's god is responsible", god, is the same god, worshiped in the 3 relegions, (i don't mean jesus christ (pbuh), jesus christ is not a god neither the son of god, he's a human like me and you, he's a prophet) anyway, there's only one god, wich we all agree on, that is, god is who created everything, and started the univerce, god is beyond our understanding (if the univerce itself is beyond our full understanding, do you actually expect us to know how god is? we don't even know alot about our own sun, and we don't know everything about our own history and planet)

i think most atheist, don't really know, who or what's god, they don't really know, they propably think god, like in christanity is a human or something, etc.. many of them don't really know, while when discussing about the begening of univerce, it seems like they do what's or who's god, but they don't say god, while, is really god.

i think most atheist, don't really know, who or what's god.
Hmm, like me. TBH I've never found a theist whos able to describe god either in a way I understand.

Hmm, like me. TBH I've never found a theist whos able to describe god either in a way I understand.

Kinda funny...If you ask people to describe Santa, or even the Easter Bunny, most people can..And their descriptions will all be pretty similar..

Yet, if you ask those same people to describe "God", it's a totally different story.. I guess it's just one of those things that makes ya go hmmm.

Hmm, like me. TBH I've never found a theist whos able to describe god either in a way I understand.

describe god physicly, we can't, god is not physical, and, we can't see god,
99 name, description: http://www.arabacademy.com/download/99Names.htm
god is the creator, and not like in christanity god is a human and have a son and etc... no, god is the creator, beyond our understanding, i mean, we don't even understand all about our sun! and we don't even know everything on our own planet, esspecialy oceans.

Kinda funny...If you ask people to describe Santa, or even the Easter Bunny, most people can..And their descriptions will all be pretty similar..

Yet, if you ask those same people to describe "God", it's a totally different story.. I guess it's just one of those things that makes ya go hmmm.

can you describe how do i look? i look like a human, but, can you describe how do i look?

god is the creator, beyond our understanding.
So I guess we can never know God, or even know what he wants of us. I might as well simply shrug my shoulders and carry on as if he/she/it didnt exist. If I tried to understand what God wanted from me I'd probably get it wrong anyway, after all he is beyond our understanding.

So I guess we can never know God, or even know what he wants of us. I might as well simply shrug my shoulders and carry on as if he/she/it didnt exist. If I tried to understand what God wanted from me I'd probably get it wrong anyway, after all he is beyond our understanding.

what i mean with it's beyond our understanding, is, how do god look or something, and etc...
why did god created us?
link1 (http://english.islammessage.com/articledetails.aspx?articleId=1020)
link2
(http://islamonline.org/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&cid=1217798733308&pagename=Zone-English-Discover_Islam/DIELayout)
search google more if you want
god created us and gave us a free-will, to build and use creation, all creatures are nations like us, but we are superior than them, because we have this, curiosity to knowledge, and the search of knoledge, simply, the mind, and it's like a test for us, because, we have the free-will, we can do bad, or good, and at the judgement day, god judge us, and send the good to heaven, and the bad to hell, why this test? because we have the free will, while angels, god created them (not as you see in the churche or whatever, we have things we call, "the unseen" wich we can't know how do they look) but they don't have the free-will, that's why, we can be better than angels, if we did good, and worshiped and convinced with the existence of god, and worked and did everything to make things better and do good to people and all the other creautres, etc... and we do it with the free-will.

((in your self, you are saying, what a bullshit!, right? lol))

in your self, you are saying, what a bullshit!,
More or less. Though I find it funny that all I need to do is "google it" if I want to find out what God is.

More or less. Though I find it funny that all I need to do is "google it" if I want to find out what God is.

:P
if you do, don't take the christian defition, they say god is from flesh, and have a son, or that son is god, idk, anyway :P
so, if you don't even beleive in god, why are you on this thread?

Oh is this thread for believers only? Well I suppose I will leave them to argue which God is responsible.

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
So does everbody have an equal opportunity to make it to heaven.???


yes, but, depending on your acts, if you did bad, go to hell, good, go to heaven, if you heart people, and etc... and heart animals, or plants, or even earth, byebye to hell, if you do good things more than bad, you go to heaven, anyway, it's like, in your life time, on each act, either you have a (+) or a (-), if the total is (-), you go to hell, if the total is (+) you go to heaven, that's a general look.


Does one need to beleive in the corect God to make it to heaven.???

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
Do you thank God gave everbody an euqal amount of free will.???


Kind of like asking whether all correct answers to a maths problem are equally right, or if all expectant mothers are merely half pregnant or if all the people who lost their lives in WW2 give a variety of results in regards to the question of them being alive

Well mayb so... dependin on what you thank free will is... I see it as bein able to make uninfluended choises... how do you define free will.???

Oh is this thread for believers only? Well I suppose I will leave them to argue which God is responsible.

no, i meant, you don't beleive in god, why are you discussing about who's "god" is doing things.
anywya, i'm not saying that should leave or something, or trying to escape from disucssing with you.

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
So does everbody have an equal opportunity to make it to heaven.???



Does one need to beleive in the corect God to make it to heaven.???

what correct god and what wrong god? just beleive in a one god, the creator, (not the fother of jesus, and not the god who's a human), and, that's it, that's the most important principale, anyway, for people who don't know about the relegions of one god, and their hall life warshiping a stone; or the moon, they wan't get judged on their beleif in teh stone and not in god, i mean, they don't know about god, no one told them about, so, they are judged according to their acts and life, and etc... and even some of he's relegion practices, if he's not hurting anyone with it, including himself,also no hurting any other creatures for nothing.
and, what correct god? i mean, christanity, islam, and jew, share the same god, maybe christian say god have a son, who is jesus, and worshiping jesus as god, but still, well, at least most colts, or, sections of christanity, beleive in god as god the creator, the ultumate, and etc etc... the 99 words i posted before, check them.

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
Do you thank God gave everbody an euqal amount of free will.???



Well mayb so... dependin on what you thank free will is... I see it as bein able to make uninfluended choises... how do you define free will.???

lol, as i said before, you are free to do anything right? i mean, you can go out to the street and run naked? you can go and kill somebudy, right? you can do it, but, does your society allow you too? you do have the free will to do things, but, does your society let you do anything? for example kill someone? no, so, your free-will, is, well, there are soem lines, drawed by the society, you CAN do what you are going to do, that's a freewill, for example when you're going to run naked in the street, you can do it, you can remove your clothes, and walk, then run when peopel see you, or just run naked, etc...when you are doing that, is their actually, something, that put you in "pause" or freez, or something? that's the freewill, but the lines that the society draws, and the laws draws, and the being good draws, like no for killing, are limitations for the freewill, yet you can break those, but propably will lead you to jail, or cause some problems with your friends, etc... if you think the contrary, how so? we don't have free will? i can't do anything i want, i CAN do it, but i DON'T do it, but i CAN and i CAN

Kinda funny...If you ask people to describe Santa, or even the Easter Bunny, most people can..And their descriptions will all be pretty similar..

Yet, if you ask those same people to describe "God", it's a totally different story.. I guess it's just one of those things that makes ya go hmmm.

Santa and the Easter bunny are well defined and specific. God is as varied as the religions that define it.

God serves a different purpose for each believer... So "your" god is a false god otherwise my god could not exist because they are incompatible... there we have it! the justification for another war... :(

KRR

So "your" god is a false god otherwise my god could not exist because they are incompatible... there we have it! the justification for another war... :(

KRR

Kinda reminds me of being a kid..

The old "My dad will kick your dads ass" bit.. Only on a larger scale.

what correct god and what wrong god? just beleive in a one god, the creator...


What if somone rejects God... will they go to eternal hell.???

...as i said before, you are free to do anything right?

Do insane people have the free will to becom sane.???

What if somone rejects God... will they go to eternal hell.???

ETERNAL HELL?!?!?!?

omg clueless, would that be a place of violence, and hatred, and discrimination, and slavery, and suffering, and RAPED BABIES?!?!?!?!

you mean, exactly like the world you live in now, except you wouldn't die, so it would go on and on forever?!?!?!?!

OMG. :eek:

ETERNAL HELL?!?!?!?

omg clueless, would that be a place of violence, and hatred, and discrimination, and slavery, and suffering, and RAPED BABIES?!?!?!?!

you mean, exactly like the world you live in now, except you wouldn't die, so it would go on and on forever?!?!?!?!

OMG. :eek:

Is you'r beleif that "earf is hell" from the Holey Bible.???

Is you'r beleif that "earf is hell" from the Holey Bible.???

it is my belief that eternal hell is a result of our human desires and choices. don't you agree that is evident?

it is my belief that eternal hell is a result of our human desires and choices. don't you agree that is evident?

I dont have a beleif that eternal hell esists.!!!

I dont have a beleif that eternal hell esists.!!!

well, i'll give you credit, for ignoring a hell of a lot of things that totally support the odds of it existing!!! like the world you live in!!! :confused:

Santa and the Easter bunny are well defined and specific. God is as varied as the religions that define it.

God serves a different purpose for each believer... So "your" god is a false god otherwise my god could not exist because they are incompatible... there we have it! the justification for another war... :(

KRR

that's what we call, fanatisme, fanatisme, is, saying, NO you're GOD is not real! Myne is!! and the other guy, say the same, that's called fanatism and it would cause bad things, and that's what you just said, no, my god is the right one...

What if somone rejects God... will they go to eternal hell.???

there are different cases, if you heard and know about god, and etc... and you reject it, and you didnt think about it, and etc.. yes, byebye to hell, also, not only who don't beleive in god can go to hell, also beleiver can, unlike in christanity, wich says all christians go to heaven, in my relegion, it doesnt matter, you can be a muslim, and go to hell, who do the bad things and etc... i explained it in my previous post, wich is applied on all humans, not just christians alone, or atheists alone, or muslims alone.
in another case, where someone, born, and raised, and died, on, that there's no god, and, never heard anything about "god", and who's god, and etc... never knew, he wan't get judged on that, because, it wasnt he's fault that he don't know, anyway, knowing what's going on around you, and learning what's new, and etc... is a duty. but if he knowed about god, the creator, (and the other 99 words if you want) and didnt beleive in god, yes he would go to hell.

Do insane people have the free will to becom sane.???

insane people, and people who are paralyzed in their mind, don't get judged by god, because they are really aware, also, effcorse they have a free-will, i mean, who would controll them? they have the free will of their own mind (also the people who are paralyzed in their minds, act as they are raised on, just like kids, if they were raised on good, means, the people who raised them, are good with them ,and calm, and etc... they would be calm, for example you tell someone like that, to give you he's chocolate, he can give it to you, and he can not give it to you), but we can't realy understand how does the paralyzed people or insane people think, if you mean insane, sicologicly, that's along study, if you mean born like that, paralyzed in he's mind, means, kinda primitive, don't think.
insane people, means sicologicly ill, i really don't know, if you mean insane with killing for example, defferently to hell, because, he started to kill, not just like that, anoher example, a person insane,act like an animal, and as a primitive, and as a kid, and not aware of, he wan't get judged on that, if he's aware, he would be judged, but, anywya, if you mean, the people who are paralyzed in their minds, or, that kind of insane people like those paralyzed, are not really aware, they are more close to the their animal instinct, but they are aware, in their own world, and they have their free will in their own world in their mind, but, they wan't get judged in that.

ETERNAL HELL?!?!?!?

omg clueless, would that be a place of violence, and hatred, and discrimination, and slavery, and suffering, and RAPED BABIES?!?!?!?!

you mean, exactly like the world you live in now, except you wouldn't die, so it would go on and on forever?!?!?!?!

OMG. :eek:

uuh, what do you mean exactly, lori?

it is my belief that eternal hell is a result of our human desires and choices. don't you agree that is evident?

i do.

I dont have a beleif that eternal hell esists.!!!

do you beleive that there are other intelligent beings in the univerce? do you beleive that there are other univerces, or parallel unvierces?

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
I dont have a beleif that eternal hell esists.!!!


well, i'll give you credit, for ignoring a hell of a lot of things that totally support the odds of it existing!!! like the world you live in!!! :confused:

Thers zero evidence in suport of an eternal hell... but thers a boat load of evidence which suports evoluton bein cruel.!!!


...if you heard and know about god, and etc... and you reject it, ...byebye to hell...


What is the purpos of hell.???


insane people, and people who are paralyzed in their mind, don't get judged by god...

Do those people automaticaly go to heaven.???


do you beleive that there are other intelligent beings in the univerce? do you beleive that there are other univerces, or parallel unvierces?

I thank those thangs are posible.!!!

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
I dont have a beleif that eternal hell esists.!!!



Thers zero evidence in suport of an eternal hell... but thers a boat load of evidence which suports evoluton bein cruel.!!!

oh, it's evolution that is cruel? and here i thought it was the people that were cruel.




What is the purpos of hell.???

to give the people who desire this kind of an existence a place to have it.



[/QUOTE]

I thank those thangs are posible.!!!

hmm, i see, and why not hell possible? why it's not possible? i mean, you dont see aliens around or something, and why it's impossible that there's a god? how do you know? how do you know that there's an intelligent life outtheir? hmm


]
Thers zero evidence in suport of an eternal hell... but thers a boat load of evidence which suports evoluton bein cruel.!!!
zero evidence to provve the parallel univerces, or other univerces, zero evidences to proove that the univerce is infinite, or have a limit.



What is the purpos of hell.???
what do you think?



Do those people automaticaly go to heaven.???



yes

to give the people who desire this kind of an existence a place to have it.





what do you mean?

what do you mean?

you can see in the world around us, that in a big way, we, based upon our desires, determine our own quality of life.

many of those desires have led to a hellish existence.

hell is simply a place where people who wish to reject god, and live in hatred and in suffering can do so, without victimizing the rest of us who don't want that. :shrug:

hell is simply a place where people who wish to reject god, and live in hatred and in suffering can do so, without victimizing the rest of us who don't want that. :shrug:


I don't "reject" God, I just don't believe one exists.. To reject something, you'd have to acknowledge it exists first.

Are you saying that if I don't believe in a God, I live in hatred and suffering?
That's horse shit.

I doubt my life is all that different from yours...I just don't believe in a God.

I don't need it to get thru each day..I don't blame it for the bad things that happen, I don't credit it, for the good.

Seems you believe that only those that believe in a God, can be happy.

If that works for you, that's great. I'm doing fine without one.

I am not anti-religion, I just personally don't subscribe to it.

There is no heaven, there is no hell...There is only life and death.

I don't "reject" God, I just don't believe one exists.. To reject something, you'd have to acknowledge it exists first.

Are you saying that if I don't believe in a God, I live in hatred and suffering?
That's horse shit.

I doubt my life is all that different from yours...I just don't believe in a God.

I don't need it to get thru each day..I don't blame it for the bad things that happen, I don't credit it, for the good.

Seems you believe that only those that believe in a God, can be happy.

If that works for you, that's great. I'm doing fine without one.

I am not anti-religion, I just personally don't subscribe to it.

There is no heaven, there is no hell...There is only life and death.

i'm not suggesting religion, and i'm not suggesting happiness per se. lots of things that make us happy can be pretty destructive at the same time.

i don't even talk about heaven and hell as a place, unless someone addresses that specifically, and then i make an analogy to the world we live in now. that is because it's what i'm familiar with (as i'm not dead yet), and because i think it's very easy to extrapolate the concept of heaven and hell based upon what we see going on around us, and even within us, every day.

the one thing i believe, that's based entirely on my own experience (although confirmed in scripture), is that a person has to be open to the idea of god, and to the idea of having a relationship with god, before that can ever happen. people have a whole host of very valid reasons for not being open to that, whether god exists or not. god has proven his existence to many people, including myself. i have absolutely no doubt in my mind that god exists, that his law exists, that a spiritual realm exists, and no religion gave me that, no book gave me that, and no person gave me that. the proof that i have was given to me directly and personally by god himself. and god can and will do that for anyone who is open, but being open to it is the key, whether you have evidence or proof or not. not being open IS a rejection, and like i said, the rejection is determined for a reason.

Who said I wasn't open to the idea? I've just seen no reason to believe one exists so far..Who knows, that could change some day..

From what you have said in different threads, you haven't always believed either.. Certain events changed your stance on the God question..

In my 46 years in this life, I haven't experienced any such events.

As I said before, I have nothing against those that believe..To each their own.

Just as I don't judge you for believeing, don't judge me for not.

That statement is in general, not neccessarily directed at you.

Who said I wasn't open to the idea? I've just seen no reason to believe one exists so far..Who knows, that could change some day..

From what you have said in different threads, you haven't always believed either.. Certain events changed your stance on the God question..

In my 46 years in this life, I haven't experienced any such events.

As I said before, I have nothing against those that believe..To each their own.

Just as I don't judge you for believeing, don't judge me for not.

That statement is in general, not neccessarily directed at you.

you're right. there was a time when i didn't believe because i had no reason to, and i wasn't about to believe unless i did. i honestly don't understand how it's possible to believe without some type of proof.

i admit though, that for a long time i didn't want to know, and i had some really valid reasons for not wanting to know. the first and foremost reason was religion and the fact that i wanted no part of it. beyond that, i didn't want anyone or anything telling me what to do, judging me, condemning me, forcing me, to be someone i was not. i've pleasantly come to find that my perception about those associations was wrong.

i know for a fact, that what changed in me, was my desire to know. i came to a place in my life that, regardless of the negative associations i held, i still wanted to know. so i said to god, "if you're out there, and if you're real, then prove it."

and god proved it.

1) i honestly don't understand how it's possible to believe without some type of proof.

2) the first and foremost reason was religion and the fact that i wanted no part of it. beyond that, i didn't want anyone or anything telling me what to do, judging me, condemning me, forcing me, to be someone i was not.

3) so i said to god, "if you're out there, and if you're real, then prove it."

and god proved it.

1)Then you agree, some proof is a must.. I have yet to see any for myself yet.

2)Big point here...I DO reject organized religion, for the very reasons you stated. Big difference between belief in a God, and religion.

3) Well, I have asked the same question many times over the years.. So far, I have recieved no response.. But, who knows what can happen later.

But, it's just hard for me to wrap my mind around an invisible entity that created everything, and sits quietly in "heaven" watching us destroy ourselves.

So, for now I will wait for some sign that leads me to believe...

1)Then you agree, some proof is a must.. I have yet to see any for myself yet. yes.


2)Big point here...I DO reject organized religion, for the very reasons you stated. Big difference between belief in a God, and religion. yes...huge.


3) Well, I have asked the same question many times over the years.. So far, I have recieved no response.. But, who knows what can happen later. yes, and from what i can tell, being sincere, even emphatic, and demanding doesn't hurt.


But, it's just hard for me to wrap my mind around an invisible entity that created everything, and sits quietly in "heaven" watching us destroy ourselves.

i think it's sensible to assume that our perception of what god is is very limited.


So, for now I will wait for some sign that leads me to believe...

yay. :)

@ Lori

I thought of a sure fire sign that God exists....

That you suddenly find that ranch is your favorite food, and eat it at every meal...'Cause that would take a miracle..lol

Sorry, just needed a light moment here...:p


Sidenote: I know others are gonna read this and wonder wtf I'm talking about.

@ Lori

I thought of a sure fire sign that God exists....

That you suddenly find that ranch is your favorite food, and eat it at every meal...'Cause that would take a miracle..lol

Sorry, just needed a light moment here...:p


Sidenote: I know others are gonna read this and wonder wtf I'm talking about.

so me channeling angelic poetry, being visited by spirits, watching stationery wad itself up on my coffee table, and having a telephone conversation with satan himself isn't enough for you? gosh!

god hates ranch. ha! that would make another fine piece of flair! ranch...satan's condiment. :mufc:

god hates ranch. ha! that would make another fine piece of flair! ranch...satan's condiment. :mufc:


Did God tell you this?:bugeye:

Don't fear the ranch Lori...

Did God tell you this?:bugeye:

Don't fear the ranch Lori...

no, but i am determined to destroy the ranch anyway.

no, but i am determined to destroy the ranch anyway.

We only destroy that which we don't understand...

Embrace the ranch Lori...Come to know of its essence...lol

I actually had to laugh typing that out.

oh, it's evolution that is cruel? and here i thought it was the people that were cruel.


Evidene ponts to evoluton causin people to behave the way they do.!!!


...and why not hell possible?


It is.!!!



...why it's impossible that there's a god?


It isnt imposible that i know of.!!!
------------

What is the purpos of hell.???



What do you think?


Its you who thanks hell esists... so what do YOU thank its purpos is.???

...a person has to be open to the idea of god, and to the idea of having a relationship with god, before that can ever happen.


Good pont... if people woud be open to the truth that the God i beleive in created everthang (includin the God you beleive in)... then the door woud open to them for a relatonship wit the God of Gods.!!!

We only destroy that which we don't understand...

Embrace the ranch Lori...Come to know of its essence...lol

I actually had to laugh typing that out.

haha...oh, i have known of it's essence. you saw the shirt. if you could only smell it.

haha...oh, i have known of it's essence. you saw the shirt. if you could only smell it.

Yeah, I can imagine after a full shift, it would smell a bit rank..

That's why I used the word essence...lol

But, it's still one of Gods creations, and should be held in the highest esteem.:)

Evidene ponts to evoluton causin people to behave the way they do.!!!





really? because it doesn't seem to me as if people's intentions and/or desires have changed much, at least from what we can gather from recorded history. that's one of the coolest things i think about reading ancient or historical literature...to realize we haven't changed on the inside, regardless of how circumstances, or things have changed on the outside.

and personally, i don't use evolution as some excuse to be cruel. it's not usually obvious, when examining our own intentions, why we do what we do, and how the events in our lives, the people in our lives, the society we live in, and our beliefs shape our mentality, but it's not impossible. in my experience, examining these things with you is god's forte. the analogy i always use is that it's like god follows you around with a mirror and encourages you to look at yourself. i don't think that analogy would sound appealing to even the most vain person. perhaps especially to the most vain person. but appealing or not, it is very enlightening and empowering.

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
Evidene ponts to evoluton causin people to behave the way they do.!!!


really? because it doesn't seem to me as if people's intentions and/or desires have changed much, at least from what we can gather from recorded history.


Evoluton has been goin on for a bit longer than recorded history.!!!



...personally, i don't use evolution as some excuse to be cruel.


Its not an excuse... its an esplination for human behavior.!!!



in my experience, examining these things with you is god's forte. the analogy i always use is that it's like god follows you around with a mirror and encourages you to look at yourself.


At sunday school one time they told us that God is always wit us... always watchin us... well that nite when i was takin a bath i remenbered that an thout it was peerty creepy that som old man was in the bathroom watchin me take a bath :(

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
Evidene ponts to evoluton causin people to behave the way they do.!!!



Evoluton has been goin on for a bit longer than recorded history.!!!

certainly. and so how do you know, or what reason would you have to believe, that people's intentions and desires were any different before recorded history, especially if they have remained the same throughout recorded history?




Its not an excuse... its an esplination for human behavior.!!!

it's absolutely an excuse.




At sunday school one time they told us that God is always wit us... always watchin us... well that nite when i was takin a bath i remenbered that an thout it was peerty creepy that som old man was in the bathroom watchin me take a bath :(

what old man?

At sunday school one time they told us that God is always wit us... always watchin us... well that nite when i was takin a bath i remenbered that an thout it was peerty creepy that som old man was in the bathroom watchin me take a bath :(


As long as he doesn't offer to "fluff" up your bath water for ya, or tell ya to call him "Uncle ___", I guess it's ok.:p

As long as he doesn't offer to "fluff" up your bath water for ya, or tell ya to call him "Uncle ___", I guess it's ok.:p

equating god with a human being is foolish first of all.

secondly, if you trust someone, like your mom for example, you wouldn't feel uncomfortable.

thirdly, the complete and comprehensive exposure that is realized with a knowledge of god in your life is entirely transforming. all the walls come down, the secrets are exposed, and it is extremely humbling. people aren't that honest with themselves, much less other people around them, and god breaks all of that down. the things that society has taught you to pride yourself on, god doesn't necessarily appreciate, and the things you don't like about yourself, you are forced to address and change.

think about the mirror analogy for a minute. if you are emphatically encouraged to look in that mirror 24/7, you really need to love what you see. and getting to that point can be really difficult, but entirely worth it.

1) equating god with a human being is foolish first of all.

2)secondly, if you trust someone, like your mom for example, you wouldn't feel uncomfortable.


3)think about the mirror analogy for a minute. if you are emphatically encouraged to look in that mirror 24/7, you really need to love what you see. and getting to that point can be really difficult, but entirely worth it.

1) Umm Lori...I was joking...Hello..At least I thought it was funny.

2) Big "IF".. Not all of us grew up trusting parents or authority figures.

3) I have no problem with what I see in the mirror.(aside from the effects of age) I like who I am..I don't need "god" to make me feel worthy. (Just ranch)

1) Umm Lori...I was joking...Hello..At least I thought it was funny.

2) Big "IF".. Not all of us grew up trusting parents or authority figures.

3) I have no problem with what I see in the mirror.(aside from the effects of age) I like who I am..I don't need "god" to make me feel worthy. (Just ranch)

i know you were kidding, and it was slightly funny in a really sick way. my response was more for clueless than it was for you.

no one grows up with perfect parents. some with far far less than perfect, and that is really sad. but god is perfect, and learning to absolutely trust an authority figure could and would be very liberating and enlightening. something we could all benefit from in one way or another.

i think that alot of people would say they like and/or love themselves. i also think a lot of people would say otherwise. i also think a lot of people would say they love themselves, but be lying about that. i think that we all have issues and baggage that we carry around with us every day 24/7 that affects us and those around us in a huge way, and that we can most likely be completely in denial about it, feel entirely helpless and defeated in regards to it, or most likely be completely ignorant of it.

let's face it, none of us are perfect. that's a fact that EVERYONE can agree on. and well, god is. so in that case, don't you think that EVERYONE could benefit in some way from knowing god?

1) i know you were kidding, and it was slightly funny in a really sick way. my response was more for clueless than it was for you.

2) no one grows up with perfect parents. but god is perfect.

3) i think that alot of people would say they like and/or love themselves. i also think a lot of people would say otherwise.

4) let's face it, none of us are perfect. that's a fact that EVERYONE can agree on. and well, god is. so in that case, don't you think that EVERYONE could benefit in some way from knowing god?


1) It was meant to be a bit sick.. But the way Clueluss wrote out what he did, made me envision what I wrote.

2) Some don't even grow up with "real" parents, or any for that matter.

And how do you KNOW God is perfect?..Did he tell you this, or are you assuming?

3) Very true..But, do you think the only way to like/love yourself, is to know a God? You can't live a happy life without one?

4) True, none of us are perfect...Not even close. Again, how do you KNOW God is perfect? Unless he told you this himself, there is no proof.

And I have to disagree with your last statement..I don't think EVERYONE would benefit from "knowing" God.. Many have lived very happy lives without knowing or believing in any God. Some have never even heard of any God.

the God of the priests, rabis, imaams, corrupt religious bureaucrats,
if people would learn to think for themselves and see past their brainwashing
there would be no need
for any religion, evil emanates from the clergy, the heretics are the
enlightened ones, like all our power structures a case of the good guys
are the really bad guys and the bad guys are the really good guys.
wake up!

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
Evoluton has been goin on for a bit longer than recorded history.!!! ”


Lori
certainly. and so how do you know, or what reason would you have to believe, that people's intentions and desires were any different before recorded history, especially if they have remained the same throughout recorded history?


I dout that a 1 cell animal did much thankin about intentions or desires... but over time life evolved an produced humans esactly the way we curently are... which includes the esact desires an intentions we curently have.!!!
------------

“ Its not an excuse... its an esplination for human behavior.!!! ”



it's absolutely an excuse.


Acknowledgin the cause of somptin is not an escuse.!!!
----------

“ At sunday school one time they told us that God is always wit us... always watchin us... well that nite when i was takin a bath i remenbered that an thout it was peerty creepy that som old man was in the bathroom watchin me take a bath ”



what old man?


God... the bearded old man they showed us pitchers of.!!!

equating god with a human being is foolish first of all.


Whether you thank its foolish or not... people are free to equate ther idea of God in any way they want... but I was about 9 years old... an at sunday school they had showed us pitchers of God (which was an angry old man)... an the idea of an invisible angry old man bein in the bathroom an starin at me while i took a bath was creepy... but it didnt cause me any psychological prollems... lol... i mean... its not as if i actualy beleived the "creepy-guy" was real :)

''Whose God Is Responsible" for the conditions of the world that we live in. Each religious denomination, especially the three organizations namely Judaism , Christianity , And Islaam , will claim that their God is loving caring, and in control of everything that happens in all the boundless universes. While these Rabbis , Preaches and Imaams stand before their congregations whether it is on Friday , Saturday or Sunday. They repeat over and over again, God's promise of paradise when you die , God's concern with all of his creatures and creations. Never once do they address the daily condition of the world; The mistakes in creation, the misfits, the deformed, the Criminally insane. All of this is blamed on one species in creation called "the Devil"

So whose REALLY responsible?????

Humans beings will commit wrong and blame another.
They rarely take responsibility for their own actions. Even the average teenager believes that their right and everyone else is wrong. What feels good is good. Do the parents bear responsibility? Of Course.

But when will the teenager start to take responsibility for his or her own actions?

God made man with the ability choose.

Is it God's fault that you people have your children with out the commitment and responsibility of a Family Arrangement?

Is it God's fault you people don't count the cost of having so many children and can't afford them?

Is it God's fault you don't educate your children toward ethics and morality?


The Present World was made by the Children of the Past. If you want to know why the world is so crappy you should ask your parents.

so me channeling angelic poetry, being visited by spirits, watching stationery wad itself up on my coffee table, and having a telephone conversation with satan himself isn't enough for you? gosh!

god hates ranch. ha! that would make another fine piece of flair! ranch...satan's condiment. :mufc:

are you serious?? how do you know that it was satan on the phone? satan is the devil right? how the spirits were? and how that happened?
god hates ranch? why? it's a building like others? hate ranch and don't hate the porn shops? well, just wondering, nothing against you or your relegion :P :P :P

no, but i am determined to destroy the ranch anyway.

ah, okki, lol, i thought you was serious :P :D

Evidene ponts to evoluton causin people to behave the way they do.!!!



It is.!!!



It isnt imposible that i know of.!!!
------------

What is the purpos of hell.???



Its you who thanks hell esists... so what do YOU thank its purpos is.???

hmm, then, why should the infinit, or, the limited univerce should be also true? do you have evidences rather than theoritical articles? hmm.
weird that you beleive in the flying spagetty monster, and the green aliens or something, and you don't beleive in god :rolleyes:

what's the purpose of hell? why should i answer you? you know it, you are just playing to be like you don't know.

@cluelusshusbund

then, killing, fanatism, hypocrecy, being a hore, and etc... are a part of evolution? hmm, interresting, can you pleas explain it? and, can you even plas expalin evolution, and how it happeneds? and how the mutation happeneds? (since to you evolution is not adaptation), and why does it happen? and did it start?

imaams

imams, are nothign more than another person, they get married, they work, they don't have any authorities, they just know about the relegion, and they pray with people, means, they lead them in the pray in the mosque, and each friday they talk abou a certin subject, anything, scientific, relegious, social, or whatever, even history.

Humans beings will commit wrong and blame another.
They rarely take responsibility for their own actions. Even the average teenager believes that their right and everyone else is wrong. What feels good is good. Do the parents bear responsibility? Of Course.

But when will the teenager start to take responsibility for his or her own actions?

God made man with the ability choose.

Is it God's fault that you people have your children with out the commitment and responsibility of a Family Arrangement?

Is it God's fault you people don't count the cost of having so many children and can't afford them?

Is it God's fault you don't educate your children toward ethics and morality?


The Present World was made by the Children of the Past. If you want to know why the world is so crappy you should ask your parents.

that's what i was talking about ofr many posts in this thread, the free-will, and it's not god's fault, it's ours.

Please read, The Evolution of God by Robert Wright and you'll have your answer. :)

http://www.amazon.com/Evolution-God-Robert-Wright/dp/0316734918

Do the parents bear responsibility? Of Course.

The Present World was made by the Children of the Past. If you want to know why the world is so crappy you should ask your parents.

Good pont... an those parents shoud ask ther parents... an those parents shoud ask ther parents... Ah Oh... keep doin that an you finaly trace the origin of the prollem bak to God<--- :(


hmm, then, why should the infinit, or, the limited univerce should be also true? do you have evidences rather than theoritical articles? hmm.


I dont know that "anythang" shoud OR shoudnt be true... do you.???



weird that you beleive in the flying spagetty monster, and the green aliens or something, and you don't beleive in god :rolleyes:


I dont have beleifs that any of those thangs esist.!!!



what's the purpose of hell? why should i answer you? you know it, you are just playing to be like you don't know.

I dont thank hell does esist... much less that it has a purpos... but diferent people who beleive hell esists have diferent ideas for what its purpos is... so now what is you'r escuse for not answrin my queston.???



then, killing, fanatism, hypocrecy, being a hore, and etc... are a part of evolution? hmm, interresting, can you pleas explain it? and, can you even plas expalin evolution, and how it happeneds? and how the mutation happeneds? (since to you evolution is not adaptation), and why does it happen? and did it start?

I dout that i coud esplain it to you... much like i dout i coud esplane to a puppy how to read a newspaper :)


...the free-will, and it's not god's fault, it's ours.

Was it Adam an Eves fault they ate of the forbidden fruit.???

Good pont... an those parents shoud ask ther parents... an those parents shoud ask ther parents... Ah Oh... keep doin that an you finaly trace the origin of the prollem bak to God<---


i think you said you don't beleive in god. how are you talking about the origine of the problem, saying that is God, why you don't even beleive in god, like saying, the origin is not real, and, don't exist, there's no origin for the problem, according to you since you're an atheist, i mean, what? sometimes you talk about god as you beleive in , and other say god don't exist? :rolleyes:



I dont know that "anythang" shoud OR shoudnt be true... do you.???

what do you mean?



I dont have beleifs that any of those thangs esist.!!!

'things' not 'thangs' ;)
you do beleive in aliens, effcorse not green wit big eyes, but you do, and, you didnt see any, or, had a material evidence for.


I dont thank hell does esist... much less that it has a purpos... but diferent people who beleive hell esists have diferent ideas for what its purpos is... so now what is you'r escuse for not answrin my queston.???

it's purpose is to punish people, what are the other purposes you are 'talking' about?
and no, it's not an exuce, also, not hell like you see in cartoon or films, an ocean of fire, or, a red dark place, with black magic, or, some ugly monsters torture people, we don't know how it's looks, it's a part of what we call "the unseen"

oh, question, not queston, and, answering, not answrin, and, excuse, not escuse ;)



I dout that i coud esplain it to you... much like i dout i coud esplane to a puppy how to read a newspaper

you mean like your grammar?

anyway, you think you are superior of all people, or, superior or better than me, and you are very high from me, because you don't beleive in god and you think everyone who do is stupid and etc...? like, somekinda you know alot, and you think that kinda you know everything? and most other people are not worth to discuss to you? well, that's very interresting.



Was it Adam an Eves fault they ate of the forbidden fruit.???

weird how you talk about adam and eves while you don't even beleive in them, you have alot, of, opposite things in your talking.
anyway, it's every body self, problem, everyone blame himself first, there are very good parents and know how to raise their children, and adventually, their children become drug-addict, or, criminals, or, a loosers in their life and work, and everything, and there are bad parents, drug-addict, and other bad things, and their children when they grow up become good people, and very responsible.

Oiginally Posted by cluelusshusbund
Good pont... an those parents shoud ask ther parents... an those parents shoud ask ther parents... Ah Oh... keep doin that an you finaly trace the origin of the prollem bak to God<--- ”


Shadow
i think you said you don't beleive in god. how are you talking about the origine of the problem, saying that is God, why you don't even beleive in god, like saying, the origin is not real, and, don't exist, there's no origin for the problem, according to you since you're an atheist, i mean, what? sometimes you talk about god as you beleive in , and other say god don't exist?


Im discussin the issue based on the premise that a Holy Bible type God does esist... an if he does... all the horrible thangs that humans do... occurs because of the poor character he created humans wit.!!!
-------------------

“ I dont know that "anythang" shoud OR shoudnt be true... do you.??? ”



what do you mean?


What was it you said that i replyed to.???
---------------------

“ I dont have beleifs that any of those thangs esist.!!! ”



you do beleive in aliens, effcorse not green wit big eyes, but you do, and, you didnt see any, or, had a material evidence for.


Of course i dont have any material evidence that aliens esist... never said i did... an the rest of what you said is not clames i have made :confused:
----------------------

“ I dont thank hell does esist... much less that it has a purpos... but diferent people who beleive hell esists have diferent ideas for what its purpos is... so now what is you'r escuse for not answrin my queston.??? ”



it's purpose is to punish people, what are the other purposes you are 'talking' about?


Like Lori said... hell is a place for people who want to live thar.!!!

Som say hell is a place whare God tortures people untill they love him.!!!



...not hell like you see in cartoon or films, an ocean of fire, or, a red dark place, with black magic, or, some ugly monsters torture people, we don't know how it's looks, it's a part of what we call "the unseen"


On a scale of 1 to 10... 1 bein a pencil shoved up you'r noise... an 10 bein you'r hind leg chewed off... whare woud you rate hell.???
----------------------

“ I dout that i coud esplain it to you... much like i dout i coud esplane to a puppy how to read a newspaper ”



you mean like your grammar?


Yes.!!!



anyway, you think you are superior of all people, or, superior or better than me, and you are very high from me, because you don't beleive in god and you think everyone who do is stupid and etc...? like, somekinda you know alot, and you think that kinda you know everything? and most other people are not worth to discuss to you? well, that's very interresting.


Well... the way i see it personaly is... that not beleivin in you'r God who woud punish people in hell is a much superior moral position... however... the stoopidity of somone can not be determined soley on whether they beleive in a God or not... an as far as me knowin a lot... i prolly rate in the lower 5 % of the people postin at Sciforums... an the peopole i figer who are not wort discussin wit... i dont discuss wit... ka-peach :)
-------------------

“ Was it Adam an Eves fault they ate of the forbidden fruit.??? ”



weird how you talk about adam and eves while you don't even beleive in them, you have alot, of, opposite things in your talking.


I enjoy discussin all sorts of fiction includin the Holey Bible :shrug:



anyway, it's every body self, problem, everyone blame himself first, there are very good parents and know how to raise their children, and adventually, their children become drug-addict, or, criminals, or, a loosers in their life and work, and everything, and there are bad parents, drug-addict, and other bad things, and their children when they grow up become good people, and very responsible.


Whats you'r pont.???

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
Evoluton has been goin on for a bit longer than recorded history.!!! ”



I dout that a 1 cell animal did much thankin about intentions or desires... but over time life evolved an produced humans esactly the way we curently are... which includes the esact desires an intentions we curently have.!!!
------------

“ Its not an excuse... its an esplination for human behavior.!!! ”



Acknowledgin the cause of somptin is not an escuse.!!!

it's absolutely a cop out. one celled animals are not people. and now that we've developed minds, we are free to use them.
----------


“ At sunday school one time they told us that God is always wit us... always watchin us... well that nite when i was takin a bath i remenbered that an thout it was peerty creepy that som old man was in the bathroom watchin me take a bath ”



God... the bearded old man they showed us pitchers of.!!!

you have grown up quite a bit since then and realized that was a silly notion right?

1) It was meant to be a bit sick.. But the way Clueluss wrote out what he did, made me envision what I wrote.

2) Some don't even grow up with "real" parents, or any for that matter.

And how do you KNOW God is perfect?..Did he tell you this, or are you assuming?

3) Very true..But, do you think the only way to like/love yourself, is to know a God? You can't live a happy life without one?

4) True, none of us are perfect...Not even close. Again, how do you KNOW God is perfect? Unless he told you this himself, there is no proof.

And I have to disagree with your last statement..I don't think EVERYONE would benefit from "knowing" God.. Many have lived very happy lives without knowing or believing in any God. Some have never even heard of any God.

i think perfection is implicit in what god is. if god is the creator and law maker, then god defines what perfect is. what god has shown me is that he knows me better than i know myself. i guess that goes along with the whole omniscient, omnipresent thing.

it's really not about being happy grem. i mean, ignorance is bliss right?

it's absolutely a cop out. one celled animals are not people. and now that we've developed minds, we are free to use them.


Evoluton is a fact... not a cop out... but like you'r God... free will is jus somptin else i dont have beleifs in.!!!



you have grown up quite a bit since then and realized that was a silly notion right?

Well sure... but even at 8 years old i suspected that the Jesus storys was a load of crap.!!!
----------------------



it's really not about being happy...

Thats anuther thang about religion... it can cause people to sacrafice happyness for beleifs in an afterlife :-(

i think perfection is implicit in what god is. if god is the creator and law maker, then god defines what perfect is. what god has shown me is that he knows me better than i know myself. i guess that goes along with the whole omniscient, omnipresent thing.

I think the fact that we exist disproves the omnipotent/omniscience of your god! We are a pretty fvcked up species to have been created by a supreme being.

KRR

Evoluton is a fact... not a cop out... but like you'r God... free will is jus somptin else i dont have beleifs in.!!!

the fact is, that the more we've evolved, the more we've acquired the ability to use our minds to acquire knowledge, and make decisions and choices.




Well sure... but even at 8 years old i suspected that the Jesus storys was a load of crap.!!!

so in all of your infinite wisdom at 8 years old you made this decision based upon a picture of a humanized father. brilliant. not quite as brilliant as someone who would equate god with an old man in the sky, and depict god in that manner, but damn close.
----------------------




Thats anuther thang about religion... it can cause people to sacrafice happyness for beleifs in an afterlife :-(

i can't even think of a euphemism to respond to this with. there is nothing positive to say to someone who is pro-ignorance. :shrug:

it doesn't have anything to do with happiness, and it doesn't have anything to do with an afterlife. it has to do with life and knowledge.

I think the fact that we exist disproves the omnipotent/omniscience of your god! We are a pretty fvcked up species to have been created by a supreme being.

KRR

what would make you think that god is done with us?

Lori
the fact is, that the more we've evolved, the more we've acquired the ability to use our minds to acquire knowledge, and make decisions and choices.


Do you thank God is pleased wit the way his creaton plan is turnin out.???
-----------------

“even at 8 years old i suspected that the Jesus storys was a load of crap.!!! ”



so in all of your infinite wisdom at 8 years old you made this decision based upon a picture of a humanized father. brilliant. not quite as brilliant as someone who would equate god with an old man in the sky, and depict god in that manner, but damn close.


Yep... when i was 8... i looked up an ask a sunday school teecher if Jesus an God was the sam person... she looked over at the other teecher an jus kinda smiled... she didnt answr... jus directed me to continue on wit other activities... that was a simular kind of reacton i got when i was askin my parents if Santa was real... so even befor my sunday school queston abouut Jesus/God... i knew that Adults told fantastic lyes about such thangs... i was about 9 when we was showed what God looked like... an told that hes always watchin us... course... i had also been told that
Sants watches us to know if we have been bad or good... yep... lyes upon lyes... lol.!!!
--------------------

“ Thats anuther thang about religion... it can cause people to sacrafice happyness for beleifs in an afterlife :-( ”



i can't even think of a euphemism to respond to this with. there is nothing positive to say to someone who is pro-ignorance.


Mayb youv'e been stunned by the truth.???



it doesn't have anything to do with happiness, and it doesn't have anything to do with an afterlife. it has to do with life and knowledge.


Happyness is at the top of my list... but If i was religious like you i mite also see happyness as irrelevent :shrug:

what would make you think that god is done with us?

Are you saying that he/she/it fvcked up on the first try? :eek::eek: and he needs to fix his mistake????

KRR

Are you saying that he/she/it fvcked up on the first try? :eek::eek: and he needs to fix his mistake????

KRR

God did fug-up on his firs try so he drowned ever man woman child an all other animals on earf to fix his mistake... but it seems strange that hes happy wit his second try... sinse among other countless horrors... thousands of children dye ever day from starvaton/disease :confused:

Oiginally Posted by cluelusshusbund
Good pont... an those parents shoud ask ther parents... an those parents shoud ask ther parents... Ah Oh... keep doin that an you finaly trace the origin of the prollem bak to God<--- ”



Im discussin the issue based on the premise that a Holy Bible type God does esist... an if he does... all the horrible thangs that humans do... occurs because of the poor character he created humans wit.!!!
-------------------


the caracter that god created us in, is a white page, you form it as you want, we form our selves, we also have the free will, we maked our societies, we maked ourselves, we should blame our selves, beleiving in god, doesnt mean to keep blaming god, or something like that, or, for each subject, you say, it's god! for example, who bombed hiroshima? say it's god??!! no, we can't blame god, god created us as a white page, and gave us the free will, we form our selves, and we onyl should blame our selves.



“ I dont have beleifs that any of those thangs esist.!!! ”

Of course i dont have any material evidence that aliens esist... never said i did... an the rest of what you said is not clames i have made :confused:
----------------------
ahaa. :rolleyes:





Som say hell is a place whare God tortures people untill they love him.!!!

deffrently not



On a scale of 1 to 10... 1 bein a pencil shoved up you'r noise... an 10 bein you'r hind leg chewed off... whare woud you rate hell.???
----------------------
i don't know what do you mean, can you repeat it in another form? normally?



an as far as me knowin a lot... i prolly rate in the lower 5 % of the people postin at Sciforums.
-------------------


a person who thinks that he knows alot, or knows everything, means he don't know anything, and a person who know much,or, well, many things, knows that he don't know anything, and as much he knows more, as much as he don't know more.




I enjoy discussin all sorts of fiction includin the Holey Bible

i'm not christian ;)


Whats you'r pont.???
ha, what's my point? ok, means, that it's not always parents fault, i know some very good parents and know how to raise their children, and then,, when the children elave the country, or the son, get evolved in drugs, and stuff, and there are bad parents, always fighting, closed, etc etc... dictator parents, and their children become the contrary when they grow up, and become very responsible and caring, and etc...

Evoluton is a fact... not a cop out... but like you'r God... free will is jus somptin else i dont have beleifs in.!!!

so what? i beleive in god, and in evolution/adaptation.



Well sure... but even at 8 years old i suspected that the Jesus storys was a load of crap.!!!
----------------------


jesus(pbuh), was a human like me and you, and he was a messenger, spreading the relegion of beleiving in one god, but he's not the son of god, neither god.

i'll continue to reply later, gtg now, i'm busy

Shadow
the caracter that god created us in, is a white page...


Did God know beforhand that Adam an Eve woud eat of the forbidden fruit.???
------------------

Som say hell is a place whare God tortures people untill they love him.!!! ”



deffrently not


How do you know this... an are you certan.???
----------------

To help esplane to me how horrible a place you thank hell is... i want you to rate it on a scale of 1 thru 10... so on the scale i have provided below... woud you rate hell as a 1... a 10... or som number in between 1 to 10.???

“ On a scale of 1 to 10... 1 bein a pencil shoved up you'r noise... an 10 bein you'r hind leg chewed off... whare on that scale woud you rate hell.???
----------------------



a person who thinks that he knows alot, or knows everything, means he don't know anything, and a person who know much,or, well, many things, knows that he don't know anything, and as much he knows more, as much as he don't know more.


I coudnt have said it beter myself :)
-----------------

I enjoy discussin all sorts of fiction includin the Holey Bible ”



i'm not christian


oK... incert "koran" for Holey Bible in my above statment... eh :)
---------------



ha, what's my point? ok, means, that it's not always parents fault,


So in those cases its the kids fault.???



i beleive in god, and in evolution/adaptation.


So you realize that humans an apes share a common ancestor.???



jesus(pbuh), was a human like me and you, and he was a messenger, spreading the relegion of beleiving in one god, but he's not the son of god, neither god.


How do you know this... an are you certan.???

Are you saying that he/she/it fvcked up on the first try? :eek::eek: and he needs to fix his mistake????

KRR

no i'm not; i think it's all part of the plan, and i find it very encouraging that you realize we're fucked up. some people think we're fine?!?! hahahaha. :confused:

The answer to the OP is simple. My god is responsible for all the good stuff and your god is responsible for all the shitty stuff.

Do you thank God is pleased wit the way his creaton plan is turnin out.???

sure.
-----------------


“even at 8 years old i suspected that the Jesus storys was a load of crap.!!! ”



Yep... when i was 8... i looked up an ask a sunday school teecher if Jesus an God was the sam person... she looked over at the other teecher an jus kinda smiled... she didnt answr... jus directed me to continue on wit other activities... that was a simular kind of reacton i got when i was askin my parents if Santa was real... so even befor my sunday school queston abouut Jesus/God... i knew that Adults told fantastic lyes about such thangs... i was about 9 when we was showed what God looked like... an told that hes always watchin us... course... i had also been told that
Sants watches us to know if we have been bad or good... yep... lyes upon lyes... lol.!!!

well, it does sound very convenient for you (considering your priorities) to leave it all up to others (in sunday school of all places), and still to this day, to believe that god and santa claus are pretty much the same thing. way to miss the point.
--------------------


“ Thats anuther thang about religion... it can cause people to sacrafice happyness for beleifs in an afterlife :-( ”



Mayb youv'e been stunned by the truth.???



Happyness is at the top of my list... but If i was religious like you i mite also see happyness as irrelevent :shrug:

no, i'm stunned by a pro-ignorance agenda. i'm not sure why, as so many follow this agenda. most people aren't willing to admit that so blatantly though. better keep those blinders on tight clueless.

Do you thank God is pleased wit the way his creaton plan is turnin out.???
-----------------


how many times should i say we blame our selves? we have the free-will, some of us are very bad, and some of us are ery good, infact, better than angels, because they have freewill, while angels don't, also, we are free to do anything, and we have teh choise to make a bad world, or a good world. :shrug:

Oiginally Posted by cluelusshusbund
Good pont... an those parents shoud ask ther parents... an those parents shoud ask ther parents... .

ok, first, you're an atheist right? you beleive that we all have the free will and we do what ever we want, we can, (but effcorse you take in count the society and other stuff that we created it) also, you know that the world, as it is today, is shaped from our choises, right? then, why when it comes about beleiving in god, you say that god made the world as it is and planned every detail in our life, and etc... and we don't have the free will, or or or...?:shrug:

your posts are very opposite to each other :shrug:

Are you saying that he/she/it fvcked up on the first try? :eek::eek: and he needs to fix his mistake????

KRR

go back to sleep, lol

God did fug-up on his firs try so he drowned ever man woman child an all other animals on earf to fix his mistake... but it seems strange that hes happy wit his second try... sinse among other countless horrors... thousands of children dye ever day from starvaton/disease :confused:

again, we have the free-will, and blablablabla, saying it almost 6 times...

God did fug-up on his firs try so he drowned ever man woman child an all other animals on earf to fix his mistake... but it seems strange that hes happy wit his second try... sinse among other countless horrors... thousands of children dye ever day from starvaton/disease :confused:

again, we have the free-will, and blablablabla, saying it almost 6 times...
also you said you don't beleive in god, and now you're talking about god? you don't even beleive in god.
and everything, is our choises.
oh, and, the children who die from hunger,children who do bad things, and they are matures yet, people who die in travel, in work, in war defending he's country, and etc... are all going to heaven, directly, and people who also get killed, and they innocent, also go directly to heaven.
i mean, automaticly, noy directly

Did God know beforhand that Adam an Eve woud eat of the forbidden fruit.???
------------------
idk-------------------------
Som say hell is a place whare God tortures people untill they love him.!!! ”




How do you know this... an are you certan.???
----------------

how do you know that god don't exist? an are you certan.???
yes i am certan, and i know this because in the judgement god, there's no second chance, there's only the judgement, and that's it, people had their hall life to have alooooot of chances, there's no just a second chance or a third chance, there's always chances, to go back to the doing of good and beleive in god, and help others if you can.



To help esplane to me how horrible a place you thank hell is... i want you to rate it on a scale of 1 thru 10... so on the scale i have provided below... woud you rate hell as a 1... a 10... or som number in between 1 to 10.???

ok, i rate it ]-infinity;+infinity[, not just 10. if you can't imagine the most horrible thing on here(well, you can, by movies, but, what if tested it on your self?), how can you imagine it their?



I coudnt have said it beter myself :)
-----------------


hmm, that means you are really ingnorant, i don't mean in relegion i mean in all, a person who think that he knows alot and more than others and etc... is a person who really don't know that much.



So in those cases its the kids fault.???

yes, not saying parents don't had a part of it, but also, the kid, i mean, after he become grow up, after being a teenanger, he's grown up, and he can know the difference between good and bad and etc... responsible, so what? i mean, many people their tortured and died and raped in front of their eyes, and they didnt become criminals or murders, others lived a harsh and a bad childhood with their parents, an they didnt become criminals, and etc... but also, as i said, parents do have a part effcorse. but doenst mean that kids couldnt choose and manage themselves when they growed up.



So you realize that humans an apes share a common ancestor.???

all the things that you can find in our bodies, i mean, the ingredients, are all in a muddpie, were we developed from soil? we also share 98% dna with some bugs (sorry i forgot what's it's name, saw it on national geography once) why you don't say we developed from bugs?
anyway, it's my opinion, so? and then?




How do you know this... an are you certan.???

know what?

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
Did God know beforhand that Adam an Eve woud eat of the forbidden fruit.???



idk


Is God all-knowin.???
---------------

Som say hell is a place whare God tortures people untill they love him... are you certan this is not true.???



yes i am certan...


Not surprized... an the thang that mos God beleivers are certan about... is that anybody who beleives somptin diferent from them... are rong... lol.!!!



how do you know that god don't exist? an are you certan.???


I dont know for certan that God dont esist.!!!
---------------

“ To help esplane to me how horrible a place you thank hell is... i want you to rate it on a scale of 1 thru 10... so on the scale i have provided below... woud you rate hell as a 1... a 10... or som number in between 1 to 10.??? ”



ok, i rate it ]-infinity;+infinity[, not just 10. if you can't imagine the most horrible thing on here(well, you can, by movies, but, what if tested it on your self?), how can you imagine it their?


So woud infinity + infinity be as bad as burnin in a firy pit.???
--------------

“ I coudnt have said it beter myself



hmm, that means you are really ingnorant, i don't mean in relegion i mean in all, a person who think that he knows alot and more than others and etc... is a person who really don't know that much.


But i admited that you said it beter than i coud have :bawl:
------------------

“ So in those cases its the kids fault.??? ”



yes...


What causes kids to be bad even when they have perfect parents.???
-----------------

“ So you realize that humans an apes share a common ancestor.??? ”



all the things that you can find in our bodies, i mean, the ingredients, are all in a muddpie, were we developed from soil? we also share 98% dna with some bugs (sorry i forgot what's it's name, saw it on national geography once) why you don't say we developed from bugs?
anyway, it's my opinion, so? and then?


So is that a yes or a no... do you realize that humans an apes share a common ancestor.???



jesus(pbuh), was a human like me and you, and he was a messenger, spreading the relegion of beleiving in one god, but he's not the son of god, neither god.


How do you know those thangs are true... an are you certan that those thangs are true.???

...i'm stunned by a pro-ignorance agenda. i'm not sure why, as so many follow this agenda. most people aren't willing to admit that so blatantly though. better keep those blinders on tight clueless.

I know-I know... people foller that agenda because they enjoy livin on earf/hell... yes.???

ok, first, you're an atheist right?


Im a New Age Christan Atheist.!!!



you beleive that we all have the free will...


No... beleif in free will is jus anuther beleif i dont have.!!!



and we do what ever we want, we can, (but effcorse you take in count the society and other stuff that we created it) also, you know that the world, as it is today, is shaped from our choises, right?


I thank the idea of "free-choise" is an illusion.!!!



...why when it comes about beleiving in god, you say that god made the world as it is and planned every detail in our life, and etc... and we don't have the free will, or or or...?:shrug:


I dont have beleifs that you'r God even esists... im discussin YOU'R God beleifs.!!!

I know-I know... people foller that agenda because they enjoy livin on earf/hell... yes.???

i have no idea. i can't relate.

in one breath you're condemning god for raped babies, and in the next claiming how happy shmappy you are. that seems illogical to me.

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
I know-I know... people foller that agenda because they enjoy livin on earf/hell... yes.???


i have no idea. i can't relate.


What is the purpos of hell.???



to give the people who desire this kind of an existence a place to have it.


See.... you did know the answr... eh :)



in one breath you're condemning god for raped babies, and in the next claiming how happy shmappy you are. that seems illogical to me.

I dont comdem you'r God... i dont have beleifs it esists... its you'r beleif that God created this mess... an you refuse to acknowledge... that but for God... ther woudnt be any raped babies... mater of fact... you clame that God is pleased wit the way his creaton plan is goin (raped babies an all).!!!

You live here in hell... are you ever happy... in spite of all the horrors that occur.???

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
I know-I know... people foller that agenda because they enjoy livin on earf/hell... yes.???



What is the purpos of hell.???



See.... you did know the answr... eh :)



I dont comdem you'r God... i dont have beleifs it esists... its you'r beleif that God created this mess... an you refuse to acknowledge... that but for God... ther woudnt be any raped babies... mater of fact... you clame that God is pleased wit the way his creaton plan is goin (raped babies an all).!!!

You live here in hell... are you ever happy... in spite of all the horrors that occur.???

you know what? you're pissing me off. you have no argument. you're argument is that there is no god, we have no free will, and as long as your ass is happy shmappy, that's all that really matters. and that is absolute bullshit.

what isn't bullshit is that there is a god. i know god. and there is law, and if we recognized it, and acted according to it, there wouldn't be a mess. there wouldn't be suffering.

i know goddamn well that i have a choice. 24/7, every day i live on this earth, i have a choice to love or to hate, to rape babies or not, to buy in or not, and i do not buy it! i will not buy what this fucking world is trying to sell me. you know what they package it as? HAPPINESS...DUMB FUCK!

you can find happiness in selfishness. you can find happiness in greed. you can find happiness in lust. hey, guess what? mother fuckers raping babies are happy they're raping babies. they're the most happy when they're raping babies. so if you want me to give a shit about something you can find in the bottom of a bottle or in a baby's vagina, or in a fucking bowl of fucking steel cut oatmeal, then fuck you.

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
Do you thank God gave everbody an euqal amount of free will.???



Well mayb so... dependin on what you thank free will is... I see it as bein able to make uninfluended choises... how do you define free will.???
free will is to have the scope for independent action, and I think it also absolutely requires the ability to make influenced choices (otherwise how on earth would one change one's mind or make any sort of decision?)

...you're argument is that there is no god, we have no free will, and as long as your ass is happy shmappy, that's all that really matters. and that is absolute bullshit.


Thers no evidence for free will or that you'r God esists... an i thank happyness is under rated.!!!



what isn't bullshit is that there is a god. i know god. and there is law, and if we recognized it, and acted according to it, there wouldn't be a mess. there wouldn't be suffering.


You'r all-knowin God intentionaly created hell on earf... an intimidates people into takin the blame for the horror hes responsible for.!!!



i know goddamn well that i have a choice. 24/7, every day i live on this earth, i have a choice to love or to hate, to rape babies or not, to buy in or not, and i do not buy it! i will not buy what this fucking world is trying to sell me. you know what they package it as? HAPPINESS...DUMB FUCK!


Som people atempt to foller in Gods footsteps by continuin to create a personal hell on earf for themselfs.!!!



you can find happiness in selfishness. you can find happiness in greed. you can find happiness in lust. hey, guess what? mother fuckers raping babies are happy they're raping babies. they're the most happy when they're raping babies. so if you want me to give a shit about something you can find in the bottom of a bottle or in a baby's vagina, or in a fucking bowl of fucking steel cut oatmeal, then fuck you.

We play the cards we hold an som people are screwed from the get-go;;; whether from Gods sadistic creation plan or an impersonal evolution... an som people seek happynes in such ways that lead to desaster for themself an others such as rapin babys or stayin stuck on stoopid by sacrificin ther happyness on earf for an imaginary life after death... me... i esperience happynes even in simple thangs such as steel cut oats an the grate bread i make.!!!

free will is to have the scope for independent action, and I think it also absolutely requires the ability to make influenced choices (otherwise how on earth would one change one's mind or make any sort of decision?)

I think the terminology becomes a bit confusing here, because it tacitly imports assumptions/premises from their original or popularized contexts.

Without providing the wider philosophical context, I am beginning to think it becomes pointless to talk about free will, determinism, in/dependence, influence, as these will have different meanings in different philosophies.

free will is to have the scope for independent action,...


Not sure what you mean by scope... but im sure i agree wit the "independent action" part.!!!



and I think it also absolutely requires the ability to make influenced choices (otherwise how on earth would one change one's mind or make any sort of decision?)

Yeah... ther-in lyes the rub... cause... dew to cause an effect... ever choise is influenced... hinse... "independent action" is an illusion.!!!

Below is a link to a thred whare the notion of free will is curently bein discussed... Sarkus an som others have very-clearly presented the case that free will bein an illusion is the logical position.!!!

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=104231

Not sure what you mean by scope... but im sure i agree wit the "independent action" part.!!!



Yeah... ther-in lyes the rub... cause... dew to cause an effect... ever choise is influenced... hinse... "independent action" is an illusion.!!!
that leaves you totally unable to explain how one can surmount influence


Below is a link to a thred whare the notion of free will is curently bein discussed... Sarkus an som others have very-clearly presented the case that free will bein an illusion is the logical position.!!!
i'm pretty sure that when sarkus decides to sleep on either his left side or right side, he does so because it is the logical position
:o

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
Not sure what you mean by scope... but im sure i agree wit the "independent action" part.!!!

Yeah... ther-in lyes the rub... cause... dew to cause an effect... ever choise is influenced... hinse... "independent action" is an illusion.!!! ”



that leaves you totally unable to explain how one can surmount influence


One cant... its you who i dout can offer a logical argument of how a causal chane of events can be broken in such a way which will allow for free-will.!!!
-----------------------

Below is a link to a thred whare the notion of free will is curently bein discussed... Sarkus an som others have very-clearly presented the case that free will bein an illusion is the logical position.!!!



i'm pretty sure that when sarkus decides to sleep on either his left side or right side, he does so because it is the logical position


Interestin thout... com an partisipate in the the thred link below for a mor complete understandin of the logic of free will bein an illusion.. eh :)

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=104231

One cannot surmount influence per se.
But one can surmount one influence in favor of another influence.

One cannot surmount influence per se.
But one can surmount one influence in favor of another influence.
sure

so are all influences binding or are some liberating?

Thers no evidence for free will or that you'r God esists... an i thank happyness is under rated.!!!



You'r all-knowin God intentionaly created hell on earf... an intimidates people into takin the blame for the horror hes responsible for.!!!



Som people atempt to foller in Gods footsteps by continuin to create a personal hell on earf for themselfs.!!!



We play the cards we hold an som people are screwed from the get-go;;; whether from Gods sadistic creation plan or an impersonal evolution... an som people seek happynes in such ways that lead to desaster for themself an others such as rapin babys or stayin stuck on stoopid by sacrificin ther happyness on earf for an imaginary life after death... me... i esperience happynes even in simple thangs such as steel cut oats an the grate bread i make.!!!

the fact that we make choices and decisions all day long every day is ample evidence of free will.

given that free will, we are held accountable.

happiness is entirely overrated in this world, and when it comes to truth and knowledge, is entirely irrelevant.

sure

so are all influences binding or are some liberating?

Obviously, there seem to be these two kinds of influences.



(Heh, there is an inside joke in Buddhism: Some people refuse to submit to the teachings of the Buddha, because if they submitted, they would attain a lesser kind of enlightenment than he - as there can be only one rightfully self-awakened Buddha per era. So they rather set their hopes on some birth in the distant distant future, when the teachings of the current Buddha will all have gotten lost, and there will therefore be circumstances for a new Buddha to appear - in the hopes that they will be that Buddha-to-be.
Talk about the desire for absolute free will!)

the fact that we make choices and decisions all day long every day is ample evidence of free will.


Well i be dam... its jus that simple... eh:)



given that free will, we are held accountable.


Bein held acountable while alive is plenty for me to deal wit... i can only emagin the burdon of beleivin God is gonna continue to "get-me" even after i dye :runaway:



happiness is entirely overrated in this world,
and when it comes to truth and knowledge, is entirely irrelevant.

Does truth and knowledge make you happy.???

Well i be dam... its jus that simple... eh:)

yes, it is.




Bein held acountable while alive is plenty for me to deal wit... i can only emagin the burdon of beleivin God is gonna continue to "get-me" even after i dye :runaway:


"get you"? what in the hell are you talking about? given law, freewill, and accountability, you "get" yourself.



Does truth and knowledge make you happy.???

no. it's entirely irrelevant to happiness, for the 87th time.

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
Bein held acountable while alive is plenty for me to deal wit... i can only emagin the burdon of beleivin God is gonna continue to "get-me" even after i dye :runaway:


Lori
"get you"? what in the hell are you talking about? given law, freewill, and accountability, you "get" yourself.


Yep... God created the circumstances which causes people to get-got an blame therselfs... lol.!!!
-----------------

Does truth and knowledge make you happy.???



no. it's entirely irrelevant to happiness, for the 87th time.


I know that truth an knowledge an steel cut oats dont make you happy... but what... if anythang... does make you happy.???

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
Bein held acountable while alive is plenty for me to deal wit... i can only emagin the burdon of beleivin God is gonna continue to "get-me" even after i dye :runaway:



Yep... God created the circumstances which causes people to get-got an blame therselfs... lol.!!!
-----------------

we all have every opportunity in the world, given our circumstances. what a bullshit copout. first of all, the whole message of the bible is repentance, forgiveness, and redemption. and secondly, you think all of our excuses are valid do you? well what a pushover you must be. here's a scenario you'll just love...a kid is raped when they're a baby, so obviously they are all fucked up, through absolutely no fault of their own, going in. and throughout life, they always face the CHOICE. they can use their self-hatred and the fact that they've been hurt by another as an excuse to hurt others. OR, they can acknowledge their true value and power in this world (love), and use their empathy to help others.



Does truth and knowledge make you happy.???



I know that truth an knowledge an steel cut oats dont make you happy... but what... if anythang... does make you happy.???

lots of things, but not all the time. AND SO WHAT?!?!? :confused:

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
Yep... God created the circumstances which causes people to get-got an blame therselfs... lol.!!!



we all have every opportunity in the world, given our circumstances. what a bullshit copout.


Does sombody wit an iq of a turnip have ever opportunity in the world.???



first of all, the whole message of the bible is repentance, forgiveness, and redemption. and secondly, you think all of our excuses are valid do you? well what a pushover you must be.


I thank all effects have causes... an walkin an anuther mans shoes woud be an eye-opener for you.!!!



here's a scenario you'll just love...a kid is raped when they're a baby, so obviously they are all fucked up, through absolutely no fault of their own, going in.

and throughout life, they always face the CHOICE. they can use their self-hatred and the fact that they've been hurt by another as an excuse to hurt others. OR, they can acknowledge their true value and power in this world (love), and use their empathy to help others.


So you an God espect all people... no mater what trama they mite have esperienced or mental illness they mite have... to jus "walk it off" an help others :cool:
--------------

I know that truth an knowledge an steel cut oats dont make you happy... but what... if anythang... does make you happy.??? ”



lots of things, but not all the time. AND SO WHAT?!?!?


O good... then you can answr this queston:::
On a happyness scale from 1 to 10... 1 bein the mos miserable you have ever been... an 10 bein the mos happy you have ever been... number wize... whare on that scale do you perfer... an what percentage of time woud you like to be at that number.???

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
Yep... God created the circumstances which causes people to get-got an blame therselfs... lol.!!!



Does sombody wit an iq of a turnip have ever opportunity in the world.???

yes, every opportunity for a person with the iq of a turnip, and that's plenty. are you trying to discount the meaning of life for those who aren't "smart"? wow. i've known a lot of "smart" people who were really stupid, and vice versa.




I thank all effects have causes... an walkin an anuther mans shoes woud be an eye-opener for you.!!!

walking in my own's been quite enough. the fact is that a person doesn't ever have to open their eyes if they don't want to. doesn't matter what path you walk.




So you an God espect all people... no mater what trama they mite have esperienced or mental illness they mite have... to jus "walk it off" an help others :cool:
--------------

"walk it off"? it requires a hell of a lot more than that.


I know that truth an knowledge an steel cut oats dont make you happy... but what... if anythang... does make you happy.??? ”



O good... then you can answr this queston:::
On a happyness scale from 1 to 10... 1 bein the mos miserable you have ever been... an 10 bein the mos happy you have ever been... number wize... whare on that scale do you perfer... an what percentage of time woud you like to be at that number.???

there have been times when i have sacrificed my happiness quite a bit to attain knowledge. i don't think it's possible for anyone with a heart to take an honest look at this world and not feel that. there have also been times when i've used the knowledge i've attained during these trying times to make decisions which resulted in my happiness in many ways. there have also been times when the pursuit of happiness was very destructive to myself and the people around me.

i'm telling you...it's fucking irrelevant.

i'm telling you...it's fucking irrelevant.

So what is you'r ultimate gole.???

So what is you'r ultimate gole.???

Manifesting christ's kingdom on earth.

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
So what is you'r ultimate gole.???


Manifesting christ's kingdom on earth.

Do you thank acheivin that gole woud make you very happy.???

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
So what is you'r ultimate gole.???



Do you thank acheivin that gole woud make you very happy.???


well, i have had an ongoing opportunity to work towards achieving that goal, and it has made me happy at times, and very unhappy at times. so like i've said how many times now? it's entirely irrelevant.

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
So what is you'r ultimate gole.???



Manifesting christ's kingdom on earth.


Do you thank acheivin that gole woud make you very happy.???


well, i have had an ongoing opportunity to work towards achieving that goal, and it has made me happy at times, and very unhappy at times. so like i've said how many times now? it's entirely irrelevant.

oK... but my queston wasnt about you'r happyness level durin the journey.... my queston is about you actualy acheivin you'r gole:::

Do you thank acheivin you'r gole of Manifestin christs kingdom on earf woud make you very happy.???

''Whose God Is Responsible" for the conditions of the world that we live in?
There is no god. Humans are responsible.

There is no god. Humans are responsible.
kind of a no-brainer if one insists on defining god to provincial tastes (as in posing "whose god")

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
So what is you'r ultimate gole.???



Do you thank acheivin that gole woud make you very happy.???



oK... but my queston wasnt about you'r happyness level durin the journey.... my queston is about you actualy acheivin you'r gole:::

Do you thank acheivin you'r gole of Manifestin christs kingdom on earf woud make you very happy.???

i don't know, and it just doesn't matter.

Lori
i have had an ongoing opportunity to work towards achieving that goal, and it has made me happy at times, and very unhappy at times.


Do you thank acheivin you'r gole of Manifestin christs kingdom on earf woud make you very happy.???


i don't know, and it just doesn't matter.

You have esperienced happyness an sadness on you'r journey of acheivin you'r gole... which do you prefer... to be happy or sad.???

Do you thank acheivin you'r gole of Manifestin christs kingdom on earf woud make you very happy.???



You have esperienced happyness an sadness on you'r journey of acheivin you'r gole... which do you prefer... to be happy or sad.???

i prefer whatever is appropriate given the circumstance i suppose. honestly, i may prefer to be relatively unaffected by my emotions altogether. :shrug:

i may prefer to be relatively unaffected by my emotions altogether. :shrug:

What drives you to manifest Christs kingdom on earf if in the end you are an emotionless zomby for eternity.???

What drives you to manifest Christs kingdom on earf if in the end you are an emotionless zomby for eternity.???

i didn't say that i was or would ever be an emotionless zombie. my point is that emotions are irrelevant when it comes to things like truth and freedom and peace.

What drives you to manifest Christs kingdom on earf if in the end you are an emotionless zomby for eternity.???


i didn't say that i was or would ever be an emotionless zombie. my point is that emotions are irrelevant when it comes to things like truth and freedom and peace.

If i coudnt be happy... i woudnt want to live for eternity even if it did include truth freedom an peace... woud you.???

If i coudnt be happy... i woudnt want to live for eternity even if it did include truth freedom an peace... woud you.???

well, i've had no problem forsaking my happiness before, and i would never take my own life so, again...it's irrelevant.

i mean come on clueless, you know as well as i do that you can be happy one day and sad the next, and nothing's changed except your perception or your state of mind, or perhaps your hormones.

it's irrelevant!

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
If i coudnt be happy... i woudnt want to live for eternity even if it did include truth freedom an peace... woud you.???


well, i've had no problem forsaking my happiness before, and i would never take my own life so, again...it's irrelevant.

i mean come on clueless, you know as well as i do that you can be happy one day and sad the next, and nothing's changed except your perception or your state of mind, or perhaps your hormones.

it's irrelevant!

Well how about this:::

If eternal life included NEVER bein happy... i woudnt want that eternal life even if it did include truth freedom an peace... woud you.???

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
If i coudnt be happy... i woudnt want to live for eternity even if it did include truth freedom an peace... woud you.???



Well how about this:::

If eternal life included NEVER bein happy... i woudnt want that eternal life even if it did include truth freedom an peace... woud you.???

yes.

yes.

Do you thank you'r view that "happyness is irrevelent"... is helpful... or a necessity in acheivin communion wit God.???

Do you thank you'r view that "happyness is irrevelent"... is helpful... or a necessity in acheivin communion wit God.???

yeah maybe. i guess it depends on the person, but we're all pretty conditioned to making what the bible calls the desires of our flesh a priority. to make communion a priority requires some sacrifice that initially is uncomfortable (for me it is anyway).

If i coudnt be happy... i woudnt want to live for eternity even if it did include truth freedom an peace... woud you.?Who would want to live forever in a state of unhappiness? That would qualify as torture. It would certainly not be anyone's definition of "heaven"!
yes.What are you, a masochist?
. . . . we're all pretty conditioned to making what the bible calls the desires of our flesh a priority.Happiness is a condition of "the flesh"??? Who comes up with these idiotic definitions??? If anything, happiness is a condition of "the spirit."
To make communion a priority requires some sacrifice that initially is uncomfortable.To be unhappy for all eternity is only "initially uncomfortable?" Then you get used to it and you don't mind being miserable? This is what Abrahamic religion has to offer, and people go for it?

Who would want to live forever in a state of unhappiness?


Sinse Bible-God is sadistic i dout he woud have much use for somone who thanks hayypness is irrelevent... yep... God wants people like me who enjoys happyness... then he can have the pleasure of takin our happyness from us.!!!

It apears to me that Lori will get to go to hell an im doomed to eternity in heaven :runaway:

Who would want to live forever in a state of unhappiness? That would qualify as torture. It would certainly not be anyone's definition of "heaven"!What are you, a masochist?

i didn't say that would be my desire, or that would be the outcome. what i said was that imo, it's irrelevant.


Happiness is a condition of "the flesh"??? Who comes up with these idiotic definitions??? If anything, happiness is a condition of "the spirit."

i think turning what i said into a definition is a stretch. my point is, in both cases, sometimes it is, and sometimes it isn't. that's why i say it's irrelevant.


To be unhappy for all eternity is only "initially uncomfortable?" Then you get used to it and you don't mind being miserable? This is what Abrahamic religion has to offer, and people go for it?

no, but depriving yourself of things like greed, or lust, or pride, being humbled, accepting authority, accountability, being introspective...these things are initially uncomfortable. having a spiritual experience can make you quite uncomfortable. we're just not conditioned in society, or even by our own nature to consider this.

Sinse Bible-God is sadistic i dout he woud have much use for somone who thanks hayypness is irrelevent... yep... God wants people like me who enjoys happyness... then he can have the pleasure of takin our happyness from us.!!!

It apears to me that Lori will get to go to hell an im doomed to eternity in heaven :runaway:

i know i'm stating the obvious, but you're really hard to take seriously.

i know i'm stating the obvious, but you're really hard to take seriously.

Well answr this... do you enjoy bein happy.???

we're just not conditioned in society, or even by our own nature to consider this.

and you said creation was perfect. it is clear you are implying a separate source for spirit vs physical. you also are clearly implying it isn't perfect.

it seems you just make up things and correct yourself as you go along but continue to state that you were right all along.

Well answr this... do you enjoy bein happy.???

Yes, of course.

and you said creation was perfect. it is clear you are implying a separate source for spirit vs physical. you also are clearly implying it isn't perfect.

it seems you just make up things and correct yourself as you go along but continue to state that you were right all along.

You don't know what conditioning is? If you don't understand something you should just ask questions and ask for clarification. Perhaps you have been conditioned to insult instead.

You don't know what conditioning is? If you don't understand something you should just ask questions and ask for clarification. Perhaps you have been conditioned to insult instead.

if something is conditioned that way, then why would it need to be changed if creation is perfect?

it's like saying a carnivore is conditioned to be a carnivore but now needs to become an herbivore.

you assume others are not intelligent because you don't understand where you were incorrect. lol

Who would want to live forever in a state of unhappiness? That would qualify as torture. It would certainly not be anyone's definition of "heaven"!

What are you, a masochist?

Happiness is a condition of "the flesh"???

Who comes up with these idiotic definitions??? If anything, happiness is a condition of "the spirit.

"To be unhappy for all eternity is only "initially uncomfortable?" Then you get used to it and you don't mind being miserable? This is what Abrahamic religion has to offer, and people go for it?

For once, I agree with you! ( :) )

It is their utter devaluation of happiness that puts me off so much.
I have always wondered where that devaluation comes from.

http://wechselwirkungen.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/nietzsche-dance-god.jpg

if something is conditioned that way, then why would it need to be changed if creation is perfect?

it's like saying a carnivore is conditioned to be a carnivore but now needs to become an herbivore.

you assume others are not intelligent because you don't understand where you were incorrect. lol

So you're trying to tell me that you don't understand how people can be conditioned by lies, incorrect thoughts and behaviors, hate, violence, greed, and at best, incomplete knowledge?

If that were true all the psychologists would be out of business.

So you're trying to tell me that you don't understand how people can be conditioned by lies, incorrect thoughts and behaviors, hate, violence, greed, and at best, incomplete knowledge?



you said creation was perfect. if it were perfect, then none of that would be a problem now, would it?

if it was perfect, jesus wouldn't have needed to tell people to change or else, watch out.

you just make up whatever you want and pass if off as christianity. at least be honest enough to just state you want to revise christianity then.

you said creation was perfect. if it were perfect, then none of that would be a problem now, would it?

if it was perfect, jesus wouldn't have needed to tell people to change or else, watch out.

you just make up whatever you want and pass if off as christianity. at least be honest enough to just state you want to revise christianity then.

you just don't get it birch. it's not my fault. i do get it.

negative and positive consequences and/or conditioning arise from different actions under the same law. transgression has negative consequences, and submission has positive ones. this is actually quite elementary, and a foundational tenet of christianity. i'm not sure what your mental malfunction is, but whatever it is, it's not my nor jesus's fault.

For once, I agree with you! ( :) )

It is their utter devaluation of happiness that puts me off so much.
I have always wondered where that devaluation comes from.

http://wechselwirkungen.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/nietzsche-dance-god.jpg

god rocks...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40EWfxwcZVE

if you're not dancing to that song, you need to call the mortician and find out why you're dead.

*jump, jump, jump, shake it, shake it, shake it*

i got the answer oh!

negative and positive consequences and/or conditioning arise from different actions under the same law. transgression has negative consequences, and submission has positive ones. this is actually quite elementary, and a foundational tenet of christianity. i'm not sure what your mental malfunction is, but whatever it is, it's not my nor jesus's fault.

i have a mental malfunction? what happened to perfect creation that you were pushing before?

you glossed over that you stated that creation is perfect and you think there are consequences due to "tenets of christianity" (lol) when earlier you stated that it's due to laws of nature.

you keep forgetting that consequences are not just from your own actions, it's also from others. for instance, if someone broke into your home to rob and kill you, your conclusion would be that is wrong.

this blows your contention that creation and nature are perfect, otherwise you would have no issue with everything others do as well.

http://wechselwirkungen.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/nietzsche-dance-god.jpg

If his name were not "Nietzsche" many\most would not have taken him seriously. People would be surprised at how much the superficial is buried into our psyche. Particularly in the long term.

i have a mental malfunction?

yes, and then go on to demonstrate...


what happened to perfect creation that you were pushing before?

nothing. law is perfect. it is perfect that good has good consequences, and bad has bad consequences.



you glossed over that you stated that creation is perfect and you think there are consequences due to "tenets of christianity" (lol) when earlier you stated that it's due to laws of nature.

here's the mental malfunction at it's finest. i did not say that consequences are due to tenets of christianity. what i am saying is that one of the foundational tenets of christianity is that there exists law, and consequences according to it.

the way you twist what i say makes me think that your brain is a pretzel.


you keep forgetting that consequences are not just from your own actions, it's also from others. for instance, if someone broke into your home to rob and kill you, your conclusion would be that is wrong.

no, i don't forget that, it's another foundational tenet of christianity, and it's called communion.


this blows your contention that creation and nature are perfect, otherwise you would have no issue with everything others do as well.

oh dear, i have an big issue with most of what we all do.

yes, and then go on to demonstrate...



nothing. law is perfect. it is perfect that good has good consequences, and bad has bad consequences.




here's the mental malfunction at it's finest. i did not say that consequences are due to tenets of christianity. what i am saying is that one of the foundational tenets of christianity is that there exists law, and consequences according to it.

the way you twist what i say makes me think that your brain is a pretzel.



no, i don't forget that, it's another foundational tenet of christianity, and it's called communion.



oh dear, i have an big issue with most of what we all do.

you have a dishonest mind which because it's "religion" people let you get away with. but unfortunately, this spills over into other areas and why religion is a poison in society and breeds injustice more than justice. you did state that consequences are due to tenets of christianity. can you understand your own post? it's you who have a mind like a twisted pretzel trying to make excuses after another instead of just correcting what you stated earlier.

what the heck is this?


negative and positive consequences and/or conditioning arise from different actions under the same law. transgression has negative consequences, and submission has positive ones. this is actually quite elementary, and a foundational tenet of christianity.

none of your replies are based on any real reasoning considering what you have been purporting.

if bad actions have bad consequences, then why do you have a problem with bad consequences and the law is perfect? a choice that you might consider bad because the consequences for you are bad may be considered a good choice for another if it ends in gain for the other.

do you have a problem with bad consequences or that there exist choice to make these decisions?

you have a dishonest mind which because it's "religion" people let you get away with. but unfortunately, this spills over into other areas and why religion is a poison in society and breeds injustice more than justice. you did state that consequences are due to tenets of christianity. can you understand your own post? it's you who have a mind like a twisted pretzel trying to make excuses after another instead of just correcting what you stated earlier.

this is what i said...



negative and positive consequences and/or conditioning arise from different actions under the same law. transgression has negative consequences, and submission has positive ones. this is actually quite elementary, and a foundational tenet of christianity.

it's like your brain is upside down or something.

i said that consequences are according to law. that belief, that statement, is one of the foundational tenets of christianity.

and you said, that consequences are according to tenets! no!



none of your replies are based on any real reasoning considering what you have been purporting.

given your level of comprehension and understanding, what in the hell would that matter?


if bad actions have bad consequences, then why do you have a problem with bad consequences and the law is perfect? a choice that you might consider bad because the consequences for you are bad may be considered a good choice for another if it ends in gain for the other.

do you have a problem with bad consequences or that there exist choice to make these decisions?

i have a problem with bad consequences because those consequences suck, and i would like for myself and those around me to make correct decisions.

i said that consequences are according to law. that belief, that statement, is one of the foundational tenets of christianity.

and you said, that consequences are according to tenets! no!


your post is making the association that the laws are the foundational tenets of christianity.

who is having the problem of comprehension?

quite the silence. you've been using semantics to weasel away from the assertions you've made over and over that creation is perfect. 'tenets' vs 'laws', is just a distraction.



i have a problem with bad consequences because those consequences suck, and i would like for myself and those around me to make correct decisions.

more semantics. everything to skirt the possiblity of calling creation imperfect. it just may not be to one's "liking." you have a "problem" with it. if it's perfect, then maybe the problem is you and you should just accept it. that's following your logic as well.

interesting though, that jesus was pleading for people to change and there was no indication that all was perfect. if it was perfect, "sin" would not exist. people wouldn't even have the capability to even make an honest mistake. dense beyond belief.

what a christian you are. don't even understand your own bible.

Sorry, it was my God. He said he was just going for a quick virgin, and never came back for a week, and then all this!
When he gets back from smiting Judeans, I'll have a word..

Sorry, it was my God. He said he was just going for a quick virgin, and never came back for a week, and then all this!
When he gets back from smiting Judeans, I'll have a word..

Shoulda known it was yours! :bugeye:

"Whose God is responsible???"

I guess that would have to be Zeus..After all, he's King of the Gods right?:shrug:

Though I figure Thor must share in the blame..I knew swinging that hammer, would make a mess of things.

Kind of like letting a bull loose in a china shop, you might say.

kind of like watching a bunch of atheists play lemmings
:shrug:

kind of like watching a bunch of atheists play lemmings
:shrug:

But there's no cliff around...So I guess were safe.

The Holy lemmings of the Lost Cliff..

your post is making the association that the laws are the foundational tenets of christianity.

who is having the problem of comprehension?

laws are the foundational tenets of damn near everything, but that wasn't my point. my point is, that in christianity, given that law, we can be correct or incorrect in our behaviors, and the consequences to that, according to law, are positive or negative respectively.

quite the silence. you've been using semantics to weasel away from the assertions you've made over and over that creation is perfect. 'tenets' vs 'laws', is just a distraction.




more semantics. everything to skirt the possiblity of calling creation imperfect. it just may not be to one's "liking." you have a "problem" with it. if it's perfect, then maybe the problem is you and you should just accept it. that's following your logic as well.

interesting though, that jesus was pleading for people to change and there was no indication that all was perfect. if it was perfect, "sin" would not exist. people wouldn't even have the capability to even make an honest mistake. dense beyond belief.

what a christian you are. don't even understand your own bible.

silence? did you think i was hanging on your every word? how cute.

certainly you've heard that jesus was born without sin, right?

silence? did you think i was hanging on your every word? how cute.

certainly you've heard that jesus was born without sin, right?

strange that a professed christian would understand less about their own religion.

let's explain what christianity is in regards to what jesus christ was representing or purporting.

i was trying to get you to own up to your lack of religious considerations before and your total "nature's laws" schpiel. the tenets of christianity don't even line up with these laws as you have been assuming which was illustrated before. the tenets of christianity are not to just be followed for one's own consequences but for the consequences based on the sanctity of life or of reverence for ethical principles. this means that being damned to hell either literally or figuratively is a consequence that should not be avoided just out of fear but because one esteems the virtues/values which would lead them to heaven (again symbolically or literally). natural law/laws of nature is just based on a power struggle based on selfish motives. jesus christ was telling others to rise above that, symbolized by the 'flesh'. he said what is born of the flesh is flesh and what is born of the spirit is spirit.

jesus's major symbol was of love and morality. through morality can people be fair, respectful and compassionate to all. (you stated earlier that you didn't care about morality but only right or wrong/laws of universe).

you don't realize or purposely ignoring that what jesus symbolized is not about working with a perfect world but helping others to alleviate as much suffering as possible and making life as best as possible considering the factors at hand. this is why jesus promised an after-life that is perfect because it is not here.

you also never mention the symbolism of the "devil." i'm giving you the benefit of the doubt since previously you seemed to hint that it's not christian or honest to blame the devil to absolve themselves of responsiblity. that is right but it's also true that the devil is mentioned in the bible to symbolize that creation has been tainted or compromised. that is the duality and struggle as well as what jesus was fighting against or enlightening others to whether it was disease or sin.

if creation was perfect, even in the christian sense, the bible would show that both good and evil or satan as well as god or demons as well as angels would have been embraced. it is clear it wasn't because there are conflicts of interest. a blatant example is jesus casting out demons as well a promising an after-life that is free from this struggle or suffering.

now this is christian theology but not necessarily my own opinion on the bible or the religion.

strange that a professed christian would understand less about their own religion.

let's explain what christianity is in regards to what jesus christ was representing or purporting.

i was trying to get you to own up to your lack of religious considerations before and your total "nature's laws" schpiel. the tenets of christianity don't even line up with these laws as you have been assuming which was illustrated before. the tenets of christianity are not to just be followed for one's own consequences but for the consequences based on the sanctity of life or of reverence for ethical principles.

are you talking about the ability to always act in accordance with the greater good? are you talking about the right answer according to law?


this means that being damned to hell either literally or figuratively is a consequence that should not be avoided just out of fear but because one esteems the virtues/values which would lead them to heaven (again symbolically or literally). natural law/laws of nature is just based on a power struggle based on selfish motives. jesus christ was telling others to rise above that, symbolized by the 'flesh'. he said what is born of the flesh is flesh and what is born of the spirit is spirit.

in other words you're saying that motives don't have to be selfish? even given the very same law?


jesus's major symbol was of love and morality. through morality can people be fair, respectful and compassionate to all. (you stated earlier that you didn't care about morality but only right or wrong/laws of universe).

jesus wasn't a symbol, and he wasn't just a teacher. jesus was an actual human being who was born without sin, and is the actual spiritual and physical catalyst by which we (the church) will also be born (again) without sin.


you don't realize or purposely ignoring that what jesus symbolized is not about working with a perfect world but helping others to alleviate as much suffering as possible and making life as best as possible considering the factors at hand. this is why jesus promised an after-life that is perfect because it is not here.

hahahaha...no. jesus is the messiah. jesus is the king of a coming kingdom, in which real live people (like me) will live in communion with god and each other, and will never suffer or die.


you also never mention the symbolism of the "devil." i'm giving you the benefit of the doubt since previously you seemed to hint that it's not christian or honest to blame the devil to absolve themselves of responsiblity. that is right but it's also true that the devil is mentioned in the bible to symbolize that creation has been tainted or compromised. that is the duality and struggle as well as what jesus was fighting against or enlightening others to whether it was disease or sin.

the devil is also not a symbol, but an angel, and has free will just like we do. the human race has been tainted, corrupted, and jesus is the cure...not symbolically, but physically and spiritually.


if creation was perfect, even in the christian sense, the bible would show that both good and evil or satan as well as god or demons as well as angels would have been embraced. it is clear it wasn't because there are conflicts of interest. a blatant example is jesus casting out demons as well a promising an after-life that is free from this struggle or suffering.

now this is christian theology but not necessarily my own opinion on the bible or the religion.

law will not change, but we will according to it. that is why jesus said that he was the fulfillment of the law.

^a disturbing exhibit of many oddities and why religion is mostly a problem. lack of comprehension, backpedaling, literalism of metaphors, fantasies, and even hints of parasitism and elitism (jesus the catalyst for christians to be born without sin) and missing the greater message.

^a disturbing exhibit of many oddities and why religion is mostly a problem. lack of comprehension, backpedaling, literalism of metaphors, fantasies, and even hints of parasitism and elitism (jesus the catalyst for christians to be born without sin) and missing the greater message.

nope. that's actually what the bible says, and the actual meaning behind what i've experienced.

nope. that's actually what the bible says, and the actual meaning behind what i've experienced.

please kindly quote the scriptures and we can see how they can be interpreted.

this is the most important question. does someone, in your opinion, have to be literally a christian and of the christian faith in order to go to a heaven? or do you think different religions have their own heaven as well? even this alleged second coming of heaven on earth (which i think is relative but not absolute), is it only for christians? or is it based on those who live and revere the message what christ was trying to teach?

also, again, you seem to think that the corruption is only affecting humans (i suspect because it is what humans do that directly affects you). you say there will be no more suffering or death. animals also suffer and die.

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
...do you enjoy bein happy.???


Yes, of course.

Does the idea of communion wit God make you feel happy.???

http://www.tftw2.org/Articles/secondcoming2.htm

http://ecclesia.org/truth/1000.html



The passage also mentions the first resurrection, which is in contrast with the second death. The point is not that the righteous is raised a thousand years before the wicked, for a physical reign on earth, but that the cause of Christ for which the martyrs died is triumphant. Evil is not forever on the throne. God has overcome.

this seems to make more sense as the world may become more enlightened as time progresses, so to speak.

what about this? do you agree or disagree and why?

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
...do you enjoy bein happy.???



Does the idea of communion wit God make you feel happy.???

hm...does the idea make me happy? do ideas make me happy? maybe an idea on a way to decorate a room, or solve a problem, if one comes to me, i'm happy when it does. but this isn't really my idea.

do i sit and imagine what it would be like and does that imagination make me feel happy? um...no, not usually. i'm not that imaginative.

you know, i've had interactions with god, speaking of communion, and i have to say that those interactions generally, did not make me happy initially, but perhaps have made it so, that i am happier now than i used to be, because they changed me. i'm a stronger person, i make better decisions, i have better relationships, so that allows to be to happier in a way i guess, but knowing god opened my eyes to a lot of things that made me very unhappy too. am i happy there's a way to solve those things? yeah. is happiness the means by which they'll be solved? hell no.

please kindly quote the scriptures and we can see how they can be interpreted.

this is the most important question. does someone, in your opinion, have to be literally a christian and of the christian faith in order to go to a heaven? or do you think different religions have their own heaven as well? even this alleged second coming of heaven on earth (which i think is relative but not absolute), is it only for christians? or is it based on those who live and revere the message what christ was trying to teach?

also, again, you seem to think that the corruption is only affecting humans (i suspect because it is what humans do that directly affects you). you say there will be no more suffering or death. animals also suffer and die.

matthew 5:17-20. there...

http://www.jesuscentral.com/ji/life-of-jesus-ancient/biography-of-jesus-christ/who-is-Jesus-by-matthew/gospel-of-matthew-5_17-20.php

now i'm no bible-thumper, i'm a mastermind. the bible has been interpreted to me by the holy spirit through interaction, and based on experience. we don't sit around and memorize chapter and verse, we understand it and move on. if you want to look up scripture then do it. you really want me to google up scriptures that say satan was an angel? you want me to google up communion for you? no.

i've told you what i think about our experience in the afterlife and heaven and hell based on my rather obvious lack of knowledge regarding that experience. i don't really ever think about an afterlife, or heaven and hell. i don't think about death.

and i don't think anything is going to suffer or die in the kingdom, even animals.

matthew 5:17-20. there...

http://www.jesuscentral.com/ji/life-of-jesus-ancient/biography-of-jesus-christ/who-is-Jesus-by-matthew/gospel-of-matthew-5_17-20.php

now i'm no bible-thumper, i'm a mastermind. the bible has been interpreted to me by the holy spirit through interaction, and based on experience. we don't sit around and memorize chapter and verse, we understand it and move on. if you want to look up scripture then do it. you really want me to google up scriptures that say satan was an angel? you want me to google up communion for you? no.

i've told you what i think about our experience in the afterlife and heaven and hell based on my rather obvious lack of knowledge regarding that experience. i don't really ever think about an afterlife, or heaven and hell. i don't think about death.

and i don't think anything is going to suffer or die in the kingdom, even animals.

un-believable! you are the christian, then it's on you to provide the scripture instead of just repeating that your god is real and your religion should be taken seriously. also, you evaded the other pertinent questions i asked you.

frigging nuts! i think the way you think illustrates why religion is mostly dangerous is because, even if unintentional, the way you reason is actually unfair or unjust. for instance, this was more trivial but you don't seem to realize what is your responsibility and what is someone else's and you easily put it on someone else as well as you evaded other similar questions asked on this thread as well as other threads which is kind of a form of dishonesty so you don't have to deal or admit that many of christianity's beliefs are biased or hypocritical etc.

BTW: that scripture has nothing to do with a physical heavenly kingdom on earth that you were purporting in your other post. also, you don't seem to understand shit. maybe if you actually read the bible and would remember it, then you would OR you could discern the difference between what you makeup or your opinion to what the bible is saying or actually realize when you are contradicting it if you could remember the frigging bible. some advice.

un-believable! you are the christian, then it's on you to provide the scripture instead of just repeating that your god is real and your religion should be taken seriously. also, you evaded the other pertinent questions i asked you.

frigging nuts! i think the way you think illustrates why religion is mostly dangerous is because, even if unintentional, the way you reason is actually unfair or unjust. for instance, this was more trivial but you don't seem to realize what is your responsibility and what is someone else's and you easily put it on someone else as well as you evaded other similar questions asked on this thread as well as other threads which is kind of a form of dishonesty so you don't have to deal or admit that many of christianity's beliefs are biased or hypocritical etc.

BTW: that scripture has nothing to do with a physical heavenly kingdom on earth that you were purporting in your other post. also, you don't seem to understand shit. maybe if you actually read the bible and would remember it, then you would OR you could discern the difference between what you makeup or your opinion to what the bible is saying or actually realize when you are contradicting it if you could remember the frigging bible. some advice.

oh thanks, i'll be sure to write that down somewhere. hahaha...

clueless,

think about it this way. i want people to be able to depend on me. i want to live in a world where people depend on each other and are accountable to each other entirely. so i don't want anyone who might want to depend on me to think that my motivation is my own happiness. it's not. i think we see that motivation in the world, and it really doesn't work out all that well. do you know what i'm saying?

oh thanks, i'll be sure to write that down somewhere. hahaha...

you are a poor representative of your religion, christianity. you never quote scripture and you never use anything to back up anything you say except to repeat 'i feel this or i had this experience'. you don't even bother to lucidly explain it either, not even an "attempt."

what makes it insane is you think people should take god seriously because of how you feel.


clueless,

think about it this way. i want people to be able to depend on me. i want to live in a world where people depend on each other and are accountable to each other entirely. so i don't want anyone who might want to depend on me think that my motivation is my own happiness. it's not. i think we see that motivation in the world, and it really doesn't work out all that well. do you know what i'm saying?

i don't fall for the bs you are using. you could have answered the questions i posed on this thread but you evaded them.

if you aren't clueless and you are a christian as you profess, then stop beating around the bush and answer them. don't use some secular reasoning to hide behind or shove your christianity out of dodge when it suits you.

this is the most important question. does someone, in your opinion, have to be literally a christian and of the christian faith in order to go to a heaven? or do you think different religions have their own heaven as well? even this alleged second coming of heaven on earth (which i think is relative but not absolute), is it only for christians? or is it based on those who live and revere the message what christ was trying to teach?

answer this question, "christians."

and post 241.

you are a poor representative of your religion, christianity. you never quote scripture and you never use anything to back up anything you say except to repeat 'i feel this or i had this experience'. you don't even bother to lucidly explain it either, not even an "attempt."

what makes it insane is you think people should take god seriously because of how you feel.

oh you're so full of shit! i've told you exactly what the bible tells you to do and that which i have done, and that is have your own relationship with god. you don't want to do that so you expect me to sit here and banter over interpretations of scripture.

oh you're so full of shit! i've told you exactly what the bible tells you to do and that which i have done, and that is have your own relationship with god. you don't want to do that so you expect me to sit here and banter over interpretations of scripture.

stop "evading" and answer the specific questions.

'bible tells you to do' is very funny since you've shown some severe allergy to even referencing the bible. lol