Remember, regardless of who takes the job chances are they will either run for president in 2008 or become president sooner if Bush falls.

Hopefully Bush & Cheney will resign in the near future. They're the worst President & Vice President duo in U.S. history.

May_wentee

Remember, regardless of who takes the job chances are they will either run for president in 2008 or become president sooner if Bush falls.
None of the above including "someone we've never heard of. Cheney isn't about to be replaced.

None of the above including "someone we've never heard of. Cheney isn't about to be replaced.

Never say never........And Cheney? He's gutless just like Bush. He'll resign.

May_wentee :D

Never say never........And Cheney? He's gutless just like Bush. He'll resign.

May_wentee :D

Ho-ho! I'll take that bet! Pick any amount you want, minimum $5,000. PM me with your real name, street address, and we'll pick someone here on the forum that we both trust to hold the money. Deal????

Ho-ho! I'll take that bet! Pick any amount you want, minimum $5,000. PM me with your real name, street address, and we'll pick someone here on the forum that we both trust to hold the money. Deal????

Sounds like you're just about ready to file for bankruptcy. Save what money you do have and try and get a job at McDonolds in Bagdad, if you're qualified that is. A bit of advice first. Don't wear an 'I Love Bush/Cheney' T-shirt to the interview.

May_wentee :D

Sounds like you're just about ready to file for bankruptcy. Save what money you do have and try and get a job at McDonolds in Bagdad, if you're qualified that is. A bit of advice first. Don't wear an 'I Love Bush/Cheney' T-shirt to the interview.

May_wentee :D

Hah! Bankrupt, nothing. I retired several years ago, two nice checks every month, a very healthy bank account, home and vehicles all paid off - no debt at all.

I never wear T-shirts, they're mostly for kids.

But come on - I still like taking other people's money! ;) Want to make the bet or not?

Hah! Bankrupt, nothing. I retired several years ago, two nice checks every month, a very healthy bank account, home and vehicles all paid off - no debt at all.

I never wear T-shirts, they're mostly for kids.

But come on - I still like taking other people's money! ;) Want to make the bet or not?

Talk is cheap isn't it. Seeing is how you're the one doing all the talking, why not post your bank account, final car payments and paid off home mortage in this forum. That way someone might want to take you up on your bet sometime. Either that, or post some of your recent welfare checks instead, if you're on welfare that is. If you're not, then 'don't' forget that McDonolds job in Bagdad. They're still looking for a few good men (they just keep on losing em somewhere I guess). Keep on trucking........

May_wentee :D

Geena Davis.

Talk is cheap isn't it. Seeing is how you're the one doing all the talking, why not post your bank account, final car payments and paid off home mortage in this forum. That way someone might want to take you up on your bet sometime. Either that, or post some of your recent welfare checks instead, if you're on welfare that is. If you're not, then 'don't' forget that McDonolds job in Bagdad. They're still looking for a few good men (they just keep on losing em somewhere I guess). Keep on trucking........

May_wentee :D

I agree that talk is cheap, that's why I offered the bet. Do you want it or not? And I'm very serious - I suggest we both send the money to Cosmictraveler or Quantum Quack and let them hold it until the end of the current term. Come on, put your money where your mouth is!

And you must be a fairly young naive kid if you think I'd post info like that on the internet. :D

Do you want to bet or just keep on with your cheap talk??????????

Bob Marley.

I have clearly missed something. Did Cheney die or something?

I have clearly missed something. Did Cheney die or something?

No, only his political future is dead. The indictments that are coming this week are going to make him the greatest political liability for Bush, who already has enough liabilities as it is. I don't think Cheney wants to be VP anymore, I don't think Bush really trusts him anymore, and the Republican Party needs to position someone to run for president in 2008. Cheney can step aside and still be very very involved in the running of the country (into the ground).

Speaking of people you've never heard of, how about

Ileana Ros-Lehtinen
Susan Collins
Elaine Chao
Jeanette Bradley - now that would be interesting

I haven't got five grand to bet, but I would bet a twenty that Cheney will be done before Christmas.

No, only his political future is dead. The indictments that are coming this week are going to make him the greatest political liability for Bush, who already has enough liabilities as it is. I don't think Cheney wants to be VP anymore, I don't think Bush really trusts him anymore, and the Republican Party needs to position someone to run for president in 2008. Cheney can step aside and still be very very involved in the running of the country (into the ground).

Speaking of people you've never heard of, how about

Ileana Ros-Lehtinen
Susan Collins
Elaine Chao
Jeanette Bradley - now that would be interesting

I haven't got five grand to bet, but I would bet a twenty that Cheney will be done before Christmas.

Very well, since you want to bet (I still like taking other people's money when they want to throw it away.) :) Can you afford $2,500?

Donald Duck would actually be better than Bob, they can make Donald say anything and get away with it. ;)

I agree that talk is cheap, that's why I offered the bet. Do you want it or not? And I'm very serious - I suggest we both send the money to Cosmictraveler or Quantum Quack and let them hold it until the end of the current term. Come on, put your money where your mouth is!

And you must be a fairly young naive kid if you think I'd post info like that on the internet. :D

Do you want to bet or just keep on with your cheap talk??????????

Sounds like you got things reversed. You're the one spreading the 'cheap' talk around here. Save your money (if you have any that is) to help your idol Cheney find a new job when he resigns. Better yet, see if you can get any bets from another forum. They'll probably just laugh at you like we are.

May_wentee :D

David Letterman

- Shifty Russian
www.WhoMakesYouSick.com ... Tell the world

Sounds like you got things reversed. You're the one spreading the 'cheap' talk around here. Save your money (if you have any that is) to help your idol Cheney find a new job when he resigns. Better yet, see if you can get any bets from another forum. They'll probably just laugh at you like we are.

May_wentee :D

What?!? My idol Cheney!?! Who - besides you just now - even said I like the guy? I certainly never said it.

I was just looking to turn a profit from your silliness.

Very well, since you want to bet (I still like taking other people's money when they want to throw it away.) :) Can you afford $2,500?

Hell no, I'm not a rich republicab. I meant twenty dollars. And yes, I will bet you $20 that we will have a new vice president by this Christmas.

Hell no, I'm not a rich republicab. I meant twenty dollars. And yes, I will bet you $20 that we will have a new vice president by this Christmas.

Naw, 20 bucks isn't worth fooling with. I'm more than confident you'd loose it (serious things cannot happen THAT quickly) but I appreciate the offer. :)

Naw, 20 bucks isn't worth fooling with. I'm more than confident you'd loose it (serious things cannot happen THAT quickly) but I appreciate the offer. :)

Talk is sure cheap isn't it?

May_wentee :D

Talk is sure cheap isn't it?

May_wentee :D

Hah! I wouldn't walk across the street for a measley 20 dollars, much less the hassle of making a bet across the internet for it.

But YOU are the one with cheap talk - if you are so convinced that you're right, why don't you take the bet I offered you, eh? Who's really cheap here - me or you! :D

Hah! I wouldn't walk across the street for a measley 20 dollars, much less the hassle of making a bet across the internet for it.

But YOU are the one with cheap talk - if you are so convinced that you're right, why don't you take the bet I offered you, eh? Who's really cheap here - me or you! :D

Keep 'Cheap' talking. We love to hear it here, especially from you.

May_wentee :D

Keep 'Cheap' talking. We love to hear it here, especially from you.

May_wentee :D

C'mon, be brave. Back up your belief in what you said with REAL money. I'm still waiting...

C'mon, be brave. Back up your belief in what you said with REAL money. I'm still waiting...

If that's 'all' you have to say concerning this particular thread, (which by the way is getting a little boring by the way). Then do us a favor and try another forum. O.K.?

May_wentee :D

If that's 'all' you have to say concerning this particular thread, (which by the way is getting a little boring by the way). Then do us a favor and try another forum. O.K.?

May_wentee :D

Yeah, it IS getting a little boring - since you won't take the bet.

But besides that, have you noticed that hardly anyone else seems interested in discussing the main topic? Given the fact that there's not anything of real consequence going on to drive him from office, there's really nothing much else that can be said here.

Yeah, it IS getting a little boring - since you won't take the bet.

But besides that, have you noticed that hardly anyone else seems interested in discussing the main topic? Given the fact that there's not anything of real consequence going on to drive him from office, there's really nothing much else that can be said here.

Yea.....I think they're just a little bored listening to you and me too. I'm signing off from this thread.

May_wentee :D

Who would I like to see for a new U.S. VP?

Nobody.

Nor would I like to see anyone for a new president. I'd rather us not have any president or VP period. Too much power in the hands of one person.

- N

...have you noticed that hardly anyone else seems interested in discussing the main topic? Given the fact that there's not anything of real consequence going on to drive him from office, there's really nothing much else that can be said here.

That's because people would rather quibble over side issues or hurl insults than carry on a serious conversation. This is primarily because most contributors haven't got the intelligence or attention span for actual debate.

I'll ressurect this thread either the day Cheney resigns or the day after Christmas, whichever comes first. In the case of the former maybe people will have more interest, and in the case of the latter I'll eat my words and submit a receipt for the $20 I'll donate to a local charity in Light's name.

That's because people would rather quibble over side issues or hurl insults than carry on a serious conversation. This is primarily because most contributors haven't got the intelligence or attention span for actual debate.

I'll ressurect this thread either the day Cheney resigns or the day after Christmas, whichever comes first. In the case of the former maybe people will have more interest, and in the case of the latter I'll eat my words and submit a receipt for the $20 I'll donate to a local charity in Light's name.

That's very kind of you. :)

Back to the thought of Cheney leaving. About the only thing that could make him leave is his medical (heart) condition and it doesn't seem to be that serious.

The only other possibility is a non-event it itself. Th flap over the Valerie Plame issue may indeed lead to his office but it will stop with underlings. They'll take the hit for it, not Cheney.

But I'll turn the floor over to you - why do you think he would quit?

Strategically for the Republican party to win the 2008 presidency Cheney should resign now for "health reasons". The replacement should be attractive, charming, untainted by scandal, have had some real success in private sector business, and should have faced real combat as a soldier in Vietnam.

Rudy Giuliani also would be a good choice as VP with having the VP winning the 2008 election as the goal.

I thought Rudy Giuliani let Milken walk away with too much stolen money but with our pathetic media that issue would never be framed that way.

Strategically for the Republican party to win the 2008 presidency Cheney should resign now for "health reasons". The replacement should be attractive, charming, untainted by scandal, have had some real success in private sector business, and should have faced real combat as a soldier in Vietnam.

Rudy Giuliani also would be a good choice as VP with having the VP winning the 2008 election as the goal.

I thought Rudy Giuliani let Milken walk away with too much stolen money but with our pathetic media that issue would never be framed that way.

Yes, those are very good points.

I doubt, though, that Giulianti would be interested. He had a good showing in the public arena as mayor of N.Y. during a serious crisis and now seems quite happy in the private sector where everything is better. Better money, less political pressure, not having to deal with the public and it's conflicting demands, etc. In a very real sense he's "been there - done that" and I don't see why he'd want to face it all over again. And at his age, there's really no profit in it for him compared to the private sector.

Nirakar summed up my thoughts pretty succinctly - I think this whole scandal will point pretty conclusively to him and Rove, and in order to protect Bush both of them will have to go. I think the Republican Party will have to insist.

Chuck Hagel would be good, but he's split from Bush over the Iraq mess. Too bad. John McCain wants to be president but apparently can't stand Bush either. Ted Stevens would also be good if he wasn't 82 years old. There are no other veterans to choose from.

I could see him choosing Christine Todd Whitman. Not a vet but probably a moderate Republican is just what is needed here.

Hopefully Bush & Cheney will resign in the near future.


I misread it as

Hopefully Bush & Cheney will reign in the near future. :o

But, this loser is not going to resign (or reign).

With the slack the Republican Party is getting over all the scandals of this administration, the only chance the party has of getting the big chair in 2008 is to go more moderate.
Someone who has (or is willing to) stand against Bush and Co, is the only chance the party has, and the WHOLE party has to back him.
Over the next year or two you will see the party members shying away from the Bush clan and moving slowly towards the center.
ESPECIALLY if and when teh Dems gain control of the houses (barring any Democratic Party jarring scandals in the houses in 06 and 07.

My prediction:
Both houses will sway over to the Dems in the mid-terms.
The following two years will be somewhat unproductive (fights from the Executive and the few straggling ultra rights unwilling to turn coat on Bush Cheney) but also relatively scandal free for the Dems.
The Republicans will lose a LOT of their core power and moneymen -DeLay, Frist, Cunningham is already gone, Rove will be rendered impotent- and suffer a few more scandalous setbacks to lose more power in the houses and public support.
The Dems are not yet organized enough to really capitalize on the Republican failures in 06 and 07, so will not get very far, and will not win a great deal of confidence in the eyes of Americans.
People won't so much be voting FOR Democrats, simply AGAINT Republicans.
When 2008 rolls around, the Dems will not be any more organized than they currently are (for many very good reasons, but mainly lack of underlying purpose and centralized unified voice). Furthermore they do not have a strong candidate to run.
If the Republicans are smart (and they are) they will take full advantage of this opportunity to run someone who is not only a centerist moderate, but has Democratic support (if not respect) and the respect oif Americans across the lines.
Not only will he be able to swing moderate voters from both parties, but he will have sway and power across bothe sides of the aisle (which he will need with a Democrat majority in the houses).
Bush and Cheney will both finish their terms.
Rove and Libby will both be ousted (or "retire").
Both houses will swing Democrat in the midterms.
John McCain will be the President in 2008.
Vice President 2008?
I'm still trying to figure that one out.

Don't count the smash mouth Republicans out.

With the slack the Republican Party is getting over all the scandals of this administration, the only chance the party has of getting the big chair in 2008 is to go more moderate.

It seems that way now but the Republicans know how to get the job done when voting time comes arround and the Republicans start pouring all that money that they have raised into advertisements playing on our hatreds, nationalist vanity, and fears. The Democrats usual rope a dope, "don't ask what we stand for just know that we are not the Republicans" campaign does not work well because it allows the Republicans to define what the Democrats stand for.

Rove and Libby will both be ousted (or "retire").
Libby "retired" today after being indicted and Rove is still under investigation (http://us.rd.yahoo.com//mymod/ldpht/sty/*http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&u=/ap/20051028/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cia_leak_investigation_101). I admit, it was the easiest part of my prediction, but keep watching.

And indictment is not indication or proof of any wrong-doing. That has to be determined in a court of law. And perjury is one of the most difficult cases a prosecutor can handle ....he must prove, MUST PROVE that Libby intended to mislead or to cover the facts, instead of just forgetting a few essential facts, etc.

The trial is a looooong ways off yet.

Baron Max

And indictment is not indication or proof of any wrong-doing. That has to be determined in a court of law. And perjury is one of the most difficult cases a prosecutor can handle ....he must prove, MUST PROVE that Libby intended to mislead or to cover the facts, instead of just forgetting a few essential facts, etc.

The trial is a looooong ways off yet.

Baron Max

Fitzgerald has got his act together. He wouldn't have indicted Libby if he didn't think he HAD enough evidence to convict him of PERJURY in a court of law. Rove and Cheney both look just as quilty as Libby and maybe even more so. They're time for an indictment is coming soon.

May_wentee :D

And indictment is not indication or proof of any wrong-doing.
You are correct, Max, but that's not the point.
What I said was that he was going to "retire" and he did.
I personally think he is guilty (did you read the indictment) but he is technically "innocent until proven guilty".
My prediction stands, however. He "retired" and so will Rove.
Stay tuned.

You are correct, Max, but that's not the point. What I said was that he was going to "retire" and he did.

Yeah, what else could he do?

It's like a young teach here in Texas who was quite popular in the school. One girl didn't like him and brought up charges of sexual abuse. The media went into a feeding frenzy, getting the public all stirred up and pissed off. The public and the media called for "buring him at the stake", etc ......and then finally the cops found out the truth AND the girl confessed. That single, wrongful accusation ruined that teacher's career forever! He's never been able to find a job in any school in the nation ....just because of that one UNfounded accusation. ...and the media frenzy (which they've never apologized for!).

I personally think he is guilty...

And on what do you base that belief? Or are you being just like those I mentioned above ...willing to hound the man until you've ruined his entire career? ...without any proof of guilt?

Baron Max

And on what do you base that belief? Or are you being just like those I mentioned above ...willing to hound the man until you've ruined his entire career? ...without any proof of guilt?
First of all, I am not ready to convict based on my simple belief that he is guilty.
Second of all, this is a lot more than a simple single unsupported accusation. You don't need a grand jury indictment to make an accustion. You DO need a good deal of evidence to get a grand jury indictment, however.
Again, did you read the indictment? While the evidence that was presented is not enough to convict a man without a trial, it is certainly enough for a reasonable person who has been following the issue relatively closely to make a personal determination.

baron whats the difference between that and detention in cuba?

While the evidence that was presented is not enough to convict a man without a trial, it is certainly enough for a reasonable person who has been following the issue relatively closely to make a personal determination.

Personal determination? Ya' mean "opinion"?

And if so, why do you have to form an opinion? And why do you have to form one now? What exactly makes you feel that you need to even HAVE an opinion about it .....when neither you nor anyone else actually knows much of anything about it (except for secondhand gossip and bias reporting).

Baron Max

baron whats the difference between that and detention in cuba?

American citizenship! The Constitution and the Bill of Rights was written AND applies ONLY to legal citzens of the United States of America ....NOT to every illegal scumbag and accused Muslim terrorist in the world!! Get your facts straight ...we don't give a fuck about the "rights" of someone who is NOT a legal citizen. Fuck 'em.

Baron Max

your 2 faced drives me nuts. You invade another country at the behest of the man you are defending, capture ITS citizans while you are there and then claim that they dont get any rights because you kidnaped them from another country? But cry poor because the MEDIA says bad things about your fav polly?

Again, did you read the indictment?
I've asked twice and still no reply.
I guess that means I can take it as a "no".
I figured as much.

But cry poor because the MEDIA says bad things about your fav polly?

No, I bitch n' moan when the media lies or sensationalizes the news! Not when they say "bad things" ....if those "bad things" are real and valid, I'm all for uncovering it, but not by sensationalist or accusational articles without evidence or proof.

As to the prisoners of war, ...NO, I don't think they should have the same rights as citizens of the USA.

Baron Max

I've asked twice and still no reply.

It's too fuckin' long and too fuckin' much legalese.

Besides, why should we read the whole thing? What bearing does it have on this discussion that's NOT been sensationalized by the press?

Baron Max

baron you just hit it, they should have the statice of POW but they have been refused that, AND they have been refused the rights of an accused criminal. Now if one of the man who decided they should be in legal limbo is brought down by a false media story thats just too bad

scarlett johansson for VP. Arnold swarzenegga paved the way

It's too fuckin' long and too fuckin' much legalese.
What, then, do you use to form your opinions?

Is...
secondhand gossip and bias reporting
...good enough for you?

scarlett johansson for VP.

I'll do a "MonicaGate" anytime with her. :D

Hell, I'll even put on a blue dress. :p

- N

I'll ressurect this thread either the day Cheney resigns or the day after Christmas, whichever comes first. In the case of the former maybe people will have more interest, and in the case of the latter I'll eat my words and submit a receipt for the $20 I'll donate to a local charity in Light's name.

[QUOTE=Light]That's very kind of you. :)

Back to the thought of Cheney leaving. About the only thing that could make him leave is his medical (heart) condition and it doesn't seem to be that serious.[QUOTE]

Time to eat my words...


Dear (Te Jen)Thank you for your gift which will enable The Salvation Army to carry out its mission to serve suffering humanity. Your credit card has been charged for the amount listed below:

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[QUOTE=Light]That's very kind of you. :)

Back to the thought of Cheney leaving. About the only thing that could make him leave is his medical (heart) condition and it doesn't seem to be that serious.[QUOTE]

Time to eat my words...


Dear (Te Jen)Thank you for your gift which will enable The Salvation Army to carry out its mission to serve suffering humanity. Your credit card has been charged for the amount listed below:

donation id:1355192440003232300891

date:25 December 2005 02:00 PM (GMT)

name and address:

[deleted]

donation:

20 USD

card type:

VISA

This constitutes an official receipt of your donation which has been sent to The Salvation Army headquarters at the address below. No goods or services have been provided to the donor in consideration of this contribution.

The Salvation Army Empire State Division
200 Twin Oaks Drive
Syracuse
New York 13206
USA

tel: (315) 434-1300

email: Kim_Kramer@USE.salvationarmy.org
website: http://www.salvationarmy-usaeast.org/find/locations/emp.htm

Best Wishes,

The Salvation Army
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If you have any questions about your donation, please write to the e-mail address above and include the donation id number in your message

Thank you, Te Jen - not only have you kept your word, you've also proven yourself to be very honorable!! :) I appreciate both of those qualities very much - the world needs more like you!

And just a current note on the whole topic: you'll note that the pressure on Cheney has reduced considerably since it was last discussed here. And I still see no reason for him to consider resigning. Barring any new or worsened health problems, he'll be right there through the end of the term. The real world simply does not work like many here seem to think it does.

And just a current note on the whole topic: you'll note that the pressure on Cheney has reduced considerably since it was last discussed here. And I still see no reason for him to consider resigning. Barring any new or worsened health problems, he'll be right there through the end of the term. The real world simply does not work like many here seem to think it does.

Apparently not. Though at this point the Bush Administration seems to be in a new batch of hot water over the surveillance issue. I wonder if the congressional Republicans are starting to look over their shoulders yet, thinking of the 2006 elections and getting concerned about the executive branch becoming more and more of a political liability for them. It will depend on the polls as we get into 2006.

It will also depend on an eventual judicial ruling on whether federal law can restrict the power of the executive. If things start to go against the administration, I expect that a scapegoat will be required. I still think that a real coup for the administration would be to retire Cheney, maybe even blame / pardon him, and bring Condoleeza Rice in as the new V.P.

Apparently not. Though at this point the Bush Administration seems to be in a new batch of hot water over the surveillance issue. I wonder if the congressional Republicans are starting to look over their shoulders yet, thinking of the 2006 elections and getting concerned about the executive branch becoming more and more of a political liability for them. It will depend on the polls as we get into 2006.

It will also depend on an eventual judicial ruling on whether federal law can restrict the power of the executive. If things start to go against the administration, I expect that a scapegoat will be required. I still think that a real coup for the administration would be to retire Cheney, maybe even blame / pardon him, and bring Condoleeza Rice in as the new V.P.
Yes, I'll agree with every bit of that except for the very last sentence. The "old boy" network would never sacrifice Cheney because he's too rich, connected and powerful. If they feel the need to sacrifice a scapegoat, it will one of his assistants. And they won't even feel a hit because they'd be well-paid to take the fall and keep quiet.