Well, we already know the answer to that.

Americans are number one. You hear them say it all the freakin time.

But what are they really number one in?

guns, bombs, bio, chem and nuclear weapons
per capital jailings
crime
adhd and drugged kids
debt
movies, tv, and advertising slicksterness............

military power..........ah.........it gets clearer...........

if I am wrong, convince me otherwise.......what is an american??

Not all Americans are all perfect. Most people in this country wouldn't even consider themselves a American. Every country has its problems, we have ours and they have theirs.

I don't see why America gets ridiculed for being so powerful. I really don't. Its like making fun of the popular kid in your class, you have no reason to hate or make fun of them, you just do.

But what are they really number one in?

Movies and TV huh? Well last I heard movies were pretty cool in other countries, seeing as how they make them to. (we call them foreign flicks, they win lots of awards here).

guns, bombs, bio, chem and nuclear weapons

Why dont you talk to russia about that to. Why dont you also talk to all the other countries that have these weapons to. Why single america out?

military power..........ah.........it gets clearer...........

Yeah we do protect a lot of people.

Americas not perfect, neither is any other country so just shut up and stop blaming them.

An American is a member of the most powerful nation on earth, you ignorent, jealous twit.

yup, i am canadian and i am ignorent.


It is spelt IGNORANT, you product of the 33rd best school system in the world.


You protect NO ONE, except the fortune 500 companies and now the oil supply from the rest of the world.


but hey, jmho, and i am ignorent.................

Honestly, how long did it take you to think up this post?

per capital jailings

So it is bad to jail people?

debt

If we didn't help out so many countries post WWII, then maybe we wouldn't be.

Americans are number one. You hear them say it all the freakin time.

So you're admitting you get your views from the major television and radio networks? That probably isn't a good representation.

If there was ever another world war, I really hope you (as in Canada) don't expect us to help you, because that would require us using our "guns, bombs, bio, chem and nuclear weapons"

The USA's debt does not all come from helping out other nations. Per capita, the USA gives less foreign aid than all but two countries. America's debt comes from simply borrowing from Japan to build up it's massive industrial base.

http://www.theglobalist.com/DBWeb/StoryId.aspx?StoryId=1102
http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
Who do you owe it to? (http://home.att.net/~mwhodges/debt.htm)

jailings are bad


so is you debt as it can never be repaid. Your debt has little to do with post ww2 anything. Did you know that bush just gave israel 12 billion for this year alone but didn't extend unemployment benefits. Your defense industry, corporate welfare and cia scams like the S and L, those are the reasons the elite of the world now own the american military and white house.


The funniest part of the whole situation is that americans sit back and talk like they are not the most screwed people on earth. You are all about to get what is coming to you via the homeland defence.


Your country is becoming fascist at this very momment. Everyone in the world is in more danger because of it. The only protection we all need is FROM the americans.............

Originally posted by jandt
jailings are bad


so is you debt as it can never be repaid. Your debt has little to do with post ww2 anything. Did you know that bush just gave israel 12 billion for this year alone but didn't extend unemployment benefits. Your defense industry, corporate welfare and cia scams like the S and L, those are the reasons the elite of the world now own the american military and white house.


The funniest part of the whole situation is that americans sit back and talk like they are not the most screwed people on earth. You are all about to get what is coming to you via the homeland defence.


Your country is becoming fascist at this very momment. Everyone in the world is in more danger because of it. The only protection we all need is FROM the americans.............

Actually, we could easily cure our debt if any of our past few presidents cared about it.

Homeland secruity: Yeah Sherlock, anybody whos actually read the type of that bill can figure that out. It is another case of the government trying to take control of its citizens. Trust me on this, USA is not the first to try to do this.

Being #1 always leads to a lot of criticism, for example Microsoft gets a lot of flaming yet most people continue to use Windows instead of free Linux distributions....

Somebody has to be the schoolyard bully and fortunately it's america and not Saudi Arabia, however I think America has had better presidents with more vision than Bush (Jimmy Carter for instance), as a matter a fact Bush kind of "needed" some sort of conflict to make up for his questionable personality.

Americans, both democrats and republicans tend to close the ranks at times of war (which is a good thing) but it would be better for the world if somebody else was in the presidential seat.

There are many things that the public and myself question about what our politicians do while in office. That does not mean the we "Americans" are out sharpening axes and getting ready to take over the world.

Like many I have seen come though, you seem bent on the idea that everyone should hate us just because. OK, go ahead. Remember that the next time you have a national tragedy, accident, or even a freak of nature. I would hate to count the times that the American people have banned together to send aid to others. Many of those times, the very people you seem to have an axe to grind against were the ones who saw it get there. Mainly the military. Don't like the idea people get "rich" from oil? No problem, don't use anything that requires oil to get it to you. Don't go to the store and buy something because it got there by transportation. Don't travel anywhere that requires anything more than a bicycle. That way you don't support those you don't like.

Don't like jails? Make your own country and do what you will with them then. It has been a problem for man since civilization started and no one to date has solved it. If they had we wouldn't have them.

I gather from the mention of drug kids that it is not a problem for your society. Prehaps you could educate our poor dumb politicans on how to change that.

Bioweapons? Refresh my knowledge of the last time they were used.

Your country does not have debt? How nice that must be. This is another thing you should teach our politicians.

Most of us have little to do with the military and its actions. Prehaps you could show them the light of day so that we will be more endearing citizens of the world.

What I see is that we "Americans" need protection from those that have such opinions as yourself. It is after all the intolerance of others that have brought about the terrorism that we have experienced lately.

This thread was obviously started by some winey ass European.

Europe has become the "Axis of Envy." I love being American!

Correction. Canadian. And I like Canada, I live 30 miles from the border. You're a bad example for your great nation.

and you sir are a good example of Red Neck ignorance

I find that after reading thecurly1's post that I should have made mention of one more thing.

I have no hate or even ill will towards the Canadians. By and large I have found them to be decent people. Not just here on the boards but in real life also.

Just as in our country are those in other countries that are a blemish to their people.

Vortexx look at what you said:

and you sir are a good example of Red Neck ignorance

Red Necks live in the SOUTHERN United States. When did Canada border the South by only 30 miles? Geography is quite a valuable course to be taken in school. I suggest you invest in that class and a map as well.

P.S. Calling people, Red Necks, because they are ignorant, would lend one to believe that you were bashing all southerners, for being intolerant.

Way to show moral superiority by bashing a whole group of people. Does this sound like ignorance? Because if it does, you've just contradicted yourself.

Personally I dont think there is anything really glorius about being an american. Its just a social structure a group of people accept for mutual defense and support.

We aren't perfect, but neither is anyone else. China is an opressed communist hellhole without freedom in any sense of the word. South africa is being torn apart by racism. Many other countries in africa wage war against their neighbors (and internal factions) but they cant feed their own people. Heck, Sudan still has a booming slave trade going on.

If we are so bad why do so many people want to risk their lives to immagrate here?

Read Orwell's 1984, will ya? And lay off the crack, jandt. Please.

__________________________________________
There is no god, afterlife or divine love. There is only Entropy, the mother from which we were all born. She tugs our souls with the beautiful, maternal love of chaos. Why do you keep Her waiting?

spoken like a true patriot!

But if you need to live in the deep south to qualify as a redneck, than obviously you must have got lost somewhere and settled up north mistaking the great lakes for the rio grande....

Character assassination is often used in debate when one has nothing substantive to debate upon.

Try using something that resembles an argument, instead of childish banter.

you mean character assasination like in "some winey ass european" I suppose :D

That's not character assassination, its a broadly based statement, rooted in fact.

I think YOU are the one smoking the crack, which would be understandable given that your intellegence agencies fund their illegalities through selling drugs to their people.

Only a population of crack smokers could possibly have allowed their country, rights, very bodies and souls to be so stolen away and without so much as a whimper.

jandt.....if you have lived in America, you will have noted that you have absolutely no impact to how the federal government opperates. The agencies that you mention are even further away from our the people's opinons and influence than trying to get a stop sign erected on your own street. Our political system is a maze to any person. If I wanted something for my government to do (including state or even local government) I would have to spend most of my time and probably some cash to get noticed. The actions of my country's intelligence agencies reflect very little of myself and my peers.

Politicians are above myself and most of American people in our heirarchy. They get to send the image of America to other nations. Sure we elect the people, but that DOES NOT guarantee they'll do what most of the people want.

And if you think we should exercise our right to rebel and set up a new government you surely are not thinking rationally.

But if you need to live in the deep south to qualify as a redneck, than obviously you must have got lost somewhere and settled up north mistaking the great lakes for the rio grande....

This statement offends me greatly. Have you ever been to the South? Do you have any idea how many black people live in Alabama? Do you have any idea how many Muslims I know that live in my hometown of Louisville? No, you don't. Stop using your stupid stereotypes.

nor, I suppose, were the writers of your constitution that gave you the power to rise up against a gov't gone bad.

That document is the envy of the entire world, and you have all had the right to excercise that option since nov/63. Your nation's people have become weak and demoralized. Not your fault, being harassed and killed since the sixties. Leaders blown away everytime they appear. But I can't stand listening to those of you that think they know the score, when, unable to see the forest for the trees, they beat their chests with such jingoistic fury.

EXERCISE YOUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT

I mean, come on, HENRY K??? What a farce. Bush is all but telling you it's now or never..............

Thank you CouncilerCoffee. As a matter of fact I live a matter of miles from Dearborn, MI, which is the largest concentration of Middle Eastern peoples outside of the Middle East itself. I have many Arab friends, go to school with Arabs and Muslims. I have no problem with them at all.

Don't believe that I'm intolerant. This isn't an American attitude, that is shared by well over 90% of the population.

As a concerned American, I find both mentalities, from the "America is Great Satan" to "America, Love it or Leave it" kind of inaccurate.

The reprehensible things America has done should be shoved under the rug as "not as bad as what other people have done." Coming to terms with the injustices that America has perpetrated seems to be something the people and media have great trouble with. Like any country, we have our fair share of problems and moral shortcomings. The difference is that we have to potential to change it. And by saying "hey, everyone else is savage," we are invalidating any sort of claim we have to being a moral and responsible nation.

I may be something of an optimist, but I feel that we have the potential to fix the problems we've created. Not only that, but we have the responsibility to do so. Jandt does have a point in that the American people have by and large been apathetic towards the actions of our leaders, which I find to be very sad. Unfortunantly, it will take much of our time and money to get our voices heard. Our leaders need a leader themselves, and without the people to set the path, Bush and Co. follow corporate interests with zeal. Since I'm still a minor, I can't say that I've done much to change things, but I still hope that we will "wake up" to our resposibility towards our nation. Putting a flag on your truck just won't cut it anymore

Also, America is one of the greatest places on Earth to live, and I am grateful to have been born here. But this should enhance our will to improve it and make it better, make it the democratic beacon that it was so long ago. We need to shove aside irrelevant issues, make up for our mistakes in the past, and look forward to the future with hope.

As far as the shit-flinging I've seen going on in this thread, I think the joy of taking up sides has hijacked rational thought. I see generalizations left and right on both sides of the arguement. Look harder, nothing is black and white.

Maybe I should thank you, BokononistMartyr, for a call to reason. It was never my intention at the start to either pick a fight nor put down on the thread originator.

If it has appeared that it was so, then I apologise to you, jandt. It was, however, my intention to show that not all is as it seems. That it is not a black and white issue and if that did not come through as such, that rests upon my shoulders for not being clearer.

BTW, a belated welcome to the two of you to sciforums, jandt and BokononistMartyr.

Originally posted by BokononistMartyr

The reprehensible things America has done should be shoved under the rug as "not as bad as what other people have done."
WTF are you smoking, monkeyboy?

How the hell are israelis and palestines to solve their differences if even two "civilised" nations like America and Canada are engaged in flamewars?

hmmm.....Americans are number one in workers productivity. Worker productivity is what economicists use to measure quality of life.

US has the best economy in last two decades. US has the best banking system which every country emulate. Fed in US is the best in the world. In second half of 90's, unemployment rate is in the 1's. What was unemployment rate of Europe and Canada?

US won the cold war. If US don't have all that weapon, you wouldn't have a cold war. You would have a hot war instead. Chances are you wouldn't find jobs paying you more than 20 cents per hour.

US is number one in technological advancement. Just look in any reputable global research journals in engineering or medicine and look at papers published. More then half are American.

Originally posted by Joeman
hmmm.....Americans are number one in workers productivity. Worker productivity is what economicists use to measure quality of life.

US has the best economy in last two decades. US has the best banking system which every country emulate. Fed in US is the best in the world. In second half of 90's, unemployment rate is in the 1's. What was unemployment rate of Europe and Canada?

US won the cold war. If US don't have all that weapon, you wouldn't have a cold war. You would have a hot war instead. Chances are you wouldn't find jobs paying you more than 20 cents per hour.

US is number one in technological advancement. Just look in any reputable global research journals in engineering or medicine and look at papers published. More then half are American.

While most have some truth, I'm not too sure about the last one. Japan has quite a few technological advacnements too.

Originally posted by YoungWriter
While most have some truth, I'm not too sure about the last one. Japan has quite a few technological advacnements too.

Sure. Every country has technological advancement. It is all directly related to money pour into R&D. I am too lazy to look up the numbers, but if you are curious you can look up the numbers yourself. Or you can just look up research journals and look at the percentages. I know in my field they are IEEE.

America is the world's largest open-air mall.

Originally posted by Joeman
hmmm.....Americans are number one in workers productivity.Only when looked at as a raw statistic. Americans work more hours than Canadians, French, Germans, Japanese, and others. When productivity is measured as a result of "per hour worked". The United States worker falls behind France and Belgium, perhaps others as well.Worker productivity is what economicists use to measure quality of life. The current trend of industrialized nations is a reduction in hours worked, but the United States is heading in the opposite direction. With fewer home hours available to parents, the trade-off for high productivity could well be the social issues we are currently struggling to solve.

Perhaps economists should not be the ones determining quality of life.

Peace.

Originally posted by goofyfish
Only when looked at as a raw statistic. Americans work more hours than Canadians, French, Germans, Japanese, and others. When productivity is measured as a result of "per hour worked". The United States worker falls behind France and Belgium, perhaps others as well.


uhhh....NO. There is diminishing return in productivity when adding more hours. If you work only 20 hours per week, you are going to be more productive in per hour basis as if you work 40. European countries have more vacations so that explains why they have higher output per hour.


The current trend of industrialized nations is a reduction in hours worked, but the United States is heading in the opposite direction. With fewer home hours available to parents, the trade-off for high productivity could well be the social issues we are currently struggling to solve.


The current trend is the increase in worker producvity per worker. Period. Whatever way you get it. Because that is the number that is going to determine the strength of the economic recovery. Stronger worker productivity, low inflation, and low interest rates are the ingredients for economic recovery.

Only total productivity per worker justify the wage increase. In the end, workers with high output gets wage increase. productivity per hour doesn't mean anything since it is related to how many hours worked.

sorry, shouldn't

hehe, whoops...

Get out and see the world and you'll find our country isn't the best. It sucks a lot more than *** Joeman and Curly would like to admit. Perhaps it's because they were spoonfed patriotism from childhood and haven't really thought it through?

I was spoonfed patriotism, but when I looked at the facts, I really understood that I had been taught falsities.

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cheers

;)

Originally posted by GB-GIL Trans-global
Get out and see the world and you'll find our country isn't the best.

Yes. You do that before you mouth off.


It sucks a lot more than those fsckers Joeman and Curly would like to admit. Perhaps it's because they were spoonfed patriotism from childhood and haven't really thought it through?

Yup. Unpatriotic people such as yourself should be banned from this forum ;)


I was spoonfed patriotism, but when I looked at the facts, I really understood that I had been taught falsities.

Like what? Which tabloid are you talking about?

Ban people from the forum for being unpatriotic???

Spoken like a true facsist. You fit in well with the New America.

Here is a quote for you...............chilling..................


"I'm positive there's going to be the maddest of witches' sabbats. The Americans have all those characteristics of ours which up to now have made us the disturbers of the world. But they have a country of almost inexhaustable resources........over there radicalism can sweep away literally into infinity. Up to now America has still remained an old-world country, only reupholstered a bit. The real world has still to come into existence. Depend upon it, it will come."

Gauleiter Koch 1942

Originally posted by jandt
Ban people from the forum for being unpatriotic???

Spoken like a true facsist. You fit in well with the New America.

Here is a quote for you...............chilling..................


"I'm positive there's going to be the maddest of witches' sabbats. The Americans have all those characteristics of ours which up to now have made us the disturbers of the world. But they have a country of almost inexhaustable resources........over there radicalism can sweep away literally into infinity. Up to now America has still remained an old-world country, only reupholstered a bit. The real world has still to come into existence. Depend upon it, it will come."

Gauleiter Koch 1942

1. I have said this before. I never call for people to be banned. If I do, it is a joke.

2. Wow. I hope you get a heart attack.

Only a population of crack smokers could possibly have allowed their country, rights, very bodies and souls to be so stolen away and without so much as a whimper.

Um. Where do you come from? Are you from south america? You know the place where they make that crap? They also make it in Afghnistan, and many many other places, it gets imported into the USA.

Jandt seeing as how you have nothing interesting to say Im going to put you on my block list. All you seem to want to do is start a flame war. PM me when you have something halfway interesting to say.

Actually I can see Jandt being very interesting if you agree with him. A lot of people are it seems like.

EXERCISE YOUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT
I probably talk for most of my country when I say I am content with the way my government is operating now, they can never get everything right but they aren't doing a bad job. You really are not thinking clearly.

And since you totally ignore the part about us having no control over what our intelligence agencies do, I take it you now have distinguished the difference between people on the federal payroll and normal Americans.

Actually I can see Jandt being very interesting if you agree with him. A lot of people are it seems like.
Anyone will a strong opinoin is interesting....no matter how absurd the opinion is.

You have just proven my point, and one can see why I use such generalizations when it comes to 'americans'.

The majority of you say the same thing. The government is screwed up but good at heart and doing their best.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Study your own history.

The scores of countries subverted by the CIA. (Your very own elections now too......) Your intellegence agencies are the biggest drug dealers, gun runners and mass murderers on the planet.

millions of dead iraqis

300,000 dead East Timorese, Killed with American weapons and bullets, all with the blessing of HenryK.

Nixon and HenryK carpet bombing the Vietnam and setting the stage for pol pot

the slaughter of the natives, (and before you say ancient history, again, I ask you to study up on your government and the destruction of the American Indian Movement) WHAT COMES AROUND GOES AROUND, REMEMBER THE SMALLPOX IN THE BLANKETS?? HAVE FUN WITH THAT ONE, WHEN HOMELAND DEFENSE FORCES YOU TO GET VACCINATED FOR SMALLPOX!

the treatment of the blacks, untreated disease anyone??


The complacency shown by you and yours since the great missed opportunities of the sixties is the reason you are living in the twilight of your so-called democracy (which really never was, being a republic, but thats a whole other story).

You are Germany in the thirties...............You are Rome................

Enjoy your fascism!!

Personally, I think our government is making enormous mistakes which will hurt us dearly in the future, and I haven't met very many people who have confidence in Bush & Co. Also, there is a way to have control over at least the way our agencies work. If enough people make a fuss over a subject, whether by sending letters to their congressman, joining protests, etc. then at the very least the gov. will have to reconsider what they're doing.

As far as us being a nation of cracksmokers, that's a pretty unfair generalization Jandt. There are people who are actually trying to change things, but again, our voter apathy is pretty embarrassing. As far as us falling down the path of Hitler, I see it as unlikely but it the responsibility of every superpower to use it's superpowers responsibly (hehe.)

So basically, Jandt, please stop being unfair

And to pretty much everyone else, don't delude yourselves into thinking you can't change what's wrong in this country. Many people hate us all over the world, and it is in our best interest to find out why.

Originally posted by BokononistMartyr
I haven't met very many people who have confidence in Bush & Co.

Which parallel universe are you in? There is something called approval rating.

here's a clue, follow the money.


Learn who financed hitler


Investigate how close your country came to a fascist dictatorship before, if not for a General Butler, probably the greatest american hero ever, but have any of you have heard of him.


Find out what the CIA does around the world, it is all a google search away.........


Listen to what they say to each other:
"Today Americans would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order; tomorrow they will be grateful. This is especially true if they were told there was an outside threat from beyond, whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well being granted to them by their world government." -- Henry Kissinger speaking at Evian, France, May 21, 1992 Bilderburgers meeting. Unbeknownst to Kissinger, his speech was taped by a Swiss delegate to the meeting.


Think for yourself, define intent behind everything, believe nothing on CNN, but always ask, 'why are do they want me to believe that?'

Most importantly, find out what 'backround assumptions' are and why we hold them. Once examined, then kept or discarded based on intellegent thought, one can escape the fake world of cnn, monday night football, mcdonalds, democan-republicrat, welfare mom blaming, trickle down economic, terrorism, homeland defence, bullshit, that is the present reality.


But you better get to it, the fascism train has already left the station and you better believe they will tell you it is on time.

Not sure, but in my parallel universe we also have something called a "popularity gap." Kind of like with Reagan, people loved the man, hated his policies. Personally I haven't met many Bush supporters, and those that I did clearly didn't have a good understanding of the issues. After a few minutes of conversation the people I talked to ended with "Wow, I didn't know that..."

I'm certain that if enough people had a clear understanding of what things like the patriot act, homeland security etc. actually do, then we might see those approval ratings dip a little bit. Also, if people knew of the far-reaching implications of our foreign policy, then this idea of "pre-emption" might be getting harder resistance.

We are talking about America here. Our government is a wreck, tied in beaurocratic knots. We are not going to have any facist dictator here before a really bloody war. He wouldnt know how to get anything done without going by the book.

Its the biggest pro for beaurocratic clutter. The status quo is basically set in stone.

I also know the government dosnt have any control over the media. Why? Because the media keeps blabbing things the government dosnt like, they TRY to shut them up but they make no headway.

The reason for government is to protect and bring order to the people it governs.

jandt...would you mind outlining a government that does everthing perfectly for everyone that it governs?
The complacency shown by you and yours since the great missed opportunities of the sixties is the reason you are living in the twilight of your so-called democracy (which really never was, being a republic, but thats a whole other story).
they don't teach us we are living in a democracy, they teach American children they are living in a Federal (government-run) Republic (elected officials). We use democracy and America synonymously because we are the closest thing to a real democracy that can work. Communism and the Soviet Union...that wasn't real communism, just the closest thing the world has seen that works.

I heard President Bush has close to the highest approval rating in 50 years...the approval rating is asking people about his policies, not if they like the guy. And people are getting the main understanding of the homeland security act...it revamps the government and your privacy can be invaded...that's what has been reported in the newspapers.

With a political system like America's how can you look from it's birth to present day and make generalizations about America? Policies change with every new president. Are you saying there is a "secret society" that has controlled American government and it's people since the days of the signing of the Constitution and Declaration of Independance? How can this be? There have been loads of immigrants that have come here, bringing their ideas and sharing them...there is no race called "American." Ideals in America come and go that can be attributed by the diversity of the people living in the country. The facts you present contradict one of your conlcusions: Think for yourself, define intent behind everything, believe nothing on CNN, but always ask, 'why are do they want me to believe that?'
Why do you throw us these snippets that cast America as the evilest of evil...a country that cares nothing of life, that sabotages and kills? What is the intent of this...? To mask the facts that show America as being a great place to live? What is the bottom line here.....America is as ruthless as (going back to your reference of Rome) the Roman Empire, as insane as Hitler?

jandt, have you ever placed your foot inside America? What are you basing your beliefs from? Was this something taught to you...did you put this together on your own?

Why do you keep bringing up Henry Kissinger?

The reason why I keep replying to this thread is to understand why you think this. Although, you seem to have already figured out why I think the way I do because I am an American. Maybe I should pay you the same respects.

Jandt's slant on the American government is biased, as you have already figured out. You don't have to listen much to figure it out. What I can't figure out is if it is from jealousy or whether it is from someone pumping his head full of ideas.

Or there is another possibility that here is one of our own agencies hunting and sniffing around. How else to hear of those you should watch than to play the fool and tout revolution?

I don't know about you folks but I am quite happy with my life as it is. Jandt, if you want to buy a bucket of trouble, then go try and over throw your own government. I think you will find that they are just as protective of their powers and rights as any other country would be. Of course, you will have some reason why that shouldn't be done. Amazing, pot calling the kettle black...

Originally posted by jandt
Your intellegence agencies are the biggest drug dealers, gun runners and mass murderers on the planet.
Let us use some logic here. One main reason why drugs aren't legalized is because the government can't find a way to tax them. If they were selling them, they'd be making far less money than they would via taxes. I highly doubt Joe Stoner on that street corner downtown is forwarding his profits to Uncle Sam.

millions of dead iraqis
Over a period of thousands of years, that doesn't surprise me. Not to mention, the US doesn't bomb Iraq on a "weekly basis." I'm not sure if it was you, jandt, who claimed that, but I'll go on. Theres been wars in the middle east since before the supposed birth of Christ. Theres probably millions of dead israliets (sp?) and millions of dead arabs, and millions of dead saudis.
If the US has killed all Iraqi civilians on purpose, then why aren't the UN demanding we stop or that leaders from around the world withdrawing support?

And also, I'm pretty sure you're referring to the past 50 or so years, and millions is ridiculous for an unofficial war.

And in war, guess what, peolpe get killed. Yeah, your country has helped kill milions of innocents in WWII during the invasion, along with the US and UK.

Nixon and HenryK carpet bombing the Vietnam and setting the stage for pol pot
We all know Vietnam was terrbile, so get over it.


the slaughter of the natives, (and before you say ancient history, again, I ask you to study up on your government and the destruction of the American Indian Movement) And I'll ask you to look at where your Native American reserves are. Yep, they're mostly in the places where the British didn't settle, which would mean they're out of your way too. Every North American war with the Indians, regardless of your country, backstapped the natives at multiple points. When you let the natives settle in their land, I'll admit we have a problem. But for now, we're even on this one.

WHAT COMES AROUND GOES AROUND, REMEMBER THE SMALLPOX IN THE BLANKETS?? HAVE FUN WITH THAT ONE, WHEN HOMELAND DEFENSE FORCES YOU TO GET VACCINATED FOR SMALLPOX!
I don't wanna know and I'm slowly caring less and less. No one can make anybody do anything. And theres only one specimen of the smallpox virus left. Pretty hard to get into it also.

the treatment of the blacks, untreated disease anyone??

You're perfect country had slaves back in the day too. In fact, the whole word did. It started, Africans as slaves, in Africa. It is still believed that a number of tribes still practice it, though not to the cruel extent. The only thing you can blame the US for slavery wise is being the last civilized country to outlaw it.

Read 'Deep Politics' by Dr. Peter Dale Scott for info on CIA drug and gun running. Heroin was all but non existent in the US in 1954 until the CIA flooded the innercities with it. Opium during vietnam, cocaine during 1980s, you do remember iran-contra don't you (Poindexter??)

Selling drugs to your own people is nothing new, just ask the British.

Vietnam is NOT ancient history. It is a very important example of the use of the american military machine when covert operations are not enough. Kissinger is a WAR CRIMINAL and wanted for questioning by the ICC.

MILLIONS of dead Iraqis, yes this is true, and since the 1990s gulf war. Your country uses depleted uranium on its munitions. Coupled with the sanctions...............death, upon death.......

Yes, we too had blacks, but they were not slaves.
We had the underground railroad to get them away from you.
And we did not leave them with an untreated disease to watch what it does............talk about evil..............

As for the natives, Canada too has a shitty track record with them, but we did use the gattling gun, or infect them with smallpox.

Finally, there is tons of smallpox in the world, not one dose. Your homeland security is going to force a vaccination on you. If smallpox is released in the US, you can be damn sure it came from Ft. Detrick in Maryland, just like the anthrax.

*slaps everyone with a rotten fish*

Be ashamed of yourselves for trolling this thread to death. Of course, the whole purpose of the stupid topic was to troll...

__________________________________________
There is no god, afterlife or divine love. There is only Entropy, the mother from which we were all born. She tugs our souls with the beautiful, maternal love of chaos. Why do you keep Her waiting?

Yes, we too had blacks, but they were not slaves.
We had the underground railroad to get them away from you.
And we did not leave them with an untreated disease to watch what it does............talk about evil..............

Excuse me while I do this. A har, de har, de har har! Actually many americans were part of the underground railroad. You are very biased Jandt, I do not tolerate people like that. *Block* I thought I had you blocked in the first place anyways.

:bugeye:

The Americans are a united bunch, that is optomistic of their nation, critical of their institutions. We are reluctant warriors, but like a coiled rattlesnake, once treated upon will strike and do so viciously.

Americans have survived the singlemost horrible stock market crash in history, wiping out over $8 trillion (50% of the market's value). The worst terrorist attack in history. Supported our soldiers as they toppled the Taliban and al Qaeda. Both groups that had been denounced by the world, but never touched by those who stood from their pulpits and proclaimed them evil. We defeated both in a nation where the Russians and British had never mounted anything near a sucessful, all-encompasing operation. As a matter of face the Russians said, we were going to get our asses kicked.

These two events took place simultaneously and very well would have wrecked another nation with less strong citizens and government.

jandt...since you ignore everything I say (I don't think you've blocked me..yet) can you answer just one question?

Were these beliefs taught to you or did you figure them by yourself?

Just that one question.

We defeated both in a nation where the Russians and British had never mounted anything near a sucessful, all-encompasing operation.

When the Russians invaded Afghanistan, the resistance in Afghanistan had indirect support (arms supplies) from a superpower, namely the US. This was during the Cold War.

When the US went into Afghanistan to weed out Al-Qaeda, no other country gave any support to the Taliban as no one wanted to be associated with terrorism. Also, I do not think that US went in totally alone. They had support from British, Australian and even Canadian forces.

"These two events took place simultaneously and very well would have wrecked another nation with less strong citizens and government."

Haha, sorry this is hi-larious! With less strong citizens and government? You think the strength of your people had anything to do with your military victory? You think that America's army being the top in the world is a result of the strength of your nation? You are a funny, funny man!

Hey! Here's an idea... let's just return to a foreign policy of isolationism and let France, Canada and all the other scum sucking liberal yellow bellies out there act like they're at a flower power concert humming Koom-ba-ya... afterall... if it weren't for us arrogant, stupid, debt-ridden, miserable criminals (aka Americans) there would probably be peace and prosperity all over the world. Right?

Probably not, but I think it would make a significant difference...

Hey! Here's an idea... let's just return to a foreign policy of isolationism and let France, Canada and all the other scum sucking liberal yellow bellies out there act like they're at a flower power concert humming Koom- ba-ya... afterall... if it weren't for us arrogant, stupid, debt-ridden, miserable criminals (aka Americans) there would probably be peace and prosperity all over the world. Right?

Right! Because America is evil! We sodomize kittens and barbecque babies for fun! Then we rape virgins!

Of course, we could actually wonder what is wrong with the world, and what is wrong with humans. But it is way more convienient to scream "AMERIKA IZ EEVIL!".

Thanks Jandt for presenting an interesting subject.
...if someone begins to get abusive contemplating this subject, he/she is most probably one of those few uneducated American with larger ego than brains,... but it is nice to attend to their comments too.

Of course, there are other countries out there with corruption problems, with abuse of human rights problems, misused and abuse of military power.
....but they don't have Hollywood! They are third world countries not worth of comparing to US. And besides referring to those other countries would not enrich this discussion in analyzing "who are Americans?".

..Americans are anything and everything, they come on all sides and types. They can be disguised as white or black, Chinese, Indus or Muslims, they can be sleeping under a bridge or in uptown Las Vegas.
....in other words and due to its history, a very, very large refugee camp where some were able to make lots of money and wealth over other less fortunate fellows, and as such, without ownership of heritage or rich history the emptiness of identity must be summon by the self obligation to patriotism and nationalism in the absents of real belonging.

In evaluating "Who are Americans?" one would need to check events in history, and particular modern times, some facts on the record.

America has and is (compared to civilized world);
..The largest foreign debt in the world.
..The largest investor in military power and industry
..The largest foreign government manipulator.
..The most illiterate people in modern societies.
..The most disobedient of UN resolutions in last 50 years.
..The largest ratio of John and Jane Does in the world.
..The largest ration of Homeless.
..Largest economy where 2/3 relies on consumer expending.
..The only country where police are required to pull the gun
when they are scared in requesting driver's license.
..Where corrupted power is an institution.
..The only country where the flag actually blinds most citizens.
..The only country where the reserve bank manages its employer.

US government has a long history of recorded political instigations in South America, Europe, Asia and Africa. To later profit from the conflict.

....the above is just to say the list!

As an example of what is imaginable in US,..check 1960's Operation Northwoods at ABC news.

The land of the free... free to do what you want if you have the money and can get away with it!!

In summary, Americans are possibly the best and the worst of human kind blended at once.

Y'all must be really jealous, living in whatever shitholes you live in, of a nice, clean, powerful country like America. :)

Dear Xev

When I mentioned that there could be few Americans whose ego may be lot larger than their brains,... I wasn't exactly pointing at you!!

Your "living in whatever shitholes you live in" indicates a typical handicap with Geography.

.... of a nice, clean, powerful country like America!!

Ok, OK... so your bathroom is clean. Don't need to take it personally!!

USA has around 30,000,000 poor people out of 250,000,000 (all of these are estimates). That comes out to about 8.3%, or for every 8 poor people, there is 1 non poor person.

I'm pretty sure there are more poverty stricken nations.





The only country where police are required to pull the gun when they are scared in requesting driver's license.

You've never actually talked to a USA police officer, have you?

Pulling your gun is an absolute last resort.

And, of course, your generalizing the circumstance. The police officer doesn't know who else is in the car, whats in it, if they're armed, etc...

Originally posted by YoungWriter
...for every 8 poor people, there is 1 non poor person. I'm pretty sure there are more poverty stricken nations.So I guess the fact that other nations might be worse off makes an 11% poverty rate (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104520.html) okay. With the wealth this nation possesses, why should a single person live in poverty?

Peace.

Thanks youngwritter:

I would need to check those statistics from reliable resources. In the mean time, let us realized that in our civil social systems. These are not very accurate, but If you allow, I'll get back on that to you.

And yes, there are many more nations in greater poverty, but with thousands % less military investments as well as world pollutants. Besides, I was referring to civilized countries or as we refer to: First world countries!!

"You've never actually talked to a USA police officer, have you? "

Yes, I have and always end up in heat debates with them.

Typical scenario: A possible criminal (innocent until proven guilty)is laying on the floor hands behind head. Three police are walking slowly towards him asking him not to move while all three point their guns at suspect, finger on trigger. The fourth and fifth police seat on top os suspect and arrest him.

....now if police should have a self-defense, physiologically trained individual, not over weighted and fit possibly with a small degree in some sort of martial arts.

...outnumbering the suspect, why that entire circus???

They should prohibit law enforcement people to not watch TV!!

In summary, Americans are possibly the best and the worst of human kind blended at once.

That's a nice one. About the poor jeaulous people living in shitholes, we have to consider that it some cases it was American political/economical involvement that has put these people in shitholes in the first place....

i can imagine a lot of americans are proud of their "freedom to choose" and where an ambitious paperboy, chasing the American Dream, can still become a millionaire, even to an extend they kind of close their eyes for the cracks in the mirror, the downsides and the price other people have to pay for their freedom and wealth.

That's unnecessary for there are many countries where modest capitalism ensures a reasonable distibution of wealth / food / healthcare for the majority of the people.

You see, most of money generated by fixing the world markets using American influence, goes to a relatively small group of the super rich, instead of the broad middle class and certainly the large lower class is left out completely.

At the same time, the american middle class is confronted with the consequences of this ruthless policy: riots, high crime rates, their kids buying crack, signicant less safe holifay destination, because people living in whatever shithole blame them for voting a government that exploits their countries etc...etc....

I summary , during the Golden Era, the 50's and the 60's this model worjed out pretty well for the white middle class and there was peace and properity in many white suburbs and certainly no bloodstains caused by terrorists on the freshly mowed lawns, but now, I think the middle class is actually shooting in it's own foot, if they choose a government that is occupied enriching the captains of industry instead of the middle class, while at the same time exposing the middle class to the collateral damage caused by this.

Originally posted by Joeman
Which parallel universe are you in? There is something called approval rating.

LOL.... hahaha. Good humour. I like that. If you take your head out of your ass, I am sure you will see the real world.

No,

actually, I was raised in what I would describe as a 'black and white', 'leave it to beaver', family.

I was, at twenty, ready to take my place as a middle class, mcdonalds eating, prime time watching, concervative celebration type................


then I happened upon the jfk murder.


I defy anyone to seriously study the information available from the countless sources, weigh it all intellegently and objectively, and come to any conclusion other than complete government involvement.

If one does this, really takes a hard look at what happened, the path leads to all manner of horrendous acts in the name of National Security.

What is happening to your country right now began with the National Security Act of 1949. Ike warned you on his way out of office, that the military industrial complex was a recipe for disaster. The appointment of Dulles and the like to the Warren Commisison and the single-bullet theory will be no different than Kissinger and the outcome they bring now.

These are the times when change is possible. When the vail of democracy has worn so thin even the most deceived can see at least some of what shines through.

Americans ended the Vietnam War.
Without a doubt.
You can end this bid for perpetual war in the name of terror.
Without a doubt.

I just hope millions in this part of the world don't have to die before you get your shit in gear.

Originally posted by jandt
Americans ended the Vietnam War. Without a doubt.And how did we do that?
Oh, that's right... we took our nose
out of somebody else's business.

Peace.

the effect was the us took their nose out of someone else's business.

the cause was the mass political movements, protests, actions like Kent State, music and art, etc..........

To clarify, SOME, americans ended the vietnam war.

I'll keep it short.

I've been to several countries, including the USA. I found the public in general much like Australians, although they were more patriotic (ie. more concerned with arbitrary lines on a map), and far more accepting of guns. Mostly they were the same as Australians.

The problem is a totally annoying government there, far too eager to stick their nose into the affairs of other nations in the most disruptive way possible. My own government sticks its nise into other nations' affairs too, but tends to be far more covert about it.

Well my country is better than your country - so neenerneenerneener:rolleyes:

then I happened upon the jfk murder.

Wow! A serious wakeup call huh?

After spending the last hour reading this thread Ive become exhausted of all this BS being said in here. WE ALL make mistakes and WE ALL have problems. Who cares who has more problems - my country or yours? WE ALL come from this little place called Earth - cant we all just stop judging and/or basing our judgements on outside influences and Anti-American propaganda?

Jandt - Why dont you come here and meet a few Americans, you might just like us. If you dont like us, then hey, at least you can base your views on Americans on something you actually experienced, instead of something you read in a damn book.

Peace:)

to interact with americans. We have family in the states and I have been numerous times to Michigan, Florida, and New York.

I will not go there anymore however, too much risk in becoming a border statistic.

This is not a my country is better than your country thread. This is a 'wake up and smell the coffee' message.

As far as your comment about books, well...........


"Nothing makes men so imprudent and conceited as ignorance of the past and a scorn for old books." Joubert



"A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves." Bertrand de Jouvenel


"The people themselves must take the initiative to see that they will never again be led to the slaughter. To expect protection from their government is folly. Albert Einstein


"The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home." James Madison


"There is no subjugation so perfect as that which keeps the appeearance of freedom, for in that way one captures volition itself." Rousseau


"Necessity, is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the arguement of tyrants." William Pitt


The difference between you and I is the fact that I read these books and you get your info from CNN.

Contrary to popular beliefs, we Americans read also:)

Nice quotes - I have one for you. It comes from this little book called The Bible. It comes from a story of a woman that committed adultery and was sentenced to death by stoning. This is supposedly said by Jesus himself. It goes something along the lines of... "Let he who is free from sin throw the first stone". Now even though I am an athiest, this is one of my favorite quotes. In other words, stop pointing the finger at us, when you have problems and issues in your own backyard to deal with. And until Canada is the "Supreme Country with no problems of its own" - chill out and quit US bashing. Go smoke a peace pipe or something:D

Comprende?

Oh and one more thing...

I will not go there anymore however, too much risk in becoming a border statistic.

WTF does this mean?:bugeye:

Originally posted by goofyfish
So I guess the fact that other nations might be worse off makes an 11% poverty rate (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104520.html) okay. With the wealth this nation possesses, why should a single person live in poverty?

Peace.

My dear goofyfish, I was only providing an estimate on what were the estimated population and poverty population are the last time I checked. I knew I wouldn't be right. You're right though, theres no excuse for those poor.

Typical scenario: A possible criminal (innocent until proven guilty)is laying on the floor hands behind head. Three police are walking slowly towards him asking him not to move while all three point their guns at suspect, finger on trigger. The fourth and fifth police seat on top os suspect and arrest him.

That seems like a different scenario than before.

jandt: then I happened upon the jfk murder.

I'd like to discuss this with you. While I believe it certainly was a govt. cover-up, what makes you believe it was a government led assasination? Maybe we shouldn't put it in this thread, so you may e-mail or PM me.

I will not go there anymore however, too much risk in becoming a border statistic.

???:bugeye:

theres no excuse for those poor.
yes there is. It's called being part of a capitalist society. You want everyone to be above the poverty line...then take America's wealth and sprinkle a dash of communism over it.

Originally posted by YoungWriter
...I was only providing an estimate on what were the estimated population and poverty population are the last time I checked. I knew I wouldn't be right.Sorry... I wasn't challenging your figure, as you stated it was an estimate. I just threw the link in there for informational purposes.Originally posted by Grazzhoppa
yes there is [an excuse for those poor]. It's called being part of a capitalist society. You want everyone to be above the poverty line...then take America's wealth and sprinkle a dash of communism over it.Good idea. We know capitalism is not the answer, perhaps we should look for others.

Peace.

theres no excuse for those poor.

Sorry to get off subject, but what happened to "hard-work"? I grew up in poverty only because my mother chose to abuse alcohol, drugs and live on welfare. I had no college, no experience, yet I started in an entry level position and busted my ass until I was a supervisor. Now there are certain circumstances, like disability and whatnot to justify that statement, but other than that - there is no excuse except laziness. Oh no, Im starting to sound like Joe :D

conservative celebration of your great country where anyone can start working at five bucks an hour and become a millionare.

What a load of crap, I am betting you are a white guy...........

What a load of crap, I am betting you are a white guy...........

Uhh.. far from it - try Hispanic female. Just because someone is not a millionare does not mean he/she is in poverty. A load of crap? Do you think everyone should get the same paycheck wether they work as hard as the next guy? I dont, and I dont think most people do.

And I am betting that you are a white guy yourself. :D

Edit: How come you only respond to the things you disagree with? Dont you see any meaning in anything were saying? Or are you just looking for a fight?

How come you only respond to the things you disagree with? Dont you see any meaning in anything were saying? Or are you just looking for a fight?
Exactly...you don't answer head-on questions, you only argue and try to switch the subject.

this obtuse or generalistic about topics.

I allowed the silly 'who are canadians' tread to get the better of me.

However, I stand by my beliefs about the inner workings and real purpose of the american military, government, secret government and if there ever was an arguement for using generalizations, american society is it. Not your fault, the fact that twelve guys own all your media and probably all belong to the same social clubs goes a long way to explaining it.


"American life is a powerful solvent. It seems to neutralize every intellectual element, however tough and alien it may be, and to fuse it in the native goodwill, complacency, thoughtlessness and optimism."
George Santryana

However, I stand by my beliefs about the inner workings and real purpose of the american military, government, secret government and if there ever was an arguement for using generalizations, american society is it.

:D If ever there was an arguement for using generalizations, american society is it?:D

Can I tattoo this on my ass?

Who are americans?


me! motherfucker!!

:D

Originally posted by *stRgrL*
:D If ever there was an arguement for using generalizations, american society is it?:D

Can I tattoo this on my ass?

Go for it! I'd do the tattoo for you...

_________________________________________
There is no god, afterlife or divine love. There is only Entropy, the mother from which we were all born. She tugs our souls with the beautiful, maternal love of chaos. Why do you keep Her waiting?

-central philosophy of Zero, Sage of Chaos

I stand by my beliefs about the inner workings and real purpose of the american military, government, secret government and if there ever was an arguement for using generalizations, american society is it
I don't understand what you are trying to say. Would you mind try to explain it a little more?

12 men? That's a lot compared to the usual one man that rules....but you are changing the subject again. You still avoid questions that are direct and require a straight foward answer. You're getting closer to answering *stRgrL* 's questions. Why are you so general in this topic....you did give much evidence to support your beliefs. But the evidence you give just contradicts yourself...
Why do you throw us these snippets that cast America as the evilest of evil...a country that cares nothing of life, that sabotages and kills? What is the intent of this...? To mask the facts that show America as being a great place to live? What is the bottom line here.....America is as ruthless as (going back to your reference of Rome) the Roman Empire, as insane as Hitler?
Ok, your views are extremely biased, goofyfish had answered those questions for you.
With a political system like America's how can you look from it's birth to present day and make generalizations about America? Policies change with every new president. Are you saying there is a "secret society" that has controlled American government and it's people since the days of the signing of the Constitution and Declaration of Independance? How can this be? There have been loads of immigrants that have come here, bringing their ideas and sharing them...there is no race called "American." Ideals in America come and go that can be attributed by the diversity of the people living in the country.
What I think you're trying to say without saying it directly, to answer my questions:
So you dislike the people that control the government, and not the everyday American citizen then? You don't like that 12 men are controling all media...you don't like the way the American government is conducting itself. Yet you generalize that all the American people reflect the worst of our government and economic system. This is the reasoning of terrorists, they hurt the every-day people because they are ignorant of American life, they think of our politicians as the model-American! The average politician can't compare to an every-day, "normal" American. I ask you to stop blinding yourself to people like Jimmy Carter. And to turn the spotlight down on people like Henry Kissinger, Nixon, and Bush.

And that was not taught to me...I figured that on my own. As for your beliefs, I ask again; we're they taught to you, or did you figure them on your own?

Here are some other things you may want to consider having permanently affixed to your backside..........


In any one year, in America, the land of the free and home of the most millionaires, the golden opportunity country, the following happens:

27,000 commit suicide

5,000 attempt suicide

26,000 die from accidents in the home

23,000 are murdered

85,000 are wounded by firearms

38,000 of these die, including 2,600 children

13,000,000 are victiims of crime including assault, rape, armed robbery, burglary, arson and larceny

135,000 children take guns to school

5,500,000 people are arrested for all offences (not including traffic violations)

125,000 die prematurely from alcohol abuse

473,000 die prematurely from tobacco abuse

6,500,000 use heroin, crack, speed, PCP, cocaine or some other hard drug on a regular basis

31,450,000 use maraijuana, 3,000,000 of which are heavy users

37,000,000, or one out of every six americans, regularly use emotion-controlling medical drugs.

2,000,000 nonhospitalized persons are given powerful mind-control drugs, sometimes called 'chemical straightjackets'

600-1000 are lobotomized


I could go on for hours but my fingers would hurt. The point here is stop the conservative celebration crap. At least a liberal complaintist has a hope of conversion.

So whats your point? What - We have people that kill themselves and abuse alcohol and drugs, and have mental problems? Who doesnt?

What about The number of Canadians injured as a result of alcohol-involved crashes may have been over 1,000,000.

Yeah, great beer huh?

Source (http://www.madd.ca/news/pr/p020801.htm)

You forgot something that negates the purpose of all your ranting.

America
Rank in military power: 1
Rank in economic power: 1
Rank in kickass ability: 1


Need I say more? Whine all you want but Sammy will continue to rock the world.

_________________________________________
There is no god, afterlife or divine love. There is only Entropy, the mother from which we were all born. She tugs our souls with the beautiful, maternal love of chaos. Why do you keep Her waiting?

-central philosophy of Zero, Sage of Chaos

I hate your government. It is a tool of the elite of the world and has been under an ever fluctuating amount of control since 1949. Never has this been as true as it is now and the world is a very dangerous place because of it. Almost nothing happens in international politics that does not involve some american intellegence serivce black op.

The people, while generally decent, with the exception of the conservative celebration types, are sick, tired, confused, and propagandized to death. In denial more than the population of any other nation and generally have no clue what is really happening in the world, or even where in the world anything is due to the controlled media and dissmal education system. And your arrogent.

Just about enough said, I would say.

Unless someone wants to talk about the coming fascist revolution and what you are doing to stop it.

Statistics....I thought you don't like stats, something about becoming a border statistic...?

Stop with those biased remarks...another ignorant statement:
the land of the free and home of the most millionaires, the golden opportunity country
So you think we are all have money to spend, we are all happy-go-lucky people? Another misconception.

Being American is not being part of a race of people, we are exactly the same as the people of your country, just like you. Have you ever taken St. John's Wort? In Germany, 1 in every 3 people have a presciption for it....and that's not including prozac and other similar medications, what does that say about Germany? ABSOLUTELY nothing. So they like being happy.

Ya.... what he said:D

entirely.

Your population has been dumbed down, drugged, and dragged through the social-economic sewer.

All the evidence of the past points to a coming fascist revolution in your country. In fact, it began on 9/11, you cannot see the forest for the trees.

Study jfk, iran-contra, operation gardenplot and rex84 (that was poindexder and he's back baby). Kissinger said in 1992 at a bilderberger mtg..............

The info is at your fingertips, but if they have their way it won't be for long...........

I think this thread is a lost cause.

Jandt: I truly hope one day you open your eyes and see people for who they are not where they live.

Peace

glad to see your all for the american military strength, you should be dodging bullets as cannon fodder before the decade is out. Fighting against the perpetual enemy.............I wonder which country you will die in for oil?

This thread lacks entertainment and educational value for me to participate in. If you post for any other reasons, seek help.

Posted by jandt (concerning every-day American people):
The people, while generally decent, with the exception of the conservative celebration types, are sick, tired, confused, and propagandized to death. In denial more than the population of any other nation and generally have no clue what is really happening in the world, or even where in the world anything is due to the controlled media and dissmal education system. And your arrogent.
*sigh* What we learn here: jandt likes conservative-celebration types of people, which I do not know who they are.

When saying a country is in denial, you automatically bring any discussion to a stalemate. The American people are in denial about the world around them...? Then everything I say, you will say that it is all propaganda, that it's not real...that leaves me with no option to discuss anything.

You are trying to convince us by showing only one side of the arguement, the part that America is evil and should die. You show that with tid bits of our darkest hours, stats of drug use, and a conspiracy of an assinated president. That, my Canadian friend, is propaganda.

in getting, lets say, a kkk member to defend his beliefs, (which is comparable to this thread), then you just don't know what humour is..........notice the CORRECT spelling of humour.

Ooohhh.... your post was better than mine:p

jandt...answer this question which will certainly stump you...

YOU AND WHAT ARMY? :p

US rocks the world. Nothing you can do about it. Kingpin country, world power, economic giant etc. Of course, you could protest uselessly against a power that is quite a formidable one and beyond the level of your oil toting countries. It wouldn't matter a bit.

Fair enough?

_________________________________________
There is no god, afterlife or divine love. There is only Entropy, the mother from which we were all born. She tugs our souls with the beautiful, maternal love of chaos. Why do you keep Her waiting?

-central philosophy of Zero, Sage of Chaos

notice the CORRECT spelling of humour.

:bugeye:

Who cares if people are liberal or conservative? Conservatism doesn't help anyone. Neither does liberality. The only thing that DOES work is the constant bickering of liberal/conservative. I'm happy as long as they bicker, but not when one starts to dominate.

Checks and balances!!! Good stuff. Not just to the whole 3 branch gov, it has to be in everything. And that's part of the US's power.

_________________________________________
There is no god, afterlife or divine love. There is only Entropy, the mother from which we were all born. She tugs our souls with the beautiful, maternal love of chaos. Why do you keep Her waiting?

-central philosophy of Zero, Sage of Chaos

The USA is the ultimate extension of every destruction of civilized life on earth: disposable products, no long-term values, convenience, self-gratification, absolute religion and race-mixing.

Death to the jUSA.

Then do as we do with KKK members....look at them and laugh at their silly costumes. The difference of an organization like the KKK and the county like the United States of America is that the KKK's beliefs are never going to change.

I repeat again:
American is not a race...and to add...it's not an organization either. Diversified people constitute it's population and you seem smart enough to know that not all people share the same beliefs, and especially they don't share the same political views.

The problem with people that only get information about America from secondary sources or primary sources that are biased beyond-belief, is that they cannot unlearn to stop hating a country for it's dominance. If America wasn't a superpower, and Canada was...would our viewpoints in this discussion be reversed?

I ask again: Did you form these beliefs on your own, or were they taught to you?

Only morons can't spell humor. It is humor not humour. It's color not colour.

Only moronic people adapt a version of bastardized American football.

Q. What are chess made in Canada called?
American chess :D

...why do you keep leaving out the fact that USA is dominant power? Refusal to accept reality?

_________________________________________
There is no god, afterlife or divine love. There is only Entropy, the mother from which we were all born. She tugs our souls with the beautiful, maternal love of chaos. Why do you keep Her waiting?

-central philosophy of Zero, Sage of Chaos

Originally posted by prozak
race-mixing.

Death to the jUSA.

Do I smell KKK here?

Originally posted by *stRgrL*
Contrary to popular beliefs, we Americans read also:)

Nice quotes - I have one for you. It comes from this little book called The Bible. It comes from a story of a woman that committed adultery and was sentenced to death by stoning. This is supposedly said by Jesus himself. It goes something along the lines of... "Let he who is free from sin throw the first stone". Now even though I am an athiest, this is one of my favorite quotes. In other words, stop pointing the finger at us, when you have problems and issues in your own backyard to deal with. And until Canada is the "Supreme Country with no problems of its own" - chill out and quit US bashing. Go smoke a peace pipe or something:D

Comprende?

You say nothing of this post. I'm surprised. You'd probably through out some statistic proving this wrong:eek:.

I will not go there anymore however, too much risk in becoming a border statistic.
Still haven't answered this.

What a load of crap, I am betting you are a white guy...........

This shows your ignorance. You were replying to Strgrl's post.



secret government

How is it secret if you know about it:D Seriously, there is no new world order.

A secret government just isn't possible. Policies may change with just one member of Congress being absent or his/her seat being won by someone else.

home of the most millionaires
Somebody worked for that money, ya know? Bill Gates just didn't snap his fingers.

27,000 commit suicide

5,000 attempt suicide

That doesn't quite make sense. If 27,000 commit suicide, doesn't that mean 32,000 attempted suicide?

5,500,000 people are arrested for all offences

You make that sound like a bad thing.

37,000,000, or one out of every six americans, regularly use emotion-controlling medical drugs.

So is that bad?

Most of those statistics don't prove any point whatsoever. Every country has people that use drugs, commit suicide, that are arrested, hurt by stuff, take Prozac, etc...

I just noticed: the first page of this thread has the best responses...it sums up the last 3 pages very nicely.

CONSERVATIVE CELEBRATION - The system is great, work hard and be rewarded, America is the number one country in the world.

LIBERAL COMPLAINT - There are countless problems to address but the system is basically ok, we just need to work harder. The conservatives are misguided.

RADICAL ANALYSIS - A radical analysis rejects the first two and says that the system itself is wrong. The have nots are created by the demands of the rich and corporate welfarism. American foreign policy is too blame for most of the worlds ills as no society is left to develop on its own. American hegemony is a danger to every living thing on the planet.

Want to learn more??

Read anything by Dr. Michael Parenti

www.michaelparenti.org

"Here at home and throughout the world people are fighting back against the forces of wealth, privilege, and militarism -- some because they have no choice, others because they would choose no other course but the one that leads to peace and justice."
Michael Parenti

worthy of being a member of the greatest country on earth.........


http://www.auburn.edu/~greenpm/CanadianApplication.html

beautiful....and I thought till now that this wasn't a Canada vs USA thread....I'm sorry to waste my time on this.


bye.

I think what you have here is a closet revolutionary who wants someone to pull his chestnuts out of the fire for him. (In how he sees the world) Notice that he has very little ability to address the issues and prefers to ignore them.

It takes all kinds to make a world. You have a sterling example of such within the originator of this thread, a very close minded individual...

humour,

HUMOUR!

No one wants to go with the coming fascism in the US gov't discussion, so............

How can a country with a free market economy, checks and balances, and people with a vioce turn to fascism? You have seen what happened with the civil-right movement, and those were minorities voicing something....imagine if the majority of the country voiced the same thing, the government couldn't avoid that.
---------------------------
Now, I'll steer away from discussing your "secret society" that controls the government...but even if they have been feeding us propaganda and will turn to fascism....you IGNORE the fact that the UN would not stand for something like that. I can say, that the majority of the citizens of the USA DO NOT want a fascist government, they don't want to change what they have. The way you talk about fascism, it's a bad thing....the people will be mistreated? The UN would fix that problem, there's no doubt. So why worry....unless you have a conspiracy that the US government controls every country in the UN.

And why worry, you're in Canada. You've been a long time ally...your country would probably be part of the UN force to overthrow the "fascist American government" too. And then you guys can help set up a new regime.

And that is all hypothetical....

----------------------------

You still haven't answered my question: Were your beliefs taught to you or did you figure them out yourself.....or was it a combination (someone/people steered you in the direction).

Here it is again...........
And I will be back to discuss your governments fascist leanings in a while...........


Was I taught these beliefs?
No,

actually, I was raised in what I would describe as a 'black and white', 'leave it to beaver', family.

I was, at twenty, ready to take my place as a middle class, mcdonalds eating, prime time watching, conservative celebration type................


then I happened upon the jfk murder.


I defy anyone to seriously study the information available from the countless sources, weigh it all intellegently and objectively, and come to any conclusion other than complete government involvement.

If one does this, really takes a hard look at what happened, the path leads to all manner of horrendous acts in the name of National Security.

What is happening to your country right now began with the National Security Act of 1949. Ike warned you on his way out of office, that the military industrial complex was a recipe for disaster. The appointment of Dulles and the like to the Warren Commisison and the single-bullet theory will be no different than Kissinger and the outcome they bring now.

These are the times when change is possible. When the vail of democracy has worn so thin even the most deceived can see at least some of what shines through.

Americans ended the Vietnam War.
Without a doubt.
You can end this bid for perpetual war in the name of terror.
Without a doubt.

I just hope millions in this part of the world don't have to die before you get your shit in gear.

Originally posted by jandt
worthy of being a member of the greatest country on earth.........


http://www.auburn.edu/~greenpm/CanadianApplication.html

You have just thrown away any meaning you might've had in your posts.

From the webiste:
Note: Ignorance is not tolerated in Canada. If ignorance is detected anywhere in this application, your application will be nullified.)
So how'd you pass this, jandt, since you thought strgrl was a guy:confused: :D ?

Thanks, I understood that post and it seemed reasonable and now I understand why you think all that. My knowledge of our national security in 1949 is little, except the start of the cold war (I think?).

Thanks, and sorry if I missed the answer back there.

humour

OK HUMOR,

now do you understand?

Do you really believe that application is real? Did you look at it?


No Way are we letting you in...........

YoungWriter, ......following on your statistic Following on your Statistics perception and as I promised, check the following picture on based on our national records. www.infoplease.com

Who are Americans? or What is America?

Population (2001) 284,796.887
Whites 202,113.925
All-Other (30%) 82,682.962

Infant Mortality rate (2002) 0.7%

Total Arrests (2000) 9,1 Million (3.2% of population)
Total prison inmates (2001) 1.9 Million
Law enforcement killed (1999) 107
Violent crimes (2000) 14,4 Thousand
Property crimes (2000) 103,0 Thousand
Homicides (2000) 156,6 Thousand

Consumer credit outstanding (2001) $1,702.8 billion
Below poverty level (2000) 31.139 Million (10 % population)
Avg. TV sets per household. (2002) 2.4
Cable TV household. (2001) 69%
TV+VCR per household (2001) 91%

High School dropouts (2002) 10.9 %

Microzoft,

Welcome to sciforums!:D

Now, statistics can be used to prove anything, 13% of all people know that.

High School dropouts (2002) 10.9 %

A lot of highschool dropouts end up in night school after a while. My half-sister Candy (not april, adam) dropped out at the age of 17. When she turned 20 she went back to school and is now about to graduate from college.

The amount of people attending college in kentucky has went up 23% here. These are students directly out of highschool.

So, one in ten highschool students dropout? I believe it, but they end up going right back.

CounslerCoffee: Thanks for your comments

Statistics are only a general representation. Particularly if they are taken from a single source as it is the case here. A non-bias source would have share more detail insights, but I didn’t have the time.

When statistics indicate 2.4 TV’s per household. It shouldn’t be interpreted as,.. If I only have one TV I better go and get me a 1.4 of another TV. ..You follow?

I personally congratulate Candy for making a great effort at that age. Many youngsters have to do that all around the world. However that statistic only refers to HS dropouts, and not to the potential of individuals. This statistic covers only up to the age of 20 and serves to give a little insight on the system and society. Nothing else!

Originally posted by jandt
humour

OK HUMOR,

now do you understand?

Do you really believe that application is real? Did you look at it?


No Way are we letting you in...........

Of course theres no way of me getting in, since you rule Canada and all:p :rolleyes:.

Not everybosy out there is hating the average american on the street, but it's rather the foreign policies of their government that generates criticism all over the world.

However fighting the Independance War has given americans a strong sense of patriotism. Commenting the policies of their government is often perceived as coming from people hating the average american, for living a live in relative freedom and wealth.

Now in a sense, it is not strange a lot of people DO actually hold americans on the streets responsible for the actions of their government as americans choose their president themselves.

I wouldn't think that all americans agree with the foreign policies of their government but i have the perception that a lot of americans are just too busy chasing the american dream and as long as they can buy a new car next year the government can have it's way....

I think that the if the us government raises the gasoline prices it would create far more angry response in the streets than if the us government decides to invade Canada, after all these Canucks had it coming and raising gasoline prices hurts MY wallet and limits MY freedom wich seems so much more important than anything else....

Vortexx:

Hate is a multipurpose expression and not necessary a literal at best. Hate to US around the world is, and you well indicated. A dislike to our government concerning foreign issues and interventions.

Our overwhelming nationalism and patriotism may not be a cause resulted from our Independence war. Analyzing the population growth, particularly immigration and origins
since that war establishes the point. Also, our national extremism is very unique, try and consult a typical modern patriot with our large flag in front of the house about simple historical events

I have found during my travels in other parts of the world, particularly Europe and Asia that in average, foreigners are far more informed about world history than we do, even about American history. Other countries in Europe have had civil wars, in general, they express nationalism or national identity and are proud, but they don’t overuse the flag. Perhaps because older countries (example Asia & Europe) carry their identities within and flags are only thought of, on national days or some special events.

We make a worldwide propaganda of been the land of the free, ..the first democracy. But we can not prove it by facts,. but who cares, right? Important is that we believe it. If we were to wake up from our ignorance’s and analyze or government’s real role and agenda on foreign (official & unofficial) interventions, we would realized that as ancestors from emigrants we were always more concerned with our narrow surroundings and since we do not have prehistoric identities or roots, our government always had a free hand to do as pleased overseas as long as we had a free road ahead of us here at home.

In the 50’s the underground groups of our government could indescribably use the title “communist” to manipulate regional events. During the last 60 years we allowing (capital powerful) groups such as the Trilateral, Bilderbergers & Foreign Relations Committee without any sense of accountability, We are the first and only nation to have use Atomic warfare against civilians and never be called to accountability. We support an international Court of Law, but we must influence it or otherwise our military should be exempted from trials. We have a long record of helping and supporting Dictators while they were committing crimes in the name of been the best to our interests. …..We are a corrupted police, how can we now attempt to be the international judge??

Our treasure is officially in the hands of privates to whom the employer (us, our elected government must pay interests), … do you know other civilized country that allows that??

But you a right,… When the petrol stops flowing and when China has become an opened society, we will wake up!! I guess it will be in less than ten years.

Some Americans, myself included, are ashamed at what our country has become. The nation that our Founding Fathers set in motion is no more. It is hard not to be pessimistic about the future, especially with someone like GW in office. I will continue to try, in my own small way, to change things for the better.

Love the flag!

Welcome to SciForums, RMC!I will continue to try, in my own small way, to change things for the better.Try in what manner?

Peace.

Originally posted by goofyfish
Welcome to SciForums, RMC!Try in what manner?

Peace.


Hi. Neat forum.

Well, there are a number of small ways. Speaking out, writing letters to the editor, participating in protests, etc. I also try & engage my students in such a way as to have them question many of their assumptions & attitudes (read: programming by the media) & to think for themselves. As I said, it is hard to not become completely pessimistic...but I am not one to completely give up. I still think, maybe naively, that the American people will wake-up someday. It may not happen in my lifetime, but maybe my children & students will live in a better world. They are our only hope, IMO.

Cheers

Originally posted by jandt
Love the flag!


Hi. Thanks.

I wouldn't think that all americans agree with the foreign policies of their government but i have the perception that a lot of americans are just too busy chasing the american dream and as long as they can buy a new car next year the government can have it's way....
I agree Vortexx
....we would realized that as ancestors from emigrants we were always more concerned with our narrow surroundings and since we do not have prehistoric identities or roots, our government always had a free hand to do as pleased overseas as long as we had a free road ahead of us here at home.
Microzoft seems to agree too.
We support an international Court of Law, but we must influence it or otherwise our military should be exempted from trials
Microzoft, is this really a solid fact? Besides any "secret/black" operations that may be illegal does our government really influence international courts that much that we are exempt from any kind of charges? There are many countries that are part of the UN....at least one of them would have "the balls" to call us on something that was inhumane or violates international law. I think our government doesn't has as much influence as you think...they are just more careful to either hide their wrong-doings (surely there are some) or they get support for doing something....as they are trying to do with Iraq. We would not go in alone because of potential charges brought up on us....we gain support before we do something. If it wasn't for the international courts, Bush would have already taken Iraq and have Saddam hung, then given the "chair," then thrown in a ring of angry bulls to be pulverized.
Our treasure is officially in the hands of privates to whom the employer (us, our elected government must pay interests), … do you know other civilized country that allows that??
That is because we run a free market economy, where private business is encouraged over nationalizing business. Again, as brought up before in this thread...a dash of communism is what you ask for if you don't want privates holding our "treasure."
Some Americans, myself included, are ashamed at what our country has become. The nation that our Founding Fathers set in motion is no more. It is hard not to be pessimistic about the future, especially with someone like GW in office. I will continue to try, in my own small way, to change things for the better.
In response to this and that flag (btw, it's very good)......if your ashamed (or angry) that your life revovles around paying big companies in order to lead a nice life, then you don't know what the "founding fathers" (i.e. rich, white, older men) wanted. They wanted a free market....but no one knows if they had forseen that it could lead to what we have today, where businesses control the people's lives. The "American dream" was to come to this "wonderful" country, start a trade or business, then get filthy rich, just like the aristocrats back in Europe. When you have people striving for money, they don't care what they do to get it....many revisions to business laws have had to be made because we found that out the hard way. Although those laws were too late. The oil industry, for one, has screwed people over since J. D. Rockefeller. Andrew Carnegie did the same thing for the steel industry, except he gave back to the people....he was aiming for the American dream but didn't become a European aristocrat-copycat.

Sidenote: The world does judge America by what it's military does rather than what it's citizens do.
I learned this recently: The word "gringo" (a purposely degrading term) that Spanish-speaking people (mostly from Central/South America) call Americans came from when the American military was down in Central America. What color is the US's army fatigues...?....they're green most of the time, so the people would say "green, go" as in go away, it turned into "gringo." Interesting fact, if nothing else.

http://www.georgewalkerbush.net/presidentialiqs.htm




Presidential IQ's


In a report published Monday, the Lovenstein Institute of Scranton, Pennsylvania detailed its findings of a four month study of the intelligence quotient of President George W. Bush.

Since 1973, the Lovenstein Institute has published it's research to the education community on each new president, which includes the famous "IQ" report among others.

According to statements in the report, there have been twelve presidents over the past 50 years, from F. D. Roosevelt to G. W. Bush who were all rated based on scholarly achievements, writings that they alone produced without aid of staff, their ability to speak with clarity, and several other psychological factors which were then scored in the Swanson/Crain system of intelligence ranking.

The study determined the following IQs of each president as accurate to within five percentage points:

147 Franklin D. Roosevelt (D) 132 Harry Truman (D) 122 Dwight D. Eisenhower (R) 174 John F. Kennedy (D) 126 Lyndon B. Johnson (D) 155 Richard M. Nixon (R) 121 Gerald Ford (R) 175 James E. Carter (D) 105 Ronald Reagan (R) 098 George HW Bush (R) 182 William J. Clinton (D) 091 George W. Bush (R)

The study determined the following IQs of each president as accurate to within five percentage points:

The six Republican presidents of the past 50 years had an average IQ of 115.5, with President Nixon having the highest IQ, at 155.

President G. W. Bush was rated the lowest of all the Republicans with an

IQ of 91. The six Democrat presidents had IQs with an average of 156, with President Clinton having the highest IQ, at 182. President Lyndon B. Johnson was rated the lowest of all the Democrats with an IQ of 126. No president other than Carter (D) has released his actual IQ, 176.

Among comments made concerning the specific testing of President GW Bush, his low ratings were due to his apparent difficulty to command the

English language in public statements, his limited use of vocabulary (6,500 words for Bush versus an average of 11,000 words for other presidents), his lack of scholarly achievements other than a basic MBA, and an absence of any body of work which could be studied on an intellectual basis.

The complete report documents the methods and procedures used to arrive at these ratings, including depth of sentence structure and voice stress confidence analysis.

"All the Presidents prior to George W. Bush had a least one book under their belt, and most had written several white papers during their education or early careers. Not so with President Bush," Dr. Lovenstein said. "He has no published works or writings, so in many ways that made it more difficult to arrive at an assessment. We had to rely more heavily on transcripts of his unscripted public speaking."

The Lovenstein Institute of Scranton Pennsylvania think tank includes high caliber historians, psychiatrists, sociologists, scientists in human behavior, and psychologists. Among their ranks are Dr. Werner R. Lovenstein, world-renowned sociologist, and Professor Patricia F. Dilliams, a world-respected psychiatrist.

This study was commissioned on February 13, 2001 and released on July 9, 2001 to subscribing member universities and organizations within the education community.

yippee

Well really, I never knew the history of the Afghan-Soviet War. Thanks for informing me. NOT!!!

Well, no shit. Regardless of a lack of external support, the Taliban, was "a formitable foe", that crumbled when we touched them. I understand better than anyone here what military supremecy can do and what it means.

As for the strength of our people. This has everything to do with the military winning. When it comes down to it, the best guns, planes, bombs, ships and every war implement is only as good as the boy or girl operating it. A completely volunteer military is something to be proud of.

A completely volunteer military is something to be proud of.

Yes it is

IQ tests are inconclusive, that's why they aren't used in public schools anymore.

I'm sure Bush didn't participate in an actual test, neither did most of those other Presidents. Upon the fact that they did take the tests, it should be noted WHEN they took the tests. If W took the test in his 20s, he is obviously way more intelligent that he was then. I'm sure anyone over 30 can testify to that bit of truth.

A braniac for President, especially during war, isn't always the best thing. Intelligent people are usually more indecisive on matters, and become far too e