The Home of Islam, of course Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Saudi Arabia The Church in Saudi Arabia is living under the most difficult circumstances. The regime has declared the entire Arabian peninsula 'Haram,' forbidden to all other religions, and it is enforcing this prohibition strictly. Freedom of religion does not exist. The Government prohibits the practice of other religions, be it in Public or in Private. Saudi law states that no churches may be built north of Yemen and south of Jordan. It is impossible for foreigners to visit Saudi Arabia as tourists. One can only enter the kingdom on business visa (i.e. on the invitation of a company already active in the country), or as a Muslim pilgrim. The survey of problems and needs of the Church in Saudi Arabia is completely determined by the total prohibition of any religion but Islam. [..] 1. Heavy surveillance of Saudi society by the Mutawwa'in and the Ministry of the Interior The Saudi Religious Police (Mutawwa'in) is practically omnipresent in Saudi Arabia. Their power is almost limitless. The Mutawwa'in have special prisons where they torture their victims. Their behaviour is often ruthless. Their aim is to ascertain that all citizens (and expatriates) adhere to strict Islamic legislation. [...] On daily life The Mutawwa'in control every aspect of daily life. They patrol the streets in their cars, check in shops if women are dressed according to Islamic dress codes, see that all shops are closed during prayer times, watch that no signs of other religions are visible, etc [...] Systematic Discrimination based on Sex and Religion are Built into Saudi law. By religious law and social custom, women have the right to own property and are entitled to financial support from their husbands or male relatives. However, women have few political and social rights and are not treated as equal members of society. There are no active women's rights groups, nor would one be tolerated by the Government. Women, including foreigners, may not legally drive motor vehicles or ride bicycles and are restricted in their use of public facilities when men are present. Women must enter city buses by separate rear entrances and sit in specially designated sections. Women risk arrest by the Mutawwa'in for riding in a vehicle driven by a male who is not an employee or a close male relative. Women are not admitted to a hospital for medical treatment without the consent of their male relative(s). By law and custom, women may not undertake domestic and foreign travel alone. [...] On media and telecommunications The law severely limits freedom of Speech and Press. The authorities do not countenance criticism of Islam, the ruling family, of the government. Persons whose criticism align with an organised political opposition are subject to arrest and detention until they confess their crime or sign a statement promising not to resume such criticisms, which is tantamount to a confession.." Political situation Saudi Arabia is a monarchy without elected representative institutions or political parties. It is ruled by King Fahd bin Abd Al-Aziz Al Saud, a son of King Abd Al-Aziz Al Saud, who unified the country in the early 20th century. The King and the Crown Prince are chosen from among the male descendants of King Abd Al-Aziz. There is no written constitution. There is no concept of the separation of state and religion. The Government enforces adherence to the precepts of a rigorously conservative form of Islam - a position that enjoys near-consensus support among Saudi citizens...." Human rights There is an almost total Lack of freedoms in Saudi Arabia. The government commits or tolerates serious abuses. Aspects of the law Prohibit or Restrict freedoms of Speech, Press, Assembly, and Association. There is systematic Discrimination against Women, and strict limitations, and even Suppression, of the rights of Workers and of Ethnic and Religious minorities. Ministry of Interior officers allegedly abused prisoners and facilitated incommunicado detention in contradiction of Saudi law, but with the acquiescence of the Government. Arbitrary arrest and prolonged detention are problems, as well as Violence against women. There is no mechanism for citizens to change their government. Since the death of King Abd Al-Aziz, the King and Crown Prince have been chosen from among his sons, who themselves have had preponderant influence in the choice. A 1992 royal decree reserves for the King exclusive power to name the Crown Prince. The government bases its legitimacy on governance according to Islamic law. The government disagrees with internationally accepted definitions of human rights and views Islamic law as the only necessary guide to protect human rights. Among the limitation of freedoms is the fact that you cannot even decide for yourself which radio or television station you would like to watch: it is forbidden to have a dish antenna in Saudi Arabia, but many possess a dish antenna anyway. Amnesty International, which is not particularly popular in Saudi Arabia, is constantly accusing the country of violating human rights. In 1993 80 people were killed by receiving the death penalty. There was no change in the practice in 1994, when 'only' 59 people were executed. The 1995 total was considerably higher than that (191). There were twice as many Non-Saudis Executed as Saudis. The juridical system is based upon the Shariah law, and one could call it Medieval. Should you be arrested in Saudi Arabia, you'd better forget about human rights. The Government does Not permit visits by International human rights groups or independent monitoring groups, nor has it signed major international human rights treaties and conventions. The Government Disagrees with internationally accepted definitions of human rights and views Islamic law as the only necessary guide to protect human rights. Citations of Saudi human rights abuses by international monitors or foreign governments are routinely ignored or condemned by the Government as assaults on Islam..." http://www.opendoors.org/content/saudipro.htm http://www.opendoors.org/content/saudipro2.htm
Terrible people, of course non-Muslims want to go to a large mosque. Israel should immediately denounce Saudi Arabia. NOW.
I note in another string, you spent 5 years in Saudi Arabia - and your handle starts with 'S.A.' Just a coincidence probably, but interesting. We do know you weren't there for the beaches and Night life.
I can say we have two alternatives with Saudi Arabia: 1- To export democracy to them just as we did to Iraq and make it a prosperous country exactly same as Iraq.. or 2- We can start a propaganda campaign against them and argue that their water distillation facilities are in fact covert laboratories for making nuclear weapons. Then we can force the rest of the world to , however unwillingly, support us impose unbearable sanctions on them and kill hundreds of thousands of those religious bastards from hunger and illnesses, again like we did in Iraq Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
The point is not "what should be done". The point is to show you what they are. Many retards call Israel's system of government "Apartheid" when it is anything but. The same people are quick to call on all kind of things that need to be done about it. Well, here is your hypocricy: a real Apartheid system and none want want to say a single negative word about it. Double standards.
You'll be happy to know that you are now going better than Saudi Arabia. http://www.counterpunch.org/aloni01082007.html
hello SAM How dare you post such anti semitic propaganda from that anti semitic website counterpunch!!!!! You should know better, you bad girl you :spank: ~~~~~~~ Most disappointedly zak
EXactly! No UN Sanctions. Not a peep. No Boycott of Saudi Academics. For what is a GROTESQUELY Apartheid Society- blowing away even #2 .. IRAN. LOL
Yeah AA tell me why or what Sadddam had to do with the war on terror.. Of course the US shuld be gnnning for the KSA, I have been banging on about this for ages. But of course they wont cos the war on terror has nothing to do with terror.... It aint my fault the US does jack shit wiht the KSA, but takes out a moderate country like Iraq and turns it into a hot bed of shit!! ~~~~~~~~~~ Cheers zak
Huh? And this has what to do with "who has Apartheid"? Your position on the Invasion of S.A. is noted for future discussion
S.A.M.! it is really disappointing that you call the human-loving peaceful regime of Israel an apartheid one just because they have taken other's lands by force, misused the holocaust to exploit the European and American embarrassment as a direct tool for enticing unquestioning support for their anti-palestinian hostilities, and constantly kill the palestinians indiscriminately. Shame on you! LOL
If only all the Bizarre things you said in your post were true than S.A.M. would indeed be validated. Alas... they aren't. I especially liked the incredible "How they [Jews] Misused the Holocaust" though! A real classic. I haven't even seen Any case for "apartheid Israel", just empty slander, while I started this string with an Air-tight one against Saudi Arabia.
I was reading in New Scientist oil production peaked in 2006. I was also reading that Egypt exports in a year what South Korea exports in a 3 days. The entire Arab world combined has the amount of exports equal to Thailand. The amount of money the entire Arab ME spends on patents (a measure of a country's ability to adapt modern sophisticated products into their economy) is already very small and is actually shrinking smaller by the year. Because of the population explosion, the people in the ME need their economy's to grow at a minimum of 12% - just to give everyone an opportunity at employment - can they do it? This time there are no easy pickings like the Persians, Indians, Egyptians, Romans, Spanish and Byzantine to steal wealth from. The real question is are the Christian, Hindu and Buddhist nations of the World going to be happy to send KSA et.al. food aid in 20 years? Oil peaked in 2006 - it's literally all downhill from here. What sort of concessions will the Americans demand in return for food aid to the Muslim ME? I predict Churches will be built and Muslims converting by the mouthfuls by the end of 3 decades (it usually takes a good decade of starvation to get in the right frame of mind).
An interesting take. This is something that I have been telling people for a couple years now. The ME needs to start investing SERIOUSLY in upgrading its economy. The sorry thing is, that the virtual disenfranchisement of half the population is really working against the entire region. The only four Middle Eastern nations that have (or had) been on the right track are Turkey, Israel, UAE and [erstwhile] Iraq. Iraq is now in shambles and will be a decade from anything even remotely stable. Israel gets plenty of western corporate investments and doesn't seem to have any trouble growing and diversifying their economies, and Turkey with its stable economy and "westernizing" approach, is growing rapidly and (relative to its neighbors) and in a stable fashion, and is set to be the regional great power for the next 50 years-- a fact that has many of its neighbors fearing a resurgent Ottoman Empire and/or greater hydraulic despotism from the north. The UAE has gotten practically every cent of its diversification investments from the various Emirs and all of that money has been dumped into one Emirate: Dubai. While the rest of the nation languishes in it's oil dependence with little industrialization. Though this diversification has been wise, it may not be enough to carry the UAE into the next century. What happens when the money runs out, the citizens start getting hungry and they can peak just over the brick walls and see rich foreigners eating lots of food and living in luxury? Syria & Pakistan are the only two Muslim nations that have been focusing on industrializing with all due pace, but pressure on the corporations of western nations NOT to invest in [perceived] terror supporting / unstable Middle Eastern regimes has stymied any investment dollars from the G7. With the current population growth of Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran and Pakistan, there will be FEWER jobs for their citizens than there are now, and when the oil runs out, how much worse will their lives be? After that time, all the horrible meddling form the west will be a wonderful memory compared to the total disinterest form rich industrialized nations who no longer have any reason to even know what's going on in the ME, let alone, trouble themselves with helping them out. Just look at Africa-- that, sadly, is where the ME is heading unless they start investing more in infrastructure and industrial diversification-- because when the oil runs out, so will the concern for their well being. Unfortunately, such investments mean a degree of "openness" that few in the ME have shown themselves capable of. ~String
Actually, things are going to start turning for the worse before the oil runs out, more like as soon as the West and East begin to diversify their energy sources away from oil. The squeeze is probably being felt already. Without oil, all these nations really have to export are dates. And unlike Malaysia and Indonesia there are no large Chinese communities to do all the work and create the needed wealth. I picture the ME being in a State similar to Africa. Which is kind of interesting because Arabs treat their Indian workers literally like second class humans. Well what comes around goes around - wait till Arabs are migrating to work in prosperous Hindu India. Anyway, I'm interested in what strings will be attached to the needed food aid. No doubt Christian Missionaries will be mandatory. It'll be interesting to see the whole thing play out. Michael
I'm not so sure it's being felt right now. Oil is at a record high and exports are going up. For at least the next two decades their income is safe. Why? NO matter how much "diversification" of energy in the west, places like China and India are increasing their import of oil at a geometric pace. Also, these diversifications won't seriously begin to impact the west's consumption for another decade... but you are somewhat right, they are beginning to nibble away now, I just don't think it's negatively offsetting their net exports of oil against the rise in consumption in other places. Interesting that you mention Malaysia and Indonesia. They are, generally, more moderate in their Islamic views and are more willing to adapt and adopt western advances as needed. They are growing tigers and though Malaysia has a significant Chinese population that contributes to their society, one need only look at the "self made" billionairs coming from those nation to see that it's the natives as much as the imports (Indians & Chinese) who are contributing just as significantly. Again, I think there is a more balanced (dare I say, "rational") approach to Islam there. Not saying that Malaysia isn't still under the strong influences of the Sharia, it's just that in Malaysia, Islam hasn't encroached on the significant individualism, willingness to adapt, and industrious nature of its citizens to short sheet their economic growth. Right. The only reason why the ME has the G7's attention right now is Oil... and with those wells [eventually] running dry and western energy diversification, it won't be long until Bono is championing the cause of starving Middle Easterners and their plight for sustenance. I've got my doubts. Though missionaries are a big deal and, to be certain, western demands will probably pry some more freedoms out of Middle Eastern regimes, I highly doubt you'll see mass conversions. One can proselytize in places like Turkey, Iraq and Indonesia without much harassment, and you don't see them flocking away from Islam there. Islam is almost genetic to those cultures. No matter how many Christian missionaries go there, I doubt you'll see more than a shift of a percent or more in religious adherence. What I do believe, is that with desperation will come revolution and more strife. People become more xenophobic when desperate... not more open, and with the already anti-western attitudes of Middle Easterners, I doubt you'll see any serious embrace of other religions. ~String
You are probably right but I will still be interested in seeing how things play out. As for the Chinese economic impact: Wiki; The Malaysian Chinese have traditionally dominated the Malaysian economy, but with the advent of affirmative action policies by the Malaysian government to protect the interests of ethnic Malays, their share has eroded somewhat. On most counts, however, they still make up the majority of the middle and upper income classes of Malaysia. NOTE also that Malaysia's recipe for success is this "Copy Singapore". A Nation in Waiting : Indonesia's Search for Stability Wiki: Chinese Indonesians are an influential ethnic minority comprising less than 2% of the population. Much of the country's privately-owned commerce and wealth is Chinese-controlled. Every Chinese from Indonesia I talk to seem to think Indonesians do a little too much praying to Allah a little too little working. Maybe that's a stereotype but I hear it often. Chinese simply work harder, are better organized and make or maintain much better international connections. They are also more apt to try and start their own businesses. Anyway, we will see how it all plays out. Regardless - it will be interesting. Michael
