The Home of Islam, of course

http://info.pravdaoislamu.cz/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/hway-2-mecca-muslims-only.jpg


Saudi Arabia

The Church in Saudi Arabia is living under the most difficult circumstances. The regime has declared the entire Arabian peninsula 'Haram,' forbidden to all other religions, and it is enforcing this prohibition strictly.

Freedom of religion does not exist. The Government prohibits the practice of other religions, be it in Public or in Private.
Saudi law states that no churches may be built north of Yemen and south of Jordan.

It is impossible for foreigners to visit Saudi Arabia as tourists. One can only enter the kingdom on business visa (i.e. on the invitation of a company already active in the country), or as a Muslim pilgrim.
The survey of problems and needs of the Church in Saudi Arabia is completely determined by the total prohibition of any religion but Islam.
[..]
1. Heavy surveillance of Saudi society by the Mutawwa'in and the Ministry of the Interior

The Saudi Religious Police (Mutawwa'in) is practically omnipresent in Saudi Arabia. Their power is almost limitless. The Mutawwa'in have special prisons where they torture their victims. Their behaviour is often ruthless. Their aim is to ascertain that all citizens (and expatriates) adhere to strict Islamic legislation.
[...]
On daily life
The Mutawwa'in control every aspect of daily life. They patrol the streets in their cars, check in shops if women are dressed according to Islamic dress codes, see that all shops are closed during prayer times, watch that no signs of other religions are visible, etc
[...]
Systematic Discrimination based on Sex and Religion are Built into Saudi law.
By religious law and social custom, women have the right to own property and are entitled to financial support from their husbands or male relatives. However, women have few political and social rights and are not treated as equal members of society.
There are no active women's rights groups, nor would one be tolerated by the Government. Women, including foreigners, may not legally drive motor vehicles or ride bicycles and are restricted in their use of public facilities when men are present. Women must enter city buses by separate rear entrances and sit in specially designated sections. Women risk arrest by the Mutawwa'in for riding in a vehicle driven by a male who is not an employee or a close male relative. Women are not admitted to a hospital for medical treatment without the consent of their male relative(s). By law and custom, women may not undertake domestic and foreign travel alone.
[...]
On media and telecommunications

The law severely limits freedom of Speech and Press. The authorities do not countenance criticism of Islam, the ruling family, of the government. Persons whose criticism align with an organised political opposition are subject to arrest and detention until they confess their crime or sign a statement promising not to resume such criticisms, which is tantamount to a confession.."

Political situation

Saudi Arabia is a monarchy without elected representative institutions or political parties. It is ruled by King Fahd bin Abd Al-Aziz Al Saud, a son of King Abd Al-Aziz Al Saud, who unified the country in the early 20th century. The King and the Crown Prince are chosen from among the male descendants of King Abd Al-Aziz. There is no written constitution.
There is no concept of the separation of state and religion. The Government enforces adherence to the precepts of a rigorously conservative form of Islam - a position that enjoys near-consensus support among Saudi citizens...."

Human rights

There is an almost total Lack of freedoms in Saudi Arabia. The government commits or tolerates serious abuses. Aspects of the law Prohibit or Restrict freedoms of Speech, Press, Assembly, and Association.
There is systematic Discrimination against Women, and strict limitations, and even Suppression, of the rights of Workers and of Ethnic and Religious minorities. Ministry of Interior officers allegedly abused prisoners and facilitated incommunicado detention in contradiction of Saudi law, but with the acquiescence of the Government.

Arbitrary arrest and prolonged detention are problems, as well as Violence against women. There is no mechanism for citizens to change their government. Since the death of King Abd Al-Aziz, the King and Crown Prince have been chosen from among his sons, who themselves have had preponderant influence in the choice. A 1992 royal decree reserves for the King exclusive power to name the Crown Prince.
The government bases its legitimacy on governance according to Islamic law. The government disagrees with internationally accepted definitions of human rights and views Islamic law as the only necessary guide to protect human rights.

Among the limitation of freedoms is the fact that you cannot even decide for yourself which radio or television station you would like to watch: it is forbidden to have a dish antenna in Saudi Arabia, but many possess a dish antenna anyway. Amnesty International, which is not particularly popular in Saudi Arabia, is constantly accusing the country of violating human rights. In 1993 80 people were killed by receiving the death penalty. There was no change in the practice in 1994, when 'only' 59 people were executed. The 1995 total was considerably higher than that (191). There were twice as many Non-Saudis Executed as Saudis.

The juridical system is based upon the Shariah law, and one could call it Medieval. Should you be arrested in Saudi Arabia, you'd better forget about human rights.
The Government does Not permit visits by International human rights groups or independent monitoring groups, nor has it signed major international human rights treaties and conventions. The Government Disagrees with internationally accepted definitions of human rights and views Islamic law as the only necessary guide to protect human rights. Citations of Saudi human rights abuses by international monitors or foreign governments are routinely ignored or condemned by the Government as assaults on Islam..."

http://www.opendoors.org/content/saudipro.htm
http://www.opendoors.org/content/saudipro2.htm

Terrible people, of course non-Muslims want to go to a large mosque.

Israel should immediately denounce Saudi Arabia. NOW.

And lose the funding and donations that come from the family ? Highly unlikely.

Terrible people, of course non-Muslims want to go to a large mosque.

Israel should immediately denounce Saudi Arabia. NOW.
I note in another string, you spent 5 years in Saudi Arabia - and your handle starts with 'S.A.'
Just a coincidence probably, but interesting.
We do know you weren't there for the beaches and Night life.

I can say we have two alternatives with Saudi Arabia:

1- To export democracy to them just as we did to Iraq and make it a prosperous country exactly same as Iraq..

or

2- We can start a propaganda campaign against them and argue that their water distillation facilities are in fact covert laboratories for making nuclear weapons. Then we can force the rest of the world to , however unwillingly, support us impose unbearable sanctions on them and kill hundreds of thousands of those religious bastards from hunger and illnesses, again like we did in Iraq :)

I can say we have two alternatives with Saudi Arabia:

1- To export democracy to them just as we did to Iraq and make it a prosperous country exactly same as Iraq..

or

2- We can start a propaganda campaign against them and argue that their water distillation facilities are in fact covert laboratories for making nuclear weapons. Then we can force the rest of the world to , however unwillingly, support us impose unbearable sanctions on them and kill hundreds of thousands of those religious bastards from hunger and illnesses, again like we did in Iraq :)

All too costly, carpet bombing is the way of the future.

The point is not "what should be done". The point is to show you what they are. Many retards call Israel's system of government "Apartheid" when it is anything but. The same people are quick to call on all kind of things that need to be done about it.

Well, here is your hypocricy: a real Apartheid system and none want want to say a single negative word about it. Double standards.

You'll be happy to know that you are now going better than Saudi Arabia.

through its army, the government of Israel practises a brutal form of Apartheid in the territory it occupies. Its army has turned every Palestinian village and town into a fenced-in, or blocked-in, detention camp. All this is done in order to keep an eye on the population's movements and to make its life difficult. Israel even imposes a total curfew whenever the settlers, who have illegally usurped the Palestinians' land, celebrate their holidays or conduct their parades.

If that were not enough, the generals commanding the region frequently issue further orders, regulations, instructions and rules (let us not forget: they are the lords of the land). By now they have requisitioned further lands for the purpose of constructing "Jewish only" roads. Wonderful roads, wide roads, well-paved roads, brightly lit at night--all that on stolen land. When a Palestinian drives on such a road, his vehicle is confiscated and he is sent on his way.

On one occasion I witnessed such an encounter between a driver and a soldier who was taking down the details before confiscating the vehicle and sending its owner away. "Why?" I asked the soldier. "It's an order--this is a Jews-only road", he replied. I inquired as to where was the sign indicating this fact and instructing [other] drivers not to use it. His answer was nothing short of amazing. "It is his responsibility to know it, and besides, what do you want us to do, put up a sign here and let some antisemitic reporter or journalist take a photo so he that can show the world that Apartheid exists here?"

Indeed Apartheid does exist here. And our army is not "the most moral army in the world" as we are told by its commanders. Sufficient to mention that every town and every village has turned into a detention centre and that every entry and every exit has been closed, cutting it off from arterial traffic. If it were not enough that Palestinians are not allowed to travel on the roads paved 'for Jews only', on their land, the current GOC found it necessary to land an additional blow on the natives in their own land with an "ingenious proposal".

Humanitarian activists cannot transport Palestinians either.

Major-General Naveh, renowned for his superior patriotism, has issued a new order. Coming into affect on 19 January, it prohibits the conveyance of Palestinians without a permit. The order determines that Israelis are not allowed to transport Palestinians in an Israeli vehicle (one registered in Israel regardless of what kind of numberplate it carries) unless they have received explicit permission to do so. The permit relates to both the driver and the Palestinian passenger. Of course none of this applies to those whose labour serves the settlers. They and their employers will naturally receive the required permits so they can continue to serve the lords of the land, the settlers.



http://www.counterpunch.org/aloni01082007.html

You'll be happy to know that you are now going better than Saudi Arabia.



http://www.counterpunch.org/aloni01082007.html
hello SAM

How dare you post such anti semitic propaganda from that anti semitic website counterpunch!!!!! You should know better, you bad girl you :spank:

~~~~~~~
Most disappointedly
zak

The point is not "what should be done". The point is to show you what they are. Many retards call Israel's system of government "Apartheid" when it is anything but. The same people are quick to call on all kind of things that need to be done about it.

Well, here is your hypocricy: a real Apartheid system and none want want to say a single negative word about it. Double standards.

EXactly!

No UN Sanctions. Not a peep.

No Boycott of Saudi Academics.

For what is a GROTESQUELY Apartheid Society- blowing away even #2 .. IRAN.

LOL

EXactly!



No Boycott of Saudi Academics.



LOL

Yeah AA

tell me why or what Sadddam had to do with the war on terror..

Of course the US shuld be gnnning for the KSA, I have been banging on about this for ages.

But of course they wont cos the war on terror has nothing to do with terror.... It aint my fault the US does jack shit wiht the KSA, but takes out a moderate country like Iraq and turns it into a hot bed of shit!!

~~~~~~~~~~

Cheers
zak

EXactly!



No Boycott of Saudi Academics.



LOL

eeeeerrr smethign just went weird

Yeah AA

tell me why or what Sadddam had to do with the war on terror..

Huh?

And this has what to do with "who has Apartheid"?


Of course the US shuld be gnnning for the KSA, I have been banging on about this for ages.

But of course they wont cos the war on terror has nothing to do with terror.... It aint my fault the US does jack shit wiht the KSA, but takes out a moderate country like Iraq and turns it into a hot bed of shit!!

~~~~~~~~~~

Cheers
zak Your position on the Invasion of S.A. is noted for future discussion

You'll be happy to know that you are now going better than Saudi Arabia.



http://www.counterpunch.org/aloni01082007.html

S.A.M.! it is really disappointing that you call the human-loving peaceful regime of Israel an apartheid one just because they have taken other's lands by force, misused the holocaust to exploit the European and American embarrassment as a direct tool for enticing unquestioning support for their anti-palestinian hostilities, and constantly kill the palestinians indiscriminately. Shame on you!
LOL

S.A.M.! it is really disappointing that you call the human-loving peaceful regime of Israel an apartheid one just because they have taken other's lands by force, misused the holocaust to exploit the European and American embarrassment as a direct tool for enticing unquestioning support for their anti-palestinian hostilities, and constantly kill the palestinians indiscriminately. Shame on you!
LOL

If only all the Bizarre things you said in your post were true than S.A.M. would indeed be validated.

Alas... they aren't.
I especially liked the incredible "How they [Jews] Misused the Holocaust" though! A real classic.

I haven't even seen Any case for "apartheid Israel", just empty slander, while I started this string with an Air-tight one against Saudi Arabia.

I was reading in New Scientist oil production peaked in 2006. I was also reading that Egypt exports in a year what South Korea exports in a 3 days. The entire Arab world combined has the amount of exports equal to Thailand. The amount of money the entire Arab ME spends on patents (a measure of a country's ability to adapt modern sophisticated products into their economy) is already very small and is actually shrinking smaller by the year.

Because of the population explosion, the people in the ME need their economy's to grow at a minimum of 12% - just to give everyone an opportunity at employment - can they do it?

This time there are no easy pickings like the Persians, Indians, Egyptians, Romans, Spanish and Byzantine to steal wealth from. The real question is are the Christian, Hindu and Buddhist nations of the World going to be happy to send KSA et.al. food aid in 20 years?

Oil peaked in 2006 - it's literally all downhill from here. What sort of concessions will the Americans demand in return for food aid to the Muslim ME?



I predict Churches will be built and Muslims converting by the mouthfuls by the end of 3 decades (it usually takes a good decade of starvation to get in the right frame of mind).

Oil peaked in 2006 - it's literally all downhill from here. What sort of concessions will the Americans demand in return for food aid to the Muslim ME?

I predict Churches will be built and Muslims converting by the mouthfuls by the end of 3 decades (it usually takes a good decade of starvation to get in the right frame of mind).

An interesting take.

This is something that I have been telling people for a couple years now. The ME needs to start investing SERIOUSLY in upgrading its economy. The sorry thing is, that the virtual disenfranchisement of half the population is really working against the entire region. The only four Middle Eastern nations that have (or had) been on the right track are Turkey, Israel, UAE and [erstwhile] Iraq. Iraq is now in shambles and will be a decade from anything even remotely stable. Israel gets plenty of western corporate investments and doesn't seem to have any trouble growing and diversifying their economies, and Turkey with its stable economy and "westernizing" approach, is growing rapidly and (relative to its neighbors) and in a stable fashion, and is set to be the regional great power for the next 50 years-- a fact that has many of its neighbors fearing a resurgent Ottoman Empire and/or greater hydraulic despotism from the north.

The UAE has gotten practically every cent of its diversification investments from the various Emirs and all of that money has been dumped into one Emirate: Dubai. While the rest of the nation languishes in it's oil dependence with little industrialization. Though this diversification has been wise, it may not be enough to carry the UAE into the next century. What happens when the money runs out, the citizens start getting hungry and they can peak just over the brick walls and see rich foreigners eating lots of food and living in luxury?

Syria & Pakistan are the only two Muslim nations that have been focusing on industrializing with all due pace, but pressure on the corporations of western nations NOT to invest in [perceived] terror supporting / unstable Middle Eastern regimes has stymied any investment dollars from the G7.

With the current population growth of Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran and Pakistan, there will be FEWER jobs for their citizens than there are now, and when the oil runs out, how much worse will their lives be? After that time, all the horrible meddling form the west will be a wonderful memory compared to the total disinterest form rich industrialized nations who no longer have any reason to even know what's going on in the ME, let alone, trouble themselves with helping them out. Just look at Africa-- that, sadly, is where the ME is heading unless they start investing more in infrastructure and industrial diversification-- because when the oil runs out, so will the concern for their well being.

Unfortunately, such investments mean a degree of "openness" that few in the ME have shown themselves capable of.

~String

Actually, things are going to start turning for the worse before the oil runs out, more like as soon as the West and East begin to diversify their energy sources away from oil. The squeeze is probably being felt already.

Without oil, all these nations really have to export are dates. And unlike Malaysia and Indonesia there are no large Chinese communities to do all the work and create the needed wealth. I picture the ME being in a State similar to Africa. Which is kind of interesting because Arabs treat their Indian workers literally like second class humans. Well what comes around goes around - wait till Arabs are migrating to work in prosperous Hindu India.

Anyway, I'm interested in what strings will be attached to the needed food aid. No doubt Christian Missionaries will be mandatory. It'll be interesting to see the whole thing play out.

Michael

Actually, things are going to start turning for the worse before the oil runs out, more like as soon as the West and East begin to diversify their energy sources away from oil. The squeeze is probably being felt already.

I'm not so sure it's being felt right now. Oil is at a record high and exports are going up. For at least the next two decades their income is safe. Why? NO matter how much "diversification" of energy in the west, places like China and India are increasing their import of oil at a geometric pace. Also, these diversifications won't seriously begin to impact the west's consumption for another decade... but you are somewhat right, they are beginning to nibble away now, I just don't think it's negatively offsetting their net exports of oil against the rise in consumption in other places.

Without And unlike Malaysia and Indonesia there are no large Chinese communities to do all the work and create the needed wealth.

Interesting that you mention Malaysia and Indonesia. They are, generally, more moderate in their Islamic views and are more willing to adapt and adopt western advances as needed. They are growing tigers and though Malaysia has a significant Chinese population that contributes to their society, one need only look at the "self made" billionairs coming from those nation to see that it's the natives as much as the imports (Indians & Chinese) who are contributing just as significantly.

Again, I think there is a more balanced (dare I say, "rational") approach to Islam there. Not saying that Malaysia isn't still under the strong influences of the Sharia, it's just that in Malaysia, Islam hasn't encroached on the significant individualism, willingness to adapt, and industrious nature of its citizens to short sheet their economic growth.

I picture the ME being in a State similar to Africa. Which is kind of interesting because Arabs treat their Indian workers literally like second class humans. Well what comes around goes around - wait till Arabs are migrating to work in prosperous Hindu India.

Right. The only reason why the ME has the G7's attention right now is Oil... and with those wells [eventually] running dry and western energy diversification, it won't be long until Bono is championing the cause of starving Middle Easterners and their plight for sustenance.

No doubt Christian Missionaries will be mandatory. It'll be interesting to see the whole thing play out.

I've got my doubts. Though missionaries are a big deal and, to be certain, western demands will probably pry some more freedoms out of Middle Eastern regimes, I highly doubt you'll see mass conversions. One can proselytize in places like Turkey, Iraq and Indonesia without much harassment, and you don't see them flocking away from Islam there.

Islam is almost genetic to those cultures. No matter how many Christian missionaries go there, I doubt you'll see more than a shift of a percent or more in religious adherence.

What I do believe, is that with desperation will come revolution and more strife. People become more xenophobic when desperate... not more open, and with the already anti-western attitudes of Middle Easterners, I doubt you'll see any serious embrace of other religions.

~String

Though missionaries are a big deal and, to be certain, western demands will probably pry some more freedoms out of Middle Eastern regimes, I highly doubt you'll see mass conversions. One can proselytize in places like Turkey, Iraq and Indonesia without much harassment, and you don't see them flocking away from Islam there.

Islam is almost genetic to those cultures. No matter how many Christian missionaries go there, I doubt you'll see more than a shift of a percent or more in religious adherence.

What I do believe, is that with desperation will come revolution and more strife. People become more xenophobic when desperate... not more open, and with the already anti-western attitudes of Middle Easterners, I doubt you'll see any serious embrace of other religions.

~StringYou are probably right but I will still be interested in seeing how things play out.


As for the Chinese economic impact:
Wiki;
The Malaysian Chinese have traditionally dominated the Malaysian economy, but with the advent of affirmative action policies by the Malaysian government to protect the interests of ethnic Malays, their share has eroded somewhat. On most counts, however, they still make up the majority of the middle and upper income classes of Malaysia.

NOTE also that Malaysia's recipe for success is this "Copy Singapore".

A Nation in Waiting : Indonesia's Search for Stability (http://www.amazon.com/Nation-Waiting-Indonesias-Search-Stability/dp/0813336503)
Wiki:
Chinese Indonesians are an influential ethnic minority comprising less than 2% of the population. Much of the country's privately-owned commerce and wealth is Chinese-controlled.


Every Chinese from Indonesia I talk to seem to think Indonesians do a little too much praying to Allah a little too little working. Maybe that's a stereotype but I hear it often. Chinese simply work harder, are better organized and make or maintain much better international connections. They are also more apt to try and start their own businesses.


Anyway, we will see how it all plays out. Regardless - it will be interesting.

Michael

While I'm atheist I still think Christianity, when given an opportunity, is a far superior meme when compared with Islam. Look how quickly Sunni Islam was replaced with Shia Islam in Iran. What a decade? I am positive had the Baha'i not challenged their monetary base Iranians would probably be Baha'i now. Who would have though that the North Koreans would worship Kim Jung Il?!?

While I agree with your assertion I maintain that really anything is possible.

A better guess may be that in the worse of times there there will be some sort of reformer that is a bit like what happened with the Baha'i. Already you see a lot of this sort of thing in the ME anyway. There are a lot of beliefs. They must really carry a lot of copies of the God gene?

I'm not so sure it's being felt right now. Oil is at a record high and exports are going up. For at least the next two decades their income is safe. Why? NO matter how much "diversification" of energy in the west, places like China and India are increasing their import of oil at a geometric pace. Also, these diversifications won't seriously begin to impact the west's consumption for another decade... but you are somewhat right, they are beginning to nibble away now, I just don't think it's negatively offsetting their net exports of oil against the rise in consumption in other places.
Excellent points/discussion by both you and Michael.

Oil prices and, ergo Total revenue, are going up at a much faster pace than depletion and faster than Arab population growth.

In my mind that has saved many of their perverse governments.
If oil was still at $35, the Arab world, especially Saudis, and non-arab Iran, and Vz, would be at a high simmer- maybe Boil.

The 1000 members/direct oil recipients of the Saudi Royal family do grow at a fast pace though- with many wives and children and Saudi GDP per person Halved from 1990 -2005.

Under Ahmadinejad in Iran, the Economy has, Remarkably, even suffered during this sharp price rise.
Iran still imports half it's Gasoline and despite sitting on stupendous reserves has had Gas Rationing!
It seems Nukes are more important than another Refinery.

It's also masking the Gross mismanagement of Hugo Chavez. Venezuelan production has dropped due to his bungling of the state oil co, PDVSA, and his screwing of Western foreign oil companies, while trying to increase patronage in his Cuba-with-oil.
He even had to buy Russian crude last year because he couldn't cover his sale agreements.

Domestically...
The Oil price has quadrupled under this Administration alone.
Who says we hasn't had a 'successful' Presidency? We elected two Oilmen and the price goes up 25% a year for 7. :^)



Right. The only reason why the ME has the G7's attention right now is Oil... and with those wells [eventually] running dry and western energy diversification, it won't be long until Bono is championing the cause of starving Middle Easterners and their plight for sustenance.
The Arab world is 300,000,000, roughly the same size and population of the USA and EU, and yet it produces not a single thing anyone can name except that commodity Saudis pay foreign workers to pump.

It is not a pretty picture.
Again, only being saved by this decade's meteoric price rise. And some of that money has gone to teach Wahabism. The Saudis are really just Taliban with Oil. They are just as pious, and have religous police going around looking for any infractions, and have Shariah law.
.

The Arab world is 300,000,000, roughly the same size and population of the USA and EU, and yet it produces not a single thing anyone can name except that commodity Saudis pay foreign workers to pump..They do produce nice palm dates :)

http://www.dateland.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/KhadrawyDatesHeader.gif

Every Chinese from Indonesia I talk to seem to think Indonesians do a little too much praying to Allah a little too little working.

LOL!

~String

Michael and Superstring99, great posts. It never even occured to me!

Just look at Africa-- that, sadly, is where the ME is heading unless they start investing more in infrastructure and industrial diversification-- because when the oil runs out, so will the concern for their well being.

Unfortunately, such investments mean a degree of "openness" that few in the ME have shown themselves capable of.
that just nailed it on the head

that's how long it will take to win the "war on terror". when the oil runs out and the competing superpowers have no reason to arm the savages any longer. at least Africa has diamonds. the ME only has sand.

but they will survive. look at how people live in the Pakistani tribal areas? they've been living in 3rd-world conditions for millenia and they're doing just fine.

but they will survive. look at how people live in the Pakistani tribal areas? they've been living in 3rd-world conditions for millenia and they're doing just fine.

Yes, Rumatc Fever, infectious parasitic diseases, Malaria, Tuberculosis, Typhoid, Cholera, intestinal infections, Pakistan’s maternal mortality rate is the highest in South Asia and great than all other Muslim countries.

Yes, they are doing so well in the tribal areas of Pakistan, or any of the other tribal areas of the world.

Yes, Rumatc Fever, infectious parasitic diseases, Malaria, Tuberculosis, Typhoid, Cholera, intestinal infections, Pakistan’s maternal mortality rate is the highest in South Asia and great than all other Muslim countries.

Yes, they are doing so well in the tribal areas of Pakistan, or any of the other tribal areas of the world.

by our standards it is deplorable. but they've been doing it for millenia and they continue living like this now. they aren't complaining.

by our standards it is deplorable. but they've been doing it for millenia and they continue living like this now. they aren't complaining.


:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

what?
they are fine living the way they are. any attempt to change their customs (which has been attempted in the last few centuries) has been met with violent opposition.

do they deserve better? sure. do they want anything different? no. and they've been surviving as is for the past millenia. i say leave them alone. who cares what they live like?

at least Africa has diamonds. the ME only has sand.and really nice palm dates :)

what?
they are fine living the way they are. any attempt to change their customs (which has been attempted in the last few centuries) has been met with violent opposition.

do they deserve better? sure. do they want anything different? no. and they've been surviving as is for the past millenia. i say leave them alone. who cares what they live like?Well the capitol of Afghanistan used to be semi-modern.

Amanullah enjoyed quite a bit of early popularity within Afghanistan and he used his influence to modernize the country. Amanullah created new cosmopolitan schools for both boys and girls in the region and overturned centuries-old traditions such a strict dress codes for women. He increased trade with Europe and Asia. He also advanced a modernist constitution that incorporated equal rights and individual freedoms with the guidance of his father-in-law and Foreign Minister Mahmud Tarzi. His wife, Queen Soraya Tarzi played a huge role in regards to his policy towards women. Unfortunately, this rapid modernization created a backlash and a reactionary uprising known as the Khost rebellion was suppressed in 1924.

But the sad truth is the male chauvinistic portions of Islam are to entrenched with the simple mind set of the tribal people that make up most of Afghanistan. They treat women as second class humans. Just open the religous literature and you'll find more than enough life-examples set by Mohammad to justify continued practice of polygamy, the killing of apostates etc.. etc... and the way I see it is if their own beloved king couldn't modernize them then there is no way we're going to do it. Not without spending much more blood and money - neither of which gives us a return on our investment.

Leave Afghanistan to Russia, China and India.

Actually, leave the whole of the ME to Russia, China and India. We can trade date palms for water with which tribal religous chief is their leader and spend out efforts developing our own economies, working with China and India, Russia and Europe and investing in a good partnership and close relations with Central and South America.

Unfortunately, this rapid modernization created a backlash and a reactionary uprising...
Sounds the same as Iran circa late 70s.

sure there are some patriots that want better for their people. but they are rejected, as you said, by reactionary slackjaws who prefer to live in 7th century conditions (just like the Prophet did!)

for better or worse there are more reactionary slackjaws than enlightened people out there in those areas. and any enlightened soul gets stabbed or beheaded or lynched by a mob. leave the savages be. who gives a fuck about them and their savage ways anyway. if they're so resistant to the West and its ways of longer life expectancy, i say fuck them.

Under Ahmadinejad in Iran, the Economy has, Remarkably, even suffered during this sharp price rise.
Iran still imports half it's Gasoline and despite sitting on stupendous reserves has had Gas Rationing!

[...]

It's also masking the Gross mismanagement of Hugo Chavez. Venezuelan production has dropped due to his bungling of the state oil co, PDVSA, and his screwing of Western foreign oil companies, while trying to increase patronage in his Cuba-with-oil.
He even had to buy Russian crude last year because he couldn't cover his sale agreements.

Indeed, this is common amongst nationalized oil sectors. When you're running the oil industry as a business, you make sure to invest enough of the profits back into the infrastructure to keep things going in the future. On the other hand, when the oil sector is a piggy-bank for populist politicians, there are inevitably other more pressing projects that must be funded, and infrastructure upgrades are too often left to languish.

Another reason Iran requires gas rationing is that they heavily subsidize the price of gas, and so demand is artificially inflated to absurd levels. How it works out to be more politically tenable to ration rather than just cut subsidies is beyond me, though...

Indeed, this is common amongst nationalized oil sectors. When you're running the oil industry as a business, you make sure to invest enough of the profits back into the infrastructure to keep things going in the future. On the other hand, when the oil sector is a piggy-bank for populist politicians, there are inevitably other more pressing projects that must be funded, and infrastructure upgrades are too often left to languish.

Another reason Iran requires gas rationing is that they heavily subsidize the price of gas, and so demand is artificially inflated to absurd levels. How it works out to be more politically tenable to ration rather than just cut subsidies is beyond me, though...
"Political tenability" is at issue here.
Unfortunatley we are helping AhmadinJihad a bit by letting him wave the Nationalism flag even though many people feel he is a Failure as a leader in many repsects.

I agree on subsidization being one of the shortage causes, but it's still astonishing.
Like Newfoundland having to import Ice.. or Water because they can't melt it.
Plenty of Money for the well spread out, deeply dug in, Nukes though.