[Verse One: 2Pac]
I see mothers in black cryin, brothers in packs dyin
Plus everybody's high, too doped up to ask why
Watchin our own downfall, witness the end
It's like we don't believe in God cause we livin in sin
I asked my homie on the block why he strapped, he laughed
Pointed his pistol as the cop car passed and blast
It's just another murder, nobody mourns no more
My tear drops gettin bigger but can't figure what I'm cryin for
Is it the miniature caskets, little babies
Victims of a stray, from drug dealers gone crazy
Maybe it's just the drugs, visions of how the block was
Crack came and it was strange how it rocked us
Perhaps the underlyin fact stay high explain genocide
It's when we ride on our own kind
What is it we all fear, reflections in the mirror
We can't escape fate, the end is gettin nearer

[Verse Two: 2Pac]
Can't close my eyes cause all I see is terror
I hate the man in the mirror
Cause his reflection makes the pain turn realer
Times of Armageddeon, murder in mass amounts
In this society where only gettin the cash counts
I started out as a beginner
Entered the criminal lifestyle became a sinner
I make my money and vacate, evade prison
Went from the chosen one to outcast, unforgiven
And all the Hennessy and weed can't hide, the pain I feel inside
You know, it's like I'm livin just to die
I fall on my knees and beg for mercy, not knowin if I'm worthy
Livin life thinkin no man can hurt me
So I'm askin -- before I lay me down to sleep
Before you judge me, look at all the shit you did to me, my
misery
I rose up from the slums, made it out the flames
In my search for fame will I change? I'm askin

[Verse Three: Kadafi]
Faith in Allah, believe in me and this plastic
Cause so far I done witnessed to many dead niggaz in caskets
With they chest plates stretched like elastic
And what's worse I'm on front line, holdin down camp, still
mashin
Heard my cousin, one of the old heads from the block
Just came home October of '95 back in Yardsville stuck
with a three to five, if he don't act up, now he realize
If you don't stay wise, then in this game you f**ked
Talk to my baby girl, give me the word on what she heard
One of the grimmies is snitchin, Diamond a stool pigeon I talked
to him
He said he didn't, my man said he did, in fact he's sure
Cause he just came home off of bail

[Outro: spoken word]
Who do you believe in?
Is it Buddah, Jehovah, or Jah? Or Allah?
Is it Jesus? Is it God? Or is just yourself?
Definately not to be imposed, being a demon
Because this is the joy of believing!
Men, to believe in yourselves
But for sure, the higher power
Resides only to ride in the heart of the true
From the soul, of the man; for truth never has an alibi
In the poetry, or in it's realm
That's what pulls all words together
Just to understand, that every man, is his OWN man
And only man can satisfy the man
Only the soul of the man, the feelings of the man
The for realness of the man
You can't shake the man when you feel the man you know the man
And you gotta call yourself because you are that man


=-----

So who do you believe in?

So who do you believe in?I try not to have any "beliefs" at all.

I try not to have any "beliefs" at all.

You must believe in something. I mean when you're hitting a womens pussy don't you think you're the best don't you believe you're the only one who can fuck her like this? :confused:

You must believe in something. I mean when you're hitting a womens pussy don't you think you're the best don't you believe you're the only one who can fuck her like this? :confused:

man thats ridiculous. only idiots think like that.
we could all probably fuck your woman stupid if given the opportunity.
does she like tattoos?

You must believe in something. I mean when you're hitting a womens pussy don't you think you're the best don't you believe you're the only one who can fuck her like this? :confused:I don't need to "believe" when I have evidence. :D

I certainly "believe" things in as much as it is a probability based on weight of evidence evidence - such as "I believe I will cross the road safely" - i.e. I have sufficient evidence of prior road-crossings to be able to make that conclusion.

I try not to "believe" things where there is no evidence at all - i.e. in God.

man thats ridiculous. only idiots think like that.
we could all probably fuck your woman stupid if given the opportunity.
does she like tattoos?

Yeah sure, thats why, most of your women are marrying Muslims men? :rolleyes: lets face it she don't want a 1/hlf inch pink dick. ;)

I don't need to "believe" when I have evidence. :D

I certainly "believe" things in as much as it is a probability based on weight of evidence evidence - such as "I believe I will cross the road safely" - i.e. I have sufficient evidence of prior road-crossings to be able to make that conclusion.

I try not to "believe" things where there is no evidence at all - i.e. in God.

So you do believe in things. There is sufficient evidence to believe in a god.

I don't believe in jack shit! I don't believe in gods I don't believe in devils I don't believe the word of no man. The only man I can rely on is me, but even I can be bad for me sometimes. It's a wonder sometimes how I keep from going under.

Belief isn't the question. Once you believe something, you stop thinking. I'm pretty sick of weak minding people trying to justify their fear of the void by being prideful about an idea someone sold them. And to top it all off, boasting of sexual prowess like some alpha baboon, fuck that.

Yeah sure, thats why, most of your women are marrying Muslims men?

Got any evidence to support that claim? Can't say I have personally ever met an English woman that has married a muslim. Of course maybe that's just because muslim women are probably chained up at home - unallowed to talk to or mingle with other men or even show their faces.

Still, evidence would help.

lets face it she don't want a 1/hlf inch pink dick

Do you spend a lot of time looking at white men's dicks? If not, how can you make such a claim?

There is sufficient evidence to believe in a god

Such as?

Got any evidence to support that claim? Can't say I have personally ever met an English woman that has married a muslim. Of course maybe that's just because muslim women are probably chained up at home - unallowed to talk to or mingle with other men or even show their faces.

Still, evidence would help.



Do you spend a lot of time looking at white men's dicks? If not, how can you make such a claim?



Such as?

But still seriously I bet mine is bigger then yours. I can bet you £50 pounds on that.

And the evidence of god is all around us look around you for a minute.

Belief isn't the question. Once you believe something, you stop thinking. I'm pretty sick of weak minding people trying to justify their fear of the void by being prideful about an idea someone sold them. And to top it all off, boasting of sexual prowess like some alpha baboon, fuck that.

That is not true. I believe in a god I still think about it I think of god all the time, my god challenges me to think. He tells me to seek knowledge. Also about sexual prowess is a good thing. I mean, why don't you want to talk about it? have a small one do you? mine is bigger then yours also I bet

I admit, your ego is quite inflated.

Yeah sure, thats why, most of your women are marrying Muslims men? :rolleyes: lets face it she don't want a 1/hlf inch pink dick. ;)

youre kidding right?
at least a chick banging a white dude can be pretty sure he wont blow himself up in the name of allah halfway through.

But still seriously I bet mine is bigger then yours. I can bet you £50 pounds on that.

Admittedly I am beyond the age or past the insecurity of having to make bets over the size of my willy.

While there is no doubt you're the biggest dick on this forum, your oversized mouth is typical of a ten year old. I have learnt through years of experience that there's no need for rulers and pre-pubescent bravado.. just good old fashioned fun. Your bet is meaningless - although if it need serve a greater purpose, I am happy to oblige your bet.

All I do know is that "blow me", has a completely different meaning for you muslims as it does for us westerners.

Seriously kiddo, move beyond the "my willy is bigger than your willy" statements.

And the evidence of god is all around us look around you for a minute.

For the second time:

Such as?

So who do you believe in?

I don't. 'Belief' is an antiquated method of understanding reality... its perverbial thumb sucking from an older society that uses emotion to determine truth rather than evidence.

muslim,

And the evidence of god is all around us look around you for a minute. At what? I see no evidence for gods anywhere.

muslim,

So who do you believe in? I believe anything that can be tested that shows a specific result. The god concept does not qualify.

youre kidding right?
at least a chick banging a white dude can be pretty sure he wont blow himself up in the name of allah halfway through.
Ooooh! Damn!
Muslim, what just happened, in the american dialect, is "you just got yo' ass clown't, bitch." :p :D

That's sooo damn gay

myself,



peace.

http://www.evolvefish.com/contest/bs/dog pee.jpg

So who do you believe in?

You and me and nature makes three.

So that's a 2pac song? I've got and heard a lot of 2pac but don't recall hearing that song. What's the title?
Not to say I'm going along with the maturity, or lack thereof, of this thread so far.

I see I've been edited out of existence for blasphemy. Oh well.

So you do believe in things.
I believe in me,
and no its not the same as faith in god which is no doubt what you were trying to prove,that we all have faith in something therefore we cant be atheists right??
wrong!

There is sufficient evidence to believe in a god.
please do tell already....we are all anxious... :rolleyes:

So who do you believe in?

The true God, the creator of heaven and Earth; the God of Israel.
His inpired Words that He gave to men are in the King James version Bible.
The New Testament (and some parts of the Old Testament that still apply) are what the true God wants you to believe and follow.
Obey Him and find eternal happiness in heaven.
Disobey Him and find eternal misery in hell.

So that's a 2pac song? I've got and heard a lot of 2pac but don't recall hearing that song. What's the title?
Not to say I'm going along with the maturity, or lack thereof, of this thread so far.

I have some very good new tracks or if if you want them. This track is called "who do you believe in" from the album "Album: Chronic 2000: Still Smokin' (Suge Knight Represents) " If you like 2pac lyrics you'll love Immortal_Technique (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immortal_Technique) - his lyrics are much, much better if if you can understand intricate words.

So who do you believe in?
Nothing, except humanity.

I believe in me,
and no its not the same as faith in god which is no doubt what you were trying to prove,that we all have faith in something therefore we cant be atheists right??
wrong!

There is sufficient evidence to believe in a god.
please do tell already....we are all anxious... :rolleyes:

The laws of probability will tell you that this universe with all of its ordered complexity, could not have come into being by chance. To have that much order and complexity, the universe had to be designed by an intelligent creator. There is enough coded information in one human chromosome to
fill a small library of books. This had to be designed by an
intelligent creator.
The probability against that happening by chance is very
very high. It's like giving a chimpanzee a typewriter and letting him hit the keys at
random. The probability against his being able to type a small library full of books by hitting keys at random is so high that for all
practical purposes you can consider it impossible.
Because of this, there are some scientists and mathematicians who are forced to
believe in the existence of God by logic alone.
In order for a single cell to live, all of the parts of the cell must be assembled before life starts. This involves 60,000 proteins that are assembled in roughly 100 different combinations. The probability that these complex groupings of proteins could have happened just by chance is extremely small. It is about 1 chance in 10 to the 4,478,296 power. The probability of a living cell being assembled just by chance is so small, that you may as well consider it to be impossible. This means that the probability that the living cell is created by an intelligent creator, that designed it, is extremely large. The probability that God created the living cell is 10 to the 4,478,296 power to 1.
Example: 10 to the 6th power is one million, 10 to the 7th power is 10 million, 10 to the 8th power is 100 million, 10 to the 9th power is a billion; each time the power goes up by one, the number goes up by ten times as much. 10 to the 4,478,296 power, is a tremendously large number.
[The probability of this was calculated by Fred Hoyle, famous astronomer and mathematician.]

"Biochemical systems are exceedingly complex, so much so that the chance
of their being formed through random shufflings of simple organic
molecules is exceedingly minute, to a point indeed where it is
insensibly different from zero"
- Hoyle and Wickramasinghe, p.3

"No matter how large the environment one considers, lfe cannot have had
a random beginning. Troops of monkeys thundering away at random on
typewriters could not produce the works of Shakespeare, for the
practical reason that the whole observable universe is not large enough
to contain the necessary monkey hordes, the necessary typewriters, and
certainly the waste paper baskets required for the deposition of wrong
attempts. The same is true for living material"
Ibid., p.148

"The trouble is that there are about two thousand enzymes, and the
chance of obtaining them all in a random trial is one one part in
(10^20)^2000 = 10^40000, an outrageously small probability that could
not be faced even if the whole universe consisted of organic soup. If
one is not prejudiced either by social beliefs or by a scientific
training into the conviction that life originated on the Earth [by
chance or natural processes], this simple calculation wipes the idea
entirely out of court"
Ibid., p.24

"Any theory with a probability of being correct that is larger than one
part in 10^40000 must be judged superior to random shuffling. The
theory that life was assembled by an intelligence has, we believe, a
probability vastly higher than one part in 10^40000 of being the correct
explaination of the many curious facts discussed in previous chapters.
Indeed, such a theory is so obvious that one wonders why it is not
widely accepted as being self-evident. The reasons are psychological
rather than scientific."
Ibid., p.130

"All point mutations that have been studied on the molecular level turn
out to reduce the genetic information and not to increase it."
- Lee Spetner, "Not by Chance"(Brooklyn, New York: The Judaica
Press,Inc.) p.138

"It appears that the neo-darwinism hypothesis is insufficient to explain
some of the observations that were not available at the time the
paradigm took shape. ...One might ask why the neo-darwinian paradigm
does not weaken or disappear if it is at odds with critical factual
information. The reasons are not necessarily scientific ones but rather
may be rooted in human nature"
- Christian Schwabe "On the Validity of Molecular Evolution", Trends in
Biochemical Sciences, July 1986, p.282

"The really significant finding that comes to light from comparing the
proteins' amino acid sequences is that it is impossible to arrange them
in any sort of evolutionary series" - Ibid. p.289

"Thousands of different sequences, protein, and nucleic acid, have now
been compared in hundreds of different species but never has any
sequnces been found to be in any sense the lineal descendant or ancestor
of any other sequence." - Ibid. pp. 289-290

"Each class at a molecular level is unique, isolated and unlinked by
intermediates. Thus molecules, like fossils, have failed to provide the
elusive intermediates so long sought by evolutionary biology." - Ibid
p.290

"There is little doubt that if this molecular evidence had been
available one century ago it would have been seized upon with
devastating effect by the opponents of evolution theory like Agassiz and
Owen, and the idea of organic evolution might never have been
accepted." - Ibid pp.290-291

"In terms of their biochemistry, none of the species deemed
'intermediate', 'ancestral' or 'primitive' by generations of
evolutionary biologists, and alluded to as evidence of sequence in
nature, show any sign of their supposed intermediate status" - Ibid
p.293

Duane T. Gish, The Origin of Mammals : If this view of evolution is true, the fossil record should produce an enormous number of transitional forms. Natural history museums should be overflowing with undoubted intermediate forms. About 250,000 fossil species have been collected and classified?Applying evolution theory and the laws of probability, most of these 250,000 species should represent transitional forms.

Dr. Walt Brown, In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood, page 10: Fossil links are missing between numerous plants, between single-celled forms of life and invertebrates, between invertebrates and vertebrates, between fish and amphibians, between amphibians and reptiles, between reptiles and mammals, between reptiles and birds, between primates and other mammals, and between apes and other primates. The fossil record has been studied so thoroughly that it is safe to conclude that these gaps are real; they will never be filled. ---

Charles Darwin, The Origin of Species:
the number of intermediate varieties, which have formerly existed [must] truly be enormous. Why then is not every geological formation and every stratum full of such intermediate links? Geology assuredly does not reveal any such finely-graduated organic chain; and this, perhaps, is the most obvious and serious objection which can be urged against the theory [of evolution].


Dr. Niles Eldredge, paleontologist at the American Museum of Natural History, "Missing, Believed Nonexistent", Manchester Guardian, 26 November 1978:?
"The search for 'missing links' between various living creatures, like humans and apes, is probably fruitless?because they probably never existed as distinct transitional types...But no one has yet found any evidence of such transitional creatures?If it is not the fossil record which is incomplete then it must be the theory."
Lyall Watson, "The Water People", Science Digest, May 1982:
"Modern apes, for instance, seem to have sprung out of nowhere. They have no yesterday, no fossil record. And the true origin of modern humans?of upright, naked, toolmaking, big-brained beings?is, if we are to be honest with ourselves, an equally mysterious matter."

Dr. Collin Patterson, a paleontologist at the Natural History Museum in Britain, when asked why he hadn't included any illustrations of transitional forms in his book, Evolution, he replied in a letter: "I fully agree with your comments on the lack of direct illustration of evolutionary transitions in my book. If I knew of any, fossil or living, I would certainly have included them?I will lay it on the line?there is not one such fossil for which one could make a watertight argument."

"The absence of fossil evidence for intermediary stages between major transitions in the organic design, indeed our inability, even in our imagination, to construct functional intermediates in many cases, has been a persistent and nagging problem for gradualistic accounts of evolution." S.J.Gould. "Evolution Now: A Century After Darwin", 1982, p. 140

The probability against that happening by chance is very
very high. It's like giving a chimpanzee a typewriter and letting him hit the keys at
random. The probability against his being able to type a small library full of books by hitting keys at random is so high that for all
practical purposes you can consider it impossible.

What if there were billions upon billions upon billions of chimps and billions upon billions upon billions of years to do it in? We're not talking one chimp and one typewriter over one holiday weekend. If anything this goes against an 'intelligent creator', (especially as depicted in various texts). Those texts would have us believe that this creator made everything during a week of effort, but the evidence shows this not to be the case. We did not pop up a day or two after the universe did.

Your analogy is seriously flawed.

Why don't we start by looking at the most basic lifeform possible and work from there? You mention humans, but what about Mycoplasma genitalium? What about something even simpler that isn't even 'alive'.. say.. a self replicator?

Because of this, there are some scientists and mathematicians who are forced to
believe in the existence of God by logic alone.

If logic played any part in it, then these scientists wouldn't be forced into anything other than admitting they did not have an answer.

The probability that these complex groupings of proteins could have happened just by chance is extremely small. It is about 1 chance in 10 to the 4,478,296 power.

"In order to explain all life as we see it today, all we need is one single molecule capable of replication and mutation. Once we have that, Evolution will take over. This can be achieved in a molecule containing sequence of only 32 amino acids. How long will it take to order just 32 molecules out of the Billions of Billions of atoms available over a period of billions of years? Remember that these molecules are attracted to each other and will readily bond together given appropriate conditions." (avg)

The laws of probability will tell you that this universe with all of its ordered complexity, could not have come into being by chance. To have that much order and complexity, the universe had to be designed by an intelligent creator. There is enough coded information in one human chromosome to
fill a small library of books. This had to be designed by an
intelligent creator.
The probability against that happening by chance is very
very high. It's like giving a chimpanzee a typewriter and letting him hit the keys at
random. The probability against his being able to type a small library full of books by hitting keys at random is so high that for all
practical purposes you can consider it impossible.
Because of this, there are some scientists and mathematicians who are forced to
believe in the existence of God by logic alone.
In order for a single cell to live, all of the parts of the cell must be assembled before life starts. This involves 60,000 proteins that are assembled in roughly 100 different combinations. The probability that these complex groupings of proteins could have happened just by chance is extremely small. It is about 1 chance in 10 to the 4,478,296 power. The probability of a living cell being assembled just by chance is so small, that you may as well consider it to be impossible. This means that the probability that the living cell is created by an intelligent creator, that designed it, is extremely large. The probability that God created the living cell is 10 to the 4,478,296 power to 1.
Example: 10 to the 6th power is one million, 10 to the 7th power is 10 million, 10 to the 8th power is 100 million, 10 to the 9th power is a billion; each time the power goes up by one, the number goes up by ten times as much. 10 to the 4,478,296 power, is a tremendously large number.
[The probability of this was calculated by Fred Hoyle, famous astronomer and mathematician.]Where to start on this!!

Take a deck of cards. Any deck of 52 cards.
Shuffle them.
Deal them out face up.
Note the order.

Did you know that there was 8 x 10^62 chance that you would deal them out in that EXACT order.

WOW!!!
Amazing!!

Now shuffle them and deal them again.

Did you know that there was 8 x 10^62 chance that you would deal them out in that EXACT order.

A miracle!!

If you look at the order of the 104 cards you have now dealt out, did you know that there was a chance of 1 in 6.5 x 10^135 of dealing them out in that precise order.

Impossible odds, I hear you say.
I think that's like picking one precise atom out of all the atoms in 10^57 universes.

And yet you did it.
Amazing or what!!
According to Hoyle's utterly flawed logic, every time you deal a pack of cards you are defying the laws of probability.


The funny thing about probability is that it really can be used to confuse people who don't fully understand what they're being told. :rolleyes:

One could say that belief is just a gamble. In the end, whoever is right gets to stand over the broken corpse of whoever was wrong and say "told you." That tends to make people feel awfully good, doesn't it?

Chance, of course, has very little to do with the evolution of complexity in the universe or individual organisms. First, the universe is the most simple structure known. It is 99.99% hydrogen, most of it in a completly random state known as neutral gas or plasma. It forms mostly amorphous blobs that from time to time collapse under gravity to form simple spheres that eventually burn themselves out. That is the fundamental description of the universe.

More complex things like bacteria are driven by natural selection which is a very non-random engine. Chance only supplies the opportunities for natural selection to take advantage of.

Creationists love to abuse the role of chance in the evolution of complexity. I hate them. Grrrrrr....