South and Central America!

The USA does not battle South American states on the headlines of the news. The least amount of trouble comes from our continental neighbor. You'll look at recent history and see the influence the US has had over these areas and the answer becomes quite clear. Do you want peace in the world? As long as the news doesn't report violence, you won't be worrying over it. Let the US rampage across Asia and you'll see the problems that have plagued areas for thousands of years disappear, either to be simply covered up or squashed by a new rule. Let the US have it's way with the world. The year 2003 is not a special year in history, it is not the time for multilateral love and peace throughout the world. Go with the flow and let history make itself. The bureaucracy that has led us to this point can't be undone in a short time. The world is still in the wake of the Cold War and will be for a long time, so don't worry about the US extending it's democracy towards the former USSR, because during the Cold War it was unable to get as close as it can now. The same outdated mindsets of the politians are used for a fragile time after an arms race.

Let the world take example from Central and South America and let the US have it's way.

After the goal of pollunating world cultures with neodemocracy, the US will be without a common goal to unite it's people. And resistance and reform will come from within the US because there will be no pressure to stay patriotic and support your government. People can understand economics of their own country but foreign policy to a family-oriented/working person is no where close to their priorities in life. Managing the stock market and economy is simple when compared to executing wars.

There's a need for a reform in the US government because the secrets, lies, policies, and laws that are built atop close to 50 years of psychological warfare. But reform doesn't come from politicians. It can only come from the people because politicians will be content with their life as long as they make the laws while the people are a lesser "slave" to politicians. Anyone think differently of that relationship, between lawmaker and citizen?

Did anyone say life is supposed to be without bloodshed and a continual fight? People living under democracy are winners now, but when democracy is finally settled as the world-held government, there'll be no winners. And another fight for reform will began, maybe coming from the ashes of Socialism and Marxism. But God help us, if the reform is headed by an individual and not a group of democratic citizens. Neodemocracy isn't the final solution, it's another step towards a complete and just government-citizen relationship. As much as I denounce what's happening in the headlines of world news, I am optimistic about it's effects on history. I see many people extremely cynical, with sound evidence, but sometimes you people seem like the lunatics, that are always preaching the world is ending next week.

The founders created the country with the best intentions and this just breaks their heart! :mad:

Say Grazzhoppa,

Do you really think America treated south and central America in the 'best' way they could?

What about all these boycot's, all these trade wars,....?

As far as I can see, America has always tried to police the world, as it's selfappointed role in the NEW WOLRD ORDER after WWII.
And as far as I can see is there where Americans interfere with Domestic issues of othere country's, They really make a Mess.

Last examples: Afganistan (not just yet turning frenzy and anarchaic) Iraq, just wait until they find out who's sucking their oil-wells dry, and where the profits go to (then you'll see frenzy)


You really need to bring more convincing and compelling arguments, (I'm not even thinking of proof or evidence).

Let have America have it's way with the world??!!!??!!??

Why not the Chineze? They can exercize control over a country with a population of more then 1.8 billion people,...AND keep it stable,...

They too can arrange every single profit so that it serves THEIR needs,...think about it.

Why should the Iraqi people go along with America any more?? What have America done for them, except cause them harm and give them ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in return! Iraq should keep their favoured weapon(s) as they have done, and just go for it alone because they get no help from anyone else!

Sefter, is there anything you want to say?:bugeye:

Yeah I just have.

Originally posted by Fukushi
Say Grazzhoppa,

Do you really think America treated south and central America in the 'best' way they could?
Nope, sorry if that came across in what I said. The US treats South and Central America like crap but the US also had kept very involved in their governments, the US basically controlled the governments. Sort of what they are intitially doing with Afghanistan and Iraq. I wasn't thinking of saving a few Iraqis or Panamanians the suffering that the US has brought into their lives. And I hope I don't come off as prophesying the future of the world....but there are no wars that upset the balance of the world relationships between countries in South/Central America. And why is that? It's because the US has had a huge influence in these countries.

As far as I can see, America has always tried to police the world, as it's selfappointed role in the NEW WOLRD ORDER after WWII.
And as far as I can see is there where Americans interfere with Domestic issues of othere country's, They really make a Mess.
I completely agree with you about the US becoming a selfappointed policeman and trying to create a NWO. But it was not WII that started this. It was the Cold War that created hardline policies and forced politicians in America to carry out their ridiculous policies to the extremes. Why? Because of the propaganda and psychological warfare that the US government enacted on its own people. The government did such a thorough job with propaganda, modern citizens in the US believe US democracy is the last government type the world will need. But there are "intellectuals" that have the luxury of analyzing their government...in other words I'm saying a few people see the problems with US democracy and the rest are too involved in their family/work-oriented lives to care much about it.

And I recognize the US is poking in places and stirring up trouble, but in the long run, a world united under the same government type will be a better one, especially the democracy the US is pushing. NOT because US democracy (neodemocracy sounds like a better way to describe it) is the best government of all, but because it will enable the people of the world to tailor a new government, peacefully instead of through a violent revolution.
Last examples: Afganistan (not just yet turning frenzy and anarchaic) Iraq, just wait until they find out who's sucking their oil-wells dry, and where the profits go to (then you'll see frenzy)
Although, I agree with what you said, I have not seen hard proof of this (yet).
You really need to bring more convincing and compelling arguments, (I'm not even thinking of proof or evidence).
I wasn't trying to create a argument here, I was trying to see what other people thought about it. I'm glad you replyed with criticizism though.
Let have America have it's way with the world??!!!??!!??

Why not the Chineze? They can exercize control over a country with a population of more then 1.8 billion people,...AND keep it stable,...
In the long run, when the US/allies have changed world governments into modern democracies, the world can exit from it's cultural stagnation from the Cold War, and begin a reform of the modern democracy. The Chinese government is content with improving their country and keeping 1.8 billions people happy enough (or restricted enough) so they don't start a revolution. That's the problem with Communism these days. The people in charge of the government create "the people's government" according to their own morals, and sometimes conquest of the world isn't in their agenda. But with US democracy, the people are able to influence their representatives and voice opinions. Unfortunately the government won't listen because of either personal gain (money from businesses...Cheney is a good example here with his involvement in business) or job security (getting relected, having a good image, not seeming hypocritical).

Originally posted by grazzhoppa
South and Central America!

Funny, I would have said Scandinavia and Japan.

...but whatever. Personally I think you have far more freedoms in most of these countries than in others.

Originally posted by Sefter
The founders created the country with the best intentions and this just breaks their heart! :mad:

What part breaks their hearts? I'm interested in your point of view but I can't find a correlation between why I started this thread and your replies. The founding fathers were a bunch of rich white guys, and you prove my points about how Cold War psychological warfare is still influencing people today. Why should you be patriotic and support the document that these rich white guys had drafted?

But in fair game, I'll try to explain why you shouldn't base your beliefs over a upholding a symbol...because the Constitution is a symbol, it represents how you live your life. It's a bunch of paper with words that have been used to create a successful society. But the means of becoming successful were not created through the rules and laws of the Constitution. Well known examples: American Indians and their treatment (land expansion) /slavery (business production) / 19th century imperialism (where South and Central American cultures were crushed for businesses to expand) /descrimination (including many groups from women to Chinese (immigration/slave labor), Japanese (concentration camps of WWII), African Americans).

Those are well known and publicized facts about how the Constitution was absent for many of America's pivotal movements. It's a symbol nowadays that people hold onto for a feeling of unity within the country. I've gotten way off track, but I'd like to know why you said "The founders created the country with the best intentions and this just breaks their heart!"

The lack of any real trouble coming from Central America is illusory to a certain degree. But the reality is that by the time the Reagan Administration was done thrashing people around down there, nobody could afford to give any serious trouble.

The United States does have troops in South America, incidentally, fighting the Coke Wars. (I won't be surprised if evidence arises in twenty years that we're also using those funds to screw the Hugo Chavez administration in some covert way.)

But I agree ... comparatively, we have less problems to worry about in terms of South America.

What about Canada, though? I mean, "Scandanavia and Japan" is fair, but if we're getting down to nations, I nominate Canadians as our "best" neighobors in the sense that aside from the occasional spat between Washington state and BC's Attorneys General about who's buying who's drugs on what side of which border, and, oh, yeah, the occasional "fishing war" .... Um ... er ... well, that's not a big deal. They grow really good marijuana in BC.

They help keep the Seattle market price down. That, on top of everything else, qualifies them for "Best Neighbor". I even forgive Canadians the thing about beer. (Actually, that's a joke, guys. My dad was in town this weekend and he was talking about Big Rock's "Warthog Ale"; I have to admit it's one of my favorites specifically because it goes very well with pizza & dope. I didn't tell my dad the bit about dope.)

At any rate, from my Pacific Northwest American perspective, I get the least amount of trouble from Canada and Iceland.

But I will take my hat off to South America. I'm not a huge coke fan, but when you can make coke good enough to make cokeheads a tolerable social phenomenon, I must applaud. In addition, Chilean wine, Argentinian reggiano, Argentinian leather ... and to boot my dad's South American venture was one of the final blows that cracked him. (The highlight of the trip turned out to be when he landed unintentionally on the front page of the newspaper in Mar del Plata--I think that's where he was--as the local crowd reacted to an Argentinian football victory during the Mar del Plata Pan-Am Games in '95.) A rich cultural history, old-school quality work, a strong and still-developing culinary history, fine drugs, a heritage vital to understanding human social evolution, one of the coolest parties in the world, if not the downright coolest. And they tend to keep their problems to themselves, except for the occasional venture after what I'm told are absolutely useless but highly symbolic islands. It's also a quiet refuge for otherwise-extinct brands of leftism that surface from time to time in national policy crises here and there. Not all of them, of course, are so quiet, but that's a different discussion entirely, I think.

:m:,
Tiassa :cool: