Christian Bjornskov, KYKLOS, Vol. 56, 2003, "The happy few: Cross-Country evidence on Social Capital and Life Satisfaction" claims that top 7 the happiest countries are 5 Scandinavian countries, Switzerland, and the Netherlands. Do you agree?

It depends what they mean by happiness. If we leave alone war and poverty then what do we have to choose from? Where you could eat More, or buy a better house, get better education and job, meet more interesting people ...?

Authors claims that those folks who posses more "social capital" (i.e. friend, family, community...ties) generally feel happier even though they make slightly less $ than folks with smaller "stash" of social capital. Of course, article implies that both happy and not so happy people have satisfied their minimum material/food needs. Stomach comes first, as everybody knows.

Scandinavian countriesTheir suicide rates are among the world's highest. I can't imagine what scale is used to measure "happiness" that can ignore a phenomenon like that.

Of course I know it's the arctic weather that's the cause of all that depression; our state of Alaska has the same problem. Otherwise Scandinavia is indeed rather nice. But that's a really, really, REALLY big "otherwise."

I am very suspicious of a study that could reach this conclusion.

Well, the depressive kill themself, those who survive are the happy folks.

Seriously, most Scandinavians I met were not that happy, and in some scandinavian countries, the suicide rate is the second or third highest in the world.

But hey, their lifes are not that bad, at least if they have a decent job and a family, if they are unemployed and single, sitting somewhere in a remote part of Finland biding their time during the long and dark winters, I suppose that can make you depressive.

After almost 20 years of searching for happiness, I have concluded that Happiness is the product of one's own efforts and perceptions.

Depression can be genetic (well, also triggered, but yes, there is a sadness gene). Cold climate triggers depression? I've never heard of that. Can you give more detail?

Authors claims that those folks who posses more "social capital" (i.e. friend, family, community...ties) generally feel happier even though they make slightly less $ than folks with smaller "stash" of social capital.

then what country would give you more friends, family and social ties? The one you were born in... ;)

This was in one of the major Danish papers quite some time a go, it was a major survey with lots of different topics.

The Scandinavians did come out in the lead in the happy poll and a few... others:), Fins won the happy poll and topped high in the suicide poll, if i remember correctly.

then what country would give you more friends, family and social ties? The one you were born in... ;)

At the same time, an average person born in some other country will have more ties than an average person in your motherland. And he/she will be statistically "happier" than your average countryman (according to the author). I think those social/family/etc. ties are crumbling gradually around the world (rich country or poor, or in the middle). If so (and if nothing will change), one can estimate the year when a curve of “the average happiness” will come in the proximity of zero.

Well, perhaps killing yourself is fun? But hey, without the depressive Scandinavians I would be deprieved of good Black/Death Metal...

But I do not think it is connected with the temperature, rather with the weather...lots of rain, snow and those long and dark winters followed by pretty short summers. (Ok, depends on how far north you live)

Where do the happiest people live?

In the state of denial...

....well maybe not the happiest, but a good many do.

Cold climate triggers depression? I've never heard of that. Can you give more detail?It's just an empirical correlation, I've never seen any more detail than that. I expect that the posts subsequent to yours are right. It's not the cold, or at least not just the cold or perhaps not even primarily the cold. Even people in incontrovertibly subarctic locales like Montana and Minnesota get to feeling pretty bad in the winters because they get snowed in and they're never home during the daylight on workdays. In Alaska people can be isolated in the winter. That breeds depression, not to mention the weeks on end with virtually no daylight bracketing the solstice.

As far as I know, the suicide rate among the Eskimo-Aleuts and their related ethnic groups across northern Siberia is not high. Apparently people have adapted to it successfully when they've had six or more millennia to do it. The Scandinavians are Indo-European people (the ancestors of all the Germanic tribes) who migrated up from nice balmy Anatolia or someplace nearby (except the Finns of course who are descended from Mongols), possibly less than 4,000 years ago. They probably haven't had enough time to adapt to the snow and darkness.

Cold climate triggers depression? I've never heard of that. Can you give more detail?

Yes, it is called Seasonal affective disorder


Reading material (http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/library/DS/00195.html)

At the same time, an average person born in some other country will have more ties than an average person in your motherland. (according to the author).

really? :eek: :eek: :eek:
Why would that be? Do they explain that? Do you have an explanation?
I'd expect people who live in their own country to have more people who share their interestes and beliefs, speak the same language, and don't perceive them as foreigners but as equals.

See, the reason I doubt that whole cold+depression thing is this. I come from Latvia, the fairly northern cold place. How cold? Picture this. You're on the school bus, which has heat in it. You are wearing boots with fur inside. Yet, you are still frozen for some reason! The river that goes through the city is inevitably hard-frozen each winter. The summers are rainy. I moved to NY and it's much, much hotter, to the point where it's unbearable. I'd say I miss my cold rainy Latvia very much. I see how depression creeps in if one is snowed in for a long time. But a milder cold climate is fun! You can play in the snow, you can love walks in the rain. BTW, I've never heard of schools in Latvia being closed due to snow; whatever the amount of snow and rain, we always managed fine.

Also, clinical depression is very wide spread among Americans. Many of my peers in 9th grade were on prozac.

Also, clinical depression is very wide spread among Americans. Many of my peers in 9th grade were on prozac.Prozac is now the most-prescribed medication in the US. A huge segment of the population suffers from depression because of the severe and rapid changes that are happening in our country and in other places that we regarded as safe havens.

Terrorism and a war in Iraq that could bankrupt our economy; offshore outsourcing of jobs and the demise of many key industries such as software; the absence of integrity among our political, academic, business, and religious leaders; the resurgence of medieval ethnic and religious rivalries, Islam as a political power in European nations; the rise of China as an economic powerhouse.

America emerged from the end of the Cold War as the World's Only Superpower. Yet a mere decade and a half later, we now see a total reversal -- a strong possibility that our country will soon become a Former World Power like Persia, Greece, and Turkey. But not as slowly as it happened to them, more like the speed of at which the Third Reich fell.

The Paradigm Shift has us terrified.

Yes, but my 9th grade was in year 1998 (I think), way before teens got to be aware of any terrorist threat. Depression was common and prozac was in fashion way before any threat was recognized by the general public.

Also, if a country scores high in both depression and happiness, could it be that they're simply scoring high in the taking of the survey? Or that these people like extreme words like "depression" and "very happy"?

Mexico.

It's not the cold that causes depression, but the lack of light. As Sarge said, seasonal affective disorder.

By the way, good to see you guys again.

Yes, but my 9th grade was in year 1998 (I think), way before teens got to be aware of any terrorist threat. Depression was common and prozac was in fashion way before any threat was recognized by the general public.Let's see, that would make you about 20 now. By now I would have hoped that you should have come across the concept of "the unconscious" as Jung calls it, or "the subconscious" in the old Freudian model.

Not being "aware" of something or not "recognizing" it sometimes means that it simply hasn't broken through into our conscious mind yet. It can still be bubbling underneath. Those are the worst kinds of fears. We can't talk about it with others, think about it rationally, or make decisions that mitigate the risk. Sure, a lot of Prozac and non-chemical therapy goes to people who can articulate their anxieties. But even more goes to people who don't know what's bothering them.

Terrorism was a threat in 1998. U.S. military personnel and installations -- the most visible targets outside our borders -- had already been attacked by Islamic fundamentalists. Our country was already being called "The Great Satan." An attempt had already been made to blow up the World Trade Center. Two of our own people, not even under the influence of Islam, blew up a federal office building because they hated our government as much as Osama bin Laden does, but for different reasons.

Many people, both Americans and foreigners, hate the unstoppable, unaccountable, hubris-laden monster that the U.S. government has become since WWII. This hatred was quite evident in 1998, and the ever-intrusive TV news shows made sure that even the young were shown all the gruesome details. You kids had a lot of dead weight to carry around during the time of your life when you needed all your energy to cope with a flood of new hormones.

But there were plenty of other causes of depression. AIDS -- my generation fought and won the sexual revolution, our children's generation pushed the pendulum way too far in the other direction (as always happens in this country) and brought down a new plague upon us, and your generation has to be warned to fear sex. That ought to be good for a couple of years of Prozac, whether you're consciously aware of it or just have nightmares and/or the inexplicable epidemic of "performance anxiety" that made the inventor of Viagra rich. Inflation -- it doesn't take a degree in math or economics to understand that if housing prices keep rising like this, families will eventually be crammed into two-room flats like the Japanese. Even your unconscious can do that math. The environment -- global warming, the disappearance of the rain forest, pollution, all of these things had been big news for years. People who didn't talk or think about this stuff were pushing it down into what Jung calls their "shadow," where it festers into something dark and stinky and eventually bursts out through a crack like a geyser -- perhaps a Columbine.

You had plenty to be depressed about in 1998. If you weren't consciously aware of it, that just makes it all the more depressing.

Welcome back, Xenu.

Fraggle Rocker:
Prozac is now the most-prescribed medication in the US. A huge segment of the population suffers from depression because of the severe and rapid changes that are happening in our country and in other places that we regarded as safe havens.

You assume that the high number of Prozac prescriptions is necessarily correlated with high incidence of depression.

I do not share that assumption. Prozac has been very effectively marketed, not just as a way of treating clinical depression but as a general mood stabilizer, even for those not clinically depressed. Several postmodernist social critics, most notably Szatz and Foucault, have noted our increased reliance on psychiatric medicine as a way of solving problems previously considered spiritual or philosophical. This is quite in line with what I observe.

Basically, Americans are not content with any amount of pain. They want it gone, now, and spiritual malaise can be treated away with Prozac.

I'm not wholly disagreeing with you, but with your terms.

Further, climate has much more to do with this than you think. I am American by birth, and yet I have more in common with my geographic region than my country's overall attitude. Canada (climate wise about the same as my home state) feels perfectly natural to me, while I'll feel "culture shock" if I spend much time in a soulthern state like Georgia or Texas.

On climate:

Xenu is correct, it is not the coldness but the lack of sunlight. Among Americans - whom Fraggle Rocker sees as typically depressed - those in cloudy, northern climates are very different tempermentally than those in the soulth and soulthwest.

On the other hand, countries with cloudy climates and little sunlight are often more advanced in terms of technology and social innovation. Climate is obviously not the only factor to happiness.

It's not the cold that causes depression, but the lack of light. As Sarge said, seasonal affective disorder.

I object! Personally I love and adore the dark and when there are holidays/vacation anything I rarely venture outside my home in daylight.
I've put a big ficus tree before my room window so even during the day small light gets pass it.
oh yeah, I also happen to live in Latvia. Much rain and clouds here. :)
I love going through the old city or a forest in rain. It gives me a large energy boost.

I object! Personally I love and adore the dark and when there are holidays/vacation anything I rarely venture outside my home in daylight.
I've put a big ficus tree before my room window so even during the day small light gets pass it.
oh yeah, I also happen to live in Latvia. Much rain and clouds here. :)
I love going through the old city or a forest in rain. It gives me a large energy boost.

Yes but you're accustomed to the darkness, you prefer it. In areas where weather works in opposite end of the spectrum this can affect peoples moods. I, myself, do not like cloudy weather, as it tends to add a tint of depressing grey all around.

Going from 4 months of mostly consistent warm weather and inviting sunshine to depressing cloudy weather for days, if not weeks, on end can be taxing.

Sunshine gives me headaches... at least after eight hours without shade wearing a black bandana...

But I think that it strongly depends on personal preference. Some people go skiing on holiday, others are lying on the beach, some people like sunshine and warmth, others cold and darkness.

Every winter I hear people complaining about the cold and their stupid wintertime depression and so on. But I like walking in the snow at night... people are just different.

I hate sunshine. Snow, rain, clouds, moderate wind make me much more happier.

I do not share that assumption. Prozac has been very effectively marketed, not just as a way of treating clinical depression but as a general mood stabilizer, even for those not clinically depressed. Several postmodernist social critics, most notably Szatz and Foucault, have noted our increased reliance on psychiatric medicine as a way of solving problems previously considered spiritual or philosophical.

There is something called the "Sisi Syndrome" (after the Austrian Queen Elisabeth, better known as Sisi) and the description is: "The patients are depressed and if necessary to be treated with psychopharmaceuticals. They tend to hide their illness by appearing especially active and life-loving."
(Sisi had a lot of misfortune in life, yet she tried to weather all the storms and was always upbeat.)
(Source: Spiegel Special, 4/2003)

Meaning that those who are actively trying to deal with life's problems, the spiritual and the philosophical, and appear very lively and positivistic, are regarded as "hiding their depression".

It seems that psychological health as propagated esp. by the pharmaceutical industry, is about being always moderately happy, and *any* deviation from that is regarded as bad.

Completely forgetting that even though one may be in some psychological turmoil today, one can be well tomorrow, *without* using any pharamceuticals.
It is sad, the way modern humans depreciate their own natural resilience.