You know who I'm talking about. We need intellectual debate here, not flaming, Green and Andrew.

All these n00bies coming and going to mess up sciflora. Be ashamed of yourselves.

Agreed.

You need to blame the moderator who allow anti-muslim HATE on this site.

Why you james allowing those empty-headed idiots to posion this site by their anti-muslim hate ? why when I try to respond you delete my posts ?

Is that the meaning of the western concept for freedom of speech ???

maybe muslim-hatred on the forum is a reflection of the situation in the world. Maybe it is justified, maybe it isn't. As a muslim I would rather work on distancing myself from the actions of certain muslim factions than trying to convince the world that they should be muslim, otherwise we will go to hell.

We don't really want to hear that we are stupid and going to hell. A radical postion invites radical answers. There are two parties to blame here, not just one.

if you want an open discussion you should moderate yourself. Don't blame others, you have your own responisbility for your own actions. If you approach this subject with intelligence and integrity than you will get something similar back.

for instance: Athesits are indeed HOPELESS people.

what do you expect when you start a topic like this Green?

Love? Respect? i don't think so

I don't hate Islam (despite its' violent nature and extremely oppressive rule requiring women to cover), I'm just 100% against it. And at least my flames are worth a %@$#@. All Green has called me is LOSER, oh and he threatened me with hellfire. Real original. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by notPresidentAndrew
And at least my flames are worth a %@$ You probably shouldn't put that to a vote. :(

Originally posted by Green_World
You need to blame the moderator who allow anti-muslim HATE on this site.

Why you james allowing those empty-headed idiots to posion this site by their anti-muslim hate ? why when I try to respond you delete my posts ?

Is that the meaning of the western concept for freedom of speech ???

You stupid n00b, read the terms and conditions. No one but the poster is responsible for any posts or the content in them.

Such n00bies...don't you have a clue? About how Cris/Raithere/James (the high members of this religion forum) aren't dignifying your flames with participation? If they start ignoring your topics, it's a sign that you're flaming.

Some people have no clue at all. Green, if you're going to go on like this, I suggest you leave.

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Do you read, Green? The mods can do whatever the fuck they want with your posts. Nothing you can do about it, except leave sciflora. And no loss at all to us if you leave.

Now, Zero, do you realize why I must flame Green? Damn I have a class soon. I want to stay and debate but I can't.

Originally posted by Zero
You know who I'm talking about. We need intellectual debate here, not flaming, Green and Andrew.

All these n00bies coming and going to mess up sciflora. Be ashamed of yourselves.

I'm notPresident and I'm not Andrew. Actually the name is a play on my last name.

Gotta go to class. Might be there for 4 hours. see you later

I don't hate Islam (despite its' violent nature and extremely oppressive rule requiring women to cover), I'm just 100% against it. And at least my flames are worth a %@$#@. All Green has called me is LOSER, oh and he threatened me with hellfire. Real original.

I agree with notPresidentAndrew.

All these n00bies coming and going to mess up sciflora. Be ashamed of yourselves.

Then ignore it. If the mods cared, they'd close a few threads.

Conflict is a necessary part of life. Green World is just annoying, so put him on your ignore list or just don't respond.

Originally posted by Green_World
You need to blame the moderator who allow anti-muslim HATE on this site.

The moderator would NOT allow anti-muslim HATE on this site.

However anti-Green_World HATE is a different matter :D

Originally posted by Zero
You stupid n00b
Is that a little hypocritical? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Vienna
The moderator would NOT allow anti-muslim HATE on this site.

However anti-Green_World HATE is a different matter :D

:D

Originally posted by notPresidentAndrew
Now, Zero, do you realize why I must flame Green? Damn I have a class soon. I want to stay and debate but I can't.

Why encourage a troll by provoking it? If ignored, flames die within a week.

I'm notPresident and I'm not Andrew. Actually the name is a play on my last name

Do you expect me to type out your name every fucking time I post?

You may refer to me as notPA. I also go by the names notMichaelJackson and King of Wishful Thinking.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by spuriousmonkey
maybe muslim-hatred on the forum is a reflection of the situation in the world. Maybe it is justified, maybe it isn't. As a muslim I would rather work on distancing myself from the actions of certain muslim factions than trying to convince the world that they should be muslim, otherwise we will go to hell.
==========================================

I never supported the actions of muslim fanatics, I condemn their actions strongly.
=================================

We don't really want to hear that we are stupid and going to hell. A radical postion invites radical answers. There are two parties to blame here, not just one.
===============================

I said that only after you provoked me by your idiotic threads.

===================================
if you want an open discussion you should moderate yourself. Don't blame others, you have your own responisbility for your own actions. If you approach this subject with intelligence and integrity than you will get something similar back.

for instance: Athesits are indeed HOPELESS people.

what do you expect when you start a topic like this Green?
======================================

Do you understand the meaning of HYPOCRISY ?

Why you are not blaming others who are defaming Islam on this forum?? cant you see the titles of their threads.?????????

You are hypocrite.

green get OVER yourself

you cant go all presiouse when its islam and atack everything that christans, atheast, hindus, buddests and everyone else belives in

want a heated debate then dont complaine when someone fights back

after reading i dont know HOW many threads that the bible is evil i was GLAD to read how andrew atacked the koran

Originally posted by Green_World

I said that only after you provoked me by your idiotic threads.

[/B]


i'm sorry to inform you that i don't start threads very often and certainly not about something so boring as islam, or christianity for that matter

I do post a lot...


Originally posted by Green_World
Why you are not blaming others who are defaming Islam on this forum?? cant you see the titles of their threads.?????????
[/B]

I would ask you then: Is it entirely unwarranted to defame islam? The other members you may point to are usually well behaved (to a certain degree). Maybe they were provoked? Ignore them if you don't like what they say. That's what they do with me.

I don't really care to be honest. I just saw this thread and one of yours happened to be close to it. I don't know you. You weren't behaving. Hence I picked you out.

we are not schoolchildren here. You don't have to point your finger to the other kid when the teacher scolds you. You are an adult and repsonsible for your own actions.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by spuriousmonkey
[B]i'm sorry to inform you that i don't start threads very often and certainly not about something so boring as islam, or christianity for that matter

we are not schoolchildren here. You don't have to point your finger to the other kid when the teacher scolds you. You are an adult and repsonsible for your own actions.
=======================================

You seems you are so much in love with HYPOCRISY.

Go and check what others worte about Islam without provocation.
I am only responding BACK.

They started it, I am very happy to continue.

you can be the bigger boy and ignore them

Originally posted by spuriousmonkey
you can be the bigger boy and ignore them

=================================

Fine, well said, I shall do that.

I really would like to have genuine debate with someone open-minded who bear no hate to Islam.

I am in other forums as well and everyday I recieve 30-40 E-mails from people who wants to know more about Islam, they ask genuine questions, they dont project hate towards islam.

The idiots here are so filled with hate which is by the way is consuming them.

want a question about islam try this one

i have been searching for the answer to this for AGES
i asked a muslam, put it on a message board and no one answered it

what is the islamic view of homosexuality?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Asguard
[B]want a question about islam try this one

i have been searching for the answer to this for AGES
i asked a muslam, put it on a message board and no one answered it

what is the islamic view of homosexuality?
===================================

Homosexuality is BANNED in Islam, it is grave SIN.

in that case your religion is wrong

god would never make a people who are inherantly evil

i guess i keep searching for the TRUE religion

maybe budaisum or wiccam

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Asguard
[B]in that case your religion is wrong

god would never make a people who are inherantly evil

i guess i keep searching for the TRUE religion

maybe budaisum or wiccam
===============================

God almighty never make people evil by birth,

Homosexuality is not inhireted, it is acquired.

Homosexuality is systematic way of destroying the society and the family, it is disgusting thing.

no actully

its a stable thing in nature that about 5% of the population will be homosexual

in flys it increases with temp

in frogs it increases if you take one sex away

in human females it seems to increase the same way as frogs:p

Originally posted by Green_World
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Asguard
[B]in that case your religion is wrong

god would never make a people who are inherantly evil

i guess i keep searching for the TRUE religion

maybe budaisum or wiccam
===============================

God almighty never make people evil by birth,

Homosexuality is not inhireted, it is acquired.

Homosexuality is systematic way of destroying the society and the family, it is disgusting thing.

News to me, I've seen kids that I knew would become gay, and guess what...they did. It's wiring, not environment you uneducated twit. Otherwise there would be no gay people in small communities. Your intelligence is obviously limited so I would suggest working on that by reading. And not those tract sites you've been visiting.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by williamwbishop
[B]News to me, I've seen kids that I knew would become gay, and guess what...they did. It's wiring, not environment you uneducated twit. Otherwise there would be no gay people in small communities. Your intelligence is obviously limited so I would suggest working on that by reading. And not those tract sites you've been visiting.
=============================

Have you heard about AIDS Mr.Ignorant ??

HOMOSEXUALITY IN THE LIGHT OF ISLAM:

The aim of natural sexuality is procreation. Lawful and natural sexual relations between man and woman has been designed by Allah to preserve the human race here on earth. Homosexuality is negatory of the natural role and aim of sexual activity.

The experts on homosexuality and other forms of sexual deviation advance a series of groundless assumptions in their discussion on the causes of such unnatural sexuality. They attribute it to hereditary taints, genetic causes, environmental influences, animal instincts in man, etc. In certain cases, e.g. ‘transiet homosexuality’ where men are separated from women such as prisons, same sex institutions, etc. they argue that the criminal’s blame will be considered as diminished in view of his circumstances.

Islam does not accept any type of justification for the unnatural sin of homosexuality regardless of any biological, psychological or environmental factors which may influence a man to indulge in this type of grossly unnatural immorality. This should not be interpreted to mean that Islam does not recognize the reality or validity of the existence of the various factors which influence man to commit homosexuality. However, the presence of any destructive influences which lead man towards this unnatural and bestial act of immorality does not constitute a valid excuse for indulgence in acts of deviation and inhumanity. Just as fornication, rape and other criminal acts of immorality cannot be condoned because of biological, psychological, environmental, factors, etc, which may be the causes which occasion the crime, so too, can these factors not be cited in favour of diminished blame for the act of homosexuality. In spite of the existence of the factors (described as causes) of adultery, human culture does not permit man and woman to indulge in this crime notwithstanding the naturalness of heterosexuality. They are required to restrain themselves and behave within the bounds of chastity and morality.

In like manner man is required to exercise restraint and overcome his emotional, biological demands, etc. and manage the disturbances within him. He, as a member of the highest species of Allah's creation, is under moral obligation to control the dictates of his lust - whether such lust directs him towards unnatural or natural avenues - and refrain from smearing his soul and intellect in such loathsome indulgence.

Modern studies and the many consequent theories regarding the crime of homosexuality lend to convey a blurred conception of the Biological disturbances as well as some environmental factors are even tendered as mitigating circumstances to reduce the stigma and the blame from the homosexual. This idea has made homosexuals daring and revengeful of their unnatural crimes. They have come to regard their misdirected lust as morally acceptable. They, as well as the 'experts' who have undertaken research in homosexuality, have deceived themselves into believing in the idea of diminished, blame and moral acceptance, of this unnatural act. As long as man's intelligence is not inflicted with insanity, he is held responsible for his actions and he is Islamically under compulsion to restrain his perverted cravings so that he does not descend into a sub-human level of existence.

Man's gratification of his sexual appetite with another man has a long history of its own. The Qur'an bears testimony t the fact that the people of the prophet Lut (Alayhis salaam), the nephew of Ibriham (Alayhis salaam), sent as a warning to the people of Sodom and Gomorrah, were those who initiated this heinous practice. Before them it was unknown. In this connection the Qur'an mentions:

"We also sent Lut. He said to his people, 'Do you commit indecency such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you? For you practise your lusts on men in preference to women; you are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds."

These Sodomites even indulged in their homosexual orgies publicly. Their wickedness had attained the level where the mere sight of a handsome young man made them so agitated that they pounced upon him as famished people would fall on food. Even honoured guests did not enjoy immunity or any privileged position. They did not hesitate in even resorting to violence in achieving their lustful object.

The Qur'aan has depicted the scene when the angels of punishment Lut (Alayhis salaam) as his guests in the guise of handsome young men. Hadrat Lut (Alayhis salaam) did not recognized them in the first instance. But he knew the shameless habit of his people. He was extremely distressed and he apprehended that his people would certainly demand unnatural and shameful sexual activity. His apprehension was correct. They could not sit silently at the news of such "boys" of excellent beauty. These sodomites recklessly rushed to the home of Lut (Alayhis salaam) to gratify their unnatural desires. Lut (Alayhis salaam) found himself in a difficult situation. He prompted them to legally satisfy their sexual appetite with women even offering his daughter in lawful marriage to the most gentle of them, and not insisting on this unnatural outlet. Then he very effectively appealed to them, in the name of Almighty, that they should abstain from disgracing him by dishonouring his guests.

The Qur'an states:

"And his people came rushing towards him, and they had been long in the habit of practising abominations. He said: "O my people! Here are my daughters: they ore purer for you (if you marry)! Now fear Allah, and cover me not with shame about my guests! Is there not among you a right-handed man?"

But the accursed people inflamed with evil passions turned a deaf ear to all his reasoning with them. They had lost all sense of morality and were blind in their voluptuous sentiments. On this occasion they even taunted him for his frequent protests in the past against their sins. Hadrat Lut (Alayhis salaam) seemed helpless in the situation in which he found himself, - alone against a rabble of people inflamed with lustful passions. He wished he had the strength to suppress them himself or had some powerful support to lean on! But the powerful support was there, though he had not realized it till then. It was the support of the Almighty. His guests were not ordinary men, but Angels who had come to test the people before they inflicted punishment. They now declared themselves and gave him directions to get away before the morning, when the punishment would descend on the doomed cities. Even in Lut's (Alayhis salaam) household was one, i.e. his wife, who detracted from the harmony of the family. She lagged behind and looked back, i.e. one whose mental and moral attitude, in spite of association with the righteous was to hark back to the glitter of wickedness and sin. Finally, the wrath of Almighty descended upon them, their cities were turned upside down and showers of stone rained on them. Regarding this the Qur'aan mentions:

"Then when Our decree came to pass. We turned the cities upside down, and We rained thereon stones of baked clay, piled up."

The punishment of turning upside down given to this people resembles outwardly their shameless deed of homosexuality. The shower of stone was very thick so as to form layers. It is also said that the name of each man was written or engraved on those stones which were the cause of their annihilation. The inversion of cities by way of punishment was the task which was assigned to Jibraaell (Alayhis salaam). Homosexuality is also a form of sexual inversion, hence the type of punishment was most befitting in that it also symbolized their unnatural acts of immorality. Showers of stones (not hail-stones, but real stones) are not a normal occurrence. So too, the punuhment of the inversion of the cities (was quite rightly justified). Thus, unnatural forms of punishment were prescribed by Allah for the unnatural sins of the homosexual community.

The community of Lut (Alayhis salaam) was a prosperous nation materially and they inhabited five cities: Sodom, Gamurah, Udmah, Laboobem and Sughar. The Qur’aan refers collectively to these five cities with the term Mu’tafikaat (the inverted cities). The cities are so designated because of the perverted crimes of sexual inversion of their inhabitants and because they were physically inverted and eliminated by the command of Allah.

Before the people of Sodom, never did this evil even enter the mind of mankind, let alone practicing it. The Umayyad Khalifah "Abdul Malik said that if this episode of the homosexuals was not mentioned in the Qur'an, he would not have conceded the reality of this crime since it was unthinkable that man will descend to such a degenerate level and debase himself in a type of act which is not indulged in by even the overwhelming majority of lowly beasts.'

Nevertheless, even after the community to which prophet Lut (Alayhis salaam) was sent as cautioner, met their catastrophic end, sodomy continued and even sometimes flourished. It is now known that homosexuality existed before the pre-Christian era among the so-called 'civihilised' nations of the world especially the Greeks and Romans. It was not only confined to common masses, but even legendary and prominent figures such as Socrates, Aristotle, Julius Caesar and many others practiced it. (Miftahi)

In thirteenth century France, homosexuality was the great craze of the day and the government of the country had to enact a law that those found of guilty of this unnatural crime will be put to death. And Germany was not far behind in the pursuit of this craze. Before Nazi Germany there was a famous person, Dr Magnus Herschefield, (who had been the president of the society for the Reformation of Sexual behaviour), who launched powerful propaganda in favour of sodomy for six years. Finally ‘democracy’ acceded to this demand and the strictly forbidden became approved. It was decided by majority vote that homosexuality among the males was no longer an offence provided it was indulged in with mutual consent of the parties involved and in case of the object of the unnatural love being a minor, his guardian had to give his consent. In the Orient, Iran has been notorious and Persian poetry amply supports it. Karachi has also been named in this regard. It is said there were three centres there, where eunuchs carried on that unnatural business. Afghanistan (then under Communist influence) has also been mentioned. India, too, is not so clean in her records in this field, although the common people are involved in it to a limited extent. It is the educated and the sophisticated people who take to it as a diversion. The educational institutions, schools, colleges and centres of oriental studies too are not free from this curse.

Islam strictly forbade this detestable deed and prescribed the severed punishment, relenting not in the least in making it a deterrent. The Qur'aan cautions that once people take to homosexuality, they sink to the depths of moral degradation. The admonitory punishment meted out to these transgressors was described in such a moving way that those reciting the Qur'an may learn the harsh consequences of this evil, and may protect themselves from this outrageous crime. To deter the Muslims from evil, the Qur’aan initially declared to those participating in this perversion:

"If two men among you are guilty of indecency, punish them both."

Once Prophet Muhammad (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) expressed his anticipated fear by stating that among the evils that his ummah can take to, he feared sodomy most. In fact, this was a forewarning measure that the ummah may guard against, realizing that the prophet himself had forbidden it. On one occasion Prophet (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) declared:

"Whoever gratifies his sexual urge with another (individual} of his own sex,, Almighty will not so much as look at him."

Undoubtedly, sodomy is one of the most repulsive acts, even observed among beasts. Therefore, the sight of a homosexual will be so disgusting to Allah that it will intensify His anger to heights where He will not even consider glancing at a sodomist. Through this act, man degrades his humanity and announces extermination as his policy. Moreover, it implies wretchedness and misery of the womenfolk and he himself is prone to so many diseases: the basic organs of his body, brain, heart, liver and kidneys become deficiently immune (AIDS), his face lacks the sparkle of health and he looks off-colour and melancholy, with the result that such an incapacitated criminal becomes worthless to women. This wretched outcast deprives himself of the bounty of procreation and the priceless jewel of morality.

You are as ignorant as I thought. How is that possible? Okay, aids...you as well as the fundamentalist christians want it to be a punishment from heaven for fairies. Problem is, it kills heterosexuals as well, women and children. So what did the these transgressors do to deserve such a fate. "Damn those kids, always disobeying the word of god." I had actually thought that you rhetoric was just on the surface, now I'm starting to wonder if the bigotry goes to the bone.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by williamwbishop
[B]You are as ignorant as I thought. How is that possible? Okay, aids...you as well as the fundamentalist christians want it to be a punishment from heaven for fairies. Problem is, it kills heterosexuals as well, women and children. So what did the these transgressors do to deserve such a fate. "Damn those kids, always disobeying the word of god." I had actually thought that you rhetoric was just on the surface, now I'm starting to wonder if the bigotry goes to the bone.
==================================

The first CASE of Aids was discovered in 1981 in HOMOSEXUAL couple.

You did not answer my point about how homosexuality destroy the basic foundation of any soceity: THE NUCELAR FAMILY ?

Originally posted by Green_World
[QUOTE]Originally posted by williamwbishop
[B]You are as ignorant as I thought. How is that possible? Okay, aids...you as well as the fundamentalist christians want it to be a punishment from heaven for fairies. Problem is, it kills heterosexuals as well, women and children. So what did the these transgressors do to deserve such a fate. "Damn those kids, always disobeying the word of god." I had actually thought that you rhetoric was just on the surface, now I'm starting to wonder if the bigotry goes to the bone.
==================================

The first CASE of Aids was discovered in 1981 in HOMOSEXUAL couple.

You did not answer my point about how homosexuality destroy the basic foundation of any soceity: THE NUCELAR FAMILY ?

Aids was already in swing in '81. You probably weren't alive then I guess since you know nothing of it. And homosexuality has nothing to do with the nuclear family. So there are a few unmarried men and women out there. There's a shock. Really, could you at least put a little thought into your posts? I mean, maybe just the tiniest bit. You were given your brain for a reason other than cutting and pasting your worn out belief system to us, who will pay little attention to such childish notions.

<i>The moderator would NOT allow anti-muslim HATE on this site.
However anti-Green_World HATE is a different matter </i>

Actually, this moderator does not approve of HATE of any form on this site. You can say that Islam is flawed if you like. You can say Christianity is based on fantasy. You can say all atheists are blind and stupid. But if you start attacking another individual here on a personal level, that's where you'll start getting moderated. That will also happen if you seek to stir up racist, sexist, homophobic or other bigoted sentiments.

The lines can be blurred, but most people have some idea of when they are crossed. In general, the moderators here usually start with gentle warnings. If they go unheeded, we take more drastic measures.

williamwbishop

you shoul back up stuff like that

like this:

http://www.aegis.com/topics/timeline/default.asp
1926-Some scientists believe HIV spread from monkeys to humans between 1926 - 1946. Recent research indicates HIV most probably first jumped from chimpanzees to humans as early as 1675 and didn't establish itself as an epidemic strain in Africa until 1930



1959-A man died in the Congo in what researchers now say was the first proven AIDS death.


WAY before 81

and just to show you

1978-Gay men in the US and Sweden -- and heterosexuals in Tanzania and Haiti -- begin showing signs of what will later be called AIDS.

Trying to and continuing to shove more of this conversion crap down are throats is wrong! Give up GW no one here is going to be converted to Islam because a someone said so on a science forum! If you want to convert people go to HOPELSSLY-GULABLE-ARE-US forum.

I think we should all be agreed that we are here to argue and have intellectual conversations about beliefs and knowledge... not to try to convert people.

Originally posted by Green_World
God almighty never make people evil by birth,

Homosexuality is not inhireted, it is acquired.

Homosexuality is systematic way of destroying the society and the family, it is disgusting thing.
----------------------------------------------
Have you heard about AIDS Mr.Ignorant ??


Nope Homosexuality is do to erroneous hormone exposure doing fetal development; hence god made them that way!

New evidence shows that aids may have been with people for thousand of years now. Also AIDS now most common in heterosexuals in Africa.

I don't hate Islam I just happen to disagree with it. Maybe you should see that having a open-mind does not me we have to praise everything you say.

Originally posted by Green_World
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Asguard
[B]in that case your religion is wrong

god would never make a people who are inherantly evil

i guess i keep searching for the TRUE religion

maybe budaisum or wiccam
===============================

God almighty never make people evil by birth,

Homosexuality is not inhireted, it is acquired.

Homosexuality is systematic way of destroying the society and the family, it is disgusting thing.

So not only does Islam hate women, it hate men who act like women.

DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS

:D

Asguard


** Do you like to hear how destable homosexuality and other unnatural acts are in the sight of God? Must you have a negative attitude towards those who believe it's Satanic in nature? Do you like to hear these things? If not, why bother?

Green_World



** It's nice to see the Bible and Quran have something mutual

Hey this thread gave me a great Idea!

Petition for a New Sub-Forum link (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16503)